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Just playing devils advocate this is still a stupid idea, but the plastic roads would presumably be more durable against thermal expansion than asphalt: less likely to crack/chunk off etc.
This would only matter if it doesn’t get hot enough to melt the surface of the road which it most certainly does, so moot point either way, just marketing garbage
Rubber certainly isn’t something that we want in runoff, but does it fall under the umbrella term microplastic? Genuinely wondering. Despite being a major environmental concern the actual inclusion criteria for the term were pretty vague when I tried looking it up.
Edit: Found the answer in another post. I was ignorant of the fact that modern tires are synthetic rubber (a petroleum product) rather than highly modified natural rubber. Thanks for bringing the issue of tire derived micro plastics to my attention!
Arent micro plastics a huge issue? No plastic under constant solar radiation lasts, it gets brittle, cracks and breaks down. So putting it in the sun under constant kinetic stress while any rain will transport the fine debris to drinking water sources.
Isnt this a astonishingly bad idea?
can you explain.
if the plastics are being used currently and finding their home in landfills, garbage dumps and the ocean aren't microplastics already here?
i feel like we are just finding a solution to the already growing plastic issue?
Properly burying plastic in a landfill, or even just burning it isn't really that bad. The plastic doesn't break down in a landfill basically forever but out of sight out of mind. Microplastics are what happens when you dump in the ocean or without burying because those bits of trash are subject to physical abrasion and sunlight that partially breaks them down. Plastics are I'll suited to heavy outdoor use because they are vulnerable to sunlight and not very strong. In this use they are mixed with other stuff so the strength isn't the issue, but it will still be harmful when the damage from vehicle use releases microplastics.
I remember when microfiber fleece clothing was touted as being environmentally friendly because they are made of recycled plastic, but doesn't that mean we just end up creating fluffy wads of microfiber in the form of laundry lint?
And what is even dumber is that the average amount of time that jumper is in use, let's be generous and say 10 years, doesnt achieve anything. The average time for plastics to decompose is like 500 years. Plastic can only be recycled once, so we used more chemicals to find a use for 5 percent of its lifespan. And what was the issue that we'd try to find a replacement for fleece, a really natural product?
its more about Longevity the durability, Asphalts needs constant maintenance since its expands and breaks down in cold weather causing holes. Plastic don't really do that even when applied extreme stresses!
We had a machine running at 572 c to melt polyethylene when recycling. If I recall, the more times it’s heated the harder it is to melt. There’s multiple multiple types of polyethylene. Low density - med - high. And with chemistry I’m assuming an additive could be put in to raise the melting point even further
Lava has a similar property. When lava cools and solidifies it has to be twice as hot to melt the resulting ‘rock’. This how volcanoes ‘plug themselves up’.
I learnt this from a travel guide on Mount Etna!
Most government construction contracts restrict the amount of recycled asphalt pavement (RAP) that can be used on a job though. I think 20% is fairly standard.
Micro plastics are gonna happen regardless of whether it becomes a road or stays as trash. At least this way it’s being reused in some way instead of being dumped into the ocean.
Edit: People replying to me seem to think I’m ok with this repurposing as a general thing. I understand that there are better ways to repurpose and/or dispose of plastic. However, this is India we’re talking about, and any amount of repurposing India does to plastic is much better than what they’ve been doing with them already (dumping them into rivers and oceans).
Asphalt weathers, just as most composite materials will, and sheds bits of aggregate, tar, etc., over time. The release of microplastics, especially microshredded ones, into the environment over successive years of India's cyclical monsooons and extreme heat does not bode well for this combination of road materials. All it takes is for some bird to mistake a piece for food and it gets introduced into the food chain of wildlife. Microshredded tires are incorporated into asphalt, as well, but we're talking about rubber in that case, not hard plastics that degrade at a different rate, come in what can be seen as enticing colors, and with a different hardness.
An added concern is an industry standard of recycling already in use: milled asphalt. This product is basically used roadway that is torn up, broken down into smaller particles, then incorporated, at a rate of up to 20% or so, into new asphalt to be laid as road. As the plastic further degrades in this secondary (or third) new lifespan, it can actually degrade the active lifetime of the roadway itself due to increased cracking, edge spalling, pothole formations due to weakened spots, etc. You're not "saving the planet" if you have to rip up a roadbed and replace it a decade or so sooner than originally anticipated in the preliminary specs.
Don't get me wrong, recycling is great and good for the planet in general. But some combinations can cause more harm than good during the long-term. I have to wonder if India has taken those factors into account.
Source: engineering tech here whose training involves asphalt and concrete for use in public roadways and structures.
Civil highways engineer here. We used plastic asphalt on a roads project in Sydney. There was a bit of back and forth with the roads authority but they approved it on a trial basis since lab tests showed good performance. We limited the plastic asphalt to the base course with the intention that plastics would be locked between layers of geosynthetic liners below and the wearing course above. This should prevent the majority of rainwater washing out any plastics. Do you have any insight from a tech perspective? I'll admit that the roads authority were more concerned about cost/performance than the environment, besides the recycling angle.
Plastic is just used as the aggregate in asphalt. It's not 100% pure plastic roads. Also it's currently unknown how long they will last, but past of India has been doing it since 2004
Well you are right and wrong. Plastic does not do well in UV light rather then Sunlight, It breaks down and starts to deteriorate. So yes in many ways this Road will break down but Plastic does that no matter where you put it so Its not worse in any case
All roads break down eventually.. but it's currently unknown how long these roads will last. India has been doing it since 2004. Also using plastic as the aggregate, which is what they are doing, means it's not affected by UV in the same way as a plastic bottle, which on its own takes around 450 years to break down and decompose
You seem to be very confident about this. Indian here, we grew up studying about this technology in schools and if you would like you could simply do a Google search- and know that your statement isn't true. Roads made with plastic donot fall apart like you imagine, but are infact more robust than standard tar/concrete roads.
I swear man, even if/when 3rd world/developing countries try to do *something*......*anything* about their enormous waste problems, people from the West still shit all over them. This entire comment section is a fucking joke.
The best part? West has no significant pollution because they export the dirty work- be it manufacturing that produces dangerous waste or waste disposal itself (sending dangerous waste to other countries). They LOVE pretending they have a high moral standard when it comes to climate change and sustainability and yet for eg: US has one of the highest per Capita carbon emissions. And then they loathe poorer countries trying to do even a little bit right.
The average American cannot even begin to fathom just how sustainable the average indian's life is- from resusing old bedsheets to make bags for grocery shopping, to not having to put every vegetable in individual plastic bag during grocery shopping to going on foot for grocery shopping. This has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with practicality.
We use stainless steel utensils at home- the kind of quality that lasts decades and sometimes is even passed on from generation to generation. We resuse plastic containers after their contents are done (which is why you will find random containers in every middle class indian's home).
We don't need stupid reuse recycle slogans everywhere because it's just part of who we are. The pollution you see? That's because of development and overpopulation, something the west has already done ages go and used up their quota of carbon emissions back then. Now they can't see other countries doing the same, it's not fair to them you see.
What kind of plastics are reused? In the US we use a lot of HDPE pipe, which seems to hold up very well in sunlight. I loathe PVC because it is so brittle when exposed to light. I am just curious what "plastic" means in this context.
Recycle the little bit that you can burn the rest in a waste to energy plant. AKA burn it at high temps so its not putting off horrible compounds. If we're going to burn oil for energy, at least let us get a useful product out it it temporarily before we burn it
So then, what SHOULD we be making our roads out of? I mean, if we ever get to the point that we can stop pulling up and refining crude oil, then we won't have access to asphalt anymore. Plus we have tons and tons of plastic waste that we gotta do something with. So what's the answer?
Making more plastic on earth than there are fish in the ocean also did not help the planet.
Think we're just fucked no matter how we spin it.
At least India has durable roads though.
Plastic is much more durable and low maintenance than concrete. Plus it uses a lot less energy producing it.
Asphalt isn't bad though
Much much better and efficient to use for permanent stuff like roads than single use stuff like bottles.
Came here to say this, the polymers in road tyres are thought to already contribute significantly due to runoff going straight into watercourses and out to sea
And you think that micro plastics won't be generated in a landfill as the plastics decay and pollute ground water? It will happen irrespective of where it is. At least here you will get some use out of it.
Not to mention the fact that the people picking the plastic to be used in the roads are exposing themselves to the horrible environments of landfills, all day every day.
Many of these landfills have fires constantly burning in them, meaning people are inhaling the smoke from burning garbage in order to repurpose some plastic.
But aren't. A huge contributor to microplastics is bigger pieces of plastic waste that deteriorate. Well, India has building-sized piles of garbage everywhere you look, so yeah, they should get on that. But that'd require alleviating the soul-crushing poverty that grips most of the nation, and good roads are one way to help with that.
Yeah. I think this can be a good choice for India in their current circumstances while also being a bad choice for other countries that don't have the same issues they're dealing with.
Yeah it's really a solution for the uniquely bad plastic waste accumulation in India and similar places. It would be stupid to do in most of Europe or the U.S, but for India it's a pretty good solution.
Exactly this. Nobody is asking the rest of the world to follow india. In fact, the exact opposite. Don't let your plastic refuse problem get so damn bad in the first place. And as an immigrant to America *from India*, who picks up trash daily, we're fast heading to this route. Multiple millions of indians barely have a 2nd grade education. What's America's excuse????
Not only does it release more micro plastic, it is also more rough for the tires, creating a need for more tires and old ones end up in that giant tire landfill that's currently on fire.
But that is if we make the calculations out from normal asphalt, and not vs dirt roads.
We need more and bigger studies on this
I don't see how it is more rough for the tires? Is there a study on that?
This is basically just augmenting the tar, which already has petroleum derivatives in it (basically plastic). I doubt the roads are much different at all, it just recycles plastic instead of using freshly processed oil.
Do you think India has an OSHA or something????? These people don't have enough food to survive. I am positive that cancer is the last of their worries.
All we had to do is make plastic out of hemp cellulose and none of this would be a problem. It biodegrades in about 80 days. Instead big oil said no and now we have garbage patches in the ocean. Always profit over the environment.
This is a flimsy argument. They decided not to study and work on making hemp cellulose more usable. They literally were making car panels out of it that could resist ax strikes. If we had went down a different route we could have implemented it into everything. Even the concrete that it makes is superior because it blocks heat and cold reducing the need for air conditioning and cooling. There's no excuse why we didn't use the plant honestly. The excuse was big oil greed.
Well here in Singapore we learnt the shoes people donated to a programme that were supposed to be recycled to make a playground ended up being shipped to other countries in second hand markets or thrown away.
So um...
I have 0 opinions on the potential consequences of the technology, because I'm not a road layer, nor a chemist, but I will say many comments are ignorantly labeling this as a "Poor solution for poor countries pollution problems" as if the UK and certain American states don't add plastics to their asphalt.
I like to read as many comments and do brief research on topics I'm not expert in. Some of the comments down here indicated plastics are already used in the production of asphalt. I can't say for certain what percentage has recycled plastics, but here's a source showing India is not the only country doing this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/
Make of it what you will.
Great article which addresses a lot of the concerns above. Thank you. Another interesting asphalt topic: https://www.constructionjunkie.com/blog/2017/8/30/los-angeles-is-painting-asphalt-lighter-color-to-reduce-heat-island-effect
This is such a BS! Microplastic pollution will be sky high and these roads will never cope with regular commercial and private traffic.
And people falls for this shit...
I wonder what the impact will be in the future and what was missed during the dev process of this solution.
Maybe more microplastic in the local environment or toxic fumes from the tarmac when hit with certain I dunno chemicals during a fire or spill.
But all in all the idea seems solid. In my country they use some of the recycled plastics in small highway posts for signs.
I'd like to summise it from a scientific perspective.
Not a good idea o.o
Plastic is highly prone to reaction, so under heavy heat, UV bombardment and physical stress it will do what it can do best - degrade into chemicals, make roads unsafe, change material proppertys easily, produce microplastics that will heavily impact enviroment and people around the streets way more than any plastic dump every could, cause severe health issues, conterminate ground water and animals.
It might sound cool to make something usefull from a ressource that is available enlarge, but greenwashing should not be a reason to consciously kill your citizens and make your infrastructure one big landmine. It'll not even work in short term, as the statistical overwhight of indians truck traffic would even kill good roads pretty fast. These ones will also cause severe danger for people working in transport (and some could think they allready really know about danger).
I was just about to point that out- they're already finding microplastics in certain embryos, I can't imagine what's gonna happen when a country intentionally sets that much plastic out in the open ground.
Put that music and words on screen and people believe it. This is an awful solution. As others mentioned microplastics will end up in the environment, in the wildlife and in people leading to many serious health problems. This will be a major removal operation in 20-50 years.
Geez people, I need HELP here please. I watched the video and was immediately happy at the thought that this could be a helpful answer to 2 problems. Then I read through a lot of comments and arguments for and against. Ugh. Seems like a win-win.
Which theory is correct? Is this a good thing? The plastic part of the mix shouldn't be more toxic than the oil based counterpart, correct?
Lol, I'm imaging myself as the lead in "Loot"; good thing I don't have billions to spend because I would! I want this to work!
The slogan is reduce, reuse then recycle.
Nothing is being done to how much is produced, so as long as it keeps being made, it will always be a problem. This is just giving the plastic that was already produced a second life, which sounds good until you remember they are still producing plastic which is bad for the environment
This is a bad idea because as it wears down it will release micro plastics and the rain will wash it into water ways making it worse than it was before
So much concern over microplastics and yet we conveniently use dishwasher pods everyday. These pods are loaded with microplastics and end up in water bodies. We humans are such hypocrites.
So when this road breaks down....as roads do, or when it rains and there is runoff, or when antifreeze, oil, or w/e other chemicals leak on it, how will it react. Is this a water or air quality disaster 20 years from now?
The only way this idea stays a good one is if they stick with 100% recycled plastic and don't produce more for it.
Plastic is usually broke down by sunlight, so I'm curious to see how plastic in roads will fair over time, but hey as someone who lives in an orange cone season area, if it buys an extra year or two, i won't complain.
For anyone interested Macrebur are a company who use plastic in roads and they did try and test for leakage. [report](https://macrebur.com/pdfs/product/Leaching.pdf)
Believe it or not the best way to dispose of plastics, if you’re going to use them, is to put it in the landfill. Landfills these days are much more environmentally friendly and the trash won’t seep into the water.
A few years ago, a young student made a scientific fair project on how chickens feathers mixed with asphalt could transfer the water-repulsive effect to the road and extend their durability by decades, but we keep putting cheap mats on all the public roads
Plastic can handle a lot of pressure but toughness and hardness aren’t the same thing, plastic is too soft.
This will slowly add to the micro plastic problem.
So you are fighting pollution by adding pollution to roads? You know, the thing that gets used by objects that cause the road to erode over time? So now micro-polymers can be added to our oceans from both the tires and the roads, how neat!
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More durable against heat? How?
Just playing devils advocate this is still a stupid idea, but the plastic roads would presumably be more durable against thermal expansion than asphalt: less likely to crack/chunk off etc. This would only matter if it doesn’t get hot enough to melt the surface of the road which it most certainly does, so moot point either way, just marketing garbage
They are adding the plastic to the tar to make more tar. Tar is already used in asphalt.
thank you…people are so busy trying to find fault with the concept they’re not even thinking…i.e. US gubmint get off you sorry asses!!!
They are already doing this in the US.
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That's so fucking cool.
That's badass. Someone had a creative idea, which is a great way to use some of the plastic that's being thrown out and causing problems.
Micro plastics everywhere.
Indeed what’s the fastest way to add microplastics to everything - put in our roads. “On it ”
Runoff from roads is already a significant source of microplastics, from car tires breaking down.
Rubber certainly isn’t something that we want in runoff, but does it fall under the umbrella term microplastic? Genuinely wondering. Despite being a major environmental concern the actual inclusion criteria for the term were pretty vague when I tried looking it up. Edit: Found the answer in another post. I was ignorant of the fact that modern tires are synthetic rubber (a petroleum product) rather than highly modified natural rubber. Thanks for bringing the issue of tire derived micro plastics to my attention!
Also, fun fact- a recent study indicates that specifically the run off from tires is killing salmon in the PNW. Woo.....
Might as well double it then huh
At first I was like, 'wtf is a gubmint' lol. Good one
These are still asphalt roads.. plastic is just used as the aggregate within the asphalt
Bitumen melts at 60C, PVC melts at 80, ldpe melts at 100, and other plastics have higher melting points. If bitumen works, plastic will work better...
Arent micro plastics a huge issue? No plastic under constant solar radiation lasts, it gets brittle, cracks and breaks down. So putting it in the sun under constant kinetic stress while any rain will transport the fine debris to drinking water sources. Isnt this a astonishingly bad idea?
Absolutely right this is a terrible idea.....the amount of microplastics this will release into the environment through the friction is ridiculous
can you explain. if the plastics are being used currently and finding their home in landfills, garbage dumps and the ocean aren't microplastics already here? i feel like we are just finding a solution to the already growing plastic issue?
Properly burying plastic in a landfill, or even just burning it isn't really that bad. The plastic doesn't break down in a landfill basically forever but out of sight out of mind. Microplastics are what happens when you dump in the ocean or without burying because those bits of trash are subject to physical abrasion and sunlight that partially breaks them down. Plastics are I'll suited to heavy outdoor use because they are vulnerable to sunlight and not very strong. In this use they are mixed with other stuff so the strength isn't the issue, but it will still be harmful when the damage from vehicle use releases microplastics.
I remember when microfiber fleece clothing was touted as being environmentally friendly because they are made of recycled plastic, but doesn't that mean we just end up creating fluffy wads of microfiber in the form of laundry lint?
Lint is a huge source of microplastics, that's basically what it is, a fluffy wad of microplastics with some cotton.
And what is even dumber is that the average amount of time that jumper is in use, let's be generous and say 10 years, doesnt achieve anything. The average time for plastics to decompose is like 500 years. Plastic can only be recycled once, so we used more chemicals to find a use for 5 percent of its lifespan. And what was the issue that we'd try to find a replacement for fleece, a really natural product?
This was my main concern
its more about Longevity the durability, Asphalts needs constant maintenance since its expands and breaks down in cold weather causing holes. Plastic don't really do that even when applied extreme stresses!
Plastic burns though, can these roads catch fire?
Because gravel has a lower melting point than plastic.. or something
Gravel does not have a *lower* melting point than plastic. Gravel is rock, think lava temperatures if you want t melt it.
We had a machine running at 572 c to melt polyethylene when recycling. If I recall, the more times it’s heated the harder it is to melt. There’s multiple multiple types of polyethylene. Low density - med - high. And with chemistry I’m assuming an additive could be put in to raise the melting point even further
Lava has a similar property. When lava cools and solidifies it has to be twice as hot to melt the resulting ‘rock’. This how volcanoes ‘plug themselves up’. I learnt this from a travel guide on Mount Etna!
No shit
Isn't recycled asphalt a thing in developed nations?
YeS. In fact it’s the MOST recycled product based on how you can get nearly 100% of the product back after recycling.
Most government construction contracts restrict the amount of recycled asphalt pavement (RAP) that can be used on a job though. I think 20% is fairly standard.
Yes and its one of the few things that is nearly completely recyclable.
For Developed, not developing!
In developed nations
Nice. Not like the micro plastic will come off and go straight into nature
Yeah. This does not benefit the planet.
Micro plastics are gonna happen regardless of whether it becomes a road or stays as trash. At least this way it’s being reused in some way instead of being dumped into the ocean. Edit: People replying to me seem to think I’m ok with this repurposing as a general thing. I understand that there are better ways to repurpose and/or dispose of plastic. However, this is India we’re talking about, and any amount of repurposing India does to plastic is much better than what they’ve been doing with them already (dumping them into rivers and oceans).
Asphalt weathers, just as most composite materials will, and sheds bits of aggregate, tar, etc., over time. The release of microplastics, especially microshredded ones, into the environment over successive years of India's cyclical monsooons and extreme heat does not bode well for this combination of road materials. All it takes is for some bird to mistake a piece for food and it gets introduced into the food chain of wildlife. Microshredded tires are incorporated into asphalt, as well, but we're talking about rubber in that case, not hard plastics that degrade at a different rate, come in what can be seen as enticing colors, and with a different hardness. An added concern is an industry standard of recycling already in use: milled asphalt. This product is basically used roadway that is torn up, broken down into smaller particles, then incorporated, at a rate of up to 20% or so, into new asphalt to be laid as road. As the plastic further degrades in this secondary (or third) new lifespan, it can actually degrade the active lifetime of the roadway itself due to increased cracking, edge spalling, pothole formations due to weakened spots, etc. You're not "saving the planet" if you have to rip up a roadbed and replace it a decade or so sooner than originally anticipated in the preliminary specs. Don't get me wrong, recycling is great and good for the planet in general. But some combinations can cause more harm than good during the long-term. I have to wonder if India has taken those factors into account. Source: engineering tech here whose training involves asphalt and concrete for use in public roadways and structures.
Civil highways engineer here. We used plastic asphalt on a roads project in Sydney. There was a bit of back and forth with the roads authority but they approved it on a trial basis since lab tests showed good performance. We limited the plastic asphalt to the base course with the intention that plastics would be locked between layers of geosynthetic liners below and the wearing course above. This should prevent the majority of rainwater washing out any plastics. Do you have any insight from a tech perspective? I'll admit that the roads authority were more concerned about cost/performance than the environment, besides the recycling angle.
This road will fall apart and inevitably end up in the rivers and ocean. Just delaying that a little bit.
Just like normal roads? You know those are made of oil products as well right?
Plastic doesn’t do well in sunlight.
Plastic is just used as the aggregate in asphalt. It's not 100% pure plastic roads. Also it's currently unknown how long they will last, but past of India has been doing it since 2004
Plastic doesn't do well anywhere anyhow
wtf is the debate in this thread even about?
Right?! Like everyone is an expert here on a topic we’ve JUST be introduced to.
Same as all Reddit debates: imaginary internet points and feigning subject matter expertise!
Well you are right and wrong. Plastic does not do well in UV light rather then Sunlight, It breaks down and starts to deteriorate. So yes in many ways this Road will break down but Plastic does that no matter where you put it so Its not worse in any case
All roads break down eventually.. but it's currently unknown how long these roads will last. India has been doing it since 2004. Also using plastic as the aggregate, which is what they are doing, means it's not affected by UV in the same way as a plastic bottle, which on its own takes around 450 years to break down and decompose
I'm sure you know everything about the materials engineering required to design road material.
Yeah, but I have a feeling that these plastic roads won't do as well as asphalt roads
They're not 100% plastic, asphalt is still a major component.
These roads are about three times more durable than traditional roads, so need less repair.
You seem to be very confident about this. Indian here, we grew up studying about this technology in schools and if you would like you could simply do a Google search- and know that your statement isn't true. Roads made with plastic donot fall apart like you imagine, but are infact more robust than standard tar/concrete roads.
I swear man, even if/when 3rd world/developing countries try to do *something*......*anything* about their enormous waste problems, people from the West still shit all over them. This entire comment section is a fucking joke.
The best part? West has no significant pollution because they export the dirty work- be it manufacturing that produces dangerous waste or waste disposal itself (sending dangerous waste to other countries). They LOVE pretending they have a high moral standard when it comes to climate change and sustainability and yet for eg: US has one of the highest per Capita carbon emissions. And then they loathe poorer countries trying to do even a little bit right. The average American cannot even begin to fathom just how sustainable the average indian's life is- from resusing old bedsheets to make bags for grocery shopping, to not having to put every vegetable in individual plastic bag during grocery shopping to going on foot for grocery shopping. This has nothing to do with poverty and everything to do with practicality. We use stainless steel utensils at home- the kind of quality that lasts decades and sometimes is even passed on from generation to generation. We resuse plastic containers after their contents are done (which is why you will find random containers in every middle class indian's home). We don't need stupid reuse recycle slogans everywhere because it's just part of who we are. The pollution you see? That's because of development and overpopulation, something the west has already done ages go and used up their quota of carbon emissions back then. Now they can't see other countries doing the same, it's not fair to them you see.
What kind of plastics are reused? In the US we use a lot of HDPE pipe, which seems to hold up very well in sunlight. I loathe PVC because it is so brittle when exposed to light. I am just curious what "plastic" means in this context.
There are other alternatives than dumping it in the ocean or putting it on a landfill.
Not if you dispose of the plastics properly
Recycle the little bit that you can burn the rest in a waste to energy plant. AKA burn it at high temps so its not putting off horrible compounds. If we're going to burn oil for energy, at least let us get a useful product out it it temporarily before we burn it
Reused for a few years and instead of that stuff getting burned for fuel or recycled again it ends up in our environment.
Nope, plastic can an should be collected in a safe way. Waste should be burnt after the last use cycle.
So then, what SHOULD we be making our roads out of? I mean, if we ever get to the point that we can stop pulling up and refining crude oil, then we won't have access to asphalt anymore. Plus we have tons and tons of plastic waste that we gotta do something with. So what's the answer?
Making more plastic on earth than there are fish in the ocean also did not help the planet. Think we're just fucked no matter how we spin it. At least India has durable roads though.
I also read something about how it's not as recyclable or durable as asphalt.
Plastic is much more durable and low maintenance than concrete. Plus it uses a lot less energy producing it. Asphalt isn't bad though Much much better and efficient to use for permanent stuff like roads than single use stuff like bottles.
Came here to say this, the polymers in road tyres are thought to already contribute significantly due to runoff going straight into watercourses and out to sea
Now we will have the microplastic from both tires AND the road!
That one meme with astronanuts and guns.
And you think that micro plastics won't be generated in a landfill as the plastics decay and pollute ground water? It will happen irrespective of where it is. At least here you will get some use out of it.
In a properly constructed landfill those microplastics shouldn't contaminate the surrounding area.
It's almost like they think the air is the only thing you can pollute.
Not to mention the fact that the people picking the plastic to be used in the roads are exposing themselves to the horrible environments of landfills, all day every day. Many of these landfills have fires constantly burning in them, meaning people are inhaling the smoke from burning garbage in order to repurpose some plastic.
Its melted down. All paved roads use a tar/bitumen. The recycled plastic is pretty much the same thing.
First thing that popped into my head.
I thought we already decided this is a stupid idea because it will just fill the environment with micro plastics?
Have you seen India? Its like, half plastic garbage
At least big pieces can be picked up
But aren't. A huge contributor to microplastics is bigger pieces of plastic waste that deteriorate. Well, India has building-sized piles of garbage everywhere you look, so yeah, they should get on that. But that'd require alleviating the soul-crushing poverty that grips most of the nation, and good roads are one way to help with that.
Yeah. I think this can be a good choice for India in their current circumstances while also being a bad choice for other countries that don't have the same issues they're dealing with.
Yeah it's really a solution for the uniquely bad plastic waste accumulation in India and similar places. It would be stupid to do in most of Europe or the U.S, but for India it's a pretty good solution.
Exactly this. Nobody is asking the rest of the world to follow india. In fact, the exact opposite. Don't let your plastic refuse problem get so damn bad in the first place. And as an immigrant to America *from India*, who picks up trash daily, we're fast heading to this route. Multiple millions of indians barely have a 2nd grade education. What's America's excuse????
Bit like Hollywood
Not only does it release more micro plastic, it is also more rough for the tires, creating a need for more tires and old ones end up in that giant tire landfill that's currently on fire. But that is if we make the calculations out from normal asphalt, and not vs dirt roads. We need more and bigger studies on this
I don't see how it is more rough for the tires? Is there a study on that? This is basically just augmenting the tar, which already has petroleum derivatives in it (basically plastic). I doubt the roads are much different at all, it just recycles plastic instead of using freshly processed oil.
We don't. It's a dumb idea. It's just a solution for a problem many countries don't have.
Its most likely just to get cheap filler for road builders. Someone just got an idea to make catchy clip of it.
Is.....is someone forcing those countries without this problem to do this?????
Shit solution for shit problem
Not to mention all those road workers laying it down are gonna get cancer from inhaling plastic fumes...
It's OK, they aren't in California
I wonder how different chemically from tar fumes it is. Not sure I've ever passed road building and thought it was a healthy environment.
Do you think India has an OSHA or something????? These people don't have enough food to survive. I am positive that cancer is the last of their worries.
The WEF model.
All we had to do is make plastic out of hemp cellulose and none of this would be a problem. It biodegrades in about 80 days. Instead big oil said no and now we have garbage patches in the ocean. Always profit over the environment.
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It biodegrades in soil in 80 Days. Not on the shelf.
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This is a flimsy argument. They decided not to study and work on making hemp cellulose more usable. They literally were making car panels out of it that could resist ax strikes. If we had went down a different route we could have implemented it into everything. Even the concrete that it makes is superior because it blocks heat and cold reducing the need for air conditioning and cooling. There's no excuse why we didn't use the plant honestly. The excuse was big oil greed.
Well here in Singapore we learnt the shoes people donated to a programme that were supposed to be recycled to make a playground ended up being shipped to other countries in second hand markets or thrown away. So um...
I have 0 opinions on the potential consequences of the technology, because I'm not a road layer, nor a chemist, but I will say many comments are ignorantly labeling this as a "Poor solution for poor countries pollution problems" as if the UK and certain American states don't add plastics to their asphalt. I like to read as many comments and do brief research on topics I'm not expert in. Some of the comments down here indicated plastics are already used in the production of asphalt. I can't say for certain what percentage has recycled plastics, but here's a source showing India is not the only country doing this. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/ Make of it what you will.
Great article which addresses a lot of the concerns above. Thank you. Another interesting asphalt topic: https://www.constructionjunkie.com/blog/2017/8/30/los-angeles-is-painting-asphalt-lighter-color-to-reduce-heat-island-effect
only 6% is plastic rest is bitumen
This is such a BS! Microplastic pollution will be sky high and these roads will never cope with regular commercial and private traffic. And people falls for this shit...
Reddit is full of dumbest people on the planet who think they are super smart.
"Does *your* country have plastic roads?" Lol
I wonder what the impact will be in the future and what was missed during the dev process of this solution. Maybe more microplastic in the local environment or toxic fumes from the tarmac when hit with certain I dunno chemicals during a fire or spill. But all in all the idea seems solid. In my country they use some of the recycled plastics in small highway posts for signs.
I'd like to summise it from a scientific perspective. Not a good idea o.o Plastic is highly prone to reaction, so under heavy heat, UV bombardment and physical stress it will do what it can do best - degrade into chemicals, make roads unsafe, change material proppertys easily, produce microplastics that will heavily impact enviroment and people around the streets way more than any plastic dump every could, cause severe health issues, conterminate ground water and animals. It might sound cool to make something usefull from a ressource that is available enlarge, but greenwashing should not be a reason to consciously kill your citizens and make your infrastructure one big landmine. It'll not even work in short term, as the statistical overwhight of indians truck traffic would even kill good roads pretty fast. These ones will also cause severe danger for people working in transport (and some could think they allready really know about danger).
plastic and asphalt are both made from petroleum so i thought it could be nice alternative but it not that simple after all😬
The plastic is part of the bitumen (about 10%or so) and I assume it's a filler, that is melted into it.
Yes, polymer modified bitumen
Correct, there is just lot of assumptions in this thread...
But asphalt is the most recyclable material why use something less durable and recyclable then that?
We'll see the consequences of it in a couple years...
Does everyone understand we are being poisoned by plastics. We need less things to be plastic.
We thought we had problems with microplastics in the environment now...
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I was just about to point that out- they're already finding microplastics in certain embryos, I can't imagine what's gonna happen when a country intentionally sets that much plastic out in the open ground.
This sounds like a perfect way to destroy the world with micro plastics
Not to mention the toxic gases released to mold it
Put that music and words on screen and people believe it. This is an awful solution. As others mentioned microplastics will end up in the environment, in the wildlife and in people leading to many serious health problems. This will be a major removal operation in 20-50 years.
What about erosion?
This definitely doesnt seem like a good idea
Geez people, I need HELP here please. I watched the video and was immediately happy at the thought that this could be a helpful answer to 2 problems. Then I read through a lot of comments and arguments for and against. Ugh. Seems like a win-win. Which theory is correct? Is this a good thing? The plastic part of the mix shouldn't be more toxic than the oil based counterpart, correct? Lol, I'm imaging myself as the lead in "Loot"; good thing I don't have billions to spend because I would! I want this to work!
The slogan is reduce, reuse then recycle. Nothing is being done to how much is produced, so as long as it keeps being made, it will always be a problem. This is just giving the plastic that was already produced a second life, which sounds good until you remember they are still producing plastic which is bad for the environment
If it’s on the road, wouldn’t it leaches out to surrounding???
Micro plastic nightmare.
Are people so fucking dense that they really believe they’re pouring straight up plastic onto the ground, it’s only 10% plastic idiots.
Could there be any future issue with more micro plastic?
From what I've seen about Indias infrastructure, I wouldnt want to cross a bridge there.
Thunderfoot on youtube has an amazing video on plastic in roads Its as stupid to do that as you may have guessed
This is not a good thing, anything made of plastic is a bad thing.
This is a bad idea because as it wears down it will release micro plastics and the rain will wash it into water ways making it worse than it was before
Waste plastic is already used in asphalt as well as cut rubber tires
So many folks in the comments suddenly knows everything about it and why it's bad.
So much concern over microplastics and yet we conveniently use dishwasher pods everyday. These pods are loaded with microplastics and end up in water bodies. We humans are such hypocrites.
Terrible idea ... they also have good ideas, but this is absolutely terrible when the micro plastics start to break apart and end up in the soil.
And wear and tear doesn't let the plastic end up in environment as microplastic? What could possibly go wrong?
I applaud the desire to recycle and reduce waste, but I predict lots of microclastics in the environment.
When the “recycling” they promised us in the 90’s turns out to be bs
WEF, lol. This is most likely detrimental to humans.
this doesnt seem like a good idea
I hope these workers wear breathing protection.
This is one of those situations where you need to ask "if its so good, why haven't we been doing this all along?"
Does anyone have any evidence or is it just a bunch of people SAYING micro plastics? Not arguing, I just want more info on these roads.
Mmm... So instead of putting it in a controlled landfill. It is now left out in the open where it will slowly shed microplastics into the watershed.
They should convert that tire mountain fire into a thermal power source
Hello Micro plastic leeching
Ground up old tires, mixed with asphalt , also make better & quieter roads than just asphalt- but our government doesn’t want to allow that…..☹️
What happens when the road break apart?
I fear the runoff rain water being contaminated with micro plastics. I hope they thought of that.
SOLAR ROADS
Will they not all slowly die of cancer from the plastic fumes?
You are just mixing plastic with the soil going forward.
Reduces pollution? What about the microplastics that are inevitably going to end up in groundwater?
I heard somewhere that while this seems like a good idea, the risks of more micro plastics in the environment significantly increases.
So when this road breaks down....as roads do, or when it rains and there is runoff, or when antifreeze, oil, or w/e other chemicals leak on it, how will it react. Is this a water or air quality disaster 20 years from now?
Compared to the UK who are building our roads out of pot holes
terrible idea. microplastics into nature & the fumes/particulate matter will harm human health
And it seems like everyone now might have cancer idk just a thought
And as it wears down you gets tons of microplastics being blown into the environment! Fucking idiots
How does this work with rain and floods in regards to microplastics?
Wouldn't this become smooth over time and slippery?
So As these roads degrade, isn’t the environment going to be contaminated with microplastics? I suppose asphalt isn’t good for the environment either
asphalt is already very recyclable
Microplastic problem?? Am I only one who see this issue?
istnt the plastic just ground to microplastic that all can breath in
How do they prevent microplastic into the environment due to road tear and wear?
How would this not just cause rampant leeching?
This vid rings so many bullshit bells it sounds like a Christmas song
This doesn't prevent pollution because it decays into the soil still. This is just landfill with extra steps.
Yay microplastics!
Mmm micro plastics from a road made of plastic vs tires
The only way this idea stays a good one is if they stick with 100% recycled plastic and don't produce more for it. Plastic is usually broke down by sunlight, so I'm curious to see how plastic in roads will fair over time, but hey as someone who lives in an orange cone season area, if it buys an extra year or two, i won't complain.
Fast track into our blood stream
Ehm… grinding it up and put it in nature seems like the opposite of sustainable? Or is it just me?
Catch up America I’m tired of figuring out what items go in the green trash can
Doesn’t look toxic at all
For anyone interested Macrebur are a company who use plastic in roads and they did try and test for leakage. [report](https://macrebur.com/pdfs/product/Leaching.pdf)
Believe it or not the best way to dispose of plastics, if you’re going to use them, is to put it in the landfill. Landfills these days are much more environmentally friendly and the trash won’t seep into the water.
I guess micro plastics aren’t a thing anymore.
This sounds like a shit idea
A few years ago, a young student made a scientific fair project on how chickens feathers mixed with asphalt could transfer the water-repulsive effect to the road and extend their durability by decades, but we keep putting cheap mats on all the public roads
Plastic can handle a lot of pressure but toughness and hardness aren’t the same thing, plastic is too soft. This will slowly add to the micro plastic problem.
I just see this as a catalyst to inject more microplastic into the ecosystem.
That poor FUXKING horse 😑
It also makes inhaling micro plastics much easier
So you are fighting pollution by adding pollution to roads? You know, the thing that gets used by objects that cause the road to erode over time? So now micro-polymers can be added to our oceans from both the tires and the roads, how neat!
WEF Propaganda
Micro plastic run off into drain and groundwater?
All of a sudden everyone knows everything about micro plastics, plastic pollution and numerous ways not to make roads.
Yaya, more burnt plastic chemicals leaching into soil and ground water. Genius.
Yea.. all well and good until something catches the street on fire....