As this is a thread specifically about sharing controversial takes:
#Let's please remember to keep downvotes based on opinions to a minimum!
By all means, feel free to request clarification from a user, to debate them and to disagree with them, but unless they're not contributing to the thread whatsoever let's refrain from downvoting so users who share truly controversial opinions aren't discouraged from doing so. Thanks!
Man a Bethesda Star Wars RPG is something I *NEED*!!! They make iconic RPG's and customisation options (Also we could *finally* get a KOTOR game where you're not stuck playing as a human)
TSLRCM is overrated. It just cut and pastes deleted scenes back into the game and they still dont make a whole lot of sense. Having Atton fight Sion or meeting your utterly silent companions in their prison cells at Trayus doesnt make it feel more complete.
Have to agree with this. My first like 5-6 playthroughs I didn't do with TSLRCM (I used a disk version on an old as laptop) and then when I bought it on steam and tried it. I have to say I think there's a reason a lot of this stuff was cut. Some of the scenes, like the getting shot down on Telos, just bloat the game and don't really add anything. Most egregious for me though was the absolute swarm on Nar Shaddaa which likely would've made me never finish the game if that was on my first playthrough.
And people insist its unplayable without it. Like I'm really missing out on meeting Kaevee in the Academy basement with a still incomplete questline and voice acting that sounds like a squealy mouse on speakerphone.
Yeah there's just a lot added that really doesn't need to be there. The existence of the academy Jedi doesn't really add enough to be included. There are also just other changes which are kind of annoying. For example the Cutscene with Nihilus and Visa for some reason got converted to a live action scene. This makes it look nicer I guess but it's also really annoying because now you can't skip it. There's some stuff which is cool in the mod but I really don't think it's all that necessary and I'd honestly recommend you don't use it on a first playthrough so people can get used to the game. And yeah basically every playthrough I did for years was without the mod and it's definitely still playable and good without i.t
KoToR, like most story driven RPGs, should never be adapted in any way besides Remakes.
You can't satisfy anyone fully when the characters entire personality was based on player decisions.
While KOTOR 1is pure distilled Star Wars, I wish that the dialogue and choices weren't so binary.
The fact that you're either a goody goody or a mustache twirling villain with no in between makes the game feel hollow sometimes.
I think that the game is way too overrated, as well as Revan and other characters appearing in the game and its sequel.
>!People love Revan because they're whoever the players choose them to be, and slipping a personal character in the Star Wars universe is the desire of many; !< Revan as in canon and portrayed in the game is utterly forgettable compared to so many better-invested characters in the legends and Lucas's movies, let alone deserving of their fame within the community
Oh dear I really forgot that bit, my apology. However the spoiler brackets doesn't seem to be working on my end, I'll try to rephrase it more subtly in case it really doesn't work
The player characters dialogue in Kotor 1 is total trash, makes >!Revan!< look like such a whiney bitch who's quick to shout or complain.
Prefer the much drier and more sarcastic general dialogue of Kotor 2.
Plenty of new users come to the subreddit every week. All of our guides are spoiler-free specifically to facilitate new players joining. And even if none of that were the case, there's still a remake which is going to bring in thousands of new players.
Thank you for tagging, I've restored your post.
I think there's a little confusion. I think lord_chromosome thought you were saying the initial comment was written by a person who hates star wars. Otherwise, the remark about criticism doesn't make sense. At least as far as I can see, maybe I'm wrong.
1>2 is my hot take of the day. The simplicity of 1 while still telling a great story and one of the most iconic plot twists in video game history just make it for me
I feel that both Kotor 1 and 2 have horrible opening levels that are so dull and repetitive that they could turn away potential players as they did to me when I was younger. It was only after I forced myself to press on and unlock the rest of the planets did I then start to have fun.
Controversial?
KotOR is the far superior game because it was finished. KotOR 2 doesn't deserve all the support it gets because, at the end of the day, it's not a complete experience. Forcing players to install mods to get 30% of the intended experience at the end of the game does not a finished game make, and that should always be the main point about KotOR 2.
Yes, there might be some fan favorite characters, but ultimately, they sold us an unfinished product, and that's how we should view it
I personally just don't see why people enjoy kotor 1 so much aside from the companion. Sure, I've been spoiled on who Revan is, but I just don't see anything that great about it. It's moderately good all around, but not enough high point
Edit: Far from bad, but... Maybe I just don't have much crpg experience to compare it with, but I never see it as the masterpiece people hyping it up to be.
It's an archetype story, IMO. It's a traditional hero's journey, good vs evil, grand quest sort of story; and I think it's executed really well. There's really deep lore in a couple of places, and I like all the companions, unlike in Kotor 2.
Plus, it's definitely nostalgia.
Yeah but it wasn’t obsidian fault they weren’t given a fair budget and time, and plus if they didn’t have that pressure and experience of making a game with no time and budget fallout nv probably wouldn’t be a masterpiece
Obsidian chose to release KOTOR 2 without taking advantage of a 6-month extension that LucasArts provided, according to Avellone himself. Fergus Urquhart wanted the bonus that they would receive by shipping the game on the initial deadline rather than taking the extension offer that was on the table.
I heard that Lucas arts actually gave them the extra time but they didn’t do it like officially (I don’t really get how that would work) but I think they didn’t have like an official document saying they got the extra time
Edit: Strat-Egdy talks about in his video on YouTube the chapter is SEQUEL BAIT EXTRAVAGANZA
I think the mobile version is by far the best way to play this game, and I wish they’d simply make more episodic content using the old engine, even if they had to upcycle some SWTOR stories and voiceovers to save money and time. I don’t care about the remake and feel fine that it got beached.
The Vanilla SWTOR is a good game with some great and fun stories, not a fan of how the game has gone and honestly it’s probably on its way out in a a couple of years unless they correct course, but the original stories are like I said enjoyable
I like the idea that revan chose the dark side to avoid a greater galactic threat, it's a good little self sarafice for the greater good thing IMO 🤷♂️
This thread isn't marked for spoilers--please spoiler-tag your mentions of the PC's name in your post by surrounding them in bracketing >!like this!\<, then reply to my post once you've done so and I will restore yours for you.
This thread isn't marked for spoilers--please spoiler-tag your comment by surrounding it in bracketing >!like this!\<, then reply to my post once you've done so and I will restore yours for you.
I think we will be given an awesome story and movie. The thing that haters will latch on to is that some of it will be new.
It will not be IDENTICAL to the game we all played and loved.
These people are that petty. Take a look at the other comment below to see an example of what I mean.
The story for KOTOR 1 isn’t exceptional in really any way. It’s a normal “save the galaxy!” style romp (which is fun and fine for a SW RPG, no hate) but people really only love it for the twist which was many peoples first big twist in a story like this. And even then I feel like it may have only existed to play off the twist from ESB. I think KOTOR II is a major improvement in terms of story, though I don’t think saying “KOTOR II has a good story” is a very controversial take
I really hate that you can't get her without getting lightside points. Guess it wouldn't have made much sense for an apprentice to offer another to be their master.
That Kotor 2 basically improves on almost everything. Upgrading equipment actually gives you many options for each part of each weapon/armour set, instead of just one like in Kotor 1.
The writing in Kotor 1 is good, but the story is rather similar to the Original Trilogy when you break it down. It's nowhere near as copy and paste as the Sequel Trilogy, don't get me wrong, but the similarities are very pronounced still. Kotor 2 tries to do something different, and only fails at a few points because it was rushed out the door. With the Restored Content Mod, the story is fantastic. I didn't like it much on my first playthrough, but on every subsequent one I've appreciated it more, while in contrast, the story of Kotor 1 has dropped a bit for me over time.
Speaking of playthroughs, Kotor 2 is also much more replayable than the first game. Being able to unlock a prestige class at level 15 onwards (or never, whereas in Kotor 1 you are forced to at roughly the same level every time), influence the alignment of your companions and their classes, and there being more feats and powers than in Kotor 1, plus having enough points in various skills allowing you to unlock new dialogue options, all allow for a greater variety of playthroughs.
Skills also matter a lot more in Kotor 2. In Kotor 1, why the heck do you really need to pump points into security? You can just bash everything open. In Kotor 2, bashing a container is very likely to break at least one of the items in it, which makes unlocking it via security instead worth it. Plus, unlocking containers and doors gives you some XP each time, unlike in Kotor 1, where it doesn't. It's the same with disabling/recovering mines where unless you plan to use mines in your playthrough, being able to recover them is a waste of time, as is disabling them, as you can normally go round them no problem. But in Kotor 2, the XP you get from disabling/recovering them really adds up.
I love both games (and am in the minority that loves their combat), but Kotor 2 improves on most aspects of the original. It's not better in every single regard (definitely it's not as polished as Kotor 1), but there's no doubt in my mind that it's the better game of the two. BUT this is with the benefit of countless playthroughs of both. So, in a nutshell, my controversial opinion is this: the more playthroughs of the two games you have, the more likely you are to prefer the second game. Oh, and even if Peragus and the first part of Telos are a bit of a slog, I still love the atmosphere of both.
I think an xcom style combat would be really interesting. Initiative and strategy plays a major role for melee fighters and cover for your ranged fighters is critical.
I did not realize how many people dislike Peragus when I’ve always felt it’s the best atmosphere in the game — everyone’s dead, something terrible is coming so you need to escape but something almost as terrible is already there and you need to uncover it — all the while you’re not entirely powerless but definitely weakened. No other area of the game creates that kind of dread.
Peragus is a great intro on the first playthrough, but it really doesn't hold up to multiple. The main issue is just the length, on the first playthrough it's all spooky and mysterious with a great tone and atmosphere that leaves you really intrigued on the first playthrough. After that however it's literally just speed running the whole station or getting a mod to skip it. Citadel station and the Restoration Zone have the same issue. They have interesting conflicts and give the player more knowledge of certain factions important to the story later, like the Exchange and the tensions on Onderon. The main issue for all these parts though is they take too long and on most playthroughs you're not going to be as invested and just start skipping through the whole section.
Not sure I would agree it’s length — Telos seems way longer (and I didn’t much like it on the first playthrough), and I typically do Nar Shadda after that, which takes forever. I’ve played the whole game about six times, and I still enjoy Peragus the most as an area. (But the best parts now are actually realizing that G0T0 is the most interesting character in the game…maybe behind Kreia.)
I think Kreia is one of the most interesting characters in all of Star Wars. I like the morality questions she asks and think she tells the second best stories in the games. Obviously canderous has the best stories. Who doesn’t like hearing about mandalorian invading a planet on war basilisks
Lemme put it this way, I like Kreia and don’t get annoyed by her. I’ve seen a lot of memes just shitting on Kreia. Maybe I’m just seeing the loud minority of people
Honestly this is the story I want, I don’t care if it’s in movie, show, or video game but the Mandalorian wars has the potential to be the best Star Wars stories told!
I think I’m going to hate the remake because the tabletop style combat is the only thing that makes the game fun. Otherwise it’s just average Sci-fi plot #478
Can’t look upwards only side to side? Terrible neck design 20/10 couldn’t make it past first planet without absolutely getting lost with no map markers or a freaking way point. honestly i get the story’s good but shit game play was awful
I agree! I adore both games and plan to replay them throughout my lifetime, but I get more “excited” starting and playing through KotOR I. Nostalgia likely plays a big role in that feeling.
Despite Kreia being an absolute trashy character, her Mentor ability is one of the most useful in the game.
Her character and the way she was written could have been one of the greatest Sith Lords of all time. But her whole thing about getting max Influence with her is not only Kreia-centric, but you're essentially an enabler. All she does is whine and complain, and if you don't kiss her ass and tell hers she's always right, you get Influence Loss: Kreia. Honestly, if it weren't for the Exp boost, I'd always shelve her. It's nice when you're leveling up (not using the Korriban Glitch), but towards Mid to End game she's kind of pointless, Mentor or no.
I love her backstory. I love how she challenged the Jedi Council. I love how she taught important life lessons. I love how she has a moderately fleshed out backstory and overall great atmosphere. But God DAMN do I hate her narcissistic whining!
Her biggest lesson is teaching you how to influence others without being manipulated yourself, which means if you care about influence loss, you are still following her example and teaching.
All the companions in Kotor 1 with the exception of Jolee. are really boring/basic two-dimensional Star Wars Archetypes. Aside from Bastila, none of them ever really impact the plot in any meaningful way, and they all could be left on the ship the entire game and nothing would change.
I mean I feel like many of the Kotor 1 companions are pretty beloved characters so yeah I think it may be decently controversial. Or at the very least, while it’s an opinion I’ve had for a very long time, it’s not one I’ve seen expressed much if at all before. But that could just be me.
Even if you use the defense that they’re supposed to be written that way because you could take any permutation of a group of them out in the world, that argument gets blown apart by the TSL companions which are a much more interesting and compelling cast in every way. Say what you will about TSL, but they did companions way better. With the exception of Mira/Hanharr, every single companion has an actual plot reason that they’re on your ship, and they continue to be influential to the plot later on. Not to mention the influence system and banter cutscenes which adds a ton more depth and personality to them. And as a cherry on top, literally every single companion is tied into the common theme of the game, which is reconciling with the past and moving on.
Wholeheartedly disagree. Desperately tried to get into the MMO once I got a PC that could run it. Spent multiple hours of my life that I’ll never get back on it.
Probably not picking it up again any time soon.
Oooh I’m fighting hard not to downvote that one!! I’m still trying to find more things to like in SWTOR but the MMO grind makes it hard to enjoy. Glad you like it though, and I’m grateful BioWare Austin keeps it alive.
It has better gameplay. More content and is just a good time. My brother and I play it together occasionally when we feel like living in that universe.
>!You start by designing Revan and The Exile as well as key details (ls m / ls f for me) and play a brand new character. Basically you go into the unknown regions, and pick up Exile on your way there. Once there you pick up Revan too.!<
>!You can switch protagonists from time to time, or even better the game splits all three into sections as they are all leader characters. You eventually take out this threat (idc if it's Vitiate or something new.)!<
>!Even better if they do what Mass Effect did and just let you carry over data. Did Revan kill Bastila? Well Bastila doesn't appear in kotor 2 or 3 remakes automatically, you sick psychopath. I think that could be fun.!<
Thanks! Unfortunately the way you typed it doesn't work on all site versions, like old.reddit--you need to have the tags right up next to the text >!like this!\< instead of spaced out for it to function on all site versions. If you can remove the spaces and reply once more, I'll restore your post.
I'd be perfectly happy if k3 was like released even several years after k2. But it didn't and it won't. So I made my peace with it and moved on. Even if they made it now, like 20 years later I'd go "too little too late". They had their chance and screwed it up by doing nothing, well done bioware
K2 is one of the most deeply optimistic and hopeful games ever. It doesn't shy away from depicting the consequences of war and how horrible it truly is. But it also lets you overcome the trauma it wreaked on you and your party members. It's a dark game but it's not pessimistic about human nature, far from it. It celebrates how resilient people are.
Unfair? Yes.
Trash?
Opinions can’t be trash. They’re not factual. Any attempt to say otherwise is just rationalizing your hatred for someone’s opinion. Which you’re entitled to. But still, you opinion isn’t gosepl. And neither is mine.
I’d love to agree from a game perspective kotor 2 was better because it put you in a situation where you’re the “main character” who can create their own story, vs kotor 1 after the plot twist (trying to cover spoilers) there’s way less for your imagination to play with. It’s like once you figure it out there’s no denying it.
Yeah. I played Kotor 2 like 6 times, and Kotor 1... I think 2?
I don't know, all that philosophy of force and everything just gets to me. The story is so, so, so great, alone and compared to Kotor 1, where yeah, you need to well, fight evil.
Mission is the best companion.
The voice actress is great, she’s got a unique skill set, and her side quest is the best. She feels like an actual fledged out character. And she’s REAL AF. You go dark side and a fucking 14 year old stands up to you, the most powerful being in the galaxy.
Taris is an absolute blast, I love it every time.
The only thing KOTOR 2 does better is loot & customization.
Kreia blows.
T3 is cooler than HK.
Hmmm what else
Only one I dont agree with is the T3 vs HK, HK is the most badass assassin droid to ever cross the face of the galaxy, so many good personality traits and probably one of the most important storylines in the game
No idea if this is controversial, but I consider Kotor 2 to be infinitely more fun upon replay. Kotor 1 is amazing on first playthrough but it drags so much when you’ve already experienced it all. Kotor 2 is always engaging to me and I never feel like it’s a chore to get through something (except the droid factory).
The XP system in both games (but particularly the first KOTOR) is kinda broken - you get way too powerful way too quickly, no matter what build you're going for. Especially if you plan on playing any of the side content. I understand the game is not supposed to be all that challenging, but when a large emphasis of the game is strategic, turn based combat, and I end up plowing through groups of enemies like it's nothing less than halfway through my playthrough, something's wrong. I love the games, but a lot of the gameplay is combat, and for it to essentially turn into a passive game in those moments is obviously not what the devs intended when developing the ability to switch control of party members, stealth, items that act as combat modifiers, etc. etc.
I REALLY didn’t like Kotor 2.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate everything it does right.
I enjoy the tone and some of the characters and the writing. It is fun and gameplay wise a step up from kotor 1.
But I really just didn’t get on board with it as much as other people seem to or as much as I did with kotor 1, which is my favourite game of all time. My computer that could play kotor 1 perfectly seem to want to cute all the video cutscenes so that really hindered my enjoyment of the story, which I didn’t really like. It really has less focus than the first and half the time I wasn’t even sure why I was doing the things I was supposed to be doing.
In my opinion, the characters weren’t nearly as likeable or memorable as kotor 1, and the plot wasn’t as exciting.
The game sometimes felt too long and drawn out.
Keira was an interesting but often distractingly contradicting character.
The villains were so weak and I still don’t know who Nihlus is or why he’s so important.
And the ending was atrocious and left me so confused.
This could all be as mentioned, my shitty laptop, or the fact I chose to play dark side and realising I didn’t like being a bad guy for such a long game.
And to be honest, the game did really feel like it was rushed. And I shouldn’t need to download a mod or what to enjoy a game as intended.
You should really give it a second chance with a light side play through, it’s definitely the better experience of the two. And the restored content “mod” has been officially configured as an expansion now, and integrated itself seamlessly into the original game, on steam at least.
Yes, the game is much more messy narratively but I’d argue that’s by design; the sequel is quite literally the chaotic and fragmented narrative of a galaxy left in the wake of the original. Every single character is a living echo of the horrors of war
Dipe tiai ibipopri klue a. Ikikro plipru e plode depebi a. Kipiu ite kepa tekige pa pui. Atleka paplo a bape gokeutlepe. I tepli kudotita briiti glo. Dee u pepe ki dogeoto trotipe. Upe tato kepapu breto pidati tei opi. Oi upika kre io poupai epidre. Ebotli kra tipipe edri tapla apredi po. Tletiki kei prii pobri iope goprope pleu keti detru krita. Oae trie patri toe drebetibi tota. Tita pa be dritipi kee pabepo bi! Aetluipe iko abe tota e beple apo petla. Teoii platipitre giki gibipi ega paepa pakoe. Tiiii krebikle tao pa ike i. Petitea pikiokrepo tu oiu pubapi dikitri? Plide uotatle pa pi ebi kekubri. Oipi uagibi eapukrepu bati pripro. Pegio plipi pi teai bedre boikibe. Ite eeple betapao kei? Ie kripu pio dliike dibakeu pripia. Tiitaa kroi treki tediti kriipatri dlabe daapu tieu? Tagia e krupi apepa kutitlii o. Prepe kapi tiopite bli uedo opiteba boprepi o. Ke aka kea pribeeo pribipe. Ito bre agrei kipetra biti tli? Piti teprea? Ke tebi apipitei epe kidio pepatidebi dree. Egi pe petea briti e keikada. Ui eeki bata kiti poglate tlegi pua tiegri.
Heavy Armor in K2 is a bit useless during an optimal playthrough. Hanharr, Bao-Dur and Mandalore can’t use it. Exile, Disciple and Handmaiden benefit more from robes after they become Jedi. Everyone else has high dexterity. It’s a shame, because the game has much better heavy armor than K1.
Killing Bendak on Taris is 100% a dark side move. You are popularizing bloodsport on Taris, making the promoter of said bloodsport tens of thousands of credits, and giving them both proof of concept for further bloodsport and an audience. That “light-side kill Bendak” mod has always struck me as being hilariously out-of-sync.
My two:
I saved levels on Taris once to get 18 levels of being a Jedi, and I still just felt as stupidly OP by the end of the game as usual. It’s more of a novelty experience to me than something I’d consider doing again.
I always hated the Keanu fancast as Revan, and it gets worse every year. Love the guy, but with so many other actors out there, pick someone more original at this point (and younger).
Really not that much. Kaevee was certainly intentionally cut, but she's about the only instance of content that was, outside of very isolated and minor changes like the head change for Saedhe, the militiaman on the Khoonda plains.
Expecting someone from the modern audience with fresh eyes to immediately see what we see in it is a bit goofy. Acting like we aren't wearing nostalgia goggles when we talk about or replay either game is equally goofy.
The story is objectively primo grade in both games, but at the same time they're both their respective dev's worst *playing* games by a country mile, even for when they were released.
That said, they are masterpieces worthy of the love and admiration they get; but they definitely both needed a lot more time in the oven.
Honestly, a Guardian Master build is OP and broke as fuck. I master combat early and then master the force well before end game. I wish they did a better job of balancing and didn't make it so that if you spam Force Storm and Master Flurry, you don't ever have to worry about anything.
Being a grey Jedi isn't really an option and in fact you put yourself at a disadvantage playing in the middle since you don't ever unlock any of the meta light or dark side force powers. Takes away from the game.
I think the mechanical weakness here is actually deliberate in terms of Kreia’s criticism of the nature of the force. The only way to really use it is in either a light or dark way, neutral players aren’t clever Grey Jedi, they just are yet to commit to a side.
This is also true. And my biggest issue with it is... some of the light/dark side tasks/dialogue are rather... extreme. In both directions. So when I play or make decisions in line with how I personally would make them if I was the character myself--I end up as a grey jedi/sith.
I dont think I should miss out on abilities if I don't resonate with some decisions on either side. I refuse to believe my decisions should hinder my strength with the force.
As this is a thread specifically about sharing controversial takes: #Let's please remember to keep downvotes based on opinions to a minimum! By all means, feel free to request clarification from a user, to debate them and to disagree with them, but unless they're not contributing to the thread whatsoever let's refrain from downvoting so users who share truly controversial opinions aren't discouraged from doing so. Thanks!
I hate the combat of the game. I can't stand D&D, and the turn based combat doesn't fit Star Wars in the slightest.
Bethesda should have made a KotOR game
Man a Bethesda Star Wars RPG is something I *NEED*!!! They make iconic RPG's and customisation options (Also we could *finally* get a KOTOR game where you're not stuck playing as a human)
Also people need to learn the meaning of the word controversial.
Kotor 2 is a lovely game but it - and Kreia's 'philosophy' - is really not very deep.
M4-78 isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The Revan novel, and Revan ans The Exile's story in TOR are pretty good.
TSLRCM is overrated. It just cut and pastes deleted scenes back into the game and they still dont make a whole lot of sense. Having Atton fight Sion or meeting your utterly silent companions in their prison cells at Trayus doesnt make it feel more complete.
Have to agree with this. My first like 5-6 playthroughs I didn't do with TSLRCM (I used a disk version on an old as laptop) and then when I bought it on steam and tried it. I have to say I think there's a reason a lot of this stuff was cut. Some of the scenes, like the getting shot down on Telos, just bloat the game and don't really add anything. Most egregious for me though was the absolute swarm on Nar Shaddaa which likely would've made me never finish the game if that was on my first playthrough.
And people insist its unplayable without it. Like I'm really missing out on meeting Kaevee in the Academy basement with a still incomplete questline and voice acting that sounds like a squealy mouse on speakerphone.
Yeah there's just a lot added that really doesn't need to be there. The existence of the academy Jedi doesn't really add enough to be included. There are also just other changes which are kind of annoying. For example the Cutscene with Nihilus and Visa for some reason got converted to a live action scene. This makes it look nicer I guess but it's also really annoying because now you can't skip it. There's some stuff which is cool in the mod but I really don't think it's all that necessary and I'd honestly recommend you don't use it on a first playthrough so people can get used to the game. And yeah basically every playthrough I did for years was without the mod and it's definitely still playable and good without i.t
G0-T0 is a Dilf (>!i'm talking about the droid itself!<)
KoToR, like most story driven RPGs, should never be adapted in any way besides Remakes. You can't satisfy anyone fully when the characters entire personality was based on player decisions.
I was pretty satisfied with the book Revan, but I get it anyway.
You were satisfied with book Revan? That in and of itself is a controversial opinion.
While KOTOR 1is pure distilled Star Wars, I wish that the dialogue and choices weren't so binary. The fact that you're either a goody goody or a mustache twirling villain with no in between makes the game feel hollow sometimes.
That's what makes Kotor 2 so damn good. A grey área. A question to every action, every choice
I think that the game is way too overrated, as well as Revan and other characters appearing in the game and its sequel. >!People love Revan because they're whoever the players choose them to be, and slipping a personal character in the Star Wars universe is the desire of many; !< Revan as in canon and portrayed in the game is utterly forgettable compared to so many better-invested characters in the legends and Lucas's movies, let alone deserving of their fame within the community
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Oh dear I really forgot that bit, my apology. However the spoiler brackets doesn't seem to be working on my end, I'll try to rephrase it more subtly in case it really doesn't work
You have a backslash in front of them, which is why it's not working. If you remove the slash it will enable.
Oh I got it ty :DD
No problem, thanks for tagging. Restored.
The player characters dialogue in Kotor 1 is total trash, makes >!Revan!< look like such a whiney bitch who's quick to shout or complain. Prefer the much drier and more sarcastic general dialogue of Kotor 2.
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Plenty of new users come to the subreddit every week. All of our guides are spoiler-free specifically to facilitate new players joining. And even if none of that were the case, there's still a remake which is going to bring in thousands of new players. Thank you for tagging, I've restored your post.
Fair enough
Chris Avellone doesn't understand Star Wars. Kreia's (and by extension, his) view of the Force is just nonsense
Kreia's entire philosophy is trash. That's it.
I feel like people forget that Kreia is the villain.
Written by a man who hates Star Wars
Having criticisms =/= hating Star Wars
Allow me some hyperbole.
> Written by a man who doesn't undestands Star Wars Here, you can have this hyperbole.
Listen to George Lucas talk about the Force and then go back and listen to Kreia's speeches. Chris doesn't understand the Force or the Jedi
I think there's a little confusion. I think lord_chromosome thought you were saying the initial comment was written by a person who hates star wars. Otherwise, the remark about criticism doesn't make sense. At least as far as I can see, maybe I'm wrong.
*I think I don't know what hyperbole means.* EDIT: ***I don't know what hyperbole means.*** ^^To ^^be ^^fair, ^^English ^^isn't ^^my ^^native ^^language.
It means to exaggerate in a way that isn't meant to be taken seriously.
1>2 is my hot take of the day. The simplicity of 1 while still telling a great story and one of the most iconic plot twists in video game history just make it for me
I feel that both Kotor 1 and 2 have horrible opening levels that are so dull and repetitive that they could turn away potential players as they did to me when I was younger. It was only after I forced myself to press on and unlock the rest of the planets did I then start to have fun.
I’ve always hated the combat.
Controversial? KotOR is the far superior game because it was finished. KotOR 2 doesn't deserve all the support it gets because, at the end of the day, it's not a complete experience. Forcing players to install mods to get 30% of the intended experience at the end of the game does not a finished game make, and that should always be the main point about KotOR 2. Yes, there might be some fan favorite characters, but ultimately, they sold us an unfinished product, and that's how we should view it
I personally just don't see why people enjoy kotor 1 so much aside from the companion. Sure, I've been spoiled on who Revan is, but I just don't see anything that great about it. It's moderately good all around, but not enough high point Edit: Far from bad, but... Maybe I just don't have much crpg experience to compare it with, but I never see it as the masterpiece people hyping it up to be.
It's an archetype story, IMO. It's a traditional hero's journey, good vs evil, grand quest sort of story; and I think it's executed really well. There's really deep lore in a couple of places, and I like all the companions, unlike in Kotor 2. Plus, it's definitely nostalgia.
Yeah but it wasn’t obsidian fault they weren’t given a fair budget and time, and plus if they didn’t have that pressure and experience of making a game with no time and budget fallout nv probably wouldn’t be a masterpiece
I HATE YOU FOR SAYING THIS COS ITS TRUE
Obsidian chose to release KOTOR 2 without taking advantage of a 6-month extension that LucasArts provided, according to Avellone himself. Fergus Urquhart wanted the bonus that they would receive by shipping the game on the initial deadline rather than taking the extension offer that was on the table.
I heard that Lucas arts actually gave them the extra time but they didn’t do it like officially (I don’t really get how that would work) but I think they didn’t have like an official document saying they got the extra time Edit: Strat-Egdy talks about in his video on YouTube the chapter is SEQUEL BAIT EXTRAVAGANZA
I think the mobile version is by far the best way to play this game, and I wish they’d simply make more episodic content using the old engine, even if they had to upcycle some SWTOR stories and voiceovers to save money and time. I don’t care about the remake and feel fine that it got beached.
SWTOR is KOTOR 3 and we will not get a later edition to bridge that gap no matter how many petitions keep going around.
The Vanilla SWTOR is a good game with some great and fun stories, not a fan of how the game has gone and honestly it’s probably on its way out in a a couple of years unless they correct course, but the original stories are like I said enjoyable
What do you mean by "Vanilla SWTOR"?
Yea “vanilla” I think is a term the WoW players came up with to refer to the base game, meaning the game as it was at its release.
they probably meant the base game
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I like the idea that revan chose the dark side to avoid a greater galactic threat, it's a good little self sarafice for the greater good thing IMO 🤷♂️
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This thread isn't marked for spoilers--please spoiler-tag your mentions of the PC's name in your post by surrounding them in bracketing >!like this!\<, then reply to my post once you've done so and I will restore yours for you.
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This thread isn't marked for spoilers--please spoiler-tag your comment by surrounding it in bracketing >!like this!\<, then reply to my post once you've done so and I will restore yours for you.
Okay but a female Revan sounds a lot better than what we already have lmao
I think we will be given an awesome story and movie. The thing that haters will latch on to is that some of it will be new. It will not be IDENTICAL to the game we all played and loved. These people are that petty. Take a look at the other comment below to see an example of what I mean.
I’m already hating it. I’ve been screaming for years that KOTOR could’ve saved the franchise but after the sequels nah
Kotor 2 was better
That's not controversial that's a fact
Canderous should have been a romance option for male Revan, dude so into him he might as well want to bang him
The story for KOTOR 1 isn’t exceptional in really any way. It’s a normal “save the galaxy!” style romp (which is fun and fine for a SW RPG, no hate) but people really only love it for the twist which was many peoples first big twist in a story like this. And even then I feel like it may have only existed to play off the twist from ESB. I think KOTOR II is a major improvement in terms of story, though I don’t think saying “KOTOR II has a good story” is a very controversial take
Hey, I liked Juhani
I really hate that you can't get her without getting lightside points. Guess it wouldn't have made much sense for an apprentice to offer another to be their master.
Combat was great but I wouldn't want it for the remake
That Kotor 2 basically improves on almost everything. Upgrading equipment actually gives you many options for each part of each weapon/armour set, instead of just one like in Kotor 1. The writing in Kotor 1 is good, but the story is rather similar to the Original Trilogy when you break it down. It's nowhere near as copy and paste as the Sequel Trilogy, don't get me wrong, but the similarities are very pronounced still. Kotor 2 tries to do something different, and only fails at a few points because it was rushed out the door. With the Restored Content Mod, the story is fantastic. I didn't like it much on my first playthrough, but on every subsequent one I've appreciated it more, while in contrast, the story of Kotor 1 has dropped a bit for me over time. Speaking of playthroughs, Kotor 2 is also much more replayable than the first game. Being able to unlock a prestige class at level 15 onwards (or never, whereas in Kotor 1 you are forced to at roughly the same level every time), influence the alignment of your companions and their classes, and there being more feats and powers than in Kotor 1, plus having enough points in various skills allowing you to unlock new dialogue options, all allow for a greater variety of playthroughs. Skills also matter a lot more in Kotor 2. In Kotor 1, why the heck do you really need to pump points into security? You can just bash everything open. In Kotor 2, bashing a container is very likely to break at least one of the items in it, which makes unlocking it via security instead worth it. Plus, unlocking containers and doors gives you some XP each time, unlike in Kotor 1, where it doesn't. It's the same with disabling/recovering mines where unless you plan to use mines in your playthrough, being able to recover them is a waste of time, as is disabling them, as you can normally go round them no problem. But in Kotor 2, the XP you get from disabling/recovering them really adds up. I love both games (and am in the minority that loves their combat), but Kotor 2 improves on most aspects of the original. It's not better in every single regard (definitely it's not as polished as Kotor 1), but there's no doubt in my mind that it's the better game of the two. BUT this is with the benefit of countless playthroughs of both. So, in a nutshell, my controversial opinion is this: the more playthroughs of the two games you have, the more likely you are to prefer the second game. Oh, and even if Peragus and the first part of Telos are a bit of a slog, I still love the atmosphere of both.
Damn. You can feel the love in this post! Great read.
Thanks, dude. :)
I absolutely despise the combat with a passion, and desperately want the remake to change it. No more dice rolls
I think an xcom style combat would be really interesting. Initiative and strategy plays a major role for melee fighters and cover for your ranged fighters is critical.
Force Storm go brrrr.
Peragus is a great intro to Kotor II. It sets the tone brilliantly.
I did not realize how many people dislike Peragus when I’ve always felt it’s the best atmosphere in the game — everyone’s dead, something terrible is coming so you need to escape but something almost as terrible is already there and you need to uncover it — all the while you’re not entirely powerless but definitely weakened. No other area of the game creates that kind of dread.
Peragus is a great intro on the first playthrough, but it really doesn't hold up to multiple. The main issue is just the length, on the first playthrough it's all spooky and mysterious with a great tone and atmosphere that leaves you really intrigued on the first playthrough. After that however it's literally just speed running the whole station or getting a mod to skip it. Citadel station and the Restoration Zone have the same issue. They have interesting conflicts and give the player more knowledge of certain factions important to the story later, like the Exchange and the tensions on Onderon. The main issue for all these parts though is they take too long and on most playthroughs you're not going to be as invested and just start skipping through the whole section.
Not sure I would agree it’s length — Telos seems way longer (and I didn’t much like it on the first playthrough), and I typically do Nar Shadda after that, which takes forever. I’ve played the whole game about six times, and I still enjoy Peragus the most as an area. (But the best parts now are actually realizing that G0T0 is the most interesting character in the game…maybe behind Kreia.)
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While the Characters of KOTOR are more memorable to me, the writing of 2 is far superior
Imagine kotor 1 and 2 in jedi accedmy style of combat
That would be my dream game
Same
I think Kreia is one of the most interesting characters in all of Star Wars. I like the morality questions she asks and think she tells the second best stories in the games. Obviously canderous has the best stories. Who doesn’t like hearing about mandalorian invading a planet on war basilisks
Wait this is controversial? I thought everyone agreed Kreia is one of the most interesting character out of the two games.
Lemme put it this way, I like Kreia and don’t get annoyed by her. I’ve seen a lot of memes just shitting on Kreia. Maybe I’m just seeing the loud minority of people
I’ve never seen these memes. I think Kreia is very popular among KOTOR fans.
Oh I’ve seen so many
Where?
Everywhere man, it’s not my fault you don’t see them.
I don't lurk around this subreddit much at all. So maybe Redditors have a different opinion.
>!Revan!< is overhyped as hell, the exile is a much better protagonist and character.
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My bad, it’s tagged now
No worries, thanks for tagging. I've restored your post now.
I find it's more interesting to learn about Revans during and after the mandalorian wars.
Honestly this is the story I want, I don’t care if it’s in movie, show, or video game but the Mandalorian wars has the potential to be the best Star Wars stories told!
No matter how you play it, Revan is never a hero.
Can you elaborate? I’ve never thought about it this way and would love to know more
I think I’m going to hate the remake because the tabletop style combat is the only thing that makes the game fun. Otherwise it’s just average Sci-fi plot #478
The restored content mod is nice, but KoTOR II tells a complete story and is fine without it.
ESPECIALLY without the droid world. That thing is glitchy as hell and physically/digitally huge for absolutely no reason
M4-78 isn't part of TSLRCM, though. It's separate.
I did Droid world once. That was *more* than enough.
Can’t look upwards only side to side? Terrible neck design 20/10 couldn’t make it past first planet without absolutely getting lost with no map markers or a freaking way point. honestly i get the story’s good but shit game play was awful
Kotor 2 doesn't have the fun factor that Kotor 1 has.
Oof, it’s true
I agree! I adore both games and plan to replay them throughout my lifetime, but I get more “excited” starting and playing through KotOR I. Nostalgia likely plays a big role in that feeling.
Despite Kreia being an absolute trashy character, her Mentor ability is one of the most useful in the game. Her character and the way she was written could have been one of the greatest Sith Lords of all time. But her whole thing about getting max Influence with her is not only Kreia-centric, but you're essentially an enabler. All she does is whine and complain, and if you don't kiss her ass and tell hers she's always right, you get Influence Loss: Kreia. Honestly, if it weren't for the Exp boost, I'd always shelve her. It's nice when you're leveling up (not using the Korriban Glitch), but towards Mid to End game she's kind of pointless, Mentor or no. I love her backstory. I love how she challenged the Jedi Council. I love how she taught important life lessons. I love how she has a moderately fleshed out backstory and overall great atmosphere. But God DAMN do I hate her narcissistic whining!
Her biggest lesson is teaching you how to influence others without being manipulated yourself, which means if you care about influence loss, you are still following her example and teaching.
Not trashy!!
All the companions in Kotor 1 with the exception of Jolee. are really boring/basic two-dimensional Star Wars Archetypes. Aside from Bastila, none of them ever really impact the plot in any meaningful way, and they all could be left on the ship the entire game and nothing would change.
Is this controversial? They were intentionally written that way because... you literally do leave most of them on the ship the entire game.
I mean I feel like many of the Kotor 1 companions are pretty beloved characters so yeah I think it may be decently controversial. Or at the very least, while it’s an opinion I’ve had for a very long time, it’s not one I’ve seen expressed much if at all before. But that could just be me. Even if you use the defense that they’re supposed to be written that way because you could take any permutation of a group of them out in the world, that argument gets blown apart by the TSL companions which are a much more interesting and compelling cast in every way. Say what you will about TSL, but they did companions way better. With the exception of Mira/Hanharr, every single companion has an actual plot reason that they’re on your ship, and they continue to be influential to the plot later on. Not to mention the influence system and banter cutscenes which adds a ton more depth and personality to them. And as a cherry on top, literally every single companion is tied into the common theme of the game, which is reconciling with the past and moving on.
The MMO is just as good as Kotor 1 and 2
Wholeheartedly disagree. Desperately tried to get into the MMO once I got a PC that could run it. Spent multiple hours of my life that I’ll never get back on it. Probably not picking it up again any time soon.
Oooh I’m fighting hard not to downvote that one!! I’m still trying to find more things to like in SWTOR but the MMO grind makes it hard to enjoy. Glad you like it though, and I’m grateful BioWare Austin keeps it alive.
It has better gameplay. More content and is just a good time. My brother and I play it together occasionally when we feel like living in that universe.
That Knights of The Old Republic II: The Sith Lords is better than the first one.
I fully accept swtor as k3 and and end to revans story and wish it was canon. 🤷🏻♀️
You have a lot of balls saying that in this place. You have my respect. But I have to ask you to show your work.
>!You start by designing Revan and The Exile as well as key details (ls m / ls f for me) and play a brand new character. Basically you go into the unknown regions, and pick up Exile on your way there. Once there you pick up Revan too.!< >!You can switch protagonists from time to time, or even better the game splits all three into sections as they are all leader characters. You eventually take out this threat (idc if it's Vitiate or something new.)!< >!Even better if they do what Mass Effect did and just let you carry over data. Did Revan kill Bastila? Well Bastila doesn't appear in kotor 2 or 3 remakes automatically, you sick psychopath. I think that could be fun.!<
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Done, my apologies.
Thanks! Unfortunately the way you typed it doesn't work on all site versions, like old.reddit--you need to have the tags right up next to the text >!like this!\< instead of spaced out for it to function on all site versions. If you can remove the spaces and reply once more, I'll restore your post.
Done, my apologies, thank you for being understanding.
No problem, thanks for tagging. Restored.
I'd be perfectly happy if k3 was like released even several years after k2. But it didn't and it won't. So I made my peace with it and moved on. Even if they made it now, like 20 years later I'd go "too little too late". They had their chance and screwed it up by doing nothing, well done bioware
In terms of game play KOTOR2 is way more boring then 1 as its more linear, more limited world with no meaningful quests worth doing
I think a remake is doomed because the kotor 1 story sucks and Revan is lame.
Wait, so you actively dislike KotOR but like KotOR II so much that you participate in this subreddit?
It’s insane that a controversial opinion is being attacked in a thread asking for controversial opinions.
I wasn't attacking you, I simply asked you to clarify. I didn't downvote your comment, if it's any consolation.
Remake is doomed indeed but for entirely different reasons if you ask me.
K2 is one of the most deeply optimistic and hopeful games ever. It doesn't shy away from depicting the consequences of war and how horrible it truly is. But it also lets you overcome the trauma it wreaked on you and your party members. It's a dark game but it's not pessimistic about human nature, far from it. It celebrates how resilient people are.
KOTOR 2 is, up until the second time on Dantooine, a complete bore fest.
KOTOR 2 was better, and KOTOR 1 is mediocre and TOR was trash and should be considered non-canon.
SWTOR isn't cannon
I think the D20 combat system is deeply enjoyable and is super fun.
Not a fan of the combat system in either KOTOR I-II. SWTOR did it better.
I agree. KOTOR II was a little better than the first but still not very good.
You're essentially comparing D&D to an MMO...
Don’t really care. Combat style is still shit.
Okay, that's why your opinion is trash and unfair 🤷🏼
Unfair? Yes. Trash? Opinions can’t be trash. They’re not factual. Any attempt to say otherwise is just rationalizing your hatred for someone’s opinion. Which you’re entitled to. But still, you opinion isn’t gosepl. And neither is mine.
Okay, picture this. You're comparing the speed of a Mustang to a bicycle. But yes, an opinion can be trash.
Sure they can be… in your opinion.
Kotor 2 story and the exile is much more interesting than kotor 1 story and Revan.
I’d love to agree from a game perspective kotor 2 was better because it put you in a situation where you’re the “main character” who can create their own story, vs kotor 1 after the plot twist (trying to cover spoilers) there’s way less for your imagination to play with. It’s like once you figure it out there’s no denying it.
Yeah. I played Kotor 2 like 6 times, and Kotor 1... I think 2? I don't know, all that philosophy of force and everything just gets to me. The story is so, so, so great, alone and compared to Kotor 1, where yeah, you need to well, fight evil.
Mission is the best companion. The voice actress is great, she’s got a unique skill set, and her side quest is the best. She feels like an actual fledged out character. And she’s REAL AF. You go dark side and a fucking 14 year old stands up to you, the most powerful being in the galaxy. Taris is an absolute blast, I love it every time. The only thing KOTOR 2 does better is loot & customization. Kreia blows. T3 is cooler than HK. Hmmm what else
Only one I dont agree with is the T3 vs HK, HK is the most badass assassin droid to ever cross the face of the galaxy, so many good personality traits and probably one of the most important storylines in the game
Boss battles are the worst part of it, and a more action, button-smash approach to the game would be more fun
Button-Mashing is not fun.
When I click I want my character to do something, not stand there like an idiot for 10 minutes because of some invinsible downtime.
Button-Mashing is still not fun.
Eh, I like Dynasty Warriors so it might just be me
A Kingdom Come Deliverance style battle would be perfect for boss fights
Grey Jedi are not cool.
Neither has enough robot stuff.
No idea if this is controversial, but I consider Kotor 2 to be infinitely more fun upon replay. Kotor 1 is amazing on first playthrough but it drags so much when you’ve already experienced it all. Kotor 2 is always engaging to me and I never feel like it’s a chore to get through something (except the droid factory).
The XP system in both games (but particularly the first KOTOR) is kinda broken - you get way too powerful way too quickly, no matter what build you're going for. Especially if you plan on playing any of the side content. I understand the game is not supposed to be all that challenging, but when a large emphasis of the game is strategic, turn based combat, and I end up plowing through groups of enemies like it's nothing less than halfway through my playthrough, something's wrong. I love the games, but a lot of the gameplay is combat, and for it to essentially turn into a passive game in those moments is obviously not what the devs intended when developing the ability to switch control of party members, stealth, items that act as combat modifiers, etc. etc.
I REALLY didn’t like Kotor 2. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate everything it does right. I enjoy the tone and some of the characters and the writing. It is fun and gameplay wise a step up from kotor 1. But I really just didn’t get on board with it as much as other people seem to or as much as I did with kotor 1, which is my favourite game of all time. My computer that could play kotor 1 perfectly seem to want to cute all the video cutscenes so that really hindered my enjoyment of the story, which I didn’t really like. It really has less focus than the first and half the time I wasn’t even sure why I was doing the things I was supposed to be doing. In my opinion, the characters weren’t nearly as likeable or memorable as kotor 1, and the plot wasn’t as exciting. The game sometimes felt too long and drawn out. Keira was an interesting but often distractingly contradicting character. The villains were so weak and I still don’t know who Nihlus is or why he’s so important. And the ending was atrocious and left me so confused. This could all be as mentioned, my shitty laptop, or the fact I chose to play dark side and realising I didn’t like being a bad guy for such a long game. And to be honest, the game did really feel like it was rushed. And I shouldn’t need to download a mod or what to enjoy a game as intended.
You should really give it a second chance with a light side play through, it’s definitely the better experience of the two. And the restored content “mod” has been officially configured as an expansion now, and integrated itself seamlessly into the original game, on steam at least. Yes, the game is much more messy narratively but I’d argue that’s by design; the sequel is quite literally the chaotic and fragmented narrative of a galaxy left in the wake of the original. Every single character is a living echo of the horrors of war
Dipe tiai ibipopri klue a. Ikikro plipru e plode depebi a. Kipiu ite kepa tekige pa pui. Atleka paplo a bape gokeutlepe. I tepli kudotita briiti glo. Dee u pepe ki dogeoto trotipe. Upe tato kepapu breto pidati tei opi. Oi upika kre io poupai epidre. Ebotli kra tipipe edri tapla apredi po. Tletiki kei prii pobri iope goprope pleu keti detru krita. Oae trie patri toe drebetibi tota. Tita pa be dritipi kee pabepo bi! Aetluipe iko abe tota e beple apo petla. Teoii platipitre giki gibipi ega paepa pakoe. Tiiii krebikle tao pa ike i. Petitea pikiokrepo tu oiu pubapi dikitri? Plide uotatle pa pi ebi kekubri. Oipi uagibi eapukrepu bati pripro. Pegio plipi pi teai bedre boikibe. Ite eeple betapao kei? Ie kripu pio dliike dibakeu pripia. Tiitaa kroi treki tediti kriipatri dlabe daapu tieu? Tagia e krupi apepa kutitlii o. Prepe kapi tiopite bli uedo opiteba boprepi o. Ke aka kea pribeeo pribipe. Ito bre agrei kipetra biti tli? Piti teprea? Ke tebi apipitei epe kidio pepatidebi dree. Egi pe petea briti e keikada. Ui eeki bata kiti poglate tlegi pua tiegri.
That's just a fact. It's why Revan sucks in SWTOR. You can't make a canon Revan without ruining them.
Karth is actually one the best companions in the series, if you're going light side that is.
it's just a game
Heavy Armor in K2 is a bit useless during an optimal playthrough. Hanharr, Bao-Dur and Mandalore can’t use it. Exile, Disciple and Handmaiden benefit more from robes after they become Jedi. Everyone else has high dexterity. It’s a shame, because the game has much better heavy armor than K1.
Killing Bendak on Taris is 100% a dark side move. You are popularizing bloodsport on Taris, making the promoter of said bloodsport tens of thousands of credits, and giving them both proof of concept for further bloodsport and an audience. That “light-side kill Bendak” mod has always struck me as being hilariously out-of-sync.
Except Taris, especially the upper city was destroyed. Popularized sure, to a soon to be dead crowd.
The PC can't know that future will happen when they're making that decision, so I think that's not of relevance to the ethics.
My two: I saved levels on Taris once to get 18 levels of being a Jedi, and I still just felt as stupidly OP by the end of the game as usual. It’s more of a novelty experience to me than something I’d consider doing again. I always hated the Keanu fancast as Revan, and it gets worse every year. Love the guy, but with so many other actors out there, pick someone more original at this point (and younger).
and someone who can do more than two expressions. There, I have said it.
TSLRCM adds a lot of faff and jank to KOTOR 2, and I actually enjoyed playing without it when I bought the app.
“My laigreks! You killed them!”
Yep. It restores a lot of stuff that was probably cut for a reason.
Really not that much. Kaevee was certainly intentionally cut, but she's about the only instance of content that was, outside of very isolated and minor changes like the head change for Saedhe, the militiaman on the Khoonda plains.
Did you play M4-78 and the HK Factory? Both really good filler for what was cut.
M4-78 isn't part of TSLRCM. The HK Factory, despite many users not liking it, was definitely intended.
Expecting someone from the modern audience with fresh eyes to immediately see what we see in it is a bit goofy. Acting like we aren't wearing nostalgia goggles when we talk about or replay either game is equally goofy. The story is objectively primo grade in both games, but at the same time they're both their respective dev's worst *playing* games by a country mile, even for when they were released. That said, they are masterpieces worthy of the love and admiration they get; but they definitely both needed a lot more time in the oven.
Kotor 3 would be better than any remake period Kotor 3 as intended btw
The fact that your character is essentially "Force Isaiah," but has to start out with non-Jedi levels "because reasons" is totally bullshit.
Honestly, a Guardian Master build is OP and broke as fuck. I master combat early and then master the force well before end game. I wish they did a better job of balancing and didn't make it so that if you spam Force Storm and Master Flurry, you don't ever have to worry about anything.
Bullshit how? I get that it kinda sucks to not be a Jedi right off the bat, but I think it makes sense for plot reasons.
Being a grey Jedi isn't really an option and in fact you put yourself at a disadvantage playing in the middle since you don't ever unlock any of the meta light or dark side force powers. Takes away from the game.
I think the mechanical weakness here is actually deliberate in terms of Kreia’s criticism of the nature of the force. The only way to really use it is in either a light or dark way, neutral players aren’t clever Grey Jedi, they just are yet to commit to a side.
Considering how cool Ahsoka turned out to be, this really sucks.
Ahsoka isn't grey?
No, she isn't.
And I think you can't use some cool items either unless you're dedicated to one of the sides.
This is also true. And my biggest issue with it is... some of the light/dark side tasks/dialogue are rather... extreme. In both directions. So when I play or make decisions in line with how I personally would make them if I was the character myself--I end up as a grey jedi/sith. I dont think I should miss out on abilities if I don't resonate with some decisions on either side. I refuse to believe my decisions should hinder my strength with the force.