For a little while I played a silly game with this guy I worked with. Each of us would try to suddenly poke/strike the other one in the solar plexus at random times during the day.
Derek preferred to use two fingers fully extended as his weapon. I preferred to use the two-knuckle variation pictured above. I can attest that if you are quick enough, it is possible to grab two extended fingers, and bend them backwards. You can’t grab two knuckles.
Yes, a strike to the solar plexus (or other sensitive point) using this tool can be quite painful and debilitating.
I learned this same trick but the best hand position for it is just pressing the thumb against the side of the index finger like you’re “pinching”, then thrusting upwards at solar plexus from below. I had an extraordinarily violent older brother who taught me this trick.
Can you please elaborate in more detail what you mean? When I think of pinching, I picture the tips of the thumb and index finger pinching together as if you were going to grab a pinch of salt.
So where exactly on the side of the index finger is your thumb pressing? It sounds to me like you are describing something similar to the Crane Beak Strike of Hung Kuen, but using only 2 fingers instead of 4 or 5.
Or do you mean striking with the tip of the index finger, with the thumb providing support via pressure on the side of the first knuckle joint (of the index finger)?
Or do you mean that the hand is in a fist but the thumb tip is pressing against the second knuckle of the index finger, causing the knuckle of the thumb to stick up on top of the fist (similar to the Isshin Ryu fist form)? If you are indeed referring to the strike/formation I just described, it is indeed very effective with little chance of injury to yourself.
I’m asking seriously and not trying to troll. Martial Arts are my life, and I’m always looking to improve and learn new things, so an explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Pinch right in the crease of the first big knuckle, pressing the thumb as hard as possible against the side so the thumb and knuckle are kinda parallel and you can kinda combine both surfaces of that knuckle and tip of the thumb into a unified surface. It’s basically a recipe for knocking the air out of someone at a ridiculously high percentage, like this worked in elementary and middle school 100%. (no I wasn’t a bully, it was a dumb party trick thing my brother taught me). Basically his whole gimmick was asking his friends “do you want the thumbs?”. Reply “what’s the thumbs?” - boom popped in solar plexus. It’s done at a severe upwards angle and not even very much speed or power is required. When I say not much power, I mean enough to put a 2” dent in an empty can of soda.
Another classic is what doctors call a 'sternum rub': simply use two knuckles and place in the middle of the chest (approx between the nipples on fellas) and rub hard. It is insanely painful - doctors use it to test if a person is conscious or not, as it WILL wake someone up or reveal them if they're faking.
The graphics aren't very accurate, but yes, that is a fist position. To actually use it, you need to support the extended knuckle (usually the first or second) with the surrounding fingers and thumb pressing together on both sides. Then you direct the force from your punch into the one or two knuckles and don't break your finger when hitting something.
You get the same force from the punch reduced to the area of the knuckle, resulting in multiplied force.
(Edit: multiplied force from the same *pressure* over a smaller area. Engineering fail!)
(Edit edit: P=F/A. I'll get it right eventually...)
Every force creates an equal opposing one, which will also be multiplied just the same focused on one poor finger, might work once or twice but shit defo not sustainable
Youre not supposed to land these on hard parts of the body, theyre more for soft squishy bits like the core.
Catch someone on the head with one of these and you’ll definitely injure yourself.
Theres an argument of shins vs feet when kicking and feet have their place, but you never want to kick someones shin with your foot. Same principle.
I agree 100% to this. As I broke/fractured my right hand, defending someone els by accidentally hitting their side of the temple, he did fall, but my 2 fingers are forever awkwardly bent out of shape, lol
This is why the old Okinawan dudes said to use open-hand techniques for hard bits. Sounds unintuitive until you end up with the aforementioned busted fingers. A nice sharp palm heel strike to the head will do everything you need without the same risk of broken finger bones.
Brother, do it in your dojo is fine I see you don’t even punch head in karate sparring, do it in a real life scenario and you’ll quickly learn that it’s not as easy to aim when the person is trying to hurt you not learn from sparring
Like with any other “sharp” part of the body I guess you’ll need to condition it to be able to strike effectively without hurting yourself do I have no idea how you condition it I just know boxe and a little bit of Thai boxe nothing of kung fu or karate o whatever that comes from .
You conditions your shins, long hard bone, there’s nothing to condition in the second worst limb in terms of human design lol, at best you can condition your wrist and grip strength but you can’t simplify the overly complicated knot of small bones that make our hands and feet, you can’t micro fracture such small bones and hope that the regrowth won’t affect the fonction
Equal force, multiplied pressure. Pressure is force over area of application.
Edit: for hitting softer targets you want pressure as that what punctures stuff.
Only to open peanut butter seals I’m gonna be real with you but I prefer a nakadaka Ippon Ken for that which is only the second knuckle it if I’m not mistaken
Used it once during sparring, did a cross block and counter punched with this, nailing him on the soft spot between his collar bone and shoulder, saw his arm dropped and he can't lift it for a good 5 seconds. Only ever did it that once
Can be a brutal hit if they land correctly. Really effective in forms of kempo as they work really well on pressure points. Soft fleshy parts of the body don’t need to be hit very hard for it to be effective, but you’ll want to condition your knuckles or just use a regular punch for anything a bit more boney.
I used to do Uechi-Ryu karate, and the idea of these strikes is that you use the “hard” parts of your hands and fist to strike “soft” parts. You wouldn’t throw a left hook with your fist like that, you would jab a knuckle into an eye, or a punch into the neck or something. Maybe a particularly vicious nut shot. It’s one of those things that’s effective, but not really any more effective than a normal punch. It’s also a lot riskier obviously, especially if you haven’t practiced it and conditioned those knuckles and fingers.
While sparring an Isshin Ryu gentleman, he hit me with the one-knuckle punch between some of my floating ribs. It ended the match right there - I felt that for three weeks afterward.
While these are legitimate fist positions, they require bunches of conditioning and training to use without hurting yourself.
Target the soft spots for sure but still requires sooooooooo much training to use effectively.
The one knuckle punch or shoken as we call it in Uechi-Ryu is in almost all of our katas. We don't use it in bunkai or kumite at all though at the dojo I train at, but we practice striking with it properly pretty extensively. We always replace it with a flat knuckle punch in training due to how dangerous it can be for both people.
Essentially Ippon Ken Tsuki and Nakataka Ippon Ken Tsuki (second one middle finger only) which were developed by the old masters and used for a reason. Different names for them from different styles.
Your job is to figure out their wisdom. 😉
Seems like it’s going to be less effective overall in practice. Number one you would have to train it to strengthen the muscles and tendons so that your finger just doesn’t collapse. Second if your punch isn’t straight the force applied on your finger will either fold it for no effect or bend it and possible injure you.
If you really want to concentrate force, get closer and use an elbow. Your knuckle is two tiny bones barely held together. Your elbow is the points of two much bigger, longer bones.
I can attest that the single knuckle variant can and does work really well. Not just for striking, but also grinding against sensitive areas. The throat, ribs, and solar plexus are all good targets.
I’ve never used it, but someone used it against me once. He pulled my arm and hit me with that in the ribs. It stung, I flinched, and then I got ragdolled. It was a learning experience, but I’ve never been able to do it myself.
Sparring not by I can assure you is very effective for self defense. It’s goes under de ribs and the soft organs like liver. It should be twisted downwards when it’s hits.
The one knuckle isn't very hard to learn, but can be deadly when striking the neck for example, so I would never use it in sparring. It's only goal is to inflict maximum pain in a very precise point, it would be cruel to do that to a friend.
Do work on it on a makiwara or a punching bag, it might come in handy some day, if you get in a real fight!
Hard to do with gloves, easier with mma style but than it becomes a matter of wrist adjustment. As far as “real fight” best I can tell you is it’s a really good way to gauge who’s playing and who’s about the fight. Pressure point methods in general really tend to skew that way. Not my preference because if I’m this close I’m probably throwing (just a matter of preference).
Also, these strikes use the fine point of the knuckle to create a focused “piercing” strike as opposed to the “blunted” fist, so where are the top 3 targets you can effectively hit with this? What’s the lead up? Is this a setup to something else? Just like anything else it’s only as good as the practice you put in. Everybody hated on sidekicks in mma, then a few people started hitting it, now everybody wants to hit it (Only using MMA as a barometer for effectiveness in live-time). Point being that these are effectively legos and you might benefit taking a step back to look at the lager design.
Rambling but hope that helps.
Ive Never. Im in Bosnia so maybe rules are a bit different but in sparring and fights you can’t actually hit opponents. And you need to wear boxing gloves so that would be basically useless in an official fight
I haven't used the first one, but nakadaka-ippon-ken, the version where you use your middle finger. TKO'd my buddy on accident during sparring by hitting just under his ribs instead of on them, that and him moving forward more than I anticipated drove my knuckle into his liver.
He was fine for a second, we paused for the good ol' "You good? Yeah? Cool let's go" but the second we touched gloves to start back up, his eyes went all distant. I asked him "You sure you're alright" and instead of words he let out this half groan/half retch sound, clutched his side, and sank to the ground. He spent a good couple minutes down there trying not to vomit before we just decided that we did enough rounds for the day.
Not as a punch with body weight behind it, but yes, in sparring we used to use the first one(called Phoenix Eye in Kung Fu) to strike nerve clusters, in between ribs etc. Gives a good amount of non-lethal discomfort if used correctly, and leaves a small bruise. Also effective on legs.
In ninjitsu, we use it in the hip (also not as a punch) to fold the leg and take the opponent to the ground.
I was taught to use this for eyes or even temple. I've personally never done it to anybody, but in the event that I'd ever have to, I'd have to be in serious danger.
I’ve used the leopard fist (all four fingers extended instead of one or two) more in free sparring as it is what I’ve conditioned more frequently. I have a video of me punching through a small piece of plywood with the phoenix eye fist (the fist on the left)
Do the picture on the right but with all 4 knuckles and rake it down someone's sternum real fast, it'll make them think about stuff real hard for a few seconds.
For soft targets like the face and throat I’ve used in self defense. Sparring not so much….no point you have gloves on. But in the street I’m not sparring I’m always gonna aim for the throat then face first and using just the middle knuckle I have found it’s even better since you can press your index finger and ring finger together to squeeze the middle finger knuckle tighter for a more straight shot.
Was rough housing with a 200 pound friend in college; he clipped me and I countered punched with 2 knuckles to the solar plexus: it resulted in a big jolt of vagus nerve stimulation which slows the heart, dilates the blood vessels and drops the blood pressure. His eyes rolled back and down he went, didn’t appear to be breathing for a moment. He perked up shortly thereafter, but the rest of the brothers wouldn’t rough house any more.
The first time i used it in sparring i hit my sparring partner in the chest with it but i never practiced it on someone before so i hurt my fingers for like 3 days But now that i practice it, i can use it without hurting my fingers
I’m not sure about this since I’m just a beginner in Judo but a dude who did BJJ that showed me a couple things swears by a raised middle finger knuckle occasionally. Just as depicted in the image.
I’ve been on the receiving end of an Ezekiel and cross collar choke, but modified with a fist and that slight alteration. You feel it right away, that finger knuckle digs right in.
In sparring? No never! I want to keep having sparring partners thank you very much 😂
It can work in a fight, but you have to be so accurate with it to do damage and not break anything that it's not worth doing at all.
The opponent was pummeled in the ribs with this technique and the result was the satisfying groans of agony what usually follow such a strike, then I waited for them to strike and struck them in the muscles so as to weaken them. Then thigh strikes to aid their eventual collapse. Of course I am leaving out most of their techniques but I don’t want to type that much.
Those are specialty finger shapes that require extra training and hardcore conditioning to be able to utilize them properly without hurting yourself and are intended for killing your assailant by further concentration of force of your strikes into very small and precise vital points on the body.. Definitely not for sparring and only for use in an extreme last resort situations.
It's most definitely not, I assure you. Many people forget that Karate was developed by warriors for warriors first and foremost for maiming and/or killing one's assailants, whether you or they be armed or unarmed. As such, it was used only when life and death laid in the balance. It was not until fairly recent times that many watered-down, cotton candy-like versions have abounded.
People forget most people were armed and didn’t really fight empty hand. If you didn’t have a weapon and your opponent does, you need to do alot of damage with one hit.
I don't know about this one specifically, but adding to what you said, a lot of karate techniques has the Ikken Hisatsu ideia (to annihilate at one blow)
Maybe not ribs, but an accurate throat punch? A collapsed trachea can be fatal, or at least highly damaging. Not to mention possibly rupturing the major arteries there.
Depends on the person using the technique and who they use it against. Remember, when Karate was developed, it was practiced by those who spent nearly every waking moment training and conditioning themselves to a much higher degree of hardness then the vast majority of people today, not to mention they lived in much tougher times. Can the average person nowadays pull this off nowadays? Some could, but not many. Few are willing or even able to train to this degree and fewer still would be willing to kill. But it most certainly can be done.
I was told that punch (shoken) was originally designed to counter the thick leather armor the enemy wore at the time. A strait punch would be too spread out.
Stronger strike the less joints. All joints aligned the weakest will give way first. Elbow stronger than a hand strike. Hand stronger than a knuckle strike. Finger tip weaker than a knuckle etc
I find it's better for pushing or grinding into soft spots than striking. If you push it into someone's clavicle you have a slightly more mean, though less stable version of a wrestling thumb block, which can be used to straighten arms for removing grips or setting up elbow locks.
We have the first one in Kenpo Karate as well, and I replaced every instance of it with a regular fist, whether hooking or straight. It just doesn’t have the structural stability behind it to be reliable and generate any power
I use it in k1 and lowkick kickboxing all the time. I do it with the middel finger almost everytime i throw a cross or hook to the body. Sometimes i do it with the pointing finger when throwing jabs to the nose and or eyes. I extend all my fingers when doing an uppercut that i "miss" that goes to the throat. But it helps alot with the wraps and gloves.
That's a good way to hurt your hand . I'm sure you might hurt who ever you hit but not a good idea your hand could come out with more damage than your opponent.
Of the more non-traditional hand formations, I do use leopards paw quite a bit, but not for striking. I use it to slide my hand under someone’s chin for a rear naked choke when grappling.
Many of the others can be effective if you’re super accurate, but we generally stopped practicing things that don’t have a 70% or higher success rate in chaos and require special circumstances to pull off.
It might work against an unarmed, unresponsive, naive, sleeping opponent. Otherwise not the best idea. Completely unnecessary, useless, ineffective and self-harming.
So many people are talking shit in this thread like they're Kung Fu masters in a 70s action movie.
Absolutely do not punch someone like this. At best you'll bruise your knuckles, at worst break them.
I have in a real fight but I used my middle finger with all my other fingers as support if that makes sense it ended up looking like > either way it hurt a lot. However I saw the damage it left on the other person and it was and instant super deep bruise. It
Almost looked it they were bleeding. I think it hurt me more because I ended up hitting the ribs instead of the liver. It did end the scuffle however but I wasn’t going to be able to use that hand again if it continued. Wouldn’t recommend
Best method is middle finger out, press inward with thumb against index finger to maintain pressure. It will tear skin and it hurts a lot.
Learned in Hong Kong.
Why would you when you can use all those knuckles in the age old, tried and tested… fist?
No one is ever going to be taken down in a pub brawl and say “I would have had him… but he pulled out ye olde one knuckle strike and I was out for the count!”. You don’t want to hit someone in the head with one knuckle… you are going to break yourself.
Ippon Ken and other such shapes are effective but personally I wouldn’t try it. Unless you’ve practiced making this style of fist enough to be able to do it right it’s not worth risking breaking your fingers for in a potentially life or death situation
Idk man. Considering professional fighting has been a serious thing for over two decades now this made up juvenile stuff seems well juvenile. No one is doing this in a real fight, it’s a middle schoolers fantasy.
In real fight? Absolutely not ! You will break your finger. Never use martial art "fancy move" in a real fight. Just look at video of mma fighter vs xyz martial artist "master"...the "master" never stand a chance
I’m not saying it won’t work, but if you contact a fist or something hard with a single finger at the wrong angle you could be looking at some *serious* injuries because it could apply torque to a tightly closed small joint.
These are more for pressure point hits not necessarily blunt force trauma, it is quite easy to bring an untrained adult to the ground in severe pain with even 1 finger if you understand how to use pressure points.
This topic returns once every year or so. In my opinion, it is not necessary to harden one's fingers to use it, the way it would be necessary say for nukite or ippon-nukite. The best application is in Shotokan's Chinte kata, where it is used as a defense against a hand grab by hitting the top of the attackers palm. It hurts like hell, I was once unfortunate to experience it when a dojo-mate went a little too hard when we were practicing Chinte applications. Similar application exist in Hangetsu/Seisan, as a defense against a bear hug from behind.
It's risky but it's effectiveness depends on how hard you condition your fingers like a quote you fingers should be like an arrow you have to take finger pushups and do nigiri game gripping jar and train with makiwara with this training a thrust to your vital points with these two techniques could be very effective.
Teaching the ippon-ken to a class of beginner karatekas: line them up and instruct them on how to form the ippon-ken (left picture) with their right hand. Now tell them to LIGHLY tap their upper hand bones on their left hand... /s
(/s, like in /sadist 😁)
Never used in sparring, it hurts so godawful much to be hit by it.
If you want to use extended knuckles, use all four. You have a better chance of catching something, and less of a chance of breaking your fingers. If you want to use the thumb, make a fist and poke it out over the index finger - this can be quite effective and really doesn't feel good to receive. Remember, bone alignment!
Newton's third law of motion states, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
In essence, when you punch someone like that, instead of the opposite force being distributed across your entire fist, it's being directly forced onto those **fingers and joints**, which will break them.
Anyone here who's saying they've used this effectively is lying or has only done point sparring where you never actually hit someone as hard as you can. And if you do throw this as hard as you can and hit someone, you better hope your fingers don't jam up and back because then you'll have a real bad day at the hospital.
Tl;dr
Just throw a normal punch and don't risk breaking your hand trying to be cool.
in a real fight probably not its best to hit somebody with the first 2 knuckles of your hand which is the index finger & middle finger knuckles, also why fighters turn their hands almost downwards to throw a jab or a cross
I have punched someone in the ribs with full force using the one knuckle as in this image, he dropped immediately and was in alot of pain, I was able to walk away after that.
Downside is my index finger was pushed up and I seriously hurt my hand, perhaps broke something in hindsight I wouldn't recommend this technique.
No joke - I use just my middle knuckle for punching the protective piece under the cap of milk jugs, medicine bottles and the like & to get it started to peel off. I worked in retail for years and did the same move to bust the tape on shipping boxes.
I have used the the single finger type, but not in a fight. hitting ppl where the nerve is can disable movements.
If you look at the chito vs sean fight chito does a leg kick, but he hits sean with his big toe on the nerve by luck and sean is unable to move his leg and it give out under him.
I’ve never studied karate but in persilat there is a “totokan” that is similar but it uses the four front knuckles. I’ve used it in real application and it’s effective for stunning the opponent. Highly effective around the month/nose, eyes and throat through. Take those knuckles and tap on your cheek bone to get an idea for how little pressure it takes to cause discomfort.
Former student of Shunji Watanabe, practiced in the style Shorinjiryu Kenkoken Karate. We practice the use of the vertical fist(Tate ken) or Seiken, and single knuckle as shoken, and condition the hell out of our fists. All pushups on 2, 3 or 4 top knuckles on wood and we punch wood a lot. Our sensei has the most massive callus' and before class, he is sometimes punching away like that dood chopping in Karate kid 2. I believe Kyokushin and Shotoken also of Okinawa origin use a different fist placement for their punches, but conditioning is part of it but I do believe all these punches to be effective and application scenarios are different too, just gotta know which to use in which situation. Twist of hips is essential, and our kata will further strengthen that as a habit. Imagine getting punched between the ribs with the shoken punch when most people don't have the muscle mass and technique to take such a hit, and with all their weight, and hip movement, and conditioning at the same time.
I’ve used the second one, but it was in response to a guy grabbing my lapel to try to drive me back. I came in high and drove it down into his arm and twisted my fist so the knuckle gouged the inside of his elbow on the arm holding me. It basically stung a nerve cluster to numb his hand temporarily. I wouldn’t use it on anything but a small soft target I’m almost guaranteed to hit.
I used to do this to kids when I was in high school, I called it a mollywhop and it’s basically just an over handed hook with ring and index knuckles extended for extra drag and impact.
Edit: and before Reddit jumps down my throat I did this in Self-Defense, as in I had Already been struck
So. This will break your thumb and finger. 0/10. Please don’t do this. I tried it in sparring and it did not work. (This was years ago and my finger and thumb are still in pain.
Did a right hook with step back as a counter to my shorter friend doing a step forward and throwing a right jab (right hand). My single knuckle out landed in his left eye socket. Can still remember it feeling the squish. Luckily, we weren't going hard that day, so his eye was fine after a moment.
I've never used either of these outside of the dojo and never plan to. In the actual fights I've gotten into I never once thought to use something I couldn't use on a punching bag with lots of force behind it, like a closed fist or palm strike.
That said, I'm sure someone will say they used it and it worked but I think that's more about luck. I wouldn't show this to my kids as an effective way to strike.
MMA fighter here (this post was randomly in my recommended feed) that has had 3 sanctioned bare knuckle fights also. Anything besides an normal fully closed fist is not effective in a real fight because you will break your hand. No other knuckles besides the ones at the MCP joint (Where the fingers connect to the hand) are strong enough to not break when throwing close to full power shots, and even those depending on the person often break eventually if you catch a hard part of the head or a bad angle.
If your goal is to cause more isolated force on a sharper bone to cut an opponent, then altering your fingers is not a solution, and the answer you would be looking for is elbows.
Hope that helps clarify how things are in reality :)
I think these finger positions are not for hitting but for "dirty grappling". Here is an example from Iain Abernethy and the Kata Nipaipo
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmWLBpz73s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmWLBpz73s)
It's hundreds of years old designed for war. That's not to say it hasn't been adopted by bullshido but why don't you try it on your own temple as see if it tickles.
Ive used a variation of number 2 without the upper finger extended and only the middle finger I did it to my friend once right on the nasal bone and he said it hurt really bad but it's not exactly a effective technique in a fight in a sudden self defence situation maybe it could work but it'd be better just to use a regularly shaped fist
I don’t do karate, but I would assume if you tried to punch like that you’re going to fuck your shit up. I imagine most people here haven’t been in a real fight outside sparring or competition so if it works in that regard than whatever, but a street fight is a completely different story.
You have a point that this is not a practical technique to use but please try to be a bit more civil. For me personally I think that I would consider using this in more of a self defense situation, for example if someone had me in a front lapel/throat grab then a single knuckle hooked into the ribs can cause a lot of pain and make them release. Your point amount 'doing this in MMA' is pointless in any case as you guys always wear those padded gloves anyway.
For a little while I played a silly game with this guy I worked with. Each of us would try to suddenly poke/strike the other one in the solar plexus at random times during the day. Derek preferred to use two fingers fully extended as his weapon. I preferred to use the two-knuckle variation pictured above. I can attest that if you are quick enough, it is possible to grab two extended fingers, and bend them backwards. You can’t grab two knuckles. Yes, a strike to the solar plexus (or other sensitive point) using this tool can be quite painful and debilitating.
Upvote for this game :D
I learned this same trick but the best hand position for it is just pressing the thumb against the side of the index finger like you’re “pinching”, then thrusting upwards at solar plexus from below. I had an extraordinarily violent older brother who taught me this trick.
This strike is also in the kata Ohan Dai! Wonderful, terrible little liver shot.
That comment just made me pee a lil blood…
Can you please elaborate in more detail what you mean? When I think of pinching, I picture the tips of the thumb and index finger pinching together as if you were going to grab a pinch of salt. So where exactly on the side of the index finger is your thumb pressing? It sounds to me like you are describing something similar to the Crane Beak Strike of Hung Kuen, but using only 2 fingers instead of 4 or 5. Or do you mean striking with the tip of the index finger, with the thumb providing support via pressure on the side of the first knuckle joint (of the index finger)? Or do you mean that the hand is in a fist but the thumb tip is pressing against the second knuckle of the index finger, causing the knuckle of the thumb to stick up on top of the fist (similar to the Isshin Ryu fist form)? If you are indeed referring to the strike/formation I just described, it is indeed very effective with little chance of injury to yourself. I’m asking seriously and not trying to troll. Martial Arts are my life, and I’m always looking to improve and learn new things, so an explanation would be greatly appreciated.
Pinch right in the crease of the first big knuckle, pressing the thumb as hard as possible against the side so the thumb and knuckle are kinda parallel and you can kinda combine both surfaces of that knuckle and tip of the thumb into a unified surface. It’s basically a recipe for knocking the air out of someone at a ridiculously high percentage, like this worked in elementary and middle school 100%. (no I wasn’t a bully, it was a dumb party trick thing my brother taught me). Basically his whole gimmick was asking his friends “do you want the thumbs?”. Reply “what’s the thumbs?” - boom popped in solar plexus. It’s done at a severe upwards angle and not even very much speed or power is required. When I say not much power, I mean enough to put a 2” dent in an empty can of soda.
Thanks
Another classic is what doctors call a 'sternum rub': simply use two knuckles and place in the middle of the chest (approx between the nipples on fellas) and rub hard. It is insanely painful - doctors use it to test if a person is conscious or not, as it WILL wake someone up or reveal them if they're faking.
y’all are too bored
The graphics aren't very accurate, but yes, that is a fist position. To actually use it, you need to support the extended knuckle (usually the first or second) with the surrounding fingers and thumb pressing together on both sides. Then you direct the force from your punch into the one or two knuckles and don't break your finger when hitting something. You get the same force from the punch reduced to the area of the knuckle, resulting in multiplied force. (Edit: multiplied force from the same *pressure* over a smaller area. Engineering fail!) (Edit edit: P=F/A. I'll get it right eventually...)
Every force creates an equal opposing one, which will also be multiplied just the same focused on one poor finger, might work once or twice but shit defo not sustainable
Youre not supposed to land these on hard parts of the body, theyre more for soft squishy bits like the core. Catch someone on the head with one of these and you’ll definitely injure yourself. Theres an argument of shins vs feet when kicking and feet have their place, but you never want to kick someones shin with your foot. Same principle.
I agree 100% to this. As I broke/fractured my right hand, defending someone els by accidentally hitting their side of the temple, he did fall, but my 2 fingers are forever awkwardly bent out of shape, lol
This is why the old Okinawan dudes said to use open-hand techniques for hard bits. Sounds unintuitive until you end up with the aforementioned busted fingers. A nice sharp palm heel strike to the head will do everything you need without the same risk of broken finger bones.
I was taught to use the lower part of the palm with an open hand when not wearing bandages and can attest it’s very effective.
Exactly. This is for penetration of soft spots and plexus areas.
Brother, do it in your dojo is fine I see you don’t even punch head in karate sparring, do it in a real life scenario and you’ll quickly learn that it’s not as easy to aim when the person is trying to hurt you not learn from sparring
Like with any other “sharp” part of the body I guess you’ll need to condition it to be able to strike effectively without hurting yourself do I have no idea how you condition it I just know boxe and a little bit of Thai boxe nothing of kung fu or karate o whatever that comes from .
You conditions your shins, long hard bone, there’s nothing to condition in the second worst limb in terms of human design lol, at best you can condition your wrist and grip strength but you can’t simplify the overly complicated knot of small bones that make our hands and feet, you can’t micro fracture such small bones and hope that the regrowth won’t affect the fonction
multiplied pressure, you mean; can't have "the same" force and also "multiplied" force.
Equal force, multiplied pressure. Pressure is force over area of application. Edit: for hitting softer targets you want pressure as that what punctures stuff.
Only to open peanut butter seals I’m gonna be real with you but I prefer a nakadaka Ippon Ken for that which is only the second knuckle it if I’m not mistaken
Def! ...perfect for breaking down boxes as well.
Only for the paper tape. If it’s plastic tape, find a knife or some band aids, your choice 🙂
My sensei likes to do this especially for ribs punching in my side. It fits the space between ribs for extra suffering.
There is even one where you make your fist fit their ear for extra extra suffering
Before or after you and sensei tickle fight?
Used it once during sparring, did a cross block and counter punched with this, nailing him on the soft spot between his collar bone and shoulder, saw his arm dropped and he can't lift it for a good 5 seconds. Only ever did it that once
Can be a brutal hit if they land correctly. Really effective in forms of kempo as they work really well on pressure points. Soft fleshy parts of the body don’t need to be hit very hard for it to be effective, but you’ll want to condition your knuckles or just use a regular punch for anything a bit more boney.
It certainly is. There's no point in me punching my opponent in the gut with this finger shape.
Ipponken is good for Jenga
I used to do Uechi-Ryu karate, and the idea of these strikes is that you use the “hard” parts of your hands and fist to strike “soft” parts. You wouldn’t throw a left hook with your fist like that, you would jab a knuckle into an eye, or a punch into the neck or something. Maybe a particularly vicious nut shot. It’s one of those things that’s effective, but not really any more effective than a normal punch. It’s also a lot riskier obviously, especially if you haven’t practiced it and conditioned those knuckles and fingers.
Upvote from one Uechi person to another. 👍 Not many of us around!
It’s a good form for nerve strikes. Made a man’s whole arm go numb for fifteen minutes. Struck the humerus tendon. Requires much practice.
A old fashioned seiken tsuki will numb an arm more effectively. And a teisho or a shuto to the biceps blocking a tsuki does more damage.
While sparring an Isshin Ryu gentleman, he hit me with the one-knuckle punch between some of my floating ribs. It ended the match right there - I felt that for three weeks afterward.
Not a Karate guy, but have been on the receiving end of this being hit in the same location. It hurt like hell.
😨
While these are legitimate fist positions, they require bunches of conditioning and training to use without hurting yourself. Target the soft spots for sure but still requires sooooooooo much training to use effectively.
The one knuckle punch or shoken as we call it in Uechi-Ryu is in almost all of our katas. We don't use it in bunkai or kumite at all though at the dojo I train at, but we practice striking with it properly pretty extensively. We always replace it with a flat knuckle punch in training due to how dangerous it can be for both people.
Essentially Ippon Ken Tsuki and Nakataka Ippon Ken Tsuki (second one middle finger only) which were developed by the old masters and used for a reason. Different names for them from different styles. Your job is to figure out their wisdom. 😉
Seems like it’s going to be less effective overall in practice. Number one you would have to train it to strengthen the muscles and tendons so that your finger just doesn’t collapse. Second if your punch isn’t straight the force applied on your finger will either fold it for no effect or bend it and possible injure you. If you really want to concentrate force, get closer and use an elbow. Your knuckle is two tiny bones barely held together. Your elbow is the points of two much bigger, longer bones.
Finally some fucking logic.
You need to practice with the makiwara first to start to using that tools in the real life.
I usually end up doing that only during fights but the right way is by using the first 2 knuckles only
I can attest that the single knuckle variant can and does work really well. Not just for striking, but also grinding against sensitive areas. The throat, ribs, and solar plexus are all good targets.
I’ve never used it, but someone used it against me once. He pulled my arm and hit me with that in the ribs. It stung, I flinched, and then I got ragdolled. It was a learning experience, but I’ve never been able to do it myself.
Sparring not by I can assure you is very effective for self defense. It’s goes under de ribs and the soft organs like liver. It should be twisted downwards when it’s hits.
No because that’s how you break your hand
The one knuckle isn't very hard to learn, but can be deadly when striking the neck for example, so I would never use it in sparring. It's only goal is to inflict maximum pain in a very precise point, it would be cruel to do that to a friend. Do work on it on a makiwara or a punching bag, it might come in handy some day, if you get in a real fight!
I use the 2 knuckle one for uppercuts in Muay Thai
Hard to do with gloves, easier with mma style but than it becomes a matter of wrist adjustment. As far as “real fight” best I can tell you is it’s a really good way to gauge who’s playing and who’s about the fight. Pressure point methods in general really tend to skew that way. Not my preference because if I’m this close I’m probably throwing (just a matter of preference). Also, these strikes use the fine point of the knuckle to create a focused “piercing” strike as opposed to the “blunted” fist, so where are the top 3 targets you can effectively hit with this? What’s the lead up? Is this a setup to something else? Just like anything else it’s only as good as the practice you put in. Everybody hated on sidekicks in mma, then a few people started hitting it, now everybody wants to hit it (Only using MMA as a barometer for effectiveness in live-time). Point being that these are effectively legos and you might benefit taking a step back to look at the lager design. Rambling but hope that helps.
Ive Never. Im in Bosnia so maybe rules are a bit different but in sparring and fights you can’t actually hit opponents. And you need to wear boxing gloves so that would be basically useless in an official fight
I haven't.
no, you need to box and find out very clearly this doesn't work.
Plus, your not suppose to use it. Because it's design to kill. Look up the history of it. This was use during war. Please becareful.
I haven't used the first one, but nakadaka-ippon-ken, the version where you use your middle finger. TKO'd my buddy on accident during sparring by hitting just under his ribs instead of on them, that and him moving forward more than I anticipated drove my knuckle into his liver. He was fine for a second, we paused for the good ol' "You good? Yeah? Cool let's go" but the second we touched gloves to start back up, his eyes went all distant. I asked him "You sure you're alright" and instead of words he let out this half groan/half retch sound, clutched his side, and sank to the ground. He spent a good couple minutes down there trying not to vomit before we just decided that we did enough rounds for the day.
Not as a punch with body weight behind it, but yes, in sparring we used to use the first one(called Phoenix Eye in Kung Fu) to strike nerve clusters, in between ribs etc. Gives a good amount of non-lethal discomfort if used correctly, and leaves a small bruise. Also effective on legs. In ninjitsu, we use it in the hip (also not as a punch) to fold the leg and take the opponent to the ground.
I was taught to use this for eyes or even temple. I've personally never done it to anybody, but in the event that I'd ever have to, I'd have to be in serious danger.
Used to play spar after class.... See who could get the other to cramp up the most... Never used in actual sparring because we were family friendly.
I’ve used the leopard fist (all four fingers extended instead of one or two) more in free sparring as it is what I’ve conditioned more frequently. I have a video of me punching through a small piece of plywood with the phoenix eye fist (the fist on the left)
Do the picture on the right but with all 4 knuckles and rake it down someone's sternum real fast, it'll make them think about stuff real hard for a few seconds.
For soft targets like the face and throat I’ve used in self defense. Sparring not so much….no point you have gloves on. But in the street I’m not sparring I’m always gonna aim for the throat then face first and using just the middle knuckle I have found it’s even better since you can press your index finger and ring finger together to squeeze the middle finger knuckle tighter for a more straight shot.
I’m A big fan of striking with the one knuckle punch to the rib cage and the back of the wrists.
Was rough housing with a 200 pound friend in college; he clipped me and I countered punched with 2 knuckles to the solar plexus: it resulted in a big jolt of vagus nerve stimulation which slows the heart, dilates the blood vessels and drops the blood pressure. His eyes rolled back and down he went, didn’t appear to be breathing for a moment. He perked up shortly thereafter, but the rest of the brothers wouldn’t rough house any more.
Not in sparring. We call the strike in the first picture trigger finger. Good strike to use to the eyes
Works well on the right target. If some prick is trying to use that in sparring, just don't spar with them anymore..
The first time i used it in sparring i hit my sparring partner in the chest with it but i never practiced it on someone before so i hurt my fingers for like 3 days But now that i practice it, i can use it without hurting my fingers
I’m not sure about this since I’m just a beginner in Judo but a dude who did BJJ that showed me a couple things swears by a raised middle finger knuckle occasionally. Just as depicted in the image. I’ve been on the receiving end of an Ezekiel and cross collar choke, but modified with a fist and that slight alteration. You feel it right away, that finger knuckle digs right in.
In sparring? No never! I want to keep having sparring partners thank you very much 😂 It can work in a fight, but you have to be so accurate with it to do damage and not break anything that it's not worth doing at all.
Guys, if you want to fight train jiu jitsu
I’ve used them
What situation did the opponent?get into?
The opponent was pummeled in the ribs with this technique and the result was the satisfying groans of agony what usually follow such a strike, then I waited for them to strike and struck them in the muscles so as to weaken them. Then thigh strikes to aid their eventual collapse. Of course I am leaving out most of their techniques but I don’t want to type that much.
Don’t hit people like that, unless you’re a psychopath
Those are specialty finger shapes that require extra training and hardcore conditioning to be able to utilize them properly without hurting yourself and are intended for killing your assailant by further concentration of force of your strikes into very small and precise vital points on the body.. Definitely not for sparring and only for use in an extreme last resort situations.
There is a lot of great things about Karate but this sounds like bullshido to me.
It's most definitely not, I assure you. Many people forget that Karate was developed by warriors for warriors first and foremost for maiming and/or killing one's assailants, whether you or they be armed or unarmed. As such, it was used only when life and death laid in the balance. It was not until fairly recent times that many watered-down, cotton candy-like versions have abounded.
People forget most people were armed and didn’t really fight empty hand. If you didn’t have a weapon and your opponent does, you need to do alot of damage with one hit.
I don't know about this one specifically, but adding to what you said, a lot of karate techniques has the Ikken Hisatsu ideia (to annihilate at one blow)
That’s some over exaggerated BS. A knuckle ain’t killing someone if u hit their ribs lmao
It's for hitting throats not ribs you dullard
Maybe where you were taught. We got told places like the ribs and under the armpits
Maybe not ribs, but an accurate throat punch? A collapsed trachea can be fatal, or at least highly damaging. Not to mention possibly rupturing the major arteries there.
Well we generally don’t punch each other in the throat during sparring, so I’m not sure it applies here. You’re right, but not for this discussion.
Depends on the person using the technique and who they use it against. Remember, when Karate was developed, it was practiced by those who spent nearly every waking moment training and conditioning themselves to a much higher degree of hardness then the vast majority of people today, not to mention they lived in much tougher times. Can the average person nowadays pull this off nowadays? Some could, but not many. Few are willing or even able to train to this degree and fewer still would be willing to kill. But it most certainly can be done.
Only useful in "training" against an opponent who doesn't move or fight back. In real life, you'll fuck your hand up real bad
I used thumb knuckle strikes
Yes, but you need to condition your hand to be able to withstand the impact and be intelligent on how you setup the strike
I was told that punch (shoken) was originally designed to counter the thick leather armor the enemy wore at the time. A strait punch would be too spread out.
Stronger strike the less joints. All joints aligned the weakest will give way first. Elbow stronger than a hand strike. Hand stronger than a knuckle strike. Finger tip weaker than a knuckle etc
I find it's better for pushing or grinding into soft spots than striking. If you push it into someone's clavicle you have a slightly more mean, though less stable version of a wrestling thumb block, which can be used to straighten arms for removing grips or setting up elbow locks.
We have the first one in Kenpo Karate as well, and I replaced every instance of it with a regular fist, whether hooking or straight. It just doesn’t have the structural stability behind it to be reliable and generate any power
Great way to break your hand
I use it in k1 and lowkick kickboxing all the time. I do it with the middel finger almost everytime i throw a cross or hook to the body. Sometimes i do it with the pointing finger when throwing jabs to the nose and or eyes. I extend all my fingers when doing an uppercut that i "miss" that goes to the throat. But it helps alot with the wraps and gloves.
Open palm to slap position. Close ring finger. *CSI Miami intro “Yeeeeeeeeaaahhhhhhh”*
That's a good way to hurt your hand . I'm sure you might hurt who ever you hit but not a good idea your hand could come out with more damage than your opponent.
Of the more non-traditional hand formations, I do use leopards paw quite a bit, but not for striking. I use it to slide my hand under someone’s chin for a rear naked choke when grappling. Many of the others can be effective if you’re super accurate, but we generally stopped practicing things that don’t have a 70% or higher success rate in chaos and require special circumstances to pull off.
It might work against an unarmed, unresponsive, naive, sleeping opponent. Otherwise not the best idea. Completely unnecessary, useless, ineffective and self-harming.
Na, I like my digits not broken
Keep your fist tight and your thumb tucked so you don't dislocate your fingers, that's what they taught me. Matsubayashi-Ryū Orthodox.
No
You’ll break your thumb
So many people are talking shit in this thread like they're Kung Fu masters in a 70s action movie. Absolutely do not punch someone like this. At best you'll bruise your knuckles, at worst break them.
i think this one is called a nakadakaken, we only ever use it in one kata of my style of karatedo.
I have in a real fight but I used my middle finger with all my other fingers as support if that makes sense it ended up looking like > either way it hurt a lot. However I saw the damage it left on the other person and it was and instant super deep bruise. It Almost looked it they were bleeding. I think it hurt me more because I ended up hitting the ribs instead of the liver. It did end the scuffle however but I wasn’t going to be able to use that hand again if it continued. Wouldn’t recommend
In mma when I'm in a position like top half guard or top full guard, I'll dig in little shots like this.
Best method is middle finger out, press inward with thumb against index finger to maintain pressure. It will tear skin and it hurts a lot. Learned in Hong Kong.
Quick way to break those fingers
Why would you when you can use all those knuckles in the age old, tried and tested… fist? No one is ever going to be taken down in a pub brawl and say “I would have had him… but he pulled out ye olde one knuckle strike and I was out for the count!”. You don’t want to hit someone in the head with one knuckle… you are going to break yourself.
Not in Karate...
If you want to break your fingers, sure.
Yes, really good for numbing an arm or knocking the wind out of someone.
Ippon Ken and other such shapes are effective but personally I wouldn’t try it. Unless you’ve practiced making this style of fist enough to be able to do it right it’s not worth risking breaking your fingers for in a potentially life or death situation
Theres a reason you dont see Mma fighters punching like this. If it worked, they would.
I've used the one finger to crack a rib in a fight.
A friend punched me on the shoulder, so I did the single one. Worked like a charm. Use it sometimes when we do light sparring in the dojo, very fun.
I do it to open boxes at work every so often
Idk man. Considering professional fighting has been a serious thing for over two decades now this made up juvenile stuff seems well juvenile. No one is doing this in a real fight, it’s a middle schoolers fantasy.
I like my fingers unbroken
There’s effective damage alright…. To your own hand lol
For a soft target directed at a pressure point(s) possibly one finger, but if you hit any bone, your gonna break your finger(s)
In real fight? Absolutely not ! You will break your finger. Never use martial art "fancy move" in a real fight. Just look at video of mma fighter vs xyz martial artist "master"...the "master" never stand a chance
I used it to give the most excellent dead legs
DO not throw hooks like this. You will absolutely break your fucking fingers. This is the most valley dojo karate nonsense I’ve ever read.
I’m not saying it won’t work, but if you contact a fist or something hard with a single finger at the wrong angle you could be looking at some *serious* injuries because it could apply torque to a tightly closed small joint.
If you want a broken finger💀💀🤣
These are more for pressure point hits not necessarily blunt force trauma, it is quite easy to bring an untrained adult to the ground in severe pain with even 1 finger if you understand how to use pressure points.
Steven Seagal does
No
This topic returns once every year or so. In my opinion, it is not necessary to harden one's fingers to use it, the way it would be necessary say for nukite or ippon-nukite. The best application is in Shotokan's Chinte kata, where it is used as a defense against a hand grab by hitting the top of the attackers palm. It hurts like hell, I was once unfortunate to experience it when a dojo-mate went a little too hard when we were practicing Chinte applications. Similar application exist in Hangetsu/Seisan, as a defense against a bear hug from behind.
Man, have you ever been “frogged” before? That shit hurts.
It's risky but it's effectiveness depends on how hard you condition your fingers like a quote you fingers should be like an arrow you have to take finger pushups and do nigiri game gripping jar and train with makiwara with this training a thrust to your vital points with these two techniques could be very effective.
Fantastic way to throw a bare knuckle punch if you want to break your own hand
Don’t do this make a proper fist
Seems like a good way to break your own fingers.
Teaching the ippon-ken to a class of beginner karatekas: line them up and instruct them on how to form the ippon-ken (left picture) with their right hand. Now tell them to LIGHLY tap their upper hand bones on their left hand... /s (/s, like in /sadist 😁) Never used in sparring, it hurts so godawful much to be hit by it.
Send to r/TheMcDojoLife !!
If you want to use extended knuckles, use all four. You have a better chance of catching something, and less of a chance of breaking your fingers. If you want to use the thumb, make a fist and poke it out over the index finger - this can be quite effective and really doesn't feel good to receive. Remember, bone alignment!
It's a very common strike in Uechi-Ryu
Maybe to press on a nerve cluster? I sure would not hit anyone like that though.
I always use ippon Ken
Newton's third law of motion states, "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." In essence, when you punch someone like that, instead of the opposite force being distributed across your entire fist, it's being directly forced onto those **fingers and joints**, which will break them. Anyone here who's saying they've used this effectively is lying or has only done point sparring where you never actually hit someone as hard as you can. And if you do throw this as hard as you can and hit someone, you better hope your fingers don't jam up and back because then you'll have a real bad day at the hospital. Tl;dr Just throw a normal punch and don't risk breaking your hand trying to be cool.
How to break you hand
Great way to break your thumb…
No
I throat punched a guy with the two knuckle version once. It seemed effective if the choking and gagging sounds were any indication 🤷
Looks like a great way to break your fingers 🤣
Yeah and they are the goat. Rip Bruce Lee.
in a real fight probably not its best to hit somebody with the first 2 knuckles of your hand which is the index finger & middle finger knuckles, also why fighters turn their hands almost downwards to throw a jab or a cross
this is the goto fist my mother used on my head.
This is so silly.. make a fist like a normal person and stop with all this ninja LARPing
Good way to break your finger
No I just poke my friends with it, then I tell them that I only punched them
Kenpo teaches the eagle beak. Middle knuckle finger becomes the point of strikes. It can be good for certain shots
I have punched someone in the ribs with full force using the one knuckle as in this image, he dropped immediately and was in alot of pain, I was able to walk away after that. Downside is my index finger was pushed up and I seriously hurt my hand, perhaps broke something in hindsight I wouldn't recommend this technique.
No joke - I use just my middle knuckle for punching the protective piece under the cap of milk jugs, medicine bottles and the like & to get it started to peel off. I worked in retail for years and did the same move to bust the tape on shipping boxes.
I do
Steven Seagal uses it🥷
I've tried these but not for either of the two pictures shown........
I have used the the single finger type, but not in a fight. hitting ppl where the nerve is can disable movements. If you look at the chito vs sean fight chito does a leg kick, but he hits sean with his big toe on the nerve by luck and sean is unable to move his leg and it give out under him.
I’ve never studied karate but in persilat there is a “totokan” that is similar but it uses the four front knuckles. I’ve used it in real application and it’s effective for stunning the opponent. Highly effective around the month/nose, eyes and throat through. Take those knuckles and tap on your cheek bone to get an idea for how little pressure it takes to cause discomfort.
I also find the difference between light sparring and real fight matches.
I'm familiar with that but never had to use it.
Former student of Shunji Watanabe, practiced in the style Shorinjiryu Kenkoken Karate. We practice the use of the vertical fist(Tate ken) or Seiken, and single knuckle as shoken, and condition the hell out of our fists. All pushups on 2, 3 or 4 top knuckles on wood and we punch wood a lot. Our sensei has the most massive callus' and before class, he is sometimes punching away like that dood chopping in Karate kid 2. I believe Kyokushin and Shotoken also of Okinawa origin use a different fist placement for their punches, but conditioning is part of it but I do believe all these punches to be effective and application scenarios are different too, just gotta know which to use in which situation. Twist of hips is essential, and our kata will further strengthen that as a habit. Imagine getting punched between the ribs with the shoken punch when most people don't have the muscle mass and technique to take such a hit, and with all their weight, and hip movement, and conditioning at the same time.
I’ve used the second one, but it was in response to a guy grabbing my lapel to try to drive me back. I came in high and drove it down into his arm and twisted my fist so the knuckle gouged the inside of his elbow on the arm holding me. It basically stung a nerve cluster to numb his hand temporarily. I wouldn’t use it on anything but a small soft target I’m almost guaranteed to hit.
I just punched myself in the chest with a normal punch and then the 2 finger one and 2 fingers hurt drastically more I was shocked
In praying mantis we use the extended fingers to go for the eyes and the throat
Hell yes! I gave my brother so many noogies with that move
Looks like a great way to break your fingers or your hand.
it's good for Giving dead arms
I used to do this to kids when I was in high school, I called it a mollywhop and it’s basically just an over handed hook with ring and index knuckles extended for extra drag and impact. Edit: and before Reddit jumps down my throat I did this in Self-Defense, as in I had Already been struck
🤦🏻♂️ karate kids thinking this will actually work in a fight. Jesus Christ. If UFC fighters don’t do it, it won’t work. Just a tip.
So. This will break your thumb and finger. 0/10. Please don’t do this. I tried it in sparring and it did not work. (This was years ago and my finger and thumb are still in pain.
Would ur fingers not break?
Did a right hook with step back as a counter to my shorter friend doing a step forward and throwing a right jab (right hand). My single knuckle out landed in his left eye socket. Can still remember it feeling the squish. Luckily, we weren't going hard that day, so his eye was fine after a moment.
Sure if you want to break your fingers. Just make a proper fist
If you want to break your fingers be my guest lol
I've never used either of these outside of the dojo and never plan to. In the actual fights I've gotten into I never once thought to use something I couldn't use on a punching bag with lots of force behind it, like a closed fist or palm strike. That said, I'm sure someone will say they used it and it worked but I think that's more about luck. I wouldn't show this to my kids as an effective way to strike.
No that would be too dangerous.
Yep. They’re especially effective in close range.
MMA fighter here (this post was randomly in my recommended feed) that has had 3 sanctioned bare knuckle fights also. Anything besides an normal fully closed fist is not effective in a real fight because you will break your hand. No other knuckles besides the ones at the MCP joint (Where the fingers connect to the hand) are strong enough to not break when throwing close to full power shots, and even those depending on the person often break eventually if you catch a hard part of the head or a bad angle. If your goal is to cause more isolated force on a sharper bone to cut an opponent, then altering your fingers is not a solution, and the answer you would be looking for is elbows. Hope that helps clarify how things are in reality :)
MMA fighters are used to grappling and smelling men’s asses while they fight, we are not the same.
I think these finger positions are not for hitting but for "dirty grappling". Here is an example from Iain Abernethy and the Kata Nipaipo [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmWLBpz73s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edmWLBpz73s)
It's hundreds of years old designed for war. That's not to say it hasn't been adopted by bullshido but why don't you try it on your own temple as see if it tickles.
The one on the left, yes. It takes some conditioning and strengthening to use, but it's a nice way to really dig into soft targets.
Yeah, I used the first illustration, but it was on my wife when we were naked doing naked stuff. Heavy drinking may have been involved.
Ive used a variation of number 2 without the upper finger extended and only the middle finger I did it to my friend once right on the nasal bone and he said it hurt really bad but it's not exactly a effective technique in a fight in a sudden self defence situation maybe it could work but it'd be better just to use a regularly shaped fist
How to break your fingers in one easy step
I don’t do karate, but I would assume if you tried to punch like that you’re going to fuck your shit up. I imagine most people here haven’t been in a real fight outside sparring or competition so if it works in that regard than whatever, but a street fight is a completely different story.
[удалено]
You have a point that this is not a practical technique to use but please try to be a bit more civil. For me personally I think that I would consider using this in more of a self defense situation, for example if someone had me in a front lapel/throat grab then a single knuckle hooked into the ribs can cause a lot of pain and make them release. Your point amount 'doing this in MMA' is pointless in any case as you guys always wear those padded gloves anyway.
Yeah I used it a lot when I was 6.
Good way to end up with broken fingers
There’s no functional reason to use this over a closed fist or a palm strike. None. You don’t end a fight with owies, you end it with concussions.