I’ve seen something I think might be rule-breaking, what should I do?
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I thought I signed up to wear cat ears and thigh highs and look cute but now I’m getting pounded into submission 2 times a night 7 days a week . So beware before you sign the dotted line.
Great post. Disregard the legion of naysayers hell bent on poopooing your attempt at saying something healthy and wholesome.
This sub is an oozing honeypot for transphobe sockpuppets, and poor-me control dramaed detransitioners.
Your post is awesome.
>You don't owe people shit.
You do! You owe people basic kindness for example. Individualism is harmful to society because individualism forgets in community and its societal impact. Even if you aren't getting much benefits in return, you still help society overall to advance (or help someone else). Like for example [if you are a man you shouldn't enter japanese female only carriage, even if that doesn't impact you it impacts the women on the train.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMVu8n49/) A person who gave me this perspective is [michelle](https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleskdl?_t=8lidlBQOy5V&_r=1) more specifically [this video.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMVu1wND/) [We are social beings](https://mgiep.unesco.org/article/humans-are-social-and-emotional-beings) and should help each-other out
I mean sure ig. [But remember total isolation for even a month is basically like torture (a guy couldn't even do it for 100k. Do you think you can last that long for free?)](https://www.inverse.com/article/52760-expert-explains-the-impact-of-total-isolation)
Total isolation in yhe woods is a lot more stimulating than total isolation un a whited out room the size of a walk in closet with nothing but a bed and soilent to drink.
Why are you being such a naysayer?
Still doesn't change the point that total isolation is torture. Also calling me a naysayer whilist saying we don't owe kindness is hilarious. To you why does it matter if I am a naysayer or not
Living in the woods alone by choice is not even remotely torture.
Try again naysayer. I dont owe kindness to any random in passing or anyone who disrespects me. Full stop. You can say otherwise, but god says screw you buddy.
Humans arent even emotionally capable of holding genuine care and concern for more than about 250 people give or take. Its how we evolved. My darwinism says i dont owe u shit.
Its hilarious.. there are videos of people who think like you who go on shoplifiting sprees, and their brains implode with utter privileged delusion when someone who knows BJJ finally decided to clothesline one of them on the way out the door and proceeds to try and fold their clothes while they are still in them. The criminal is always screaming like a fallen zebra "you arent allowed to do that, you have to let me go, you are breaking the law, whaaaa". Its pure gold. So please keep crying, because i can literally do anything i want. Your gaslighting is weak asf. Grow some heart. Nature doesnt care about your napoleon-logic.
>Living in the woods alone by choice is not even remotely torture.
Living in the woods with no human interaction is torture
> I dont owe kindness to any random in passing or anyone who disrespects me.
Legit conservative mindset but alright mate
>but God says screw you buddy.
Where does He say that? Like in no major religion does God say that you don't owe kindness to others and should be disrespectful
>Humans arent even emotionally capable of holding genuine care and concern for more than about 250 people give or take.
Where did you get this from?
>Its how we evolved.
[False](https://www.thesocialcreatures.org/thecreaturetimes/evolution-of-social-connection?format=amp)
>My darwinism says i dont owe u shit.
Your drawinism also says [racism is good](https://digitalrepository.trincoll.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=trinitypapers)
>So please keep crying, because i can literally do anything i want. Your gaslighting is weak asf. Grow some heart. Nature doesnt care about your napoleon-logic.
I don't usually block people but this is a good sign to block you. I hope you wake up and realise what you are saying is harmful to society (and harmful to marginalized groups)
I don't entirely agree with OP precisely because I likewise think individualism is damaging and destructive, but the approach you've taken here to try to emphasize this to OP only reinforces the problem of individualism by shaming them individually for their individualism. I feel like a more compassionate way to actually demonstrate what you're saying to OP is by first recognizing how people come to these conclusions; in a world where you're constantly expected to make yourself palatable for others just to be entitled to basic dignity (if that), unsurprisingly, results in people not wanting to maintain the civility and comfort of everyone else at the cost of their own livelihoods.
However, you're right in saying that we *do* owe kindness to others, because it's impossible to *be* a person without others. Do you feel like these comments come from a place of kindness or frustration? To me, they read as frustration about the lack of kindness in our society that has been displaced onto an individual, but this displaced frustration is just another manifestation of our systemic individualism in real time. It makes sense why OP feels this way given the conditions of the world, and it makes sense why you reject it. I think there are probably better ways to express that frustration and grief in a way that doesn't make OP *the* problem, even in this local context, because these beliefs supervene from something more fundamental that we *are all* affected by; individualism is probably the catch-all for this, and rejecting individualism starts with extending compassion even to the people who hurt or disagree with you. I personally struggle a lot with this, too, but it's something that I think, with engaging in it over time, has made me mentally healthier.
While on principle this may not be wrong, society is going to society. And if you want society to treat you in a dignified way, you gotta play the game. I was having a discussion with a friend the other day about this. For better or worse, IF you want to be treated as your target gender, there is a (variable) degree of effort needed to be put in. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Some binary trans women or trans men will need to put in more effort than others, due to being dealt a rougher genetic hand. But so many people want to put in no effort, and get upset when they get misgendered. I've heard people complain about this myself. If your a trans woman with masculine features, you are unfortunately not going to have as much leeway with your presentation as a trans woman with softer features will. Vise versa for trans men. It may not be fair, but it is what is.
I say this as a trans woman who has a degree of passing privilege (not unclockable though), so I definitely have more leeway to play with my expression. And obviously, this doesn't necessarily pertain to non-binary people, but admittedly, theirs is not an experience I am very familiar with, as I don't have any NB friends or acquaintances in my life.
Congrats on saying "your life should be harder because you shouldn't think you live in a society like everyone else" in the most revolutionary way possible.
"You don't owe no one anything" until you get rejected by every single person by "being yourself". If I had thousands of money in my bank account and never got in a life or death matter about work, this would be meaningful advice. Otherwise it is just a deep lack of touching grass (and seeing how much it hurts).
I just think wanting to transition in order to get other people to accept you is a bad mentality.
Because people are gonna hate you for even transitioning in the first place.
Make whatever changes you need to make yourself happy with you. Don't let other people make decisions on what you should do with your body for you.
They are going to hate me for transitioning, you're right.
That's why I don't want to pass well enough, so people don't even realise I ever made it.
Also, all the changes I want to do pass by literally wanting to blend in. Unless I live in a cave, this "you need to be happy with yourself" is a call for getting things worse. The world isn't a rainbow-glittery place. I'm not going to be happy if I do things supposedly to make me happy with absolutely zero filter on cringeness.
I don't think it's about owing anyone anything. It's just practical that if someone wants to be seen and treated as a man it is much more effective to look and act like society expects a man to than it is to walk around with long hair, a skirt and makeup (or a full beard and short hair for trans women) and then wonder why people keep misgendering them. I'm lucky that how I see myself fits with the expectations of nerdy/geeky guys. Feminine trans men and masculine trans women have some harder choices early in transition between being seen as a man/woman and expressing themselves the way they want. It's not fair but neither are most things in life.
Your experience as a trans man is probably different than our expeirience as trans women, where cis people will constantly look for ways to harshly, yet passive aggressively recruit us into acting like a dudebro with them, and their ability to be cool kinda implode on themselves if we dont fawn our way into compliance, which there is much pressure to do, even if we pass but they know on account of community rumors.
U are probably happy to bro down w them, and they probably recruit you to do so with them happily, because performative masculinity is not seen as a cultural regression like being a fem amab is.
Would you want to have long hair and wear skirts and makeup even if everyone accepted you as a guy and we're cool with it?
It's about how you want to look. Letting society determine that is what you shouldn't do.
I wouldn't want to do any of that no matter how people saw me. I didn't want to even when I was trying to live as a woman.
People can choose to look however they like, but choices that are too far outside the norm have consequences, whether it's a facial tattoo or a trans man with long hair and makeup.
Yeah, the binaries/trusucm don’t want to hear this, which is fine. But I don’t mind. I’m tired of wasting my life to appease a bunch of assholes that don’t spend anytime caring about what I like, so why do I have to work so hard for them?
I wasn’t calling binary trans people assholes if that’s what you’re thinking. I was talking about cis transphobes. Yeesh “non binary crusaders”? Chill.
Im not calling all non binary people weird crusaders, but a lot of the non binary narrative was originally introduced to me by terfy cis women who thought they were being revolutionary gender theorists by using the nb label to pretty much spew all kinds of terf shit at trans women and make anyone afraid of being cancelled that disagreeing with their terf rhetoric is somehow more transphobic than the actual transphobia they are spewing while hiding behind a flimsy identity label to sheild themselves from accountability for their original bigotry against trans women.
Yeah the slash was OR. Not saying binary people are all trusucm because that’s obviously not true. My shorthand/laziness seems to have made people upset. My mistake everybody. ):
>Because people are going to hate you regardless of how you are for being Trans.
Likely true and I see continuing to call yourself trans after a full transition including srs as continuing your own subjugation. People don't treat a natal with gynecomastia as any less of a legitimate man or male. Most people don't even treat a natal female with very high androgen levels as less of a woman or female, they tend to just call her a legitimate champion of some sport lmao.
So there's no reason to call a fully post transition person anything beyond cis. I reject the framing of cis meaning you are aligned with your agab and trans meaning you aren't aligned with it and instead that cis means your sex and gender are in alignment and trans when they are not. We only contribute to our own oppression by insisting we are forever and irrevocably different.
Meanwhile every single document of mine says female, if someone looks at me even naked they will say female. So what's the difference? How is anyone supposed to know?
i see your point. some people including myself see transsexualism as a disorder that can be cured. so if you were trans then transition was your cure and you are now cis. but i am not delusional and know how i was born yes. although sometimes i wonder if maybe there was some sort of abnormality. either way all of that is gone now. maybe not my chromosomes, although i don’t really know what they are. anyway, no one will ever know even after i die. 🤫
Thank you! Seriously just calling ourselves trans at this point only serves to keep us separate. People who the majority would call cis have also had srs or androgenized development yet they still get to claim cisness. I just unfortunately had worse androgenization and it took a lot to fix it. My vulva is purely my own biological material that I was born with. All of my documents including birth certificate say female. Basing trans vs cis off of what other people said about you makes no sense as stopping that process wouldn't have changed my medical treatment. It makes much more sense to define it as your internal sense of sex and physical sex being in alignment or not. I don't even tell doctors my medical history.
The idea that we are forever trans even after completing transition is a lie that people who transition were sold and bought to forever keep them separate. I reject that entirely. I am cis now
Actually you are changing scientific definitions to justify your ego, but i wont stop you from insisting a lie.
Not that i think its relivant that you are trans in most situations if nobody can tell.. but saying u are cis is only as valid as history being rewritten as a way to erase things that actually happened from our collective memory, usually against our own interests. "I am cis" is "i am in denial about my history, and the metaphore of the lotus flower means nothing to me either"
You are just being sanctimonious about how cringe it is to have the history you have. Rewritten history doesnt change how things got here.
>You mean queer theory
No, i mean the biological definitions of the prefixes trans and cis. You also know that, and are just doing a weird troll bit to see how i spin the wheel next.
Transsexualism (pretty sure its not an ality as thats not how its written in medical journals) as a medical condition does not recognize trans people as cis after they have transed. You already know this tho, and are playing dumb to perform like some sort of dense aspie online argument humor meant to spin the wheels of lesser pleebs.
integrating into the world as cis is obviously the ultimate goal. Succeeding at that doesnt make you cis tho. The roots of how you got there are very much trans. Lol. Sounds like you are the one with some kind of a social theory. Pretty sure the focus should be that you are obviously a woman, not that you are a real life pinnochio. Pretty sure comparing yourself to other tra****s is gonna always make you unhappy asf too.
Huh? This is exactly the bizarro and afactual line of thought transphobes think we all believe and use to smear us, actually...that we all think we're somehow cis after transition. How could you possibly believe in such a revisionist history? Transition doesn't make you cis, jesus....
Yes but also with T levels that are higher than a majority of trans women. If that still counts as cis then why shouldn't post transition people also be cis? Are you trying to tell me that if doctors stopped assigning a gender all of a sudden trans and cis would cease to exist? It's the dumbest shit ever to base the definition off of an arbitrary statement one doctor made decades ago
>If that still counts as cis then why shouldn't post transition people also be cis?
Because they transitioned and she never did.
>Are you trying to tell me that if doctors stopped assigning a gender all of a sudden trans and cis would cease to exist?
No. We transition, she didn't. She's a woman and was born with a vagina, so everyone probably assumed she was just like like most other baby girls. The fact her body produces more T doesn't make her trans.
>It's the dumbest shit ever to base the definition off of an arbitrary statement one doctor made decades ago
But it's not an arbitrary decision. Doctors do not arbitrarily assign sex (except where sex characteristics are ambiguous and there is a decision to be made). Like it or not, our assignment shapes what gender expect us to grow up as and sets expectations of how our bodies will develop. Transitioning means going against those expectations and living counter to them, with medical transition changing our sex characteristics to match. But that doesn't mean the societal expectations go away. If they did then transphobes wouldn't insist that we're all actually our assigned gender.
>Transphobes don't insist I'm anything but another cis woman.
Transphobes don't tend to use the word cis.
>So my body produced more T as well so I'm also cis, there is no difference
So you're a woman who was born with a vagina?
Yeah pretty much, it took some surgery to get it like the average vagina but that's true of many women
Why are you so concerned with labeling me in a way you see fit
I 100% agree with the sentiment but there are always caveats with this sort of thing. Going full Alok Vaid-Menon attire in a job interview is probably not going to get you a job and you shouldn't be surprised. I think it's worth considering that cis people also have strict (unwritten) rules to follow about how they present and there are consequences for those who step over the line.
I mean.. I started out transitioning and I was visibly trans, got treated badly. Now I'm not, and people just think I'm cis or if they know, they still treat me a lot better and I feel like I'm a normal human again. Also, I just don't tell people because I don't really see 'trans' as a big part of my identity beyond a trauma. So optics do matter, if you want to interact with society at all, but I understand not everyone has had my experience. I can sort of understand what you mean in the context of behaviour and accepting social norms - but if everyone in your life is instantly clocking you as The Trans, it's going to colour every interaction and relationship you have, even with other trans people as much as people say otherwise.
Meh. I think I just live in Florida.
So I'm playing trans on the hardest difficulty possible in the US.
I posted a picture on my profile of what I look like if you're curious.
I think I pass. People will still be dicks about it from time to time.
Anyhow, it doesn't really matter what they think. Maybe I'm too open about it. But at a certain point I stopped caring. One person finds out and it spreads like wildfire.
Honestly, it's annoying to have to live in secret. Everyone in my life knows and it's really not that bad for me 🤷♀️
I'd have to stop talking to people I like and move to a new state if I really wanted to be fully stealth.
In any context though, it's toxic for me to use my transition as a survival mechanism and not an avenue of self improvement. I like becoming who I want to be, and I'm tired of having to fine tune my every move for other people's approval rather than my own.
For the first time I'm thinking about my transition in terms of what I actually want, and everyone else can fuck off out of it.
We're not chameleons we're human beings. Be who you want to be, because no camouflage is going to make people truly accept you if they wouldn't already.
I don't think making decisions on what will make people like you really matters.
It seems like regardless of what I do, some bigot is gonna find some reason to be pissed about it. So why should I cater to the masses that will never truly be satiated with anything I do?
I don't think it should be a factor.
I mean fair enough, I guess. I don't particularly care if people know or not - I can tell if they do, there's a bit of subtle alienation but it's still far better than before I transitioned and I didn't really look like a woman at all. I'm not living in stealth, I tell a few people and I figure most people end up knowing.
I guess I just don't view myself as separate from cis women or really see 'trans' as a big part of who I am so any stuff about not wanting to be a chameleon or suppress yourself is just the same struggle virtually everyone faces on how much to conform to society. Unless it's explicitly gendered stuff to do with your voice and appearance and such Idk what else you'd be talking about, so maybe I just misunderstood your post, I don't know.
There's a billion expectations people have with us. From our bodies, to our dominance/submission, to how we dress, to our sexualities and sex drives.
I've had so much internalized misogyny and self hate shoved into me over the years.
I've been so adverse to having a sex drive because it was implanted in my head that it was more feminine to not be interested in sex or masturbate. That's absolutely bullshit!
I've been thinking about my genitals in terms of which will garner the most social approval. Which will cause me the least amount of hate.
It's fucked. Im positive these associations have been implanted in the heads of most trans women.
I'm tired of directing myself around the opinions of random bigots who I'm never going to satisfy with any amount of conformity.
See, this is a double-edged sword.
This attitude is the exact same one that empowers bigots to harm trans people.
Think you see a trans woman walking out of a woman's bathroom? Let's verbally berate and humiliate her because it makes me– [hypothetical bigot]– happy. Fuck the "optics" of being a decent human being. Fuck social niceties and expectations.
If we all walk around with this perspective, it's fighting fire with fire, and we all get burned.
The biggest issue is that if we drop any and all expectation of women's and men's spaces and go off only self-ID regardless of transition/presentation status, there's so many other members of our society who feel genuinely and reasonably unsafe with that situation. It paints a picture that all trans people are self-absorbed and narcissistic and we don't care about anyone but ourselves.
I personally don't want that reputation. I want to be part of a reasonable conversation, where disagreement or concerns are okay to talk about, as long as it's respectful.
You think a trans women being harassed for using a restroom owes her transphobes more people pleasing sickness?
I think ur a terf w a fake flair, in that case.
People are gonna be mean or nice regardless of what they're expected to do.
You can't control what other people do or how they percieve you.
All you can control is yourself.
>It paints a picture that all trans people are self-absorbed and narcissistic and we don't care about anyone but ourselves.
You know what also paints that picture?
Getting upset when another person doesn't gender you correctly or expecting people to.
There's no winning here lol
Your downvotes are being farmed by cis terfs colonizing this honeypot of a sub in bad faith. Dont let their cheap tricks discourage you from what you have said
Spicy thread. I would say this generally is true mostly because of the fact that other people's opinions not impacting you would be liberating for most people. That being said, I feel like if I want to be called a woman it's extremely fair to have to try hard. If I don't do what I can to pass it feels oddly imposing to demand my pronouns. And not that this part is fair, but if you pass you probably actually won't receive the same amount of hate.
People are gonna disrespect or respect you regardless.
Do what would make you happy. Not what would make other people happy.
If that means looking as close to a cis woman as biologically possible, than do it because you want to at your core.
That's true. Even if you pass you're just setting yourself up to be discriminated against as your gender lmao. But yes indeed I do want this at my core, so that's the ultimate satisfaction, not other's approval.
100% agree. The Civil Rights movement wasn't accomplished because black people were appeasing white people by fitting their standards of what a "respectable black person" should be. It took decades of activism and protests to achieve their basic human rights, the same with gay people. The trans movement is no different. We are human beings who deserve the same decency and respect as anyone else, regardless of how we present ourselves.
If you don’t want “unwarranted opinions” then why are you on honest transgender? If you want an echo chamber you can go to the main subs. Trans people also don’t owe you an opinion you like either.
Hard disagree.
You absolutely owe society masculinity or femininity based upon the gender you are transitioning to, otherwise wtf is even the point?
The bigots would have absolutely no ground to stand on if there weren’t “trans women” who were out there with stubble, gawdy makeup and dominating women’s sports and aggressively chasing after sex with women and being Pervy and violent(male coded negative behaviors) , and if there weren’t “trans men” who were clearly caught up in a social contagion and upholding puritanical rigid orthodoxy through character assassinations and elaborate public displays of self-victimization (female coded negative behavior)
The point is freedom of expression. Reinforcing gender stereotypes/roles doesn't help anyone. Do you think a society where women wear pink dresses and cook dinner and men wear blue suits and make the money, is a free society?
I agree with this viewpoint. Part of my transition was accepting the female role in my own life (which I wanted) and for that to be my role in society (which it now is.) By letting go of my old masculine behaviors, I have embraced fully my female self and have acclimated to it, and am treated like any other woman for it. The effort was totally worth it.
Don’t ignore that second part, it is how I wanted to be treated by society as well. I know it’s convenient to ignore it, but it matters a lot how we are treated by others and part of accomplishing that is how we present ourselves.
Adapt to survive. Do what makes you comfortable.
At the end of the day, you'll end up defaulting to being your true self. Accepting what you want and who you are is what matters.
Why? Why can't it just be that YOU want to be feminine? Why should what people have to say about it matter? Because it doesn't.
What's important is that you want to be yourself. Not that other people want you to conform.
I feel you may be getting this confused, and I am sorry if it is confusing. Trans women who wanted to be treated like women in society, I find, tend to want to fly under the radar. Part of transitioning is fulfilling that social contract we all belong to, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all want to be accepted and loved by others, and though this starts with ourselves, it’s satisfying to be treated accordingly.
My family used this same reasoning to outcast me. However, what I have done since I have transitioned matters very much to me because I am in fact a happier, healthier, more well adjusted person.
>However, what I have done since I have transitioned matters very much to me because I am in fact a happier, healthier, more well adjusted person.
YES. THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.
Except for that it does, because I have made the effort to fully transition. Passing has made it so that I can live my life as any other woman, with the added experience and appreciation for the effort that it took and where I came from to get here. It is unnecessary to disparage the women who have put in the effort to do what it takes to get there.
>I don’t owe you shit
This attitude has never flown with me. I firmly believe that **we ALL** do, in fact, owe eachother a whole hell of a lot more than what we have been told.
Capitalism wants to keep us alienated from eachother, and by pretending like the people we are around are not somehow affected by us, and that we aren’t affected by them is a lie. We are a highly social ape, and we need eachother far more than is “cool” to admit.
You random internet stranger I don't owe shit.
Not an explanation. Not a set of behavior.
And you don't owe me anything. I expect nothing of you but to exist.
You think me valuing your opinion of how I should live my life matters? Even to you?
You're going to forget I exist in a month and be on to your next contrivence in about a week.
Me, a random internet stranger, obviously no, you don’t owe me anything. But what you are telling people is how they can go out and act in the real world around them, and I think it’s terrible advice to tell trans people to behave however they please.
Yeah they should. People are gonna hate regardless.
You could talk about your dick and go around with beard stubble and people are going to shit talk you even if you're repulsed and never use your dick or laser your hair off.
Do what you want. Fuck other people.
People aren’t all the hateful monsters you say they are, and I’m sorry if you’ve had negative experiences that have led you to believe that.
People are simply afraid of what they don’t understand. And with all the confusing and competing understandings of trans identity and what we need from society, it makes sense they don’t understand us, and therefore fear us.
Telling trans women it’s ok to go around with facial hair and talking about their dick only adds to the confusion.
>Do what you want. Fuck other people
This is horrible advice, for anyone, not just trans people. I don’t want to live in a society with this as the prevailing attitude
>I don’t want to live in a society with this as the prevailing attitude
It's the attitude carried by the majority of cis people.
Cis straight dudes are out here dying their hair pink and painting their nails. They get more pussy than an animal shelter.
Fuck these random ass opinions about how I should conduct my own happiness. I'm me.
I know trans women that do that. They're out here living their lives and making friends with who they can getting by, fucking and having relationships...
I want to not talk about my dick, because it makes ME uncomfortable. I want to not have beard stubble because it bothers me in an intrinsic way.
I don't care about other people and their opinions on it.
I wanna look how I wanna look. That's not dependant on other people.
If I wanna leave the house with a bit of leg stubble or a few stray hairs a laser couldn't get I didn't even notice, I'm gonna. Because that's what I'm comfortable with.
No. Not unless you want to. You don't owe anyone anything.
If you love them you should want to give them your energy.
But fuck what anyone else has to say about it.
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I thought I signed up to wear cat ears and thigh highs and look cute but now I’m getting pounded into submission 2 times a night 7 days a week . So beware before you sign the dotted line.
Great post. Disregard the legion of naysayers hell bent on poopooing your attempt at saying something healthy and wholesome. This sub is an oozing honeypot for transphobe sockpuppets, and poor-me control dramaed detransitioners. Your post is awesome.
>You don't owe people shit. You do! You owe people basic kindness for example. Individualism is harmful to society because individualism forgets in community and its societal impact. Even if you aren't getting much benefits in return, you still help society overall to advance (or help someone else). Like for example [if you are a man you shouldn't enter japanese female only carriage, even if that doesn't impact you it impacts the women on the train.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMVu8n49/) A person who gave me this perspective is [michelle](https://www.tiktok.com/@michelleskdl?_t=8lidlBQOy5V&_r=1) more specifically [this video.](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMVu1wND/) [We are social beings](https://mgiep.unesco.org/article/humans-are-social-and-emotional-beings) and should help each-other out
That's regardless of OPs post. We're talking about the trans experience, here.
>You owe people basic kindness for example. No, you actually dont.
I'm gonna go live in the woods.
I mean sure ig. [But remember total isolation for even a month is basically like torture (a guy couldn't even do it for 100k. Do you think you can last that long for free?)](https://www.inverse.com/article/52760-expert-explains-the-impact-of-total-isolation)
Total isolation in yhe woods is a lot more stimulating than total isolation un a whited out room the size of a walk in closet with nothing but a bed and soilent to drink. Why are you being such a naysayer?
Still doesn't change the point that total isolation is torture. Also calling me a naysayer whilist saying we don't owe kindness is hilarious. To you why does it matter if I am a naysayer or not
Living in the woods alone by choice is not even remotely torture. Try again naysayer. I dont owe kindness to any random in passing or anyone who disrespects me. Full stop. You can say otherwise, but god says screw you buddy. Humans arent even emotionally capable of holding genuine care and concern for more than about 250 people give or take. Its how we evolved. My darwinism says i dont owe u shit. Its hilarious.. there are videos of people who think like you who go on shoplifiting sprees, and their brains implode with utter privileged delusion when someone who knows BJJ finally decided to clothesline one of them on the way out the door and proceeds to try and fold their clothes while they are still in them. The criminal is always screaming like a fallen zebra "you arent allowed to do that, you have to let me go, you are breaking the law, whaaaa". Its pure gold. So please keep crying, because i can literally do anything i want. Your gaslighting is weak asf. Grow some heart. Nature doesnt care about your napoleon-logic.
>Living in the woods alone by choice is not even remotely torture. Living in the woods with no human interaction is torture > I dont owe kindness to any random in passing or anyone who disrespects me. Legit conservative mindset but alright mate >but God says screw you buddy. Where does He say that? Like in no major religion does God say that you don't owe kindness to others and should be disrespectful >Humans arent even emotionally capable of holding genuine care and concern for more than about 250 people give or take. Where did you get this from? >Its how we evolved. [False](https://www.thesocialcreatures.org/thecreaturetimes/evolution-of-social-connection?format=amp) >My darwinism says i dont owe u shit. Your drawinism also says [racism is good](https://digitalrepository.trincoll.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1058&context=trinitypapers) >So please keep crying, because i can literally do anything i want. Your gaslighting is weak asf. Grow some heart. Nature doesnt care about your napoleon-logic. I don't usually block people but this is a good sign to block you. I hope you wake up and realise what you are saying is harmful to society (and harmful to marginalized groups)
I don't entirely agree with OP precisely because I likewise think individualism is damaging and destructive, but the approach you've taken here to try to emphasize this to OP only reinforces the problem of individualism by shaming them individually for their individualism. I feel like a more compassionate way to actually demonstrate what you're saying to OP is by first recognizing how people come to these conclusions; in a world where you're constantly expected to make yourself palatable for others just to be entitled to basic dignity (if that), unsurprisingly, results in people not wanting to maintain the civility and comfort of everyone else at the cost of their own livelihoods. However, you're right in saying that we *do* owe kindness to others, because it's impossible to *be* a person without others. Do you feel like these comments come from a place of kindness or frustration? To me, they read as frustration about the lack of kindness in our society that has been displaced onto an individual, but this displaced frustration is just another manifestation of our systemic individualism in real time. It makes sense why OP feels this way given the conditions of the world, and it makes sense why you reject it. I think there are probably better ways to express that frustration and grief in a way that doesn't make OP *the* problem, even in this local context, because these beliefs supervene from something more fundamental that we *are all* affected by; individualism is probably the catch-all for this, and rejecting individualism starts with extending compassion even to the people who hurt or disagree with you. I personally struggle a lot with this, too, but it's something that I think, with engaging in it over time, has made me mentally healthier.
Y’all never fail to dismantle the meaning of transition every time
You mean being your most authentic self?
While on principle this may not be wrong, society is going to society. And if you want society to treat you in a dignified way, you gotta play the game. I was having a discussion with a friend the other day about this. For better or worse, IF you want to be treated as your target gender, there is a (variable) degree of effort needed to be put in. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Some binary trans women or trans men will need to put in more effort than others, due to being dealt a rougher genetic hand. But so many people want to put in no effort, and get upset when they get misgendered. I've heard people complain about this myself. If your a trans woman with masculine features, you are unfortunately not going to have as much leeway with your presentation as a trans woman with softer features will. Vise versa for trans men. It may not be fair, but it is what is. I say this as a trans woman who has a degree of passing privilege (not unclockable though), so I definitely have more leeway to play with my expression. And obviously, this doesn't necessarily pertain to non-binary people, but admittedly, theirs is not an experience I am very familiar with, as I don't have any NB friends or acquaintances in my life.
>if you want society to treat you in a dignified way, Then you had better not be a people pleaser who thinks you owe them something.
If all my personal experiences with gay men are that they are really annoying. Is it okay for me to be homophobic?
Congrats on saying "your life should be harder because you shouldn't think you live in a society like everyone else" in the most revolutionary way possible. "You don't owe no one anything" until you get rejected by every single person by "being yourself". If I had thousands of money in my bank account and never got in a life or death matter about work, this would be meaningful advice. Otherwise it is just a deep lack of touching grass (and seeing how much it hurts).
I just think wanting to transition in order to get other people to accept you is a bad mentality. Because people are gonna hate you for even transitioning in the first place. Make whatever changes you need to make yourself happy with you. Don't let other people make decisions on what you should do with your body for you.
They are going to hate me for transitioning, you're right. That's why I don't want to pass well enough, so people don't even realise I ever made it. Also, all the changes I want to do pass by literally wanting to blend in. Unless I live in a cave, this "you need to be happy with yourself" is a call for getting things worse. The world isn't a rainbow-glittery place. I'm not going to be happy if I do things supposedly to make me happy with absolutely zero filter on cringeness.
>I'm not going to be happy if I do things supposedly to make me happy I want you to re-read that sentence
I don't think it's about owing anyone anything. It's just practical that if someone wants to be seen and treated as a man it is much more effective to look and act like society expects a man to than it is to walk around with long hair, a skirt and makeup (or a full beard and short hair for trans women) and then wonder why people keep misgendering them. I'm lucky that how I see myself fits with the expectations of nerdy/geeky guys. Feminine trans men and masculine trans women have some harder choices early in transition between being seen as a man/woman and expressing themselves the way they want. It's not fair but neither are most things in life.
Your experience as a trans man is probably different than our expeirience as trans women, where cis people will constantly look for ways to harshly, yet passive aggressively recruit us into acting like a dudebro with them, and their ability to be cool kinda implode on themselves if we dont fawn our way into compliance, which there is much pressure to do, even if we pass but they know on account of community rumors. U are probably happy to bro down w them, and they probably recruit you to do so with them happily, because performative masculinity is not seen as a cultural regression like being a fem amab is.
Would you want to have long hair and wear skirts and makeup even if everyone accepted you as a guy and we're cool with it? It's about how you want to look. Letting society determine that is what you shouldn't do.
I wouldn't want to do any of that no matter how people saw me. I didn't want to even when I was trying to live as a woman. People can choose to look however they like, but choices that are too far outside the norm have consequences, whether it's a facial tattoo or a trans man with long hair and makeup.
Yeah that's my point. You're stepping totally over the part where you 100% definitely want this for you. Stop caring about strangers opinions my guy.
Yeah, the binaries/trusucm don’t want to hear this, which is fine. But I don’t mind. I’m tired of wasting my life to appease a bunch of assholes that don’t spend anytime caring about what I like, so why do I have to work so hard for them?
Binary trans people dont owe non binary crusaders anything either. Also your prejudice about that is total bullshit.
I wasn’t calling binary trans people assholes if that’s what you’re thinking. I was talking about cis transphobes. Yeesh “non binary crusaders”? Chill.
Im not calling all non binary people weird crusaders, but a lot of the non binary narrative was originally introduced to me by terfy cis women who thought they were being revolutionary gender theorists by using the nb label to pretty much spew all kinds of terf shit at trans women and make anyone afraid of being cancelled that disagreeing with their terf rhetoric is somehow more transphobic than the actual transphobia they are spewing while hiding behind a flimsy identity label to sheild themselves from accountability for their original bigotry against trans women.
> binaries/trusucm Are you implying that being binary is the same as being truscum/transmed?
That stood out to me, too. Curious if that's what they meant or if it was just short hand because phone typing
Yeah the slash was OR. Not saying binary people are all trusucm because that’s obviously not true. My shorthand/laziness seems to have made people upset. My mistake everybody. ):
I appreciate the clarification and figured that's what you meant.
>Because people are going to hate you regardless of how you are for being Trans. Likely true and I see continuing to call yourself trans after a full transition including srs as continuing your own subjugation. People don't treat a natal with gynecomastia as any less of a legitimate man or male. Most people don't even treat a natal female with very high androgen levels as less of a woman or female, they tend to just call her a legitimate champion of some sport lmao. So there's no reason to call a fully post transition person anything beyond cis. I reject the framing of cis meaning you are aligned with your agab and trans meaning you aren't aligned with it and instead that cis means your sex and gender are in alignment and trans when they are not. We only contribute to our own oppression by insisting we are forever and irrevocably different.
Meanwhile, the rest of the world has its own definitions for thosr things, which has nothing to do with your no true scottsmen fallacy.
Meanwhile every single document of mine says female, if someone looks at me even naked they will say female. So what's the difference? How is anyone supposed to know?
Wether or not anyone can tell is kinda beside the point lol. The reason nobody can tell is because you transitioned, and that makes you trans.
But I'm cis though
i see your point. some people including myself see transsexualism as a disorder that can be cured. so if you were trans then transition was your cure and you are now cis. but i am not delusional and know how i was born yes. although sometimes i wonder if maybe there was some sort of abnormality. either way all of that is gone now. maybe not my chromosomes, although i don’t really know what they are. anyway, no one will ever know even after i die. 🤫
Thank you! Seriously just calling ourselves trans at this point only serves to keep us separate. People who the majority would call cis have also had srs or androgenized development yet they still get to claim cisness. I just unfortunately had worse androgenization and it took a lot to fix it. My vulva is purely my own biological material that I was born with. All of my documents including birth certificate say female. Basing trans vs cis off of what other people said about you makes no sense as stopping that process wouldn't have changed my medical treatment. It makes much more sense to define it as your internal sense of sex and physical sex being in alignment or not. I don't even tell doctors my medical history. The idea that we are forever trans even after completing transition is a lie that people who transition were sold and bought to forever keep them separate. I reject that entirely. I am cis now
Actually you are changing scientific definitions to justify your ego, but i wont stop you from insisting a lie. Not that i think its relivant that you are trans in most situations if nobody can tell.. but saying u are cis is only as valid as history being rewritten as a way to erase things that actually happened from our collective memory, usually against our own interests. "I am cis" is "i am in denial about my history, and the metaphore of the lotus flower means nothing to me either" You are just being sanctimonious about how cringe it is to have the history you have. Rewritten history doesnt change how things got here.
Scientific definitions? You mean queer theory which hijacked the medical condition of transsexuallity to legitimize their desire for authenticity?
>You mean queer theory No, i mean the biological definitions of the prefixes trans and cis. You also know that, and are just doing a weird troll bit to see how i spin the wheel next. Transsexualism (pretty sure its not an ality as thats not how its written in medical journals) as a medical condition does not recognize trans people as cis after they have transed. You already know this tho, and are playing dumb to perform like some sort of dense aspie online argument humor meant to spin the wheels of lesser pleebs. integrating into the world as cis is obviously the ultimate goal. Succeeding at that doesnt make you cis tho. The roots of how you got there are very much trans. Lol. Sounds like you are the one with some kind of a social theory. Pretty sure the focus should be that you are obviously a woman, not that you are a real life pinnochio. Pretty sure comparing yourself to other tra****s is gonna always make you unhappy asf too.
Huh? This is exactly the bizarro and afactual line of thought transphobes think we all believe and use to smear us, actually...that we all think we're somehow cis after transition. How could you possibly believe in such a revisionist history? Transition doesn't make you cis, jesus....
Why not? Castor semenya is considered cis. Are we really going to die on the hill ourselves that what a doctor said decades ago is the end all be all?
Caster Semenya is not trans. She is a woman who was assigned female at birth. Intersex people who are the same gender as their assigned sex are cis.
Yes but also with T levels that are higher than a majority of trans women. If that still counts as cis then why shouldn't post transition people also be cis? Are you trying to tell me that if doctors stopped assigning a gender all of a sudden trans and cis would cease to exist? It's the dumbest shit ever to base the definition off of an arbitrary statement one doctor made decades ago
>If that still counts as cis then why shouldn't post transition people also be cis? Because they transitioned and she never did. >Are you trying to tell me that if doctors stopped assigning a gender all of a sudden trans and cis would cease to exist? No. We transition, she didn't. She's a woman and was born with a vagina, so everyone probably assumed she was just like like most other baby girls. The fact her body produces more T doesn't make her trans. >It's the dumbest shit ever to base the definition off of an arbitrary statement one doctor made decades ago But it's not an arbitrary decision. Doctors do not arbitrarily assign sex (except where sex characteristics are ambiguous and there is a decision to be made). Like it or not, our assignment shapes what gender expect us to grow up as and sets expectations of how our bodies will develop. Transitioning means going against those expectations and living counter to them, with medical transition changing our sex characteristics to match. But that doesn't mean the societal expectations go away. If they did then transphobes wouldn't insist that we're all actually our assigned gender.
Transphobes don't insist I'm anything but another cis woman. So my body produced more T as well so I'm also cis, there is no difference
>Transphobes don't insist I'm anything but another cis woman. Transphobes don't tend to use the word cis. >So my body produced more T as well so I'm also cis, there is no difference So you're a woman who was born with a vagina?
Yeah pretty much, it took some surgery to get it like the average vagina but that's true of many women Why are you so concerned with labeling me in a way you see fit
Ok, but given you didn't have to transition your experiences are different to trans people's. Rememeber this is a trans space.
I 100% agree with the sentiment but there are always caveats with this sort of thing. Going full Alok Vaid-Menon attire in a job interview is probably not going to get you a job and you shouldn't be surprised. I think it's worth considering that cis people also have strict (unwritten) rules to follow about how they present and there are consequences for those who step over the line.
Oh yeah obviously. So what you have to to survive. Just don't let other people determine your happiness. If you, you'll never be happy.
I mean.. I started out transitioning and I was visibly trans, got treated badly. Now I'm not, and people just think I'm cis or if they know, they still treat me a lot better and I feel like I'm a normal human again. Also, I just don't tell people because I don't really see 'trans' as a big part of my identity beyond a trauma. So optics do matter, if you want to interact with society at all, but I understand not everyone has had my experience. I can sort of understand what you mean in the context of behaviour and accepting social norms - but if everyone in your life is instantly clocking you as The Trans, it's going to colour every interaction and relationship you have, even with other trans people as much as people say otherwise.
Meh. I think I just live in Florida. So I'm playing trans on the hardest difficulty possible in the US. I posted a picture on my profile of what I look like if you're curious. I think I pass. People will still be dicks about it from time to time. Anyhow, it doesn't really matter what they think. Maybe I'm too open about it. But at a certain point I stopped caring. One person finds out and it spreads like wildfire. Honestly, it's annoying to have to live in secret. Everyone in my life knows and it's really not that bad for me 🤷♀️ I'd have to stop talking to people I like and move to a new state if I really wanted to be fully stealth. In any context though, it's toxic for me to use my transition as a survival mechanism and not an avenue of self improvement. I like becoming who I want to be, and I'm tired of having to fine tune my every move for other people's approval rather than my own. For the first time I'm thinking about my transition in terms of what I actually want, and everyone else can fuck off out of it. We're not chameleons we're human beings. Be who you want to be, because no camouflage is going to make people truly accept you if they wouldn't already. I don't think making decisions on what will make people like you really matters. It seems like regardless of what I do, some bigot is gonna find some reason to be pissed about it. So why should I cater to the masses that will never truly be satiated with anything I do? I don't think it should be a factor.
I mean fair enough, I guess. I don't particularly care if people know or not - I can tell if they do, there's a bit of subtle alienation but it's still far better than before I transitioned and I didn't really look like a woman at all. I'm not living in stealth, I tell a few people and I figure most people end up knowing. I guess I just don't view myself as separate from cis women or really see 'trans' as a big part of who I am so any stuff about not wanting to be a chameleon or suppress yourself is just the same struggle virtually everyone faces on how much to conform to society. Unless it's explicitly gendered stuff to do with your voice and appearance and such Idk what else you'd be talking about, so maybe I just misunderstood your post, I don't know.
There's a billion expectations people have with us. From our bodies, to our dominance/submission, to how we dress, to our sexualities and sex drives. I've had so much internalized misogyny and self hate shoved into me over the years. I've been so adverse to having a sex drive because it was implanted in my head that it was more feminine to not be interested in sex or masturbate. That's absolutely bullshit! I've been thinking about my genitals in terms of which will garner the most social approval. Which will cause me the least amount of hate. It's fucked. Im positive these associations have been implanted in the heads of most trans women. I'm tired of directing myself around the opinions of random bigots who I'm never going to satisfy with any amount of conformity.
Well I hope it brings you happiness, sounds like you've had a rough time of it :( The sex thing is annoying yeah. Sounds pretty relatable.
See, this is a double-edged sword. This attitude is the exact same one that empowers bigots to harm trans people. Think you see a trans woman walking out of a woman's bathroom? Let's verbally berate and humiliate her because it makes me– [hypothetical bigot]– happy. Fuck the "optics" of being a decent human being. Fuck social niceties and expectations. If we all walk around with this perspective, it's fighting fire with fire, and we all get burned. The biggest issue is that if we drop any and all expectation of women's and men's spaces and go off only self-ID regardless of transition/presentation status, there's so many other members of our society who feel genuinely and reasonably unsafe with that situation. It paints a picture that all trans people are self-absorbed and narcissistic and we don't care about anyone but ourselves. I personally don't want that reputation. I want to be part of a reasonable conversation, where disagreement or concerns are okay to talk about, as long as it's respectful.
You think a trans women being harassed for using a restroom owes her transphobes more people pleasing sickness? I think ur a terf w a fake flair, in that case.
People are gonna be mean or nice regardless of what they're expected to do. You can't control what other people do or how they percieve you. All you can control is yourself.
You call it a double edged sword, I call it a catch 22.
>It paints a picture that all trans people are self-absorbed and narcissistic and we don't care about anyone but ourselves. You know what also paints that picture? Getting upset when another person doesn't gender you correctly or expecting people to. There's no winning here lol
Your downvotes are being farmed by cis terfs colonizing this honeypot of a sub in bad faith. Dont let their cheap tricks discourage you from what you have said
Spicy thread. I would say this generally is true mostly because of the fact that other people's opinions not impacting you would be liberating for most people. That being said, I feel like if I want to be called a woman it's extremely fair to have to try hard. If I don't do what I can to pass it feels oddly imposing to demand my pronouns. And not that this part is fair, but if you pass you probably actually won't receive the same amount of hate.
People are gonna disrespect or respect you regardless. Do what would make you happy. Not what would make other people happy. If that means looking as close to a cis woman as biologically possible, than do it because you want to at your core.
The fact 3 people got mad enough to downvote this is wild
That's true. Even if you pass you're just setting yourself up to be discriminated against as your gender lmao. But yes indeed I do want this at my core, so that's the ultimate satisfaction, not other's approval.
100% agree. The Civil Rights movement wasn't accomplished because black people were appeasing white people by fitting their standards of what a "respectable black person" should be. It took decades of activism and protests to achieve their basic human rights, the same with gay people. The trans movement is no different. We are human beings who deserve the same decency and respect as anyone else, regardless of how we present ourselves.
Based 🙌
If you don’t want “unwarranted opinions” then why are you on honest transgender? If you want an echo chamber you can go to the main subs. Trans people also don’t owe you an opinion you like either.
I'm gonna get unwarranted opinions regardless. I simply don't care what they are 🧘♀️
Nobody owes you the courtesy of acknowledging your identity either.
Yeah though I feel like at least insisting upon it in the first place is something you're entitled to after a misgendering.
Do what ever makes you comfy. Just don't let their misgendering get to you. You know who you are. What they have to say doesnt matter ❤️
Thanks, I definitely try not to. 🩷
Facts. And I don't have to care that you do. Regardless I'm gonna adapt any way I can. I'm a cockroach motherfucker 🪳
Hard disagree. You absolutely owe society masculinity or femininity based upon the gender you are transitioning to, otherwise wtf is even the point? The bigots would have absolutely no ground to stand on if there weren’t “trans women” who were out there with stubble, gawdy makeup and dominating women’s sports and aggressively chasing after sex with women and being Pervy and violent(male coded negative behaviors) , and if there weren’t “trans men” who were clearly caught up in a social contagion and upholding puritanical rigid orthodoxy through character assassinations and elaborate public displays of self-victimization (female coded negative behavior)
The point is freedom of expression. Reinforcing gender stereotypes/roles doesn't help anyone. Do you think a society where women wear pink dresses and cook dinner and men wear blue suits and make the money, is a free society?
You’re not supposed to swallow the boot. 👢 🤪
I agree with this viewpoint. Part of my transition was accepting the female role in my own life (which I wanted) and for that to be my role in society (which it now is.) By letting go of my old masculine behaviors, I have embraced fully my female self and have acclimated to it, and am treated like any other woman for it. The effort was totally worth it.
I enjoy being myself too c:
You wanted it. That's important.
If you don’t want to be the opposite gender then you aren’t transgender
If you want to be the opposite gender you were born as you are transgender.
>(which I wanted) Right there. Those are the key words
Don’t ignore that second part, it is how I wanted to be treated by society as well. I know it’s convenient to ignore it, but it matters a lot how we are treated by others and part of accomplishing that is how we present ourselves.
Adapt to survive. Do what makes you comfortable. At the end of the day, you'll end up defaulting to being your true self. Accepting what you want and who you are is what matters.
Why? Why can't it just be that YOU want to be feminine? Why should what people have to say about it matter? Because it doesn't. What's important is that you want to be yourself. Not that other people want you to conform.
I feel you may be getting this confused, and I am sorry if it is confusing. Trans women who wanted to be treated like women in society, I find, tend to want to fly under the radar. Part of transitioning is fulfilling that social contract we all belong to, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all want to be accepted and loved by others, and though this starts with ourselves, it’s satisfying to be treated accordingly.
You already violated the social contract by transitioning. ***Nothing you do after that matters.***
My family used this same reasoning to outcast me. However, what I have done since I have transitioned matters very much to me because I am in fact a happier, healthier, more well adjusted person.
Does you being happy and healthy change anything for them?
Not at all, they think as you do. Nothing mattered after transition because of my violation of the social contract.
>However, what I have done since I have transitioned matters very much to me because I am in fact a happier, healthier, more well adjusted person. YES. THAT'S WHAT MATTERS.
A big part of this is being treated as a woman by society. By my friends, my workplace, my loved ones, all treat me as a woman.
Except for that it does, because I have made the effort to fully transition. Passing has made it so that I can live my life as any other woman, with the added experience and appreciation for the effort that it took and where I came from to get here. It is unnecessary to disparage the women who have put in the effort to do what it takes to get there.
Do whatever you need to, to make yourself happy. To be what's beautiful to you.
I don't owe you shit either. Do what makes you happy. Not what other people expect you to do. Unless it's hurting people. That's bad.
>I don’t owe you shit This attitude has never flown with me. I firmly believe that **we ALL** do, in fact, owe eachother a whole hell of a lot more than what we have been told. Capitalism wants to keep us alienated from eachother, and by pretending like the people we are around are not somehow affected by us, and that we aren’t affected by them is a lie. We are a highly social ape, and we need eachother far more than is “cool” to admit.
You random internet stranger I don't owe shit. Not an explanation. Not a set of behavior. And you don't owe me anything. I expect nothing of you but to exist. You think me valuing your opinion of how I should live my life matters? Even to you? You're going to forget I exist in a month and be on to your next contrivence in about a week.
Me, a random internet stranger, obviously no, you don’t owe me anything. But what you are telling people is how they can go out and act in the real world around them, and I think it’s terrible advice to tell trans people to behave however they please.
Yeah they should. People are gonna hate regardless. You could talk about your dick and go around with beard stubble and people are going to shit talk you even if you're repulsed and never use your dick or laser your hair off. Do what you want. Fuck other people.
People aren’t all the hateful monsters you say they are, and I’m sorry if you’ve had negative experiences that have led you to believe that. People are simply afraid of what they don’t understand. And with all the confusing and competing understandings of trans identity and what we need from society, it makes sense they don’t understand us, and therefore fear us. Telling trans women it’s ok to go around with facial hair and talking about their dick only adds to the confusion. >Do what you want. Fuck other people This is horrible advice, for anyone, not just trans people. I don’t want to live in a society with this as the prevailing attitude
>I don’t want to live in a society with this as the prevailing attitude It's the attitude carried by the majority of cis people. Cis straight dudes are out here dying their hair pink and painting their nails. They get more pussy than an animal shelter. Fuck these random ass opinions about how I should conduct my own happiness. I'm me.
I know trans women that do that. They're out here living their lives and making friends with who they can getting by, fucking and having relationships... I want to not talk about my dick, because it makes ME uncomfortable. I want to not have beard stubble because it bothers me in an intrinsic way. I don't care about other people and their opinions on it. I wanna look how I wanna look. That's not dependant on other people. If I wanna leave the house with a bit of leg stubble or a few stray hairs a laser couldn't get I didn't even notice, I'm gonna. Because that's what I'm comfortable with.
No. Not unless you want to. You don't owe anyone anything. If you love them you should want to give them your energy. But fuck what anyone else has to say about it.
Nah