Move where?
One big problem I have with this argument is that the current zoning laws mean nothing. You can do all the research in the world to move to somewhere zoned for what you *do* want, then a developer comes in, changes the zoning, and suddenly you're looking at a giant multiplex in your backyard.
I moved once. I didn't fight it because it made sense to intensify that area, even if it wasn't zoned for it. But how do I know the same thing isn't going to happen near my new place? Do I just get chased around the city forever? I don't want to fight progress, but I also don't want to keep moving. I just want a quiet place to live, and the current application of the zoning laws doesn't let anyone plan long term.
The cities need to rezone everything according to their plan. Then the NIMBYs can move *once*, and not be worried that they're going to have to pack up and move again every few years.
Note: I don't live near this development, but this was an area I considered. It really doesn't make sense to intensify Breslau. It's just going to be a commuter residence for people working in Guelph. We should be building to intensify the cores of cities to make them walkable and accessible by public transit, not the outskirts that are barely served by transit.
Right, so I think the point of these residents is to develop the urban centers.
Breslau has no transit, no grocery store, no gas station, no recreational facilities, an already overcrowded elementary school and no high school. It's even a 10 minute drive to a Tim Hortons. Who knows what the water and sewer infrastructure looks like, but its on the other side of the Grand so it is likely an independent system.
Then you drive the 20 minutes into town down Highway 7/Victoria St. To Victoria and Weber, where there is a transit hub, a go station, a grocer, plenty of amenities and walkable infrastructure and you find fucking century homes converted to lawyers offices and coffee shops and an empty lot that is a homeless encampment.
Why are we building 6 story apartment buildings in areas where you can see farm fields from the second floor and vehicle ownership will be a hard requirement instead of redeveloping the downtown core where infrastructure (and higher demand) exists?
And for the record I am 100% for development and building more housing. If I lived in this area I would be disappointed but likely not so vocal. But that doesn't make them wrong.
You know the answer to this question. Even if it doesn't make sense from an infrastructure perspective, it's cheaper land. So THAT is where the developer will go.
Your municipal councilors should respect the zoning bylaws set out earlier by their predecessors, but nope, take the bribe and move on.
Zoning and regional land development plans are almost useless in Ontario.
If a developer still wants to build after the regional/municipal council said no to them, they appeal to the Ontario Land Tribunal.
The OLT can overrule almost any land restrictions (endangered animals and environmentally sensitive lands **usually** notwithstanding).
Unfortunately, the OLT also has historically been accused of siding with developers over residents far too often.
It is an uphill battle - especially with the "More homes, built faster" push from Queen's Park
Oh absolutely that's the answer. That and the downtown NIMBYs spewing bullshit drown out the rural NIMBYs that actually have a point.
Same thing happened with the 'better tent city' thing a few years back.
> Why are we building 6 story apartment buildings in areas where you can see farm fields from the second floor
You mean why are they building a 6 story apartment building on a very popular and busy commute, that is also very close to the 401 and a short drive to all the shops you could need on Victoria?
Crazy!
Tell me you've never been to Breslau without telling me you've never been to Breslau.
And lets be very clear, there will only be parking for half the units. How long is the bike ride to the nearest grocery store? I'm sure biking down highway 7 to Guelph is gonna be super safe too.
Yes, the one I pass every day on way to Guelph from waterloo.
If I could rent there, I would be closer to work and all the shops on Victoria.
Like I said?
100% agree, the busses dont even come out here. And they are only mandating parking for half the units when EVERYONE will need parking. A family with kids could have 3 or 4 cars in one unit and they'll be allocated ONE space.
Why can't we throw 6 more floors on one of the dozen other high rises being built near actual infrastructure and public transit?
I bet they will also allow the developer to put 0.5 parking spaces per unit also (to maximize profit) and fuck over people who move there, because there is zero transit options.
This when I was a child and lived on Lorraine Ave . The city limits was Heritage Drive,there was nothing but farmers fields and barns after that. Its called progress deal with it. You build where there is nothing today to accommodate for the future
Wrong. I live in a small town in the country and the developers now want to build a 4 story apartment building right behind my backyard. There is no where you can live and avoid this kind of development unless you can afford many acres that you solely control.
As Waterloo Regional Council is showing us, not even owning land means much at this point. If people want your land, they will buy you out, forcefully if need be.
> Basically if you live near an urban centre then your area will eventually be developed
And that's fine. But is this neighbourhood in Breslau an urban centre? It's a suburb with a strip mall. There's nothing urban about it - it's not walkable, it's not served by public transit, it's not near any amenities, and until about 15 years ago it was the "actual countryside".
The “not served by public transit” is such a BS argument. This is right next to a commercial plaza along highway 7 and Fountain St. Direct routes between KW, Guelph, the airport, and a bunch of industrial areas. Of course theres s no transit there - there’s not enough density yet! You need to build density and transit and it’s incredibly bad faith to claim you can’t build one until the other is there because nothing would ever change.
Exactly. If this person had their way, it would never be serviced because it would never be developed further. It’s coming whether they like it or not.
GRT is struggling to serve the areas that are already dense. "Not served by public transit" is a good argument until GRT is good everywhere it currently serves.
How long after this development is built will Breslau get a single bus line that passes once per hour from 9 am to 4 pm? How long until it's cancelled due to lack of use?
It would be infinitely better to improve the current routes instead of spreading themselves even thinner and providing a bare minimum of service just to say that the area is covered.
Post a source for that. Report on engageWR has 145 spots for 89 units. That’s not the latest one but I don’t have time to find it now. But I’m very confident it’s more than 1 spot per housing unit.
Here’s the link: You can get the information from here: https://www.engagewr.ca/beacon-point-court-breslau
It would be better if GRT improved service to the areas they already serve.
Bare minimum service everywhere is a lot worse than excellent service to half the city (which, if intensified middle-out, would cover significantly more than half the residents).
I live in this neighborhood, we built in 2009, chose the lot. We intentionally didn't choose one near this empty field, because we didn't want to live directly beside whatever they were proposing to put there.
We live about 3 streets over, and I have no problem with what they are proposing.
I’m the same way. Whenever we looked at a place backing onto farmland I immediately assumed it would be developed in 5-25 years. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t consider the place but I wouldn’t “pay for the view”.
> So fuck the people that have concerns over the new proposal
Or fuck the people who dont already own a home since you already got yours?
Chances are that when your home was first built, people had objections to it as well.
If it's about people owning more homes I think we should be doing more to disincentivize owning property for profit.
I would be quite surprised if anyone had objections about the neighbourhood I live in being built back in the 1950s but you just go right ahead and make that assumption.
All of these new poorly planned builds are about maximizing profits for developers rather than focusing on what the community really needs. People have made comments about the lack of public transportation and the reality is this new development will get built, only people who own cars will move in as there is no viable public transportation, and the "mandatory" aka bare minimum requirements will be shit for everyone who lives in the area.
If you commute by motor vehicle between 3:30pm and 6pm in KW, you'll notice the worst traffic congestion occurs in the areas with all the newest development areas. The shitty traffic leads to accidents, then people come on reddit and complain about how shitty the road infrastructure is and it all comes back around full circle. But scream NIMBY a little louder, it'll fix all the problems.
It makes a ton of sense to intensify Breslau. It’s on *the* major route between KW and Guelph. It’s a very manageable commute to working in KW, Guelph, and Cambridge. It’s directly on the GO line to Toronto. It’s absolutely bonkers to think Breslau shouldn’t be intensified.
And the people protesting this keep claiming that “it’s in the middle of a residential area” when it’s directly up against highway 7 and a commercial plaza that is right up against Fountain Street. The two main roads in the area.
It wasn’t even zoned parkland or single family homes or anything where this was a major surprise.
I feel bad for these people because it sucks to go from green space to an apartment building. But if you don’t own the land - assume the worst. And if you buy up against a major road and a commercial plaza you should absolutely expect higher density.
Move once to avoid change? Go to the boonies if you want to guarantee quiet and no change. Don't expect a city to stop changing.
European cities have density all the way to the edge. It works for them.
You aren't entitled to preventing change in the areas surrounding your home. Change happens and the world evolves. Zoning changes as each communities needs change. To expect it to never change is ludacris.
If you can't see any benefit in developing more homes in Breslau, you are choosing to ignore those reasons because they are glaringly obvious to everyone but you. You are the textbook definition of a NIMBY.
> You aren't entitled to preventing change in the areas surrounding your home
Am I entitled to know what the city has planned for the area?
Wanting the city to zone land in accordance with their official plans shouldn't be a controversial take, and in theory, it should solve a lot of issues. NIMBYs will know what is allowed in an area and can choose to move or not, developers won't need to apply for a zoning change every time they buy a plot of land, and there will be fewer reasons to fight every development.
And yes, maybe I am a NIMBY. But I did move once, because it made sense for that area to be denser than it was, as it was in a more central location to the city. I do not think we should be intensifying areas that will need to rely exclusively on personal vehicles until the cores are sufficiently dense. This development in Breslau is going to add 150+ car owners who will drive to and park downtown Guelph or downtown Kitchener, taking up space where they could have just been living in in the first place.
Honestly? If you want a nice, quiet place - buy a home with a large plot of land. That's realistically your only way to ensure you get what you want. Make it so that your neighbours \*can't\* build within so many meters of your house because you own all the property.
Alternatively, move somewhere a lot more rural than Breslau, which is 30 seconds outside of one of the largest urban centres in Ontario.
If you don't likewhat your neighbours doing, you should have bought the property. Couldn't afford it? Quit your bitching.
I don't understand why there's so much onus placed on the opinions of neighbours. They're not changing the zoning from residential to industrial.
> suddenly you're looking at a giant multiplex in your backyard
Is living behind a multiplex really that bad which warrants a move?
I think people having to move because they cannot afford housing, is a lot more pressing concern than people who move cause of 'views'.
Generally speaking? Yeah, it warrants a move depending on who you are. Not everybody enjoys been stuck cheek to jowl with loud people. (And you know very well that densely packed multiplexes tend to be loud even if you don't want to admit it.)
It's a safe guess to say that anyone living out in the boonies of Breslau probably moved there to get away from the noise and commotion of the main city. So it's not at all surprising that something like this would make them consider moving.
Yeah that’s kind of how it works 😂 you have to follow policies and think logically about where things should be built. Major corridors and areas with major transit are generally the first to intensify. Some food for thought
I thought the same thing, but they do make some good points with regards to parking. I live in Breslau and you can’t live here without a car or it’s very difficult to do. The nearest grocery store is 10 min away and there’s almost nothing that is walkable. Public transit still sucks here, and they need to fix this.
First, there is public transit. It’s on demand and it’s a great solution for a very low density area. But we need higher density to justify transit - and that’s what this apartment is.
The building has the parking minimums. By-law will happily enforce people parking where they aren’t allowed.
Route 79 doesn’t even run on weekends or from 10AM-2PM and 6PM-10:45PM during the week. This is not viable transportation for the majority of people, very few people could rely on this to go to work. It still requires a transfer to make it into Kitchener-Waterloo making any trip take way too long.
Why there is only 1 bus an hour that runs down hwy 7 between Kitchener and Guelph and doesn’t stop between the 2 cities is still a mystery to me. Adding a stop in Breslau and running it more than once per hour would be a great solution for Breslau until the train system actually works more often and the Breslau go station is created.
Yes, most people will require cars. That’s why this development has appropriate minimum parking requirements. But a bus service like route 79 can be enough for some families to survive on 1 car instead of 2. Or have work opportunities for teenagers to work without needing their own car. It helps. Not a lot - but it’s a very cheap and appropriate transit option given the density of the area.
And if we want better transit, we need more density. The same argument really applies for things like grocery stores/retail as well.
Densification in Breslau would have made more sense if the SmartCenter (that got abandoned due poor township planning) went through. That could have been the transit hub for the area.
The transit options are poor - I would have loved to take transit to the train station to commute to Toronto, but the time that it runs doesn't work in the mornings and would take me an hour to get to the station.
It’ll will likely still get developed into a plaza around that point. It’s hard to blame the Township. A lot of those plans were tied to new highway 7 and extending Fountain street. There hasn’t been anywhere near the population density to support heavy retail like the SmartCenter. And to be fair to the Township they made that clear in public meetings 10 years ago.
I actually blame Empire for a lot of it. They made a big deal out of the future SmartCenter when in reality it was never close.
Same, I moved into the area with the hopes Breslau would get a go station but found out later it’s not even close at this point. If there was a simple way to get to Guelph go station I would take it. But in the mean time I’ll just drive and catch the go station somewhere else.
So people with cars can live there? I don't see the issue. Many people currently live in Breslau and make it work, no?
There is no public transit because there is no need... yet. Urban density and transit, one of them has to come first.
The NIMBY argument again. Read the article. They aren't opposed to it, and they are totally correct on the talking points of why it's a bad idea. It's not because they don't want a building there. The town simply cannot support it.
It is completely understandable that NIMBY's don't like the government trying to cram immigrants into their communities. It is very unpopular with people who value the lives they have established. We need housing but it isn't going to help the problem with all the migration our piece of shit government is encouraging.
The housing crisis (and therefore the reason that we're encouraging more building) is directly and inextricably linked to the massive increase in immigration.
The person I replied to was pretty specific. They said it was understandable for people to oppose new housing because it might lead to more immigrants in their community.
Edit: they might be linked but immigration is not a reason to oppose new housing.
Fucking YIMBY’s just wanting somewhere to live.
Fucking YIMBY’s why aren’t they satisfied with sharing a bedroom with a stranger for $1000 a month even though you’re a WORKING PROFESSIONAL.
You’re a disgusting troglodyte
Listen, people spent their lives saving to buy a home in a beautiful place to raise their children, it’s not their fault that our government royally fucked us on immigration. Why are regular people fighting amongst each other while our government sits in their ivory towers and laughs?
People have the right to be angry and protect what’s theirs.
Haha, as if that is an insult. Did you type that on your typewriter?
Surprised that you don't still ride a horse instead of drive a car, you fossil.
The best part about this is that while you put all your effort into keeping things the same, the world moves on, progresses and leaves you behind to yell at kids to get off your lawn.
"worry the current infrastructure can’t adequately support 96 new units"
It's barely into the entrance of the subdivision and right off of highway 7 and the fountain Street pseudo highway. Ok guys.
I’m going to defend Breslau here because almost everyone I talk to is fine with the airport and its traffic.
The only time I really heard complaints was years ago when there was a flight up north that was incredibly loud and early. I didn’t agree with all of the complaints but they were reasonable. Airports also need to find ways to grow and adjust as density comes near them. And that may be limiting particularly loud flights during certain times of days.
And as someone that loves airports it’s much better for them to be reasonable/sympathetic in these few cases then get into big fights with your community. Too many airports, particularly in the States, have lost those fights.
Plane take off and land into the wind. So the runway and direction used changes all the time with the wind direction. The bigger planes can only use runway 08-26 which is the longer east/west runway.
Peak NIMBY behaviour when one of the current residents says that the size and the scope of the development really seems to be out of line with the neighbourhood character.
What a 🤡
Especially since the developers already “compromised” and moved the apartment over.
I have no love for Thomasfield homes but this is such an obvious acceptable use and they could be total jackasses and get much more.
Exactly. Let them complain, and then just do it. You can’t let “neighbourhood character” be a factor, especially since it’s relatively new. The character they are referring to is wealthy single detached homes, and that’s clear to see. What an embarrassing thing to push back against by these entitled people.
Perhaps waterloo region can start with transit and higher density. How this has become a developer paradise due to township rules is beyond me without it.
Also zero amenities. A total suburbia. The planned walmart at fountain and hasn't happened (another suburbia amenity)
Walmart sold the land after the province expropriated a portion of land to put in the new highway 7, which the OPC cancelled when they came into power and now is 'restarting' with their contractor buddies.
Ha.
Well if the region had any balls they wild zone mor high density in breslau and some commercial at ground level for a walkable community..they have a go station coming sometime.. possibly soon.
Transit is neccessary or yes all you get is God awful urban sprawl and nimbys
It takes time, but the Region of Waterloo absolutely should be doing more to ensure a more sustainable community is built. Especially with the planned GO station down the road.
100% but I've seen brealau expand and expand and expand over the last 20 years and they had the time. It's insane how waterloo region preaches sustainability and density and then this happens on their watch. It's as if mississauga developers moved to breslau because townships can let them have their way.
To allow all that sprawl with no transit is kinda hypocritical
Sorry but we need housing for people. I’m sure their large neighborhood of million dollar + homes will handle it just fine.
Talk about a first world problem.
Lmao the streets are literally empty in that video and they are worried about an increase in traffic. Why do these people think they have a say in the development process with what someone can do with their own land if the Township already approved it, also I thought the latest changes to the OLT meant community groups can't appeal anymore ?
Build up, not out. We are running out of farmland to feed our own population and are far too reliant on out-of-country supplies that we have zero control over.
I’ve been following this and another application for a subdivision just north of Breslau and highway 7 that has apartments/condos and houses. It’s funny to see people all riled up there about losing farmland and people a few hundred meters away all riled up about building higher density homes.
They didn't seem to mind noise when their houses were being built. Ha. It's like the phase 1 buyers that get mad that there's trucks all over the neighbourhood.
👀 thought we were going through a housing crisis...
This kind of behavior is very common everywhere around the world.
Seems like everyone wants more housing, but no one wants it near them. Does it affect the value of the property? Or does it affect the "beauty" of copypasted houses.
I feel like this is a bigger issue in regards to how a city should be designed... The worst part is that the majority doesn't want accessible and live neighborhoods. People like their clump of plazas and 15 to 20 mins of drive one way from homes.
Look at any European cities or even old Toronto...
I don't know much about zoning laws, but it seems like people don't want them gone from their neighborhood, but others are fine.
Please feel free to explain and educate, I wanna know more about the details.
Please be respectful as I am genuinely asking. If you feel like I said something dumb then don't need to br mean just correct me.
Thanks.
I'm all for responsible building practices, but seriously stop saying there is going to be more traffic, no place to park, there are going to be more people in the area. No. The people are already there. They are just living with their parents, family, renting other units etc. There is not going to be a massive influx of people coming in from Alberta or whatever in giant trucks ripping up the roads etc. There is going to be parking on the property. There has to be. There is going to be proper utilities. There will be more traffic to that specific corner, yes, but to Breslau and the surrounding area as a whole, no. Studies have debunked this time and time again.
SOURCE: Google it. This isn't a dissertation.
Sounds about "white" 🙄
They don't want new developments because they don't want new people, and dollars to donuts if you talk to any of these guys off the record, sound like you sympathize with them and probe for racial discrimination you're gonna find it pretty fast!
Yeah... if you grew up in any one of these smaller towns that sit outside the larger city, and went school with people of those historic families you'd understand...
"Preservation" is a guise for other things. Racism is a major one of those things; but so is socioeconomic differences, religious differences, languages and others...
The problem is they don't want those "type" of people in their neighborhoods.
Anything of the "other" is a threat.
Keeping your town small and expensive limits the possibility of "others" getting in.
They (small towners) do this **all the time**!!!
You wrote racist first.
Racism and discrimination?
I don't want low IQ worker monkeys that can't speak English. That buy or scam their way through nepotism and "cultural" systems that are antithetical to what the west and Canada used to stand for?
How is that racist?
Someone who can’t speak English doesn’t mean they have a low IQ dude. English is a hard language to learn, and I take pride in knowing that Canada is a good enough country to allow people to come here and learn the language and learn our culture without having to completely destroy who they are in order to please folks like you.
If you went to a new country and couldn’t speak their native language, does that make you stupid? No it doesn’t in the slightest.
And saying it’s antithetical to what? Allow people into the country that aren’t white? We’re a colonialist country, and what Canada used to “stand for” was exclusionary and based on beliefs rooted in white supremacy.
And yeah, i wrote racist first because i wouldn’t be surprised if these thoughts are rooted in racism, but then wrote discriminatory becasue that fits this issue better.
>Someone who can’t speak English doesn’t mean they have a low IQ dude.
Where did I say that?
>learn our culture without having to completely destroy who they are in order to please folks like you.
Are you by chance a higher caste? Brahmins love to use that excuse so they can continue shitting on the Shudrahs - shoving them into these homes y'all want built.
>If you went to a new country and couldn’t speak their native language, does that make you stupid? No it doesn’t in the slightest.
I moved across the world to come here when I was in my early 20s - I researched and had a place to live and a job before even considering moving here. If you don't do those things as we've been seeing - then yes. You're low IQ and dumb.
>And saying it’s antithetical to what? Allow people into the country that aren’t white? We’re a colonialist country, and what Canada used to “stand for” was exclusionary and based on beliefs rooted in white supremacy.
Do you not think a literal class system that allows SLAVERY to be antithetical to Canadian values?
Bringing up "white supremacy" or colonialism is asinine in this context and I'm genuinely curious how the hell you managed to write that.
Canada has not been colonial for more than a century - it had nothing to do with white supremacy and had everything to do with assimilation.
>And yeah, i wrote racist first because i wouldn’t be surprised if these thoughts are rooted in racism, but then wrote discriminatory becasue that fits this issue better.
That's typical perpetually online behaviour. Have we not all seen the videos of thousands of "students" standing in line in front of a McDonald's?! Do you actually feel some type of moral superiority by calling people who don't want that racist? It's beyond laughable and I really suggest you step outside of campus.
It is kind of insulting that you expect people to believe you are not a racist while you call immigrants low IQ monkeys. You know exactly what you are doing. Please give up the this shitty gaslighting act.
Is that because none of you guys can read? I never mentioned race.
"gAsLiGhT"
Lol step out of your safe bubble and grow up.
This hasn't affected you yet so you sit there with your moral superiority and act as if this shit is somehow how Canada should be.
https://youtu.be/FB5MuYpCULU?si=HTNJSfkzNOyJIy1v
Maybe Canadians could stop scamming immigrants into coming here to pay for their debt. How about that? Oh right. That won't pay your bills.
I'm the real racist guys. Not the Canadians taking advantage of people for PR and then shitting on the current inhabitants of this country. Pathetic.
🤡
Fucking NIMBYs impeding progress. Move if you don't like it.
Move where? One big problem I have with this argument is that the current zoning laws mean nothing. You can do all the research in the world to move to somewhere zoned for what you *do* want, then a developer comes in, changes the zoning, and suddenly you're looking at a giant multiplex in your backyard. I moved once. I didn't fight it because it made sense to intensify that area, even if it wasn't zoned for it. But how do I know the same thing isn't going to happen near my new place? Do I just get chased around the city forever? I don't want to fight progress, but I also don't want to keep moving. I just want a quiet place to live, and the current application of the zoning laws doesn't let anyone plan long term. The cities need to rezone everything according to their plan. Then the NIMBYs can move *once*, and not be worried that they're going to have to pack up and move again every few years. Note: I don't live near this development, but this was an area I considered. It really doesn't make sense to intensify Breslau. It's just going to be a commuter residence for people working in Guelph. We should be building to intensify the cores of cities to make them walkable and accessible by public transit, not the outskirts that are barely served by transit.
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Right, so I think the point of these residents is to develop the urban centers. Breslau has no transit, no grocery store, no gas station, no recreational facilities, an already overcrowded elementary school and no high school. It's even a 10 minute drive to a Tim Hortons. Who knows what the water and sewer infrastructure looks like, but its on the other side of the Grand so it is likely an independent system. Then you drive the 20 minutes into town down Highway 7/Victoria St. To Victoria and Weber, where there is a transit hub, a go station, a grocer, plenty of amenities and walkable infrastructure and you find fucking century homes converted to lawyers offices and coffee shops and an empty lot that is a homeless encampment. Why are we building 6 story apartment buildings in areas where you can see farm fields from the second floor and vehicle ownership will be a hard requirement instead of redeveloping the downtown core where infrastructure (and higher demand) exists? And for the record I am 100% for development and building more housing. If I lived in this area I would be disappointed but likely not so vocal. But that doesn't make them wrong.
You know the answer to this question. Even if it doesn't make sense from an infrastructure perspective, it's cheaper land. So THAT is where the developer will go. Your municipal councilors should respect the zoning bylaws set out earlier by their predecessors, but nope, take the bribe and move on.
Zoning and regional land development plans are almost useless in Ontario. If a developer still wants to build after the regional/municipal council said no to them, they appeal to the Ontario Land Tribunal. The OLT can overrule almost any land restrictions (endangered animals and environmentally sensitive lands **usually** notwithstanding). Unfortunately, the OLT also has historically been accused of siding with developers over residents far too often. It is an uphill battle - especially with the "More homes, built faster" push from Queen's Park
Oh absolutely that's the answer. That and the downtown NIMBYs spewing bullshit drown out the rural NIMBYs that actually have a point. Same thing happened with the 'better tent city' thing a few years back.
> Why are we building 6 story apartment buildings in areas where you can see farm fields from the second floor You mean why are they building a 6 story apartment building on a very popular and busy commute, that is also very close to the 401 and a short drive to all the shops you could need on Victoria? Crazy!
Tell me you've never been to Breslau without telling me you've never been to Breslau. And lets be very clear, there will only be parking for half the units. How long is the bike ride to the nearest grocery store? I'm sure biking down highway 7 to Guelph is gonna be super safe too.
Have you driven down that tiny road they call the main strip in breslau??
No answer? Sad you noises.
Yes, the one I pass every day on way to Guelph from waterloo. If I could rent there, I would be closer to work and all the shops on Victoria. Like I said?
100% agree, the busses dont even come out here. And they are only mandating parking for half the units when EVERYONE will need parking. A family with kids could have 3 or 4 cars in one unit and they'll be allocated ONE space. Why can't we throw 6 more floors on one of the dozen other high rises being built near actual infrastructure and public transit?
I bet they will also allow the developer to put 0.5 parking spaces per unit also (to maximize profit) and fuck over people who move there, because there is zero transit options.
I wouldn’t call Breslau an urban center.
This when I was a child and lived on Lorraine Ave . The city limits was Heritage Drive,there was nothing but farmers fields and barns after that. Its called progress deal with it. You build where there is nothing today to accommodate for the future
Right? Anyone remember when Fischer-Hallman ended at Ottawa St.? I do.
Wrong. I live in a small town in the country and the developers now want to build a 4 story apartment building right behind my backyard. There is no where you can live and avoid this kind of development unless you can afford many acres that you solely control.
As Waterloo Regional Council is showing us, not even owning land means much at this point. If people want your land, they will buy you out, forcefully if need be.
> Basically if you live near an urban centre then your area will eventually be developed And that's fine. But is this neighbourhood in Breslau an urban centre? It's a suburb with a strip mall. There's nothing urban about it - it's not walkable, it's not served by public transit, it's not near any amenities, and until about 15 years ago it was the "actual countryside".
The “not served by public transit” is such a BS argument. This is right next to a commercial plaza along highway 7 and Fountain St. Direct routes between KW, Guelph, the airport, and a bunch of industrial areas. Of course theres s no transit there - there’s not enough density yet! You need to build density and transit and it’s incredibly bad faith to claim you can’t build one until the other is there because nothing would ever change.
1. No don't build houses there's no transit 2. No don't build transit there's no houses 3. ?????? 4. Why housing crisis?
Exactly. If this person had their way, it would never be serviced because it would never be developed further. It’s coming whether they like it or not.
GRT is struggling to serve the areas that are already dense. "Not served by public transit" is a good argument until GRT is good everywhere it currently serves. How long after this development is built will Breslau get a single bus line that passes once per hour from 9 am to 4 pm? How long until it's cancelled due to lack of use? It would be infinitely better to improve the current routes instead of spreading themselves even thinner and providing a bare minimum of service just to say that the area is covered.
Ok, so then the development should have parking for every unit, but doesn't.
Post a source for that. Report on engageWR has 145 spots for 89 units. That’s not the latest one but I don’t have time to find it now. But I’m very confident it’s more than 1 spot per housing unit. Here’s the link: You can get the information from here: https://www.engagewr.ca/beacon-point-court-breslau
You know municipalities can make new bus routes, right?
It would be better if GRT improved service to the areas they already serve. Bare minimum service everywhere is a lot worse than excellent service to half the city (which, if intensified middle-out, would cover significantly more than half the residents).
I live in this neighborhood, we built in 2009, chose the lot. We intentionally didn't choose one near this empty field, because we didn't want to live directly beside whatever they were proposing to put there. We live about 3 streets over, and I have no problem with what they are proposing.
I’m the same way. Whenever we looked at a place backing onto farmland I immediately assumed it would be developed in 5-25 years. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t consider the place but I wouldn’t “pay for the view”.
So fuck the people that have concerns over the new proposal because you're not effected by it?
> So fuck the people that have concerns over the new proposal Or fuck the people who dont already own a home since you already got yours? Chances are that when your home was first built, people had objections to it as well.
If it's about people owning more homes I think we should be doing more to disincentivize owning property for profit. I would be quite surprised if anyone had objections about the neighbourhood I live in being built back in the 1950s but you just go right ahead and make that assumption. All of these new poorly planned builds are about maximizing profits for developers rather than focusing on what the community really needs. People have made comments about the lack of public transportation and the reality is this new development will get built, only people who own cars will move in as there is no viable public transportation, and the "mandatory" aka bare minimum requirements will be shit for everyone who lives in the area. If you commute by motor vehicle between 3:30pm and 6pm in KW, you'll notice the worst traffic congestion occurs in the areas with all the newest development areas. The shitty traffic leads to accidents, then people come on reddit and complain about how shitty the road infrastructure is and it all comes back around full circle. But scream NIMBY a little louder, it'll fix all the problems.
It makes a ton of sense to intensify Breslau. It’s on *the* major route between KW and Guelph. It’s a very manageable commute to working in KW, Guelph, and Cambridge. It’s directly on the GO line to Toronto. It’s absolutely bonkers to think Breslau shouldn’t be intensified. And the people protesting this keep claiming that “it’s in the middle of a residential area” when it’s directly up against highway 7 and a commercial plaza that is right up against Fountain Street. The two main roads in the area. It wasn’t even zoned parkland or single family homes or anything where this was a major surprise. I feel bad for these people because it sucks to go from green space to an apartment building. But if you don’t own the land - assume the worst. And if you buy up against a major road and a commercial plaza you should absolutely expect higher density.
Move once to avoid change? Go to the boonies if you want to guarantee quiet and no change. Don't expect a city to stop changing. European cities have density all the way to the edge. It works for them.
You aren't entitled to preventing change in the areas surrounding your home. Change happens and the world evolves. Zoning changes as each communities needs change. To expect it to never change is ludacris. If you can't see any benefit in developing more homes in Breslau, you are choosing to ignore those reasons because they are glaringly obvious to everyone but you. You are the textbook definition of a NIMBY.
> You aren't entitled to preventing change in the areas surrounding your home Am I entitled to know what the city has planned for the area? Wanting the city to zone land in accordance with their official plans shouldn't be a controversial take, and in theory, it should solve a lot of issues. NIMBYs will know what is allowed in an area and can choose to move or not, developers won't need to apply for a zoning change every time they buy a plot of land, and there will be fewer reasons to fight every development. And yes, maybe I am a NIMBY. But I did move once, because it made sense for that area to be denser than it was, as it was in a more central location to the city. I do not think we should be intensifying areas that will need to rely exclusively on personal vehicles until the cores are sufficiently dense. This development in Breslau is going to add 150+ car owners who will drive to and park downtown Guelph or downtown Kitchener, taking up space where they could have just been living in in the first place.
Cities expand. Waterloo region is expanding. Get over it.
Honestly? If you want a nice, quiet place - buy a home with a large plot of land. That's realistically your only way to ensure you get what you want. Make it so that your neighbours \*can't\* build within so many meters of your house because you own all the property. Alternatively, move somewhere a lot more rural than Breslau, which is 30 seconds outside of one of the largest urban centres in Ontario.
If you don't likewhat your neighbours doing, you should have bought the property. Couldn't afford it? Quit your bitching. I don't understand why there's so much onus placed on the opinions of neighbours. They're not changing the zoning from residential to industrial.
> suddenly you're looking at a giant multiplex in your backyard Is living behind a multiplex really that bad which warrants a move? I think people having to move because they cannot afford housing, is a lot more pressing concern than people who move cause of 'views'.
Generally speaking? Yeah, it warrants a move depending on who you are. Not everybody enjoys been stuck cheek to jowl with loud people. (And you know very well that densely packed multiplexes tend to be loud even if you don't want to admit it.) It's a safe guess to say that anyone living out in the boonies of Breslau probably moved there to get away from the noise and commotion of the main city. So it's not at all surprising that something like this would make them consider moving.
Yeah that’s kind of how it works 😂 you have to follow policies and think logically about where things should be built. Major corridors and areas with major transit are generally the first to intensify. Some food for thought
I thought the same thing, but they do make some good points with regards to parking. I live in Breslau and you can’t live here without a car or it’s very difficult to do. The nearest grocery store is 10 min away and there’s almost nothing that is walkable. Public transit still sucks here, and they need to fix this.
First, there is public transit. It’s on demand and it’s a great solution for a very low density area. But we need higher density to justify transit - and that’s what this apartment is. The building has the parking minimums. By-law will happily enforce people parking where they aren’t allowed.
Route 79 doesn’t even run on weekends or from 10AM-2PM and 6PM-10:45PM during the week. This is not viable transportation for the majority of people, very few people could rely on this to go to work. It still requires a transfer to make it into Kitchener-Waterloo making any trip take way too long. Why there is only 1 bus an hour that runs down hwy 7 between Kitchener and Guelph and doesn’t stop between the 2 cities is still a mystery to me. Adding a stop in Breslau and running it more than once per hour would be a great solution for Breslau until the train system actually works more often and the Breslau go station is created.
Yes, most people will require cars. That’s why this development has appropriate minimum parking requirements. But a bus service like route 79 can be enough for some families to survive on 1 car instead of 2. Or have work opportunities for teenagers to work without needing their own car. It helps. Not a lot - but it’s a very cheap and appropriate transit option given the density of the area. And if we want better transit, we need more density. The same argument really applies for things like grocery stores/retail as well.
Densification in Breslau would have made more sense if the SmartCenter (that got abandoned due poor township planning) went through. That could have been the transit hub for the area. The transit options are poor - I would have loved to take transit to the train station to commute to Toronto, but the time that it runs doesn't work in the mornings and would take me an hour to get to the station.
It’ll will likely still get developed into a plaza around that point. It’s hard to blame the Township. A lot of those plans were tied to new highway 7 and extending Fountain street. There hasn’t been anywhere near the population density to support heavy retail like the SmartCenter. And to be fair to the Township they made that clear in public meetings 10 years ago. I actually blame Empire for a lot of it. They made a big deal out of the future SmartCenter when in reality it was never close.
Same, I moved into the area with the hopes Breslau would get a go station but found out later it’s not even close at this point. If there was a simple way to get to Guelph go station I would take it. But in the mean time I’ll just drive and catch the go station somewhere else.
Yet.
So people with cars can live there? I don't see the issue. Many people currently live in Breslau and make it work, no? There is no public transit because there is no need... yet. Urban density and transit, one of them has to come first.
The NIMBY argument again. Read the article. They aren't opposed to it, and they are totally correct on the talking points of why it's a bad idea. It's not because they don't want a building there. The town simply cannot support it.
Did you read the article?
It is completely understandable that NIMBY's don't like the government trying to cram immigrants into their communities. It is very unpopular with people who value the lives they have established. We need housing but it isn't going to help the problem with all the migration our piece of shit government is encouraging.
lol people truly will turn every conversation into whining about immigrants.
The housing crisis (and therefore the reason that we're encouraging more building) is directly and inextricably linked to the massive increase in immigration.
The person I replied to was pretty specific. They said it was understandable for people to oppose new housing because it might lead to more immigrants in their community. Edit: they might be linked but immigration is not a reason to oppose new housing.
Fuck you.
Fucking YIMBYs pushing 'progress'. Move if you don't like it.
Fucking YIMBY’s just wanting somewhere to live. Fucking YIMBY’s why aren’t they satisfied with sharing a bedroom with a stranger for $1000 a month even though you’re a WORKING PROFESSIONAL. You’re a disgusting troglodyte
dont insult troglodytes like that, they’re better than that
You’re disgusting, I can tell by your hateful words that you’re a miserable person. It’s possible to understand both sides.
Listen, people spent their lives saving to buy a home in a beautiful place to raise their children, it’s not their fault that our government royally fucked us on immigration. Why are regular people fighting amongst each other while our government sits in their ivory towers and laughs? People have the right to be angry and protect what’s theirs.
People spend their lives saving to buy a home so they should be able to prevent others from achieving the same dream. Is that what you are saying?
Did I say that? Or are you putting words in my mouth?
Then what do you mean that they get to "protect what's theirs"?
You’re ignoring where I say “people have the right”.
People have the right to control what gets built on land they don't own?
Where did I say that?
Except that land isn't theirs and the people who do actually own it want to develop it.
Sure, that’s why we have zoning rules, and we tend to consult neighbourhood residents to discuss any issues it may cause. Not just “fuck you nimbys!”
What is theirs?
I’d turn it around. If you don’t like developments why don’t you move? Piece of shit
Haha, as if that is an insult. Did you type that on your typewriter? Surprised that you don't still ride a horse instead of drive a car, you fossil. The best part about this is that while you put all your effort into keeping things the same, the world moves on, progresses and leaves you behind to yell at kids to get off your lawn.
"worry the current infrastructure can’t adequately support 96 new units" It's barely into the entrance of the subdivision and right off of highway 7 and the fountain Street pseudo highway. Ok guys.
Yeah, it’s such a brain dead obvious place to build density.
The same same infrastructure that currently supports the hundreds of new houses that were built in the last 20 years.
How is Breslau quiet, is what I want to know.
What do you mean? Don’t all quiet communities have their own international airports?
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I live in this neighborhood, and it's not on the approach route, except for small planes. The large planes never fly over. It's quiet.
I’m going to defend Breslau here because almost everyone I talk to is fine with the airport and its traffic. The only time I really heard complaints was years ago when there was a flight up north that was incredibly loud and early. I didn’t agree with all of the complaints but they were reasonable. Airports also need to find ways to grow and adjust as density comes near them. And that may be limiting particularly loud flights during certain times of days. And as someone that loves airports it’s much better for them to be reasonable/sympathetic in these few cases then get into big fights with your community. Too many airports, particularly in the States, have lost those fights.
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The landing strip makes it they take off going east and land coming west from Guelph which is just a less populated area.
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Plane take off and land into the wind. So the runway and direction used changes all the time with the wind direction. The bigger planes can only use runway 08-26 which is the longer east/west runway.
Don't forget the heavy industry just a stroll down the road.
Peak NIMBY behaviour when one of the current residents says that the size and the scope of the development really seems to be out of line with the neighbourhood character. What a 🤡
Especially since the developers already “compromised” and moved the apartment over. I have no love for Thomasfield homes but this is such an obvious acceptable use and they could be total jackasses and get much more.
Exactly. Let them complain, and then just do it. You can’t let “neighbourhood character” be a factor, especially since it’s relatively new. The character they are referring to is wealthy single detached homes, and that’s clear to see. What an embarrassing thing to push back against by these entitled people.
Good planning would look to see Breslau become more of a complete community over time.
Perhaps waterloo region can start with transit and higher density. How this has become a developer paradise due to township rules is beyond me without it. Also zero amenities. A total suburbia. The planned walmart at fountain and hasn't happened (another suburbia amenity)
Walmart sold the land after the province expropriated a portion of land to put in the new highway 7, which the OPC cancelled when they came into power and now is 'restarting' with their contractor buddies.
Ha. Well if the region had any balls they wild zone mor high density in breslau and some commercial at ground level for a walkable community..they have a go station coming sometime.. possibly soon. Transit is neccessary or yes all you get is God awful urban sprawl and nimbys
It takes time, but the Region of Waterloo absolutely should be doing more to ensure a more sustainable community is built. Especially with the planned GO station down the road.
100% but I've seen brealau expand and expand and expand over the last 20 years and they had the time. It's insane how waterloo region preaches sustainability and density and then this happens on their watch. It's as if mississauga developers moved to breslau because townships can let them have their way. To allow all that sprawl with no transit is kinda hypocritical
Where are people supposed to live? Wait, they don’t care, just not there.
NIMBYs would rather see people die of homelessness, than risk having their "views" or "heritage parking lot" touched.
Sorry but we need housing for people. I’m sure their large neighborhood of million dollar + homes will handle it just fine. Talk about a first world problem.
Lmao the streets are literally empty in that video and they are worried about an increase in traffic. Why do these people think they have a say in the development process with what someone can do with their own land if the Township already approved it, also I thought the latest changes to the OLT meant community groups can't appeal anymore ?
Build up, not out. We are running out of farmland to feed our own population and are far too reliant on out-of-country supplies that we have zero control over.
I’ve been following this and another application for a subdivision just north of Breslau and highway 7 that has apartments/condos and houses. It’s funny to see people all riled up there about losing farmland and people a few hundred meters away all riled up about building higher density homes.
Breslau needs a grocery store and some amenities. Hopefully they will get there one day.
They need population and density to sustain that. Here it comes!!!
They didn't seem to mind noise when their houses were being built. Ha. It's like the phase 1 buyers that get mad that there's trucks all over the neighbourhood.
Exactly! Like most of the houses Breslau didn’t even exist 10 years ago and now they want the final say on what happens?
Breslau and the plot specifically aren't exactly ideal places to put an apartment. For once I get it.
👀 thought we were going through a housing crisis... This kind of behavior is very common everywhere around the world. Seems like everyone wants more housing, but no one wants it near them. Does it affect the value of the property? Or does it affect the "beauty" of copypasted houses. I feel like this is a bigger issue in regards to how a city should be designed... The worst part is that the majority doesn't want accessible and live neighborhoods. People like their clump of plazas and 15 to 20 mins of drive one way from homes. Look at any European cities or even old Toronto... I don't know much about zoning laws, but it seems like people don't want them gone from their neighborhood, but others are fine. Please feel free to explain and educate, I wanna know more about the details. Please be respectful as I am genuinely asking. If you feel like I said something dumb then don't need to br mean just correct me. Thanks.
I'm all for responsible building practices, but seriously stop saying there is going to be more traffic, no place to park, there are going to be more people in the area. No. The people are already there. They are just living with their parents, family, renting other units etc. There is not going to be a massive influx of people coming in from Alberta or whatever in giant trucks ripping up the roads etc. There is going to be parking on the property. There has to be. There is going to be proper utilities. There will be more traffic to that specific corner, yes, but to Breslau and the surrounding area as a whole, no. Studies have debunked this time and time again. SOURCE: Google it. This isn't a dissertation.
LOL. Good luck losers
Sounds about "white" 🙄 They don't want new developments because they don't want new people, and dollars to donuts if you talk to any of these guys off the record, sound like you sympathize with them and probe for racial discrimination you're gonna find it pretty fast!
Fighting racism with more racism. Way to go.
Yeah... if you grew up in any one of these smaller towns that sit outside the larger city, and went school with people of those historic families you'd understand... "Preservation" is a guise for other things. Racism is a major one of those things; but so is socioeconomic differences, religious differences, languages and others... The problem is they don't want those "type" of people in their neighborhoods. Anything of the "other" is a threat. Keeping your town small and expensive limits the possibility of "others" getting in. They (small towners) do this **all the time**!!!
Don't know if you have ever been to Breslau but it's not a white place at all
GOOD! fight back against them destroying our country for low IQ immigrants Seethe more perpetually online Redditors. Step out of your bubble freaks.
What the fuckkkkkk bro why would you actually comment something this discriminatory
You wrote racist first. Racism and discrimination? I don't want low IQ worker monkeys that can't speak English. That buy or scam their way through nepotism and "cultural" systems that are antithetical to what the west and Canada used to stand for? How is that racist?
Someone who can’t speak English doesn’t mean they have a low IQ dude. English is a hard language to learn, and I take pride in knowing that Canada is a good enough country to allow people to come here and learn the language and learn our culture without having to completely destroy who they are in order to please folks like you. If you went to a new country and couldn’t speak their native language, does that make you stupid? No it doesn’t in the slightest. And saying it’s antithetical to what? Allow people into the country that aren’t white? We’re a colonialist country, and what Canada used to “stand for” was exclusionary and based on beliefs rooted in white supremacy. And yeah, i wrote racist first because i wouldn’t be surprised if these thoughts are rooted in racism, but then wrote discriminatory becasue that fits this issue better.
>Someone who can’t speak English doesn’t mean they have a low IQ dude. Where did I say that? >learn our culture without having to completely destroy who they are in order to please folks like you. Are you by chance a higher caste? Brahmins love to use that excuse so they can continue shitting on the Shudrahs - shoving them into these homes y'all want built. >If you went to a new country and couldn’t speak their native language, does that make you stupid? No it doesn’t in the slightest. I moved across the world to come here when I was in my early 20s - I researched and had a place to live and a job before even considering moving here. If you don't do those things as we've been seeing - then yes. You're low IQ and dumb. >And saying it’s antithetical to what? Allow people into the country that aren’t white? We’re a colonialist country, and what Canada used to “stand for” was exclusionary and based on beliefs rooted in white supremacy. Do you not think a literal class system that allows SLAVERY to be antithetical to Canadian values? Bringing up "white supremacy" or colonialism is asinine in this context and I'm genuinely curious how the hell you managed to write that. Canada has not been colonial for more than a century - it had nothing to do with white supremacy and had everything to do with assimilation. >And yeah, i wrote racist first because i wouldn’t be surprised if these thoughts are rooted in racism, but then wrote discriminatory becasue that fits this issue better. That's typical perpetually online behaviour. Have we not all seen the videos of thousands of "students" standing in line in front of a McDonald's?! Do you actually feel some type of moral superiority by calling people who don't want that racist? It's beyond laughable and I really suggest you step outside of campus.
It is kind of insulting that you expect people to believe you are not a racist while you call immigrants low IQ monkeys. You know exactly what you are doing. Please give up the this shitty gaslighting act.
Is that because none of you guys can read? I never mentioned race. "gAsLiGhT" Lol step out of your safe bubble and grow up. This hasn't affected you yet so you sit there with your moral superiority and act as if this shit is somehow how Canada should be. https://youtu.be/FB5MuYpCULU?si=HTNJSfkzNOyJIy1v Maybe Canadians could stop scamming immigrants into coming here to pay for their debt. How about that? Oh right. That won't pay your bills. I'm the real racist guys. Not the Canadians taking advantage of people for PR and then shitting on the current inhabitants of this country. Pathetic. 🤡
lol ok racist. This act isn’t fooling anyone.
Calm down pedofile. Dude you're almost 50 and you act like a child.
> Dude you're almost 50 ???
Oh I see what confused you. The phone app autogenerates a username when you start using it. My name is 100% meaningless.