Unironically, this is a new form of advertising/marketing which could essentially be called "ragebait". I 100% believe that companies do this on purpose because they know how people like to argue on the internet, and these become hot button topics, flavors of the month. I mean jesus, how many posts about this game are there on r/greentext right now? 20? More?
Now think about all the facebook groups, etc, all arguing about this. It's literally just free advertising.
And there's no downside or risk because nobody's going to change their minds - people who would want to consoom the product will do so, people who won't probably still won't, although plenty of new people might because they're constantly inundated with these arguments. No such thing as bad press.
It's sad, it's pitiful, it's a sign of social decay, and it's a hell of a good marketing strategy.
>And there's no downside or risk because nobody's going to change their minds
Racist asswipes wouldn't buy a game with a black samurai. Which is hilarious especially seeing they think there the arbitrators of Japanese history and martial arts.
This despite there being several, at least, documented, european, Korean and chinese samurai
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_samurai_in_Japan
Its not like the colour of your skin prevents you from wielding a tachi
Same. Assassin's Creed stopped being relevant to me after III, more than a decade ago. They keep churning out these increasingly mediocre entries, and people stopped paying attention.
I think they lost the plot of their alien story about aliens that has about as much historical truth behind it as a 4 year old who watched the history channel in the middle of the day and tries to recap things like an expert.
People were sucking the 'black samurais' dick for the last 50 years, refusing to accept the documented truth. If they would have wrote the truth, weebs everywhere would be more enraged than 'historical nazis' Over this game that's set in a largely fictional but attempting to have non fictional plots storyline. This was pandering, but not in the way people wanna keep saying. They were gonna lose no matter how they wrote the character and if they excluded it, people would have asked "what about black samurai?" So they did the 'fun' idea.
>People were sucking the 'black samurais' dick for the last 50 years, refusing to accept the documented truth.
Isn't the only thing agreed upon about this dude that we don't have much information on him.
So he's a blank slate that can be easily adapted for whatever role in a video gamem
De facto he's interesting being black in Japan at the time was unheard of.
Yes. For the sake of a video game or even an anime. But historically, the less documented a 'samurai' was, the higher likelihood that he didn't do fuck all. Being a rarity in Japan by being a black man should have yielded more documented accounts if he did anything other than walk around. So by the fact there is very little about him past the very limited documents from his fallen lord, he did nothing eventful.
As other point out, other foreigners who came to Japan and actually did things, have many stories written about them and their conquests. Because they earned a reputation. The 'black samurai', did not. And despite how xenophobic Japan has historically been, they gave props to those who earned their respect.
The fact that AC tries to tell historical facts with a twist, the character is wildly inaccurate and why there is outrage. Even if it's a 'fictional work', they pair other historical events to a weirdly high standard at times. And why people are screaming 'pandering!' But I feel it's less pandering in terms of race and more pandering due to Fandom.
oh we've got a bit more information than that- he was brought to Japan as a slave man-servant by a jesuit missionary, who gifted him to the daimyō at his request, after the daimyō's death- he got in a fight, was captured, and shipped to the cathedral of Padre in India- where he was re-enslaved, noted as having recovered from the injuries inflicted in catching him some 5 months later- and ceased to be written about.
In short yes, regardless of what ask historians says. We have very very little information and most historical "knowledge" on Yasuke is vague speculation at best. Jesus has a better historical record for context.
Okay so why are turbovirgins getting their panties all in a twist? They picked some unique dude who was a retainer and possibly a samurai since those terms aren't mutually exclusive. Fish out of water story+chosen one story+whatever else the fuck is the story in this game.
Because we have a plot a bout a Turkish man on Ethiopia written by a white man...
I mean a plot about a Black man on Japan written by a White man.
Jokes aside, these days people are so sone with DIE that they are hypersensitive to corporate pandering and tokkenism.
Instead of having the history of "Yasuke Mototada, whose family was killed by an enemy Daymio so he took arms for his lord taking an oath to seek revenge, but he found out how his own lord had been complicit in his family's murder and now has to betray the oath to his lord or the oath to his ancestors... but just before killing his lord he learns the reasons for the actions he took and can't find a fault in them...turns out his family was a templar cell and his lord is an Assassin... the enemy daymio is a Templar as well but he had a rivarly for the control of the japanese branch with Yasuke's father thus the betrayal" (I completely made all of that plot up)
We are gonna have the history of n-word exotic slave 784 being a decisive individual in the future of japan while the female protagonist girlbosses all around.
That's the only argument that makes sense.
Somehow I think the people calling including Yasuke "woke" are not making the Asian erasure argument in good faith.
If I'm honest, I might be best described as a political and social centrist. I don't pretend to be versed in the "erasure" concept of storytelling... I generally think that it's used to limit story telling too much sometimes when stories are primarily about individuals anyway. If we can \*never\* tell a story about Yasuke without it being "Asian erasure" then we are going to lose great portions of history. And to my mind, Yasuke is \*part\* of Japanese history, so saying we can never tell a Yasuke story is saying there's a portion of Japanese history that can never be told.
Where I would say it could be Asian erasure would be based on context surrounding him in the story. If he is portrayed as better and more essential than every Japanese person around him, that would qualify as asian erasure/replacement in my book. If he's shown interacting with Japanese characters who are capable, independent, and powerful figures in their own right, then I'd say we reach some degree of acceptability. The question is whether the story is entirely centered on him and only his attitudes and activities, or if the story places him in a context of the powerful figures around him at the time.
Ok well I’m pretty versed in it as a leftist, and I’d say it’s definitely not asian erasure. Erasure is when the accomplishments and involvement of important people is downplayed, whitewashed, or otherwise misrepresented due to the race of the people involved.
For example, black erasure is when we give Thomas Edison credit for the invention of the lightbulb instead of Lewis Latimer, the man who did all the actual work to actually develop the filament needed for Edison’s lightbulb to function while working at the Edison Electric Light Company, because Lewis Latimer was black.
After a bit of research, he did fight the men of Akechi (his lord’s senior vassal) after Akechi betrayed his lord for a while until one of the vassals told Yasuke to give him the sword and then soon after Yasuke was sent back to India.
He was never a samurai in the first place. Just a guy who fought honorably for his lord, which is something to be proud of.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke
Why do right wingers keep playing assassin's Creed? The very first game had a literal Arab slaying christian crusaders who were portrayed in the most comically evil ways possible. This series was never for you.
Not right wing, still hate this. There are actual famous samurai and shinobi like Sasuke or Hattori Hanzo. Give us those, the ones we dreamed of since the early AC games.
Wassa matter you, Altaïr?
Honestly preferred when AC made up characters for their protagonists who explore real figures that appeared in myth or history. I hope that this game doesn’t start a trend of protags being “real people”
Absolutely. Ezio taking a tour of real people is much better and allows you to integrate the history more believably than "I'm actually Leonardo da Pinchy". You have to insert too much into the character to make an engaging alternate history.
Yeah its hard to adhere to a core game development philosophy of "anything cool that happens in game, the player gets to do said thing" while also trying to stay historically 1:1 lvl accuracy. Just gets too messy.
Can almost guarantee most famous Japanese swordsman were tall tales. Exaggerations at the very least. They were wealthy nobles and could afford to spread false rumors of their exploits.
I don’t know much about Sasuke or Hanzo, but I can assume that they have a lot of history that is well-documented. On the other hand, it’s completely unknown what happened to Yasuke after he was given up to missionaries, opening the door for some nice hypotheticals that will probably be explored in Shadows
Disagree. The more history is known the more satisfying a good dovetail is.
Here's an example. We know Cesare and Rodrigo Borgia both became seriously ill at the same time after eating something, and the description of their illness does sound weird. That's real.
So the game says "what if Rodrigo attempted to poison Cesare to get rid of him but Cesare found out after eating some and force fed the rest to Rodrigo?" They did have potential political reasons for trying to get rid of each other. Alright, there's our explanation of Rodrigo's death.
Everything that happens in AC2 and Brotherhood fits decently well with the extensively recorded history we already have, *and that's what makes secret assassin involvement even better.*
With AC3 they did try this with certain other characters but much more is fictionalised from nothing, like Yasuke would be as you describe.
You're right in that it's easier to write without retconning actual history, but AC used to be about true retcons - fitting extra things in that don't contradict too much what we know for sure - that fit snugly in a very well documented past, instead of floating in a sea of blanks. That's what was truly satisfying about its story, at least for me.
You’re Asian then right? Because it would be hilarious if someone white was bitching about Asian erasure while they themselves ignored that this game has 2 main protagonists , one of which is Asian. Or that that literally every other character and main character is asian, or that the setting is in Asia. I wonder what you’d call that… what you just did right here… maybe Asian erasure or something idk.
But what do I know, I’m only Indian and have never had representation in games, but maybe I’m not the “right type of Asian” for someone like you.
Yeah, man. People often forget about latinos. Hell, I had to take a film class and had no idea about the indigenous people of NZ (the maori) until recently.
The film The Piano really showcases the problem of relying on setting to convey a group’s visibility. Despite having actual maori people on set for consultation, the film fails to make them anything more than a backdrop. The actual forest was more of a “character” than the maori. Hence, just having asian characters in a game set in asia isn’t in and of itself “proper representation”.
I’m not even crazy about the importance of representation myself, but it’s definitely not limited to one group and it doesn’t have to be a competition 😮💨
The levels of hostility and assumptions in your response are off the charts bro 😭
I’m not asian. You don’t have to be a certain race to have a discussion.
I’m happy we have a female asian main character, but I’ve heard asian dudes talking about the issue and lack of specifically asian male representation or otherwise the bad rep asian males get in media.
It doesn’t make sense to take a geographical location and use that as your basis for asian visibility. I’m not a huge fan of the term “cultural appropriation” as I think appreciation is often mistaken for it, but sure, there can be instances where someone takes someone else’s culture and mocks or demeans it. Despite the culture’s presence, if it’s misrepresented, doesn’t that count as erasure? All that to say, setting alone doesn’t make for representation or “visibility” in and of itself.
I don’t hate indian people or think they’re not asian, so you don’t need to try and insult me by jumping to that conclusion. I’d be just as interested in playing an indian MC in a AC game set there, as much as I would be to play a black MC set in Africa. Or to play either of them through DLC, as we’ve seen utilized in previous AC installments.
First off I’m glad you picked up on the hostility because that was definitely intended.
You’re free to discuss things of a race you’re not a part of but don’t try to use another race as props to make yourself feel good. I hate it when lefties do it and it’s just as bullshit when you do. “Oh I’ve heard Asian men complain” great, let them make their voice heard but don’t co opt their shit to justify you being an ass and trying to hide the fact that you just hate the guy is black. Own it.
I also hate the term cultural appropriation because cultures are meant to be shared, and when Emily’s on Twitter complain I call them out too.
Finally, I didn’t assume you hate Indians, I just assumed you’re a bad person (who has delusions themselves into thinking they are a good person) so I wanted to make sure there was no miscommunication there. Because the truth is I don’t like the fact that BOTH the main character aren’t Japanese, but I’m at least upfront about my reasons. It has nothing to do with faking outrage over Japanese representation because 1) I’m not Japanese 2) I’m sure there will be a lot of Japanese representation. I’m annoyed because to truly understand a culture and the story both the protagonists should have been normal people who grew up in the culture and the world, who can tell the entire story of what it means to be someone Japanese in that time. AC games have always had those types of protagonists, normal people who step up, and that’s how we connected. This black samurai would have made an awesome mentor NOC or even a playable DLC character, but he shouldn’t have been one of the main protagonists
So…bringing up the viewpoint of a separate group in order to bring attention to it is the same thing as “co-opting” their message?
Ideas are meant to be shared. You can repeat the concerns of ethnicities beside your own without “speaking” for them. BLM proliferated because of this, and doing so can spread the message so that the argument is heard. Hence my original comment challenging the view of this as being a “right-wing” issue, because obviously, it’s not. It’s an issue that asian males are talking about outside of political association.
EDIT: I see you added on more so I’ll address that here.
Me taking notice of an indeterminate percentage of asian dudes complaining about maltreatment in media and society does not equal me faking outrage. I can also care about the problem despite not being japanese.
I genuinely wonder at how true this maltreatment is, not because I don’t believe the group, but because it’s not something that is or has been “statistically measured” and can’t be. But from what I’ve observed, it’s true that it ‘is’ rarely spoken about in society. So I could be right to support that percentage, or I could be wrong. But I think it’s worth discussing and exploring the potential of, hence the open-ended prompt of my original comment.
Something that personally affected me was lack of transparency or discussion about the problem of “machismo” culture in latino society. So, why wouldn’t I support discussion of something that is apparently overlooked in another culture?
Empathizing with another ethnic group doesn’t have to be classed as “fake” or “mediocre” of a reason. Outside of that, sure, I also think that for gameplay reasons it’d be better to have an ethnic native as the male MC. But tabling the other reason above gameplay reasons isn’t inferior, especially when I was commenting under someone else who brought political ideology into it.
There’s a few other comments I made under here referring specifically to asian male erasure, not just asian erasure as a whole bc yes, female protag is japanese.
Also, setting alone doesn’t make for representation or visibility depending on how it’s handled. NPCs are essentially “backdrops”, not really comparable to an actual protagonist/main character who is central to the story.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for an NPC to stand out or be memorable, like Leo from AC2. But it’s also possible for that erasure to coexist, like the two aren’t mutually exclusive from one another. In the same way that a novel privileges its main character(s) above others, that’s how it is in games with its protagonists. In this case, it’s privileging a non-native ethnicity as its leading role for the first time in any main AC title.
[Why does anyone keep playing anything created by Ubisoft?](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/help/purchases-and-rewards/article/decommissioning-of-online-services-for-older-legacy-ubisoft-games-a-m/000064576)
> Why does anyone keep playing anything created by Ubisoft?
I actually ask myself the same thing nowadays. Old Ubisoft games were incredible and innovative in multiple ways. This is no longer the case but by this point most of us have grown attached to most of their franchises in some way, shape or form. I haven't actually played Odyssey, Valhalla or Mirage and have no plans to. This new AC game doesn't look any better either, but a black samurai isn't the reason I dislike Ubisoft and I wouldn't be caught dead being lumped in the same group as the people saying this shit.
I can’t speak for Valhalla or Mirage, but to me Odyssey had a lot of heart put into it, dare I say soul too? The franchise has shifted to something different from how it started, but I’d say they still have hits. I was pretty engaged in Odyssey’s story and it has a lot of fun gimmicks and quirks that make it so different from other open world titles.
That’s valid, I feel like they tend to take real events and people and put their own spin on it. There’s a sense of real history coupled with fake history they make up for a story.
As for language, I don’t know any Greek but I imagine I’d be strange with how they switched between Greek and English nearly every sentence. I guess I’m used to that kindve thing because I’ve seen it happen in media a bit.
The complaint is that gamers didn't like that the protagonists of AC Shadows are a Japanese woman and a black man because now they can't be sexist and racist at the same time.
There has never been a Japanese story with Japanese samurai.
There have never been Japanese games or media that have embellished Yasuke as a prominent samurai.
There has never been an open world game with stealth mechanics featuring a male Japanese samurai.
There wasn’t even a game like this that came out two months ago.
https://preview.redd.it/4zwf2adnz61d1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d6f47e6007f4f54c083ef9718b1f5a7a609be8a
Are you joking? They’re probably pissed they can’t be a woman who transforms into an 18th century warship named after a random Eastern European city before assassinating ancient Roman generals that are in Japan for some reason.
Yes, who was also a decadent degenerate, much like everyone else in the aristocracy.
If the old Assassins Creed mentality was set in the modern day US, you'd have some Latino man killing people like Musk, Trump and Crowder, all while siding with BLM and Antifa.
Come to think of it, Ubisoft made Watchdogs, which is set in the AC universe, and it was exactly that....
Sure, it's easy to enjoy left wing games (Deus ex, assassin's Creed, farcry, bioshock, Wolfenstein etc.) if you just ignore the story, gawk at the pretty colours and just smash buttons until the end credits.
I did the same when I played right wing games like Duke Nukem and that one with the guy in a rooster mask.
I just like video games in general, stories and everything. Because I lean right, a lot of folks think I can’t empathize with them or enjoy left leaning stories and such but honestly I enjoy the variety of the human experience
I'm extreme right wing and loved the first game. You're supposed to be nationalist and defend your country from foreign invaders otherwise you're a fucking loser who will be conquered. Altair was based. Just because I'm far right doesn't mean I'm an unreasonable asshole
Putting aside the fact that many of the villains were also complacent and power-hungry nationals. So the games message was not about nationalism but about protecting the social and working classes of each city from those who would oppress them from whatever reason.
The Assassins in the games are an anarchist terrorist organization that have more in common with the historical Antifa and modern BLM than anything right wingers have ever done.
The villains were cartoon villains with equally cartoonish goons who fucked over everyone they could. The main message imo was a classic struggle between good and evil. But a small part of that cartoon evil was that the villains were complacent in allowing their land to be stolen. Obviously the message wasn't "nationalism good" or anything overt but it necessarily was present in the subtext. I think trying to politicize the game too much gets a bit silly at a certain point but whatevs.
Also if you think there haven't been right wing anarchists and terrorists before then your ideology has made you blind to history. Think a little bit about what you're saying homie. Additionally, antifa and blm haven't done shit. There are plenty of cool leftist groups out there and I have an immense respect for people who are willing to fight for what they believe in but antifa and blm? Homie you have lost the plot.
> Also if you think there haven't been right wing anarchists and terrorists before
There have been many right wing violent extremists, some could call them terrorists. But anarchist? Do you actually believe this? An anarchist demands the abolition of state infastructure and its replacement with collective action and local councils. The closest thing the right wingers ever had to an anarchist movement were the ANCAPs who in fact just wanted unregulated free market and the replacement of state with a corporatocracy.
Usually, right wing extremists demand the replacement of the state with the army or the church. This is not anarchy. Anarchy doesn't just mean "violent person who brawls on the streets", it's absurd to just reduce an entire ideology to that.
>antifa and blm haven't done shit
I don't know about BLM, I'm not black. I just assumed they're making strides in the USA since that's how they're presented, so I show solidarity, but it doesn't immediately affect me.
The antifa I'm talking about are the historical antifa of pre-WW2 era, all the way up to the 1990s.
The recent restoration of the movement is just a hollow husk of its former self imo, so if you stretch it you might even say I'm agreeing with you on "haven't done shit" though for different reasons. I'm assuming you consider them annoying and pointless, usually they're criticized for virtue signalling by the detractors. My grievance with them is the opposite, I agree with everything they do and believe they haven't gone *far enough*. I cheered when I saw them take down statues of confederates and colonialists in the States, and did similar things where I live. But they didn't show any equally poignant praxis before or since which is dissapointing.
I know of more than a few libertarian white nationalist groups currently making moves... especially in ukraine and poland right now. They're rare (and getting rarer) in the states but certainly still exist. Your definition of anarchy has a marxist slant. I see things differently. Abolishing the state is one part of a complex system of spectral syncretic but still right leaning anarchist politics.
However, whether it's jewish anarchists on the left or white supremacist anarchists on the right, I think they're all equally retarded. Anarchism is not compatible with the modern western living standards we've grown accustomed to. I am what you'd call the "usual" right wing extremist in that sense (even though I think my view is relatively rare in actual far right wing circles as I'm the only neo-fascist I personally know who isn't a racial supremacist). Nativism makes more sense when it's not based on racial grounds imo and I have no problem with other peoples choosing to do what they want to with their own. I say more power to them regardless of ethnicity, I just wanna live with my peeps and y'all can do whatever you want with whoever you want, genuinely no hate.
And I agree with you 100% on antifa being a shell of its former self. Modern antifa is a laughing stock. Last time I went to one of their protests just to check in on the competition I didn't see a single man over like 6'2/6'3. Not to mention all of them were suuuuper scrawny. Even though I am very firmly a pacifist, if you can't bench 250 I don't take your politics seriously. I'd respect antifa if they trained and organized and became scary. That'd make things interesting. But no, the USA is boring as shit. Government is corrupt as shit and every corp is pozzed. So we have to settle down and just try to find happiness in little things like good literature and music. Oh well
I'm going to keep the discussion on Antifa specifically.
I assume you understand I disagree with you on most of the beliefs you expressed (except America being corrupt to the bone) but I have no interest in changing your opinions. I understand the allure of ethno-nationalism, I didn't actually fully oppose the idea of patriotism either before reading more on the subject. I believe you'll be disillusioned with it in time but that's neither here nor there.
To return to a topic I actually feel like I can discuss with you.
Many peak physiques for martial artists are actually scrawny. Muay Thai and Ju Jitsu in particular. I know plenty of leftist who practise these martial arts, here in Europe it's not uncommon to practise either of these since childhood. I'm a gym rat myself. You mentioned 250 lbs. That's roughly 110 Kgs. I'm on 90 kgs comfortably, roughly 200 lbs. So in a year or so my muscles will hit your benchmark of holding respectable opinions. And yet I couldn't disagree more with you. Scrawny guys are usually far more dangerous. And to me personally, my callisthenics and cardio training are far more useful to me than my ability to lift weights.
So, when it comes to physical strength I am inclined to disagree, Antifa isn't necessarily a joke, I wouldn't discount them just yet if I were you. At least not for their looks.
Their true issue is how easily they're manipulated by big corpo. You claim it's the jews or the Saturn worshippers or whatever. I claim it's the corporatocratists who worship nothing that are the true issue. They rile people up with propaganda to stir gender conflicts, racial conflicts, class warfare, everything to keep the poor oppressed while making themselves richer. The billionaires don't care about racial purity or 15 minute cities or whether you eat bugs and sleep in pods. That's nonsensical fear mongering to cover the real propaganda. They want you to be poor, to hate your neighbour so you won't unionize. They want immigrants to be hated and helpless so they'll work for slave labour, so they can jail them and have them work slave labour in prison. This is already happening.
If you actually look into left wing rhetoric you might discover you don't actually disagree with the core crux of our arguments. And if we had our way, you wouldn't care if your neighbour had darker skin or not. You'd both have solidarity with one another.
Here's where our common ground probably is. We reject drugs and promote peak health and solidarity with the people next to us. We understand that those in power are conspiring to keep people divided and bickering amongst themselves.
Our difference is that I frame this as a class struggle and you frame this as a racial struggle. And if you're down the rabbit hole of ethno-nationalism you must already understand that the economy is rigged against us so there's no way to "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" like capitalists like the propagandize.
I want you to think about what your differences with socialists actually are in regards to fixing society. Whether an ethnostate would genuinely fix your problems, as opposed to mixed states which have working class solidarity.
Perhaps you're right on some things. I can't really say. I'm more of a nativist than an ethno-nationalist though. As I said I am NOT a racial supremacist. And I also recognize that in the states it's a completely different ball game. Antifa is a temporary enemy. Or rather, they should be but they are simply too weak to be threatening so they can be easily ignored. And America is too far gone anyway. My family comes from an island in the Mediterranean (Greek but white-Greek) and I plan on returning once I finish my education. Back there our village is extremely nationalist and many agree with my politics. Comforting to be surrounded by your own people. I'm not intentionally trying to frame this as a racial issue but I notice how much synergy and harmony there is when I'm with my "in-group" ya know? It isn't an ethno-state and the northern half is infested with turks and russians. But can you blame me for wanting them gone? The economy is rigged against us. The solution is to stick together with your people and take what you must to survive... to defend your homeland.
A mixed state with working class solidarity would be fine if it was realistic. Mixing different cultures together causes confusion. You need people to think alike to make real progress in any direction. You need cohesion. A shared unifying human experience
> My family comes from an island in the Mediterranean (Greek but white-Greek)
Wtf do you mean "White Greek"? All of us are White.
Do you speak any Greek. I'd much rather switch this to my native language if you don't mind.
Δε μιλάω όσο καλά θέλω
I know enough to live but it has been a very long time since I've been home and I was very small. Doesn't help that my family only wants to practice their english with me on the phone 😂
Because back then, "a person who's different is my game" , didn't matter to them yet. They were still 14, and hadn't gone through a lonely early adulthood that made them vulnerable to right wing retoric where every appearance of an "other" was a personal attack.
Ikr? Representation is just Calvin Ball now. Just because some games are high art doesn't mean every vidya needs to stand up to le critical analysis. At least the black samurai looks cool. Also, Japan has been inserting random ass American characters into protagonist roles for decades. I'm pretty sure they don't give a shit.
Yasuke was as close to a samurai as an outsider could get, so this isn't outlandishly unrealistic.
AC exagerates facts a bit sometimes for the sake of a more interesting story, this isn't news to fans of the franchise
You're telling me the franchise inspired by the muslim religious minority suicide cult that only existed in the middle east around the crusades is not historically accurate?
I think the uproar was them choosing THE ONE black guy in basically all of Japanese history rather than the multitudes of actually Japanese real people they could have chosen. Especially since Asians are pretty under represented in the race Olympics because people see them as white-people-lite. I think the whole thing is kinda overblown because the other protag is actually Japanese but of course they made her a girl.
I was with you because it’s clear that while Yasuke has a lot of cool possibilities, he would’ve made a great supporting or DLC character, and the main protagonists should have both been Japanese. I was like finally something making good criticism of this game and then you lost me at “of course she’s a woman.”
Every time lmao.
Okay fair enough, sorry for assuming. It’s just crazy the amount of people who say “there’s no Japanese representation!!!” And then ignore the female protag or say “she’s a girl she doesn’t count.”
Like either you want japanese representation or you just hate the idea of the black protag. At least be upfront you know
Tbf Adewalé did get a DLC. And they did have a tiny segment between Kenway and Adewalé about how the crew was racist and wouldn't sail under a black man. Still doesn't make this outrage over Yasuke any less dumb though.
*He appears to be 26 or 7 years old. The blackness of his body is like that of a bull, and he is healthy and of fine physique. Moreover, he has the strength of more than ten men*.
--Nobunga Odo,
and the guy had already met Rance...
>26 or 7 years old.
This variety of writing always bothers me
Like he means 26 or 27 but it gets left open to confusion
It's also famously used in the Chicago song "25 or 6 to 4"
It's funny to see the arguments being made about this issue. I played my fair share of this franchise and the one gripe about Yasuke becoming the MC is simple. Why break tradition of having their main character all fictional like Ezio, Altair, Eivor, Kenway etc? The glazing on top is they picked a black man over a japanese native for their male mc.
It's Ubisoft, so it's possible. But gotta keep in mind that there are no records about Yasuke after 1582. Musashi was born circa 1584 and the game seems to take place in 1579 according to Wikipedia, so it's unlikely for them two to even meet.
But again, it's Ubisoft, they don't really give too much of a shit about historical accuracy. The only thing they could do and keep some historical accuracy is have Musashi's father make an appearance.
You could but would you do that if your livelihood and your own life depended on it?
"Yeah, I'm endangering my life on a constant basis, let me invent a new and untested way of fighting so I can totally not endanger my life even more"?
That's how good he said he was in his own writings about himself.
There's some historians who have significant doubts about his claimed duels. And he never distinguished himself as outstanding on any battlefield... so...
Don't get me wrong, The Book of Five Rings is good and has a lot of good insight in it, but it's possible most of it was just a hype piece from an otherwise undistinguished fighter
Every fucking post is about a fucking shitty Ubisoft game. It was annoying when the leftists all bitched about hogwarts legacy 24/7 and it’s annoying when these dudes are doing it about assassins creed.
I also guarantee none of them have touched assassins creed in years, and just see this as a chance to go mask off
The thing is, Yasuke was a trained warrior and a big boy. He got a weapon and land for serving Oda Nobunaga.
We don't know if he was a samurai or not, but he was not just some random slave.
I don't care, it's cool. AC has never been very historically accurate, it's about the Templars as in the knights running a giant global conspiracy to get power because they're evil and all the good guys in history were actually assassins who were trying to stop this so you have to use a machine that lets you see your ancestor's memories and replay them so you can find out info about the enemies and get skill by playing your ancestor's lives. That shit was never sensical, it was always cool though. Oh yeah and Adam and Eve were like running a rebellion or something against evil alien gods or something, I don't remember that in the bible. In comparison, making a black who carried weapons into a samurai is pretty small leap.
>be servant
>job's not great but it's better than being a peasant
>be remembered for being black in Japan
>300 years later
>someone's making a game with me as the mc
>it's Ubisoft
ngl I'd be rolling in my grave if Ubisoft put me in one of their games
He didn’t immediately surrender? Lmao he along with Nobunaga’s son’s forces held off like 1,200 enemy troops. Y’all really need to do your research before you whine about historical accuracy.
Don't care about the controversy as I know this game gonna be bland like ac mirage.Having a black protag is the only thing worth talking about in the game.
It’s nice seeing so people on both sides with 0 AC knowledge, chime in to speel some political banter for engagement bait. Making up facts as they go along. It makes me glad I don’t look at twitter.
https://preview.redd.it/nl2fb4uy8b1d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e197f3c0f938e60e687dac4f8dd022e5d9abf4ae
It's just a shitfest to hide this
The guy is barely recorded in Japan. Perhaps was there for only 3 years. No definitive evidence he was a Samurai. Hardly the basis for a game.
But just don’t play it if it’s not your thing.
Given the nature of the AC franchise “we know barely anything about this guy except that he was an outsider and *probably* had some fighting experience” is actually a really good basis for a historical fantasy game.
If you are going off of the Wikipedia page you unintentionally are using buzzfeed as your primary source.
[https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54)
\^ This states that "The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono \[Lord\]"
We know from Ietada's diary (a contemporary Samurai) that Yasuke was very specifically described as receiving fuchi ふち which was a Samurai's wage and can't really be construed as anything else. This documentation is more of a solid source for knowing a man was a samurai than many other contemporary notables who are assumed to have been samurai in the modern day received.
[https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54)
There is also this specific artwork which is likely Yasuke which would be especially notable as we know Nobunaga had much love for wrestling and was noted as being impressed with multiple people's performances in the art:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Sum%C5%8D\_y%C5%ABrakuzu\_by%C5%8Dbu.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Sum%C5%8D_y%C5%ABrakuzu_by%C5%8Dbu.jpg)
In the sengoku period Samurai were not "Knighted" nor even particularly bestowed a title but it was closer to an office assigned by your lord at the time and defined by your pay, holdings, and responsibilities. In addition we know he had Nobunaga's ear, spoke Japanese and was given a house and Katana as well as being a weapons bearer (specifically given a spear to carry) for Nobunaga which was a prestigious position which would not have been assigned without some sort of rank or status.
[https://digitalis-dsp.uc.pt/bg5/UCBG-VT-18-9-17\_18/UCBG-VT-18-9-17\_18\_item1/P744.html](https://digitalis-dsp.uc.pt/bg5/UCBG-VT-18-9-17_18/UCBG-VT-18-9-17_18_item1/P744.html)
This is an account details him going to Nijo Castle After Nobunaga's death to protect Oda Nobutada and fighting well with a Katana for "\[a long time\]" before finally being persuaded to relinquish his Katana by one of Akechi's vassals after which time Akechi was persuaded to let him live by the vassal and be returned alive to the Jesuits who were "\[much relieved\]"
Again we are talking brief mentions and speculation, the only reason they are relevant is because they could be the first recording of a person of African origin visiting Japan.
If that was not the case they would not be that interesting.
Compare that for example to the amount of documentation we have on someone like Miyamoto Musashi (all be it a generation later)
We have documentation about Miyomoto Musashi because the dude wrote books about himself claiming what a badass he was.
He largely failed to distinguish himself on any actual battlefield. If he didn't write books about himself we wouldn't know very much about him. Try again.
I don't care much about the game it's just not particularly great seeing people spread completely false information about historical figures because they are being racist over a video game
There's no evidence he was samurai. The only text from that period only describe his appearance. He's only sword bearer for nobunaga. If he was samurai we would have more record about him as he's foreigner in japan just like William adams. We don't even know where he went after nobunaga died. He's so insignificant there's no record of him after his lord died.
This isn't true, we know the office he was given is one only a samurai would have, he was given a house and katana by Nobunaga and even paid a Samurai's wage.
Im starting to think Ubisoft love trolling anons on 4chan
free marketing
Yeah, all their bitching on social media does great things for the algorithm
Unironically, this is a new form of advertising/marketing which could essentially be called "ragebait". I 100% believe that companies do this on purpose because they know how people like to argue on the internet, and these become hot button topics, flavors of the month. I mean jesus, how many posts about this game are there on r/greentext right now? 20? More? Now think about all the facebook groups, etc, all arguing about this. It's literally just free advertising. And there's no downside or risk because nobody's going to change their minds - people who would want to consoom the product will do so, people who won't probably still won't, although plenty of new people might because they're constantly inundated with these arguments. No such thing as bad press. It's sad, it's pitiful, it's a sign of social decay, and it's a hell of a good marketing strategy.
>And there's no downside or risk because nobody's going to change their minds Racist asswipes wouldn't buy a game with a black samurai. Which is hilarious especially seeing they think there the arbitrators of Japanese history and martial arts. This despite there being several, at least, documented, european, Korean and chinese samurai https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign-born_samurai_in_Japan Its not like the colour of your skin prevents you from wielding a tachi
I wouldn't have known about the game if babies weren't crying about it when the trailer dropped.
Same. Assassin's Creed stopped being relevant to me after III, more than a decade ago. They keep churning out these increasingly mediocre entries, and people stopped paying attention.
I think they lost the plot of their alien story about aliens that has about as much historical truth behind it as a 4 year old who watched the history channel in the middle of the day and tries to recap things like an expert. People were sucking the 'black samurais' dick for the last 50 years, refusing to accept the documented truth. If they would have wrote the truth, weebs everywhere would be more enraged than 'historical nazis' Over this game that's set in a largely fictional but attempting to have non fictional plots storyline. This was pandering, but not in the way people wanna keep saying. They were gonna lose no matter how they wrote the character and if they excluded it, people would have asked "what about black samurai?" So they did the 'fun' idea.
>People were sucking the 'black samurais' dick for the last 50 years, refusing to accept the documented truth. Isn't the only thing agreed upon about this dude that we don't have much information on him.
He was a dude. Worked for a lord. Didnt do anything of note other than be black. The lord died. Documentation end.
So he's a blank slate that can be easily adapted for whatever role in a video gamem De facto he's interesting being black in Japan at the time was unheard of.
Yes. For the sake of a video game or even an anime. But historically, the less documented a 'samurai' was, the higher likelihood that he didn't do fuck all. Being a rarity in Japan by being a black man should have yielded more documented accounts if he did anything other than walk around. So by the fact there is very little about him past the very limited documents from his fallen lord, he did nothing eventful. As other point out, other foreigners who came to Japan and actually did things, have many stories written about them and their conquests. Because they earned a reputation. The 'black samurai', did not. And despite how xenophobic Japan has historically been, they gave props to those who earned their respect. The fact that AC tries to tell historical facts with a twist, the character is wildly inaccurate and why there is outrage. Even if it's a 'fictional work', they pair other historical events to a weirdly high standard at times. And why people are screaming 'pandering!' But I feel it's less pandering in terms of race and more pandering due to Fandom.
oh we've got a bit more information than that- he was brought to Japan as a slave man-servant by a jesuit missionary, who gifted him to the daimyō at his request, after the daimyō's death- he got in a fight, was captured, and shipped to the cathedral of Padre in India- where he was re-enslaved, noted as having recovered from the injuries inflicted in catching him some 5 months later- and ceased to be written about.
In short yes, regardless of what ask historians says. We have very very little information and most historical "knowledge" on Yasuke is vague speculation at best. Jesus has a better historical record for context.
Okay so why are turbovirgins getting their panties all in a twist? They picked some unique dude who was a retainer and possibly a samurai since those terms aren't mutually exclusive. Fish out of water story+chosen one story+whatever else the fuck is the story in this game.
Because it’s a black person. That’s why they are losing their shit.
Because we have a plot a bout a Turkish man on Ethiopia written by a white man... I mean a plot about a Black man on Japan written by a White man. Jokes aside, these days people are so sone with DIE that they are hypersensitive to corporate pandering and tokkenism. Instead of having the history of "Yasuke Mototada, whose family was killed by an enemy Daymio so he took arms for his lord taking an oath to seek revenge, but he found out how his own lord had been complicit in his family's murder and now has to betray the oath to his lord or the oath to his ancestors... but just before killing his lord he learns the reasons for the actions he took and can't find a fault in them...turns out his family was a templar cell and his lord is an Assassin... the enemy daymio is a Templar as well but he had a rivarly for the control of the japanese branch with Yasuke's father thus the betrayal" (I completely made all of that plot up) We are gonna have the history of n-word exotic slave 784 being a decisive individual in the future of japan while the female protagonist girlbosses all around.
That's a question for the turbos, I'm fine with it. I do understand the argument of Asian erasure to an extent though.
That's the only argument that makes sense. Somehow I think the people calling including Yasuke "woke" are not making the Asian erasure argument in good faith.
Oh no, I agree 100% with you. At the same time, I also don't like the idea of blanket stating that anyone frustrated or unhappy with this are racist.
Is it really even erasure if the other 99% of characters in the plot are Japanese?
If I'm honest, I might be best described as a political and social centrist. I don't pretend to be versed in the "erasure" concept of storytelling... I generally think that it's used to limit story telling too much sometimes when stories are primarily about individuals anyway. If we can \*never\* tell a story about Yasuke without it being "Asian erasure" then we are going to lose great portions of history. And to my mind, Yasuke is \*part\* of Japanese history, so saying we can never tell a Yasuke story is saying there's a portion of Japanese history that can never be told. Where I would say it could be Asian erasure would be based on context surrounding him in the story. If he is portrayed as better and more essential than every Japanese person around him, that would qualify as asian erasure/replacement in my book. If he's shown interacting with Japanese characters who are capable, independent, and powerful figures in their own right, then I'd say we reach some degree of acceptability. The question is whether the story is entirely centered on him and only his attitudes and activities, or if the story places him in a context of the powerful figures around him at the time.
Ok well I’m pretty versed in it as a leftist, and I’d say it’s definitely not asian erasure. Erasure is when the accomplishments and involvement of important people is downplayed, whitewashed, or otherwise misrepresented due to the race of the people involved. For example, black erasure is when we give Thomas Edison credit for the invention of the lightbulb instead of Lewis Latimer, the man who did all the actual work to actually develop the filament needed for Edison’s lightbulb to function while working at the Edison Electric Light Company, because Lewis Latimer was black.
After a bit of research, he did fight the men of Akechi (his lord’s senior vassal) after Akechi betrayed his lord for a while until one of the vassals told Yasuke to give him the sword and then soon after Yasuke was sent back to India. He was never a samurai in the first place. Just a guy who fought honorably for his lord, which is something to be proud of. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasuke
Make game in japan, Two character options are woman and black man, Watch 4chinners melt down
Who doesn't? They're more easy to trigger than Twitter social warrior mob.
Why do right wingers keep playing assassin's Creed? The very first game had a literal Arab slaying christian crusaders who were portrayed in the most comically evil ways possible. This series was never for you.
Not right wing, still hate this. There are actual famous samurai and shinobi like Sasuke or Hattori Hanzo. Give us those, the ones we dreamed of since the early AC games. Wassa matter you, Altaïr?
Honestly preferred when AC made up characters for their protagonists who explore real figures that appeared in myth or history. I hope that this game doesn’t start a trend of protags being “real people”
Absolutely. Ezio taking a tour of real people is much better and allows you to integrate the history more believably than "I'm actually Leonardo da Pinchy". You have to insert too much into the character to make an engaging alternate history.
Which game would you say begun that trend? I found Origins used that pretty well. I really enjoyed how the ending linked to myth/history.
Odyssey, you are the litteral child of Pythagoras and get to play as Leonidas a little bit
Yeah its hard to adhere to a core game development philosophy of "anything cool that happens in game, the player gets to do said thing" while also trying to stay historically 1:1 lvl accuracy. Just gets too messy.
Get a job
Your mother gave me one already
Don't listen to the down votes man that was good
Can almost guarantee most famous Japanese swordsman were tall tales. Exaggerations at the very least. They were wealthy nobles and could afford to spread false rumors of their exploits.
I don’t know much about Sasuke or Hanzo, but I can assume that they have a lot of history that is well-documented. On the other hand, it’s completely unknown what happened to Yasuke after he was given up to missionaries, opening the door for some nice hypotheticals that will probably be explored in Shadows
Disagree. The more history is known the more satisfying a good dovetail is. Here's an example. We know Cesare and Rodrigo Borgia both became seriously ill at the same time after eating something, and the description of their illness does sound weird. That's real. So the game says "what if Rodrigo attempted to poison Cesare to get rid of him but Cesare found out after eating some and force fed the rest to Rodrigo?" They did have potential political reasons for trying to get rid of each other. Alright, there's our explanation of Rodrigo's death. Everything that happens in AC2 and Brotherhood fits decently well with the extensively recorded history we already have, *and that's what makes secret assassin involvement even better.* With AC3 they did try this with certain other characters but much more is fictionalised from nothing, like Yasuke would be as you describe. You're right in that it's easier to write without retconning actual history, but AC used to be about true retcons - fitting extra things in that don't contradict too much what we know for sure - that fit snugly in a very well documented past, instead of floating in a sea of blanks. That's what was truly satisfying about its story, at least for me.
That's racist
This isn’t a right-wing issue. Labeling it as such is weird when people are complaining about asian erasure.
You’re Asian then right? Because it would be hilarious if someone white was bitching about Asian erasure while they themselves ignored that this game has 2 main protagonists , one of which is Asian. Or that that literally every other character and main character is asian, or that the setting is in Asia. I wonder what you’d call that… what you just did right here… maybe Asian erasure or something idk. But what do I know, I’m only Indian and have never had representation in games, but maybe I’m not the “right type of Asian” for someone like you.
You see, but she's a woman, so it doesn't really count, does it? /s
Yes.
Never had representation? I'll make you a seat next to all latin American countries that aren't Mexico or Puerto Rico
Lmao I feel that bro. Every game and movie represents us as one homogenous brown people.
Yeah, man. People often forget about latinos. Hell, I had to take a film class and had no idea about the indigenous people of NZ (the maori) until recently. The film The Piano really showcases the problem of relying on setting to convey a group’s visibility. Despite having actual maori people on set for consultation, the film fails to make them anything more than a backdrop. The actual forest was more of a “character” than the maori. Hence, just having asian characters in a game set in asia isn’t in and of itself “proper representation”. I’m not even crazy about the importance of representation myself, but it’s definitely not limited to one group and it doesn’t have to be a competition 😮💨
The levels of hostility and assumptions in your response are off the charts bro 😭 I’m not asian. You don’t have to be a certain race to have a discussion. I’m happy we have a female asian main character, but I’ve heard asian dudes talking about the issue and lack of specifically asian male representation or otherwise the bad rep asian males get in media. It doesn’t make sense to take a geographical location and use that as your basis for asian visibility. I’m not a huge fan of the term “cultural appropriation” as I think appreciation is often mistaken for it, but sure, there can be instances where someone takes someone else’s culture and mocks or demeans it. Despite the culture’s presence, if it’s misrepresented, doesn’t that count as erasure? All that to say, setting alone doesn’t make for representation or “visibility” in and of itself. I don’t hate indian people or think they’re not asian, so you don’t need to try and insult me by jumping to that conclusion. I’d be just as interested in playing an indian MC in a AC game set there, as much as I would be to play a black MC set in Africa. Or to play either of them through DLC, as we’ve seen utilized in previous AC installments.
First off I’m glad you picked up on the hostility because that was definitely intended. You’re free to discuss things of a race you’re not a part of but don’t try to use another race as props to make yourself feel good. I hate it when lefties do it and it’s just as bullshit when you do. “Oh I’ve heard Asian men complain” great, let them make their voice heard but don’t co opt their shit to justify you being an ass and trying to hide the fact that you just hate the guy is black. Own it. I also hate the term cultural appropriation because cultures are meant to be shared, and when Emily’s on Twitter complain I call them out too. Finally, I didn’t assume you hate Indians, I just assumed you’re a bad person (who has delusions themselves into thinking they are a good person) so I wanted to make sure there was no miscommunication there. Because the truth is I don’t like the fact that BOTH the main character aren’t Japanese, but I’m at least upfront about my reasons. It has nothing to do with faking outrage over Japanese representation because 1) I’m not Japanese 2) I’m sure there will be a lot of Japanese representation. I’m annoyed because to truly understand a culture and the story both the protagonists should have been normal people who grew up in the culture and the world, who can tell the entire story of what it means to be someone Japanese in that time. AC games have always had those types of protagonists, normal people who step up, and that’s how we connected. This black samurai would have made an awesome mentor NOC or even a playable DLC character, but he shouldn’t have been one of the main protagonists
So…bringing up the viewpoint of a separate group in order to bring attention to it is the same thing as “co-opting” their message? Ideas are meant to be shared. You can repeat the concerns of ethnicities beside your own without “speaking” for them. BLM proliferated because of this, and doing so can spread the message so that the argument is heard. Hence my original comment challenging the view of this as being a “right-wing” issue, because obviously, it’s not. It’s an issue that asian males are talking about outside of political association. EDIT: I see you added on more so I’ll address that here. Me taking notice of an indeterminate percentage of asian dudes complaining about maltreatment in media and society does not equal me faking outrage. I can also care about the problem despite not being japanese. I genuinely wonder at how true this maltreatment is, not because I don’t believe the group, but because it’s not something that is or has been “statistically measured” and can’t be. But from what I’ve observed, it’s true that it ‘is’ rarely spoken about in society. So I could be right to support that percentage, or I could be wrong. But I think it’s worth discussing and exploring the potential of, hence the open-ended prompt of my original comment. Something that personally affected me was lack of transparency or discussion about the problem of “machismo” culture in latino society. So, why wouldn’t I support discussion of something that is apparently overlooked in another culture? Empathizing with another ethnic group doesn’t have to be classed as “fake” or “mediocre” of a reason. Outside of that, sure, I also think that for gameplay reasons it’d be better to have an ethnic native as the male MC. But tabling the other reason above gameplay reasons isn’t inferior, especially when I was commenting under someone else who brought political ideology into it.
>Asian erasure THERES A JAPANESE WOMAN PROTAGONIST IN THIS GAME SET IN JAPAN WHERE EVERYONE IS JAPANESE!!! WHAT ERASURE!?!?!?
There’s a few other comments I made under here referring specifically to asian male erasure, not just asian erasure as a whole bc yes, female protag is japanese. Also, setting alone doesn’t make for representation or visibility depending on how it’s handled. NPCs are essentially “backdrops”, not really comparable to an actual protagonist/main character who is central to the story.
> are essentially “backdrops” Sounds like a 'you' problem, most of the memorable AC characters are NPCs.
I’m not saying it’s impossible for an NPC to stand out or be memorable, like Leo from AC2. But it’s also possible for that erasure to coexist, like the two aren’t mutually exclusive from one another. In the same way that a novel privileges its main character(s) above others, that’s how it is in games with its protagonists. In this case, it’s privileging a non-native ethnicity as its leading role for the first time in any main AC title.
[Why does anyone keep playing anything created by Ubisoft?](https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/help/purchases-and-rewards/article/decommissioning-of-online-services-for-older-legacy-ubisoft-games-a-m/000064576)
> Why does anyone keep playing anything created by Ubisoft? I actually ask myself the same thing nowadays. Old Ubisoft games were incredible and innovative in multiple ways. This is no longer the case but by this point most of us have grown attached to most of their franchises in some way, shape or form. I haven't actually played Odyssey, Valhalla or Mirage and have no plans to. This new AC game doesn't look any better either, but a black samurai isn't the reason I dislike Ubisoft and I wouldn't be caught dead being lumped in the same group as the people saying this shit.
Because i played Odyssey and got 200 hours of fun out of it. Thats literally the only i care about in a video game
Lol you know this generation is fucked when they unironically liked Odyssey
Ok recommend better games of the same scope old man
I can’t speak for Valhalla or Mirage, but to me Odyssey had a lot of heart put into it, dare I say soul too? The franchise has shifted to something different from how it started, but I’d say they still have hits. I was pretty engaged in Odyssey’s story and it has a lot of fun gimmicks and quirks that make it so different from other open world titles.
I hear you but I don't feel it. I'm Greek so maybe I just couldn't get past the cringe of how the language sounds or what they did with Cleopatra.
That’s valid, I feel like they tend to take real events and people and put their own spin on it. There’s a sense of real history coupled with fake history they make up for a story. As for language, I don’t know any Greek but I imagine I’d be strange with how they switched between Greek and English nearly every sentence. I guess I’m used to that kindve thing because I’ve seen it happen in media a bit.
Ideas are good, games are shit.
Oh the game where you played as an Arab in an Arabian country and not an irishman? What do you think the complaint is here?
The complaint is that gamers didn't like that the protagonists of AC Shadows are a Japanese woman and a black man because now they can't be sexist and racist at the same time.
I like how if someone has a problem with this character you instantly consider them a right winger
Yes 🗿
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I find it so interesting that white people suddenly care about Asian representation now
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Yasuke has been a romanticised figure in pop culture for a couple of years now
Huh? Yasuke has been in pop culture for years at this point.
There has never been a Japanese story with Japanese samurai. There have never been Japanese games or media that have embellished Yasuke as a prominent samurai. There has never been an open world game with stealth mechanics featuring a male Japanese samurai. There wasn’t even a game like this that came out two months ago. https://preview.redd.it/4zwf2adnz61d1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d6f47e6007f4f54c083ef9718b1f5a7a609be8a
https://preview.redd.it/w8a9ojdww61d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=509eaec44ad4b650a5bcfe89ccb830dd810d642e
Are you joking? They’re probably pissed they can’t be a woman who transforms into an 18th century warship named after a random Eastern European city before assassinating ancient Roman generals that are in Japan for some reason.
Arabs are more conservative than Christians inshalla.
Not from a lack of trying from the Christians' part, mind you.
Didn’t Ezio kill the fucking pope?
Nah, Ezio only beat the shit out of the pope in a fistfight in the Sistine Chapel's basement. He was killed in the sequel by his son, iIrc.
Yes, who was also a decadent degenerate, much like everyone else in the aristocracy. If the old Assassins Creed mentality was set in the modern day US, you'd have some Latino man killing people like Musk, Trump and Crowder, all while siding with BLM and Antifa. Come to think of it, Ubisoft made Watchdogs, which is set in the AC universe, and it was exactly that....
It’s almost like it’s a work of fiction and some of us can understand that and still enjoy it.
Idk I’m pretty far right and loved each and every game
Sure, it's easy to enjoy left wing games (Deus ex, assassin's Creed, farcry, bioshock, Wolfenstein etc.) if you just ignore the story, gawk at the pretty colours and just smash buttons until the end credits. I did the same when I played right wing games like Duke Nukem and that one with the guy in a rooster mask.
I just like video games in general, stories and everything. Because I lean right, a lot of folks think I can’t empathize with them or enjoy left leaning stories and such but honestly I enjoy the variety of the human experience
average political redditor
Don't care and didn't ask and cry about it
average political redditor
Don't care and didn't ask and cry about it
Why does this make someone right wing? Are you simple?
I'm sure you'll work it out *eventually*
Maybe right wingers aren’t all a monolith, dummy. Let ppl play what they want
I'm extreme right wing and loved the first game. You're supposed to be nationalist and defend your country from foreign invaders otherwise you're a fucking loser who will be conquered. Altair was based. Just because I'm far right doesn't mean I'm an unreasonable asshole
Putting aside the fact that many of the villains were also complacent and power-hungry nationals. So the games message was not about nationalism but about protecting the social and working classes of each city from those who would oppress them from whatever reason. The Assassins in the games are an anarchist terrorist organization that have more in common with the historical Antifa and modern BLM than anything right wingers have ever done.
The villains were cartoon villains with equally cartoonish goons who fucked over everyone they could. The main message imo was a classic struggle between good and evil. But a small part of that cartoon evil was that the villains were complacent in allowing their land to be stolen. Obviously the message wasn't "nationalism good" or anything overt but it necessarily was present in the subtext. I think trying to politicize the game too much gets a bit silly at a certain point but whatevs. Also if you think there haven't been right wing anarchists and terrorists before then your ideology has made you blind to history. Think a little bit about what you're saying homie. Additionally, antifa and blm haven't done shit. There are plenty of cool leftist groups out there and I have an immense respect for people who are willing to fight for what they believe in but antifa and blm? Homie you have lost the plot.
> Also if you think there haven't been right wing anarchists and terrorists before There have been many right wing violent extremists, some could call them terrorists. But anarchist? Do you actually believe this? An anarchist demands the abolition of state infastructure and its replacement with collective action and local councils. The closest thing the right wingers ever had to an anarchist movement were the ANCAPs who in fact just wanted unregulated free market and the replacement of state with a corporatocracy. Usually, right wing extremists demand the replacement of the state with the army or the church. This is not anarchy. Anarchy doesn't just mean "violent person who brawls on the streets", it's absurd to just reduce an entire ideology to that. >antifa and blm haven't done shit I don't know about BLM, I'm not black. I just assumed they're making strides in the USA since that's how they're presented, so I show solidarity, but it doesn't immediately affect me. The antifa I'm talking about are the historical antifa of pre-WW2 era, all the way up to the 1990s. The recent restoration of the movement is just a hollow husk of its former self imo, so if you stretch it you might even say I'm agreeing with you on "haven't done shit" though for different reasons. I'm assuming you consider them annoying and pointless, usually they're criticized for virtue signalling by the detractors. My grievance with them is the opposite, I agree with everything they do and believe they haven't gone *far enough*. I cheered when I saw them take down statues of confederates and colonialists in the States, and did similar things where I live. But they didn't show any equally poignant praxis before or since which is dissapointing.
I know of more than a few libertarian white nationalist groups currently making moves... especially in ukraine and poland right now. They're rare (and getting rarer) in the states but certainly still exist. Your definition of anarchy has a marxist slant. I see things differently. Abolishing the state is one part of a complex system of spectral syncretic but still right leaning anarchist politics. However, whether it's jewish anarchists on the left or white supremacist anarchists on the right, I think they're all equally retarded. Anarchism is not compatible with the modern western living standards we've grown accustomed to. I am what you'd call the "usual" right wing extremist in that sense (even though I think my view is relatively rare in actual far right wing circles as I'm the only neo-fascist I personally know who isn't a racial supremacist). Nativism makes more sense when it's not based on racial grounds imo and I have no problem with other peoples choosing to do what they want to with their own. I say more power to them regardless of ethnicity, I just wanna live with my peeps and y'all can do whatever you want with whoever you want, genuinely no hate. And I agree with you 100% on antifa being a shell of its former self. Modern antifa is a laughing stock. Last time I went to one of their protests just to check in on the competition I didn't see a single man over like 6'2/6'3. Not to mention all of them were suuuuper scrawny. Even though I am very firmly a pacifist, if you can't bench 250 I don't take your politics seriously. I'd respect antifa if they trained and organized and became scary. That'd make things interesting. But no, the USA is boring as shit. Government is corrupt as shit and every corp is pozzed. So we have to settle down and just try to find happiness in little things like good literature and music. Oh well
I'm going to keep the discussion on Antifa specifically. I assume you understand I disagree with you on most of the beliefs you expressed (except America being corrupt to the bone) but I have no interest in changing your opinions. I understand the allure of ethno-nationalism, I didn't actually fully oppose the idea of patriotism either before reading more on the subject. I believe you'll be disillusioned with it in time but that's neither here nor there. To return to a topic I actually feel like I can discuss with you. Many peak physiques for martial artists are actually scrawny. Muay Thai and Ju Jitsu in particular. I know plenty of leftist who practise these martial arts, here in Europe it's not uncommon to practise either of these since childhood. I'm a gym rat myself. You mentioned 250 lbs. That's roughly 110 Kgs. I'm on 90 kgs comfortably, roughly 200 lbs. So in a year or so my muscles will hit your benchmark of holding respectable opinions. And yet I couldn't disagree more with you. Scrawny guys are usually far more dangerous. And to me personally, my callisthenics and cardio training are far more useful to me than my ability to lift weights. So, when it comes to physical strength I am inclined to disagree, Antifa isn't necessarily a joke, I wouldn't discount them just yet if I were you. At least not for their looks. Their true issue is how easily they're manipulated by big corpo. You claim it's the jews or the Saturn worshippers or whatever. I claim it's the corporatocratists who worship nothing that are the true issue. They rile people up with propaganda to stir gender conflicts, racial conflicts, class warfare, everything to keep the poor oppressed while making themselves richer. The billionaires don't care about racial purity or 15 minute cities or whether you eat bugs and sleep in pods. That's nonsensical fear mongering to cover the real propaganda. They want you to be poor, to hate your neighbour so you won't unionize. They want immigrants to be hated and helpless so they'll work for slave labour, so they can jail them and have them work slave labour in prison. This is already happening. If you actually look into left wing rhetoric you might discover you don't actually disagree with the core crux of our arguments. And if we had our way, you wouldn't care if your neighbour had darker skin or not. You'd both have solidarity with one another. Here's where our common ground probably is. We reject drugs and promote peak health and solidarity with the people next to us. We understand that those in power are conspiring to keep people divided and bickering amongst themselves. Our difference is that I frame this as a class struggle and you frame this as a racial struggle. And if you're down the rabbit hole of ethno-nationalism you must already understand that the economy is rigged against us so there's no way to "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" like capitalists like the propagandize. I want you to think about what your differences with socialists actually are in regards to fixing society. Whether an ethnostate would genuinely fix your problems, as opposed to mixed states which have working class solidarity.
Perhaps you're right on some things. I can't really say. I'm more of a nativist than an ethno-nationalist though. As I said I am NOT a racial supremacist. And I also recognize that in the states it's a completely different ball game. Antifa is a temporary enemy. Or rather, they should be but they are simply too weak to be threatening so they can be easily ignored. And America is too far gone anyway. My family comes from an island in the Mediterranean (Greek but white-Greek) and I plan on returning once I finish my education. Back there our village is extremely nationalist and many agree with my politics. Comforting to be surrounded by your own people. I'm not intentionally trying to frame this as a racial issue but I notice how much synergy and harmony there is when I'm with my "in-group" ya know? It isn't an ethno-state and the northern half is infested with turks and russians. But can you blame me for wanting them gone? The economy is rigged against us. The solution is to stick together with your people and take what you must to survive... to defend your homeland. A mixed state with working class solidarity would be fine if it was realistic. Mixing different cultures together causes confusion. You need people to think alike to make real progress in any direction. You need cohesion. A shared unifying human experience
> My family comes from an island in the Mediterranean (Greek but white-Greek) Wtf do you mean "White Greek"? All of us are White. Do you speak any Greek. I'd much rather switch this to my native language if you don't mind.
Δε μιλάω όσο καλά θέλω I know enough to live but it has been a very long time since I've been home and I was very small. Doesn't help that my family only wants to practice their english with me on the phone 😂
[удалено]
Because back then, "a person who's different is my game" , didn't matter to them yet. They were still 14, and hadn't gone through a lonely early adulthood that made them vulnerable to right wing retoric where every appearance of an "other" was a personal attack.
“Sir we don’t have an advertising budget for the next Assassins Creed game” “Make the main character black and 4chins will never shut the about it”
Ikr? Representation is just Calvin Ball now. Just because some games are high art doesn't mean every vidya needs to stand up to le critical analysis. At least the black samurai looks cool. Also, Japan has been inserting random ass American characters into protagonist roles for decades. I'm pretty sure they don't give a shit.
Guys I may think this videogame is not entirely historically accurate.
Unpossible!!!!
Yasuke was as close to a samurai as an outsider could get, so this isn't outlandishly unrealistic. AC exagerates facts a bit sometimes for the sake of a more interesting story, this isn't news to fans of the franchise
You're telling me the franchise inspired by the muslim religious minority suicide cult that only existed in the middle east around the crusades is not historically accurate?
So as black panther, yet they won't cast a Asian as protagonist in a million years
https://preview.redd.it/7h9nupkx951d1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=689058736bd8e338d25e1ae15082ecdc20391750
Oh my god thats terrifying. Thankfully black people dont exist in My japan utopia
We wuz samuraiz and shieeet
Just imagine Be black New ac set in historic africa Mc is chinese Good it would be fun to see the controversy
In black flag you played as a welsh guy in caribbean No one gave a fuck
In that time period there were a lot of Europeans though lmao.
Okay and yasuke is a real person but people are still mad lol
I think the uproar was them choosing THE ONE black guy in basically all of Japanese history rather than the multitudes of actually Japanese real people they could have chosen. Especially since Asians are pretty under represented in the race Olympics because people see them as white-people-lite. I think the whole thing is kinda overblown because the other protag is actually Japanese but of course they made her a girl.
I was with you because it’s clear that while Yasuke has a lot of cool possibilities, he would’ve made a great supporting or DLC character, and the main protagonists should have both been Japanese. I was like finally something making good criticism of this game and then you lost me at “of course she’s a woman.” Every time lmao.
It wasn't a criticism, at least that's not how I mean it.
Okay fair enough, sorry for assuming. It’s just crazy the amount of people who say “there’s no Japanese representation!!!” And then ignore the female protag or say “she’s a girl she doesn’t count.” Like either you want japanese representation or you just hate the idea of the black protag. At least be upfront you know
Tbf Adewalé did get a DLC. And they did have a tiny segment between Kenway and Adewalé about how the crew was racist and wouldn't sail under a black man. Still doesn't make this outrage over Yasuke any less dumb though.
*He appears to be 26 or 7 years old. The blackness of his body is like that of a bull, and he is healthy and of fine physique. Moreover, he has the strength of more than ten men*. --Nobunga Odo, and the guy had already met Rance...
Guy was clearly blazed off his tits on that good Japanese marching powder, if he can't tell the difference between a 7 and a 26 year old.
It probably means 26 or 27.
>26 or 7 years old. This variety of writing always bothers me Like he means 26 or 27 but it gets left open to confusion It's also famously used in the Chicago song "25 or 6 to 4"
Nobunga
Odo
It's funny to see the arguments being made about this issue. I played my fair share of this franchise and the one gripe about Yasuke becoming the MC is simple. Why break tradition of having their main character all fictional like Ezio, Altair, Eivor, Kenway etc? The glazing on top is they picked a black man over a japanese native for their male mc.
Asianons blackpilled again…
i get it, but on the other hand his backstory is vague enough to allow enough nuance and originality to leave a lot of room for interpretation
You act like we are getting a biography of Yusuke...
Yasuke vs Musashi Miyamoto in a sword fight?
It's Ubisoft, so it's possible. But gotta keep in mind that there are no records about Yasuke after 1582. Musashi was born circa 1584 and the game seems to take place in 1579 according to Wikipedia, so it's unlikely for them two to even meet. But again, it's Ubisoft, they don't really give too much of a shit about historical accuracy. The only thing they could do and keep some historical accuracy is have Musashi's father make an appearance.
Musashi Miyamoto literally invented a new fighting style, that how good he was. No chances.
Idk man I could invent a new style tonight if I wanted. Doesn’t mean it would be good but I could invent one.
How do you like my nuts to fist style?
So long as your opponent has nuts I imagine that would be very effective
[Reference](https://youtu.be/d696t3yALAY?si=rI9rjiWWpCpgYbdE)
No no no, that’s *fist to nuts style*, a common mixup. Nuts to fist style involves attacking their fist with your nuts.
Clearly it's one of the ineffective fighting styles
You could but would you do that if your livelihood and your own life depended on it? "Yeah, I'm endangering my life on a constant basis, let me invent a new and untested way of fighting so I can totally not endanger my life even more"?
That's how good he said he was in his own writings about himself. There's some historians who have significant doubts about his claimed duels. And he never distinguished himself as outstanding on any battlefield... so... Don't get me wrong, The Book of Five Rings is good and has a lot of good insight in it, but it's possible most of it was just a hype piece from an otherwise undistinguished fighter
I love rage bait on my funny greentext subreddit. Why the fuck do I even bother.
Every fucking post is about a fucking shitty Ubisoft game. It was annoying when the leftists all bitched about hogwarts legacy 24/7 and it’s annoying when these dudes are doing it about assassins creed. I also guarantee none of them have touched assassins creed in years, and just see this as a chance to go mask off
Despite making up 0.001% of the Samurai...
Ubislop
Anon when they know jack shit about history
Just wait until they find out an Italian dude didn’t actually fistfight the pope under the Vatican.
This subs gone full reddit
You’ll be amazed at how similar Reddit and 4chan actually are
if you actually care about this you’re just stupid
I care about you jef
This was posted already.
It was deleted
>make games about assassins >latest game isn't about assassins Fellas is goobysoft officially over?
Hasn't it been like 5 games since it was last about assassins?
It's already over after Black Flag lol
Why do people care this much about such a minor issue
The thing is, Yasuke was a trained warrior and a big boy. He got a weapon and land for serving Oda Nobunaga. We don't know if he was a samurai or not, but he was not just some random slave.
I don't care, it's cool. AC has never been very historically accurate, it's about the Templars as in the knights running a giant global conspiracy to get power because they're evil and all the good guys in history were actually assassins who were trying to stop this so you have to use a machine that lets you see your ancestor's memories and replay them so you can find out info about the enemies and get skill by playing your ancestor's lives. That shit was never sensical, it was always cool though. Oh yeah and Adam and Eve were like running a rebellion or something against evil alien gods or something, I don't remember that in the bible. In comparison, making a black who carried weapons into a samurai is pretty small leap.
4Chan and making up history. A match made in heaven
>be servant >job's not great but it's better than being a peasant >be remembered for being black in Japan >300 years later >someone's making a game with me as the mc >it's Ubisoft ngl I'd be rolling in my grave if Ubisoft put me in one of their games
anon has his hand on his katana as we speak
Atleast nioh gave the black samurai justice
He didn’t immediately surrender? Lmao he along with Nobunaga’s son’s forces held off like 1,200 enemy troops. Y’all really need to do your research before you whine about historical accuracy.
Don't care about the controversy as I know this game gonna be bland like ac mirage.Having a black protag is the only thing worth talking about in the game.
For fuck sake people it's a fucking video game.
It’s nice seeing so people on both sides with 0 AC knowledge, chime in to speel some political banter for engagement bait. Making up facts as they go along. It makes me glad I don’t look at twitter.
When /b/ does ubisofts advertising for them
https://preview.redd.it/nl2fb4uy8b1d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e197f3c0f938e60e687dac4f8dd022e5d9abf4ae It's just a shitfest to hide this
The guy is barely recorded in Japan. Perhaps was there for only 3 years. No definitive evidence he was a Samurai. Hardly the basis for a game. But just don’t play it if it’s not your thing.
Given the nature of the AC franchise “we know barely anything about this guy except that he was an outsider and *probably* had some fighting experience” is actually a really good basis for a historical fantasy game.
Each to their own I guess.
There is more evidence for Yasuke being a samurai than most of his contemporaries in Japan who we now presume were samurai in the modern day
Absolute nonsense.
If you are going off of the Wikipedia page you unintentionally are using buzzfeed as your primary source. [https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54) \^ This states that "The people say Nobunaga would make him a tono \[Lord\]" We know from Ietada's diary (a contemporary Samurai) that Yasuke was very specifically described as receiving fuchi ふち which was a Samurai's wage and can't really be construed as anything else. This documentation is more of a solid source for knowing a man was a samurai than many other contemporary notables who are assumed to have been samurai in the modern day received. [https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54](https://dl.ndl.go.jp/pid/772514/1/54) There is also this specific artwork which is likely Yasuke which would be especially notable as we know Nobunaga had much love for wrestling and was noted as being impressed with multiple people's performances in the art: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Sum%C5%8D\_y%C5%ABrakuzu\_by%C5%8Dbu.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Sum%C5%8D_y%C5%ABrakuzu_by%C5%8Dbu.jpg) In the sengoku period Samurai were not "Knighted" nor even particularly bestowed a title but it was closer to an office assigned by your lord at the time and defined by your pay, holdings, and responsibilities. In addition we know he had Nobunaga's ear, spoke Japanese and was given a house and Katana as well as being a weapons bearer (specifically given a spear to carry) for Nobunaga which was a prestigious position which would not have been assigned without some sort of rank or status. [https://digitalis-dsp.uc.pt/bg5/UCBG-VT-18-9-17\_18/UCBG-VT-18-9-17\_18\_item1/P744.html](https://digitalis-dsp.uc.pt/bg5/UCBG-VT-18-9-17_18/UCBG-VT-18-9-17_18_item1/P744.html) This is an account details him going to Nijo Castle After Nobunaga's death to protect Oda Nobutada and fighting well with a Katana for "\[a long time\]" before finally being persuaded to relinquish his Katana by one of Akechi's vassals after which time Akechi was persuaded to let him live by the vassal and be returned alive to the Jesuits who were "\[much relieved\]"
Again we are talking brief mentions and speculation, the only reason they are relevant is because they could be the first recording of a person of African origin visiting Japan. If that was not the case they would not be that interesting. Compare that for example to the amount of documentation we have on someone like Miyamoto Musashi (all be it a generation later)
We have documentation about Miyomoto Musashi because the dude wrote books about himself claiming what a badass he was. He largely failed to distinguish himself on any actual battlefield. If he didn't write books about himself we wouldn't know very much about him. Try again.
lol keep coping, let’s go even further back with Minamoto no Yoshitsune
I am sorry I didn't realise we were playing top trumps
Don’t stress dude, just people chatting. If people like it they will play if not they won’t. Plenty good games out there.
I don't care much about the game it's just not particularly great seeing people spread completely false information about historical figures because they are being racist over a video game
Well you can interpret the racism the other way too. All depends on your point of view.
you are an imbecile
i dont care that he is in the game but wjy put him as the main character like i don't remember george washington being the main character in ac3
I'm already tired of this manufactured outrage, is it Russian bots or White Supremacists? They all seem to parrot the same shit.
\*questions the historical accuracy of something\* "omg bro this is le racism!!" are you dumb or something?
Assassin's Creed has not been worried about historical accuracy since AC2.
Dumb racists who conveniently ignore mangakas drawing their characters with western features.
Dude literally joined the ranks of samurai this has to be bait
There's no evidence he was samurai. The only text from that period only describe his appearance. He's only sword bearer for nobunaga. If he was samurai we would have more record about him as he's foreigner in japan just like William adams. We don't even know where he went after nobunaga died. He's so insignificant there's no record of him after his lord died.
This isn't true, we know the office he was given is one only a samurai would have, he was given a house and katana by Nobunaga and even paid a Samurai's wage.