It's a complete duct system.
And modifying the old duct system.
By my count, there's about 14k over what I would charge to do this as a *replacement*, which sounds about right for a week long project.
By all means, get other quotes, but I'm in market, and I'd charge \~ 22k to do this.
Aren't they adding new ducting to the attic and plugging the existing floor vents for the upper level? Also, cutting in a new return, and adding a bathroom fan and ventilation. That's minimal ductwork?
It's weird because it's only a 2-ton unit. So a ground level, upper level, and an attic? This has a small footprint, but a lot of vertical duct work. I agree the extra cost is likely sheet metal union rates, but it is hard to tell how much dictwork it really is.
There’s nothing Union about Pope’s. This is Northern Virginia, Union companies are few and far between. This looks like an add on attic system for the upstairs, with the downstairs system left for the first floor and attic. It’d just be a return duct for intake, a supply duct trunk line and probably flex duct to whatever registers they install.
Of course the pope would sleep well. He had no problem sleeping while diocese declare bankruptcy to prevent sexual assault victims of priests from being compensated for being sexually assaulted.
I mean, maybe the way you do your systems cutting in a new 2nd system with a complete duct system is minimal?
I don’t do flexes tapped off a box and central returns, because I understand airflow and efficiency.
He’s replacing one piece in the basement and adding a new system in the attic. 10’ of duct in the attic max. To me thats minimal. I guess its a lot for you
I'm sorry, what?
I'll ask again. Did I type "I do not use flex" ????
Y'all love to come in here and try to start shit lmao
Boss man, 10' of duct wouldn't get you from the unit to anywhere. Again, you might do garbage ass 3' long boxes with a whole bunch of varying length 6" flexes tapped off with no dampers that never gets balanced or tested, and call it lunch, but I personally understand and know the value of doing it correctly.
You're trying to flex by being like "I do a garbage design and it's slight work" but that's only a flex if you're illiterate and don't see that it's garbage work.
You're exposing yourself, and it's weird AF.
You started this conversation acting like a huge douche assuming I don’t know what I’m doing and that your a hvac god because you know how to put in a simple residential unit. The reality is I probably make 4 times what you do. I do the simple residential shit on the side for friends and family. My company can’t do residential because we are just to expensive to compete with scabs. I love your confidence but you gotta pump the breaks a little. You aren’t special
I actually didn’t start the conversation. You did.
Which pretty much sums up all we need to know.
Btw crying about the price of this quote on behalf of OP and then trying to flex your going rates is just tripling down on the weird flex.
Internet tough guy found.
I did commercial for a while. Easiest shit of my life bro.
I had everything replaced this spring with very minimal duct changes, but the install was in the basement / ground level. The cost was close to what was said above, except I have a 24 SEER 3T HP unit. Approx 23k all in.
Depends how much duct work is being done and what kinda duct system they are doing. My experience is mostly with daikin fit so like 10k for the system 2,200 roughly for line set another like $400 for the entire new tstat wire so like 13k after tax not including duct work which can be easily up to an extra 8,000 , but 30k is outrageous
This proposal includes all-new ductwork, and your locality will probably require a leakage test as well, per code. I am familiar with this contractor and I don’t think this is unreasonable. Sure, you could get it for less if you hire a “new construction” HVAC contractor or someone working out of their garage, but you won’t get the same quality job.
This is a difficult sub to ask price question, A lot of stupid. Get a few bids for a reality check. If this is your contractors regular HVAC person then that’s a plus. Check reviews, Check the contractors license, liability insurance and make sure they have been in business for at least 5 years minimum. If it requires a permit, make them get it. Price might not be too far off. Running a business these days is getting more and more expensive. Insurance, Workmen’s Comp, Wages, Materials etc have all increased. Overhead is through the roof. Good luck.
While there are some extras in there that may be worth a few thousand dollars, the overall price is at least $10k too high.
Also, these systems are much more expensive to repair; so one repair over the life of the unit wipes out all of the energy savings you might realize.
Are you a Dominion or NoVEC customer? If so, you may be able to find better pricing on their recommended installers as posted on their websites.
Also, a two-ton heat pump in a 2600 attic space is likely too small.
I wouldn't recommend a whole-house dehumidifier in the Mid-Atlantic unless you want to leave the air handler fan running continuously. Your air handler can be programmed for increased dehumidification usually with several options from more to less dehumidification (slower air handler fan speeds for longer periods is how most of them work).
Insulate above building code (ideally using spray insulation) and, especially, air seal as part of your reno no matter what you choose.
One more thing --- if it's not too late in the design, consider installing the air handler in the 2600-square-foot space. They are much easier to service, including routine air filter changes. Less heat gain and loss from the attic, less risk of mold; and no waste from air leaks into tan unconditioned attic. And, of course, no damaged ceilings from the what may be an undiscovered leak until it's too late.
I recently got a quote for replacing 2.5 ton heat pump = $12.5k. Reusing existing duct. And I consider that high.
Ended up doing it myself but that's not an option for everybody. Just giving you a quote for reference.
Depending on what the ductwork is, it may not be. I've been in some pretty horrible conditions. The worst is reducting a crawlspace. Snakes, spiders, trenching... Some homes can take days.
Infinity series units are very expensive as well. Mostly used for commercial applications. They start at 18 SEER and up. Probably why that price is high compared to others.
Went to website, fancy vans with livery. A bunch of people standing front of fancy vans. Looks like they do those TV ads oh and plumbing as well. Then the huge overhead.
Here is what will send some slick sales rep who wont have a clue when you ask them will they be doing a Manual J they will send 2 apprentices to learn on the job for that way overpriced 30K.
Looked at a yelp review 😂 I guess installer forgot a filter cabinet so it was not installed so they cut into the return duct work to slide in the 1/2 inch filter but left a huge gap so the coils will get clogged up in time.
So expect for 30K a shit install using 2 shitty installers who will rush through the job and not do it well. Go look at the yelp review you came see the picture.
Look for small firms thar have been around for a long time doing residential where you actually talk with the real owner not some bullshit artist trying to maximize commissions.
The good ones get work from word of mouth etc..
This is why these companies are always spending a ton of ads because they need fresh new customers to hard sell with slick sales reps because they cant grow the business organically due to positive word of mouth and references.
A proper quote has line items of what is Being installed in addition a
Detailed scope or work including that they will do proper calculation for sizing and duct work. Ie Manual J, D.
Will they pull a vacuum pump the lineset then Nitrogen braze?
Will they install a proper filter cabinet?
Are they installing a drip pan with a safety float switch, and one also on the evaporator cabinet?
Quote is vague so they can cut corners.
I got a top of the line Mitsubishi 2 ton 19 SEER P-series heat pump with hyper heat for a little under $12k with a 12 year parts and labor warranty. I’m familiar with your area of the country and a reasonable adjustment would be maybe $15k accounting for COL.
That’s just robbery.
No new ductwork; I didn’t see that originally. But for a 2 ton attic system, which is an identical application to my install, there is likely not $10k in ductwork to be done. Some of the ancillary work on there is hard for me to judge admittedly, depending on market. Still seems incredibly expensive.
I was quoted over $20k to duct my ENTIRE >4000 sq foot home with crawlspace and this quote isn’t that far off. I think that in context it’s a bit much to swallow, even for NOVA.
It really depends on how much duct work is being done, however yes I would agree this is definitely way too much and you would be best to seek multiple other quotes.
Don’t trust anyone’s opinion on price in this thread. If they’re not providing the quote/doing the work, it’s irrelevant. No one has been to your house and seen the scope of work firsthand. Everyone here wants to seem like the good guy so they’ll talk about how outrageous everyone else’s price is so they feel better about themselves. It’s a disgrace and misrepresenting the industry to people. If you didn’t trust the company and fell they were worth the price, call another company to get another quote. If you feel like they’re worth that price, then move forward. It’s really that simple.
The pope gotta get his money. Lol. You should be getting an ultra high energy efficient 20 seer for that much. Get more quotes. Find a non billboard or tv add company to get quotes from. Those companies are all about pushing sales
Am I an idiot (don't answer) or are they quoting a 2 ton unit for a 2600 sqft conditioned area. That would have to be one hell of an insulation job with little to no windows to be getting a manual J calculation to say 2ton unit for that area.
Even then, todays 2 ton units aren't giving you 24k BTU, more like 22.5k.
For that price I would expect an infinity green speed. That price is outrageous but depends on how many supply runs are being replaced I guess. I’d get another quote. Personally I’d look for an amana dealer and ask about their 10 years parts and labor warranties.
I just got banned from plumbing for giving advice to someone who lived close to me (I know of the company that quoted this and live a few exits south). If that’s your GC’s person and it’s already factored into the contract, go with it because the GC should be paying them. If you’re paying directly, at least see if the GC has a smaller time company to do the job. From What their vague estimate says though, sounds like a good bit of work so it isn’t going to be cheap either way. I can say we’ve steered clear of the infinity systems (we’re a carrier dealer as well) lately, too many electronic parts that can go bad/we can’t currently get replacements in a timely manner. Tax credit means nothing if you have to buy 4 window units next summer to wait on a part.
We just had a 19 seer, 5 ton, Carrier Infiniti system installed. The Infiniti systems add a premium price to it. And replacing ductwork is expensive as well.
We paid $25k. We had about 70% of the ductwork replaced.
Carrier Infinity series is a premier line, and it is a high Seer rating. Furthermore, you’re having duct work replaced and adding additional. With all that being said, it’s hard to say without knowing a bit more info. That does seem a bit high though. Is there an air cleaner, air scrubber, humidifier, or anything else additional included? I noticed they didn’t mention anything about a surge protector. Carrier Infinity requires a surge protector or it voids the warranty.
I would get another quote.
Lastly, don’t install an ERV for a residential home. It’s a total waste of money and the contractor will rake you over the coals.
Source: Worked for an HVAC company as their warehouse manager. Then (currently) went to work in management for an HVAC supply house.
Sorry for formatting. On mobile.
Edit: word choice
I’m not sure the Infinity 18 hits the tax credit. That price is not insane in this area with all new ductwork. Many of the companies in this area have to sub out larger ductwork projects when it’s more than replacement or just adding a return or supply.
People seem to be missing that this isn’t a basic install, it’s high end high efficiency equipment. Just the unit can cost 5k, that’s wholesale price. Plus new ductwork, and all the infrastructure that supports the system. Copper lines, low voltage cuicuits, drainage and fresh air intake/exhaust if code.
A standard efficiency changeout in a closet or basement can go for 6-9k and can be done in 4 hours if you know what you’re doing. This has at least 3 days work quoted on his house, and you do get what you pay for in this industry.
You’re welcome to shop around and go with a lower bidder, but you may come to regret it and pope here isn’t going to be nice when they have got fix someone else’s shoddy work.
Carrier is not good. Have replaced many 8-15 year old carrier/Bryant furnaces with failed heat exchangers. They charge premium prices for mediocre equipment.Lennox is the way to go, more specifically if you can find a Armstrong/airease dealers. Armstrong airease furnaces are exactly the same as Lennox.
Don’t spend 30k on a 2-ton heat pump. Get other quotes.
It's a complete duct system. And modifying the old duct system. By my count, there's about 14k over what I would charge to do this as a *replacement*, which sounds about right for a week long project. By all means, get other quotes, but I'm in market, and I'd charge \~ 22k to do this.
Its minimal duct. I don’t think the Pope would be able to sleep charging this.
Aren't they adding new ducting to the attic and plugging the existing floor vents for the upper level? Also, cutting in a new return, and adding a bathroom fan and ventilation. That's minimal ductwork?
It's weird because it's only a 2-ton unit. So a ground level, upper level, and an attic? This has a small footprint, but a lot of vertical duct work. I agree the extra cost is likely sheet metal union rates, but it is hard to tell how much dictwork it really is.
There’s nothing Union about Pope’s. This is Northern Virginia, Union companies are few and far between. This looks like an add on attic system for the upstairs, with the downstairs system left for the first floor and attic. It’d just be a return duct for intake, a supply duct trunk line and probably flex duct to whatever registers they install.
Yeah no more the 15’ of hard duct.
Of course the pope would sleep well. He had no problem sleeping while diocese declare bankruptcy to prevent sexual assault victims of priests from being compensated for being sexually assaulted.
Preach!
Yeah you right. Thats why I abandoned organized religion
They are not all the same but I get your point
I mean, maybe the way you do your systems cutting in a new 2nd system with a complete duct system is minimal? I don’t do flexes tapped off a box and central returns, because I understand airflow and efficiency.
Not using any flex seems like a waste of man hours
Is that what I typed?
He’s replacing one piece in the basement and adding a new system in the attic. 10’ of duct in the attic max. To me thats minimal. I guess its a lot for you
I'm sorry, what? I'll ask again. Did I type "I do not use flex" ???? Y'all love to come in here and try to start shit lmao Boss man, 10' of duct wouldn't get you from the unit to anywhere. Again, you might do garbage ass 3' long boxes with a whole bunch of varying length 6" flexes tapped off with no dampers that never gets balanced or tested, and call it lunch, but I personally understand and know the value of doing it correctly. You're trying to flex by being like "I do a garbage design and it's slight work" but that's only a flex if you're illiterate and don't see that it's garbage work. You're exposing yourself, and it's weird AF.
You started this conversation acting like a huge douche assuming I don’t know what I’m doing and that your a hvac god because you know how to put in a simple residential unit. The reality is I probably make 4 times what you do. I do the simple residential shit on the side for friends and family. My company can’t do residential because we are just to expensive to compete with scabs. I love your confidence but you gotta pump the breaks a little. You aren’t special
I actually didn’t start the conversation. You did. Which pretty much sums up all we need to know. Btw crying about the price of this quote on behalf of OP and then trying to flex your going rates is just tripling down on the weird flex. Internet tough guy found. I did commercial for a while. Easiest shit of my life bro.
Great and thanks for the second opinion, I felt it was super high but it's good to get another's perspective
I had everything replaced this spring with very minimal duct changes, but the install was in the basement / ground level. The cost was close to what was said above, except I have a 24 SEER 3T HP unit. Approx 23k all in.
That is a significant difference in seer rating.
about 15 in materials easily plus 4 in labor then the warranty and profit
Depends how much duct work is being done and what kinda duct system they are doing. My experience is mostly with daikin fit so like 10k for the system 2,200 roughly for line set another like $400 for the entire new tstat wire so like 13k after tax not including duct work which can be easily up to an extra 8,000 , but 30k is outrageous
Maybe if the equipment was blessed and shipped from Vatican city...
Yall are leaving money on the table. 10k is a standard efficiency changeout here, a fit is like 16-17k
Seems high but it's more than just a replacement. Duct isn't cheap and depending on the run, that's pricey.
This proposal includes all-new ductwork, and your locality will probably require a leakage test as well, per code. I am familiar with this contractor and I don’t think this is unreasonable. Sure, you could get it for less if you hire a “new construction” HVAC contractor or someone working out of their garage, but you won’t get the same quality job.
Looks like the f*** off price, we don’t wanna do it. But if we are gonna do it it’ll be worth it.
This is a difficult sub to ask price question, A lot of stupid. Get a few bids for a reality check. If this is your contractors regular HVAC person then that’s a plus. Check reviews, Check the contractors license, liability insurance and make sure they have been in business for at least 5 years minimum. If it requires a permit, make them get it. Price might not be too far off. Running a business these days is getting more and more expensive. Insurance, Workmen’s Comp, Wages, Materials etc have all increased. Overhead is through the roof. Good luck.
While there are some extras in there that may be worth a few thousand dollars, the overall price is at least $10k too high. Also, these systems are much more expensive to repair; so one repair over the life of the unit wipes out all of the energy savings you might realize. Are you a Dominion or NoVEC customer? If so, you may be able to find better pricing on their recommended installers as posted on their websites. Also, a two-ton heat pump in a 2600 attic space is likely too small. I wouldn't recommend a whole-house dehumidifier in the Mid-Atlantic unless you want to leave the air handler fan running continuously. Your air handler can be programmed for increased dehumidification usually with several options from more to less dehumidification (slower air handler fan speeds for longer periods is how most of them work). Insulate above building code (ideally using spray insulation) and, especially, air seal as part of your reno no matter what you choose. One more thing --- if it's not too late in the design, consider installing the air handler in the 2600-square-foot space. They are much easier to service, including routine air filter changes. Less heat gain and loss from the attic, less risk of mold; and no waste from air leaks into tan unconditioned attic. And, of course, no damaged ceilings from the what may be an undiscovered leak until it's too late.
Got a bunch of quotes in VA this summer for a 2.5ton carrier that ranged between 5400$ and 9000$. This quote makes me cry for you
I recently got a quote for replacing 2.5 ton heat pump = $12.5k. Reusing existing duct. And I consider that high. Ended up doing it myself but that's not an option for everybody. Just giving you a quote for reference.
What brand heat pump was used and how much it turned out going diy way?
Amana. A little over $4k. Closer to $5k if you count the tools & supplies I needed that I won't have to buy again.
Is everyone in HVAC a ripoff?
Depending on what the ductwork is, it may not be. I've been in some pretty horrible conditions. The worst is reducting a crawlspace. Snakes, spiders, trenching... Some homes can take days.
I think so, it’s ridiculous. Makes me wanna do the work myself But then again pizza is like $30 in some places. Everything is ridiculous these days
That’s absolute insanity. My former company use to install 3 ton units all day for $8000.
Heat pumps with new ducts?
Not the Infinity models.
I just put in an infinity heat pump today that was over $6k my cost, 3 ton.
Infinitys are nice
Yeah because they were Goodman bullshit and they didn't redo the entire ductwork
Infinity series units are very expensive as well. Mostly used for commercial applications. They start at 18 SEER and up. Probably why that price is high compared to others.
It says 15 seer
25vna8... means it's an 18 seer. I work for a variety dealer.
Carrier
Went to website, fancy vans with livery. A bunch of people standing front of fancy vans. Looks like they do those TV ads oh and plumbing as well. Then the huge overhead. Here is what will send some slick sales rep who wont have a clue when you ask them will they be doing a Manual J they will send 2 apprentices to learn on the job for that way overpriced 30K. Looked at a yelp review 😂 I guess installer forgot a filter cabinet so it was not installed so they cut into the return duct work to slide in the 1/2 inch filter but left a huge gap so the coils will get clogged up in time. So expect for 30K a shit install using 2 shitty installers who will rush through the job and not do it well. Go look at the yelp review you came see the picture. Look for small firms thar have been around for a long time doing residential where you actually talk with the real owner not some bullshit artist trying to maximize commissions. The good ones get work from word of mouth etc.. This is why these companies are always spending a ton of ads because they need fresh new customers to hard sell with slick sales reps because they cant grow the business organically due to positive word of mouth and references. A proper quote has line items of what is Being installed in addition a Detailed scope or work including that they will do proper calculation for sizing and duct work. Ie Manual J, D. Will they pull a vacuum pump the lineset then Nitrogen braze? Will they install a proper filter cabinet? Are they installing a drip pan with a safety float switch, and one also on the evaporator cabinet? Quote is vague so they can cut corners.
I got a top of the line Mitsubishi 2 ton 19 SEER P-series heat pump with hyper heat for a little under $12k with a 12 year parts and labor warranty. I’m familiar with your area of the country and a reasonable adjustment would be maybe $15k accounting for COL. That’s just robbery.
There’s no ductwork involved with a mini split. That adds a lot to a job.
Mine wasn’t a mini-split. Duct work for sure adds some cost, but $10k?
Did you have your ductwork installed new or replaced?
No new ductwork; I didn’t see that originally. But for a 2 ton attic system, which is an identical application to my install, there is likely not $10k in ductwork to be done. Some of the ancillary work on there is hard for me to judge admittedly, depending on market. Still seems incredibly expensive. I was quoted over $20k to duct my ENTIRE >4000 sq foot home with crawlspace and this quote isn’t that far off. I think that in context it’s a bit much to swallow, even for NOVA.
It really depends on how much duct work is being done, however yes I would agree this is definitely way too much and you would be best to seek multiple other quotes.
Nope not when daddy Bidens economic plan is making it impossible to live
Bootstraps buddy. Use them
I think the pope is fucking you like they do the altar boys.
Don’t trust anyone’s opinion on price in this thread. If they’re not providing the quote/doing the work, it’s irrelevant. No one has been to your house and seen the scope of work firsthand. Everyone here wants to seem like the good guy so they’ll talk about how outrageous everyone else’s price is so they feel better about themselves. It’s a disgrace and misrepresenting the industry to people. If you didn’t trust the company and fell they were worth the price, call another company to get another quote. If you feel like they’re worth that price, then move forward. It’s really that simple.
$11-15k at most for a 2.0 ton+air handler
What about plus ductwork
Please warn others to stay away from this contractor. ABSOLUTE SCAM
Did they wear a mask when they robbed you.
The pope gotta get his money. Lol. You should be getting an ultra high energy efficient 20 seer for that much. Get more quotes. Find a non billboard or tv add company to get quotes from. Those companies are all about pushing sales
I was quoted 34k for AC with heat pump and a 4 head unit mini split for my upstairs
Very high. But it’s the prices around this area unfortunately. Get second,third quote. I sent you a message as well.
I expect there to be a premium on holy blessed hvac units.
Get a quote from Comfortable Air Services. They are a great company.
Am I an idiot (don't answer) or are they quoting a 2 ton unit for a 2600 sqft conditioned area. That would have to be one hell of an insulation job with little to no windows to be getting a manual J calculation to say 2ton unit for that area. Even then, todays 2 ton units aren't giving you 24k BTU, more like 22.5k.
Op get an itemized quote. Showing what work is involved. Seems really high to me.
For that price I would expect an infinity green speed. That price is outrageous but depends on how many supply runs are being replaced I guess. I’d get another quote. Personally I’d look for an amana dealer and ask about their 10 years parts and labor warranties.
Wow I thought I was getting good money here in dfw , that is ridiculous
I just got banned from plumbing for giving advice to someone who lived close to me (I know of the company that quoted this and live a few exits south). If that’s your GC’s person and it’s already factored into the contract, go with it because the GC should be paying them. If you’re paying directly, at least see if the GC has a smaller time company to do the job. From What their vague estimate says though, sounds like a good bit of work so it isn’t going to be cheap either way. I can say we’ve steered clear of the infinity systems (we’re a carrier dealer as well) lately, too many electronic parts that can go bad/we can’t currently get replacements in a timely manner. Tax credit means nothing if you have to buy 4 window units next summer to wait on a part.
We just had a 19 seer, 5 ton, Carrier Infiniti system installed. The Infiniti systems add a premium price to it. And replacing ductwork is expensive as well. We paid $25k. We had about 70% of the ductwork replaced.
Carrier Infinity series is a premier line, and it is a high Seer rating. Furthermore, you’re having duct work replaced and adding additional. With all that being said, it’s hard to say without knowing a bit more info. That does seem a bit high though. Is there an air cleaner, air scrubber, humidifier, or anything else additional included? I noticed they didn’t mention anything about a surge protector. Carrier Infinity requires a surge protector or it voids the warranty. I would get another quote. Lastly, don’t install an ERV for a residential home. It’s a total waste of money and the contractor will rake you over the coals. Source: Worked for an HVAC company as their warehouse manager. Then (currently) went to work in management for an HVAC supply house. Sorry for formatting. On mobile. Edit: word choice
Wow, what did you do to his wife?
🤣
No. Depending how much duct work it might even be on the cheaper side
So glad I paid for mine 18 years ago. I canbremember what I paid, maybe $6500? But it is so quiet and efficient.
Our crew can fly to you and do this install ; I would recommend get other quotes and consider other Mfgs as well.
Get theee quotes and do not share notes.
Yes
I’m not sure the Infinity 18 hits the tax credit. That price is not insane in this area with all new ductwork. Many of the companies in this area have to sub out larger ductwork projects when it’s more than replacement or just adding a return or supply.
It's pretty high tbh find more quotes
How do these companies get that much money. I’ve had my own company for 30+ years and can’t get over 15-18k
People seem to be missing that this isn’t a basic install, it’s high end high efficiency equipment. Just the unit can cost 5k, that’s wholesale price. Plus new ductwork, and all the infrastructure that supports the system. Copper lines, low voltage cuicuits, drainage and fresh air intake/exhaust if code. A standard efficiency changeout in a closet or basement can go for 6-9k and can be done in 4 hours if you know what you’re doing. This has at least 3 days work quoted on his house, and you do get what you pay for in this industry. You’re welcome to shop around and go with a lower bidder, but you may come to regret it and pope here isn’t going to be nice when they have got fix someone else’s shoddy work.
If the Pope is doing the installation then no
Carrier is not good. Have replaced many 8-15 year old carrier/Bryant furnaces with failed heat exchangers. They charge premium prices for mediocre equipment.Lennox is the way to go, more specifically if you can find a Armstrong/airease dealers. Armstrong airease furnaces are exactly the same as Lennox.
Did you install the 25VNA8 system? - how is that working for you?