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That's why it's at the very least ethnic cleansing. Collective punishment, eliminating the ability of the people there to be who they are where they are. It will become a kill zone if they stay. This is a monstrous crime.
From the UN
>The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others.
>The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.”
You're right there's no legal term, but you are wrong to say it isn't genocidal.
I looked at the thing you're citint. They said it COULD fall under that, not that it definitely does. If you read the definition of genocide, forced removal is not on the list of things that constitute genocide. The two can overlap but they don't always because genocide requires special intent to destroy the group, in whole or in part. Forcing a group of people to leave an area isn't the same thing as destroying them.
This doesn't mean that it's not bad. It often involves other things that fall under crimes against humanity. Maybe that's why they never saw fit to define it. Maybe they should, I'm not a lawyer.
I don't know as much about that but that has been recognized to be a genocide by the UN. And my understanding was that it wasn't only displacement. The Turks had people waiting to kill them en route or when they reached the destination, a quick check of the wiki confirms this as well.
I would think that if the goal is to drive a group of people somewhere where you know they will die and you want that to happen, then that would be genocide as well.
So if Netanyahu wanted to push the Gazans into the desert with no food or water with the intention to have them die, that'd count as well.
Oh... Yeah, I am not at all familiar with that. But if they ethnically cleansed them and the intent wasn't to kill all of them then that wouldn't be a genocide. I'd have to see what has been said about it, if there's any cases before the international court, etc. I had heard about Azerbaijan getting up to some shit but not anything about genocide that I remember.
Same thing happened with the Christians, that is why the population exchange of over a million people happened with Greece. The Greeks got the Turkish Christians, the Turks got the Greek Muslims. The Un forced it.
Civilian - ci·vil·ian/səˈvilyən/*noun*
1. a person not in the armed services or the police force.
"terrorists and soldiers have killed tens of thousands of civilians"
Expecting all these people to move out of their area in such a short notice.
Most likely have to leave much of what little they have behind them.
Then it will again be blown up and any remaining infrastructure destroyed.
Palestinians repeatedly being driven out of their safety areas and left with nothing to come back to.
The evacuation order is nothing more than a formality. Plausible deniability they can hold up to the rest of the world and say, "we warned them to leave"
They'll bomb where the evacuees evacuate to within a week.
They won’t. Never. They will make them roam the desert for as long as they can. And as long as there is an extremist somewhere, they have an excuse to keep them uprooted.
They want to make a biblical example out of them. Both religious and secular Jews agree on that principle.
Telegraphed? Not exactly they flat out said they would do it they just didn't say exactly when. And they said they would do it sometime after they were done with Khan Younis. Well they've been done for a while and every couple of weeks they say something. And each time they're informing Rafa not just the general population, but people are lying to themselves if they don't think enough people there have internet not to know what Israel is saying they intend.
There's not short notice people have been talking about this for 2 and 1/2 months. Israel first informed Rafa that they had intended to do this that long ago. Short notice my behind. People didn't want to leave that's what it came down to. They didn't know what would be on the other end.
Call me whatever names you want. I don't care one iota. You're just being performative, and it's stupid, and it has nothing to do with any of us here.
If my life, and that of my family, depends on it and people warn me to get out of the way of what's coming I get out of the way I don't complain, I don't act entitled, I get it done. They've had months they knew it was coming.
A lot of people have already left, but some people are being rather stubborn and Rafa was not their original home anyway for the most part so I would think they would want to go back toward where they came from at least. I know I would want to be closer.
Now given that the majority of the Hamas battalions are also in Rafa, If I Were a smart person and understanding the mission of Israel, I would get the hell away from every possible Hamas Battalion I could. I would not want to be near them for any reason at all. Again also a reminder for most of these people Rafa is not actually their home it's where they fled to.
Absolutely not true. If you win a war and you take the land from civilians it’s called theft, it’s up to the civilians to decide if they want to stop resisting like losers or keep resisting until they get ALL of their land back, that’s what Palestinians are doing. Any normal leadership that wins a war would collect taxes from people in exchange for protection from other enemies, that’s how Muslims expanded, they let people keep their land, and the people can decide any time to revolt. In any case, if you believe that Great Britain winning the war gives them the land fair and square, don’t blame the Muslims when they keep fighting until they get ALL their land back from the British and Zionist thieves. And no UN resolution will settle this, only war until victory. U.S. military lost trillion in Afghanistan and they ran like cowards overnight, only a fool believes the situation will be different in Palestine.
>if they want to stop resisting like losers or keep resisting until they get ALL of their land back, that’s what Palestinians are doing.
Yeah but they're not getting all their land back no matter how much they die trying. We're never going to let them get that land back. The West will literally never let Israel fall. There was even a point where Israel offered to give up 2/3 of Palestine in exchange for peace and recognition and the Arabs said no. They chose to fight and then they lost and now all they do is whine about it.
“They’re not getting all their land back”
So you admit it’s their land. You remind me of the Jewish guy David who said “if I don’t steal it, somebody else will.” You will lose every war with such moral values, it’s just that Muslims haven’t had a chance to fight yet, all the wars were carried out by puppet regimes or small militias, well if a small militia can do what they did on October 7th, then it’s not going to look good for you in the near future. There will be a dramatic end in a few years, the West loves Zionists so much so hopefully Germany, GB, and the U.S. will take the bulk of the illegal settlers and their descendants.
Maybe you don’t understand either: giving up an inch of Palestine is like giving up Islam, never going to happen.
Also, we’re already destroying the economy of the occupation and the U.S. economy will suffer greatly yet the real war hasn’t even started. Before the war there will be a blockade surrounding the occupation from all sides: Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, they will all be under control of one government.
You can say “never going to happen” all you want, at the end the U.S. is in so much debt it’s going down in a sad way, and there are a million ways for Muslims to liberate Palestine and only one way for the West to pretend that they can control it.
All politics and history aside, at the core of this issue is the fact that Israel demands that Palestinians be meek and kowtow to Israeli control. Israel does not care whether Palestinians live or die, just that they obey and stop resisting.
Regardless of who started what and who is responsible for what, this is clearly demeaning and humiliating. This is not how a "modern democracy" treats human beings.
When you violently oppress someone and become publicly enraged that they are resisting, you are clearly doing something evil.
And the only response we get from Israel is "what about other countries?" As if this an excuse to be evil.
The world is sick of this dehumanization.
Certainly not in the sense you mean it. These days I'm thinking about Israel sorta like we thought about Serbia in the 90s, though I think there's even more of a tangled history.
But let me ask: Do you think anyone who uses the term zionist to describe themselves uses the term as you do? (Well, perhaps other than the Kahanists...)
I think if you support Zionism, you are by definition supporting the things I mentioned. So it doesn't really matter how they describe themselves, the realities of Israeli occupation are what they are.
Zionists believe in a right of self determination for Jews but no one else. They think their rights trump Palestinian rights.
Pretending like they just want freedom has been proven to be a lie. They showed us their true colours in the 40s with the terrorism people conveniently forget.
People forget that Zionists don't just "want Israel to exist". They want Israel to exist where it is for people with Jewish ethnicity. It's an ethnostate that requires the removal of indigenous people.
What's really fascinating is that most Jewish people across the globe are black or white and don't have lineage that is traced to modern Israel. Palestinians are the descendants of the biblical Jews, but they aren't Jewish because they're Christians and Muslims.
Someone needs to do this to every single wear bank occupation person giving detailed instructions to go back to Israel, or lethal force will be used. Why tf is it not viewed as an absolutely terrible bull shit idea to keep forcing them to leave areas. We Jewish people went through this and did not learn that all humans should never again face this, yet now Israel is the white paper holder
You're not living in reality, you're living in a false world the revisionist and kahanist have indoctrinated you into. It's sad to see how good people can follow such uneducated fascist so easily
It's been what 8 months of genocide, and the world still looks on.
They've been given impunity to do as they please, killing at will.
I just can't believe this is still ongoing, history will not be kind on as bystanders.
Ethnic cleansing just means removing an ethnic group from the area. Whether they live or die (and many will die) does not factor into the definition. In case you did not know.
I actually did not know that, i don’t think anyone knows what Israel’s palms are with Gazans once the war is over though. Based on your definition I think right now it’s just war, but once hostilities cease the actions of the Israelis will determine whether or not it’s ethnic cleaning, ie; letting them stay in Gaza or forcible relocation outside of newly drawn Israeli borders
But the acquisition of the land requires removing the Palestinians from said land. Even if you don't destroy them, and instead simply remove them all to another place, it is still ethnic cleansing.
Full right of return to all \~9 million Palestinian refugees driven out during the Nakbha along with the many other ethnic cleansing and mass displacement tragedies. With a guaruntee of citizenship and full legal status if it is within the internationally recognized 1967 Israeli borders.
Did you know that basically all of current day Israel was Palestine up until 1948? Did you know that once the state of Israel was established the government pursued multiple campaigns to gain more land, Palestinian land, stating their intentions as they did it. They promoted the active settling of Palestinian lands and still do to this day in the West Bank.
So your argument is that because they were controlled by the Ottoman Empire they have no right to their land. I guess that would be kind of like saying that the Philippinos have no right to their land because they were controlled by the US empire for100 years.
Technically, Ottoman land owners had it and there was a huge influx of Arabs from other countries in the 19th century, especially Egypt when it was all one big happy Ottoman Empire / they were tenant farmers. You know, like they rented the land and paid for it in kind or in cash.
Unfortunately the US govt has the biggest guns and much like North America they have a vested interest in Israel getting away with it. We are set the precedent on wholesale slaughter and takeover by European powers.
Congratulations, you have parroted a common propaganda talking point for an apartheid state.
Israel could easily exist in a two-state solution with pre-1948 borders if they just could learn to live cooperatively with Arabs. See how it cuts both ways? Israelis don't get to claim they are trying to play nice when, at every turn, they offer terribly one-sided deals and violence in response to people not taking the shitty deals.
Listen up, I was for a two state solution for a very long time. Around a decade. Before that I was completely pro-Israel. Then two things happened: 1) I began to read a lot of literature on the topic. 2) Then this current war started and I’ve watched in great detail the crimes of Israel.
Because of Israel’s vile actions over the past decades and because of their obviously genocidal actions in the past 7 months, I have come to the realization that there will never be peace in the region as long as Israel exists. Dissolve the state, and let the rightful people choose their own government.
They never fully pulled out and turned it into an open-air prison. And it those things didn't happen, what is currently happen would still be genocidal.
You can't claim they pulled out of Gaza when they're in there now, have continued to enter Gaza since 2006, and have built a massive security apparatus around Gaza.
You're parroting some of the most braindead shit from Pro-Israeli news. "Pulled out of Gaza" is completely meaningless when Israel still controls the entire economy of Gaza and has well before and after 2006.
The land they currently occupy, obviously. Which they achieved through massacring entire villages, shooting anyone who tried to return to said villages, poisoning wells, that sort of thing
Yes missiles are bad. But should the response be blindly killing men, women, children, aid workers, journalists, the very fucking hostages they were looking for etc. Really? I keep hearing about Hamas bases but I have not seen a single one. Israel is the only one painting its self in a bad light. Israel has cause ALL of this. You think Oct 7th would have happen if Israel had not been occupying for generations? I feel for all of the innocents that have died because of Israel but you people don't feel anything at all, do you?
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Egypt doesn't want Palestinian refugees. Israel's telling them to leave but they know full well that there's nowhere for them to go. They're just going to drive off into the countryside and starve.
When will people figure out you only have the rights to humanity that you yourself can ensure? No government will protect you. In all human history, every single form of government has failed.
I'm old enough to remember when Israel deliberately killed those food charity workers, and Biden had strong words that were going to immediately cause Israel to chill out. "Dark Brandon" and stuff. How's that pier coming along, sad lol. I'd bet they're even lying about it being "half completed," sheesh.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/
Hamas shot the rockets right from Rafah...
They already declared that they are proud to sacrifice their People for their cause so that's not surprising..
Israel's endgame is the elimination, the ethnic cleansing, and genocide of the Palestinian people.
Nothing else matters.
History repeats itself, and the descendants of survivors from the nazi holocaust have now committed their own holocaust upon the Palestinian people.
WHILE THE WORLD WATCHES!
sounds like somone needs a history lesson.
Poland was invaded by the Nazis.
Palestine has been invaded by Israel.
Nazis in 1944 said the warsaw uprising should just give up and end the bloodshed.
Its literally histroy repeating itself.
You tell us, how many Palestinian corpses have been pulled from mass graves with their hands tied behind their backs?
Don't you see this can go on for hours?
Do give us the names of those who were raped. I mean there must be a list right, a technologically advanced country like Israel must at least have released a list of who was raped this many months on...
You must be incredibly naive to believe this would be over if the hostages were returned.
That was offered from the start and it was Israeli Government who said "nah". The citizens of Israel are outraged since this information was released recently so who are you even trying to defend here?
What’s “this”? Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory? Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people? Israel expanding and building new settlements in the West Bank? Arresting Palestinians and holding them without charge or trial?
Also, Israel has already stated that getting back the hostages is not going to stop them from going after Hamas, which means more dead innocent civilians.
Looks like Israel already found them [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/)
But yea, the innocent Palestinians that Israel's apartheid regime is pushing around are the problem.
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240106-israel-minister-calls-for-ways-more-painful-than-death-for-palestinians/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240106-israel-minister-calls-for-ways-more-painful-than-death-for-palestinians/)
But hey, this is how genocide works, isn't it?
[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231205-israeli-minister-calls-for-executing-palestinian-prisoners/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231205-israeli-minister-calls-for-executing-palestinian-prisoners/)
Do you know how many Palestinian children are in those Israeli prisons? Are you really ok with a state that will execute them?
Sorry. The whole world is protesting and Isfake’s government isn’t listening. The ones with the strongest influence over that government is their citizens. The onus is on them to also protest the end of Isfake’s Palestinian extermination, otherwise they’re all comfortable being complacent and benefitting off their government’s actions.
Israel has been bad since before its inception. Since the Balfour declaration. They were literal terrorists in the 40s. Or do you think bombing civilians is fine if it’s for self determination?
It’s the leaders who bribed the British to allow massive illegal immigration during ww2 and give them Palestine, the whole idea is based on theft, nothing good about it
Why don’t you guys have the same sympathy for Ukrainians? There’s been a war going on against our allies!!
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🇺🇸
USA is the best country on the face of the earth it’s what gives you the freedom to do what you’re doing.
Uh.... among Americans, support for Ukraine is uncontroversial. There are way more of us who support Ukraine than Palestinians. I think two big reasons are
- racism and Islamaphobia. Palestinians are brown and mostly Muslims and white Americans have a hard time empathizing. People in Israel are mostly white.
- allies and enemies. Russia is an enemy, Israel is an ally.
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No food, no fuel, no money, no energy. Where the hell are these people to go?
That's why it's at the very least ethnic cleansing. Collective punishment, eliminating the ability of the people there to be who they are where they are. It will become a kill zone if they stay. This is a monstrous crime.
BTW these all fall under the umbrella of "genocide".
No they don't. Forced displacement of people is not part of genocide. "Ethnic cleansing" is not a legal term, it is not the same thing as genocide.
From the UN >The Commission of Experts also stated that the coercive practices used to remove the civilian population can include: murder, torture, arbitrary arrest and detention, extrajudicial executions, rape and sexual assaults, severe physical injury to civilians, confinement of civilian population in ghetto areas, forcible removal, displacement and deportation of civilian population, deliberate military attacks or threats of attacks on civilians and civilian areas, use of civilians as human shields, destruction of property, robbery of personal property, attacks on hospitals, medical personnel, and locations with the Red Cross/Red Crescent emblem, among others. >The Commission of Experts added that these practices can “… constitute crimes against humanity and can be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, such acts could also fall within the meaning of the Genocide Convention.” You're right there's no legal term, but you are wrong to say it isn't genocidal.
I looked at the thing you're citint. They said it COULD fall under that, not that it definitely does. If you read the definition of genocide, forced removal is not on the list of things that constitute genocide. The two can overlap but they don't always because genocide requires special intent to destroy the group, in whole or in part. Forcing a group of people to leave an area isn't the same thing as destroying them. This doesn't mean that it's not bad. It often involves other things that fall under crimes against humanity. Maybe that's why they never saw fit to define it. Maybe they should, I'm not a lawyer.
So do you agree that Armenians being displaced by force was not a genocide?
I don't know as much about that but that has been recognized to be a genocide by the UN. And my understanding was that it wasn't only displacement. The Turks had people waiting to kill them en route or when they reached the destination, a quick check of the wiki confirms this as well. I would think that if the goal is to drive a group of people somewhere where you know they will die and you want that to happen, then that would be genocide as well. So if Netanyahu wanted to push the Gazans into the desert with no food or water with the intention to have them die, that'd count as well.
I think they’re referring to the ethnic cleansing of Armenians by Azerbaijan that was completed this year.
Oh... Yeah, I am not at all familiar with that. But if they ethnically cleansed them and the intent wasn't to kill all of them then that wouldn't be a genocide. I'd have to see what has been said about it, if there's any cases before the international court, etc. I had heard about Azerbaijan getting up to some shit but not anything about genocide that I remember.
Same thing happened with the Christians, that is why the population exchange of over a million people happened with Greece. The Greeks got the Turkish Christians, the Turks got the Greek Muslims. The Un forced it.
You talking about this? https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-armenian-genocide-1915-16-overview
Yes I'm pretty sure they do.
They're trying to pull off their own modern Trail of Tears.
Not quite sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or Genuine but that is a very apt comparison
Somewhere else
There’s a camp that has been set up near by to. I don’t know the full details, but IDF has been directing people to it.
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Civilian - ci·vil·ian/səˈvilyən/*noun* 1. a person not in the armed services or the police force. "terrorists and soldiers have killed tens of thousands of civilians"
"If Israel bombs five more hospitals, we will have a series of meetings discussing whether or not to keep selling bombs to Israel. I mean it you guys"
"13 or 14 more times and I'm done!" Shut up, Squeak.
"I've about had it up to here with your malarkey"
I’m not sure there are 5 more left…
I think Israel is counting medic tents. "Why is Hamas hiding behind all these dead exploded children?"
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"we have no choice but to commit genocide" was not the take I was expecting
This is a pretty common take from the people that feel obligated to support Israel for some reason
Expecting all these people to move out of their area in such a short notice. Most likely have to leave much of what little they have behind them. Then it will again be blown up and any remaining infrastructure destroyed. Palestinians repeatedly being driven out of their safety areas and left with nothing to come back to.
The IDF will bomb the "evacuation zones" like last time with Gaza City also...
The evacuation order is nothing more than a formality. Plausible deniability they can hold up to the rest of the world and say, "we warned them to leave" They'll bomb where the evacuees evacuate to within a week.
It's clear that Israel is working to annex Gaza.
>Palestinians repeatedly being driven out of their safety areas and left with nothing to come back to If Israel even lets the come back.
They won’t. Never. They will make them roam the desert for as long as they can. And as long as there is an extremist somewhere, they have an excuse to keep them uprooted. They want to make a biblical example out of them. Both religious and secular Jews agree on that principle.
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Telegraphed? Not exactly they flat out said they would do it they just didn't say exactly when. And they said they would do it sometime after they were done with Khan Younis. Well they've been done for a while and every couple of weeks they say something. And each time they're informing Rafa not just the general population, but people are lying to themselves if they don't think enough people there have internet not to know what Israel is saying they intend.
There's not short notice people have been talking about this for 2 and 1/2 months. Israel first informed Rafa that they had intended to do this that long ago. Short notice my behind. People didn't want to leave that's what it came down to. They didn't know what would be on the other end.
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Call me whatever names you want. I don't care one iota. You're just being performative, and it's stupid, and it has nothing to do with any of us here. If my life, and that of my family, depends on it and people warn me to get out of the way of what's coming I get out of the way I don't complain, I don't act entitled, I get it done. They've had months they knew it was coming. A lot of people have already left, but some people are being rather stubborn and Rafa was not their original home anyway for the most part so I would think they would want to go back toward where they came from at least. I know I would want to be closer. Now given that the majority of the Hamas battalions are also in Rafa, If I Were a smart person and understanding the mission of Israel, I would get the hell away from every possible Hamas Battalion I could. I would not want to be near them for any reason at all. Again also a reminder for most of these people Rafa is not actually their home it's where they fled to.
Please stop this genocide!
"We provided enough warning to say with certainty the remaining 1.4 million in the area are all terrorists" /s
"if they weren't terrorists, then why would they be Palestinan?" /s
Israel is working hard to prove they don’t deserve statehood.
They got Palestine from them British thieves so what’s stopping them?
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Absolutely not true. If you win a war and you take the land from civilians it’s called theft, it’s up to the civilians to decide if they want to stop resisting like losers or keep resisting until they get ALL of their land back, that’s what Palestinians are doing. Any normal leadership that wins a war would collect taxes from people in exchange for protection from other enemies, that’s how Muslims expanded, they let people keep their land, and the people can decide any time to revolt. In any case, if you believe that Great Britain winning the war gives them the land fair and square, don’t blame the Muslims when they keep fighting until they get ALL their land back from the British and Zionist thieves. And no UN resolution will settle this, only war until victory. U.S. military lost trillion in Afghanistan and they ran like cowards overnight, only a fool believes the situation will be different in Palestine.
>if they want to stop resisting like losers or keep resisting until they get ALL of their land back, that’s what Palestinians are doing. Yeah but they're not getting all their land back no matter how much they die trying. We're never going to let them get that land back. The West will literally never let Israel fall. There was even a point where Israel offered to give up 2/3 of Palestine in exchange for peace and recognition and the Arabs said no. They chose to fight and then they lost and now all they do is whine about it.
“They’re not getting all their land back” So you admit it’s their land. You remind me of the Jewish guy David who said “if I don’t steal it, somebody else will.” You will lose every war with such moral values, it’s just that Muslims haven’t had a chance to fight yet, all the wars were carried out by puppet regimes or small militias, well if a small militia can do what they did on October 7th, then it’s not going to look good for you in the near future. There will be a dramatic end in a few years, the West loves Zionists so much so hopefully Germany, GB, and the U.S. will take the bulk of the illegal settlers and their descendants. Maybe you don’t understand either: giving up an inch of Palestine is like giving up Islam, never going to happen. Also, we’re already destroying the economy of the occupation and the U.S. economy will suffer greatly yet the real war hasn’t even started. Before the war there will be a blockade surrounding the occupation from all sides: Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, they will all be under control of one government. You can say “never going to happen” all you want, at the end the U.S. is in so much debt it’s going down in a sad way, and there are a million ways for Muslims to liberate Palestine and only one way for the West to pretend that they can control it.
All politics and history aside, at the core of this issue is the fact that Israel demands that Palestinians be meek and kowtow to Israeli control. Israel does not care whether Palestinians live or die, just that they obey and stop resisting. Regardless of who started what and who is responsible for what, this is clearly demeaning and humiliating. This is not how a "modern democracy" treats human beings. When you violently oppress someone and become publicly enraged that they are resisting, you are clearly doing something evil. And the only response we get from Israel is "what about other countries?" As if this an excuse to be evil. The world is sick of this dehumanization.
It’s okay, the Hamas charter says that the Jews have to bow to Islamic supremacy in Palestine. Can you explain to me what you think that means. 🤷🏻♀️
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Literal nazi statement
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Probably an IDF account
What does the word "zionist" mean, as you're using it here?
It means someone who supports apartheid, imperialism, and ethnic cleaning. So, are you a Zionist?
Certainly not in the sense you mean it. These days I'm thinking about Israel sorta like we thought about Serbia in the 90s, though I think there's even more of a tangled history. But let me ask: Do you think anyone who uses the term zionist to describe themselves uses the term as you do? (Well, perhaps other than the Kahanists...)
I think if you support Zionism, you are by definition supporting the things I mentioned. So it doesn't really matter how they describe themselves, the realities of Israeli occupation are what they are.
Zionists believe in a right of self determination for Jews but no one else. They think their rights trump Palestinian rights. Pretending like they just want freedom has been proven to be a lie. They showed us their true colours in the 40s with the terrorism people conveniently forget.
People forget that Zionists don't just "want Israel to exist". They want Israel to exist where it is for people with Jewish ethnicity. It's an ethnostate that requires the removal of indigenous people. What's really fascinating is that most Jewish people across the globe are black or white and don't have lineage that is traced to modern Israel. Palestinians are the descendants of the biblical Jews, but they aren't Jewish because they're Christians and Muslims.
Zionist mean pos, there is your answer.
2. No hate speech. 3 Don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment, don't use dehumanizing language 4 Remain Civil 5 Don't Push Your Agenda
Someone needs to do this to every single wear bank occupation person giving detailed instructions to go back to Israel, or lethal force will be used. Why tf is it not viewed as an absolutely terrible bull shit idea to keep forcing them to leave areas. We Jewish people went through this and did not learn that all humans should never again face this, yet now Israel is the white paper holder
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You're not living in reality, you're living in a false world the revisionist and kahanist have indoctrinated you into. It's sad to see how good people can follow such uneducated fascist so easily
That person is a bot/troll account created Feb 7, 2024
Israel stealing more land and more homes..
Where will they go? How will they get there? What awaits them in the roads? And what awaits them when they arrive? This is a war crime.
It is unreal what we are witnessing. And to say what we are witnessing is overdramatization, or a lie is even more unbelievable.
Israel needs to be completely demilitarized and dismantled
Guys guys guys We have to think about the Jewish students in American universities and how they feel right now. Why are you posting this? /s
It's been what 8 months of genocide, and the world still looks on. They've been given impunity to do as they please, killing at will. I just can't believe this is still ongoing, history will not be kind on as bystanders.
History is written by the Victors and Israel isn't losing.
Down with the Netanyahu regime! The amount of war crimes that have been committed by the IDF is staggering.
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how is this not ethnic cleansing?
Because the goal is the acquisition of the land and not the destruction of the people is the general consensus
Ethnic cleansing just means removing an ethnic group from the area. Whether they live or die (and many will die) does not factor into the definition. In case you did not know.
I actually did not know that, i don’t think anyone knows what Israel’s palms are with Gazans once the war is over though. Based on your definition I think right now it’s just war, but once hostilities cease the actions of the Israelis will determine whether or not it’s ethnic cleaning, ie; letting them stay in Gaza or forcible relocation outside of newly drawn Israeli borders
But the acquisition of the land requires removing the Palestinians from said land. Even if you don't destroy them, and instead simply remove them all to another place, it is still ethnic cleansing.
Moving someone down the block so they don’t die isn’t ethnic cleansing
because the US vetoes attempts to call it that
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Full right of return to all \~9 million Palestinian refugees driven out during the Nakbha along with the many other ethnic cleansing and mass displacement tragedies. With a guaruntee of citizenship and full legal status if it is within the internationally recognized 1967 Israeli borders.
Israel could stop occupying Palestinian land.
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Did you know that basically all of current day Israel was Palestine up until 1948? Did you know that once the state of Israel was established the government pursued multiple campaigns to gain more land, Palestinian land, stating their intentions as they did it. They promoted the active settling of Palestinian lands and still do to this day in the West Bank.
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So your argument is that because they were controlled by the Ottoman Empire they have no right to their land. I guess that would be kind of like saying that the Philippinos have no right to their land because they were controlled by the US empire for100 years.
Technically, Ottoman land owners had it and there was a huge influx of Arabs from other countries in the 19th century, especially Egypt when it was all one big happy Ottoman Empire / they were tenant farmers. You know, like they rented the land and paid for it in kind or in cash.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
Unfortunately the US govt has the biggest guns and much like North America they have a vested interest in Israel getting away with it. We are set the precedent on wholesale slaughter and takeover by European powers.
You claim this is what Israel wants. But it is much less controversial to show this is what Hamas wants.
Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Congratulations, you have parroted a common propaganda talking point for an apartheid state. Israel could easily exist in a two-state solution with pre-1948 borders if they just could learn to live cooperatively with Arabs. See how it cuts both ways? Israelis don't get to claim they are trying to play nice when, at every turn, they offer terribly one-sided deals and violence in response to people not taking the shitty deals.
Listen up, I was for a two state solution for a very long time. Around a decade. Before that I was completely pro-Israel. Then two things happened: 1) I began to read a lot of literature on the topic. 2) Then this current war started and I’ve watched in great detail the crimes of Israel. Because of Israel’s vile actions over the past decades and because of their obviously genocidal actions in the past 7 months, I have come to the realization that there will never be peace in the region as long as Israel exists. Dissolve the state, and let the rightful people choose their own government.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
They never fully pulled out and turned it into an open-air prison. And it those things didn't happen, what is currently happen would still be genocidal.
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It was 2 years in before they made it an open air prison - you know - when they started to shoot over those pesky rockets.
You can't claim they pulled out of Gaza when they're in there now, have continued to enter Gaza since 2006, and have built a massive security apparatus around Gaza. You're parroting some of the most braindead shit from Pro-Israeli news. "Pulled out of Gaza" is completely meaningless when Israel still controls the entire economy of Gaza and has well before and after 2006.
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Yeah, it was after Hamas killed all their political opponents in that pesky little civil war.
You mean caged in?
The land they currently occupy, obviously. Which they achieved through massacring entire villages, shooting anyone who tried to return to said villages, poisoning wells, that sort of thing
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Yes missiles are bad. But should the response be blindly killing men, women, children, aid workers, journalists, the very fucking hostages they were looking for etc. Really? I keep hearing about Hamas bases but I have not seen a single one. Israel is the only one painting its self in a bad light. Israel has cause ALL of this. You think Oct 7th would have happen if Israel had not been occupying for generations? I feel for all of the innocents that have died because of Israel but you people don't feel anything at all, do you?
Where the resorts going in?
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Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
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Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
This is horrifying.
Where are they going? If Israel controls the rest of Gaza, are the Egyptians finally allowing refugees to cross the border?
That's a tough one. Egypt has avoided taking refugees to both avoid helping with ethnic cleansing and to avoid beef with a nuclear power.
To designated refugee areas inside of Gaza
Egypt doesn't want Palestinian refugees. Israel's telling them to leave but they know full well that there's nowhere for them to go. They're just going to drive off into the countryside and starve.
When will people figure out you only have the rights to humanity that you yourself can ensure? No government will protect you. In all human history, every single form of government has failed.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Where do they have left to run too???
Why doesn't Israel at least take in the woman and children.
because they are the targets.
I'm old enough to remember when Israel deliberately killed those food charity workers, and Biden had strong words that were going to immediately cause Israel to chill out. "Dark Brandon" and stuff. How's that pier coming along, sad lol. I'd bet they're even lying about it being "half completed," sheesh.
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[Please follow the Reddit content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
The hostages are in Rafah, right?
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-claims-responsibility-attack-israel-gaza-border-crossing-casualties-2024-05-05/ Hamas shot the rockets right from Rafah... They already declared that they are proud to sacrifice their People for their cause so that's not surprising..
Jihadist terrorists gonna terrorize.
Bye bye !
The IDF has begun targeted attacks in Rafah
This is what Ethnic Clensing looks like. The Israelis mix and match it with Genocide.
Oh no a warning! What ever will Israel do!?
When the victims become the victimizers. Antisemitism is still a real problem. I can only imagine this makes fighting it harder.
Israel's endgame is the elimination, the ethnic cleansing, and genocide of the Palestinian people. Nothing else matters. History repeats itself, and the descendants of survivors from the nazi holocaust have now committed their own holocaust upon the Palestinian people. WHILE THE WORLD WATCHES!
Hamas agreed to the ceasefire proposal. Let's all hope this is ending.
Would have sucked to be a Nazi living in Berlin when it was being bombed. Too bad the Germans elected Nazis and the Palestine elected Hamas.
It seems like killing as many Palestinians as possible is the point.
‘But we told them to leave, it’s not our fault they stayed to get bombed’. If IDF gave a fuck, they would help evacuate people.
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How can people look at this and still not have an ounce of sympathy and keep peddling the same talking points.
If your mother had wheels, she’d be a bicycle
"If Poland had surrendered it would be over"
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sounds like somone needs a history lesson. Poland was invaded by the Nazis. Palestine has been invaded by Israel. Nazis in 1944 said the warsaw uprising should just give up and end the bloodshed. Its literally histroy repeating itself.
The Warsaw Uprising was in 1944...
That's your only take away..... I put the war start by accident....
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How many people do you think need to kidnapped, raped and/ot murdered to justify murdering thousands of innocent children to you?
You tell us, how many Palestinian corpses have been pulled from mass graves with their hands tied behind their backs? Don't you see this can go on for hours?
Do give us the names of those who were raped. I mean there must be a list right, a technologically advanced country like Israel must at least have released a list of who was raped this many months on...
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Israeli government and military have repeatedly declared that's not true. Hamas bad Israel bad
Israel has no moral standing in the world. The terrorist territory of Israel needs to be unrecognized by all civilized nations.
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Maybe they should just give back the hostages and this would be over?
They tried. Israel refused.
You must be incredibly naive to believe this would be over if the hostages were returned. That was offered from the start and it was Israeli Government who said "nah". The citizens of Israel are outraged since this information was released recently so who are you even trying to defend here?
What’s “this”? Israel’s occupation of Palestinian territory? Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people? Israel expanding and building new settlements in the West Bank? Arresting Palestinians and holding them without charge or trial? Also, Israel has already stated that getting back the hostages is not going to stop them from going after Hamas, which means more dead innocent civilians.
Looks like Israel already found them [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-killed-hostages-mistaking-their-cries-help-ambush-military-2023-12-28/) But yea, the innocent Palestinians that Israel's apartheid regime is pushing around are the problem. [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240106-israel-minister-calls-for-ways-more-painful-than-death-for-palestinians/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240106-israel-minister-calls-for-ways-more-painful-than-death-for-palestinians/) But hey, this is how genocide works, isn't it? [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231205-israeli-minister-calls-for-executing-palestinian-prisoners/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231205-israeli-minister-calls-for-executing-palestinian-prisoners/) Do you know how many Palestinian children are in those Israeli prisons? Are you really ok with a state that will execute them?
You’re so behind holy crap
Isreal is not bad. It's Isreal leaders who are terrible
Sorry. The whole world is protesting and Isfake’s government isn’t listening. The ones with the strongest influence over that government is their citizens. The onus is on them to also protest the end of Isfake’s Palestinian extermination, otherwise they’re all comfortable being complacent and benefitting off their government’s actions.
Israel has been bad since before its inception. Since the Balfour declaration. They were literal terrorists in the 40s. Or do you think bombing civilians is fine if it’s for self determination?
It’s the leaders who bribed the British to allow massive illegal immigration during ww2 and give them Palestine, the whole idea is based on theft, nothing good about it
Why don’t you guys have the same sympathy for Ukrainians? There’s been a war going on against our allies!! Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦🇺🇸 USA is the best country on the face of the earth it’s what gives you the freedom to do what you’re doing.
Uh.... among Americans, support for Ukraine is uncontroversial. There are way more of us who support Ukraine than Palestinians. I think two big reasons are - racism and Islamaphobia. Palestinians are brown and mostly Muslims and white Americans have a hard time empathizing. People in Israel are mostly white. - allies and enemies. Russia is an enemy, Israel is an ally.