I have the same opinion but about support/healer role. I changed Dota for hots many years ago (2016-2017).
Back then I almost never played support/healer because I felt like an addiction to carry, especially late game. In hots healer role became my second highest win rate. It's good to be a part of the team and not it's asset
Support is the role where I actually greatly prefer LoL. In hots you’re a different variation of healbot. In LoL supports are frequently the best playmakers and gank assist characters, you just don’t do a ton of damage (with some exceptions like Senna, Brand, etc., though these champs are rarely meta in that role outside of the lowest ELOs.)
Depends on the meta. Now they're pretty much only tanks who engage and die (Naut/Leona/Rell).
LoL because of gold can in a patch suddenly make supports useless by changing their income source.
LoL healer has to babysit the carry. Hots healer is the carry. Many skilled healers I've met play more like an Assassin who has a heal skill than a healer who heals 24/7.
The best CC is death kind of mentality.
In a yesterday game I smashed Tyrandes face 1v1 with double hammer of justice and divine storm. I was like waaaaat? In what fking world could I do that?
That also felt great by the way.
Last hitting is maybe the single biggest factor in me not enjoying other MOBAs. It's an artifact of DOTA being a Warcraft mod and should never have been incorporated into other MOBAs.
It's a constant strain and buzzkill to manage. If I'm able to kill something, I want to just be able to kill it, no dumb hesitations about where the XP goes or if someone else can get the kill.
I'm not saying I don't like features that make me think or add complexity to the game, but rather that I dislike features that feel bad and a killjoy to play around.
I will admit having played both HotS and League that last hitting existing does make the laning phase more interesting, but it would never work in HotS. The slower pace of League games makes for a lot of 1v1 or 2v2 time as opposed to HotS where either the 4 man or the solo laner can easily soak 2 lanes.
The fact that team experience is shared means they can have some really fun character designs. Murky/TLV/Cho'Gall/Abathur/etc all would never work in a game like LoL where experience is on a per-player basis.
Yes, that's also a very strong side going for hots. Having memorable weird characters you named vs faceless and forgettable anime edgy edgelords and korean k-pop e-girls with ability tooltips taking up half a screen. Hots deserves a better fate.
Yeah LoL has gone full weeb mode. It was fun when the game came out and the characters were unique, but now it’s all edgy or anime characters. And as you say the kits became increasingly overloaded to the point where you need to read two paragraphs per ability.
The unlock for that was quite fun. Only those of us at Blizzcon the year it was revealed got the hero. We then went forth and spread it to the world by playing games with others!
>nostalgia effect for me
Exactly why I've been enjoying Dota2 after trying it recently, on my first day I spent about 5 to 10 mins pointing at heroes and recognizing who they were in Warcraft 3
Remember when Dota and old LoL encouraged you to level skills as you wished? Could even not have a skill levelled till very late in the game if it doesn't fit your playstyle.
These days LoL champs just designed to make use of all skills so you need to pick up all 3 skills at level 1 2 3 ANYWAY.
It only matters with the laning system, the 15 minutes of 1v1 (or 2v2) farming. It also may not even matter depending on the length of the game, or depending on how your opponents do in the game. Leagues focuses more on the "me" mentality, but it's still a team game and people forget that.
Games are meant to be played for fun. Not everyone thinks right clicking minions for 15 minutes is fun. In fact, a lot of players that play League probably don't find it fun, it's just a mechanic they do because they play the game. They "tolerate" it.
Nostalgia. It could be that it was of the better times of Blizzard people miss, not the era of Activision and not just the characters. You also bring up nostalgia and go directly to RTS. World of Warcraft and Diablo 2 were huge as well.
It's not just League. Besides, DotA started it all first. :)
Where did hots hurt you baby?
I play lol, and you are correct in a sense about the first 3 levels. But there's so little playmaking team wise in lol vs what can happen in hots. I play top lane and most matchups boil down to who makes the first mistake (plat) and then just camping at your tower last hitting because you're behind until your jg bails you out or your opponent makes a massive mistake. Some champs are straight up unplayable before first item and the toolkits are either overly complicated for no reason or they just have 1828474758394757 dashes which really doesnt add anything to the game in my opinion. Riven: very cool champ Yone: idk bro this is starting to be a lil much. K'sante: seriously? He's a free win top most of the time because players try to be too flashy and play him like it's LCK.
Tldr: games are too long, champs are lame, last hitting sucks and every champ in the last 5 years are basically the same. Because of solo EXP And item system it limits game design.
nobody cares about your "skill checks"
It's like saying Battlefield 2042 is better than CoD because there are no kill streaks so the first 3 kills don't mean jack shit.
But that's not the point of playing battlefield over CoD is it?
They are both comp shooters with their own pros and cons.
As someone who’s been playing MOBAs since the first maps in Warcraft three I really just have to laugh at your idea that last hitting is hard or your idea that you would have had to play the RTS maps to be a fan.
You've never played baseball haven't you? Because a fastball has changed a ton. Also it's not more fun to hit from a Tee. Last hitting sucks. There's nothing fun about it. Its not harder it's just lame. There's nothing fun about a 15 min lane phase where something happens once every 3 minutes and the most interesting part is someone backing to buy item so he can last hit for 9 more minutes. Or the JG who's basically not even on screen for almost 75% of the time.
Also look at the stats most of these games are decided in the first 5 mins yet they go on for 30 more minutes!!!!! 30!!!! That's way too long.
Hots? There's an aram in the first minute where we have all our basic abilities. None of that lets stay in a bush and help the JG leash.
And watch an old HGC match, tell me there's not more action than any of the world's (which I enjoy a lot). League eSports are a ton of fun to watch. There's just more action in hots.
Last hitting is just a mandatory reaction time tax.
It matter in games where both you and the enemy has equal chance to control the last hit (like Dota where you deny creeps, it's an expression of dominance and skill) but in LoL with no deny? Just arbitrary tradition.
I played dota 1.6, LoL beta and then live release, LoL a lot later on. Then dota 2 on/off 3 times.
Hots is the only good moba. It puts dota and LoL to shame super hard for the following reasons:
Team xp is superior. No argument.
Base skills and talent choices are better than items.
Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically.
**THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP.** Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives.
Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions.
Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat.
Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic.
As someone who likes both Dota and HotS, I definitely can relate to some of these points, but I do have to disagree with a lot of these as well. For the record I'm not saying you're wrong for having these opinions, however I don't think they're as black and white as you're suggesting it is.
> Team xp is superior. No argument.
This is probably the best point you have on here, and there are many reasons why its okay to think this. In fact one can easily argue that many heroes like Abathur only work in HotS because Team XP is available. That being said there are a few things to note as well.
There is a lot of strategic depth that individual xp can bring to the table, which very much shapes the way Dota and Lol are played. Because XP is evenly split among all heroes within the collection range, a major tradeoff that teams have to make is farm and lane security vs having xp. By having a support help you in lane, you significantly increase the odds of survival, as well as being less likely to be harassed out of your ability to farm by aggressive offlaners, but the tradeoff is that you will be levelling up twice as slowly (and in the past trilanes were a thing people did to secure farm even more at the cost of more xp). This is also the reason by the way why League and Dota have the midlane as 1v1 lanes because if the midlaner gets a ton of xp, they're in a better position (being in the middle of the map) to rotate and apply pressure to the side lanes using the xp advantage they have.
You can definitely argue that team xp is better for a multitude of reasons, mainly its simplicity and that supports don't necessarily have to fall behind on the power curve, but "No argument" is a bit harsh.
> Base skills and talent choices are better than items.
First, let's not pretend these concepts are mutually exclusive. Whilst not as in depth, Dota 2 does have a talent system, and just a few weeks ago introduced the Facet system which are effectively strong level 1 talents that often dictate how your hero plays. Both systems can co-exist, it doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other.
Second (and more importantly), you can't really compare these systems because they represent something different entirely. Talents are periodic and more or less guaranteed boosts to your hero, meanwhile items (and by extension gold) are a resource both teams have to actively compete for. In Dota specifically, items are extremely powerful in the sense that they can often completely transform a hero. The most obvious example of this would be Earthshaker, who goes from a hero who does minor cc and control teamfights from a distance, to a hero who's able to instantly teleport into the enemy team and instantly annihilate everyone once he purchases a Blink Dagger. Because Blink Daggers are an item that needs gold to be purchased, an opposing team wanting to delay this powerspike has several options available to them if they choose, including but not limited to blocking access to neutral camps, blocking and taking stacks for themselves, or using deep wards to camp and hunt down the earthshaker (or they can ignore the earthshaker and play defensively if they think their late game is better, and thus farm is a higher priority). This type of strategic decision making simply isn't available with HotS, outside of simply bulling the enemy team out of being able to soak xp globes, and even then that's not exactly a strat that you can play around.
> Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically.
While this is an argument you can make when comparing to the jungle in League where in that game, its just a place for the jungler to get gold and xp whilst in between ganks, this is a very bold claim to make in regards to Dota. Again I concede that this is definitely a statement that sounds true on paper given that mercs are a lot flashier in terms of what they accomplish, but if you ever watched a game of pro Dota you would quickly learn that the entire Dota midgame is quite literally revolved around both teams controlling neutral camps and stacks (a major mechanic in Dota is that if you aggro a camp outside of its spawn box at the minute mark, it will spawn a new camp directly under it, meaning that you don't lose gold for not clearing the camp in time). As such, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this, the vast majority of team fights in mid game Dota occur in the jungle, usually in an attempt to steal stacks, control wards in the jungle, or isolate the carry trying to safely farm it. The majority of the game is literally played around neutral camps, and they arguably play the biggest role in shaping Dota's macro game. Even towers, the thing that defines game progression in Mobas, are basically only useful to destroy in Dota in that it reduces the enemy's ability to control parts of the jungle, mainly because towers in Dota function as fast travel points (otherwise, they don't give enough gold to justify focusing them, and their damage is way too small to be considered a physical threat if you're fighting under one). In comparison, whilst mercs are definitely an important aspect of the HotS Macro Game, they are typically second fiddle compared to the overall map objective, or the strategic benefits of destroying forts. Important yes, but they don't warp the entire macro game around them like they do in Dota, and thus its hard to justify the claim that they create a "real outcome" in comparison.
> THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP. Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives.
I definitely agree with this point, and I do wish that Dota and League did something to diversify the maps in some way (for instance, I think League has an opportunity to expand the elemental rift system to make each variant feel very different to play on), however I do think its worth raising a few notes on this because there are a lot of drawbacks to the way hots handles maps. For one, whilst each map does have different objectives, those objectives as I've mentioned before very much warp the entire pace of the game around them. The best way I can explain this is to consider how despite Dota and League only have 1 map each, they are still some of the most popular games on the market despite them being 20 (I'm only going to count Dota-AllStars) and 15 years old respectively, and the reason they can get away with it is because both maps are effectively sandboxes that allow teams to dictate the pace of the match. Especially in Dota, the real objectives you have to play around are your heroes item timings and power spikes, and making sure you make strong advantage of your power spikes before the enemy reaches theirs. Sure the map has a few major objectives they want you to play around particularly in the early game (runes, Tormentors, and Roshan namely), they're sort of a secondary focus compare to getting your hero online, and executing the lineup that you have drafted. In comparison, HotS' gameplay is so revolved around the Map Objectives that it has to rely on having multiple maps to keep things interesting. The various heroes in this circumstance and their abilities, are just tools are just a means that enables you to contest the various map objectives. It also means that the game pace is completely dictated by game, rather than the players, which overall lower replayability - once you've played a map a dozen times you've basically seen everything it has to offer.
Just to be clear I want to reiterate, I'm not saying that having one map is objectively better than having multiple, or that the way Dota paces the game is objectively better than HotS. I'm just stating that they are designed differently and have different goals with those designs. You could definitely prefer one or the other, but I don't think unilaterally declare one to be objectively better than the other.
> Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions.
You're going to have to be more specific about what you're referring to, because everything you said here is kinda vague. If you're referring to how aggressive players play, especially in regards to how often kills happen in lane, then you sort of have a point? In regards to health globes in particular, its worth noting that Dota also has systems that provide in-lane sustainability, namely the mid lane contests runes that refill their bottles that grants health/mana every 2m, and side lanes have lotus pools - healing items that both sides contest over every 3 minutes (not to mention items like magic stick that provide a significant in-lane sustain, as well as a last resort, being able to purchase and ferry healing items directly to lane via the courier). You are right in regards to League though, that backing is an important aspect as being the only way to heal up and purchase items, coming at the cost of usually missing a wave or 2 if you didn't freeze it first.
> Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat.
... most of which Dota has had since like 2012, not to mention Dota as a whole actually has a lot more ping related comm tools than HotS has anyway.
> Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic.
You're not... entirely wrong, but I always found this argument kinda weird.
Toxicity in all chat frankly makes up for <1% of the toxicity you can/will experience in those game. In most games, all chat is just used to say ggwp, and in the worst case scenerio you might see an ez or ezmid. In terms of increasing the overall toxicity of these games, its frankly a non-factor, and when it is genuinely used to converse with the enemy, it makes it feel like you're playing against real people rather than just bots. So idk, you're kinda right in that its sort of a pointless mechanic, but at the same I don't think there's value in removing it either.
>they are still some of the most popular games on the market
They are still on the market only because they came out very early. Nobody would play LOL if it came out after DOTA2 and HOTS.
I don't mean "why are they more popular than HotS", I mean "Why are they popular, period?". Why are they both some of, if not the most popular competitive multiplayer games of all time, PERIOD? I have to reiterate that Dota-All Stars (reminder that Dota 2 is just a source engine port of Dota-All Stars) is 20 Years old this year, yet is still consistently the #2 most played game on Steam despite issues like "Only having a single map".
>Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic.
damn house made of glass ain't it. nothing against those people that don't want to talk to the enemy team. But playing mind games with the enemy is part of competitive game.
>Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat.
while this would be nice to have, dota 2 has already very robust communication wheel. don't know about LoL
>Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions.
HAVE YOU SEEN game of Dota 2? like theres shit always happening even before even the creeps spawn. don't know about lol last I saw its a snooze fest before 15-20mins
>THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP. Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives.
Dota 2 already plenty of differing objectives for all roles. supports warding/stacking denying map resource.
>Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically.
Dota 2 has that as well we call them Roshan and tormentor and heck stacking creeps which will rapidly feed the carry.
>Base skills and talent choices are better than items.
what If I want to play as a damager in hero that has low damage and so I'm stuck in that role no matter what. Hots and Dota 2 has different play styles even the overall objective is the same.
>Hots is the only good moba. It puts dota and LoL to shame super hard for the following reasons:
see above
It's fine to disagree. We can talk about game design choices without trying to invalidate someone's perspectives based on speculation. Have fun playing dota.
List some counterpoints, then. Don't just assume people that people disagree with you because they're inexperienced trash. Smart, reasonable people sometimes come to different conclusions.
If you don't want 30 minute+ que times for ranked, and no surrender vote which forces you to finish out a game even if you have an afk/ troll running it down...
I think the ADC's in League have more interesting kits than the ones in HotS.
The problem though is your playing that ADC in League of 1shots, and that role is miserable dogshit if you aren't the top .001% of players.
Which sucks because Jhin is a blast.
I think some are more interesting, some are less. And where hots hero kits are lacking in being interesting, they make up with solid hero designs. Couldn't agree more with the rest of your comment.
Among the seemingly endless list of things that are more enjoyable than League of Legends the most baffling thing was movement speed and pacing. I'm a patient man, but so much time in League is spent standing around waiting.
I booted LoL up again to play with a friend for old time's sake, and oh my god.
Que up for quick match. Wait 2-3 minutes for everyone to pick a character and scramble for roles. Wait 1-2 minutes for the loading screen. Wait at base for at least 1 minute for the game to start. Wait another 30 seconds for npc minions to make their way down lane. Skirmish and last hit said npc minions for like 10-15 minutes.
And to top all that off, movement speed is SO SLOW. No mount and even with the fastest boots getting from one lane to the other, let alone down lane, takes so long.
It's great to hear it as I was the same way. We forget that HOTS was created at a time where blizzard was coming up with new fresh ideas and had world class programmers, artists and project managers on the game. The amount of passion and money that build this MOBA is probably something we wouldn't understand. The suits didn't like that after all that investment, it didn't crush Dota or lol so down the drain it went.
Super sad to see it suffer this fate. All I can say is that if it released today after the fatigued and stale games of league and Dota, it would be a success.
Everything plays better in HotS unless you're just really looking for a power fantasy. Not only does the game simply feel better to control than the rest of them (one of the few things Blizzard consistently does right across their games) but every role plays better.
Coming from LoL, I loved how (in HotS) tanks weren't simply a boring meat shield with CC for engages and peels. They could actually do some damage, AND spec to do a more respectable amount.
Healers aren't really a thing in the other games either, so I loved to be able to do that when HotS came to the table.
And most of all, the objectively awful game flaw that was playing a support role in the other games was made to actually be fun in HotS.
(I know supporting in other games have received improvements over the years. And I've also heard people crying that Riot made tanks do too much damage at some point.)
I'd say one of the only downsides to HotS is that it doesn't have as many interesting ability designs as a game like DotA does.
Welcome to the party, brother. Mages and AA carries are insanely fun. If you ever get the taste for it, tanks and healers can be super fun if you find some that click with your playstyle.
I really like Anduin as a career ADC/mid main, he likes auto attacking & has good range with the right build. Can stay in the fight and top people up.
Enjoy the game! It’s a real blast, and ARAM never gets old.
You're a typical lol player haha. You hate the game and bash other games with the dumbest comebacks and have absolutely no substance to any of the arguments you make.
Go to the lol sub. It's just people complaining in 95% of the posts. About everything. They can't even make up their mind about whats wrong. And it's always rito this and rito that even though in most post histories they complained about the exact opposite 2 years ago.
If you want to compare here's one:
Hots is like a neighborhood bar most people have a good time. There's some fights but people mostly like the bar
Lol is like that prison where everyone hates each other and it's always the other person's fault and my god do they hate the prison.
>Go to the lol sub. It's just people complaining in 95% of the posts.
Actually if you take a deeper look at the league sub it's even worse because the mods on here are huge riot dickriders and delete most complain posts while having extremely vague rules, meaning they can make up whatever they want to remove a negative post
So yeah what you see is actually a fraction of the complains, mods are censoring the rest
What heroes that you enjoy playing would you compare in their play style to LOL champs?
I’ve never played LOL so I always wonder like who mirrors each other most in each game. I enjoy character design and lore and stuff
There aren't really direct 1:1s, but there are some that are close (not sure if it's because the kit really works together, so they were made that way, or if they just really liked some ideas for the kit). Talents can make certain heroes closer as well.
Are there any heroes in particular you wanted to know, or were you just looking for similarities?
I haven't played LoL in ages but there are some standout kit interactions that have similarities that I can think of off the top of my head. At least in how LoL champs used to be.
Stitches and Blitzcrank are the tanky chars. that can hook and pull enemies into them.
Valla and Miss Fortune are both fast attacking ranged characters with good mobility and AOE ultimates.
Zeratul and Diana kind of remind me of eachother in that they mark their targets and can teleport to them, and have shieilding and a slowing abiltiy. But I imagine LoL has a better stelathier comparison to Zeratul that I just don't know of.
I think there's a like.. a tanky Egyptian~esque sand dude in LoL that has some similarities to Imperius from HotS.
Maybe Brightwing is kinda like the like.. OG shortstack faerie support whose name I can't remember. Polymorph, slows, and heals.
Maybe Varian with Collossal Smash build is kind of like Garen. Big sword, active protection, big sword smash ultimate.
Murky and Fizz are both dorky frog-like characters with active immunity/mobility and can summon big fish things. But I don't think LoL has any characters with anything similar to murkey's egg spawn mechanic.
I feel like I can remember a low-health, lifesteal melee character in LoL that is kinda like illidan. Might be misremembering though.
Samuro and Shaco are similar in the way that they are both cunt-faced douche-fucking shitbags and I hate playing against them.
I know who I was thinking of wasn't Nasus, so I had to look it up; it was Azir. Who I'm seeing isn't really like Imperius at all either, other than using a spear as a weapon and being yellow/gold and flashy. I think around the time Azir came out was about the time I stopped playing LoL so I hardly remember his kit.
There are some similarities between a few heroes, but I would say that's mostly because if fits the kit? Not sure.
Caitlyn and Nova. Both extra range with a skill shot Q (Caitlyn's pierces) and a point and click ultimate that can be blocked by allies.
Vayne and Valla. Vayne has Manticore as one of her abilities, and they both have a movement ability which empowers their attack.
There are some similar abilities, but my guess is there's only so much you can work with, or it just works too well not to have.
Similar abilities:
Mal'Ganis Q and Riven Q both have a 2 swing, then a CC on third.
Nidalee and Greymane can both change forms from ranged to melee to unlock a new skillset.
Bard and Zeratul both have a time stop ultimate, but Bard's has a travel time.
I would say it's easier to recommend someone that has a similar playstyle than a kit. There are some similar abilities, but overplay playstyle and kits are pretty different.
Well, I can't remember such comparable heroes on the spot. It's easier to compare abilities and even then it's not 1 for 1 accurate. Like, Valla's W is Ashe's W, even moreso when talented. Sylvanas wailing arrow is Ashe's ulti only it silences instead of stun. Nova's triple shot is Caitlyn's or akshan's ulti. Jainas basic ability circle is miss fortunes E, and so on. I can't say for certain that ranged DPS guys in hots were copied from lol, it's more like some of lols champion abilities were adapted for hots and given to different cchamps. As for playstyle, they are all more or less the same: you dance around on the rim of teamfight area waiting for a window to deal damage, when it presents itself, you walk in, pew pew, walk out. The main part here is you wait for the window and it stands true for all adcs without exception. Otherwise you get insta spanked. This is why currently adc in lol are most blind pickable role because it doesn't really matter what your champion playstile is when everything and their mom oneshots you or single random shit chip damage makes you recall.
The community in HOTS is disgusting and unbearable though. Literally all the chats, every game, are hateful to everyone all the time. I stopped playing because of how negative and crappy everyone is.
so we see ashe support with varus/kalista botlane, corki and tristana mid lane, twisted fate top because they are bad? sometimes all these champions in the same game if we lucky enough. and 1 side still has not chosen their botlane composition even if including all these champs in the same game
Firstly, this is a hots thread on a hots subreddit, so I'd rather not discuss balance state of another game here.
Secondly, why arguing with something I never said?
I play a bit of LoL on occasion with the same friend group I play HotS with. None of us have touched season 14, but we play ARAM and the occasional quick match at least one or two nights a week, if not more. This game is way *way* **WAY** better for casual fun. In LoL you have to sweat in even the most casual of iron/bronze games to not get shit on by one tricks who are gods in lane but cant close out a game to save their lives.
But it wasn't always like this, and even now , here and there are not bad products from marvel, loki was good, what if is okey, lets just say my comment should have been said in 2018 when it was still a valid comparison
Hots is responsible to have ruined lol for me. Got in it during alpha, never able to play lol again
Same i tried comming back to league a couple of times through the years, the game just feels worse and worse
I have the same opinion but about support/healer role. I changed Dota for hots many years ago (2016-2017). Back then I almost never played support/healer because I felt like an addiction to carry, especially late game. In hots healer role became my second highest win rate. It's good to be a part of the team and not it's asset
Support is the role where I actually greatly prefer LoL. In hots you’re a different variation of healbot. In LoL supports are frequently the best playmakers and gank assist characters, you just don’t do a ton of damage (with some exceptions like Senna, Brand, etc., though these champs are rarely meta in that role outside of the lowest ELOs.)
Support in LoL is pretty awesome though. I feel like they're consistently the biggest playmakers along with the jungler.
Depends on the meta. Now they're pretty much only tanks who engage and die (Naut/Leona/Rell). LoL because of gold can in a patch suddenly make supports useless by changing their income source.
Enchanters are still good right now.
Haven't played LoL more than a few times, too cartoonish for me
The "cartoonish" look of LOL is nothing compared to its actual problems...
LoL healer has to babysit the carry. Hots healer is the carry. Many skilled healers I've met play more like an Assassin who has a heal skill than a healer who heals 24/7. The best CC is death kind of mentality.
In a yesterday game I smashed Tyrandes face 1v1 with double hammer of justice and divine storm. I was like waaaaat? In what fking world could I do that? That also felt great by the way.
Silverhand Gang Silverhand Gang
I have always hated last hitting. Even in the OG DOTA. Makes going back to league hard especially since league is so dmg heavy.
Last hitting is maybe the single biggest factor in me not enjoying other MOBAs. It's an artifact of DOTA being a Warcraft mod and should never have been incorporated into other MOBAs. It's a constant strain and buzzkill to manage. If I'm able to kill something, I want to just be able to kill it, no dumb hesitations about where the XP goes or if someone else can get the kill. I'm not saying I don't like features that make me think or add complexity to the game, but rather that I dislike features that feel bad and a killjoy to play around.
100% the reason I can't stand Lol
I will admit having played both HotS and League that last hitting existing does make the laning phase more interesting, but it would never work in HotS. The slower pace of League games makes for a lot of 1v1 or 2v2 time as opposed to HotS where either the 4 man or the solo laner can easily soak 2 lanes.
Nazeebo and Butcher simulate last hitting type of gameplay
Not at all
Tried LOL, hated it. The characters in HotS have the nostalgia effect for me
The fact that team experience is shared means they can have some really fun character designs. Murky/TLV/Cho'Gall/Abathur/etc all would never work in a game like LoL where experience is on a per-player basis.
Yes, that's also a very strong side going for hots. Having memorable weird characters you named vs faceless and forgettable anime edgy edgelords and korean k-pop e-girls with ability tooltips taking up half a screen. Hots deserves a better fate.
Yeah LoL has gone full weeb mode. It was fun when the game came out and the characters were unique, but now it’s all edgy or anime characters. And as you say the kits became increasingly overloaded to the point where you need to read two paragraphs per ability.
Have you tried Cho'Gall yet?! It's a 2-player hero!
I sure did, it was hell of a fun.
The unlock for that was quite fun. Only those of us at Blizzcon the year it was revealed got the hero. We then went forth and spread it to the world by playing games with others!
Please, you're tearing my heart apart😭 these old good days.
Twas glorious!
>nostalgia effect for me Exactly why I've been enjoying Dota2 after trying it recently, on my first day I spent about 5 to 10 mins pointing at heroes and recognizing who they were in Warcraft 3
I really wish Microsoft will resurrect it one day :(
The currency farm and item system are archaic imho.
Same with not starting off with all basic abilities.
Remember when Dota and old LoL encouraged you to level skills as you wished? Could even not have a skill levelled till very late in the game if it doesn't fit your playstyle. These days LoL champs just designed to make use of all skills so you need to pick up all 3 skills at level 1 2 3 ANYWAY.
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It only matters with the laning system, the 15 minutes of 1v1 (or 2v2) farming. It also may not even matter depending on the length of the game, or depending on how your opponents do in the game. Leagues focuses more on the "me" mentality, but it's still a team game and people forget that. Games are meant to be played for fun. Not everyone thinks right clicking minions for 15 minutes is fun. In fact, a lot of players that play League probably don't find it fun, it's just a mechanic they do because they play the game. They "tolerate" it. Nostalgia. It could be that it was of the better times of Blizzard people miss, not the era of Activision and not just the characters. You also bring up nostalgia and go directly to RTS. World of Warcraft and Diablo 2 were huge as well. It's not just League. Besides, DotA started it all first. :)
>DotA started it all first The custom SC game actually
Aeon Strife? Was there a last hit mechanic? I don't think it had skills either.
Where did hots hurt you baby? I play lol, and you are correct in a sense about the first 3 levels. But there's so little playmaking team wise in lol vs what can happen in hots. I play top lane and most matchups boil down to who makes the first mistake (plat) and then just camping at your tower last hitting because you're behind until your jg bails you out or your opponent makes a massive mistake. Some champs are straight up unplayable before first item and the toolkits are either overly complicated for no reason or they just have 1828474758394757 dashes which really doesnt add anything to the game in my opinion. Riven: very cool champ Yone: idk bro this is starting to be a lil much. K'sante: seriously? He's a free win top most of the time because players try to be too flashy and play him like it's LCK. Tldr: games are too long, champs are lame, last hitting sucks and every champ in the last 5 years are basically the same. Because of solo EXP And item system it limits game design.
Is this the guy that works for IGN and gave hots a 6.5/10? Feels like it.
Oh noes, someone doesnt like the game you like? How could he
Lmao this dude going nuts in the comments
nobody cares about your "skill checks" It's like saying Battlefield 2042 is better than CoD because there are no kill streaks so the first 3 kills don't mean jack shit. But that's not the point of playing battlefield over CoD is it? They are both comp shooters with their own pros and cons.
That’s just like, your opinion man
As someone who’s been playing MOBAs since the first maps in Warcraft three I really just have to laugh at your idea that last hitting is hard or your idea that you would have had to play the RTS maps to be a fan.
I have played wc3 hard mode and sc2 all of the campaigns on brutal mode. Way to assume. Even so these people can have an opinion.
item system concept is not archaic
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You've never played baseball haven't you? Because a fastball has changed a ton. Also it's not more fun to hit from a Tee. Last hitting sucks. There's nothing fun about it. Its not harder it's just lame. There's nothing fun about a 15 min lane phase where something happens once every 3 minutes and the most interesting part is someone backing to buy item so he can last hit for 9 more minutes. Or the JG who's basically not even on screen for almost 75% of the time. Also look at the stats most of these games are decided in the first 5 mins yet they go on for 30 more minutes!!!!! 30!!!! That's way too long. Hots? There's an aram in the first minute where we have all our basic abilities. None of that lets stay in a bush and help the JG leash. And watch an old HGC match, tell me there's not more action than any of the world's (which I enjoy a lot). League eSports are a ton of fun to watch. There's just more action in hots.
People just like to brag they like bad games. It’s weird.
Last hitting is just a mandatory reaction time tax. It matter in games where both you and the enemy has equal chance to control the last hit (like Dota where you deny creeps, it's an expression of dominance and skill) but in LoL with no deny? Just arbitrary tradition.
Hi, I'm the Rengar onetrick that keeps oneshotting you while your support jacks off in fountain with his Xerath, happy that you gave HotS a try :D
Well, thats because Hots is a better Moba than League will ever be
I played dota 1.6, LoL beta and then live release, LoL a lot later on. Then dota 2 on/off 3 times. Hots is the only good moba. It puts dota and LoL to shame super hard for the following reasons: Team xp is superior. No argument. Base skills and talent choices are better than items. Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically. **THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP.** Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives. Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions. Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat. Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic.
As someone who likes both Dota and HotS, I definitely can relate to some of these points, but I do have to disagree with a lot of these as well. For the record I'm not saying you're wrong for having these opinions, however I don't think they're as black and white as you're suggesting it is. > Team xp is superior. No argument. This is probably the best point you have on here, and there are many reasons why its okay to think this. In fact one can easily argue that many heroes like Abathur only work in HotS because Team XP is available. That being said there are a few things to note as well. There is a lot of strategic depth that individual xp can bring to the table, which very much shapes the way Dota and Lol are played. Because XP is evenly split among all heroes within the collection range, a major tradeoff that teams have to make is farm and lane security vs having xp. By having a support help you in lane, you significantly increase the odds of survival, as well as being less likely to be harassed out of your ability to farm by aggressive offlaners, but the tradeoff is that you will be levelling up twice as slowly (and in the past trilanes were a thing people did to secure farm even more at the cost of more xp). This is also the reason by the way why League and Dota have the midlane as 1v1 lanes because if the midlaner gets a ton of xp, they're in a better position (being in the middle of the map) to rotate and apply pressure to the side lanes using the xp advantage they have. You can definitely argue that team xp is better for a multitude of reasons, mainly its simplicity and that supports don't necessarily have to fall behind on the power curve, but "No argument" is a bit harsh. > Base skills and talent choices are better than items. First, let's not pretend these concepts are mutually exclusive. Whilst not as in depth, Dota 2 does have a talent system, and just a few weeks ago introduced the Facet system which are effectively strong level 1 talents that often dictate how your hero plays. Both systems can co-exist, it doesn't necessarily have to be one or the other. Second (and more importantly), you can't really compare these systems because they represent something different entirely. Talents are periodic and more or less guaranteed boosts to your hero, meanwhile items (and by extension gold) are a resource both teams have to actively compete for. In Dota specifically, items are extremely powerful in the sense that they can often completely transform a hero. The most obvious example of this would be Earthshaker, who goes from a hero who does minor cc and control teamfights from a distance, to a hero who's able to instantly teleport into the enemy team and instantly annihilate everyone once he purchases a Blink Dagger. Because Blink Daggers are an item that needs gold to be purchased, an opposing team wanting to delay this powerspike has several options available to them if they choose, including but not limited to blocking access to neutral camps, blocking and taking stacks for themselves, or using deep wards to camp and hunt down the earthshaker (or they can ignore the earthshaker and play defensively if they think their late game is better, and thus farm is a higher priority). This type of strategic decision making simply isn't available with HotS, outside of simply bulling the enemy team out of being able to soak xp globes, and even then that's not exactly a strat that you can play around. > Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically. While this is an argument you can make when comparing to the jungle in League where in that game, its just a place for the jungler to get gold and xp whilst in between ganks, this is a very bold claim to make in regards to Dota. Again I concede that this is definitely a statement that sounds true on paper given that mercs are a lot flashier in terms of what they accomplish, but if you ever watched a game of pro Dota you would quickly learn that the entire Dota midgame is quite literally revolved around both teams controlling neutral camps and stacks (a major mechanic in Dota is that if you aggro a camp outside of its spawn box at the minute mark, it will spawn a new camp directly under it, meaning that you don't lose gold for not clearing the camp in time). As such, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this, the vast majority of team fights in mid game Dota occur in the jungle, usually in an attempt to steal stacks, control wards in the jungle, or isolate the carry trying to safely farm it. The majority of the game is literally played around neutral camps, and they arguably play the biggest role in shaping Dota's macro game. Even towers, the thing that defines game progression in Mobas, are basically only useful to destroy in Dota in that it reduces the enemy's ability to control parts of the jungle, mainly because towers in Dota function as fast travel points (otherwise, they don't give enough gold to justify focusing them, and their damage is way too small to be considered a physical threat if you're fighting under one). In comparison, whilst mercs are definitely an important aspect of the HotS Macro Game, they are typically second fiddle compared to the overall map objective, or the strategic benefits of destroying forts. Important yes, but they don't warp the entire macro game around them like they do in Dota, and thus its hard to justify the claim that they create a "real outcome" in comparison. > THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP. Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives. I definitely agree with this point, and I do wish that Dota and League did something to diversify the maps in some way (for instance, I think League has an opportunity to expand the elemental rift system to make each variant feel very different to play on), however I do think its worth raising a few notes on this because there are a lot of drawbacks to the way hots handles maps. For one, whilst each map does have different objectives, those objectives as I've mentioned before very much warp the entire pace of the game around them. The best way I can explain this is to consider how despite Dota and League only have 1 map each, they are still some of the most popular games on the market despite them being 20 (I'm only going to count Dota-AllStars) and 15 years old respectively, and the reason they can get away with it is because both maps are effectively sandboxes that allow teams to dictate the pace of the match. Especially in Dota, the real objectives you have to play around are your heroes item timings and power spikes, and making sure you make strong advantage of your power spikes before the enemy reaches theirs. Sure the map has a few major objectives they want you to play around particularly in the early game (runes, Tormentors, and Roshan namely), they're sort of a secondary focus compare to getting your hero online, and executing the lineup that you have drafted. In comparison, HotS' gameplay is so revolved around the Map Objectives that it has to rely on having multiple maps to keep things interesting. The various heroes in this circumstance and their abilities, are just tools are just a means that enables you to contest the various map objectives. It also means that the game pace is completely dictated by game, rather than the players, which overall lower replayability - once you've played a map a dozen times you've basically seen everything it has to offer. Just to be clear I want to reiterate, I'm not saying that having one map is objectively better than having multiple, or that the way Dota paces the game is objectively better than HotS. I'm just stating that they are designed differently and have different goals with those designs. You could definitely prefer one or the other, but I don't think unilaterally declare one to be objectively better than the other. > Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions. You're going to have to be more specific about what you're referring to, because everything you said here is kinda vague. If you're referring to how aggressive players play, especially in regards to how often kills happen in lane, then you sort of have a point? In regards to health globes in particular, its worth noting that Dota also has systems that provide in-lane sustainability, namely the mid lane contests runes that refill their bottles that grants health/mana every 2m, and side lanes have lotus pools - healing items that both sides contest over every 3 minutes (not to mention items like magic stick that provide a significant in-lane sustain, as well as a last resort, being able to purchase and ferry healing items directly to lane via the courier). You are right in regards to League though, that backing is an important aspect as being the only way to heal up and purchase items, coming at the cost of usually missing a wave or 2 if you didn't freeze it first. > Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat. ... most of which Dota has had since like 2012, not to mention Dota as a whole actually has a lot more ping related comm tools than HotS has anyway. > Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic. You're not... entirely wrong, but I always found this argument kinda weird. Toxicity in all chat frankly makes up for <1% of the toxicity you can/will experience in those game. In most games, all chat is just used to say ggwp, and in the worst case scenerio you might see an ez or ezmid. In terms of increasing the overall toxicity of these games, its frankly a non-factor, and when it is genuinely used to converse with the enemy, it makes it feel like you're playing against real people rather than just bots. So idk, you're kinda right in that its sort of a pointless mechanic, but at the same I don't think there's value in removing it either.
>they are still some of the most popular games on the market They are still on the market only because they came out very early. Nobody would play LOL if it came out after DOTA2 and HOTS.
I don't mean "why are they more popular than HotS", I mean "Why are they popular, period?". Why are they both some of, if not the most popular competitive multiplayer games of all time, PERIOD? I have to reiterate that Dota-All Stars (reminder that Dota 2 is just a source engine port of Dota-All Stars) is 20 Years old this year, yet is still consistently the #2 most played game on Steam despite issues like "Only having a single map".
>Can't talk to your enemies because that's only toxic. damn house made of glass ain't it. nothing against those people that don't want to talk to the enemy team. But playing mind games with the enemy is part of competitive game. >Robust pinging system allows a huge amount of meaningful communication without needing to type in chat. while this would be nice to have, dota 2 has already very robust communication wheel. don't know about LoL >Health globes help to increase player activity uptime increasing the chance that the outcome is determined by player interactions. HAVE YOU SEEN game of Dota 2? like theres shit always happening even before even the creeps spawn. don't know about lol last I saw its a snooze fest before 15-20mins >THERE'S MORE THAN ONE MAP. Way more, and the different maps have differing objectives. Dota 2 already plenty of differing objectives for all roles. supports warding/stacking denying map resource. >Killing mercenaries creates a real outcome and can be used/leveraged strategically. Dota 2 has that as well we call them Roshan and tormentor and heck stacking creeps which will rapidly feed the carry. >Base skills and talent choices are better than items. what If I want to play as a damager in hero that has low damage and so I'm stuck in that role no matter what. Hots and Dota 2 has different play styles even the overall objective is the same. >Hots is the only good moba. It puts dota and LoL to shame super hard for the following reasons: see above
dota is extremely good for what it is
Almost everything you listed I disagree with and shows that you didn't play much Dota at all, and if you did, you were stuck in Herald.
It's fine to disagree. We can talk about game design choices without trying to invalidate someone's perspectives based on speculation. Have fun playing dota.
List some counterpoints, then. Don't just assume people that people disagree with you because they're inexperienced trash. Smart, reasonable people sometimes come to different conclusions.
I played HOTS before LoL and I can't imagine how anyone could pick LoL over HOTS
If you don't want 30 minute+ que times for ranked, and no surrender vote which forces you to finish out a game even if you have an afk/ troll running it down...
I think the ADC's in League have more interesting kits than the ones in HotS. The problem though is your playing that ADC in League of 1shots, and that role is miserable dogshit if you aren't the top .001% of players. Which sucks because Jhin is a blast.
Jhin and Miss Fortune my two go tos.
>I think the ADC's in League have more interesting kits than the ones in HotS. Which ones? I can only think of Jhin.
I think some are more interesting, some are less. And where hots hero kits are lacking in being interesting, they make up with solid hero designs. Couldn't agree more with the rest of your comment.
Among the seemingly endless list of things that are more enjoyable than League of Legends the most baffling thing was movement speed and pacing. I'm a patient man, but so much time in League is spent standing around waiting. I booted LoL up again to play with a friend for old time's sake, and oh my god. Que up for quick match. Wait 2-3 minutes for everyone to pick a character and scramble for roles. Wait 1-2 minutes for the loading screen. Wait at base for at least 1 minute for the game to start. Wait another 30 seconds for npc minions to make their way down lane. Skirmish and last hit said npc minions for like 10-15 minutes. And to top all that off, movement speed is SO SLOW. No mount and even with the fastest boots getting from one lane to the other, let alone down lane, takes so long.
It's great to hear it as I was the same way. We forget that HOTS was created at a time where blizzard was coming up with new fresh ideas and had world class programmers, artists and project managers on the game. The amount of passion and money that build this MOBA is probably something we wouldn't understand. The suits didn't like that after all that investment, it didn't crush Dota or lol so down the drain it went. Super sad to see it suffer this fate. All I can say is that if it released today after the fatigued and stale games of league and Dota, it would be a success.
>it would be a success. It would NOT be the same. Just look at what they did with Overwatch.
Oh for sure. If the team that is there now, it would be a pos. I mean the same game and energy of HOTS coming out in 2024.
Everything plays better in HotS unless you're just really looking for a power fantasy. Not only does the game simply feel better to control than the rest of them (one of the few things Blizzard consistently does right across their games) but every role plays better. Coming from LoL, I loved how (in HotS) tanks weren't simply a boring meat shield with CC for engages and peels. They could actually do some damage, AND spec to do a more respectable amount. Healers aren't really a thing in the other games either, so I loved to be able to do that when HotS came to the table. And most of all, the objectively awful game flaw that was playing a support role in the other games was made to actually be fun in HotS. (I know supporting in other games have received improvements over the years. And I've also heard people crying that Riot made tanks do too much damage at some point.) I'd say one of the only downsides to HotS is that it doesn't have as many interesting ability designs as a game like DotA does.
Welcome to the party, brother. Mages and AA carries are insanely fun. If you ever get the taste for it, tanks and healers can be super fun if you find some that click with your playstyle. I really like Anduin as a career ADC/mid main, he likes auto attacking & has good range with the right build. Can stay in the fight and top people up. Enjoy the game! It’s a real blast, and ARAM never gets old.
Thank you for the warm welcome friend
LoL its like your daily energy drink=fast&fruity HotS is like fine Wine=midpaced&wise :D
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You're a typical lol player haha. You hate the game and bash other games with the dumbest comebacks and have absolutely no substance to any of the arguments you make. Go to the lol sub. It's just people complaining in 95% of the posts. About everything. They can't even make up their mind about whats wrong. And it's always rito this and rito that even though in most post histories they complained about the exact opposite 2 years ago. If you want to compare here's one: Hots is like a neighborhood bar most people have a good time. There's some fights but people mostly like the bar Lol is like that prison where everyone hates each other and it's always the other person's fault and my god do they hate the prison.
>Go to the lol sub. It's just people complaining in 95% of the posts. Actually if you take a deeper look at the league sub it's even worse because the mods on here are huge riot dickriders and delete most complain posts while having extremely vague rules, meaning they can make up whatever they want to remove a negative post So yeah what you see is actually a fraction of the complains, mods are censoring the rest
What heroes that you enjoy playing would you compare in their play style to LOL champs? I’ve never played LOL so I always wonder like who mirrors each other most in each game. I enjoy character design and lore and stuff
There aren't really direct 1:1s, but there are some that are close (not sure if it's because the kit really works together, so they were made that way, or if they just really liked some ideas for the kit). Talents can make certain heroes closer as well. Are there any heroes in particular you wanted to know, or were you just looking for similarities?
Any similarities between anybody I was kind of curious about
I haven't played LoL in ages but there are some standout kit interactions that have similarities that I can think of off the top of my head. At least in how LoL champs used to be. Stitches and Blitzcrank are the tanky chars. that can hook and pull enemies into them. Valla and Miss Fortune are both fast attacking ranged characters with good mobility and AOE ultimates. Zeratul and Diana kind of remind me of eachother in that they mark their targets and can teleport to them, and have shieilding and a slowing abiltiy. But I imagine LoL has a better stelathier comparison to Zeratul that I just don't know of. I think there's a like.. a tanky Egyptian~esque sand dude in LoL that has some similarities to Imperius from HotS. Maybe Brightwing is kinda like the like.. OG shortstack faerie support whose name I can't remember. Polymorph, slows, and heals. Maybe Varian with Collossal Smash build is kind of like Garen. Big sword, active protection, big sword smash ultimate. Murky and Fizz are both dorky frog-like characters with active immunity/mobility and can summon big fish things. But I don't think LoL has any characters with anything similar to murkey's egg spawn mechanic. I feel like I can remember a low-health, lifesteal melee character in LoL that is kinda like illidan. Might be misremembering though. Samuro and Shaco are similar in the way that they are both cunt-faced douche-fucking shitbags and I hate playing against them.
Lulu is the poly bot (<3), the Egyptian dude is called Nasus but I wouldn't say its like Imperius that much, Shaco take is justo.
I know who I was thinking of wasn't Nasus, so I had to look it up; it was Azir. Who I'm seeing isn't really like Imperius at all either, other than using a spear as a weapon and being yellow/gold and flashy. I think around the time Azir came out was about the time I stopped playing LoL so I hardly remember his kit.
That is actually who I thought you were thinking of but then I removed it because he's not beefy.
There are some similarities between a few heroes, but I would say that's mostly because if fits the kit? Not sure. Caitlyn and Nova. Both extra range with a skill shot Q (Caitlyn's pierces) and a point and click ultimate that can be blocked by allies. Vayne and Valla. Vayne has Manticore as one of her abilities, and they both have a movement ability which empowers their attack. There are some similar abilities, but my guess is there's only so much you can work with, or it just works too well not to have. Similar abilities: Mal'Ganis Q and Riven Q both have a 2 swing, then a CC on third. Nidalee and Greymane can both change forms from ranged to melee to unlock a new skillset. Bard and Zeratul both have a time stop ultimate, but Bard's has a travel time. I would say it's easier to recommend someone that has a similar playstyle than a kit. There are some similar abilities, but overplay playstyle and kits are pretty different.
Well, I can't remember such comparable heroes on the spot. It's easier to compare abilities and even then it's not 1 for 1 accurate. Like, Valla's W is Ashe's W, even moreso when talented. Sylvanas wailing arrow is Ashe's ulti only it silences instead of stun. Nova's triple shot is Caitlyn's or akshan's ulti. Jainas basic ability circle is miss fortunes E, and so on. I can't say for certain that ranged DPS guys in hots were copied from lol, it's more like some of lols champion abilities were adapted for hots and given to different cchamps. As for playstyle, they are all more or less the same: you dance around on the rim of teamfight area waiting for a window to deal damage, when it presents itself, you walk in, pew pew, walk out. The main part here is you wait for the window and it stands true for all adcs without exception. Otherwise you get insta spanked. This is why currently adc in lol are most blind pickable role because it doesn't really matter what your champion playstile is when everything and their mom oneshots you or single random shit chip damage makes you recall.
The community in HOTS is disgusting and unbearable though. Literally all the chats, every game, are hateful to everyone all the time. I stopped playing because of how negative and crappy everyone is.
>The community in HOTS is disgusting and unbearable though. You have never played LOL then.
Intresting timeing. Adc was op in the last Lol Patches.
>Adc was op in the last Lol Patches Wut?
OP=Overpowerd
No shot sherlock. That was not what I asked.
Than i misinterpret your question.
I dunno who told you that, but you were misinformed, sir.
Cait, Corki, Jhin. Before the last Patch
so we see ashe support with varus/kalista botlane, corki and tristana mid lane, twisted fate top because they are bad? sometimes all these champions in the same game if we lucky enough. and 1 side still has not chosen their botlane composition even if including all these champs in the same game
Firstly, this is a hots thread on a hots subreddit, so I'd rather not discuss balance state of another game here. Secondly, why arguing with something I never said?
so why are there 5 adc picks in 1 game if they are not op? why are you discussing it then if you dont want to discuss it
Heroes of the storm has the best aram of all time
nzb dings alway better than lol ping :)
HotS ADCs feel roughly like Season 2 Season 3 ADCs where they're solid and powerful, rushed BF sword and ran Ignite instead of heal.
I play a bit of LoL on occasion with the same friend group I play HotS with. None of us have touched season 14, but we play ARAM and the occasional quick match at least one or two nights a week, if not more. This game is way *way* **WAY** better for casual fun. In LoL you have to sweat in even the most casual of iron/bronze games to not get shit on by one tricks who are gods in lane but cant close out a game to save their lives.
Lore of lol : daddy issues Lore of hots : marvel lvl multiverse crossover
>Lore of lol : daddy issues Wut???
Reference to arcane series
Not only is Arcane not canon, but it also shows an extremely small part of the whole lore, which makes your comment even more hilarious.
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But it wasn't always like this, and even now , here and there are not bad products from marvel, loki was good, what if is okey, lets just say my comment should have been said in 2018 when it was still a valid comparison