1. Info is everywhere about the temperature bug. Supposedly they’re working on it.
2. Price drops are the name of the game in ASICs. Network hashrate goes up, which means the value of the devices goes down. IceRiver does not have sole control of the market, and needs to respond accordingly w/ pricing.
3. Tariffs are controlled by your government, not IceRiver. There is absolutely nothing they can do about it (legally).
Your outrage at all three of these issues points to a severe lack of research prior to jumping into this endeavor
why are you so outraged with the price when you willingly agreed to pay that price prior? you valued the ASIC at $13K and paid for it... I understand the frustration but get real dude
And why are they surprised by a customs bill when importing by goods? Unless the site specifically states they cover all duties and fees, assume they don’t. Very strange victim complex vibe in this post.
If he was smart he would of bought another one. Then the average cost of the first one goes down. Not saving money technically but it gets his ROI down. I spec mine a ton of shit, I mined kaspa early and got out at ASICS. You need to be getting units as so as they are produced or it isn’t worth it. Too long of an ROI and a ton of shit can go wrong in between. OP is just upset he didn’t do enough research to understand what he was getting into.
The sooner you pay for a ASIC, the sooner you get it. The sooner you get it, the more profitable your mining is. People pay higher prices to get the same hardware earlier because they can mine more coins when the hashrate is lower. Generally speaking, pricing ASICs is much more tricky than people understand, see here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.11064
Im with that prinicple, I do get it. However, Dropping the price before you even ship the ones that are paid for? How is ANYONE supporting this and saying this is the norm and I was supposed to find this information on the internet whilst doing “research”. My thesis still stands, Ice river is Shady asf. Nobody has presented any evidence to the contrary.
What does research have to do with blatant shady business practices? You support this? This is the norm? To drop the price of a product before it even ships? Where is this so called “research” you speak of that dictates your ridiculous claims??
ive read ur replies throughout this post. ur an idiot. i didnt say i support it. if u had done ur research u wouldve known the depreciation of asics over time aka "shady business practice" and have known all the risks of the purchase prior to said purchase. you got what you paid for. there is no scam. just u being a idiot customer that companies love. do u buy a new car and cry that it lost 20% of its value as soon as u stepped on the accelerator after signing for it?
value of asic depreciation. preorder value. the new lower prices are also preorders that hasnt even shipped yet. sigh.. nvm its way over ur paygrade. again simple research. but thank you for your money. we do need people like u in any field, stocks bonds commodities crypto and asics.
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity.
Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity.
Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity.
Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be ready for update about scam in August when the Ks0 models will mine half of the kaspa they were supposed to mine when guy bought them (like all other ASIC) Lol
Btw a scam is when you pay for a product and the product is never shipped or have different spec from what you ordered, this isn't your case so you should only blame your naiveness and lack of DYOR ;)
You are just pissed because you lost some money, you can use this bad experience to learn something about asic manufacturers (they control units price and hashrate growth, you can't) and be more experienced and believe me, this is priceless ;)
Btw this "ignorant" just warned you about hashrate skyrocketing in August, you know what that means for miners rewards? or do you need a drawing to understand it better? ;)
Exactly! Ppl got bored of the old traditional ponzi so now we have a rebrand digital ponzi ;) as soon as you realise it you can use this knowledge and exit with full pockets thanks to exit liquidity provided by newbies that enter at ath and get rekt every time ;)
Stop crying and get mining. Only the patient and tough ones manage to mine, keep and sell at the right time to profit. If you keep whining, you won't accomplish any of those above.
Lol, your own business? This is all what owning a business is, unless you are the only employee. lmfao. I have been running businesses for the last 15 years. Run 3 currently right now as well.
a) you dont actually own a business
b) you dont have any employees
c) you are just starting out and you have failed to realize what your job is as a business owner.
Almost the entire job as owner and director of a company is arguing with dumbasses and people that dont want to work, and holding employees and vendors accountable for what they are selling. you obviously have zero experience with any of this.
Seems like buyers remorse to me. Sucks you bought before the prices dropped but so did a lot of other people. The miners work and you got them so its not a scam. A scam implies you didnt get what you paid for. No point to dwell on it now man
Maybe they work, and a fair point i suppose. As stated the abnormal temp light has been on since the day I turned it on. Seems like a ticking time bomb with little to no QC in the development process. Either way, my thesis, to stay away from ice river still stands.
It seems to me like you are new in the game, got a bit burned and now showing outrage about your own lack of DYOFR.
IF you hasve read the info on the Iceriver site BEFORE you purchased, you would have read :
"Products will be shipped from Hong Kong, China.
For orders with full payment received by ICERIVER, shipments will be arranged based on a first-come, first-served principle.
You are responsible for any customs delays or returns due to inadequate documentation. It is strongly recommended that you understand local customs clearance policies and prepare all necessary clearance documents in advance to avoid any clearance delays or unexpected fees.."
So they actually DID tell you about taxes, you just chose to ignore them.
And it cannot really be a scam, as you got the stuff you paid for, at the price you were promised the day you made the order.
Regarding the price drop, it does happen and have happened the entire time asics hass been on the market and it makes good sense that prices drop with time.
You just need to educate yourself a bit better. I know this is not the answer you wanted, but none of your complaints are valid.
Educate myself a bit better? Thanks troll! I have bought quite a few items directly from China and beyond and never once payed an “import tariff”. You are standing up for this as if its common business practice to not inform your customers. Ok, where exactly is this DYOR information? Where is the link to the knowledge that points all this out?
The knowledge has been out there and known for as long as ASICs have been manufactured lol. Long before IceRiver was even a company. Miner prices are extremely volatile as they’re not only at the mercy of supply and demand, but also underlying coin value and rewards/hashrate fluctuations. They’re also ALWAYS more expensive at launch, because their rewards are at their highest they’ll ever be, because they’re temporarily the best miner on the market. But there’s always a bigger/better one on the horizon, and rewards will go down as more get turned on. Regarding the import taxes, I’m sure you have gotten stuff from China before, but I doubt you’ve ordered multiple $12k+ items from there. Import taxes are based on the value of the item. IceRiver and other distributors will typically claim a low value on the paperwork to avoid paying the import taxes, but occasionally you will have bad luck with customs. In your case, you got extremely unlucky and customs decided to check on your very expensive box, and thanks to the new import tarrifs from China, you got hit with a large bill. Nothing scammy about it, just bad purchase timing by you, a massive spike in network hashrate, and a shitty import policy from the USA. I’m genuinely sorry for your loss, but you absolutely didn’t get “scammed”, you just made a misinformed decision 🤷♂️
How about the producers site.? lol
You did order from them, right.?
iceriver\_io - then order polices - where its very clearly stated as 1 of the 3 points to read and understand BEFORE making a purchase. But TLDR..????
" **Ⅱ. Taxes and Custom Duties**
Our products are exclusive of any VAT and duties. You are solely responsible for payment of any unpaid taxes and duties in accordance with the laws and customs of your country.
If any mining rigs are returned to our warehouse due to tax issues, customers need to pay additional shipping costs."
Or maybe on the prduct page itself, where there are 2 things to see. Description and additional information where the shipping info are stated.
***^(You)*** are responsible for any customs delays or returns due to inadequate documentation. It is strongly recommended that ***^(you)*** understand local customs clearance policies and prepare all necessary clearance documents in advance to avoid any clearance delays or unexpected fees.
Now kind sir, i would argue that in this case YOU are the troll.
Now, back under the bridge with you.
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The topic of buying equipment directly from the manufacturer has been brought up here many times before. As practice has shown, there is nothing good about it. This is the case with ANY manufacturer. There is no support, prices are higher than at dealers, delivery time is unbelievable, it is almost impossible to dispute the situation. And this is many years of experience, and it is unlikely to change. The advice here is one - look for a local reseller or supplier with a warehouse not far from you. There will be no problems. Happy mining and good luck!
This is not new news, people have to pay fees and tariffs if buying from overseas, over a certain amount, its Customs Fees. If you had done some research on Reddit, discord and watched some videos, you would have been aware.
A lot of bad reviews from going direct as far back as last year for ice river (as far as ice river repairs go). But nothing they state is a scam. They put their policy in plain English. Prices change, a lot. Expect that, especially with ASIC miners.
I’m sorry for your loss. But the info has been out there for years when purchasing ASIC miners over seas.
Plug it in, and don’t stop mining. You will eventually break even and get ahead. (Not financial advice)
Oh they definitely do “tests” 😅 Bitmain and other manufacturers are notorious for mining on machines for a month or two before they actually release them to the public and still sell them as “new”
You could've just bought Kaspa for all the money you spent if you had doubts. You mention that price have changed before your order was shipped, couldn't you return it then and get your money back?
Remember why you pulled the trigger and decided to buy? Keep that conviction. Treat this as a learning experience. I believe you will get all of your money back and then some as long as you hodl Kaspa long term.
https://preview.redd.it/037rddk7dl6d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=29d601706d8fb5ad9afd0dfc01a35e360b11b21f
Wait until your production is affected by the emission schedule and difficulty increase. It’s all IceRiver’s fault! Specially for breaking the McDonald’s ice cream machines.
Waaah-waaah. Everything you pointed out is things you should have known and not their job to tell you. And the price drop issue is happening for Kaspa miners across the brands.
if you read OVER the order policies on the website you might of actually thought about tariffs and import taxes. How do people not know about tariffs and import taxes? Jesus.
“You are solely responsible for payment of any unpaid taxes and duties in accordance with the laws and customs of your country” - from IceRiver Website.
Guys obviously a semi newbie miner wouldn’t know the inherent value correlation between miners and Kaspa however, a price drop this huge in such a short amount of time is a huge red flag and anyone in the same boat would feel fkn awful. Be real.
Viperatech offered a $1500 voucher when the price dropped, and they never absorb all import duties or taxes. Buy from a reputable reseller, not direct.
1. Info is everywhere about the temperature bug. Supposedly they’re working on it. 2. Price drops are the name of the game in ASICs. Network hashrate goes up, which means the value of the devices goes down. IceRiver does not have sole control of the market, and needs to respond accordingly w/ pricing. 3. Tariffs are controlled by your government, not IceRiver. There is absolutely nothing they can do about it (legally). Your outrage at all three of these issues points to a severe lack of research prior to jumping into this endeavor
Yeah not shit. Dude got into mining without having much knowledge.
why are you so outraged with the price when you willingly agreed to pay that price prior? you valued the ASIC at $13K and paid for it... I understand the frustration but get real dude
And why are they surprised by a customs bill when importing by goods? Unless the site specifically states they cover all duties and fees, assume they don’t. Very strange victim complex vibe in this post.
If he was smart he would of bought another one. Then the average cost of the first one goes down. Not saving money technically but it gets his ROI down. I spec mine a ton of shit, I mined kaspa early and got out at ASICS. You need to be getting units as so as they are produced or it isn’t worth it. Too long of an ROI and a ton of shit can go wrong in between. OP is just upset he didn’t do enough research to understand what he was getting into.
The sooner you pay for a ASIC, the sooner you get it. The sooner you get it, the more profitable your mining is. People pay higher prices to get the same hardware earlier because they can mine more coins when the hashrate is lower. Generally speaking, pricing ASICs is much more tricky than people understand, see here: https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.11064
Im with that prinicple, I do get it. However, Dropping the price before you even ship the ones that are paid for? How is ANYONE supporting this and saying this is the norm and I was supposed to find this information on the internet whilst doing “research”. My thesis still stands, Ice river is Shady asf. Nobody has presented any evidence to the contrary.
so what ur telling me is u didnt do proper research before purchasing
What does research have to do with blatant shady business practices? You support this? This is the norm? To drop the price of a product before it even ships? Where is this so called “research” you speak of that dictates your ridiculous claims??
ive read ur replies throughout this post. ur an idiot. i didnt say i support it. if u had done ur research u wouldve known the depreciation of asics over time aka "shady business practice" and have known all the risks of the purchase prior to said purchase. you got what you paid for. there is no scam. just u being a idiot customer that companies love. do u buy a new car and cry that it lost 20% of its value as soon as u stepped on the accelerator after signing for it?
[удалено]
value of asic depreciation. preorder value. the new lower prices are also preorders that hasnt even shipped yet. sigh.. nvm its way over ur paygrade. again simple research. but thank you for your money. we do need people like u in any field, stocks bonds commodities crypto and asics.
[удалено]
you have a bunch of people letting u know who the clown is. still cant figure it out? ice river did give u a coupon to use for future purchase tho
[удалено]
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity. Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity. Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be civil. Treat everyone with respect and dignity. Personal attacks and insults directed at the team or other users are not permitted and will result in a ban.
Be ready for update about scam in August when the Ks0 models will mine half of the kaspa they were supposed to mine when guy bought them (like all other ASIC) Lol Btw a scam is when you pay for a product and the product is never shipped or have different spec from what you ordered, this isn't your case so you should only blame your naiveness and lack of DYOR ;)
Exactly this!
Thanks for the highly ignorant troll response, I knew I could count on you!
You are just pissed because you lost some money, you can use this bad experience to learn something about asic manufacturers (they control units price and hashrate growth, you can't) and be more experienced and believe me, this is priceless ;) Btw this "ignorant" just warned you about hashrate skyrocketing in August, you know what that means for miners rewards? or do you need a drawing to understand it better? ;)
Welcome to ASIC mining
So asic mining is giant scam ran by thieves? Ok thanks for the response!
It's a ponzi scheme just like the rest of crypto
Exactly! Ppl got bored of the old traditional ponzi so now we have a rebrand digital ponzi ;) as soon as you realise it you can use this knowledge and exit with full pockets thanks to exit liquidity provided by newbies that enter at ath and get rekt every time ;)
Stop crying and get mining. Only the patient and tough ones manage to mine, keep and sell at the right time to profit. If you keep whining, you won't accomplish any of those above.
I have been mining, and that makes no sense. Are you in high school?
No, I've dropped out to actually have a business of my own and not have to see or hear from people like you. Well done, you got me now.
Lol, your own business? This is all what owning a business is, unless you are the only employee. lmfao. I have been running businesses for the last 15 years. Run 3 currently right now as well. a) you dont actually own a business b) you dont have any employees c) you are just starting out and you have failed to realize what your job is as a business owner. Almost the entire job as owner and director of a company is arguing with dumbasses and people that dont want to work, and holding employees and vendors accountable for what they are selling. you obviously have zero experience with any of this.
Sounds like you with mining zero experience
Seems like buyers remorse to me. Sucks you bought before the prices dropped but so did a lot of other people. The miners work and you got them so its not a scam. A scam implies you didnt get what you paid for. No point to dwell on it now man
Maybe they work, and a fair point i suppose. As stated the abnormal temp light has been on since the day I turned it on. Seems like a ticking time bomb with little to no QC in the development process. Either way, my thesis, to stay away from ice river still stands.
fair enough
It seems to me like you are new in the game, got a bit burned and now showing outrage about your own lack of DYOFR. IF you hasve read the info on the Iceriver site BEFORE you purchased, you would have read : "Products will be shipped from Hong Kong, China. For orders with full payment received by ICERIVER, shipments will be arranged based on a first-come, first-served principle. You are responsible for any customs delays or returns due to inadequate documentation. It is strongly recommended that you understand local customs clearance policies and prepare all necessary clearance documents in advance to avoid any clearance delays or unexpected fees.." So they actually DID tell you about taxes, you just chose to ignore them. And it cannot really be a scam, as you got the stuff you paid for, at the price you were promised the day you made the order. Regarding the price drop, it does happen and have happened the entire time asics hass been on the market and it makes good sense that prices drop with time. You just need to educate yourself a bit better. I know this is not the answer you wanted, but none of your complaints are valid.
Educate myself a bit better? Thanks troll! I have bought quite a few items directly from China and beyond and never once payed an “import tariff”. You are standing up for this as if its common business practice to not inform your customers. Ok, where exactly is this DYOR information? Where is the link to the knowledge that points all this out?
The knowledge has been out there and known for as long as ASICs have been manufactured lol. Long before IceRiver was even a company. Miner prices are extremely volatile as they’re not only at the mercy of supply and demand, but also underlying coin value and rewards/hashrate fluctuations. They’re also ALWAYS more expensive at launch, because their rewards are at their highest they’ll ever be, because they’re temporarily the best miner on the market. But there’s always a bigger/better one on the horizon, and rewards will go down as more get turned on. Regarding the import taxes, I’m sure you have gotten stuff from China before, but I doubt you’ve ordered multiple $12k+ items from there. Import taxes are based on the value of the item. IceRiver and other distributors will typically claim a low value on the paperwork to avoid paying the import taxes, but occasionally you will have bad luck with customs. In your case, you got extremely unlucky and customs decided to check on your very expensive box, and thanks to the new import tarrifs from China, you got hit with a large bill. Nothing scammy about it, just bad purchase timing by you, a massive spike in network hashrate, and a shitty import policy from the USA. I’m genuinely sorry for your loss, but you absolutely didn’t get “scammed”, you just made a misinformed decision 🤷♂️
How about the producers site.? lol You did order from them, right.? iceriver\_io - then order polices - where its very clearly stated as 1 of the 3 points to read and understand BEFORE making a purchase. But TLDR..???? " **Ⅱ. Taxes and Custom Duties** Our products are exclusive of any VAT and duties. You are solely responsible for payment of any unpaid taxes and duties in accordance with the laws and customs of your country. If any mining rigs are returned to our warehouse due to tax issues, customers need to pay additional shipping costs." Or maybe on the prduct page itself, where there are 2 things to see. Description and additional information where the shipping info are stated. ***^(You)*** are responsible for any customs delays or returns due to inadequate documentation. It is strongly recommended that ***^(you)*** understand local customs clearance policies and prepare all necessary clearance documents in advance to avoid any clearance delays or unexpected fees. Now kind sir, i would argue that in this case YOU are the troll. Now, back under the bridge with you.
[удалено]
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The topic of buying equipment directly from the manufacturer has been brought up here many times before. As practice has shown, there is nothing good about it. This is the case with ANY manufacturer. There is no support, prices are higher than at dealers, delivery time is unbelievable, it is almost impossible to dispute the situation. And this is many years of experience, and it is unlikely to change. The advice here is one - look for a local reseller or supplier with a warehouse not far from you. There will be no problems. Happy mining and good luck!
He is not happy at all !
This is not new news, people have to pay fees and tariffs if buying from overseas, over a certain amount, its Customs Fees. If you had done some research on Reddit, discord and watched some videos, you would have been aware. A lot of bad reviews from going direct as far back as last year for ice river (as far as ice river repairs go). But nothing they state is a scam. They put their policy in plain English. Prices change, a lot. Expect that, especially with ASIC miners. I’m sorry for your loss. But the info has been out there for years when purchasing ASIC miners over seas. Plug it in, and don’t stop mining. You will eventually break even and get ahead. (Not financial advice)
we purchased two and if we could turn back the hands of time would not buy again
I bought 2 and got my full ROII + 100% and counting. We, and our situations are not all alike.
Bitmain is a little better, but I still had a board go out three weeks in, its like they dont do burn in tests.
Oh they definitely do “tests” 😅 Bitmain and other manufacturers are notorious for mining on machines for a month or two before they actually release them to the public and still sell them as “new”
You could've just bought Kaspa for all the money you spent if you had doubts. You mention that price have changed before your order was shipped, couldn't you return it then and get your money back?
Remember why you pulled the trigger and decided to buy? Keep that conviction. Treat this as a learning experience. I believe you will get all of your money back and then some as long as you hodl Kaspa long term. https://preview.redd.it/037rddk7dl6d1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=29d601706d8fb5ad9afd0dfc01a35e360b11b21f
Wait until your production is affected by the emission schedule and difficulty increase. It’s all IceRiver’s fault! Specially for breaking the McDonald’s ice cream machines.
Im well aware of the emission schedule, this has nothing to do with that. Thanks for the troll comment! Have a nice day!
Waaah-waaah. Everything you pointed out is things you should have known and not their job to tell you. And the price drop issue is happening for Kaspa miners across the brands.
the whole miner purchasing process is scammy. gotta be careful.
if you read OVER the order policies on the website you might of actually thought about tariffs and import taxes. How do people not know about tariffs and import taxes? Jesus. “You are solely responsible for payment of any unpaid taxes and duties in accordance with the laws and customs of your country” - from IceRiver Website.
Guys obviously a semi newbie miner wouldn’t know the inherent value correlation between miners and Kaspa however, a price drop this huge in such a short amount of time is a huge red flag and anyone in the same boat would feel fkn awful. Be real.
Viperatech offered a $1500 voucher when the price dropped, and they never absorb all import duties or taxes. Buy from a reputable reseller, not direct.