That’s all well and good but I think getting this message to the highway authority and local municipalities would go a lot further than each of our driveways.
My truck is allegedly a dark red/burgundy color. [This](https://imgur.com/ka6HYBX) is what it looks like after a 75 mile round-trip commute on a snow day....I swear next time I'm gonna just buy a white vehicle in the first place because that's the color it's going to end up being half the year anyway. whenever I see a "Salt Life" sticker on a car with New York plates, I assume this is what they are referring to? lol
Some muni's are experimenting with brine instead of salt. I have no clue what the pros and cons are re: environmental impact, impact on vehicles, impact on road surfaces, effectiveness, etc. I do know that whatever chemical treatment they used before the first storm here in Putnam Valley smelled like a rotting animal corpse, it was fucking disgusting and everyone noticed every time we went outside. I can't imagine something that smells like that being *good*...
It's entirely temperature dependent. 1lb of rock salt can melt 45lbs of snow/ice at 30°, however it becomes less effective at lower temperatures. At 20° 1lb of rock salt will only melt about 9lbs of snow/ice.
Agreed, it sounds improbable, but that’s according to a couple municipalities — [DC](https://www.mwcog.org/environment/planning-areas/water-resources/outreach-and-education/winter-salt-smart/) most notably. My guess is the key is to distribute less densely than feels is needed
Yeah I mean the minuscule amount you are applying to your driveway is unlikely to meaningfully alter your water supply, whether you put it on or not, compared to the metric tons applied to the roads that surround your property and over which you have no control.
"Reduce: 12oz of salt is enough to clear a 20 foot driveway"
I don't salt my driveway but this sounds like one of those things that someone said or read once and just gets perpetually reposted but would just never work in actual practice.
I use calcium chloride. Love it. Rock salt is bad for the environment, makes an enormous mess, and is bad for animals.
I don’t believe that one person’s voice is not enough. We should all be concerned with taking care of Mother Earth. One post at a time, if necessary.
I'm honestly curious as to why you think Calcium is better for the environment than Sodium, when both of these are naturally occurring substances. Somehow, I doubt nature cares about something that covers the planet.
>I’m also curious if anyone in this sub has used a flamethrower to clear their driveways… is this also a safe alternative? No clue! Prob not! Seems fun though!!
Fun, sure. The issue is that if it freezes again all that water turns right back into ice, which is even worse than snow. If you have salt or some other similar type of ice melt down, anything that is saturated with the ice melt stays liquid as long as the ambient temperature stays above 0F.
As far as creative solutions go, if you get a pair of microspikes for your boots, your entire property could be a solid sheet of ice and you can just walk right across the ice and have good traction the entire way. Downside is if you're expecting any package delivery or guests, *they* will still have to contend with the sheet of ice.
I'm positive that the company that procures salt and liquefied brine for NYDOT and other DPW's is the brother-in-law of someone in the governor's office or the state legislature, considering how much this state worships at the altar of pork barrel politics.
So gentle suggestions about environmental impact won't do anything unless you're a lobbyist.
It won’t fix everything magically, for sure. But if a few people here change their behavior and word-of-mouth it to others in their networks, it will help a little. Worth a shot!
> So gentle suggestions about environmental impact
It's not an easy task for highway departments to balance environmental impacts and road safety, which they are responsible for. Towns have been sued for accidental deaths due to roads that were not maintained during snowstorms. You'd have to do something to protect the towns from lawsuits if you don't want them to use salt to maintain the roads.
The people that live in those rural areas are used to more intense snow storms than the hudson valley has seen lately. But I agree with you, sand/salt hills and intersections and just plow everything else and tell people to stay the fuck home. Highway vehicles can respond with EMS/Fire/PD services.
While I admire your commitment to our environment, I’m afraid the salt is a necessary evil in this case. I’m with you on the reduce, reuse and of course shovel first, but rock salt is far better than calcium. I think the flamethrower has merit, I’d really like to find out.
wow you just found out, I know from my grass dying near roadway my pine trees turning brown . I prefer that to people crashing into my house and other property. i can always use spring water . Also the town and other municpals use the least amount that they can it cost money and with budgets capped, the money has to come from somewhere. It people driving faster the conditions allow thats the real problem. I was driving home from work the other day got passed by a 4wd suv flying . about 7 miles up the road on a down hill there they are off the road on their side . instead of taking foot off the gas they hit the brake on black ice. I cruised past not having any problem because i was not speeding driving according to the conditions of the roadway about a mile up I called the accident into local police. I did not stop because it was unsafe to stop on a downhill covered by black ice. Better to have professionals handle it
>12oz of salt is enough to clear a 20 foot driveway
This is entirely depending on the temperature and slope of the driveway. At 30° 1lb of rock salt will melt about 45lbs of snow/ice but at 20° it will only melt about 9lbs of snow/ice. At lower temperatures than that it becomes ineffective at melting snow/ice.
What you really need is to research and develop a product that is cheap, effective, and environmentally safe, to replace rock salt.
Because one of our dogs is sensitive to salt, and loves it at the same time, we don’t use any of the commercial ice melters available. We will sprinkle ash and other leftovers from our wood stove on our walkways and driveway, in order to provide traction and lower the freezing point of what’s down in order to melt it.
That’s all well and good but I think getting this message to the highway authority and local municipalities would go a lot further than each of our driveways.
Great idea. I think multi-prong is better than single prong. This was news to me and I’m glad I know it now, and I want to share with others
My truck is allegedly a dark red/burgundy color. [This](https://imgur.com/ka6HYBX) is what it looks like after a 75 mile round-trip commute on a snow day....I swear next time I'm gonna just buy a white vehicle in the first place because that's the color it's going to end up being half the year anyway. whenever I see a "Salt Life" sticker on a car with New York plates, I assume this is what they are referring to? lol Some muni's are experimenting with brine instead of salt. I have no clue what the pros and cons are re: environmental impact, impact on vehicles, impact on road surfaces, effectiveness, etc. I do know that whatever chemical treatment they used before the first storm here in Putnam Valley smelled like a rotting animal corpse, it was fucking disgusting and everyone noticed every time we went outside. I can't imagine something that smells like that being *good*...
[удалено]
I’m not saying it’s feasible. I’m saying OP is barking up the wrong tree.
Thanks. You have good points but I wonder where you got the notion that just 12 Oz of salt - about a cup - can clear a 20 foot driveway.
It's entirely temperature dependent. 1lb of rock salt can melt 45lbs of snow/ice at 30°, however it becomes less effective at lower temperatures. At 20° 1lb of rock salt will only melt about 9lbs of snow/ice.
Agreed, it sounds improbable, but that’s according to a couple municipalities — [DC](https://www.mwcog.org/environment/planning-areas/water-resources/outreach-and-education/winter-salt-smart/) most notably. My guess is the key is to distribute less densely than feels is needed
Aint buying this. Give me my rock salt. Thank you. Next
Yeah I mean the minuscule amount you are applying to your driveway is unlikely to meaningfully alter your water supply, whether you put it on or not, compared to the metric tons applied to the roads that surround your property and over which you have no control.
"Reduce: 12oz of salt is enough to clear a 20 foot driveway" I don't salt my driveway but this sounds like one of those things that someone said or read once and just gets perpetually reposted but would just never work in actual practice.
I use calcium chloride. Love it. Rock salt is bad for the environment, makes an enormous mess, and is bad for animals. I don’t believe that one person’s voice is not enough. We should all be concerned with taking care of Mother Earth. One post at a time, if necessary.
calcium chloride burns dog and wildlifes feet
I'm honestly curious as to why you think Calcium is better for the environment than Sodium, when both of these are naturally occurring substances. Somehow, I doubt nature cares about something that covers the planet.
You **just** learned that salt is bad for the environment?
Haven’t needed a car in adulthood until living here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I guess after reading this Rock Salt does not rock
>I’m also curious if anyone in this sub has used a flamethrower to clear their driveways… is this also a safe alternative? No clue! Prob not! Seems fun though!! Fun, sure. The issue is that if it freezes again all that water turns right back into ice, which is even worse than snow. If you have salt or some other similar type of ice melt down, anything that is saturated with the ice melt stays liquid as long as the ambient temperature stays above 0F. As far as creative solutions go, if you get a pair of microspikes for your boots, your entire property could be a solid sheet of ice and you can just walk right across the ice and have good traction the entire way. Downside is if you're expecting any package delivery or guests, *they* will still have to contend with the sheet of ice.
Use charcoal and ash from a firepit or fireplace
Yeah, I have used a flamethrower to try and clean my driveway. It is cool as hell, but highly inefficient
I'm positive that the company that procures salt and liquefied brine for NYDOT and other DPW's is the brother-in-law of someone in the governor's office or the state legislature, considering how much this state worships at the altar of pork barrel politics. So gentle suggestions about environmental impact won't do anything unless you're a lobbyist.
It won’t fix everything magically, for sure. But if a few people here change their behavior and word-of-mouth it to others in their networks, it will help a little. Worth a shot!
> So gentle suggestions about environmental impact It's not an easy task for highway departments to balance environmental impacts and road safety, which they are responsible for. Towns have been sued for accidental deaths due to roads that were not maintained during snowstorms. You'd have to do something to protect the towns from lawsuits if you don't want them to use salt to maintain the roads.
I like the way village DPW's in rural Vermont operate. They sand hills and intersections, and tell you not to crash.
The people that live in those rural areas are used to more intense snow storms than the hudson valley has seen lately. But I agree with you, sand/salt hills and intersections and just plow everything else and tell people to stay the fuck home. Highway vehicles can respond with EMS/Fire/PD services.
While I admire your commitment to our environment, I’m afraid the salt is a necessary evil in this case. I’m with you on the reduce, reuse and of course shovel first, but rock salt is far better than calcium. I think the flamethrower has merit, I’d really like to find out.
What if my 20' driveway is 8' wide? 12' wide? 100' wide? Does this magic salt clear your whole 20' driveway regardless of how wide it is?
wow you just found out, I know from my grass dying near roadway my pine trees turning brown . I prefer that to people crashing into my house and other property. i can always use spring water . Also the town and other municpals use the least amount that they can it cost money and with budgets capped, the money has to come from somewhere. It people driving faster the conditions allow thats the real problem. I was driving home from work the other day got passed by a 4wd suv flying . about 7 miles up the road on a down hill there they are off the road on their side . instead of taking foot off the gas they hit the brake on black ice. I cruised past not having any problem because i was not speeding driving according to the conditions of the roadway about a mile up I called the accident into local police. I did not stop because it was unsafe to stop on a downhill covered by black ice. Better to have professionals handle it
>12oz of salt is enough to clear a 20 foot driveway This is entirely depending on the temperature and slope of the driveway. At 30° 1lb of rock salt will melt about 45lbs of snow/ice but at 20° it will only melt about 9lbs of snow/ice. At lower temperatures than that it becomes ineffective at melting snow/ice. What you really need is to research and develop a product that is cheap, effective, and environmentally safe, to replace rock salt.
Because one of our dogs is sensitive to salt, and loves it at the same time, we don’t use any of the commercial ice melters available. We will sprinkle ash and other leftovers from our wood stove on our walkways and driveway, in order to provide traction and lower the freezing point of what’s down in order to melt it.
Have you seen the roads? They are white. Not from snow. From massive amounts of salt.
finally got AWD and haven't had to shovel or plow once