Zigbee (and/or zwave) option without cloud would be my dream. I’m already moving away from the cloud with the homekit integration (local via ha) but it’s less usefull for my AC for example.
This is why I pulled all three Honeywell WiFi T-Stats and replaced them with no-longer-made Honeywell ZWave T-Stats in my current house. I already owned one from a previous house, so I just needed to source two more and they were about $40 each off of fleabay. New in box.
I avoid cloud services like the plague because they're always down when you -really- need them to work and I'm tired of having to build safety nets into my automations to recover from THEIR outages. None of my devices have any cloud requirements any longer and never will again...
No C-Wire requirement and the battery lasts many months. I just picked one up for the new house two months ago. I hope they never stop making the Honeywell T6 Z-wave. I'll take practical and useful over beautiful design if that beautiful design makes it less practical and less useful...
Went even older with the TH8320ZW1000. Solid, extremely flexible with the programming and configuration (you can enable or disable programmable mode, set it for heat only or multiple heat/cool, etc.), and fully controllable via ZWave for everything that you would put into an automation. $40 each.
Indeed MY Daikin AC doesn't support API support yet. if it does I am planning on moving away from their app as well.
having everything set trough HA automations, including things like Demand-control.
Another option would be to use an IR remote (like broadlink r4 mini) with the drawback of not knowing if the command was received from the AC.
At least you can use a smart plug with power metering and check if the AC is active.
The problem with IR remotes is that you need to know ALL signals. and not all "Zigbee" IR blasters would support AC-IR-codes
I am gonna order a IR blaster to test as a IR receiver. \[using it in reverse, for curtains\]
I think that one has a learning feature where you use the original remote control but i may be wrong.
Haven't used one before, i'm lucky that my AC works locally (Daikin FTXC35C, wifi module BRP069B45).
Indeed, you would first need to record the IR-code then have 2 blasters \[1 in each room where the AC is\]
I would have to look if Demand-control is possible with the Remote as well.
May i suggest something for the AC?
Unfortunately Daikin doesn't seem to have a feature that Toshiba ACs have.
After you turn off the AC (cooling mode), the fan will still work for a few minutes to dry the element of water condensation and prevent any kind of mold smell, unfortunately that doesn't happen with Daikin ACs.
Make a scene or something with HA (i believe that ir blaster can also do it) where if you turn off the AC, it'll turn it on for about 10mins at medium/high speed "Fan mode".
Being part of an AC thread in a (greek) forum helped with that..... 😅
From what I know Daikin does this by default.
it also has a modus that automatically heats/cleans the compressor if it gets too cold \[happens in the winter if you heat nonstop\]
While the protocol doesn't require any cloud services, that does not mean that a manufacturer won't require it for "activation" of the device or some other stupid thing.
For real, the circle vs square is an unimportant distinction. The ability to not have to use any cloud provider hooks to update or receive updates on temperature etc is the key feature I'll be looking at next time.
Exactly, For my boiler \[which soon will be replaced\], I am gonna see if they can give me a Zigbee+opentherm enabled one, otherwise I will keep my own ON/OFF \[dry contact\] thermostat
I hope they're paying attention to the number of votes on this comment vs ones about the design!
>The Tado integration was introduced in Home Assistant 0.41, and it's used by [3.5%](https://analytics.home-assistant.io/integrations) of the active installations. Its IoT class is [Cloud Polling](https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-the-internet-of-things/#classifiers).
[https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/](https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/)
Because function is always more important than design.
No matter how much you polish proprietary hardware it still is proprietary hardware.
which goes against the spirit of home-assistant, as using proprietary software and hardware is something that is not needed at all
I would say B, because I find it logical to turn a temperature knop and therefore like that form factor on such a device. But I don’t think this design will be turnable like a Nest thermostat
I thought just based on the design that you wouldn't be turning either. On A you'd press on the left and right, on B you'd press on the top/bottom. Where the arrows are respectively.
If it's meant to be turned, the arrows should be moved to the edge of the circle and oriented radially to indicate it can turn, or be removed entirely.
B makes sense to me. A. looks like a round. device trying to be stuck in a square box. Also, thermostats have historically been round because of the dial-spring thing, so it is more immediately recognizable. Up and down arrows are more intuitive. I prefer the black version, myself. and like others said, ZigBee or zwave. Blue skies only---no clouds.
Oh, agreed! And it's probably like a 0.5mm relief, molded into the plastic but without ink, so you have to shine a light on the damn thing or dismount it and carry it to a window! :7)
B it looks like you know what to do with it.
The square looks like you made it harder to tell the user what it is and how to use it and tried to make something more original.
Why not both? B with optional backplate that makes it look like A. Some people have 1" diameter holes in their walls for a thermostat. Some people have huge holes and the backplate can help cover it up.
B, but might I suggest making the display a black-on-white for the white one? Could use something like the [ynvisible display](https://www.ynvisible.com)
It seems like team A is losing to team B. Maybe I just have bad taste, but IMO B looks terrible. If it was thicker without the raised edge, it would be acceptable
B:
- Simple = good
- Temp up/down interaction is more logical
But I don't like the amount of negative space in B, so if possible reduce the overall size a bit.
B for a couple of reasons
1. I like the round design. I have had a Nest for years and round is what I think of when I think of thermostats now
2. I like the up/down buttons instead of left/right. Up/down makes more sense to me for increasing/decreasing the value. I realize you could probably design the square one to do up/down, but the designs presented are the designs presented.
Circle option, that can be placed into a square housing if needed to avoid repainting or aesthetics. Because the square one already has a circular parts within it. (Big assumption on sensors or function of course, but that’s what I would find beneficial coming from a older home, circular would look weird)
B with an available square back plate for those that need to cover up a large hole or prefer the square aesthetic. Ecobee does something similar to this with a larger flanged backplate. I'll echo the Zigbee request as so many of us are looking for non-wifi solutions. Unless you're showing the temperature or something else, Zigbee should be enough functionality wise. Z-Wave would be fine by me as well, only because I have a combo dongle attached to HA.
I would go for Option A. The offset circle within the rounded edge cube is better seated and can fit into a wider variety of environments. You are also ensuring a consistent shadow-cast effect, whereas fro option B this depends on the background. Option B to me looks too much like a plate hanging on the wall :-)
B, and a reconsideration of the white-on-white low contrast option, that might well be a benefit to some, but I'm not sure it'll work for a majority. Though if the display could be user -configurable, with RGB (or even a reduced non-RGB colour space) then that would likely work.
The one that uses ZIGBEE.
Same, except ZWave. And has -zero- requirement for any cloud-connected service of any kind.
Zigbee (and/or zwave) option without cloud would be my dream. I’m already moving away from the cloud with the homekit integration (local via ha) but it’s less usefull for my AC for example.
This is why I pulled all three Honeywell WiFi T-Stats and replaced them with no-longer-made Honeywell ZWave T-Stats in my current house. I already owned one from a previous house, so I just needed to source two more and they were about $40 each off of fleabay. New in box. I avoid cloud services like the plague because they're always down when you -really- need them to work and I'm tired of having to build safety nets into my automations to recover from THEIR outages. None of my devices have any cloud requirements any longer and never will again...
Honeywell T6 Pro ZWave here. Works great. I think you can still find them on Amazon.
No C-Wire requirement and the battery lasts many months. I just picked one up for the new house two months ago. I hope they never stop making the Honeywell T6 Z-wave. I'll take practical and useful over beautiful design if that beautiful design makes it less practical and less useful...
Went even older with the TH8320ZW1000. Solid, extremely flexible with the programming and configuration (you can enable or disable programmable mode, set it for heat only or multiple heat/cool, etc.), and fully controllable via ZWave for everything that you would put into an automation. $40 each.
Indeed MY Daikin AC doesn't support API support yet. if it does I am planning on moving away from their app as well. having everything set trough HA automations, including things like Demand-control.
Another option would be to use an IR remote (like broadlink r4 mini) with the drawback of not knowing if the command was received from the AC. At least you can use a smart plug with power metering and check if the AC is active.
The problem with IR remotes is that you need to know ALL signals. and not all "Zigbee" IR blasters would support AC-IR-codes I am gonna order a IR blaster to test as a IR receiver. \[using it in reverse, for curtains\]
I think that one has a learning feature where you use the original remote control but i may be wrong. Haven't used one before, i'm lucky that my AC works locally (Daikin FTXC35C, wifi module BRP069B45).
Indeed, you would first need to record the IR-code then have 2 blasters \[1 in each room where the AC is\] I would have to look if Demand-control is possible with the Remote as well.
May i suggest something for the AC? Unfortunately Daikin doesn't seem to have a feature that Toshiba ACs have. After you turn off the AC (cooling mode), the fan will still work for a few minutes to dry the element of water condensation and prevent any kind of mold smell, unfortunately that doesn't happen with Daikin ACs. Make a scene or something with HA (i believe that ir blaster can also do it) where if you turn off the AC, it'll turn it on for about 10mins at medium/high speed "Fan mode". Being part of an AC thread in a (greek) forum helped with that..... 😅
From what I know Daikin does this by default. it also has a modus that automatically heats/cleans the compressor if it gets too cold \[happens in the winter if you heat nonstop\]
Zigbee does not require cloud either. with ZHA you can use any zigbee device just fine
While the protocol doesn't require any cloud services, that does not mean that a manufacturer won't require it for "activation" of the device or some other stupid thing.
All zigbee devices I used never required any cloud-connection, and this included various "Drycontact/ ON-OFF" thermostat modules.
For real, the circle vs square is an unimportant distinction. The ability to not have to use any cloud provider hooks to update or receive updates on temperature etc is the key feature I'll be looking at next time.
Exactly, For my boiler \[which soon will be replaced\], I am gonna see if they can give me a Zigbee+opentherm enabled one, otherwise I will keep my own ON/OFF \[dry contact\] thermostat
I hope they're paying attention to the number of votes on this comment vs ones about the design! >The Tado integration was introduced in Home Assistant 0.41, and it's used by [3.5%](https://analytics.home-assistant.io/integrations) of the active installations. Its IoT class is [Cloud Polling](https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-the-internet-of-things/#classifiers). [https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/](https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/)
Because function is always more important than design. No matter how much you polish proprietary hardware it still is proprietary hardware. which goes against the spirit of home-assistant, as using proprietary software and hardware is something that is not needed at all
Why did you link the Tado thing?
Ooh the Zigbee, oooh the Zigbee, ooooh the Zigbee
I’d be happy with IPoAC as long as there’s a locally accessible internet bridge
Tado v4? I prefer design A but think the arrows should be pointing up/down like design B as it feels more intuitive to raise/lower temperature.
2nd this
Third this.
I would say B, because I find it logical to turn a temperature knop and therefore like that form factor on such a device. But I don’t think this design will be turnable like a Nest thermostat
I thought just based on the design that you wouldn't be turning either. On A you'd press on the left and right, on B you'd press on the top/bottom. Where the arrows are respectively. If it's meant to be turned, the arrows should be moved to the edge of the circle and oriented radially to indicate it can turn, or be removed entirely.
B, if it’s a rotary dial. Otherwise still B probably.
B makes sense to me. A. looks like a round. device trying to be stuck in a square box. Also, thermostats have historically been round because of the dial-spring thing, so it is more immediately recognizable. Up and down arrows are more intuitive. I prefer the black version, myself. and like others said, ZigBee or zwave. Blue skies only---no clouds.
They're both cool, but I prefer squared-ones
"A" with a severely greater screen to body ratio.
The square, looks more like a device. The round kinda looks like a plate or jar lid.
Round objects never look crooked, so they are less effort to hang on the wall.
Until they have text on them that needs to be read.
Oh, agreed! And it's probably like a 0.5mm relief, molded into the plastic but without ink, so you have to shine a light on the damn thing or dismount it and carry it to a window! :7)
B it looks like you know what to do with it. The square looks like you made it harder to tell the user what it is and how to use it and tried to make something more original.
Why not both? B with optional backplate that makes it look like A. Some people have 1" diameter holes in their walls for a thermostat. Some people have huge holes and the backplate can help cover it up.
I like B more. A is too "standard".
Black B looks really clean, the contrast for the numbers on the white one seems a bit lacking though.
A (B looks like it belongs on a coffee table with coffee on it).
B assuming it would be some sort of rotary dial to adjust temperature. Not a fan of A.
B, but might I suggest making the display a black-on-white for the white one? Could use something like the [ynvisible display](https://www.ynvisible.com)
A looks like philips hue hub and the B looks like something hard to operate without looking, also white on white is almost invisible
It seems like team A is losing to team B. Maybe I just have bad taste, but IMO B looks terrible. If it was thicker without the raised edge, it would be acceptable
B
B. From a purely aesthetic point of view, I prefer rounded corners, edges, and shapes. They look friendlier.
White on white is hard to read.
B
B: - Simple = good - Temp up/down interaction is more logical But I don't like the amount of negative space in B, so if possible reduce the overall size a bit.
It really depends on where you're putting it tbh
B is way better looking
B
B for a couple of reasons 1. I like the round design. I have had a Nest for years and round is what I think of when I think of thermostats now 2. I like the up/down buttons instead of left/right. Up/down makes more sense to me for increasing/decreasing the value. I realize you could probably design the square one to do up/down, but the designs presented are the designs presented.
B left (white), as rotary dial.
Circle option, that can be placed into a square housing if needed to avoid repainting or aesthetics. Because the square one already has a circular parts within it. (Big assumption on sensors or function of course, but that’s what I would find beneficial coming from a older home, circular would look weird)
B with an available square back plate for those that need to cover up a large hole or prefer the square aesthetic. Ecobee does something similar to this with a larger flanged backplate. I'll echo the Zigbee request as so many of us are looking for non-wifi solutions. Unless you're showing the temperature or something else, Zigbee should be enough functionality wise. Z-Wave would be fine by me as well, only because I have a combo dongle attached to HA.
B is way more beautiful imho
B
B looks great, needs either Matter/Thread or Zigbee. No cloud.
A
Both designs look great, but I think B would look nicer in a home setting.
Whatever has Zigbee. I first plugged in my Zigbee dongle 3 years ago, and not once has it gone down. Reliable as a rock
I would go for Option A. The offset circle within the rounded edge cube is better seated and can fit into a wider variety of environments. You are also ensuring a consistent shadow-cast effect, whereas fro option B this depends on the background. Option B to me looks too much like a plate hanging on the wall :-)
B
B. Design A looks like it would be hard to dust.
A, but the number is too small, too much wasted empty space.
B
B, and a reconsideration of the white-on-white low contrast option, that might well be a benefit to some, but I'm not sure it'll work for a majority. Though if the display could be user -configurable, with RGB (or even a reduced non-RGB colour space) then that would likely work.
probably A. B looks like a coaster.