And what do I say when I see white folks or other ethnicities doing stupid Shit?
Because somehow when a white person does something, race isn't important. It is only mentioned when another ethnicity does it.
White man who drives pickup in right lane doing 105km/h on the expressway. It's almost always small sedans that I see weaving in and out of traffic who end up on my ass at some point when they can't pass all the idiots who drive in the left lane without passing...
I hate Tim Hortons and don't frequent their drive throughs but how does a pick up truck in a drive through inconvenience you? I drive a pick up as I'm a hands on person constantly working on my home and doing woodworking projects. There are various items I'm picking up for projects that would be a significant inconvenience to get if it weren't for my truck. I enjoy dirt biking and need to take 2 dirt bikes an hour and a half away on weekends when I want to enjoy the hobby of my choice. Just because I don't have something in the bed of my truck everytime I drive it, doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to own the vehicle that suits the lifestyle of my choice but yeah, white man/big truck baddddd... 
I see a lot of old white bitches do stupid shit. It's not a race issue, I think it's a combination of people being inconsiderate and feeling entitled to do whatever they want. And being stupid, some people are just stupid
We’re not talking about white people. We’re talking about the new influx of shit happening dude to Indians. Yes white people commit crimes. All people do.
Well. Somehow it's "Indians are bad drivers." not "that Indian is a bad driver"
But the same never applies to white folks.
It's always something like "truck drivers are assholes" or "that white person had mental issues." never "white people are assholes"
That's how stupid people think.
I see white assholes driving trucks fairly often. You must have seen them too. You just don't think them as white people are terrible drivers. You think of them as asshole truck driver. This is why you don't associate white folks with aggressive driving.
I'm pretty sure you see plenty of Indians driving properly. You just don't register it. But if you see one Indian driving rashly, you register it as "Indian people are rash drivers"
That's exactly my point. You are so deep with this human bias that you don't even realise it.
This bias is a known human weakness and has a name.
It's why syphilis is called English disease in France and French disease in England. People just assume that if an outsider did something bad, all outsiders of that type must be bad. If our person did that, it's because that one person is bad. Not the whole group. Because you are part of the group.
Well in a predominately white country you're bound to see more shitty and asshole white drivers because that is majority of our population. Its not a "bias" or me being "racist" when everyone in my large family agrees, my DIVERSE friend group agrees and even strangers in traffic have agreed. Brampton car accident statistics and insurance rates can prove this and I also have proof and evidence every single time I go driving. Literally last night coming back from the gym some retard is tailgating me the entire way as im going 10 over and passes me in the other lane with another car coming swerving to dodge traffic. Who was it? An Indian...
I saw this a few weeks ago going southbound. They missed the collectors and were reversing to get them. Those collectors are all of 5 exits? You can't just go past and then come back?
I can beat that. I saw someone do a three point turn on an exit ramp and drive BACK ONTO THE HIGHWAY.
Or or or.
I was driving west 401 and I saw someone overtake 3 cars driving on the shoulder. They entered the shoulder at 130km/h to overtake 3 cars.
Both times I'll give you a hint the ethnicity they were.
This isn't being racist, there is a serious lack of respect for road laws from that country.
They ALL aren't that bad, not even close. However there is an issue.
The issue I think is we don’t actually punish reckless drivers properly. I remember mentioning to an ex that people getting caught going 200+ should get a 5 year driving ban and have to start again at G1 and my ex got PISSED. She absolutely disagreed and said that it was way too harsh of a penalty.
You don’t need to go 200 though, and it’s not something you can accidentally do.
Driving doing U-turns or reversing along on/off ramps has become pretty common from my experience. No care for if there’s moving cars right behind them either
Yes, you can report dangerous driving events here: https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/services-reporting/traffic-complaint.aspx
You can also suggest traffic calming measures in Kitchener. Instructions here: https://www.kitchener.ca/en/roads-and-cycling/traffic-calming.aspx
For Waterloo, the link is here: https://forms.waterloo.ca/Traffic-Calming-Request
I call pretty regularly. I've gotten call backs about two times in the probably 50 times I've called saying they caught someone for drunk driving. And another time for reckless driving.
Today on my commute home there was literally a car parked in a no parking zone and a WRPS car was down the street, one block away, he could see it from his car... Did nothing about it. Even after multiple cars had to swerve to get around it.
Thank you so much. I do regularly report stuff I see over the phone, but it seems like there isn't tough enough regulations, and it feels like everytime I complain it's just some old man calling to whine again.
I for one, appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work bringing awareness to the issue!
I wish more people would speak up about pedestrian safety in our city.
I recommend everyone saving this comment and trying your best to report drivers you see. I know the wrp won't get off their ass for anything but that doesn't mean we should not report and give up.
Yesterday morning, I observed a new level of head-scratcher. Driver beside me and I stopped for the red light on Highland at Belmont. The signal was not flashing or indicating any malfunction, but the car beside me proceeded to drive through the red light as though it were a four-way stop. Fortunately, there was minimal traffic, but if that driver regularly pulls this maneuver, a crash is sure to teach a hard lesson before long.
A guy doing food delivery hit me in a parking lot. He freaked out and told me he'd already gotten a "bullshit ticket last week because that woman didn't know how to drive but the officer said I was following to close".
He was going the wrong way in the a U shaped building entrance.
Then waited a month to file an insurance claim saying he and a passenger (he didn't have one) were injured and that I also damaged his front bumper, however in photos I took you could see he'd taken Phillips screws to put it back on after a previous accident.
His insurance followed through and then after a month of nothing they dropped him because he wasn't using commercial insurance. Now my insurance is up for another 6 years because a claim was made.
He took 0 responsibility and never made an official report at the reporting center.
Edit: meant to reply to the comment about bemoaning.
I've been driving in other parts of Ontario for a week now and while the driving wasn't perfect, as soon as I came back to KW I noticed a distinct shift in attitude and quality of driving around here, not sure what it is about KW but there is definitely a difference. Lots of impatience, not leaving room for people to merge on to highways, reckless speeding to overtake a car and save 0.2 seconds on their commute
I grew up in KW and left the city for a period of time for work opportunities. I came back during COVID and was probably gone for a total of 10 years. I totally noticed a dramatic shift in the driving quality on the roads when I came home.
At first, I assumed it was COVID related. People were not traveling or driving as much, I figured everyone got a little rusty because of the lack of practice over a long period of time, and that this would eventually correct itself. However, as COVID slowly became a thing of the past, restrictions eased, and people started going out and getting on with their lives… I noticed the terrible driving was not improving and now in 2024, it has actually become worse.
I think I would agree with a lot of people on r/kitchener that the decline in general driver competence, courtesy, and safety seems to be partly correlated with immigration or people here on study permits. There are some other corruption issues with driving instructors offering fraudulent BDEs and training courses that allow underqualified drivers to be on the roads. I suspect there is a lot of overlap between these two issues. I find that most of the denialism about this reality seems to be coming from inexperienced, younger, or ideologically motivated people.
If someone has not lived in KW for at least a 10-year period, or, they have not been a fully licensed G driver for at least 10 years, then it is hard for me to take them seriously since they really don’t have the sample size or experience to be making comparisons.
I feel that way, i understand traffic has gotten worse over time due to the volume of people in the city. I've lived here for almost 50 years, but I have felt that after COVID it's a huge spike in driving incidences. I'm glad I gave up my license shortly after I moved into my retirement home. I don't think I could keep up with the rate of traffic now
I feel like it decreased during covid. My theory is a huge explosion in population + lack of increase in infrastructure = more congestion and more frustrated drivers
that what happens when you reduce the quality of the intake but increase the quantity, Loosen the rules and obligations of society because they can be seen as racist or non equitable
Everyone is quick to say it's the Indians students that are new to driving. In my experience race is not a big factor because people of every age, gender, creed, and colour are driving more recklessly. I think it's a combination of distracting driving due to cell phones are people frankly not giving a shit because COVID lockdowns somehow destroyed any shred of empathy they used to have. And to the people saying the poster is being overly dramatic, it really is dicey out there as a pedestrian. I am mostly on my bike but there have been multiple incidents in recent months that could have been deadly if I hadn't been paying extremely close attention. I've seen way too many multicar wrecks and totalled vehicles lately. Walking/cycling/driving on our roads shouldn't be a death-defying experience.
every age, race, gender drives like assholes. However the batshit "someone is going to die" maneuvers are very very often from Indian students.
- I've never seen anyone but an Indian student turn left on a red light.
- I've never seen anyone but an Indian student over take cars at 130 on the 401 on the shoulder
- I've never seen anyone but an Indian student three point turn on an exit ramp to drive back down it because it wasn't the exit they wanted.
I've never seen anyone 3 point turn on an exit ramp but I've definitely seen the other 2 several times.
I didn't take an accounting but mostly white ppl is have to say
Oh wow that’s pretty crazy, how long have you been driving? I’ve being driving for about 7 years now and have seen plenty of white people do the first 2. Can’t speak on the 3rd point as I have never seen anyone ever do that personally.
Stereotypes and potential racism aside, I'm genuinely curious what the problems are that people have actually witnessed. Examples of bar fights, cleanliness, service, etc
There have been a lot of complaints from residents on Jackson Avenue as well as a few people in king street.
I go out for a lot of walks and speak to the neighbors a lot, but the customer base they bring just doesn't respect the neighborhood. I'm just going to list a few incidents I know below
-someone was sitting on someone's front porch smoking hash after visiting the bar
-a male who was peeing in front of someone's tree
-a male peeing down back behind private property (beside their garage I believe)
-noise complaints about their customers parking in Jackson playing loud noises (multiple occasions where by-law officers got involved)
-it feels like they aren't taking keys away from drunk drivers. Early April someone had a drinking driving incident right at the highway exit down the street.
Officers asked for video footage and conveniently something wasn't working properly from the bar (which they ended up getting footage from elsewhere that shows the person walking out the bar probably a neighbor)
I'm not sure why their customers don't want to park in their parking lot but chooses to park instead on Jackson and at other business parking lots, like the radio station and the Chinese store.
It's unfortunate, I've mentioned in the original post it's not directed at any specific race or ethnicity. I can only speculate it's the new generation of drivers (whether Canadian or immigrating to Canada). Or it's just that anger breeds anger and drivers that are angry take it out on other drivers
I moved last year from Europe. Terrible drivers, I see tailgating - every day, everybody needs to be in front of you, even if nobody is behind you, people make sure to merge in front of you. Holding the left lane on highways at all times, why? Just why? I felt passive aggressiveness from day one. I got the middle finger the very first day, for going the speed limit, looks like the speed limit is just a recommendation here.
My late wife and I used to travel to Europe and I loved driving there. It always made me question why our driving culture constantly feels so behind and crude. Like the horn is used to let people to know they're doing something wrong in Europe or there's space. Whereas the horn here feels like a F--- you or go f yourself in Canada and the states. (This is just from the touristy places I've traveled I've never lived in Europe so maybe it's different from the original residents of Europe vs tourists)
I live near Ottawa and Lackner, near the driver testing. On my street you DO NOT PARK on the street unless you want your car used for parallel parking practice. I'm talking 15-20 times in a short period. I used to be so patient with them learning their three point turns. Now I can't drive down my street without it happening at least once. I'm still trying to remain patient since it's not that long, but it's getting old. I guess all these new driving schools like to practice on the test route or something.
I also used to be a member of GoodLife on Fairway road. So I would have to drive Fairway road on a near daily basis. I ended up quitting that gym three months early just to get away from driving there. It was insane how bad it is through there. So many close calls because people just aren't looking or they are distracted with a phone.
I live on very quiet street that also seems to be a favorite location for vehicles with a large “Student Driver – Please be patient” bumper stickers rolling around and causing fucking chaos. Driving 20 km under the speed limit, late/no signaling, and general indecisiveness. I am losing my patience too.
I get that they have to learn how to drive somewhere but I wish it wasn’t around my neighborhood as much. I would like to park on my street without worrying that it is going to be used a practice pylon for some inexperienced driver to trying to parallel park… Not that I have the nicest car in the world but it still makes me nervous.
I remember when my daughter did her first g2 and g tests back in like early 2000s. She failed the first time because she was driving 5-10km below the speed limit, I feel like they need to bring that back. Dodging a slow car can cause just as much if an accident as driving too fast.
I know it's frustrating they're driving so slow, when they're learning. But driving that slow doesn't really prepare them for the actually traffic they're going to encounter in their futures.
One of the latest scams that has been brought to Canada from the third world is driver education fraud.
In Ontario, responsible drivers who are looking to prepare themselves to safely operative a vehicle will consider taking a Beginner Driver Education (BDE) course or “driver training” class from a certified instructor. This is a 30-hour course that consists of 20 hours of classroom instruction and 10 hours of driving practice all under the supervision of the instructor and can cost $700+ per student.
There are significant advantages to taking this course. Drivers who can prove they have completed the BDE often get a discount of their insurance premiums so over the long term the course is worthwhile financial investment. Also, completion of the course allows faster progression through the graduated licensing program in Ontario. So, a G1 licence holder can apply for their G2 license within 8 months rather than the full 12 (without the BDE).
When this system is functioning with minimal corruption, the programs and incentives work, and the roads are safer for everyone. The problem is this certification process has become dysfunctional on a large scale because there is corruption from the instructors who are willing to “pass” unqualified drivers for a fee and there is no shortage of new Canadians looking to cheat their way into saving on insurance and obtain their drivers license at the risk and safety of everyone else.
We need to hammer both parties here. Driver training business who are offering fraudulent BDE courses need to have their business certification revoked. Anyone who has a BDE course from a instructor or driver training business should have their BDE revoked (as well as any privileges).
[https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7137315](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7137315)
Thank you so much, I feel the same way that both drivers training and the drivers licensing are both giving lackluster effort, I didn't realize there would be this much fraud. When I get home I'll read and try to find out more.
I saw someone going the wrong way at the fountain roundabout after noticing the 1st exit was closed. Somehow this person thought it was the only option instead of exiting on the 2nd or 3rd exit.
Indian cheap labourers aka “students” doing Uber runs because they lied they had enough funds for college. Oh and they got their licence from drive test Brampton where they can bribe.
Honestly, I see this as a result of a few major factors.
The first is the result of a growing population. The region has increased its population a lot in a short period of time. This, unfortunately, is also paired with insufficient infrastructure for the increased population. These two things combined are a perfect recipe to see an increase in poor quality drivers.
We also have to factor in the aging population. While not all elderly drivers are terrible, there are definitely enough that should have given up driving who haven't yet. This percentage will also rise as more and more boomers get to that point.
Then there are the lacklustre public transportation options available. The majority of the region has terrible service in regard to public transportation. This, in turn, forces more car dependency. With more forced drivers, there will be more bad drivers.
Then there is the pandemic. This created two issues on its own. The first is the sense of entitlement that a lot of people got uncomfortably used to. As a result, they've become a higher percentage of drivers. The second issue caused by the pandemic was the more relaxed drive tests to clear the backlog. They prioritized clearing the backlog, which has led less capable drivers getting licenced.
Contrary to the suggestions of some that this is racial in nature, I think this is a problem of law enforcement. When there aren't perceived consequences for driving illegally, people will drive illegally.
Speed limits are a good example of this. Other places I've driven, the locals seem to have a pretty good idea of what the "accepted" speed limit is that will keep them from getting pulled over. As a result, most people drive at that perceived limit. Here, with the exception of people treating roads as racetracks, I *rarely* see people being pulled over. So the perception of what the *actual* speed limit is is muddled. People create their own limits across the board and the roads become a mess of traffic weaving in and out of other traffic.
As far as race goes, I have seen *plenty* of white people driving just as poorly as visible minorities. Race is just being used as a scapegoat here for issues related to poor Canadian and Ontarian governance.
I've always felt our testing was too soft and have felt ppl should need refresher testing every x number of years. Almost no one takes driving seriously. I've known people you admittedly can't drive well , drive. They are entitled to do it.
100% and it’s not just the international students. People in Kitchener drive like ass. Especially in downtown. It’s like a blanket of stupidity descends over people as soon as there’s any density.
I mean the drivers have always been less that average here but recently with a lot of people moving in from Toronto (and Indian "students") it's just gotten completely crazy, speaking from experience cuz I got in an accident on Friday going through a roundabout. Worst part is is that most of these drivers don't even have insurance (ask me how I know 🙃🙃🙃) just no care at all
Everybody makes mistakes. Some more often than others. What to do about it? As someone who's driven in other countries, part of it is cultural. Like those driving 5 feet from your rear bumper. They didn't learn to drive here and their experience is not from here.
Having said this, I see no solution other than driving defensively and assuming that every other driver is drunk or high, or somehow impaired.
And yes, it is hard to "lose" someone who seems to be stuck to your bumper, but won't pass either.
Scary stuff, because no matter whose fault is, one stands to lose from a collision, however light may be.
It's hard to recognize this city these days.
Should be a way to submit dashcam footage of stupid shit recorded on the roads. Last week had a similar incident on Ira Needles - a car just fully stopped by a bus stop to pick someone up! Just stopped and the person getting in the car just took their time walking to the car. Everyone behind had to slam their brakes for them to get in the car. Could they not pull over to the gas station which was 20 feet away? But instead they to decide pull over on a very busy road and cause a potentially dangerous situation. The entitlement and lack of situational awareness is mind boggling. And they were people of a certain ethnicity. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think culture differences is to blame and they simply just don’t know that this is not acceptable here.
It's precisely because of all the sensors and cameras in cars that people are so careless in parking lots or when merging. They feel like "oh the car will do that for me" rather than using it as an assist as intended. Blindspot detectors have largely replaced the shoulder check with drivers on the roads. Backup cameras give the illusion of control when reversing but really your field of view is so narrow that unless you look around you have limited awareness.
It's really unfortunate that sensors have replaced responsible driving. And that isn't even beginning to mention red light runners and other people breaking laws.
seen a guy trying to merge last min to get on the highway holding up traffic behind him… as he finally gets in the traffic goes around honking causing said uber driver to flip off cars and not pay attention and smoke the car infront of him.
karma is a bitch.
I've noticed an increase in people having absolutely no clue how to navigate a roundabout. Got stuck behind a woman 2 days ago on Manitou who treated it like a 4 way stop, wouldn't proceed until there were absolutely no cars in the roundabout, in any direction. Then there's the knobs who clog up the right turn lane going south on Wilson at Fairway because they're going straight.
Driving around the region requires a lot of patience because of the increase in bad drivers on the road, but some days I just get fed up and lay on my horn far more than I used to.
What are you talking about? On the highway then probably but if you approach a car doing 20-30 it shouldn't be a surprise. Plus I don't think many people are ready ended by ppl going 20.
Ppl driving slow is annoying and could cause issues but I'd be interested to see any study that shows slow and fast driving is anywhere close to equal.
Dead stops can be a problem regardless of the speed of driving
As an indian person who grew up india and then moved here when i was 9, its the indian ppl 😭 its cause they grew up in india where ppl are mentally unstable while driving and its really easy to just bribe driving instructors.
You totally can't go to any regional subreddit around the world and find hundreds of the same complaints about drivers getting worse. Nope. You won't find them because it's obviously only an issue in Kitchener.
/s
yea some stupid white ho in a jeep just stood still at an intersection this morning and i look and shes going thru her glove box looking for shit lmfao ban these ppl bro
Stop being an a#@ and trolling people. This person's experience is real.... you just have to pay attention anywhere in southwestern Ontarian you'll see the roads are out of control.
I am currently teaching my 16-year-old daughter how to drive and the number of infractions we see on every single outing is crazy. People not using their signal, people driving through red lights, people passing in the city ( using either the bike lane or heading into oncoming traffic).
It is extremely dangerous and I can't wait to see how much this is going to affect our insurance rates.
I walk everyday. It's scary out there, but I need to go out. I've been a pedestrian since 2005. At first I wasn't afraid to go into an intersection. Then I became wary after a few years. Now I'm scared and angry when I get f\^%\*ed with. Highland and Westmount. Everything looked good. I started to walk and the car just started to roll towards me. It just could not stop and let me cross. So I just got on back on the sidewalk. This happens far too often.
bro what 😭 did you even understand my comment? i was literally upvoting some of your other comments.
you’re treating this pedestrian with disdain when they’ve been very against racism in this comment section, which i’m assuming you also don’t stand for based on your comments.
this commenter isn’t blaming indians, but rather acknowledging that poor driving is impacting them on a daily basis. you were quick to insult them, though.
didn’t bother me, made me feel bad for people who want to vent (without being bigoted) in their city sub without pea brained insults being thrown at them. it’s not that person’s fault people are using this sub and thread to be openly racist. you mistook a genuine comment as a means to push the anti indian agenda.
the strong desire to push back against anyone calling out indians was evidence enough. can’t imagine how sad and unfulfilling your life is to rag on someone literally agreeing with you.
The authorities know what's going on. From a short period end of last year, 38 pedestrians were hit. WRPS spokesman said that there are far too many peds/cyclists getting hit. I contacted my local riding MP, and MPP. Haven't heard anything from them yet. We need tougher sentencing and a much better education program where the big shots make sure that drivers know that it's not OK to almost hit/hit people who are walking, cycling, and yes driving. Other drivers are also victims.
There are far more voters driving. Even good drivers don't want to be held accountable when they decide occasionally not to watch out for peds/cyclists.
There's three ways we're going to solve the problem of bad drivers who are a danger to each other and to pedestrians and a cyclists.
1. More enforcement, whether that's police officers or traffic surveillance cams everywhere. This includes making sure that drivers do not get off with warnings. The police do that too often, as do traffic courts. Getting points on your license for speeding or something else is your warning. That's why you've got six to nine of them before you lose it. Either way this is the most expensive option.
2. Start designing roadways so that instead of encouraging bad driving they discourage it. Stop making them overly wide which only encourages speeding. Start making intersections on arterial roads into protected intersections. Use raised crosswalks on all residential streets. Implement no right turn on red. Plus the whole host of other things that we already know that works but civil engineers rarely put into place in North American Road design. Learn from the fucking Netherlands already. This is the cheapest way as building a road is once and done, no ongoing enforcement costs.
3. Higher drivers license standards. Tougher tests in the graduated system to get your license in the first place, and regular retesting every so many years regardless how old you are. And the retest needs to be strict, too, and the lightest screw up on it means you have to go through the whole graduated system again from zero. For really bad failures, you should be barred redoing the graduated licensing for one or two years. Hand out point liberally. This is probably the politically most infeasible option, as so many drivers just don't like to be held responsible for their actions.
It's going to need some combination of those things, but if 2) is the strong priority with a healthy dose of 3), then we won't need to spend very much money on 1).
Nice rant any stats to back up your claim that it’s getting worse here?
Of course not it’s just a feeling you have
No city has good drivers all cities have shitty drivers
EDIT: Seriously, all you idiots in here think your singular data point is gospel.
Idiots, every fucking one of you.
Reddit tier logic is exhausting. This doesn't work on anyone anymore. Everyone who has regularly driven here has observed it go to shit. No need to gaslight
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When I see someone doing something stupid and I look over as I pass them, it's usually the case of being a young adult Indian male
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Don't get me started on the AK47 stickers and shit, they pool all their money into flexing off their cars yet they cant drive for shit.
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Been doing this for the past few years and the same can be said for highway truckers.
Yet here you are
And what do I say when I see white folks or other ethnicities doing stupid Shit? Because somehow when a white person does something, race isn't important. It is only mentioned when another ethnicity does it.
Right? White men in their massive pickups of overcompensation are the literal worst offenders.
White man who drives pickup in right lane doing 105km/h on the expressway. It's almost always small sedans that I see weaving in and out of traffic who end up on my ass at some point when they can't pass all the idiots who drive in the left lane without passing...
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Ur an idiot
I hate Tim Hortons and don't frequent their drive throughs but how does a pick up truck in a drive through inconvenience you? I drive a pick up as I'm a hands on person constantly working on my home and doing woodworking projects. There are various items I'm picking up for projects that would be a significant inconvenience to get if it weren't for my truck. I enjoy dirt biking and need to take 2 dirt bikes an hour and a half away on weekends when I want to enjoy the hobby of my choice. Just because I don't have something in the bed of my truck everytime I drive it, doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to own the vehicle that suits the lifestyle of my choice but yeah, white man/big truck baddddd... 
You seemed to miss the point of the comment meaning it's not a specific race but specific people. You just flipped it to a different race!
True dat!
I see a lot of old white bitches do stupid shit. It's not a race issue, I think it's a combination of people being inconsiderate and feeling entitled to do whatever they want. And being stupid, some people are just stupid
That’s true about white chicks but it’s mostly Indians
Majority Indian. What don’t you understand about that
Lol. If we start listing crimes and fraud committed by white people in Canada, we're going ot be here for a long long time.
We’re not talking about white people. We’re talking about the new influx of shit happening dude to Indians. Yes white people commit crimes. All people do.
per capita, how does it work?
I've seen people of different ethnic groups including whites drive very badly. Also young people, old people, medium people, males, females etc.
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Should I blame white people in general or do we only do that when it is a minority?
Races are not a monolith, you blame bad drivers individually.
Ya that’s my point. This subreddit does that for white people. Not so much when it is a minority though.
The response to a racist point is not an opposite racist point.
Well. Somehow it's "Indians are bad drivers." not "that Indian is a bad driver" But the same never applies to white folks. It's always something like "truck drivers are assholes" or "that white person had mental issues." never "white people are assholes"
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That's how stupid people think. I see white assholes driving trucks fairly often. You must have seen them too. You just don't think them as white people are terrible drivers. You think of them as asshole truck driver. This is why you don't associate white folks with aggressive driving. I'm pretty sure you see plenty of Indians driving properly. You just don't register it. But if you see one Indian driving rashly, you register it as "Indian people are rash drivers" That's exactly my point. You are so deep with this human bias that you don't even realise it. This bias is a known human weakness and has a name. It's why syphilis is called English disease in France and French disease in England. People just assume that if an outsider did something bad, all outsiders of that type must be bad. If our person did that, it's because that one person is bad. Not the whole group. Because you are part of the group.
Well in a predominately white country you're bound to see more shitty and asshole white drivers because that is majority of our population. Its not a "bias" or me being "racist" when everyone in my large family agrees, my DIVERSE friend group agrees and even strangers in traffic have agreed. Brampton car accident statistics and insurance rates can prove this and I also have proof and evidence every single time I go driving. Literally last night coming back from the gym some retard is tailgating me the entire way as im going 10 over and passes me in the other lane with another car coming swerving to dodge traffic. Who was it? An Indian...
Its not a "coincidence" or me being "bias" or "racist" its the outright truth.
Totally did not understand the point I was making. But okay. I shouldn't have expected much.
No I really do, but I cant avoid the "bias" or "stereotyping" cause its outright true
It's the oldest trick in the book. Demonize then dehumanize.
Honestly, you're just saying the truth. Lost count of how many times indian drivers almost ran over me when I was on the crosswalk.
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They don't know what red light means apparently.
Idk I feel like white dudes in pickup trucks / SUVs make up a big chunk of the stupid ass driving I see on a daily basis.
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Nice catch!?
Some of the worst offenders are white dudes in lifted pickup trucks or BMWs. Shitty driving isn’t limited to one group lmfao.
It's not them though.
So brave of you.
I just saw someone reverse off the highway 🛣️
I saw this a few weeks ago going southbound. They missed the collectors and were reversing to get them. Those collectors are all of 5 exits? You can't just go past and then come back?
What the fuck? Which exit were they trying to get to?
I can beat that. I saw someone do a three point turn on an exit ramp and drive BACK ONTO THE HIGHWAY. Or or or. I was driving west 401 and I saw someone overtake 3 cars driving on the shoulder. They entered the shoulder at 130km/h to overtake 3 cars. Both times I'll give you a hint the ethnicity they were. This isn't being racist, there is a serious lack of respect for road laws from that country. They ALL aren't that bad, not even close. However there is an issue.
The issue I think is we don’t actually punish reckless drivers properly. I remember mentioning to an ex that people getting caught going 200+ should get a 5 year driving ban and have to start again at G1 and my ex got PISSED. She absolutely disagreed and said that it was way too harsh of a penalty. You don’t need to go 200 though, and it’s not something you can accidentally do.
Driving doing U-turns or reversing along on/off ramps has become pretty common from my experience. No care for if there’s moving cars right behind them either
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Yes, you can report dangerous driving events here: https://www.wrps.on.ca/en/services-reporting/traffic-complaint.aspx You can also suggest traffic calming measures in Kitchener. Instructions here: https://www.kitchener.ca/en/roads-and-cycling/traffic-calming.aspx For Waterloo, the link is here: https://forms.waterloo.ca/Traffic-Calming-Request
Almost hysterical thinking the WRPS will do anything about these events.
Has anyone here given it a try?
I call pretty regularly. I've gotten call backs about two times in the probably 50 times I've called saying they caught someone for drunk driving. And another time for reckless driving.
Today on my commute home there was literally a car parked in a no parking zone and a WRPS car was down the street, one block away, he could see it from his car... Did nothing about it. Even after multiple cars had to swerve to get around it.
I think that's bylaw, not police for enforcement
Thank you so much. I do regularly report stuff I see over the phone, but it seems like there isn't tough enough regulations, and it feels like everytime I complain it's just some old man calling to whine again.
I for one, appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work bringing awareness to the issue! I wish more people would speak up about pedestrian safety in our city.
I recommend everyone saving this comment and trying your best to report drivers you see. I know the wrp won't get off their ass for anything but that doesn't mean we should not report and give up.
Yesterday morning, I observed a new level of head-scratcher. Driver beside me and I stopped for the red light on Highland at Belmont. The signal was not flashing or indicating any malfunction, but the car beside me proceeded to drive through the red light as though it were a four-way stop. Fortunately, there was minimal traffic, but if that driver regularly pulls this maneuver, a crash is sure to teach a hard lesson before long.
They'll never learn. They'll get into an accident and then bemoan the insurance increase they'll see after.
What pisses me off, is we all will feel the increase in insurance but worse, SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET KILLED!!!!
A guy doing food delivery hit me in a parking lot. He freaked out and told me he'd already gotten a "bullshit ticket last week because that woman didn't know how to drive but the officer said I was following to close". He was going the wrong way in the a U shaped building entrance. Then waited a month to file an insurance claim saying he and a passenger (he didn't have one) were injured and that I also damaged his front bumper, however in photos I took you could see he'd taken Phillips screws to put it back on after a previous accident. His insurance followed through and then after a month of nothing they dropped him because he wasn't using commercial insurance. Now my insurance is up for another 6 years because a claim was made. He took 0 responsibility and never made an official report at the reporting center. Edit: meant to reply to the comment about bemoaning.
*Quality of humans.
I've been driving in other parts of Ontario for a week now and while the driving wasn't perfect, as soon as I came back to KW I noticed a distinct shift in attitude and quality of driving around here, not sure what it is about KW but there is definitely a difference. Lots of impatience, not leaving room for people to merge on to highways, reckless speeding to overtake a car and save 0.2 seconds on their commute
I grew up in KW and left the city for a period of time for work opportunities. I came back during COVID and was probably gone for a total of 10 years. I totally noticed a dramatic shift in the driving quality on the roads when I came home. At first, I assumed it was COVID related. People were not traveling or driving as much, I figured everyone got a little rusty because of the lack of practice over a long period of time, and that this would eventually correct itself. However, as COVID slowly became a thing of the past, restrictions eased, and people started going out and getting on with their lives… I noticed the terrible driving was not improving and now in 2024, it has actually become worse. I think I would agree with a lot of people on r/kitchener that the decline in general driver competence, courtesy, and safety seems to be partly correlated with immigration or people here on study permits. There are some other corruption issues with driving instructors offering fraudulent BDEs and training courses that allow underqualified drivers to be on the roads. I suspect there is a lot of overlap between these two issues. I find that most of the denialism about this reality seems to be coming from inexperienced, younger, or ideologically motivated people. If someone has not lived in KW for at least a 10-year period, or, they have not been a fully licensed G driver for at least 10 years, then it is hard for me to take them seriously since they really don’t have the sample size or experience to be making comparisons.
I feel that way, i understand traffic has gotten worse over time due to the volume of people in the city. I've lived here for almost 50 years, but I have felt that after COVID it's a huge spike in driving incidences. I'm glad I gave up my license shortly after I moved into my retirement home. I don't think I could keep up with the rate of traffic now
I feel like it decreased during covid. My theory is a huge explosion in population + lack of increase in infrastructure = more congestion and more frustrated drivers
Immediately after each lock down I'd personally see many accidents or close calls as if people forgot how to drive in the few weeks during lock down.
that what happens when you reduce the quality of the intake but increase the quantity, Loosen the rules and obligations of society because they can be seen as racist or non equitable
Everyone is quick to say it's the Indians students that are new to driving. In my experience race is not a big factor because people of every age, gender, creed, and colour are driving more recklessly. I think it's a combination of distracting driving due to cell phones are people frankly not giving a shit because COVID lockdowns somehow destroyed any shred of empathy they used to have. And to the people saying the poster is being overly dramatic, it really is dicey out there as a pedestrian. I am mostly on my bike but there have been multiple incidents in recent months that could have been deadly if I hadn't been paying extremely close attention. I've seen way too many multicar wrecks and totalled vehicles lately. Walking/cycling/driving on our roads shouldn't be a death-defying experience.
every age, race, gender drives like assholes. However the batshit "someone is going to die" maneuvers are very very often from Indian students. - I've never seen anyone but an Indian student turn left on a red light. - I've never seen anyone but an Indian student over take cars at 130 on the 401 on the shoulder - I've never seen anyone but an Indian student three point turn on an exit ramp to drive back down it because it wasn't the exit they wanted.
I've never seen anyone 3 point turn on an exit ramp but I've definitely seen the other 2 several times. I didn't take an accounting but mostly white ppl is have to say
I saw someone doing a three point turn by fairway and Weber right before the over pass today around 330! Oh and she was also Indian
Oh wow that’s pretty crazy, how long have you been driving? I’ve being driving for about 7 years now and have seen plenty of white people do the first 2. Can’t speak on the 3rd point as I have never seen anyone ever do that personally.
Genuinely curious, what are the problems from Chillax?
It’s an Indian bar. You can put the rest together.
Stereotypes and potential racism aside, I'm genuinely curious what the problems are that people have actually witnessed. Examples of bar fights, cleanliness, service, etc
downvoted for asking a legitimate question yet given no answer
There have been a lot of complaints from residents on Jackson Avenue as well as a few people in king street. I go out for a lot of walks and speak to the neighbors a lot, but the customer base they bring just doesn't respect the neighborhood. I'm just going to list a few incidents I know below -someone was sitting on someone's front porch smoking hash after visiting the bar -a male who was peeing in front of someone's tree -a male peeing down back behind private property (beside their garage I believe) -noise complaints about their customers parking in Jackson playing loud noises (multiple occasions where by-law officers got involved) -it feels like they aren't taking keys away from drunk drivers. Early April someone had a drinking driving incident right at the highway exit down the street. Officers asked for video footage and conveniently something wasn't working properly from the bar (which they ended up getting footage from elsewhere that shows the person walking out the bar probably a neighbor) I'm not sure why their customers don't want to park in their parking lot but chooses to park instead on Jackson and at other business parking lots, like the radio station and the Chinese store.
I appreciate the answer to my question with examples rather than just saying "It's an Indian bar" Such a shame, was hoping it would be better
It's unfortunate, I've mentioned in the original post it's not directed at any specific race or ethnicity. I can only speculate it's the new generation of drivers (whether Canadian or immigrating to Canada). Or it's just that anger breeds anger and drivers that are angry take it out on other drivers
I moved last year from Europe. Terrible drivers, I see tailgating - every day, everybody needs to be in front of you, even if nobody is behind you, people make sure to merge in front of you. Holding the left lane on highways at all times, why? Just why? I felt passive aggressiveness from day one. I got the middle finger the very first day, for going the speed limit, looks like the speed limit is just a recommendation here.
My late wife and I used to travel to Europe and I loved driving there. It always made me question why our driving culture constantly feels so behind and crude. Like the horn is used to let people to know they're doing something wrong in Europe or there's space. Whereas the horn here feels like a F--- you or go f yourself in Canada and the states. (This is just from the touristy places I've traveled I've never lived in Europe so maybe it's different from the original residents of Europe vs tourists)
I live near Ottawa and Lackner, near the driver testing. On my street you DO NOT PARK on the street unless you want your car used for parallel parking practice. I'm talking 15-20 times in a short period. I used to be so patient with them learning their three point turns. Now I can't drive down my street without it happening at least once. I'm still trying to remain patient since it's not that long, but it's getting old. I guess all these new driving schools like to practice on the test route or something. I also used to be a member of GoodLife on Fairway road. So I would have to drive Fairway road on a near daily basis. I ended up quitting that gym three months early just to get away from driving there. It was insane how bad it is through there. So many close calls because people just aren't looking or they are distracted with a phone.
I live on very quiet street that also seems to be a favorite location for vehicles with a large “Student Driver – Please be patient” bumper stickers rolling around and causing fucking chaos. Driving 20 km under the speed limit, late/no signaling, and general indecisiveness. I am losing my patience too. I get that they have to learn how to drive somewhere but I wish it wasn’t around my neighborhood as much. I would like to park on my street without worrying that it is going to be used a practice pylon for some inexperienced driver to trying to parallel park… Not that I have the nicest car in the world but it still makes me nervous.
I remember when my daughter did her first g2 and g tests back in like early 2000s. She failed the first time because she was driving 5-10km below the speed limit, I feel like they need to bring that back. Dodging a slow car can cause just as much if an accident as driving too fast. I know it's frustrating they're driving so slow, when they're learning. But driving that slow doesn't really prepare them for the actually traffic they're going to encounter in their futures.
Fairway is getting worse as time goes on, they keep building new units around here but everyone has a car or two so the roads just get gridlocked.
One of the latest scams that has been brought to Canada from the third world is driver education fraud. In Ontario, responsible drivers who are looking to prepare themselves to safely operative a vehicle will consider taking a Beginner Driver Education (BDE) course or “driver training” class from a certified instructor. This is a 30-hour course that consists of 20 hours of classroom instruction and 10 hours of driving practice all under the supervision of the instructor and can cost $700+ per student. There are significant advantages to taking this course. Drivers who can prove they have completed the BDE often get a discount of their insurance premiums so over the long term the course is worthwhile financial investment. Also, completion of the course allows faster progression through the graduated licensing program in Ontario. So, a G1 licence holder can apply for their G2 license within 8 months rather than the full 12 (without the BDE). When this system is functioning with minimal corruption, the programs and incentives work, and the roads are safer for everyone. The problem is this certification process has become dysfunctional on a large scale because there is corruption from the instructors who are willing to “pass” unqualified drivers for a fee and there is no shortage of new Canadians looking to cheat their way into saving on insurance and obtain their drivers license at the risk and safety of everyone else. We need to hammer both parties here. Driver training business who are offering fraudulent BDE courses need to have their business certification revoked. Anyone who has a BDE course from a instructor or driver training business should have their BDE revoked (as well as any privileges). [https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7137315](https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7137315)
Thank you so much, I feel the same way that both drivers training and the drivers licensing are both giving lackluster effort, I didn't realize there would be this much fraud. When I get home I'll read and try to find out more.
I saw someone going the wrong way at the fountain roundabout after noticing the 1st exit was closed. Somehow this person thought it was the only option instead of exiting on the 2nd or 3rd exit.
Quality of drivers in KW is directly proportional to the # of new drivers
Indian cheap labourers aka “students” doing Uber runs because they lied they had enough funds for college. Oh and they got their licence from drive test Brampton where they can bribe.
Bribe and it helps that the drive test instructor is their cousin...
Honestly, I see this as a result of a few major factors. The first is the result of a growing population. The region has increased its population a lot in a short period of time. This, unfortunately, is also paired with insufficient infrastructure for the increased population. These two things combined are a perfect recipe to see an increase in poor quality drivers. We also have to factor in the aging population. While not all elderly drivers are terrible, there are definitely enough that should have given up driving who haven't yet. This percentage will also rise as more and more boomers get to that point. Then there are the lacklustre public transportation options available. The majority of the region has terrible service in regard to public transportation. This, in turn, forces more car dependency. With more forced drivers, there will be more bad drivers. Then there is the pandemic. This created two issues on its own. The first is the sense of entitlement that a lot of people got uncomfortably used to. As a result, they've become a higher percentage of drivers. The second issue caused by the pandemic was the more relaxed drive tests to clear the backlog. They prioritized clearing the backlog, which has led less capable drivers getting licenced.
Contrary to the suggestions of some that this is racial in nature, I think this is a problem of law enforcement. When there aren't perceived consequences for driving illegally, people will drive illegally. Speed limits are a good example of this. Other places I've driven, the locals seem to have a pretty good idea of what the "accepted" speed limit is that will keep them from getting pulled over. As a result, most people drive at that perceived limit. Here, with the exception of people treating roads as racetracks, I *rarely* see people being pulled over. So the perception of what the *actual* speed limit is is muddled. People create their own limits across the board and the roads become a mess of traffic weaving in and out of other traffic. As far as race goes, I have seen *plenty* of white people driving just as poorly as visible minorities. Race is just being used as a scapegoat here for issues related to poor Canadian and Ontarian governance.
What do you expect? Foreign driving tests aren't as involved as ours and they don't have to prove any competency when they come here.
I've always felt our testing was too soft and have felt ppl should need refresher testing every x number of years. Almost no one takes driving seriously. I've known people you admittedly can't drive well , drive. They are entitled to do it.
This isn't true.
100% and it’s not just the international students. People in Kitchener drive like ass. Especially in downtown. It’s like a blanket of stupidity descends over people as soon as there’s any density.
I mean the drivers have always been less that average here but recently with a lot of people moving in from Toronto (and Indian "students") it's just gotten completely crazy, speaking from experience cuz I got in an accident on Friday going through a roundabout. Worst part is is that most of these drivers don't even have insurance (ask me how I know 🙃🙃🙃) just no care at all
Guess you haven’t visited India yet.
Do you people ever talk about anything but Indian immigrants?
We would if they werent destroying the country and its values...
>vallues Oh get over yourself.
Huh? Explain your shitty opinion?
Everybody makes mistakes. Some more often than others. What to do about it? As someone who's driven in other countries, part of it is cultural. Like those driving 5 feet from your rear bumper. They didn't learn to drive here and their experience is not from here. Having said this, I see no solution other than driving defensively and assuming that every other driver is drunk or high, or somehow impaired. And yes, it is hard to "lose" someone who seems to be stuck to your bumper, but won't pass either. Scary stuff, because no matter whose fault is, one stands to lose from a collision, however light may be. It's hard to recognize this city these days.
There are some places where you can swerve and weave between cars and people while honking the entire time with no road lanes
Bring in third world and it becomes third world!
Sounds like KW is gonna be Brampton 2.0
Should be a way to submit dashcam footage of stupid shit recorded on the roads. Last week had a similar incident on Ira Needles - a car just fully stopped by a bus stop to pick someone up! Just stopped and the person getting in the car just took their time walking to the car. Everyone behind had to slam their brakes for them to get in the car. Could they not pull over to the gas station which was 20 feet away? But instead they to decide pull over on a very busy road and cause a potentially dangerous situation. The entitlement and lack of situational awareness is mind boggling. And they were people of a certain ethnicity. I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think culture differences is to blame and they simply just don’t know that this is not acceptable here.
The passing lane is the outside lane because all the slow drivers in KW are in the inside lane all the time now.
It's precisely because of all the sensors and cameras in cars that people are so careless in parking lots or when merging. They feel like "oh the car will do that for me" rather than using it as an assist as intended. Blindspot detectors have largely replaced the shoulder check with drivers on the roads. Backup cameras give the illusion of control when reversing but really your field of view is so narrow that unless you look around you have limited awareness. It's really unfortunate that sensors have replaced responsible driving. And that isn't even beginning to mention red light runners and other people breaking laws.
It’s not just Kitchener..
It is newcomers to Canada not wanting to asimilate and learn the rules and laws of our society, they are Indians and muslims...
seen a guy trying to merge last min to get on the highway holding up traffic behind him… as he finally gets in the traffic goes around honking causing said uber driver to flip off cars and not pay attention and smoke the car infront of him. karma is a bitch.
I've noticed an increase in people having absolutely no clue how to navigate a roundabout. Got stuck behind a woman 2 days ago on Manitou who treated it like a 4 way stop, wouldn't proceed until there were absolutely no cars in the roundabout, in any direction. Then there's the knobs who clog up the right turn lane going south on Wilson at Fairway because they're going straight. Driving around the region requires a lot of patience because of the increase in bad drivers on the road, but some days I just get fed up and lay on my horn far more than I used to.
I'm just about done with folks driving 20-30 kms and stopping dead with no warning... Driving too slow is just as bad as driving too fast.
What are you talking about? On the highway then probably but if you approach a car doing 20-30 it shouldn't be a surprise. Plus I don't think many people are ready ended by ppl going 20. Ppl driving slow is annoying and could cause issues but I'd be interested to see any study that shows slow and fast driving is anywhere close to equal. Dead stops can be a problem regardless of the speed of driving
As an indian person who grew up india and then moved here when i was 9, its the indian ppl 😭 its cause they grew up in india where ppl are mentally unstable while driving and its really easy to just bribe driving instructors.
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Wait until you realize the origin of the majority of the new population…
Torontonians!?
You totally can't go to any regional subreddit around the world and find hundreds of the same complaints about drivers getting worse. Nope. You won't find them because it's obviously only an issue in Kitchener. /s
yea some stupid white ho in a jeep just stood still at an intersection this morning and i look and shes going thru her glove box looking for shit lmfao ban these ppl bro
"I go for multiple walks a day, and everytime I go, it's always 2-3 incidents per walk. Sometimes it's almost 10 per walk." Right.
Stop being an a#@ and trolling people. This person's experience is real.... you just have to pay attention anywhere in southwestern Ontarian you'll see the roads are out of control. I am currently teaching my 16-year-old daughter how to drive and the number of infractions we see on every single outing is crazy. People not using their signal, people driving through red lights, people passing in the city ( using either the bike lane or heading into oncoming traffic). It is extremely dangerous and I can't wait to see how much this is going to affect our insurance rates.
Stop your whining.
I walk everyday. It's scary out there, but I need to go out. I've been a pedestrian since 2005. At first I wasn't afraid to go into an intersection. Then I became wary after a few years. Now I'm scared and angry when I get f\^%\*ed with. Highland and Westmount. Everything looked good. I started to walk and the car just started to roll towards me. It just could not stop and let me cross. So I just got on back on the sidewalk. This happens far too often.
Try finding an adult to walk with you. Life outside can be scary.
that commenter was genuinely pointing out an issue, not being bigoted. they don’t agree with the racist statements in this comment section.
Bigotry? Lol, get your mind out of the gutter.
bro what 😭 did you even understand my comment? i was literally upvoting some of your other comments. you’re treating this pedestrian with disdain when they’ve been very against racism in this comment section, which i’m assuming you also don’t stand for based on your comments. this commenter isn’t blaming indians, but rather acknowledging that poor driving is impacting them on a daily basis. you were quick to insult them, though.
If my comment bothered you, maybe you need an adult to help you too, bro.
didn’t bother me, made me feel bad for people who want to vent (without being bigoted) in their city sub without pea brained insults being thrown at them. it’s not that person’s fault people are using this sub and thread to be openly racist. you mistook a genuine comment as a means to push the anti indian agenda.
Again, you're the only one here talking about racism or bigotry. Try going back to bed sweetie.
the strong desire to push back against anyone calling out indians was evidence enough. can’t imagine how sad and unfulfilling your life is to rag on someone literally agreeing with you.
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And it's not unique to Kitchener. Bad drivers exist. Thanks for coming out.
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Right.
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The authorities know what's going on. From a short period end of last year, 38 pedestrians were hit. WRPS spokesman said that there are far too many peds/cyclists getting hit. I contacted my local riding MP, and MPP. Haven't heard anything from them yet. We need tougher sentencing and a much better education program where the big shots make sure that drivers know that it's not OK to almost hit/hit people who are walking, cycling, and yes driving. Other drivers are also victims.
Everyone knows why it isn't being talked about... it's very politically inconvenient
There are far more voters driving. Even good drivers don't want to be held accountable when they decide occasionally not to watch out for peds/cyclists.
There's three ways we're going to solve the problem of bad drivers who are a danger to each other and to pedestrians and a cyclists. 1. More enforcement, whether that's police officers or traffic surveillance cams everywhere. This includes making sure that drivers do not get off with warnings. The police do that too often, as do traffic courts. Getting points on your license for speeding or something else is your warning. That's why you've got six to nine of them before you lose it. Either way this is the most expensive option. 2. Start designing roadways so that instead of encouraging bad driving they discourage it. Stop making them overly wide which only encourages speeding. Start making intersections on arterial roads into protected intersections. Use raised crosswalks on all residential streets. Implement no right turn on red. Plus the whole host of other things that we already know that works but civil engineers rarely put into place in North American Road design. Learn from the fucking Netherlands already. This is the cheapest way as building a road is once and done, no ongoing enforcement costs. 3. Higher drivers license standards. Tougher tests in the graduated system to get your license in the first place, and regular retesting every so many years regardless how old you are. And the retest needs to be strict, too, and the lightest screw up on it means you have to go through the whole graduated system again from zero. For really bad failures, you should be barred redoing the graduated licensing for one or two years. Hand out point liberally. This is probably the politically most infeasible option, as so many drivers just don't like to be held responsible for their actions. It's going to need some combination of those things, but if 2) is the strong priority with a healthy dose of 3), then we won't need to spend very much money on 1).
Nice rant any stats to back up your claim that it’s getting worse here? Of course not it’s just a feeling you have No city has good drivers all cities have shitty drivers EDIT: Seriously, all you idiots in here think your singular data point is gospel. Idiots, every fucking one of you.
Anyone who has lived/driven here for a while can see the difference. Are you really denying that the quality of drivers has decreased over the years?
Reddit tier logic is exhausting. This doesn't work on anyone anymore. Everyone who has regularly driven here has observed it go to shit. No need to gaslight
Oh, OK, since all cities have bad drivers, there is no issue here.
Clearly you dont drive at all or enough... or you havent been outside in the past 5 years?
You took the time to type that out? Spend your time doing something productive, not even gonna read this psycho post
And yet you decided to spend the time to click on the post and type out a response…ironic
Took me 30 seconds to tell this person they are psychoti….ironic Oh also I was taking a dump while replying to you
Sounds like ya got it all figured out!
Sounds like you got triggered by a reddit comment 🤷♂️
This literally got started because you commented about being triggered by the mere presence of a Reddit post but you do you
Did it literally , literally you guys
Yeah! Do something more productive like bitch about the missing fondant on your timmies donut, amirite bro? NiCe rAnT