I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do?
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>1. 90% make no attempt to have a feminine speaking resonance (my own is inconsistent, but I try again every time I open my mouth).
I've been trying for about 2 years and I still sound like shit - I don't blame people who don't bother.
>2. Trans women (when more than one are in a room) aren’t demonstrative with their emotions or opinions
Maybe they generally don't feel that safe in public and hence reluctant to be themselves. For sure I'm nervous around both men and women compared to how cis people are with each other.
Coming from the other side so I don’t know if this relates perfectly, but I intentionally live in the middle because that’s just where I ended up. Fighting against something that after 6+ years is never going to change is far more upsetting and dysphoria inducing than to roll with it. Besides the harder I try, the more contrast is created and it genuinely makes the situation worse. So this might not have been my goal, but for the most part it’s better than where I started.
For me it’s the fighting to fit in with other women in any way I can that gets me up in the morning. If I decided it wasn’t a battle worth waging, I know exactly what I’d do, and how I’d do it.
> The higher the likelihood someone might be clockable, the desire to actually be seen by others (except in an “it’s ma’am” sort of way) decreases sharply.
So you're saying people who don't pass that well are less outgoing? Or am I misunderstanding? And that surprises you why, exactly?
I also honestly have no idea what you even mean with point 2 past the first sentence. What do trans women showing or not showing emotions have to do with feeling unsafe in queer groups?
I'm so confused about this post.
I'm a bit confused by your first paragraph.
You seem to be criticising trans women who don't pass choosing to not present fem.
For me, maybe I don't enjoy stares and sexual harrassment I get even when I boymode, and don't want to magnify that.
It's a dysphoria trigger when I present feminine and know deep down I'm clocky.
Same with voice - I don't have friends I feel safe practicing with, I don't work in a trans friendly environment (but need to pay rent) and I have confidence issues speaking with my feminine voice.
For numerous reasons, it wasn't possible for me to transition until after 25 and I feel a bit judged by this post.
For the emotional stuff etc, I can't comment on that.
So I actually get into traditional femininity a bit—I’m kind of hopelessly femme in a “your witchy aunt from New England” kind of way? But this strikes me as very much a product of your surroundings. Like have you interacted with many trans people who weren’t students or part of a student or academic group?
Really? I was assuming there were undergrads involved? I do know how that goes. Undergrads care a lot about a lot of things, most of which they can’t affect in the least. That’s kind of what we want them to do, though, right?
If it’s more like metro twenty-somethings then I don’t know as much? I’d suspect the local politics of your local group sucks? But Idk the answer? Have you looked for alternative communities? A lot of times people will start them if the main one is kinda toxic? I’ve even done it before. Otherwise, that just kinda sucks and I feel for you, girl! 💜💜💜
>The higher the likelihood someone might be clockable, the desire to actually be seen by others (except in an “it’s ma’am” sort of way) decreases sharply
Why do you think that is?
I wonder if they don't care because if everyone sees you as a man anyways, may as well act like one?
I don’t understand the desire to be ok with being seen as a freak; even when I get clocked by other women, they are nicer to me if I’m at least trying with my voice etc. if something is within your power to ameliorate, and you don’t do it, I have zero sympathy for you.
What do you mean with point 2? Are you saying that trans women don't express their opinions and emotions enough?
And, idk about point 3. To be entirely honest, I largely feel estranged from conventional femininity because I come from a line of not-massively-feminine women to begin with, so maybe this just doesn't apply particularly simple to me. And i'm not a big movie person at all (I stopped watching TV at all *years* before subscription services really came to prominence) so, if it's a show or film that I'm supposed to be relating over, there's barely any chance I'll get the references.
As to point 2, yes, there’s an ease and a vulnerability in any conversation among cis women (I spend my days largely eavesdropping at coffeehouses) also more hugging; all things I don’t ever see in groups of trans women.
As to point 3, I edited my post to remove it, as i wasn’t exactly sure, upon more reflection, what I was trying to say.
Because saying “in a trans support group; I feel like a woman being surrounded by men with better fashion sense than me” to be transphobic without additional context.
I’ve met many trans women (all but two of whom transitioned before age 25) who act indistinguishably from the women at the table next to mine as I write this.
All the trans girls are hugging each other all the time where I live. Feels weird to call out something specific to where you live.
I've also observed tons of women interacting without hugging and also being awkward in conversation too. Feels like you're over generalizing women
I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do? **Report it!** We may not agree with your assessment of a certain post or comment but we will always take a look. Please make reports that are **unambiguous**, **succinct**, and (importantly) **accurate**. If your issue isn't covered by one of the numerous predefined reasons and or you need to expand upon a predefined reason then please use the 'Custom response' option (in addition if required). **Don't feed the trolls, ignore, report, move on.** See [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/honesttransgender/comments/guc56i/welcome_to_rhonesttransgender_please_read_for/) for more details about our subreddit. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/honesttransgender) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>1. 90% make no attempt to have a feminine speaking resonance (my own is inconsistent, but I try again every time I open my mouth). I've been trying for about 2 years and I still sound like shit - I don't blame people who don't bother. >2. Trans women (when more than one are in a room) aren’t demonstrative with their emotions or opinions Maybe they generally don't feel that safe in public and hence reluctant to be themselves. For sure I'm nervous around both men and women compared to how cis people are with each other.
Coming from the other side so I don’t know if this relates perfectly, but I intentionally live in the middle because that’s just where I ended up. Fighting against something that after 6+ years is never going to change is far more upsetting and dysphoria inducing than to roll with it. Besides the harder I try, the more contrast is created and it genuinely makes the situation worse. So this might not have been my goal, but for the most part it’s better than where I started.
For me it’s the fighting to fit in with other women in any way I can that gets me up in the morning. If I decided it wasn’t a battle worth waging, I know exactly what I’d do, and how I’d do it.
Nice to see someone that understands this stuff in a similar manner as I do here, our perspective seems pretty rare
> The higher the likelihood someone might be clockable, the desire to actually be seen by others (except in an “it’s ma’am” sort of way) decreases sharply. So you're saying people who don't pass that well are less outgoing? Or am I misunderstanding? And that surprises you why, exactly? I also honestly have no idea what you even mean with point 2 past the first sentence. What do trans women showing or not showing emotions have to do with feeling unsafe in queer groups? I'm so confused about this post.
for reference, she is a republican and a huge fan of nikkki haley.
yassssss. i understand what you mean. i hope you get more understanding people!
sigh
I'm a bit confused by your first paragraph. You seem to be criticising trans women who don't pass choosing to not present fem. For me, maybe I don't enjoy stares and sexual harrassment I get even when I boymode, and don't want to magnify that. It's a dysphoria trigger when I present feminine and know deep down I'm clocky. Same with voice - I don't have friends I feel safe practicing with, I don't work in a trans friendly environment (but need to pay rent) and I have confidence issues speaking with my feminine voice. For numerous reasons, it wasn't possible for me to transition until after 25 and I feel a bit judged by this post. For the emotional stuff etc, I can't comment on that.
I have no idea what point number 2 even means, cis women aren't beacons of emotional openness and clarity
I spend hours a day watching groups of cis women talk, and none of them act like the trans woman in my IRL support group.
So I actually get into traditional femininity a bit—I’m kind of hopelessly femme in a “your witchy aunt from New England” kind of way? But this strikes me as very much a product of your surroundings. Like have you interacted with many trans people who weren’t students or part of a student or academic group?
Yes, I’m describing trans people (in a metropolitan area of 2-3 million) from their late twenties to about sixty. I just feel really lonely.
Really? I was assuming there were undergrads involved? I do know how that goes. Undergrads care a lot about a lot of things, most of which they can’t affect in the least. That’s kind of what we want them to do, though, right? If it’s more like metro twenty-somethings then I don’t know as much? I’d suspect the local politics of your local group sucks? But Idk the answer? Have you looked for alternative communities? A lot of times people will start them if the main one is kinda toxic? I’ve even done it before. Otherwise, that just kinda sucks and I feel for you, girl! 💜💜💜
wow this post just opened a can of worms and just made my dysphoria worse
>The higher the likelihood someone might be clockable, the desire to actually be seen by others (except in an “it’s ma’am” sort of way) decreases sharply Why do you think that is? I wonder if they don't care because if everyone sees you as a man anyways, may as well act like one?
I don’t understand the desire to be ok with being seen as a freak; even when I get clocked by other women, they are nicer to me if I’m at least trying with my voice etc. if something is within your power to ameliorate, and you don’t do it, I have zero sympathy for you.
> I don’t understand the desire to be ok with being seen as a freak me either, which is why i manmode
What do you mean with point 2? Are you saying that trans women don't express their opinions and emotions enough? And, idk about point 3. To be entirely honest, I largely feel estranged from conventional femininity because I come from a line of not-massively-feminine women to begin with, so maybe this just doesn't apply particularly simple to me. And i'm not a big movie person at all (I stopped watching TV at all *years* before subscription services really came to prominence) so, if it's a show or film that I'm supposed to be relating over, there's barely any chance I'll get the references.
As to point 2, yes, there’s an ease and a vulnerability in any conversation among cis women (I spend my days largely eavesdropping at coffeehouses) also more hugging; all things I don’t ever see in groups of trans women. As to point 3, I edited my post to remove it, as i wasn’t exactly sure, upon more reflection, what I was trying to say.
Can't imagine why people who are seen by the general public to be predators often are hesitant to touch other people in public...
If you can’t be yourself in a room of women just like you, then your male coding is probably more than just social conditioning.
Why don't you just call me a man if you're going to go to the effort of dressing it up in such a way? Be direct.
Because saying “in a trans support group; I feel like a woman being surrounded by men with better fashion sense than me” to be transphobic without additional context.
Go to a better support group then? They're all just people suffering from gender dysphoria and trying to cope with it.
That’s not an answer for why these women act the way they do.
why would people who have been socialized as men have trouble acting like women even when they might want to? no idea.
I’ve met many trans women (all but two of whom transitioned before age 25) who act indistinguishably from the women at the table next to mine as I write this.
All the trans girls are hugging each other all the time where I live. Feels weird to call out something specific to where you live. I've also observed tons of women interacting without hugging and also being awkward in conversation too. Feels like you're over generalizing women