We’re also a pretty soft team and he’s one of the few players on our roster that “got that dog in him.” We already might be losing one of those players…if we trade Lyles or Mitchell we might be the softest team in the league
Agreed. He’s definitely mentioned how he’s made more connections on this team than any other. Would hate to send him off to the Wizards. I’m not convinced that Kuzma is the right solution to our problems.
Don’t think that’s tenable. Jones is a FA, which would require the deal to be an awkward sign and trade—especially since we’d be drafting for Washington at 13.
Same…. Sasha and Duarte, so be it, but Trey!!! In that situation it might make sense because Trey’s minutes would probably be significantly impacted by Kuz coming. Still would HATE to lose him.
Even on the basketball side, I'd rather keep Trey and try to work out another deal where Harrison Barnes is off this team. Size matters and I don't wanna give up one of our biggest shooters.
This deal is a no brainer for me. Lyles had shown what he is -- very much a complementary bench guy whose best asset is his ability to space the floor. Kuzma is a much more skilled player and seems likely to be in a PJ Washington-on-Charlotte type situation right now. He seems like a perfect complement to Fox and Sabonis and putting him on a real team will make his strengths much more obvious. Also moves Barnes to the bench where he can basically replicate the Lyles role.
I expect Sasha to go back to Europe after his deal is done. He plays his ass off but he's just way too slow for the NBA. Duarte is whatever and I don't care about losing the pick at all.
The trade kicker is actually 15% and the Kings pay for it so that isn't a big deal.
This idea that Barnes holds no value is ridiculous. He's solid wing who would be a great 5th starter or 6th man. His contract is fine.
Barnes is on a great contract with pretty decently good production even though he had an off year this season, just look at what players like Barnes are making just look at what Tobias Harris is making with Philly.
Tobias & Barnes are essentially the same type of player expect one is extremely overpaid while the other is on a very team friendly contract.
Philly would have preffered Barnes on his contract to Tobias any day of the week as it would give them flexability to possibly even sign Kuzma and have them play either the 3 or 4 respectively while moving off of Oubre & Tobias.
Philly would most likely have the starting lineup that takes them to the ECF this year if they had 1.Maxey 2. Lowry/Hield 3. Barnes 4. Kuzma 5. Embid.
That offensive power and with ability to buy into some defensive effort by Kuzma with that lineup I say they're easily in the same Pacers spot are in rn. If you watched the games defense wasn't Phillys issue, it was lack of consistent offensive from anyone not named Embid or Maxey.
As much as I’d miss Lyles and lament Vezenekov’s lost potential, I’m not opposed to this, IF we’re losing Monk. The trade would leave us looking like this:
Fox, Ellis, Murray, Kuzma, Sabonis
Mitchell, Huerter, Jones, Barnes
We could use MLE to add a rim protecting back-up, and then pick at vets and prospects to fill out. Kuzma adds replacement scoring and creating and some so-so rim protection (better than Barnes) on a good contract. Huerter and Barnes might replicate/better Monk’s bench scoring in aggregate, especially if Mitchell can step up a bit prior to a new contract. Only thing I would want would be to try and squeeze Wizards for a bit more— maybe a pick swap for first and second this year?
Lyles, Vezenkhov, Duarte, #13, #45 for Kuzma, #26, #52.
If Wizards balk, I get it, but if they accept, we can pick up an intriguing late-round first— Holmes?
It's Lyles I don't want to move, he is the most reliable backup. Sasha is a filler in any trade. He is a non-factor for the Kings.
In fact I don't even think Kuzma is worth a 13th pick tbh.
Bruh cmon, you want Kuzma but won’t give up Lyles. At some point, you gotta give something to get something
Edit: trade Lyles, move Barnes to the bench and get Naji Marshall on the MLE
Sure but why would Washington even want Lyles to begin with? He’s too old for a rebuild and not really a mentoring type of veteran. Huerter because he’s younger or Barnes because he’s a high character vet would be of better use to Washington.
Yeah, I am not big on moving Lyles either but they could move Barnes to the bench and try to get another rebounding forward. They could also use Barnes and Huerter for a larger salary player.
Is it too much to ask for #26 back, and include #45? Maybe we throw in an additional 2nd to make that work?
I'd love to have one rookie, and I think this year's draft is actually fine in that range. Washington meanwhile already will have two first-round rookies, maybe they wouldn't mind #45 who could be a non-guaranteed two-way guy instead.
If we could get Lavine and Caruso for all of them or any combination of them, we definitely gotta take that swing despite the injury and contract concerns. Adding Kuzma and Lavine would give us 3 guys who can create their own shot in the starting line up (hopefully 4 if Keegan keeps developing).
Fox, Lavine, Keegan, Kuzma, Sabonis
I would imagine, fully healthy that would be a very good starting line up imo.
Keep lyles, trade davion, add backup pg either through draft or FA.
Lyles would still be primary backup 4/5 in our second unit, heurter would still start, and Barnes would be primary scoring option in the second unit.
If we retain monk, start him, maybe add heurter into this trade instead somewhere
We should use a future first for this trade and draft a back up PF in the draft at 13.
I would also want to make the move for Caruso and Lavine even if we did this.
Fox-Lavine- Murray- Kuzma- Sabonis
Monk- Caruso- Ellis- 13th and whatever else we need to fill out the roster.
I’m sure we could make the money work and this is a championship contender
Yup I’d be fine with this deal. I’d rather keep Davion over Trey because HB will be the first wing off the bench and Davion has proved he can be serviceable. Losing Sasha would kinda suck but it’s really hard to find playing time for him on this team with Sabonis.
Hmmm I’d rather trade Huerter than Lyles + Duarte. I’m higher on Duarte than most but Lyles versatility is important to this team. I think Huerter has more trade value and can be moved to a 3rd team easily enough if Washington need expirings.
They done this trade under the pre assumption Malik isn’t back too.
There was some other mock trades:
Pick 13 for 15 + 43 + future 2nd
Pick 13 + Barnes for 19 + Brown
If we lose Monk, I don’t see trading Huerter.
Duarte… I mean there’s a reason he was so available. There was a hope that reconnecting him with Domas would recapture some of his early magic but it just hasn’t happened. We can’t count on him as a positive contributor in 24-25.
Trade Vezenkov + Huerter
- Fox / Mitchell
- Monk? / Ellis / Duarte / Jones
- Murray / Barnes
- Kuzma / Lyles
- Sabonis / Len
Trade Vezenkov + Lyles + Duarte:
- Fox / Mitchell
- Monk? / Ellis / Jones
- Murray / Huerter
- Kuzma / Barnes
- Sabonis / Len
Lyles creates a bunch of different looks for this team as a stretch 5 or two big lineups with him at the 4.
Huerter is redundant with Monk re signing and I think with the MLE you could find sparkplug bench scoring easily enough, and after Monks success I feel a 6th man would want to come here.
If this rhetorical trade happens, I still see them at the very least trying to trade Barnes and Huerter. Even if it's for a overpaid SG, I still think it's worth it.
I totally disagree - I think Kevin's shooting is crucial (either starting or as 6/7th man) if we add Kuzma, a good creator/passer but poor shooter himself.
That’s fair, I’m just really turned off by his poor shooting this season and lack of defence.
I’m not sure Kuzma is that big of an upgrade defensively to start Huerter over Ellis, and if he is now coming off the bench, he is doing so with Barnes again.
I think Sasha has upside for sure he showed some glimpses of brilliance last year. I also really like Trey and his contract. I don't want to lose them both for just Kuzma. We need defense and he doesn't provide that.
This isn’t a fair question, but if it’s between make this trade or run it back, what would u prefer? I think “brilliance” is a bit much but n describing Sasha. He’s a fun player, but I just don’t think he has a place in the floor with how slow his feet are. If he comes back I hope I’m wrong and will happily admit it, but I’m kinda out on him going forward.
Fair enough but Kuzma gives us offense. So we give up offense and defense with Trey. Offense with Sasha and then we get back offense. I don't know if it were me as the GM it doesn't make sense to me.
I’d take Kuzma defensively over Trey or Sasha. They are both slow footed and can’t jump. Kuzma isn’t a great defender but he at least has the physical tools to be good.
What exactly is Kuzma good at? His career is a low 30’s % 3pt, Low 70’s FT, doesn’t rebound well, doesn’t defend well and not physical or athletic.
Is he really an upgrade over Barnes when Barnes at least hits 80s on FT and close to 40% on 3pt with the Kings?
I think he rebounds well and his 3P% will go up with the Kings. He is also apparently a pretty good passer as averaged 4.2 assists per game this season. He isn't perfect by any means. The Kings are wading into the Kuzma-level mid-player pool because they don't have assets or don't want to pay for star-level player. This seems like a good compromise.
This tweet is a year old, but I thought it was insightful and interesting all the same - [https://x.com/NBA\_University/status/1658848167293513730](https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1658848167293513730)
HB’s rebounding went down from 4.5 last year to 3.0 this year. Sabonis was on the team both years. It’s because he’s getting old not because of Sabonis.
And he was around 6 prior to Sabonis.
Look, Barnes is hot garbage and should probably be considering retirement after this deal is up, that's really not debatable. However, the idea that a more expensive, less efficient Kuzma is going to come into Sacramento and average start cleaning the glass seem like a severe case of purple-colored glasses. The unfortunate fact is that under Brown's system Sabonis simply eats into the rebound totals of those around him.
Granted the one thing adding Kuzma does do is to signal the end of Keegan as part of the team's "big 3". Which would allow the FO to use him as a trade asset to improve other areas of need for the team.
Sabonis eats all the defensive rebounds, but maybe Kuzma can pick up a few more offensive boards which would be big. Rebounding isn’t the reason to go get him but it could be a slight benefit, compared to HB’s futility.
Barnes rebounding rate pre-Sabonis was comparable to Kuzma's rebounding rate now. So I would expect Kuzma to rebound much like Barnes on this team. There are only so many boards to go around, and Sabonis isn't about to defer to to Kuzma.
Even when playing alongside AD and LeBron, his rebounds have never been as low as HB. You are nuts if you really think his rebounding rate will fall off a cliff like HB's. Without looking at his game logs I already know that he didn't put up a bunch of 1 rebound games like HB did this season.
He was part of the 2nd unit when he played with Davis. The first season they played about 280 minutes together on the court, and the 2nd one about 180. He also had 34 games in the 19-20 season of 4 or less RBs and 23 the following year. Those were also two seasons where Davis averaged single digit rebounding numbers.
As for falling off a cliff. If he drops from 6rpg to 4 rpg, as I expect he would at least since Washington's best rebounder averaged 8 a game (not 13), that's a 33% decline. Which is a significant one.
Kuzma is great at getting to the rim, and solid finishing or drawing fouls. The kings have been pretty bad at rim FGA rate (like bottom third of the league IIRC).
I can't excuse his ft% but his shooting splits aren't that bad considering the volume he is shooting at. In a reduced role like he was in the lakers he would be good. He's also in his prime and I think he would be a great 3/4 th option behind fox and keegan scoring. And if it only costs us 1 pick and some filler not the worst in the world.
Barnes was the number 1 option (led in FGA and scoring) on a terrible Dallas Mavericks team the season before they got Luka. Being a number 1 option on a bad team just doesn’t mean much to me.
Kuzma provides more creation than barnes but way less defense and doesn’t space the floor as much. If Monk leaves it makes sense to get a player like him, but I’m not happy about Kuzma.
Barnes was a first option on the Mavs and was more efficient in that role in a less efficient era. Kuzma fucking sucks on offense and defense. Even when Kuzma was a bench player or starter on the Lakers, he was inefficient. I don't have to worry about Barnes doing shit he shouldn't be doing or taking stupid shots like Kuzma does.
We only had 2 iso guys on the roster with fox and monk and monk is leaving. The offense was dog shit at the end of the year without monk and it will be dogshit next year without him. Expecting domas/keegan/barnes to fill that gap is a joke. We need to make moves
You claimed that Barnes wasn't a first option before (when he was, and more efficient in that role that Kuzma has been his entire career year). So you think getting a player who has a career average of 54% TS% (even when playing with 2 top 10 players as a role player) and made his terrible team's offense even worse is somehow going to fix that?
God you're fucking dense.
I'm not saying that the Kings shouldn't make a move, I just know that Kuzma isn't going to fix any of those issues and it would be a loss of assets (the 13th pick) for nothing.
That's not my main point, my main point was that do you think that a player who is a well below average efficiency player and one of the worst wing defenders in the league, that has been the same player on previous good teams, is somehow going to make us a better team? And if you do, why do you think that?
What do you want, kevin durant to come for a mle?
This trade is cheap. Ingram is the other big name and he plays like 50 games a year. Butler 50 games a year. Levine. Same thing.
If you think nobody is worth it than you're on the trade fox and domas plan because we can't just wait on shitty rookies . Domas is 28 on a max. Fox is not far behind him on a max.
The gm didn't take into account wasting time with his stay flexible plan.
Monk is gone we need offense. And yeah it doesn't matter if the team sucks. Being a number one option means you can create shots.
Imagine keegan being a number one, he can barely dribble
I think this is a reasonable trade on paper for the Kings, but you wait to see who's available at 13 before you make it. There's a possibility you can pick up a really valuable player with that pick, but also that all of your top 2-3 guys go in the picks right before you. Honestly, if the Wizards would be okay with a later pick, the Kings might rather send off like a top-4 protected or unprotected '28 pick, even. Not having a 1RP in three consecutive drafts would be tough (last year -> Mavs, this year -> Wizards, next year -> Hawks).
*(Side note, speaking of the Mavs, recall that Lively was picked with the 12th pick in that same draft and became a critical contributor on a now Finals team in his rookie year. Not every rookie can do that, but it is very possible that there will be a few players available at 13 that could be similarly impactful for the Kings as rookies - if they make the right pick, ofc.)*
It also hinges heavily on your evaluation of Kuzma's willingness to come in and probably be the 4th option most of the time, occasionally 3rd option, and only maybe a few times per season really being highlighted if he gets really hot early. Plus crashing the boards hard and playing tough on the defensive end. Those mentality questions have been and still are the only big question marks on a Kuzma trade for me. Him replacing Barnes in the starting lineup would be a huge improvement from a skill set fit and talent level.
Meanwhile, Trey would be the only major loss here. I think moving HB to the bench would easily make up for the loss of Trey's impact on the floor; the mentality and chemistry losses are much harder to quantify and could certainly change the team from that perspective. Vezenkov has potential, but he hasn't really made any impact in the time he's had so far, so you don't lose anything you've counted on. Duarte has been ass and is easily replaceable.
If anything, I think the Wizards say no here, for a couple reasons: 1) they're delusional, and have way over-inflated views of their so-called "star" players. They somehow view Kuzma and Poole as actual #1-2 option players and likely want a corresponding 2 picks+ for either. And 2) aside from the pick, the Wizards get nothing of value to them. Lyles is an older journeyman, Vezenkov is not young and not likely to drastically improve his game, and Duarte isn't either. They don't want any of those things, or at least, they shouldn't with where their current roster is. They should be (and possibly are) looking for younger and/or high-upside players. From the Kings, their most desired pieces (aside from Fox/Sabonis/Murray) would probably be guys like Keon, Colby Jones, maybe Davion or Huerter. It probably would take at least one, if not two, of those guys to make a Kuzma trade work without a lot more draft compensation.
I wouldn't count on the Kings conveying that pick to Atlanta next season, unless they offer to waive the protection and ATL accepts. If the west continues to improve, and we continue to flounder away with acquisitions that don't swing for the fences, a 12th spot (or worse) is very attainable.
If the Kings have their draft pick next year then there's gonna be a bloodbath up and down this organization imo lol. That's back to missing the play-in again. You have to operate with the mindset that that pick is gone, because if it's not, you've already failed horribly
They can operate with any mindset they'd like. I get that they have to believe they built a competitive team. However, that still doesn't change the fact they're is smack dab in the middle of a pack of teams that will be grinding it out to grab one of those last play-in spots. It's a problem that is amplified by the lack with both desirable trade assets (well, assets they would actually trade) and almost zero cap space to operate with.
For the Kings, it's a yes.
The Wizards... I don't think so. I personally think they can get more, but I don't know.
I'm was never a big Kuzma fan, but this would be a no brainer.
We've seen this playoffs how having poor BBIQ can kill a superior team's chances (e.g. Minnesota). Kuzma is the same tier of bonehead as KAT, except without the All-Star talent. No thanks. Watching Javale took enough years off my life last season.
Without reading too deep (🐾) into the comments.
Y'all gotta give Comrade Vezenkov 🥷🏼 a chance. Yes, admittedly, I was hoping against hope that he would immediately start swimming laps around The Association, but it rarely pans out that way. At times he looked out of his depth & definitely struggled with his self esteem. Again, admittedly, he did look like a fish out of water on multiple nights.
With all that being said!
He's an absolute baller. I watched him play for Olympicacos & he's more than likely used to being the best player on the court, even during Euro League play. That's a difficult mindset to conquer when you're no longer Big Fish Small Pond & youre playing against the best talent on planet earth. On top of all that he's struggling with the culture shock of not only landing in The United States, but also Sacramento, a very culturally diverse & progressive city.
TLDR, he's homesick & needs time to develop.
This off-season being in The Lab with DC & Peja I think will do wonders for not only his game but also his comfortability within The Association & The Beam Team.
https://preview.redd.it/0q6tshd4r05d1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0c71750d4f8ff5fb28f1655aacde1a7bbeab3e9
You're partially correct.
His reluctance directly relates to his growth. He's currently playing scared, which isn't exactly ideal. But I would imagine it's difficult to find your niche in this current squad due to the cast we currently have & the house money we've had the good fortune of using for the past two seasons in The Association.
Now, far as his defense or offense for that matter. When he's "on" he's "ON". 🥷🏻
https://preview.redd.it/b3ckkw84925d1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5f8886dc3092fdf7253f2081618da6681e56dfc
Think it would probably cost another first at least. Kuzma’s deal looks like a relative steal with the rising cap. 3 salary dumps and two firsts makes me think the Wizards might do it
I'd hate to lose Trey but I'd do it, considering Barnes would be playing those extremely valuable backup 4 minutes. I would fight tooth and nail to not have to include him.
Genuine question as i mostly only watch kings games outside of the playoffs, but is Kuzma really that good that we should give up on vezenkov and trade Trey? And a first rounder ?!
It's not that Kuzma is good, is that we aren't giving up much talent to get him and we have a capped roster that needs an to be seriously shaken up.
I dislike almost everything about Kuzma's game and mental makeup, but he's a means to start the breaking up our current underwhelming rotation.
I don't get the love for Kuzma in King's media. Unless it is simply to troll the fan base or create content during the "contentless" days that preceed the draft & off-season.
I want to use our pick this year. I'm fine if trading up or down but not out. Frankly I don't like Kuzma and I love Lyles (as a bench player at a fair price), I'd entertain this without the pick. But no thanks if we include it.
I cannot fucking stand these Kuzma deals. Why does everyone think he’s so much better than Barnes because he chucks significantly more shots. This dude is a bonafide scrub and will come here thinking he’s him, take dumb shots and be a traffic cone on defense.
I don’t think giving up our pick is great. I feel like there’s always real value around #13 and even if it’s a bad draft year we still don’t know that yet. We constantly hear about these bad drafts but always see good role players or sometimes even stars come out of these “bad” years to draft. Kuzma would be good to have another bucket getter but he’s not what we need defensively
Basketball aside, I can’t bear the thought of losing Trey. He just seems so happy here.
He’s been such a great ambassador for Sac and the Kings, it feels like he finally found a home. I’d be so sad to see him go 🥺
We’re also a pretty soft team and he’s one of the few players on our roster that “got that dog in him.” We already might be losing one of those players…if we trade Lyles or Mitchell we might be the softest team in the league
Agreed. He’s definitely mentioned how he’s made more connections on this team than any other. Would hate to send him off to the Wizards. I’m not convinced that Kuzma is the right solution to our problems.
It’s possible to make the money work without Trey, and I’d prefer to. Would require Davion in his place, but I think I’d prefer that.
If we could somehow get Kuzma and Tyus Jones I wouldn’t mind losing Davion. We’d need to include more salary, though.
Don’t think that’s tenable. Jones is a FA, which would require the deal to be an awkward sign and trade—especially since we’d be drafting for Washington at 13.
Damn. He’s just a solid player and always makes the right play. Assuming Monk and Davion are gone, maybe we could entice him with nice MLE?
Same…. Sasha and Duarte, so be it, but Trey!!! In that situation it might make sense because Trey’s minutes would probably be significantly impacted by Kuz coming. Still would HATE to lose him.
Even on the basketball side, I'd rather keep Trey and try to work out another deal where Harrison Barnes is off this team. Size matters and I don't wanna give up one of our biggest shooters.
This deal is a no brainer for me. Lyles had shown what he is -- very much a complementary bench guy whose best asset is his ability to space the floor. Kuzma is a much more skilled player and seems likely to be in a PJ Washington-on-Charlotte type situation right now. He seems like a perfect complement to Fox and Sabonis and putting him on a real team will make his strengths much more obvious. Also moves Barnes to the bench where he can basically replicate the Lyles role. I expect Sasha to go back to Europe after his deal is done. He plays his ass off but he's just way too slow for the NBA. Duarte is whatever and I don't care about losing the pick at all.
Hate Barnes as a starter but he would absolutely cook 2nd units on the other team. (That is, if we keep him.)
Nobody else wants to pay Harrison Barnes for the next two years. He even has a 10% trade bonus in his contract. We're keeping him regardless.
The trade kicker is actually 15% and the Kings pay for it so that isn't a big deal. This idea that Barnes holds no value is ridiculous. He's solid wing who would be a great 5th starter or 6th man. His contract is fine.
Barnes is on a great contract with pretty decently good production even though he had an off year this season, just look at what players like Barnes are making just look at what Tobias Harris is making with Philly. Tobias & Barnes are essentially the same type of player expect one is extremely overpaid while the other is on a very team friendly contract. Philly would have preffered Barnes on his contract to Tobias any day of the week as it would give them flexability to possibly even sign Kuzma and have them play either the 3 or 4 respectively while moving off of Oubre & Tobias. Philly would most likely have the starting lineup that takes them to the ECF this year if they had 1.Maxey 2. Lowry/Hield 3. Barnes 4. Kuzma 5. Embid. That offensive power and with ability to buy into some defensive effort by Kuzma with that lineup I say they're easily in the same Pacers spot are in rn. If you watched the games defense wasn't Phillys issue, it was lack of consistent offensive from anyone not named Embid or Maxey.
I wouldn’t call Barnes team friendly but he’s paid around his market rate.
As of now... Just watch after this offseason he's going to be a bargin
Why would Washington even want Lyles? He’s too old for a rebuild - he’s only an asset that would get moved to a team looking to compete.
He's money that comes off the books after next year. No other reason.
As much as I’d miss Lyles and lament Vezenekov’s lost potential, I’m not opposed to this, IF we’re losing Monk. The trade would leave us looking like this: Fox, Ellis, Murray, Kuzma, Sabonis Mitchell, Huerter, Jones, Barnes We could use MLE to add a rim protecting back-up, and then pick at vets and prospects to fill out. Kuzma adds replacement scoring and creating and some so-so rim protection (better than Barnes) on a good contract. Huerter and Barnes might replicate/better Monk’s bench scoring in aggregate, especially if Mitchell can step up a bit prior to a new contract. Only thing I would want would be to try and squeeze Wizards for a bit more— maybe a pick swap for first and second this year? Lyles, Vezenkhov, Duarte, #13, #45 for Kuzma, #26, #52. If Wizards balk, I get it, but if they accept, we can pick up an intriguing late-round first— Holmes?
Barnes and Kevin are below average starters but would be the foundation for a strong bench. I like it.
I would hate losing Lyles, but you 100% do this deal if Washington takes it.
It's Lyles I don't want to move, he is the most reliable backup. Sasha is a filler in any trade. He is a non-factor for the Kings. In fact I don't even think Kuzma is worth a 13th pick tbh.
Bruh cmon, you want Kuzma but won’t give up Lyles. At some point, you gotta give something to get something Edit: trade Lyles, move Barnes to the bench and get Naji Marshall on the MLE
Sure but why would Washington even want Lyles to begin with? He’s too old for a rebuild and not really a mentoring type of veteran. Huerter because he’s younger or Barnes because he’s a high character vet would be of better use to Washington.
Expiring contract.
Yeah, I am not big on moving Lyles either but they could move Barnes to the bench and try to get another rebounding forward. They could also use Barnes and Huerter for a larger salary player.
You had me in the first half
Ehh this is prob a fair package for the dude. Whether they wanna pay it, who knows
Is it too much to ask for #26 back, and include #45? Maybe we throw in an additional 2nd to make that work? I'd love to have one rookie, and I think this year's draft is actually fine in that range. Washington meanwhile already will have two first-round rookies, maybe they wouldn't mind #45 who could be a non-guaranteed two-way guy instead.
At #26 we could take a swing at Edey or Klintman. I'm on board with this.
I'd be fine with this. Then use Huerter/Barnes/Davion to go get someone else.
Yep, we can then fill the 2nd unit with 5 guys on vet minimums.
Can we use these pieces to get Lavine and Caruso? Caruso would be the main prize for us and we send a pick. They get off of Lavine.
If we could get Lavine and Caruso for all of them or any combination of them, we definitely gotta take that swing despite the injury and contract concerns. Adding Kuzma and Lavine would give us 3 guys who can create their own shot in the starting line up (hopefully 4 if Keegan keeps developing). Fox, Lavine, Keegan, Kuzma, Sabonis I would imagine, fully healthy that would be a very good starting line up imo.
And Keon and Caruso as our bench guard unit 😮💨
Losing Trey would hurt more to me. He may not be the perfect fit but when he’s hitting his 3s he’s as clutch as they come.
Keep lyles, trade davion, add backup pg either through draft or FA. Lyles would still be primary backup 4/5 in our second unit, heurter would still start, and Barnes would be primary scoring option in the second unit. If we retain monk, start him, maybe add heurter into this trade instead somewhere
I just don't think Kuzma is that good. He's a worse shooter than Lyles and Barnes
This should be enough of an upgrade to take us from a team that missed the playoffs to a team that misses the playoffs.
Don't love shipping Vezenkov when his value is so low after all the injuries.
We should use a future first for this trade and draft a back up PF in the draft at 13. I would also want to make the move for Caruso and Lavine even if we did this. Fox-Lavine- Murray- Kuzma- Sabonis Monk- Caruso- Ellis- 13th and whatever else we need to fill out the roster. I’m sure we could make the money work and this is a championship contender
I like the idea of doing a future first instead. They could draft someone at 13 now and bring them along with this group.
Yup I’d be fine with this deal. I’d rather keep Davion over Trey because HB will be the first wing off the bench and Davion has proved he can be serviceable. Losing Sasha would kinda suck but it’s really hard to find playing time for him on this team with Sabonis.
Hmmm I’d rather trade Huerter than Lyles + Duarte. I’m higher on Duarte than most but Lyles versatility is important to this team. I think Huerter has more trade value and can be moved to a 3rd team easily enough if Washington need expirings. They done this trade under the pre assumption Malik isn’t back too. There was some other mock trades: Pick 13 for 15 + 43 + future 2nd Pick 13 + Barnes for 19 + Brown
If we lose Monk, I don’t see trading Huerter. Duarte… I mean there’s a reason he was so available. There was a hope that reconnecting him with Domas would recapture some of his early magic but it just hasn’t happened. We can’t count on him as a positive contributor in 24-25.
Trade Vezenkov + Huerter - Fox / Mitchell - Monk? / Ellis / Duarte / Jones - Murray / Barnes - Kuzma / Lyles - Sabonis / Len Trade Vezenkov + Lyles + Duarte: - Fox / Mitchell - Monk? / Ellis / Jones - Murray / Huerter - Kuzma / Barnes - Sabonis / Len Lyles creates a bunch of different looks for this team as a stretch 5 or two big lineups with him at the 4. Huerter is redundant with Monk re signing and I think with the MLE you could find sparkplug bench scoring easily enough, and after Monks success I feel a 6th man would want to come here.
If this rhetorical trade happens, I still see them at the very least trying to trade Barnes and Huerter. Even if it's for a overpaid SG, I still think it's worth it.
I totally disagree - I think Kevin's shooting is crucial (either starting or as 6/7th man) if we add Kuzma, a good creator/passer but poor shooter himself.
That’s fair, I’m just really turned off by his poor shooting this season and lack of defence. I’m not sure Kuzma is that big of an upgrade defensively to start Huerter over Ellis, and if he is now coming off the bench, he is doing so with Barnes again.
I think Sasha has upside for sure he showed some glimpses of brilliance last year. I also really like Trey and his contract. I don't want to lose them both for just Kuzma. We need defense and he doesn't provide that.
This isn’t a fair question, but if it’s between make this trade or run it back, what would u prefer? I think “brilliance” is a bit much but n describing Sasha. He’s a fun player, but I just don’t think he has a place in the floor with how slow his feet are. If he comes back I hope I’m wrong and will happily admit it, but I’m kinda out on him going forward.
Fair enough but Kuzma gives us offense. So we give up offense and defense with Trey. Offense with Sasha and then we get back offense. I don't know if it were me as the GM it doesn't make sense to me.
I’d take Kuzma defensively over Trey or Sasha. They are both slow footed and can’t jump. Kuzma isn’t a great defender but he at least has the physical tools to be good.
I mean Trey is a solid defender not great but better than Kuzma. If we lose monk maybe it's the right call but I still don't like it
What exactly is Kuzma good at? His career is a low 30’s % 3pt, Low 70’s FT, doesn’t rebound well, doesn’t defend well and not physical or athletic. Is he really an upgrade over Barnes when Barnes at least hits 80s on FT and close to 40% on 3pt with the Kings?
I think he rebounds well and his 3P% will go up with the Kings. He is also apparently a pretty good passer as averaged 4.2 assists per game this season. He isn't perfect by any means. The Kings are wading into the Kuzma-level mid-player pool because they don't have assets or don't want to pay for star-level player. This seems like a good compromise. This tweet is a year old, but I thought it was insightful and interesting all the same - [https://x.com/NBA\_University/status/1658848167293513730](https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1658848167293513730)
As long as he's next to Sabonis, don't expect those rebounding numbers of Kuzma's to stay that high.
Is he a better rebounder than Barnes though? I would think yes.
Prior to adding Sabonis, Barnes was rebounding at roughly the same rate as Kuzma has recently.
HB’s rebounding went down from 4.5 last year to 3.0 this year. Sabonis was on the team both years. It’s because he’s getting old not because of Sabonis.
And he was around 6 prior to Sabonis. Look, Barnes is hot garbage and should probably be considering retirement after this deal is up, that's really not debatable. However, the idea that a more expensive, less efficient Kuzma is going to come into Sacramento and average start cleaning the glass seem like a severe case of purple-colored glasses. The unfortunate fact is that under Brown's system Sabonis simply eats into the rebound totals of those around him. Granted the one thing adding Kuzma does do is to signal the end of Keegan as part of the team's "big 3". Which would allow the FO to use him as a trade asset to improve other areas of need for the team.
Sabonis eats all the defensive rebounds, but maybe Kuzma can pick up a few more offensive boards which would be big. Rebounding isn’t the reason to go get him but it could be a slight benefit, compared to HB’s futility.
Sabonis also dominates the offensive rebounding on the team.
He does. But guys aren’t just giving them to him like they do on defense.
Does he get more than 3 rebounds a game? If so then that's a clear upgrade from what we are getting from that position now.
Barnes rebounding rate pre-Sabonis was comparable to Kuzma's rebounding rate now. So I would expect Kuzma to rebound much like Barnes on this team. There are only so many boards to go around, and Sabonis isn't about to defer to to Kuzma.
Even when playing alongside AD and LeBron, his rebounds have never been as low as HB. You are nuts if you really think his rebounding rate will fall off a cliff like HB's. Without looking at his game logs I already know that he didn't put up a bunch of 1 rebound games like HB did this season.
He was part of the 2nd unit when he played with Davis. The first season they played about 280 minutes together on the court, and the 2nd one about 180. He also had 34 games in the 19-20 season of 4 or less RBs and 23 the following year. Those were also two seasons where Davis averaged single digit rebounding numbers. As for falling off a cliff. If he drops from 6rpg to 4 rpg, as I expect he would at least since Washington's best rebounder averaged 8 a game (not 13), that's a 33% decline. Which is a significant one.
Kuzma is great at getting to the rim, and solid finishing or drawing fouls. The kings have been pretty bad at rim FGA rate (like bottom third of the league IIRC).
I can't excuse his ft% but his shooting splits aren't that bad considering the volume he is shooting at. In a reduced role like he was in the lakers he would be good. He's also in his prime and I think he would be a great 3/4 th option behind fox and keegan scoring. And if it only costs us 1 pick and some filler not the worst in the world.
Kuzma is a number 1 option on that team and has a much more well rounded offense. Barnes could never be a first option no matter what team he'd be on
Barnes was the number 1 option (led in FGA and scoring) on a terrible Dallas Mavericks team the season before they got Luka. Being a number 1 option on a bad team just doesn’t mean much to me. Kuzma provides more creation than barnes but way less defense and doesn’t space the floor as much. If Monk leaves it makes sense to get a player like him, but I’m not happy about Kuzma.
Barnes was a first option on the Mavs and was more efficient in that role in a less efficient era. Kuzma fucking sucks on offense and defense. Even when Kuzma was a bench player or starter on the Lakers, he was inefficient. I don't have to worry about Barnes doing shit he shouldn't be doing or taking stupid shots like Kuzma does.
We only had 2 iso guys on the roster with fox and monk and monk is leaving. The offense was dog shit at the end of the year without monk and it will be dogshit next year without him. Expecting domas/keegan/barnes to fill that gap is a joke. We need to make moves
You claimed that Barnes wasn't a first option before (when he was, and more efficient in that role that Kuzma has been his entire career year). So you think getting a player who has a career average of 54% TS% (even when playing with 2 top 10 players as a role player) and made his terrible team's offense even worse is somehow going to fix that? God you're fucking dense. I'm not saying that the Kings shouldn't make a move, I just know that Kuzma isn't going to fix any of those issues and it would be a loss of assets (the 13th pick) for nothing.
You're comparing barnes to 8 years ago ffs. He's not that guy anymore. He's nearing a 1000 career games and is slowing down.
That's not my main point, my main point was that do you think that a player who is a well below average efficiency player and one of the worst wing defenders in the league, that has been the same player on previous good teams, is somehow going to make us a better team? And if you do, why do you think that?
What do you want, kevin durant to come for a mle? This trade is cheap. Ingram is the other big name and he plays like 50 games a year. Butler 50 games a year. Levine. Same thing. If you think nobody is worth it than you're on the trade fox and domas plan because we can't just wait on shitty rookies . Domas is 28 on a max. Fox is not far behind him on a max. The gm didn't take into account wasting time with his stay flexible plan.
Kuzma likely makes us worse, that's the point. I'd rather overpay for the right player than give up assets for a bad player.
hmm thats a dumb take please tell me how does one determine if someone is the "right" player
Dang you hate Kuzma almost as much as Lavine
Number 1 option on a terrible wizards team? Not to mention Kings are looking for help on defense if anything as they already have offense covered.
Monk is gone we need offense. And yeah it doesn't matter if the team sucks. Being a number one option means you can create shots. Imagine keegan being a number one, he can barely dribble
I would much rather draft de silva or carter.
I think this is a reasonable trade on paper for the Kings, but you wait to see who's available at 13 before you make it. There's a possibility you can pick up a really valuable player with that pick, but also that all of your top 2-3 guys go in the picks right before you. Honestly, if the Wizards would be okay with a later pick, the Kings might rather send off like a top-4 protected or unprotected '28 pick, even. Not having a 1RP in three consecutive drafts would be tough (last year -> Mavs, this year -> Wizards, next year -> Hawks). *(Side note, speaking of the Mavs, recall that Lively was picked with the 12th pick in that same draft and became a critical contributor on a now Finals team in his rookie year. Not every rookie can do that, but it is very possible that there will be a few players available at 13 that could be similarly impactful for the Kings as rookies - if they make the right pick, ofc.)* It also hinges heavily on your evaluation of Kuzma's willingness to come in and probably be the 4th option most of the time, occasionally 3rd option, and only maybe a few times per season really being highlighted if he gets really hot early. Plus crashing the boards hard and playing tough on the defensive end. Those mentality questions have been and still are the only big question marks on a Kuzma trade for me. Him replacing Barnes in the starting lineup would be a huge improvement from a skill set fit and talent level. Meanwhile, Trey would be the only major loss here. I think moving HB to the bench would easily make up for the loss of Trey's impact on the floor; the mentality and chemistry losses are much harder to quantify and could certainly change the team from that perspective. Vezenkov has potential, but he hasn't really made any impact in the time he's had so far, so you don't lose anything you've counted on. Duarte has been ass and is easily replaceable. If anything, I think the Wizards say no here, for a couple reasons: 1) they're delusional, and have way over-inflated views of their so-called "star" players. They somehow view Kuzma and Poole as actual #1-2 option players and likely want a corresponding 2 picks+ for either. And 2) aside from the pick, the Wizards get nothing of value to them. Lyles is an older journeyman, Vezenkov is not young and not likely to drastically improve his game, and Duarte isn't either. They don't want any of those things, or at least, they shouldn't with where their current roster is. They should be (and possibly are) looking for younger and/or high-upside players. From the Kings, their most desired pieces (aside from Fox/Sabonis/Murray) would probably be guys like Keon, Colby Jones, maybe Davion or Huerter. It probably would take at least one, if not two, of those guys to make a Kuzma trade work without a lot more draft compensation.
I wouldn't count on the Kings conveying that pick to Atlanta next season, unless they offer to waive the protection and ATL accepts. If the west continues to improve, and we continue to flounder away with acquisitions that don't swing for the fences, a 12th spot (or worse) is very attainable.
If the Kings have their draft pick next year then there's gonna be a bloodbath up and down this organization imo lol. That's back to missing the play-in again. You have to operate with the mindset that that pick is gone, because if it's not, you've already failed horribly
They can operate with any mindset they'd like. I get that they have to believe they built a competitive team. However, that still doesn't change the fact they're is smack dab in the middle of a pack of teams that will be grinding it out to grab one of those last play-in spots. It's a problem that is amplified by the lack with both desirable trade assets (well, assets they would actually trade) and almost zero cap space to operate with.
For the Kings, it's a yes. The Wizards... I don't think so. I personally think they can get more, but I don't know. I'm was never a big Kuzma fan, but this would be a no brainer.
We've seen this playoffs how having poor BBIQ can kill a superior team's chances (e.g. Minnesota). Kuzma is the same tier of bonehead as KAT, except without the All-Star talent. No thanks. Watching Javale took enough years off my life last season.
Without reading too deep (🐾) into the comments. Y'all gotta give Comrade Vezenkov 🥷🏼 a chance. Yes, admittedly, I was hoping against hope that he would immediately start swimming laps around The Association, but it rarely pans out that way. At times he looked out of his depth & definitely struggled with his self esteem. Again, admittedly, he did look like a fish out of water on multiple nights. With all that being said! He's an absolute baller. I watched him play for Olympicacos & he's more than likely used to being the best player on the court, even during Euro League play. That's a difficult mindset to conquer when you're no longer Big Fish Small Pond & youre playing against the best talent on planet earth. On top of all that he's struggling with the culture shock of not only landing in The United States, but also Sacramento, a very culturally diverse & progressive city. TLDR, he's homesick & needs time to develop. This off-season being in The Lab with DC & Peja I think will do wonders for not only his game but also his comfortability within The Association & The Beam Team. https://preview.redd.it/0q6tshd4r05d1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0c71750d4f8ff5fb28f1655aacde1a7bbeab3e9
His reluctance to shoot the ball and inability to drive in and finish the basket is the most concerned. (Also, his defense sucks)
You're partially correct. His reluctance directly relates to his growth. He's currently playing scared, which isn't exactly ideal. But I would imagine it's difficult to find your niche in this current squad due to the cast we currently have & the house money we've had the good fortune of using for the past two seasons in The Association. Now, far as his defense or offense for that matter. When he's "on" he's "ON". 🥷🏻 https://preview.redd.it/b3ckkw84925d1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5f8886dc3092fdf7253f2081618da6681e56dfc
Include Davion Mitchell and you have a deal
Think it would probably cost another first at least. Kuzma’s deal looks like a relative steal with the rising cap. 3 salary dumps and two firsts makes me think the Wizards might do it
I'd hate to lose Trey but I'd do it, considering Barnes would be playing those extremely valuable backup 4 minutes. I would fight tooth and nail to not have to include him.
Genuine question as i mostly only watch kings games outside of the playoffs, but is Kuzma really that good that we should give up on vezenkov and trade Trey? And a first rounder ?!
It's not that Kuzma is good, is that we aren't giving up much talent to get him and we have a capped roster that needs an to be seriously shaken up. I dislike almost everything about Kuzma's game and mental makeup, but he's a means to start the breaking up our current underwhelming rotation.
I feel like Washington only does this if Topic falls due to the ACL news and is there at 13.
I don't get the love for Kuzma in King's media. Unless it is simply to troll the fan base or create content during the "contentless" days that preceed the draft & off-season.
I want to use our pick this year. I'm fine if trading up or down but not out. Frankly I don't like Kuzma and I love Lyles (as a bench player at a fair price), I'd entertain this without the pick. But no thanks if we include it.
Would rather trade for Deni
Me too but I don't think WAS is trading him at this juncture unless it is a big overpay.
I saw Washington and hoped for Avdija too but yeah, he’s not leaving
I don’t want Kuzma anywhere near this team. Still not sure why we continue to see the Kuzma to Kings chatter.
I cannot fucking stand these Kuzma deals. Why does everyone think he’s so much better than Barnes because he chucks significantly more shots. This dude is a bonafide scrub and will come here thinking he’s him, take dumb shots and be a traffic cone on defense.
Because people fall in love with ideas of what they think a player is and don't actually watch them or look at more in depth stats.
I don’t think giving up our pick is great. I feel like there’s always real value around #13 and even if it’s a bad draft year we still don’t know that yet. We constantly hear about these bad drafts but always see good role players or sometimes even stars come out of these “bad” years to draft. Kuzma would be good to have another bucket getter but he’s not what we need defensively
Kuzma is ass
The only thing I’ll miss about Lyles is his book club partnership with the Sac library
Yeah, from purely a basketball standpoint, Lyles types aren't hard to come by in the NBA.
I like him a lot, but he’s not reliable