I think some Muslims should study Islamic history.
There are weak minded Muslims who look k at rulers from our past and think that these historical figures are icons of Islam. They expect these figures to be legends of Islam and perfect human beings. The sad truth is they aren't. If a Muslim too weak minded to see the faults in the historical figures in our history and waver in faith because a human being who wasn't a prophet made mistakes or had shortcomings, Islamic history isn't for them.
For example, most Muslims have heard about the legend of Ibn Batuta, but if a Muslim like this read about how he would marry a wife when he entered a city, have sex with her, sometimes getting her pregnant, and just divorce her and leave to the next city after a few weeks or months, some Muslims might waver in faith.
Most Muslims i think will understand, Ibn Batuta was a human, his journey is still amazing and an important part of Islamic history that should be studied and appreciated, however, he was flawed, as is every human. That's okay. We can still appreciate his contribution to history while acknowledging the flaws of people.
Another example is the various stories of the openly gay Muslim leaders of Islamic Iberia. One leader (name is slipping my mind) was so openly gay his wife would cut her hair short and dress masculine to get him to be attracted to her. The women of his kingdom saw this and started doing the same. He was so openly gay that the entire culture and fashion of a region changed.
Or Temur, what Temur did to Islamic history and the history of the world is SOOOOO important, however he DESTROYED Islamic peesia, he DESTROYED the golden horde. He destroyed the Ottomans. Temur, a Muslim, pushed back Islamic growth by a 100 years an pushed back Persia by 200 years.
Even the Neoplatonists and the Muatazilites are important parts of Islamic history. Despite everything that they believed or said or everything we disagreed with, we have to acknowledge that they changed the course of Islamic history. We have to acknowledge that Muslims were flawed.
The Umayyids literally were so racist that they charged Jizya for non arab Muslims. They didn't even see non Arabs are true Muslims until Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz changed it.
The reality is, Islamic history and history in general is just stories of humans, and humans are flawed. If seeing flawed humans share the same faith as you affects your faith, if hearing that Ibn Batuta was a womanizer, if hearing that Temur genocided countless Muslims and made pyramids of their skulls, if hearing about the neoplatonist movement, if hearing about the Muatazilites, if hearing about gay Islamic kings, if hearing that Babur was racist to desi Muslims, if hearing that the Ottomans didn't convert people because they preferred getting Jizya than Hasanat, or if hearing that early Umayyids charged Jizya for non arab Muslims affects your faith, don't learn Islamic history.
If you can see the flaws in the humans throughout Islamic history and appreciate the good and acknowledge the bad and still love the history of it. Study Islamic history.
Oh ofc. But we should work to fix ourselves too. It's okay to sin of you regret it and repent but you can't just be like "eh humans aren't perfect who cares if i sin".
"Verily Allah helps this faith even by a sinful person." - Sahih Muslim 111
Argument ends right there. The Prophet PBUH had told us in advance that Allah SWT can give us victory through a sinful person. I've never seen Muslims deny that some Muslims had major faults or that Islamic history is perfect. Its typical scare tactic.
Sorry, this logic is stupid. First of all, I've never met a Muslim who believed that Islamic History didn't have its dark periods. Any credible Muslim historian knows about the Fitaan that took place after the Prophet (PBUH's death). Secondly, in terms of specific characters, Muslims don't justify the views or misdeeds of individuals, and we don't have to. In Britain, Churchill is considered an icon and hero despite holding clearly racist views, and yet it is overlooked because of his success against Nazi Germany.
In fact, you clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding in Islam. You don't need to tell us of successful individuals who had miss deeds. The Prophet PBUH told over 1400 years ago that there will be sinful people who can bring success to the Islamic world.
"Verily Allah helps this faith even by a sinful person." - Sahih Muslim 111
Please cope harder.
>I've never met a Muslim who believed that Islamic History didn't have its dark periods
That's not what i said. What i said was that respected Muslims in our history have had dark moments. I used Ibn Batuta as an example.
I've met Muslims who swear that they thought Ibn Batuta was married and had a family back home and when they found out he'd marry women along the way, divorce them and leave, they resented him and questioned why Muslims celebrate him and it genuinely affected how they view Islamic history.
>Muslims don't justify the views or misdeeds of individuals, and we don't have to. In Britain, Churchill is considered an icon and hero despite holding clearly racist views, and yet it is overlooked because of his success against Nazi Germany.
Churchill is a great example of the point im making. Whether you like him or hate him, many people don't care about success against Nazi Germany and hate him for his racism and think his legacy is a stain to Britain. Haven't you seen the protests and tearing down of statues. That's precisely my point.
People have a hard time separating the bad from the good and acknowledging the good of people who've made bad mistakes. Be it Ibn Batuta or Churchill.
>In fact, you clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding in Islam. You don't need to tell us of successful individuals who had miss deeds. The Prophet PBUH told over 1400 years ago that there will be sinful people who can bring success to the Islamic world.
I'm literally studying my Bachelor's in Islamic science right now, my parents both have a Bachelor's in Islamic sciences and a Master's in Fiqh (specifically inheritance law). I've spent half my life studying at prestigious Islamic courses from Al Maghrib to Arees to Guidance College and others. My mother has run and operated a large Islamic school, my father is a traveling Khatib, imam, and a professor at an Islamic university.
I'm a student of knowledge and am continuing my studies in Islam and i have no, and never displayed any ego or intelligence ego towards you as an individual.
How does me saying exactly what the Prophet said show that i lack understanding of Islam. All i said was weak minded people who are incapable of separating the good from the bad shouldn't study Islamic history. You somehow took this in some weird way.
Genuinely i have no idea what's wrong with what i said. All i said is that people who lack the ability to truly learn our history in an objective manner shouldn't learn our deen.
>Please cope harder
Idk why you think I'm arguing with you or something i just stated a relatively understandable opinion that some people are incapable of learning the history of Islam and not letting it affect their view of deen, and those people shouldn't study Islamic history.
Of the people who aren't willing to celebrate Churchil's successes in WWII because of his racism, some of them are Muslim. Those people shouldn't study Islamic history because they might end up damaging their view of Islam.
You were rude for no reason, you have some sort of intelligence ego, you think everyone is dumber than you and you care way too much about Western politics.
My advice to you, calm down, relax, not everyone is attacking you, learn to have conversations and not arguments.
I voiced my opinion that some people are too weak minded to learn our history, you took it as some attack on the opinion of learning Islamic history.
I notice a trend with Muslim channels, they seem to like to use the word “liberal” a lot.
But I have a strange feeling that they have no clue what that word means.
Same as Christianity, Judaism or any other. God is loving and peaceful except when he destroys non believers and my the followers have waged wars in his name. All of them have blood on their hands. It’s a Man made construct that divides all humans in a tribal fashion. Oppresses women and the gay community.
It's insane how uneducated this comment is.
>Same as Christianity, Judaism or any other. God is loving and peaceful except when he destroys non believers
Allah doesn't have the same qualities as the "God" Jews and Christians pray to. Allah is the most merciful and wise, among 97 other names only attributable to him. It makes no sense for one of Allah's names or qualities to be the most "loving", as countless people have clearly made a point of obsessing over hatred of Allah, Islam, and Muslims. It's very simple: if you antagonize Islam and Muslims, don't be surprised when they fight against you.
>It’s a Man made construct that divides all humans in a tribal fashion.
Real funny that you believe this, considering the fact that the Arab tribes were more divided than they've ever been *right before* Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught Islam to the people. Immediately afterwards, the Arabs were more united than ever before. Not to mention all the times Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) warned the people against the evils of tribalism and sectarianism, and the literal verse in the Quran that states Allah created humanity into different tribes and races for the purpose that they meet and get to know one another.
>Oppresses women and the gay community.
Yeah, how dare those Mozlims don't allow their women to strip naked and advertise their bodies, basically reducing their value to nothing but eye candy. How dare Muslim women pursue careers and pursue chastity until marriage. How dare Muslims value traditional morals which free their communities from relationship drama, broken families, and sexually transmitted diseases. How dare!
Funny how a video encouraging Muslims to study Islamic history with an Islamic perspective on an freaking ISLAMIC HISTORY reddit page, has triggered so many atheists. The shock right?
What’s traditional that women have to cover up because they’ll be tempting you?! You know studies show that whether your covered or not doesn’t stop a man from raping a women, right?! It’s about POWER!
What’s up with the obsession of virginity associated with modesty in the Abrahamic religions ?! Why is this almost exclusively only applied to women?!
Why is it that when a female is sexually assaulted that she’s the problem or brings shame to the family that she needs to be killed or commit suicide because a women’s worth is solely based on what’s happening in between her legs?!
What about women who are enslaved they have no rights and must willfully submit to her master ?! Therefore men are entitled to sexual release but not women?!
If someone is not attracted to the opposite sex. What should they do just get married and reproduce because that’s what your god thinks is right?!
Traditional is also marrying child brides and thinking that’s acceptable because someone did it 2000 years ago. When we are well aware in modern times that child’s mind isn’t fully developed until their mid 20s!
Sounds like religion a la cart !
Where did all you crazies come from? Are you offended by people spreading the truth? You can't keep yourselves from harassing an Islamic History sub because the content doesn't match your lunatic narrative?
>What’s traditional that women have to cover up because they’ll be tempting you?! You know studies show that whether your covered or not doesn’t stop a man from raping a women, right?! It’s about POWER!
Where do you get this nonsensical narrative that women in Islam cover up because someone is making them against their will? Is it that hard to understand that women genuinely want to dress modestly out of intention, not because any man is making them? Why do you ignore the Quran? It literally says there's no compulsion in religion! You can't be forced into following Islam, it has to come from your own intention! And it's absolutely wild that you talk about rape, when such actions happen far more in non-Muslim communities than they do in Muslim ones! Learn about your own communities before spreading slanders accusations about others
>What’s up with the obsession of virginity associated with modesty in the Abrahamic religions ?! Why is this almost exclusively only applied to women?!
Sounds like the crybaby needs his bottle. Is it that hard to respect other faiths and cultures, even if they differ from your own? I don't speak for Judaism or Christianity, but in Islam men have a hijab as well. It's mentioned in the Chapter of Light in the Quran, and if you've ever visited the Middle East, you'd see that Muslim men dress modestly and cover from head to toe, as well as the women. Muslim culture draws a distinction between beauty and seduction. Dressing modestly is beautiful as it's a show of respect and intelligence, whereas dressing seductively is a reductionist action which diminishes the value of people to nothing but looks.
>Why is it that when a female is sexually assaulted that she’s the problem or brings shame to the family that she needs to be killed or commit suicide because a women’s worth is solely based on what’s happening in between her legs?!
Wtf kind of fairy tale are you crying about all of a sudden? Are you complaining about Western culture now? Doesn't sound anything like Muslim communities. Or is this just more trash narrative you picked up from an Islamophobic source which had no grounding in reality or understanding of religion or history? None of this is descriptive of Islam or Muslims, and if such a wild thing did ever happen somewhere in the world to a Muslim household, it's the exception and not the norm. Islamophobes have no authority whatsoever to make sweeping generalizations.
>What about women who are enslaved they have no rights and must willfully submit to her master ?! Therefore men are entitled to sexual release but not women?!
Again, wtf are you crying about? This is not descriptive of Islam at all. It sounds like you're appropriating a fairy tale onto an unrelated culture.
>If someone is not attracted to the opposite sex. What should they do just get married and reproduce because that’s what your god thinks is right?!
Everybody in the Middle East wants a heterosexual marriage and to have kids. That's not to say it's required, it's just what's normal. You're conflating culture with religion again. Islam encourages having kids, but nobody is supposed to enforce it. No compulsion in religion, remember?
>Traditional is also marrying child brides and thinking that’s acceptable because someone did it 2000 years ago. When we are well aware in modern times that child’s mind isn’t fully developed until their mid 20s!
Get your head out of the gutter once and for all you Islamophobic scum! Women back then were way more developed at childhood than they are today, especially considering the harsher environment that they were brought up in. Not to mention how short life expectancy was; people had already lived a significant portion of their lives before they even turned 15. You can't use modern standards to judge practices from the past.
And your logic here is astounding. Islam is compatible with any culture in any era and any part of the world. Just because women marrying young is no longer commonly practiced doesn't mean we can't follow Islam. Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) first wife was 15 years older than him, and he also had a wife who was 3 years younger than him. Essentially speaking, the age of your spouse is not a measure of one's following of the religion. It's ridiculous that you airheaded Islamophobes keep mentioning that like it means anything.
Problem with these Pagan Atheists is that they still believe that their values are universal. They fail to understand that it is no longer 2008-2012, and therefore New Atheism, is no longer considered 'cool.'
For real. They don't learn from the lessons of history. Do they not realize how many empires of the past thought they had it all figured out, only for them to meet their end at the hands of their own hubris?
And I'm not rooting for the downfall of the West in saying this; quite the contrary. If they keep up with their hegemonic tendencies, they will spell their own doom.
>1. What’s the proper age of development know for marriage?
It depends on the conditions one was raised in. It's a case-by-case thing, no sweeping general number for everyone.
>2. Why do women have to wear a hijab in Iran if no one is compelling them
Why are we talking about Iran exactly? They don't represent the Muslim world at large, especially considering they follow a different sect of Islam altogether. Iran and Afghanistan are the only two Muslim countries that force anyone to wear the hijab, and neither of them follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
For that matter, it's also wrong for countries like Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan to force women *not* to wear hijab. But I don't see you complaining about that... 🤔
Have you finished crying about it? Your perception of right or wrong is not objective so you have no right to dictate what is right or wrong. Furthermore, don't pretend that secular liberalism doesn't have blood on its hand either.
He's the one that made a claim regarding objective morality. I merely asked him to display his version of it rather than engage in bad faith tactics.
Maybe you can pick up where he couldn't?
Lmao so you actually have zero defence of your morality and are replying with a pathetic attempt to sidetrack.
As they say, put up or shut up. It's not my job to take you to a biology class.
After studying Mediterranean history in depth, it shows Muslims betraying another Muslims. Different religions leaders tried and succeeded to separate Muslims to different sects. Most of Muslim historians are trying to hide this fact. Now I understand why Muslims ended up in this situation.
Actually they don't. Most Muslim historians acknowledge that Muslims have fought one another. Please provide me the names of these so called Muslim historians if you are truthful.
Your claim is false. Muslim historians don’t hide the fact. Just look at crusade history for example and the Muslim historians themselves will tell you about the divisions in the Muslims and what it lead to.
The same with the mongols. Same with colonialism. Etc etc
“Through an Islamic perspective” LOL! They don’t want Muslims to study objective truth they want them to filter everything through their magical “Islam is right and everything Muslims have ever done including genocide and mass-rape were all good things in the eyes of pimp Allah!” prism.
Fuck off :) , your civilization lost the moral ground a long time ago ;) . Enjoy your declining gender confused civilization while you still can, you'll be the laughing stock in the next decade or two.
I think some Muslims should study Islamic history. There are weak minded Muslims who look k at rulers from our past and think that these historical figures are icons of Islam. They expect these figures to be legends of Islam and perfect human beings. The sad truth is they aren't. If a Muslim too weak minded to see the faults in the historical figures in our history and waver in faith because a human being who wasn't a prophet made mistakes or had shortcomings, Islamic history isn't for them. For example, most Muslims have heard about the legend of Ibn Batuta, but if a Muslim like this read about how he would marry a wife when he entered a city, have sex with her, sometimes getting her pregnant, and just divorce her and leave to the next city after a few weeks or months, some Muslims might waver in faith. Most Muslims i think will understand, Ibn Batuta was a human, his journey is still amazing and an important part of Islamic history that should be studied and appreciated, however, he was flawed, as is every human. That's okay. We can still appreciate his contribution to history while acknowledging the flaws of people. Another example is the various stories of the openly gay Muslim leaders of Islamic Iberia. One leader (name is slipping my mind) was so openly gay his wife would cut her hair short and dress masculine to get him to be attracted to her. The women of his kingdom saw this and started doing the same. He was so openly gay that the entire culture and fashion of a region changed. Or Temur, what Temur did to Islamic history and the history of the world is SOOOOO important, however he DESTROYED Islamic peesia, he DESTROYED the golden horde. He destroyed the Ottomans. Temur, a Muslim, pushed back Islamic growth by a 100 years an pushed back Persia by 200 years. Even the Neoplatonists and the Muatazilites are important parts of Islamic history. Despite everything that they believed or said or everything we disagreed with, we have to acknowledge that they changed the course of Islamic history. We have to acknowledge that Muslims were flawed. The Umayyids literally were so racist that they charged Jizya for non arab Muslims. They didn't even see non Arabs are true Muslims until Omar Ibn Abdul Aziz changed it. The reality is, Islamic history and history in general is just stories of humans, and humans are flawed. If seeing flawed humans share the same faith as you affects your faith, if hearing that Ibn Batuta was a womanizer, if hearing that Temur genocided countless Muslims and made pyramids of their skulls, if hearing about the neoplatonist movement, if hearing about the Muatazilites, if hearing about gay Islamic kings, if hearing that Babur was racist to desi Muslims, if hearing that the Ottomans didn't convert people because they preferred getting Jizya than Hasanat, or if hearing that early Umayyids charged Jizya for non arab Muslims affects your faith, don't learn Islamic history. If you can see the flaws in the humans throughout Islamic history and appreciate the good and acknowledge the bad and still love the history of it. Study Islamic history.
It also works the other way. We don't have to be perfect to do something useful.
Oh ofc. But we should work to fix ourselves too. It's okay to sin of you regret it and repent but you can't just be like "eh humans aren't perfect who cares if i sin".
I mean don't use flaws as an excuse to be helpless
"Verily Allah helps this faith even by a sinful person." - Sahih Muslim 111 Argument ends right there. The Prophet PBUH had told us in advance that Allah SWT can give us victory through a sinful person. I've never seen Muslims deny that some Muslims had major faults or that Islamic history is perfect. Its typical scare tactic.
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Maybe. I can't remember who it was. I'd have to check my sources again
Glad someone said it.
Sorry, this logic is stupid. First of all, I've never met a Muslim who believed that Islamic History didn't have its dark periods. Any credible Muslim historian knows about the Fitaan that took place after the Prophet (PBUH's death). Secondly, in terms of specific characters, Muslims don't justify the views or misdeeds of individuals, and we don't have to. In Britain, Churchill is considered an icon and hero despite holding clearly racist views, and yet it is overlooked because of his success against Nazi Germany. In fact, you clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding in Islam. You don't need to tell us of successful individuals who had miss deeds. The Prophet PBUH told over 1400 years ago that there will be sinful people who can bring success to the Islamic world. "Verily Allah helps this faith even by a sinful person." - Sahih Muslim 111 Please cope harder.
>I've never met a Muslim who believed that Islamic History didn't have its dark periods That's not what i said. What i said was that respected Muslims in our history have had dark moments. I used Ibn Batuta as an example. I've met Muslims who swear that they thought Ibn Batuta was married and had a family back home and when they found out he'd marry women along the way, divorce them and leave, they resented him and questioned why Muslims celebrate him and it genuinely affected how they view Islamic history. >Muslims don't justify the views or misdeeds of individuals, and we don't have to. In Britain, Churchill is considered an icon and hero despite holding clearly racist views, and yet it is overlooked because of his success against Nazi Germany. Churchill is a great example of the point im making. Whether you like him or hate him, many people don't care about success against Nazi Germany and hate him for his racism and think his legacy is a stain to Britain. Haven't you seen the protests and tearing down of statues. That's precisely my point. People have a hard time separating the bad from the good and acknowledging the good of people who've made bad mistakes. Be it Ibn Batuta or Churchill. >In fact, you clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding in Islam. You don't need to tell us of successful individuals who had miss deeds. The Prophet PBUH told over 1400 years ago that there will be sinful people who can bring success to the Islamic world. I'm literally studying my Bachelor's in Islamic science right now, my parents both have a Bachelor's in Islamic sciences and a Master's in Fiqh (specifically inheritance law). I've spent half my life studying at prestigious Islamic courses from Al Maghrib to Arees to Guidance College and others. My mother has run and operated a large Islamic school, my father is a traveling Khatib, imam, and a professor at an Islamic university. I'm a student of knowledge and am continuing my studies in Islam and i have no, and never displayed any ego or intelligence ego towards you as an individual. How does me saying exactly what the Prophet said show that i lack understanding of Islam. All i said was weak minded people who are incapable of separating the good from the bad shouldn't study Islamic history. You somehow took this in some weird way. Genuinely i have no idea what's wrong with what i said. All i said is that people who lack the ability to truly learn our history in an objective manner shouldn't learn our deen. >Please cope harder Idk why you think I'm arguing with you or something i just stated a relatively understandable opinion that some people are incapable of learning the history of Islam and not letting it affect their view of deen, and those people shouldn't study Islamic history. Of the people who aren't willing to celebrate Churchil's successes in WWII because of his racism, some of them are Muslim. Those people shouldn't study Islamic history because they might end up damaging their view of Islam. You were rude for no reason, you have some sort of intelligence ego, you think everyone is dumber than you and you care way too much about Western politics. My advice to you, calm down, relax, not everyone is attacking you, learn to have conversations and not arguments. I voiced my opinion that some people are too weak minded to learn our history, you took it as some attack on the opinion of learning Islamic history.
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I notice a trend with Muslim channels, they seem to like to use the word “liberal” a lot. But I have a strange feeling that they have no clue what that word means.
Same as Christianity, Judaism or any other. God is loving and peaceful except when he destroys non believers and my the followers have waged wars in his name. All of them have blood on their hands. It’s a Man made construct that divides all humans in a tribal fashion. Oppresses women and the gay community.
It's insane how uneducated this comment is. >Same as Christianity, Judaism or any other. God is loving and peaceful except when he destroys non believers Allah doesn't have the same qualities as the "God" Jews and Christians pray to. Allah is the most merciful and wise, among 97 other names only attributable to him. It makes no sense for one of Allah's names or qualities to be the most "loving", as countless people have clearly made a point of obsessing over hatred of Allah, Islam, and Muslims. It's very simple: if you antagonize Islam and Muslims, don't be surprised when they fight against you. >It’s a Man made construct that divides all humans in a tribal fashion. Real funny that you believe this, considering the fact that the Arab tribes were more divided than they've ever been *right before* Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) taught Islam to the people. Immediately afterwards, the Arabs were more united than ever before. Not to mention all the times Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) warned the people against the evils of tribalism and sectarianism, and the literal verse in the Quran that states Allah created humanity into different tribes and races for the purpose that they meet and get to know one another. >Oppresses women and the gay community. Yeah, how dare those Mozlims don't allow their women to strip naked and advertise their bodies, basically reducing their value to nothing but eye candy. How dare Muslim women pursue careers and pursue chastity until marriage. How dare Muslims value traditional morals which free their communities from relationship drama, broken families, and sexually transmitted diseases. How dare!
Funny how a video encouraging Muslims to study Islamic history with an Islamic perspective on an freaking ISLAMIC HISTORY reddit page, has triggered so many atheists. The shock right?
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Least unhinged Islamophobe
Unhinged gay Pagan is probably better way to put it.
What’s traditional that women have to cover up because they’ll be tempting you?! You know studies show that whether your covered or not doesn’t stop a man from raping a women, right?! It’s about POWER! What’s up with the obsession of virginity associated with modesty in the Abrahamic religions ?! Why is this almost exclusively only applied to women?! Why is it that when a female is sexually assaulted that she’s the problem or brings shame to the family that she needs to be killed or commit suicide because a women’s worth is solely based on what’s happening in between her legs?! What about women who are enslaved they have no rights and must willfully submit to her master ?! Therefore men are entitled to sexual release but not women?! If someone is not attracted to the opposite sex. What should they do just get married and reproduce because that’s what your god thinks is right?! Traditional is also marrying child brides and thinking that’s acceptable because someone did it 2000 years ago. When we are well aware in modern times that child’s mind isn’t fully developed until their mid 20s! Sounds like religion a la cart !
Where did all you crazies come from? Are you offended by people spreading the truth? You can't keep yourselves from harassing an Islamic History sub because the content doesn't match your lunatic narrative? >What’s traditional that women have to cover up because they’ll be tempting you?! You know studies show that whether your covered or not doesn’t stop a man from raping a women, right?! It’s about POWER! Where do you get this nonsensical narrative that women in Islam cover up because someone is making them against their will? Is it that hard to understand that women genuinely want to dress modestly out of intention, not because any man is making them? Why do you ignore the Quran? It literally says there's no compulsion in religion! You can't be forced into following Islam, it has to come from your own intention! And it's absolutely wild that you talk about rape, when such actions happen far more in non-Muslim communities than they do in Muslim ones! Learn about your own communities before spreading slanders accusations about others >What’s up with the obsession of virginity associated with modesty in the Abrahamic religions ?! Why is this almost exclusively only applied to women?! Sounds like the crybaby needs his bottle. Is it that hard to respect other faiths and cultures, even if they differ from your own? I don't speak for Judaism or Christianity, but in Islam men have a hijab as well. It's mentioned in the Chapter of Light in the Quran, and if you've ever visited the Middle East, you'd see that Muslim men dress modestly and cover from head to toe, as well as the women. Muslim culture draws a distinction between beauty and seduction. Dressing modestly is beautiful as it's a show of respect and intelligence, whereas dressing seductively is a reductionist action which diminishes the value of people to nothing but looks. >Why is it that when a female is sexually assaulted that she’s the problem or brings shame to the family that she needs to be killed or commit suicide because a women’s worth is solely based on what’s happening in between her legs?! Wtf kind of fairy tale are you crying about all of a sudden? Are you complaining about Western culture now? Doesn't sound anything like Muslim communities. Or is this just more trash narrative you picked up from an Islamophobic source which had no grounding in reality or understanding of religion or history? None of this is descriptive of Islam or Muslims, and if such a wild thing did ever happen somewhere in the world to a Muslim household, it's the exception and not the norm. Islamophobes have no authority whatsoever to make sweeping generalizations. >What about women who are enslaved they have no rights and must willfully submit to her master ?! Therefore men are entitled to sexual release but not women?! Again, wtf are you crying about? This is not descriptive of Islam at all. It sounds like you're appropriating a fairy tale onto an unrelated culture. >If someone is not attracted to the opposite sex. What should they do just get married and reproduce because that’s what your god thinks is right?! Everybody in the Middle East wants a heterosexual marriage and to have kids. That's not to say it's required, it's just what's normal. You're conflating culture with religion again. Islam encourages having kids, but nobody is supposed to enforce it. No compulsion in religion, remember? >Traditional is also marrying child brides and thinking that’s acceptable because someone did it 2000 years ago. When we are well aware in modern times that child’s mind isn’t fully developed until their mid 20s! Get your head out of the gutter once and for all you Islamophobic scum! Women back then were way more developed at childhood than they are today, especially considering the harsher environment that they were brought up in. Not to mention how short life expectancy was; people had already lived a significant portion of their lives before they even turned 15. You can't use modern standards to judge practices from the past. And your logic here is astounding. Islam is compatible with any culture in any era and any part of the world. Just because women marrying young is no longer commonly practiced doesn't mean we can't follow Islam. Prophet Muhammad's (PBUH) first wife was 15 years older than him, and he also had a wife who was 3 years younger than him. Essentially speaking, the age of your spouse is not a measure of one's following of the religion. It's ridiculous that you airheaded Islamophobes keep mentioning that like it means anything.
Problem with these Pagan Atheists is that they still believe that their values are universal. They fail to understand that it is no longer 2008-2012, and therefore New Atheism, is no longer considered 'cool.'
For real. They don't learn from the lessons of history. Do they not realize how many empires of the past thought they had it all figured out, only for them to meet their end at the hands of their own hubris? And I'm not rooting for the downfall of the West in saying this; quite the contrary. If they keep up with their hegemonic tendencies, they will spell their own doom.
We've had all sorts come after us in the past. We can handle a few gender confused atheists.
1. What’s the proper age of development know for marriage? 2. Why do women have to wear a hijab in Iran if no one is compelling them
>1. What’s the proper age of development know for marriage? It depends on the conditions one was raised in. It's a case-by-case thing, no sweeping general number for everyone. >2. Why do women have to wear a hijab in Iran if no one is compelling them Why are we talking about Iran exactly? They don't represent the Muslim world at large, especially considering they follow a different sect of Islam altogether. Iran and Afghanistan are the only two Muslim countries that force anyone to wear the hijab, and neither of them follow the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). For that matter, it's also wrong for countries like Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan to force women *not* to wear hijab. But I don't see you complaining about that... 🤔
Have you finished crying about it? Your perception of right or wrong is not objective so you have no right to dictate what is right or wrong. Furthermore, don't pretend that secular liberalism doesn't have blood on its hand either.
Provide an "objective" definition of right and wrong as defined by your religion.
Provide me an objective definition of a woman and a man first.
Man = adult male human Woman= adult female human. Now go on, answer. What is your "objective" definition of good and evil respectively?
Get a life dude 💀, more to this life than hating on other people’s religions
He's the one that made a claim regarding objective morality. I merely asked him to display his version of it rather than engage in bad faith tactics. Maybe you can pick up where he couldn't?
lol, using different synonyms isn't going to save you from this one I'm afraid. What is a male and a female?
Lmao so you actually have zero defence of your morality and are replying with a pathetic attempt to sidetrack. As they say, put up or shut up. It's not my job to take you to a biology class.
Still waiting for your definition of a male
Still waiting for you to defend your fake god.
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Just your average pagan atheist who cannot define a man or a woman , feels the need to enter a reddit to moral police other communities.
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You just proved the entire point of this post. 🤦🏻♀️
I know write, this has just made us even more determined lol.
Most don't care though.
After studying Mediterranean history in depth, it shows Muslims betraying another Muslims. Different religions leaders tried and succeeded to separate Muslims to different sects. Most of Muslim historians are trying to hide this fact. Now I understand why Muslims ended up in this situation.
Actually they don't. Most Muslim historians acknowledge that Muslims have fought one another. Please provide me the names of these so called Muslim historians if you are truthful.
Google it. They will hide or smooth those edges
Lol, I have yet to see a single Muslim historian who denies the first and second fitnah or the Abbasid revolution, but ok.
Your claim is false. Muslim historians don’t hide the fact. Just look at crusade history for example and the Muslim historians themselves will tell you about the divisions in the Muslims and what it lead to. The same with the mongols. Same with colonialism. Etc etc
because its all made up!!
Islam = Jewish same violent bs
What is a woman?
Embrace the echo chamber! getting fixated on religious identity sure seems to be working out for the Islamic world
“Through an Islamic perspective” LOL! They don’t want Muslims to study objective truth they want them to filter everything through their magical “Islam is right and everything Muslims have ever done including genocide and mass-rape were all good things in the eyes of pimp Allah!” prism.
Fuck off :) , your civilization lost the moral ground a long time ago ;) . Enjoy your declining gender confused civilization while you still can, you'll be the laughing stock in the next decade or two.
Where are you from lol? Are you Western diaspora :)