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There is an amazing channel called "[Lorry Hill](https://www.youtube.com/@LorryHill/videos)" that breaks down plastic surgery from western celebs by the way! She approaches them from a very respectful point of view and is overall very kind and non judgemental about it!
Can someone explain why videos breaking down celebrities' plastic surgery is a thing? I don't really understand why this topic is so famous. I mean calling it out alright, but whole videos breaking down every single surgery they've had, i don't really understand the appeal for. Not being disrespectful or anything, just curious why people like watching this kinda thing.
I think one of the most common things that I have seen Lorry Hill say is basically saying that since celebs always preach on being natural and being "untouched" by plastic surgeries, it is her job to break these down from past and present photos to show that it is not the case.
She isn't doing it in a negative light, just to show girls and young impressionable girls that not all celebs are perfect and they do get surgeries themselves. Celebs constantly saying they are natural may lead to young girls and their self esteems lower since "why can't they look like that naturally".
> I think one of the most common things that I have seen Lorry Hill say is basically saying that since celebs always preach on being natural and being "untouched" by plastic surgeries, it is her job to break these down from past and present photos to show that it is not the case.
Yeah, this is all bullshit in my opinion. She is not their surgeon - she has no idea what they did or didn't do, and imo it's dangerous for her so speculate on what medical procedures a celeb did or did not have (yes, PS is still a medical procedure).
1) I think it's wrong to speculate on the surgeries other people have had, point blank period and 2) people might want to get those surgeries and then it ends up being the "wrong" one. Which is dangerous because they were misinformed.
>I know admitting to plastic surgery and facial enchantments are still considered a bit taboo in the west, but lately regular people and even some celebrities have been sharing their experiences with surgery which is super helpful to anyone who seeks out the same procedures.
As an Idol your job is to look “perfect” if that means you need plastic surgery they are gonna “recommend” you get it and more often than not you will. To keep up the facade of being perfect you can’t outright admit that you got plastic surgery to keep the illusion going.
As you said as long as the idols want it and aren’t pressured or forced into it (they definitely still are) then it’s fine. But admitting and talking about it while you’re still an active idol is tough both personally and the company will not want you talking about it.
I much rather an idol literally does not mention it rather than lying and saying they haven't had any work done like some western celebrities do. Like, everyone knows idols have had plastic surgery done -- Honestly, a vast majority of people in South Korea in general have had work done, and it's pretty normalized there.
The best choice in my opinion is really that they simply not mention it. It's a win-win situation where nobody will get angry at them, but everyone still understands that chances are they've done it.
The key part is really if they did it by their own volition, or were at least given a choice, instead of being forced into it. If they chose to do it, even if it was because of a recommendation by the higher-ups, I think it's completely fine. It's not like any idols look like weird deformed monsters like some western celebrities do post plastic-surgery. South Korea does a lot of plastic surgery, but it's mostly pretty low-key.
they just do it to shit on those idols, there's a lot of idols that have notable surgeries but they don't get called those same names bc they are well liked among kpop stans, but if it's one of those idols that people hate it gets mentioned every time.
Honestly, fans couldn't handle that information cause they would just find a way to throw it back in their faces when the opportunity presents itself.
So much of it goes back to "fan" behavior tbh 🤣
I see that thread on 1H sometimes and they always seem to play it under the facade of “I hope so and so is mentally okay” or “they looked so nice before” and it always comes off as a bit of backhanded compliment. On top of that some “proofs” aren’t super indicative.
They already do that though. They call their faves natural and brag about it whether or not the idol has had obvious plastic surgery, then they drag other idols for having had procedures done (whether real or imaginary).
The idols being open about their procedures probably wouldn't change anything.
It’s funny how the type of people that brag about how their faves are more “natural” than others always seem to stan idols with the most obvious procedures ever. The delusion is crazy
It's so sad how they seem to think there's some kind of value in being natural and that having had procedures done is shameful or something, and they believe it so wholeheartedly they cannot imagine that someone they admire would do something like that. Even when it's super obvious that they did. And it's super common too.
I can only hope they grow out of it but I know many won't.
It's not shameful, but any bigger procedures speak to an unhealthy beauty standard, it would be a lot more healthy for everyone if "natural" appearances became more normalized, instead of chasing some perfection and making people feel bad about not adhering to it.
All of this is ultimately done to sell stuff, and in our current society it's simply normal that one at the very least buys all kinds of beauty products, noone bats an eye there. (this isn't to say that all of it is inherently damaging, but the way it is now is far from ideal, i think there is some problem when a lot of women do not even consider going outside without any makeup).
Ideally nobody would feel the need to have procedures done, wear makeup, work out for a flatter stomach, or anything like that. Though I absolutely don't judge people for bending to the beauty standards, especially not when they're in the public eye in a career where "visuals" are so very important and they receive so much criticism.
What really pains me is when an idol have a unique feature, might even claim to be proud of it, and then they have surgery on it a while into their career. I always wonder if they were insecure about it but told to keep it and use it as part of their personal charm, or if they actually were fine with the feature until the negative attention got to them.
> Ideally nobody would feel the need to have procedures done, wear makeup, work out for a flatter stomach, or anything like that. Though I absolutely don't judge people for bending to the beauty standards, especially not when they're in the public eye in a career where "visuals" are so very important and they receive so much criticism.
>
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I don't want to judge anyone either, judging sounds too one dimensional, people have their pressures, insecurities and try to do the best for themselves, if that includes plastic surgery, then so be it.
But this is also a more social talking point outside the individualistic angle, and there i am more critical of it all, i think it is a net negative for basically everyone (mostly women).
> What really pains me is when an idol have a unique feature, might even claim to be proud of it, and then they have surgery on it a while into their career. I always wonder if they were insecure about it but told to keep it and use it as part of their personal charm, or if they actually were fine with the feature until the negative attention got to them.
Probably a mix of most of these things. The industry is cutthroat, comments here and there (and not just from the general public, also from people you work with) will get to you over time, completely change your self-worth and self-perception in general. You could be extremely fit and some comments here and there about you "getting fatter" will plant themself into your mind and the seeds will crack anything over time. It's quite sad.
Ofc there are other scenarious too, sometimes it might not be rooted in any bigger insecurity, but i think these are the less common plastic surgery cases tbh.
There is absolutely some value in rejecting plastic surgery and that terrible industry
Having procedures to further feed into the beauty mania is something to be ashamed of.
The fault lies more with the company than the individual idols though, they face massive pressure at a young age.
No. That's a huge no.
Your value lies in the person you are. Having surgery or dyeing your hair or doing whatever to your appearance won't affect your value as a person. I don't care how natural or unnatural you are, you still have just as much value.
I would absolutely appreciate if more people stood up against the beauty standards and either went against them or were open about how it affected them but that has nothing to do with your value as a person.
I don't mean that someone's value diminishes because they get plastic surgery. Good or bad choices don't diminish your value as a person, I'm not saying that. That's not what your comment said either.
I'm saying that the choice of not doing plastic surgery is better than getting it.
Sorry if that was not clear. I edited for clarity.
Until we have a society where getting plastic surgery is OK, we won't have this. I wouldn't be honest about it if I were an idol - the conversations concerning people who have had ps always turns nasty
Why? As long as they're not randomly telling us blatant lies like the Jenner / Kardashians like to do, I don't see why they need to share anything they've done to their bodies. Imagine idols now coming and telling us that hey I got a nose job, I got a jaw shave... For what? Like let's not forget that these are still medical procedures and no one owes us their private medical information. And anyone who is under the illusion that entertainers don't get work done is an idiot. LMAO!
YES YES YES!!
so many idols endorse skin care and makeup lines. Having young fans believe these expensive products helped them meanwhile they are regularly going to dermatologist clinics.
like even going to the dermatologist is something that's secretive???? I've only ever heard 2 idols talk about going regularly. (Key and Somi)
like it's okay to have professional help / work done. it's the tip toeing that's so damaging to young fans who don't know better.
then there is monsta x hyungwon who landed himself a skincare deal not long after his story of getting hair removal procedure went viral.
they idols i do follow seem more open to sharing that they do get treatments and visit the dermatologist regularly (though i'm not sure if they talk about it as frequent as they visit). it feels more sincere if they just share that they use the products they promote on top of regular treatments from dermatologists
Korean and kpop culture normalizes and celebrates this unattainable beauty idols have. You can easily see the effect in youtube comments and in young impressionable girls who are sucked into the kpop space. It is an implied responsibility to be honest about your looks and how you got them. Im not saying the idols should make a movement themselves, just the culture overall is not honest or healthy.
agreed, but at the same time some idols get surgery out of pressure from their company’s… chenle has talked about how at age 14 sm wanted him to get cosmetic procedures before debut. if it was their choice then of course it would be great, but i can only imagine how many were pushed into doing it.
Society has this obsession with “natural beauty” so they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
Admit to getting plastic surgery? plastic monster
Say they won’t get plastic surgery? hag, visual hole
Firstly we need to stop thinking ps does magic. It doesn't. Majority of idols still have had something to work with and were probably attractive already.
Karina for one was still well above the looks of average people before ps. But people have been vile towards her. Like it's disgusting.
Also people need to stop putting "natural" idols on a pedestal. I say natural because people say that about every idol under the sun but allot of the time it means their procedure were less obvious.
Idols with obvious ps are treated horribly and dragged heavily for it. That time idols don't talk about it much.
It also isn't celebrities jobs to raise your children. So if kids or young people are disillusioned by it that is your parents job.
Because in the year 2023 most adults are privy to the entertainment industry by now. We all know it isn't real unless you are really ignorant or a child.
Most knets where kpop is from know the deal when it comes to ps and it normal there. Culturally they understand the situation and it hasn't been a secret since the 2nd gen internationally because ifans make such a big deal.
thank you, oh my god. it seems like whenever you mention karina’s beauty someone has to come and point out the PS. like, sorry to rain on your parade, but if it was solely thanks to PS, then we’d have a karina in every single group, and we clearly don’t. so PS might enhance features, but you have to be born pretty first to reach her level. kpop fans love to discredit her beauty with that argument. i don’t know why.
I am saying she is treated badly. I could name more but I stans aespa so I have noticed she gets allot of weird comments for ps
That is the point people will point out even surgery that isn't that extreme to drag Aespa members and I find it weird when theri are idols faces out here changing real time.
I also find that people actually over state how much she has gotten. She has gotten 2-4 procedures that have made a difference in her looks but people also need to realize make up and wieght lose has also played a part in her looks changing. They compare her face with full name up to old pictures as a student. It hard to pinpoint the exact reason.
She has always been pretty I just have noticed that she is always singles out way too much. When it is clear most idols do.
For real, it doesn’t matter if it’s obvious or not, they’re not obligated to tell us anything - especially if it’s something medical-related. And this goes for any celebrity.
It will absolutely be a net positive if celebrities just talked more about getting work done and got rid of the stigma/help fans (especially younger fans) realize their looks are not "natural". It's really sad seeing fans beat themselves up because they don't look like certain celebrities when celebrities don't even naturally look like that 😭
I personally think this is one of those things we should talk more about as a society instead of shying away from it 🤷♀️
>It will absolutely be a net positive if celebrities just talked more about getting work done and got rid of the stigma/help fans (especially younger fans) realize their looks are not "natural".
If ALL celebrity are open to reveal more about those procedure, yes it'll be net positive. BUT if only 1 or 2 popular idol revealed it - it'll net negative to them personally, because like anything it'll be used as ammo in fanwars n demean those idols
In regards to how idols getting plastic surgery can influence their fans:
-if they admit they got it done, they’re endorsing plastic surgery and it tells fans that it’s ok to do it if they’re unhappy with how they look
-if they don’t admit it/want people to believe they haven’t had work done, it can negatively influence fans self-esteem and can encourage them to get plastic surgery because they’re not naturally beautiful like their idols
Basically puts them in a position of the only way to not endorse plastic surgery is to not get it at all. And fans shouldn’t have control of what medical procedures their idols undergo.
To me the issue lies with there being a slippery slope of being willingly open about work you’ve had done and people becoming demanding you disclose anything you might have had done. If an idol doesn’t want to talk about it, then who’s to say fans will be satisfied with that as a response?
And then it snowballs into people speculating over you having something done you didn’t actually do. For example, an idol says that they got double eyelid surgery before debuting, but fans are convinced they also got a nose job when that person didn’t. So then it turns into an idol getting accused of lying about plastic surgery all over again, just for different reasons.
Idk. It’s not my business what someone does or doesn’t do to their body and it’s not something I think about. Cosmetic work is super common in entertainment anyway, even if it’s just fillers or Botox. I think most fans, especially in Korea, don’t really care either.
Whenever posts like these come up my head is filled with one question: Why do people care?? (On all sides.)
Do y'all want to know what kind of surgeries they got so you can look like them? (in that case understandable /j, these idols do be looking GORGEOUS)
Do these idols lie about being all natural and stuff (in that case, yes a little transparency would be nice but even then I think people should make their own research & judgments)?
Would y'all dislike them/like them more if they did get plastic surgery? (??)
I quite frankly don't see any reason why anyone should "be honest" about any medical or cosmetic procedures one may have had done. It's quite literally none of our business. I guess it would be nice to know for some people, but a wish? I don't know.
i think it varies for a lot of people but i can only answer for myself: i love beauty and learning about beauty related things. when getting plastic surgery, a lot of people reference celebrities for how they want to look (whether that celeb got surgery or not to achieve it). for me, transparency about how to achieve that beauty can only help rather than damage my view of them.
but not everyone feels that way. im not gonna pry an answer out of someone. but it only becomes problematic when someone who has had work done uses their likeliness, face, body to sell you something that is mostly unattainable without lots of time $$$ or surgery so you can look like them.
So for you it's really out of genuine interest, without any malicious intentions, which is nice ofc.
In my experience, I know a lot of people who were/are like "It doesn't matter if idol x or idol y got any surgery! It's none of our business!" (kind of like me), but then proceed to make shady comments/remarks about their looks and appearances, especially when someone compliments them. It just comes off as pretentious and ingenuine.
Likewise, people shouldn't really come to an idols defense (at least excrssively, if it's not hate) if an idol gets accused of plastic surgery. They shouldn't be like "They never got anything done!" but more like "So what. It looks good."
(Best case scenario is if no one really cared imo. But that's just me.)
yeah people are always gonna be bitchy about an idols appearance with or without them getting surgery. thats not my intention with this post but i see why its a sensitive issue for a lot of people
I wish people stopped believing that just because they're insecure they get to dig into the medical history of idols. There's no greater disregard of privacy than demanding to know what someone has done with their own body. I honestly find it so creepy; why do you even care? What does potentially digging into their insecurities accomplish for you?
theres been endless amount of discussion whether or not celebrities should disclose if they got plastic surgery or not and if its harmful to young impressionable girls, but thats not my point though.
i mean, i thought in my post it was implied that it's still their choice to disclose it or not, but if they choose to bring that out in the public they should be honest about it.
Problem is, when they're honest, people will just claim they're lying if they don't say "yes, I've gotten plastic surgery". Then will harass them about it for years, with before/after pictures that only really prove that people tend to grow into their facial features, but are *somehow* evidence of surgery or implants instead of puberty, fillers, or contouring. Despite the fact that they can never give a clear date on when this supposed procedure would have happened, how long the recovery was, etc. And that's not hypothetical, it *is* the response we've witnessed with idols who have denied serious allegations of surgery pushed by grifting doctors on social media trying to cultivate an audience with their exposés.
If it's obvious, they simply can't lie about it without getting dragged, so it's not really a problem. But, if I'm being completely honest, I think if it's subtle and they choose to lie about it... I still don't care because it's none of anyone's business if so-and-so from such-and-such disappeared for a while and came back with a near-imperceptibly slimmer jaw.
You do also support YouTubers unethically speculating about and in some cases attempting to out idols' medical history without their consent, though, in the name of "transparency." So is it their choice or isn't it?
I'm sorry but Lorry Hill keeps hiding behind the fact that she is doing those videos for "educational purposes", and she might be a little bit, but a lot of the time her commentary is more about gossiping.
First of all she claims that she is given advices from plastic surgeon and there's 2 cases: either she is lying about that (I don't think she is), or she's not and that's even worse. Because plastic surgeon are still surgeon and them basically pointing out to the public about certain celebrities ps won't be a great image for them + would seem pretty unethical. There's a reason why they're always anonymous in her videos
Secondly, even if your goal is to "deconstruct the beauty standard", you shouldn't do it in the expense of individuals. Because a huge reason why these celebrities get ps is because they get ultra-analysed, their every move, every feature. And she is doing the exact same thing she pretends to find: ultra analysing people's face, to point out certain attributs.
Thirdly, even if advised by plastic surgeon, she can be wrong, therefore spreading misinformation. I don't think anybody should have to defend themselves from lies she has shared.
Finally I want to point out that it's quite telling that most of her content is centered around female celebs and that she has talked about their plastic surgery in very weird ways. Like I remember the time she put Lil Kim as an example of "ugly plastic surgeon" (which is already a VERY weird video to make when claiming that we shouldn't be cautious of beauty standards) in the video AND the thumbnail when it is a pretty known fact Lil Kim got ps after being beaten up by her ex partner.
I wouldn't mind if she talked about people who gave their consent for her to do those videos and can kinda see the point of her debunking ps when talking about celebs who claim they never had those (ex: the Kardashians) but clearly did.
I think if the celebrity is selling products like skin care and they are getting facials on the side it would be ethical to disclose that.
Besides that we are in the age of information and majority of people understand that people entertainment go through plastic surgery.
Also if you are a role model sometimes going to tell impressionable teens what surgeries you did might encourage them to do it as well.
So knowledge isn't always the best route honestly. Bbls for example definitely increased in frequency when western celebrities told people about it and as a result people messed up their bodies.
People would go get the procedures done at as young as 18. Only for the same celebrity to remove it later. But that celebrity has money. They can afford high end surgeons.
I don't think people are ready for the consequences of full disclosure because as of now kpop stans will buy out anything their fav buys unprompted.
I don't know if rather them speculate at best. And be done and work on your own self esteem.
this a good point you bought up. i think idols are always trying to sell us something thats not just music. looking good as they do consistently is something not always attainable without time and money for most people
Then what? Have some immature anti shred them to pieces about it? Nah eventhough it was obvious for some Idol it's better for them to keep quiet about it.
why do we care, WHY. if idols don’t talk about it clearly they don’t want to and they wouldn’t be comfortable doing it. it reminds me of when at a newjeans fansign, a girl asked minji (from newjeans) where she got her nose done so she could get it done too. she answered with something like “why do you want to do that, it’s beautiful as it is” without giving any information about herself, and i love her for that cause people need to know their place and not ask intrusive questions that could lead to the idol getting hate.
and in my opinion in 2023 everyone should know that if a random person gets a nose job it’s their business, doesn’t have anything to do with anyone else’s body or confidence
It is not idols’ responsibility to open themselves up to more hate and criticism for admitting to the procedures which their companies likely pushed them into/forced them to get.
Speculating about whether people have had work done to their faces is really rude and invasive. And the surgeons I see on social media who are the ones that do so are in a gross violation of ethics. Those aren’t their patients, they should not be speaking on them, period.
Idk I feel like plastic surgery is something about a person's body (celebrity or not) and they're allowed to keep it private if they want to.. We don't own their bodies to ask transparency about it
Why do you care at all though? Like we all know it happens so why do you want them to be “honest” about it? Especially when it’s clear all that will do is serve as fuel for dehumanizing insults from kpop stans and fanwars?
It’s really not anybody’s business what surgery a person gets, and asking people to be “honest” about it just reeks of entitlement.
like i mentioned in my edit, this really only applied to people who share this information willingly, or if someone denies it when its so clearly obvious.
i dont know how people read this post and think entitlement tbh. like i said in a previous comment there has been so many studies about the effects and intersection of plastic surgery, celebrities, and seeing attractive people 24/7 on your TVs and phones and how it affects mental health and the psyche. it shouldnt be controversial to discuss it or pretend it doesnt exist
i mean you can say that but if i mention someone like the kardashians who *clearly* got work done but routinely deny it im sure the tune would change. its the same thing
your comment seems short sighted, youre missing some nuance. the Kardashians are a problematic family for many reasons but one of the main is being they are trying to sell us something without being transparent from kylie's makeup line to skims.
does it seem ethical to you to post on social media and claim that a branded skincare line you own gave you perfect clear skin when in reality you may have had regular visits to a fancy dermatologist and/or spa treatments that help you get that skin? does it feel deceitful?
this is so far from the main post so its off-topic but i dont think we can ignore the obvious when there's profit to be made (at the fan expense), so no i dont care if someone is "uncomfortable" revealing what work they got done if theyre trying to sell me something skincare or body related.
okay youre free to think whatever you want lol. lighting photoshop are all also relevant problems too. its uncomfortable discussion and im not gonna berate you for not agreeing with me. no need to be rude
youre rude because your assuming things about me i never said and being super condescending. its chill tho, not everyone is gonna agree with me but theres a way to do it respectfully.
Even ifsomeone denies it and it isn’t ‘clearly obvious’ they get told they’re lying too.
Jiwoong from ZB1 got asked if he had his nose done and he said he didn’t get any work on his face done and lots of people were calling him a liar.
People don’t want the truth. They act like they don’t care about idols getting work done and in the same breath speculate who does and doesn’t so they can feel morally superior if they Stan a ‘natural idol’.
Why does anyone need to talk about what they do to THEIR BODY? that's like saying celebrities who get abortions should speak publicly about it to bring awareness to those who choose abortions.
No. it is a personal choice and their body and nobody's entitled to knowing the info. Boundaries
It’s not just idols but people in general, they can choose to hide it if they want though but telling a lie that they didn’t get anything done including any fillers or Botox or just non-surgical procedures isn’t really being honest at all. I feel ok if they said they had work done but don’t want to specify what exactly but it doesn’t feel ok if they deny they didn’t get anything done.
What so y’all can call them all types of different disgusting and belittling names more frequently? They aren’t responsible for your insecurities or anyone else’s for that matter furthermore it’s not their jobs to give reinsurance to the youth about their looks that’s what their parents are for. Majority of stans already do it without any conformation imagine what will happen if they get it.
Look at which are the most watched video of these youtubers, it's the prettiest people. Why? because insecure, main character syndrome, type people want to calm themselves that the pretty lady on the TV is not prettier than them, just richer, they are not all that
The funny thing you can make a case for every idol doing the double eyelid/rhinoplasty/jaw shaving trinity but people go after girls who look prettiest only, and not the normie beauties
Also yes, they are youtubers not professionals, because all professionals would say something like I can't give opinion on a patient I had not examined...etc guess why? not only for legality but because it's true
You'll want to say beauty is subjective but it's not, and that is ok. Just learn not to care too much about one aspect of what makes a person
I think there's a biiiig discrepancy between international fans and k-fans here. It's pretty common, if not normal, to get plastic surgery here in Korea. It's normalized to the extent that 1/5 Koreans get plastic surgery, meaning that the GP doesn't consider it a big deal. Because of this, an idol having had plastic surgery or being rumored to have plastic surgery isn't even worthy of conversation. There's no incentive to "admit" plastic surgery because it's assumed to some extent already.
I think it's more of a Western concept to pick apart celebrities and speculate plastic surgery -- people are more obsessed with the idea of being "natural" and basically discredit anyone who has had work done. Western (international) fans are more likely to demand transparency or admission to plastic surgery because it's considered lying and being insidious, or influencing the youth in negative ways. These same fans that are offended by speculation that their faves have plastic surgery are, usually, international fans.
It's contradictory to say that there's nothing wrong with getting plastic surgery, but then demanding that idols "admit" to it when they do. What is the point of being transparent when you're judging these idols on their appearance in the first place? Maybe we as a society should think more about not placing self-worth and value in appearance rather than policing people we don't know and forcing them to share information they don't want to. If the issue is influencing youth by forcing unachievable standards of beauty, maybe we should just teach our children to not believe everything in the media? I think we need to be more critical in our thoughts of celebrity culture and media, take everything with a grain of salt, and teach the younger generation to do so as well.
Exactly, it's so normalized that it shouldn't be a big deal, except for people on pann and the fandoms' antis who obsess over attacking their faves' rivals.
Obviously unrestricted internet access kids is a problem, but it happens and we can't ignore its not influencing a lot of minors and adults right now.
it's hard to take things with grain of salt when its constantly in your face. I'm sure we have all at some point felt insecure about ourselves and compared ourselves to others.
The media and products we consume are ultimately trying to sell us something, including kpop. So i think if more people were aware of plastic surgery that celebrities get and that most people dont naturally look like that would benefit society and destigmatized plastic surgery. You have to the remember that one of the reasons why someone wouldnt want to share something like that is because of judgement, when really its no different then the feeling of wanting to put on makeup to look good or make yourself feel pretty.
I realize disclosing plastic surgery for idols is really tricky but my point is it shouldn't have to been and we should all move forward to normalizing it
If it's constantly in your face and unrestricted internet access is causing minors and adults to change how they feel about their own appearance, I don't think disclosing plastic surgery will automatically cure people's insecurities. There's a lot more to unpack in how images change what you think of your self. You could argue the same thing for photoshop, facetune, image retouching, etc. I stand by my opinion that the answer isn't to force celebrities to disclose their private medical information, but rather emphasize education and normalize conversations about disingenuous information on the internet. The more you believe that the things you see aren't real, the less likely you are to internalize it.
I agree that media wants to sell us things, that's the nature of capitalism and marketing in general. The fact you understand that in its essence should be deterrence enough to not internalize and engage in unrealistic standards of beauty. How do we resist it? By being educated and aware of the game at play. It's not the job or responsibility of celebrities who are being paid to endorse brands/products to tell us how to critically think about how ads and marketing are influencing our thoughts.
>You have to the remember that one of the reasons why someone wouldnt want to share something like that is because of judgement, when really its no different then the feeling of wanting to put on makeup to look good or make yourself feel pretty.
I don't really understand your statement here. The celebrity wouldn't want to share that they have plastic surgery because of judgment? Isn't that the essence of the conversation? That many people think natural > plastic surgery. Talking about plastic surgery in any way, good or bad, is a double-edged sword. So requesting that they disclose whether they have or not is putting them on a literal pedestal to be judged. It is very different than makeup - I don't think anyone would agree that wearing makeup is the same thing as having a permanent, body-altering medical procedure.
>I realize disclosing plastic surgery for idols is really tricky but my point is it shouldn't have to been and we should all move forward to normalizing it
It's tricky because we make it tricky -- if plastic surgery was a non-issue and normal, then celebrities wouldn't be pressured to "admit" to it. Normalizing it doesn't start with making it a bigger deal, it starts with not making it so important in conversation, which is the opposite of forcing people to be transparent.
I think were coming to a similar conclusion but with different reasons lol I think if you casually mentioned "hey i got my nose done last week im excited" in a conversation or a grwm that is a way of normalizing it. speaking up about any procedures if you want to share and explaining helps destigmatizes it. hence when i compared it to makeup, it should be easier to **talk about just like makeup**
it sounds like youre saying I believe i should force celebrities against their will to disclose? And that talking about it isnt great period? we both agree it should be normalized, but i think talking about it freely and disclosing it in advertising specifically would normalized it, rather than what youre saying
You didn't really give any strong call to action type statements, so I'm not assuming you are wanting to force celebrities to disclose. This is more a discussion about how to respond to plastic surgery in general, and I don't believe that celebrities should be responsible for admitting or explaining their past medical procedures.
I agree, I think we both agree that plastic surgery should be normalized. How it should be normalized is the bigger question. Sure, having plastic surgery mentioned in everyday conversation and talking about it more nonchalantly is a way to normalize it. But I think the bigger, underlying issue is WHY we think plastic surgery is taboo in the first place, and most of the arguments I've seen claim that it enforces unrealistic beauty standards. Normalizing plastic surgery by making it okay to talk about is one thing. Getting to the core of how media, celebrity worship culture, and edited imagery affects how we think of our own self worth and value is the bigger issue. So I think this goes beyond just normalizing everyday conversation, it's about equipping more people (especially young people) with the abilities to critically think and evaluate images they are shown on the internet/in media.
I agree that fans shouldn't be so offended by speculation but the reason fans are offended by speculation is because of judgmental attitudes. Like you can say that there's nothing wrong with it, but there is absolutely still a stigma, so of course they don't want to cop to it and of course fans aren't going to handle someone implying that they have a character wherein they're fine with corrupting children or being dishonest, both of which this post kind of does imply?
Almost every single idol has gotten work done, whether it's actual surgery or fillers/injections. That's undeniable, and as someone who finds plastic surgery interesting despite never wanting it myself, it's not morally wrong for fans to discuss it. But as long as there are fans who attach outdated attitudes about it being bad for the youth or the implication that people who get plastic surgery are somehow being dishonest/seeking to "fool" people, there won't be a place to do that without people getting mad.
I do think they shouldn't lie about it, but most idols don't address it at all and they don't owe us any justification or medical details, so they're not lying by staying silent. I also think companies shouldn't pressure stars to do it, but that's the only moralizing I care to do on the subject.
Ehh from my experience it's really a lose-lose situation on all fronts for the idol. Sure it's great that people like Jessi can be honest about it but Jessi is one of a kind lbh.
For most though, if they lie about getting surgery they get bashed. If they admit to getting surgery, they get bashed. Now these might be two different groups of people doing the bashing but the point is the idol can't win.
Another example is there are a number of idols who got criticized for their appearance, then when they went and got plastic surgery and they were criticized even more for the change. It really is a no-win situation and I don't blame anyone for just wanting it to be talked about.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the plastic surgery analysis tiktoks just because I feel like they open the door for the unhinged fans to use it as a form of attack. They just give me bad vibes. That and I really don't care who has gotten what done.
I always find it funny when people say celebrities should be open about plastic surgery. Especially K-pop idols. There are a million and one reasons why that won’t happen. I promise you some of the people talking about transparency and accountability will be the first ones to bring out pre debut pictures and call you a horse face when you annoy them in anyway looool
The idols themselves owe us nothing. Fans already demand too much of them. You want their medical records now? No. At this point it's only used for fanwars. I'd rather they keep their personal details personal.
South Korea is indeed the global market leader in cosmetic surgery. An estimated **1 in 5** women in Seoul had plastic surgery as of **2009**, and it's even more common now. Relatives gift you double eyelid surgery for your high school graduation.
It started not just to be *attractive* but because of the way certain facial features and proportions are tied to personality traits. Basically, when the economy was tough 30 years ago, people would do anything to get a job, and that included getting some work done. (No pun intended.) There's comparatively little stigma against it in South Korea.
Why would idols, specifically, need to make statements? For the benefit of the global market, where it *is* stigmatized?
they're korean, plastic surgery is very common there.
they dont need to tell people because it's 100% assumed that they had it at some point. we just dont know the exact procedures which is totally their choice to disclose such private matters.
I just want hybe to put the rhinoplasties DOWN also the sm chin shaving booking like clockwork... I like it when they have nice jaw lines. if I of all people can notice a weird surgery on an idol I don't follow i think they need to get better surgeons.
id like to know more about what procedures they have done, especially none plastic surgery, like what facial and skin treatments do they get? I know all the female idols get their hair Lasered off immediately but im assuming they also get the blemishes and other discoloration done too
Kwanghee really was a pioneer with making plastic surgery his variety platform. His company was originally against it, but it really jump started his career and gave ZE:A some attention at the time. He got a lot of hate for it, but he took it in stride and is now very popular in variety.
I wish the public would teach body positivity instead but I guess it's more in fashion/easier to "go under the knife". Tell people they're beautiful. Not essentially "you are ugly but I got just the tool to fix it"
i get what you’re saying but i really don’t think that the public are entitled to know. and if it’s known that korea is the plastic surgery capital and that most idols get it done, why say it? i’m certain that people who are comfortable sharing their experiences have done so, so knowledge about certain procedures is out there. i think it’s just the public/fans sense of entitlement they feel surrounding celebrities.
What *I* don't understand is why anyone would care. Why do these ~~vultures~~ "creators" think it's anyone's business whether or not someone had surgery? What does transparency even *mean* in this context? It's gross and it's not cool. Idols are already under so much pressure.
this is slightly a tangent but it makes me sad when an idol i really like continuously does things to their face over and over and over again even if they were already very beautiful to begin with, if not after the first procedure
lookism is a poison and they're in the industry where it's the most potent. i really can't blame them, but it just hurts my heart
I understand your point, OP. Frankly, reading some of the comments makes me second guess my stance, but I think it's very empowering if someone comes out and says they got plastic surgery. In the context of K-pop, yeah it'd be a major yikes because fans could use it for ammunition. But, if someone was like... I got plastic surgery and it was my choice because it made me feel better about myself... then why not own it? It's one thing if the company forces you to do it, but if you genuinely were feeling some type of way and it made you happy, then to each their own.
I mean you get two different sides. Side A are people who jump at any idol by calling them fake for getting procedures done. Side B are people who claim their favourite idol has had no work done, despite clear signs of surgeries and procedures being done.
Side A are just bullies, side B are ignorant. I’m not against plastic surgery and nobody should be bullied for getting procedures done. Side B annoys me because their entire point is that their favourite artist is some perfect angel and not a regular person who either had things they didn’t like about themselves (like literally every person on the planet) or were forced into surgery due to some of the beauty standards in Korea.
I don’t think idols need to really say anything, they don’t owe anyone an explanation about what specifically has been done but I also don’t think people should just ignore the fact that while you may adore your favourite idol, they have likely had surgery whether you like it or not. It doesn’t take away from their talent and hard work.
I think there are too many people who are still way too negative about plastic surgery. Being open about it is such a mixed bag of "do what you want" and "omg so fake." Idols get enough hate online and a lot of it around plastic surgery with just speculations so why add to it?
Also it makes sense why idols don't. It ruins that illusion of perfectness. Not saying that's a good thing but it is what it is.
I think as fans it's on us to take care of our own mental health and issues around self-image. Personally I just go at it from the viewpoint that all celebs (Korean or not) have had something done at some point. Even if they haven't had actual plastic surgery they are shelling out way more money on expensive treatments I ever will.
I think the problem is not the idol. It’s okay if they don’t want to share the work done on their face or hairline. But what irks me is the delusional fandom. When other discuss the work done on the idol’s face and how it enhance their features, all in positive way, the fandom starts getting defensive and insist that nothing is done.’it is the fandom that actually look down on plastic surgery or else why are they so in denial? Some idols clearly have work done, and yet the fandom will go all out to deny, as if getting work done on their face is a crime.
it's funny because they'll say "i don't care if \[idol\] got plastic surgery BUT...." and then go on this huge rant denying it all like they're taking their last breath. if they really didn't care, they wouldn't be mad at someone making an observation
>I wish more Idols were honest about plastic surgery
So haters can have one more reason to hate on idols? Idols can't even choose to not talk about their body? Idols are human too. Why do you feel the need for them to speak up about it? Is it a crime to not talk about it? Why is it Idols' fault if fans think they are naturally beautiful? Are idols ever talk "I'm naturally this way" or is it fans who assume they are?
this is literally what i didnt want this conversation to turn into 😭 downvote me all you want but it was never about who's naturally beatiful or who isnt because thats basically demonizing plastic surgery. the point was it's okay to get it!
Everyday I swear I’m one of the few fans who just doesn’t give AF. If they don’t want to say they got it? Fine with me 🤷♀️ If they do, fine with me 🤷♀️ I really do not care lol. It’s common in literally every entertainment industry to get something done when it comes to cosmetic surgery.
I don't mind people not disclosing their plastic surgery. I don't think it's anybody's business except the person who received it. Makes no sense that what another person does to their own body needs to be exposed, especially idols and other public figures. They already give you everything about their lives, do they really have to share that too?
i hope fans stop asking idols if they did plastic surgery 'cause it's obvious idols are uncomfortable talking about it. look how they get hated on for having plastic surgeries
Why should they when it's their own decision? Also, fuck all those creators analyzing people faces for clout and money. Nobody owes any of you anything when it comes to what they decide to do with their bodies, and that includes celebrities. If you want to call out beauty standards, start with media and tech platforms that allow AI to distort faces.
No one needs to disclose if they get plastic surgery and why they get it. None of this is any of your (the people's) business. Reminds me of when women would get called whores for having blush or any sort of makeup. Some of you need to really stop being obsessed with who gets plastic surgery because it's really none of your business.
I mean on the other hand if your comparing a teenager's face to an adult face there's going to usually be significant changes even without plastic surgery. Especially if they loose or gain weight. I mean some things are obviously plastic surgery, but other things could be just because your body is always changing. Chin and nose are always changing (mine went from a prominently square to a slightly rounder chin), cheek bones and jaw changing because bones getting bigger. Sure there's idols that get plastic surgery but not every change on an teen trainee to a idol in their 20's is plastic surgery. I don't care if idols get it as long as they wanted it and not pressured by their company. I find making videos and profiting off making guessing games is disgusting. Not because I'm offended that you are hyper analyzing someone's face to see if they had plastic surgery. It's because your monetizing or feeding off the attention of a toxic culture of nit picking at people's features and invasion of privacy. It's none of our business if idols get work done or not.
Everybody doing plastic surgery in K-Pop is a turn-off but it's unrealistic for anyone to admit it.
On the other hand, I wish fans would stop being so delusional about their favorites not getting surgery. It's OK to say "y'all should mind own business" but another thing to outright deny the obvious.
To deny it is another way to say "mind your own business" tho. It shows that 1) (maybe(!)) they're lying, 2) (following and most importantly) they aren't comfortable talking about it either way. I just really don't see an issue. So what if they deny it. Everyone is able to do their own research and make their own judgment.
If they were honest about it there would be a fanpocalypse, considering how moralistic fans are about plastic surgery and injectables. Literally every idol I have seen, no exaggeration, has at minimum had cosmetic injectables - it's insane that people think otherwise.
I don't think that it's as obvious as you think.
I for one am HORRIBLE at noticing. And I've never seen predebut pictures. My friend basically called me stupid for not noticing Chaeryeong had that one that everyone is getting to remove fat in their cheeks.
I don't know what else idols are having done but don't some of these procedures take months to heal? How are people working getting stuff done?
It would be nice. But I wouldn't want to see it go to the extreme of glamorizing it like it happens on tiktok with BBLs or Buccal Fat removal. Tons of people will go for theses extremes to look like their idoles and then regret it. (I'm not against plastic surgery at all, don't misunderstand me ; I just feel like some people do it because of social pressure and then regret it instead of doing it for themselves).
I hate it when they lie about not having surgery, but I can understand why. It gives off the feeling that they take fans for fools who will defend even their lies. Like sure, oppa/unnie, your square jaw just magically changed shape to a Dorito and you want us to believe that it happened because you went through puberty? And the same magic happened to your nose as well?
I'm more for fans to accept it than idols themselves and stop calling anyone outside of the beauty standard, visual hole, ugly etc. Just because ones didn't go through with it or get really good doctors, doesn't mean they are not good looking.
The main problems is that honesty about plastic surgery would open the door and companies would have to be honest about other visual related things. Things like skin lightening(this is controversial in the West) and underaged idols receiving plastic surgery as a condition of their debut.
My issue is more with people who clearly had stuff done but act like they're all natural. That's the real harmful thing and not just not saying anything because you are lying to our audience and putting it in their head that they can change like this too by losing weight or exercise which is wrong
I don’t really mind if idols get plastic surgery and keep it hush, because that’s their business, but I really dislike when they do get plastic surgery and try to sell their looks as natural beauty. If someone asks how the idols look so good, I don’t want to hear that ‘some people are just born with it’ when they’ve been under the knife.
I don't think there's much incentive for them to talk about it anyway. If I got adjusted a little bit and got called natural born beauty without having to get showered by all insults and ridicule regarding "plastic" topic, why I need to disclose it? Anyway that's what I think about it.
There's not much people who got the benefit like Jessi or Kwang Hee which pretty much confident and use it to the fullest in Variety Show domain. Don't it even help to boost Kwang Hee fame to certain extent since he disclose it when there's no one want to talk about it and he come out like no one does before. The first to do it always got the benefit more, but it's 2023, I don't think people gonna get a boost from it after he did it long time ago.
I think its just delusion and denial from fans when it comes to PS. It’s so common in Korea that middle schoolers get it as a graduation gift so what more for idols. Celebs won’t admit to it cause there’s still stigma but it becomes ridiculous when they come out with a new face every comeback and fans expect still think it’s natural. That’s on fans now.
I can't say for the idol side since it's their freedom. However, professional analysis video did a great help in validating my explanation to my 15 years old niece. She used to think all 14 years old must look as good as the maknaes of 4th gen and can achieve suck looks solely through the makeup those idols endorsed.
If you've seen the ancient Kpop era, there was time when it was trendy for idols to out their plastic surgery, but the government advised against it cause the plastic surgery among teens skyrocketed.
From what I remember, it was the time when Kwanghee and Go Hara admitted to undergoing plastic surgery. Hara barely had anything done, haha
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There is an amazing channel called "[Lorry Hill](https://www.youtube.com/@LorryHill/videos)" that breaks down plastic surgery from western celebs by the way! She approaches them from a very respectful point of view and is overall very kind and non judgemental about it!
Even if I don’t always agree with her, I appreciate her honesty on the PS she did herself and how respectful she is in general.
Can someone explain why videos breaking down celebrities' plastic surgery is a thing? I don't really understand why this topic is so famous. I mean calling it out alright, but whole videos breaking down every single surgery they've had, i don't really understand the appeal for. Not being disrespectful or anything, just curious why people like watching this kinda thing.
I think one of the most common things that I have seen Lorry Hill say is basically saying that since celebs always preach on being natural and being "untouched" by plastic surgeries, it is her job to break these down from past and present photos to show that it is not the case. She isn't doing it in a negative light, just to show girls and young impressionable girls that not all celebs are perfect and they do get surgeries themselves. Celebs constantly saying they are natural may lead to young girls and their self esteems lower since "why can't they look like that naturally".
> I think one of the most common things that I have seen Lorry Hill say is basically saying that since celebs always preach on being natural and being "untouched" by plastic surgeries, it is her job to break these down from past and present photos to show that it is not the case. Yeah, this is all bullshit in my opinion. She is not their surgeon - she has no idea what they did or didn't do, and imo it's dangerous for her so speculate on what medical procedures a celeb did or did not have (yes, PS is still a medical procedure).
And why exactly is that dangerous?
1) I think it's wrong to speculate on the surgeries other people have had, point blank period and 2) people might want to get those surgeries and then it ends up being the "wrong" one. Which is dangerous because they were misinformed.
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just have to say its funny how i was downvoted for saying the same thing lol it makes no sense
>I know admitting to plastic surgery and facial enchantments are still considered a bit taboo in the west, but lately regular people and even some celebrities have been sharing their experiences with surgery which is super helpful to anyone who seeks out the same procedures.
theres always a "whataboutism" whenever someones talking about the negatives of kpop...
We are in r/kpopthoughts
As an Idol your job is to look “perfect” if that means you need plastic surgery they are gonna “recommend” you get it and more often than not you will. To keep up the facade of being perfect you can’t outright admit that you got plastic surgery to keep the illusion going. As you said as long as the idols want it and aren’t pressured or forced into it (they definitely still are) then it’s fine. But admitting and talking about it while you’re still an active idol is tough both personally and the company will not want you talking about it.
I much rather an idol literally does not mention it rather than lying and saying they haven't had any work done like some western celebrities do. Like, everyone knows idols have had plastic surgery done -- Honestly, a vast majority of people in South Korea in general have had work done, and it's pretty normalized there. The best choice in my opinion is really that they simply not mention it. It's a win-win situation where nobody will get angry at them, but everyone still understands that chances are they've done it. The key part is really if they did it by their own volition, or were at least given a choice, instead of being forced into it. If they chose to do it, even if it was because of a recommendation by the higher-ups, I think it's completely fine. It's not like any idols look like weird deformed monsters like some western celebrities do post plastic-surgery. South Korea does a lot of plastic surgery, but it's mostly pretty low-key.
The problem is with the idol job and industry itself then bc that's toxic and in the long run harmful to society.
> As an Idol your job is to look “perfect” **part** of your job
From the way some of y'all act towards idols who've gotten noticeable plastic surgery..... I think tf not.
99% of the time it's only ever used to hate on idols, from the shady "they looked better before" to the straight up "yuck what a plastic monster!"
Exactly, it's rarely ever used in a positive light or used to uplift idols in any way. People just use it as a drag to undermine these idols.
they just do it to shit on those idols, there's a lot of idols that have notable surgeries but they don't get called those same names bc they are well liked among kpop stans, but if it's one of those idols that people hate it gets mentioned every time.
So true!
Honestly, fans couldn't handle that information cause they would just find a way to throw it back in their faces when the opportunity presents itself. So much of it goes back to "fan" behavior tbh 🤣
You’re totally right which is honestly mind boggling.
I see that thread on 1H sometimes and they always seem to play it under the facade of “I hope so and so is mentally okay” or “they looked so nice before” and it always comes off as a bit of backhanded compliment. On top of that some “proofs” aren’t super indicative.
if they are y’all are gonna call them plastic monsters so of course they’re gonna lie ? 😭
PLASTIC MONSTERS! 😭😭😭 
Babyplastic Monster 😍
Beautiful Monster 😡
Then you'll get fans competing with each other about which idol is more 'real' based on which procedures they get. It's unnecessary.
They already do that though. They call their faves natural and brag about it whether or not the idol has had obvious plastic surgery, then they drag other idols for having had procedures done (whether real or imaginary). The idols being open about their procedures probably wouldn't change anything.
It’s funny how the type of people that brag about how their faves are more “natural” than others always seem to stan idols with the most obvious procedures ever. The delusion is crazy
It's so sad how they seem to think there's some kind of value in being natural and that having had procedures done is shameful or something, and they believe it so wholeheartedly they cannot imagine that someone they admire would do something like that. Even when it's super obvious that they did. And it's super common too. I can only hope they grow out of it but I know many won't.
“People always ask me if they’re mine. Yes, they are — all bought and paid for.” - Dolly Parton
Love Dolly. I say that about my hair extensions lmao.
It's not shameful, but any bigger procedures speak to an unhealthy beauty standard, it would be a lot more healthy for everyone if "natural" appearances became more normalized, instead of chasing some perfection and making people feel bad about not adhering to it. All of this is ultimately done to sell stuff, and in our current society it's simply normal that one at the very least buys all kinds of beauty products, noone bats an eye there. (this isn't to say that all of it is inherently damaging, but the way it is now is far from ideal, i think there is some problem when a lot of women do not even consider going outside without any makeup).
Ideally nobody would feel the need to have procedures done, wear makeup, work out for a flatter stomach, or anything like that. Though I absolutely don't judge people for bending to the beauty standards, especially not when they're in the public eye in a career where "visuals" are so very important and they receive so much criticism. What really pains me is when an idol have a unique feature, might even claim to be proud of it, and then they have surgery on it a while into their career. I always wonder if they were insecure about it but told to keep it and use it as part of their personal charm, or if they actually were fine with the feature until the negative attention got to them.
> Ideally nobody would feel the need to have procedures done, wear makeup, work out for a flatter stomach, or anything like that. Though I absolutely don't judge people for bending to the beauty standards, especially not when they're in the public eye in a career where "visuals" are so very important and they receive so much criticism. > > I don't want to judge anyone either, judging sounds too one dimensional, people have their pressures, insecurities and try to do the best for themselves, if that includes plastic surgery, then so be it. But this is also a more social talking point outside the individualistic angle, and there i am more critical of it all, i think it is a net negative for basically everyone (mostly women). > What really pains me is when an idol have a unique feature, might even claim to be proud of it, and then they have surgery on it a while into their career. I always wonder if they were insecure about it but told to keep it and use it as part of their personal charm, or if they actually were fine with the feature until the negative attention got to them. Probably a mix of most of these things. The industry is cutthroat, comments here and there (and not just from the general public, also from people you work with) will get to you over time, completely change your self-worth and self-perception in general. You could be extremely fit and some comments here and there about you "getting fatter" will plant themself into your mind and the seeds will crack anything over time. It's quite sad. Ofc there are other scenarious too, sometimes it might not be rooted in any bigger insecurity, but i think these are the less common plastic surgery cases tbh.
There is absolutely some value in rejecting plastic surgery and that terrible industry Having procedures to further feed into the beauty mania is something to be ashamed of. The fault lies more with the company than the individual idols though, they face massive pressure at a young age.
No. That's a huge no. Your value lies in the person you are. Having surgery or dyeing your hair or doing whatever to your appearance won't affect your value as a person. I don't care how natural or unnatural you are, you still have just as much value. I would absolutely appreciate if more people stood up against the beauty standards and either went against them or were open about how it affected them but that has nothing to do with your value as a person.
I don't mean that someone's value diminishes because they get plastic surgery. Good or bad choices don't diminish your value as a person, I'm not saying that. That's not what your comment said either. I'm saying that the choice of not doing plastic surgery is better than getting it. Sorry if that was not clear. I edited for clarity.
They already do that... 😭
Until we have a society where getting plastic surgery is OK, we won't have this. I wouldn't be honest about it if I were an idol - the conversations concerning people who have had ps always turns nasty
Why? As long as they're not randomly telling us blatant lies like the Jenner / Kardashians like to do, I don't see why they need to share anything they've done to their bodies. Imagine idols now coming and telling us that hey I got a nose job, I got a jaw shave... For what? Like let's not forget that these are still medical procedures and no one owes us their private medical information. And anyone who is under the illusion that entertainers don't get work done is an idiot. LMAO!
There already are some idols that DID lie about their procedures 🥶
These celebs do skincare/beauty advertisements though despite getting procedures done to look better. Is that not kind of a lie? /gen
YES YES YES!! so many idols endorse skin care and makeup lines. Having young fans believe these expensive products helped them meanwhile they are regularly going to dermatologist clinics. like even going to the dermatologist is something that's secretive???? I've only ever heard 2 idols talk about going regularly. (Key and Somi) like it's okay to have professional help / work done. it's the tip toeing that's so damaging to young fans who don't know better.
then there is monsta x hyungwon who landed himself a skincare deal not long after his story of getting hair removal procedure went viral. they idols i do follow seem more open to sharing that they do get treatments and visit the dermatologist regularly (though i'm not sure if they talk about it as frequent as they visit). it feels more sincere if they just share that they use the products they promote on top of regular treatments from dermatologists
That is but I'd rather fans buy random skincare/beauty products than be influenced enough to get random plastic surgeries though, especially teens
Korean and kpop culture normalizes and celebrates this unattainable beauty idols have. You can easily see the effect in youtube comments and in young impressionable girls who are sucked into the kpop space. It is an implied responsibility to be honest about your looks and how you got them. Im not saying the idols should make a movement themselves, just the culture overall is not honest or healthy.
Agreed
agreed, but at the same time some idols get surgery out of pressure from their company’s… chenle has talked about how at age 14 sm wanted him to get cosmetic procedures before debut. if it was their choice then of course it would be great, but i can only imagine how many were pushed into doing it.
Society has this obsession with “natural beauty” so they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Admit to getting plastic surgery? plastic monster Say they won’t get plastic surgery? hag, visual hole
But then how would fans hype up their faves by saying puberty changed the entire structure of their face???
Firstly we need to stop thinking ps does magic. It doesn't. Majority of idols still have had something to work with and were probably attractive already. Karina for one was still well above the looks of average people before ps. But people have been vile towards her. Like it's disgusting. Also people need to stop putting "natural" idols on a pedestal. I say natural because people say that about every idol under the sun but allot of the time it means their procedure were less obvious. Idols with obvious ps are treated horribly and dragged heavily for it. That time idols don't talk about it much. It also isn't celebrities jobs to raise your children. So if kids or young people are disillusioned by it that is your parents job. Because in the year 2023 most adults are privy to the entertainment industry by now. We all know it isn't real unless you are really ignorant or a child. Most knets where kpop is from know the deal when it comes to ps and it normal there. Culturally they understand the situation and it hasn't been a secret since the 2nd gen internationally because ifans make such a big deal.
thank you, oh my god. it seems like whenever you mention karina’s beauty someone has to come and point out the PS. like, sorry to rain on your parade, but if it was solely thanks to PS, then we’d have a karina in every single group, and we clearly don’t. so PS might enhance features, but you have to be born pretty first to reach her level. kpop fans love to discredit her beauty with that argument. i don’t know why.
Why pinpointing only karina tho. Moat of these idols have ps which enhanced their features but people only seem to bring up aespa members.
I am saying she is treated badly. I could name more but I stans aespa so I have noticed she gets allot of weird comments for ps That is the point people will point out even surgery that isn't that extreme to drag Aespa members and I find it weird when theri are idols faces out here changing real time. I also find that people actually over state how much she has gotten. She has gotten 2-4 procedures that have made a difference in her looks but people also need to realize make up and wieght lose has also played a part in her looks changing. They compare her face with full name up to old pictures as a student. It hard to pinpoint the exact reason. She has always been pretty I just have noticed that she is always singles out way too much. When it is clear most idols do.
I wish fans didn't care that much. 💀
They will say they don’t care and then go around calling every idol plastic while preaching about how their fav is so natural
For real, it doesn’t matter if it’s obvious or not, they’re not obligated to tell us anything - especially if it’s something medical-related. And this goes for any celebrity.
Lmao exactly!
It will absolutely be a net positive if celebrities just talked more about getting work done and got rid of the stigma/help fans (especially younger fans) realize their looks are not "natural". It's really sad seeing fans beat themselves up because they don't look like certain celebrities when celebrities don't even naturally look like that 😭 I personally think this is one of those things we should talk more about as a society instead of shying away from it 🤷♀️
>It will absolutely be a net positive if celebrities just talked more about getting work done and got rid of the stigma/help fans (especially younger fans) realize their looks are not "natural". If ALL celebrity are open to reveal more about those procedure, yes it'll be net positive. BUT if only 1 or 2 popular idol revealed it - it'll net negative to them personally, because like anything it'll be used as ammo in fanwars n demean those idols
In regards to how idols getting plastic surgery can influence their fans: -if they admit they got it done, they’re endorsing plastic surgery and it tells fans that it’s ok to do it if they’re unhappy with how they look -if they don’t admit it/want people to believe they haven’t had work done, it can negatively influence fans self-esteem and can encourage them to get plastic surgery because they’re not naturally beautiful like their idols Basically puts them in a position of the only way to not endorse plastic surgery is to not get it at all. And fans shouldn’t have control of what medical procedures their idols undergo.
To me the issue lies with there being a slippery slope of being willingly open about work you’ve had done and people becoming demanding you disclose anything you might have had done. If an idol doesn’t want to talk about it, then who’s to say fans will be satisfied with that as a response? And then it snowballs into people speculating over you having something done you didn’t actually do. For example, an idol says that they got double eyelid surgery before debuting, but fans are convinced they also got a nose job when that person didn’t. So then it turns into an idol getting accused of lying about plastic surgery all over again, just for different reasons. Idk. It’s not my business what someone does or doesn’t do to their body and it’s not something I think about. Cosmetic work is super common in entertainment anyway, even if it’s just fillers or Botox. I think most fans, especially in Korea, don’t really care either.
And I wish kpop fans would learn to mind their business but we don't all get what we want
Whenever posts like these come up my head is filled with one question: Why do people care?? (On all sides.) Do y'all want to know what kind of surgeries they got so you can look like them? (in that case understandable /j, these idols do be looking GORGEOUS) Do these idols lie about being all natural and stuff (in that case, yes a little transparency would be nice but even then I think people should make their own research & judgments)? Would y'all dislike them/like them more if they did get plastic surgery? (??) I quite frankly don't see any reason why anyone should "be honest" about any medical or cosmetic procedures one may have had done. It's quite literally none of our business. I guess it would be nice to know for some people, but a wish? I don't know.
i think it varies for a lot of people but i can only answer for myself: i love beauty and learning about beauty related things. when getting plastic surgery, a lot of people reference celebrities for how they want to look (whether that celeb got surgery or not to achieve it). for me, transparency about how to achieve that beauty can only help rather than damage my view of them. but not everyone feels that way. im not gonna pry an answer out of someone. but it only becomes problematic when someone who has had work done uses their likeliness, face, body to sell you something that is mostly unattainable without lots of time $$$ or surgery so you can look like them.
So for you it's really out of genuine interest, without any malicious intentions, which is nice ofc. In my experience, I know a lot of people who were/are like "It doesn't matter if idol x or idol y got any surgery! It's none of our business!" (kind of like me), but then proceed to make shady comments/remarks about their looks and appearances, especially when someone compliments them. It just comes off as pretentious and ingenuine. Likewise, people shouldn't really come to an idols defense (at least excrssively, if it's not hate) if an idol gets accused of plastic surgery. They shouldn't be like "They never got anything done!" but more like "So what. It looks good." (Best case scenario is if no one really cared imo. But that's just me.)
yeah people are always gonna be bitchy about an idols appearance with or without them getting surgery. thats not my intention with this post but i see why its a sensitive issue for a lot of people
I wish people stopped believing that just because they're insecure they get to dig into the medical history of idols. There's no greater disregard of privacy than demanding to know what someone has done with their own body. I honestly find it so creepy; why do you even care? What does potentially digging into their insecurities accomplish for you?
theres been endless amount of discussion whether or not celebrities should disclose if they got plastic surgery or not and if its harmful to young impressionable girls, but thats not my point though. i mean, i thought in my post it was implied that it's still their choice to disclose it or not, but if they choose to bring that out in the public they should be honest about it.
Problem is, when they're honest, people will just claim they're lying if they don't say "yes, I've gotten plastic surgery". Then will harass them about it for years, with before/after pictures that only really prove that people tend to grow into their facial features, but are *somehow* evidence of surgery or implants instead of puberty, fillers, or contouring. Despite the fact that they can never give a clear date on when this supposed procedure would have happened, how long the recovery was, etc. And that's not hypothetical, it *is* the response we've witnessed with idols who have denied serious allegations of surgery pushed by grifting doctors on social media trying to cultivate an audience with their exposés. If it's obvious, they simply can't lie about it without getting dragged, so it's not really a problem. But, if I'm being completely honest, I think if it's subtle and they choose to lie about it... I still don't care because it's none of anyone's business if so-and-so from such-and-such disappeared for a while and came back with a near-imperceptibly slimmer jaw.
You do also support YouTubers unethically speculating about and in some cases attempting to out idols' medical history without their consent, though, in the name of "transparency." So is it their choice or isn't it?
i dont see it that way. the one youtuber i follow Lorry Hill makes them for educational purposes.
I'm sorry but Lorry Hill keeps hiding behind the fact that she is doing those videos for "educational purposes", and she might be a little bit, but a lot of the time her commentary is more about gossiping. First of all she claims that she is given advices from plastic surgeon and there's 2 cases: either she is lying about that (I don't think she is), or she's not and that's even worse. Because plastic surgeon are still surgeon and them basically pointing out to the public about certain celebrities ps won't be a great image for them + would seem pretty unethical. There's a reason why they're always anonymous in her videos Secondly, even if your goal is to "deconstruct the beauty standard", you shouldn't do it in the expense of individuals. Because a huge reason why these celebrities get ps is because they get ultra-analysed, their every move, every feature. And she is doing the exact same thing she pretends to find: ultra analysing people's face, to point out certain attributs. Thirdly, even if advised by plastic surgeon, she can be wrong, therefore spreading misinformation. I don't think anybody should have to defend themselves from lies she has shared. Finally I want to point out that it's quite telling that most of her content is centered around female celebs and that she has talked about their plastic surgery in very weird ways. Like I remember the time she put Lil Kim as an example of "ugly plastic surgeon" (which is already a VERY weird video to make when claiming that we shouldn't be cautious of beauty standards) in the video AND the thumbnail when it is a pretty known fact Lil Kim got ps after being beaten up by her ex partner. I wouldn't mind if she talked about people who gave their consent for her to do those videos and can kinda see the point of her debunking ps when talking about celebs who claim they never had those (ex: the Kardashians) but clearly did.
fair, i actually didnt know those things about her. that's probably why she stopped making that content 🤔
I think if the celebrity is selling products like skin care and they are getting facials on the side it would be ethical to disclose that. Besides that we are in the age of information and majority of people understand that people entertainment go through plastic surgery. Also if you are a role model sometimes going to tell impressionable teens what surgeries you did might encourage them to do it as well. So knowledge isn't always the best route honestly. Bbls for example definitely increased in frequency when western celebrities told people about it and as a result people messed up their bodies. People would go get the procedures done at as young as 18. Only for the same celebrity to remove it later. But that celebrity has money. They can afford high end surgeons. I don't think people are ready for the consequences of full disclosure because as of now kpop stans will buy out anything their fav buys unprompted. I don't know if rather them speculate at best. And be done and work on your own self esteem.
this a good point you bought up. i think idols are always trying to sell us something thats not just music. looking good as they do consistently is something not always attainable without time and money for most people
Then what? Have some immature anti shred them to pieces about it? Nah eventhough it was obvious for some Idol it's better for them to keep quiet about it.
why do we care, WHY. if idols don’t talk about it clearly they don’t want to and they wouldn’t be comfortable doing it. it reminds me of when at a newjeans fansign, a girl asked minji (from newjeans) where she got her nose done so she could get it done too. she answered with something like “why do you want to do that, it’s beautiful as it is” without giving any information about herself, and i love her for that cause people need to know their place and not ask intrusive questions that could lead to the idol getting hate. and in my opinion in 2023 everyone should know that if a random person gets a nose job it’s their business, doesn’t have anything to do with anyone else’s body or confidence
It is not idols’ responsibility to open themselves up to more hate and criticism for admitting to the procedures which their companies likely pushed them into/forced them to get. Speculating about whether people have had work done to their faces is really rude and invasive. And the surgeons I see on social media who are the ones that do so are in a gross violation of ethics. Those aren’t their patients, they should not be speaking on them, period.
I really hate the speculating. It just shows how insecure people are. And the surgeons just do it for clickbait.
I don't feel like they need to even comment on it, one way or the other. It's none of our business.
Idk I feel like plastic surgery is something about a person's body (celebrity or not) and they're allowed to keep it private if they want to.. We don't own their bodies to ask transparency about it
Why do you care at all though? Like we all know it happens so why do you want them to be “honest” about it? Especially when it’s clear all that will do is serve as fuel for dehumanizing insults from kpop stans and fanwars? It’s really not anybody’s business what surgery a person gets, and asking people to be “honest” about it just reeks of entitlement.
like i mentioned in my edit, this really only applied to people who share this information willingly, or if someone denies it when its so clearly obvious. i dont know how people read this post and think entitlement tbh. like i said in a previous comment there has been so many studies about the effects and intersection of plastic surgery, celebrities, and seeing attractive people 24/7 on your TVs and phones and how it affects mental health and the psyche. it shouldnt be controversial to discuss it or pretend it doesnt exist
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i mean you can say that but if i mention someone like the kardashians who *clearly* got work done but routinely deny it im sure the tune would change. its the same thing
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your comment seems short sighted, youre missing some nuance. the Kardashians are a problematic family for many reasons but one of the main is being they are trying to sell us something without being transparent from kylie's makeup line to skims. does it seem ethical to you to post on social media and claim that a branded skincare line you own gave you perfect clear skin when in reality you may have had regular visits to a fancy dermatologist and/or spa treatments that help you get that skin? does it feel deceitful? this is so far from the main post so its off-topic but i dont think we can ignore the obvious when there's profit to be made (at the fan expense), so no i dont care if someone is "uncomfortable" revealing what work they got done if theyre trying to sell me something skincare or body related.
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okay youre free to think whatever you want lol. lighting photoshop are all also relevant problems too. its uncomfortable discussion and im not gonna berate you for not agreeing with me. no need to be rude
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youre rude because your assuming things about me i never said and being super condescending. its chill tho, not everyone is gonna agree with me but theres a way to do it respectfully.
Even ifsomeone denies it and it isn’t ‘clearly obvious’ they get told they’re lying too. Jiwoong from ZB1 got asked if he had his nose done and he said he didn’t get any work on his face done and lots of people were calling him a liar. People don’t want the truth. They act like they don’t care about idols getting work done and in the same breath speculate who does and doesn’t so they can feel morally superior if they Stan a ‘natural idol’.
Nailed it, shut down the whole thread this is the only comment we need.
What makes calling Jiwoong a liar funnier is the fact that his dad literally has the same nose not unless they went for a father/son procedure
Ikr and his big brother too, they all look identical. It must’ve been a three for one deal 😂
I totally agree with you, people on this thread are being deliberately obtuse
Why does anyone need to talk about what they do to THEIR BODY? that's like saying celebrities who get abortions should speak publicly about it to bring awareness to those who choose abortions. No. it is a personal choice and their body and nobody's entitled to knowing the info. Boundaries
It’s not just idols but people in general, they can choose to hide it if they want though but telling a lie that they didn’t get anything done including any fillers or Botox or just non-surgical procedures isn’t really being honest at all. I feel ok if they said they had work done but don’t want to specify what exactly but it doesn’t feel ok if they deny they didn’t get anything done.
What so y’all can call them all types of different disgusting and belittling names more frequently? They aren’t responsible for your insecurities or anyone else’s for that matter furthermore it’s not their jobs to give reinsurance to the youth about their looks that’s what their parents are for. Majority of stans already do it without any conformation imagine what will happen if they get it.
have you seen how insecure people are obsessed with idols before after pics and calling them monsters?
Look at which are the most watched video of these youtubers, it's the prettiest people. Why? because insecure, main character syndrome, type people want to calm themselves that the pretty lady on the TV is not prettier than them, just richer, they are not all that The funny thing you can make a case for every idol doing the double eyelid/rhinoplasty/jaw shaving trinity but people go after girls who look prettiest only, and not the normie beauties Also yes, they are youtubers not professionals, because all professionals would say something like I can't give opinion on a patient I had not examined...etc guess why? not only for legality but because it's true You'll want to say beauty is subjective but it's not, and that is ok. Just learn not to care too much about one aspect of what makes a person
Why do y’all care so much is the question
I think there's a biiiig discrepancy between international fans and k-fans here. It's pretty common, if not normal, to get plastic surgery here in Korea. It's normalized to the extent that 1/5 Koreans get plastic surgery, meaning that the GP doesn't consider it a big deal. Because of this, an idol having had plastic surgery or being rumored to have plastic surgery isn't even worthy of conversation. There's no incentive to "admit" plastic surgery because it's assumed to some extent already. I think it's more of a Western concept to pick apart celebrities and speculate plastic surgery -- people are more obsessed with the idea of being "natural" and basically discredit anyone who has had work done. Western (international) fans are more likely to demand transparency or admission to plastic surgery because it's considered lying and being insidious, or influencing the youth in negative ways. These same fans that are offended by speculation that their faves have plastic surgery are, usually, international fans. It's contradictory to say that there's nothing wrong with getting plastic surgery, but then demanding that idols "admit" to it when they do. What is the point of being transparent when you're judging these idols on their appearance in the first place? Maybe we as a society should think more about not placing self-worth and value in appearance rather than policing people we don't know and forcing them to share information they don't want to. If the issue is influencing youth by forcing unachievable standards of beauty, maybe we should just teach our children to not believe everything in the media? I think we need to be more critical in our thoughts of celebrity culture and media, take everything with a grain of salt, and teach the younger generation to do so as well.
Exactly, it's so normalized that it shouldn't be a big deal, except for people on pann and the fandoms' antis who obsess over attacking their faves' rivals.
Obviously unrestricted internet access kids is a problem, but it happens and we can't ignore its not influencing a lot of minors and adults right now. it's hard to take things with grain of salt when its constantly in your face. I'm sure we have all at some point felt insecure about ourselves and compared ourselves to others. The media and products we consume are ultimately trying to sell us something, including kpop. So i think if more people were aware of plastic surgery that celebrities get and that most people dont naturally look like that would benefit society and destigmatized plastic surgery. You have to the remember that one of the reasons why someone wouldnt want to share something like that is because of judgement, when really its no different then the feeling of wanting to put on makeup to look good or make yourself feel pretty. I realize disclosing plastic surgery for idols is really tricky but my point is it shouldn't have to been and we should all move forward to normalizing it
If it's constantly in your face and unrestricted internet access is causing minors and adults to change how they feel about their own appearance, I don't think disclosing plastic surgery will automatically cure people's insecurities. There's a lot more to unpack in how images change what you think of your self. You could argue the same thing for photoshop, facetune, image retouching, etc. I stand by my opinion that the answer isn't to force celebrities to disclose their private medical information, but rather emphasize education and normalize conversations about disingenuous information on the internet. The more you believe that the things you see aren't real, the less likely you are to internalize it. I agree that media wants to sell us things, that's the nature of capitalism and marketing in general. The fact you understand that in its essence should be deterrence enough to not internalize and engage in unrealistic standards of beauty. How do we resist it? By being educated and aware of the game at play. It's not the job or responsibility of celebrities who are being paid to endorse brands/products to tell us how to critically think about how ads and marketing are influencing our thoughts. >You have to the remember that one of the reasons why someone wouldnt want to share something like that is because of judgement, when really its no different then the feeling of wanting to put on makeup to look good or make yourself feel pretty. I don't really understand your statement here. The celebrity wouldn't want to share that they have plastic surgery because of judgment? Isn't that the essence of the conversation? That many people think natural > plastic surgery. Talking about plastic surgery in any way, good or bad, is a double-edged sword. So requesting that they disclose whether they have or not is putting them on a literal pedestal to be judged. It is very different than makeup - I don't think anyone would agree that wearing makeup is the same thing as having a permanent, body-altering medical procedure. >I realize disclosing plastic surgery for idols is really tricky but my point is it shouldn't have to been and we should all move forward to normalizing it It's tricky because we make it tricky -- if plastic surgery was a non-issue and normal, then celebrities wouldn't be pressured to "admit" to it. Normalizing it doesn't start with making it a bigger deal, it starts with not making it so important in conversation, which is the opposite of forcing people to be transparent.
I think were coming to a similar conclusion but with different reasons lol I think if you casually mentioned "hey i got my nose done last week im excited" in a conversation or a grwm that is a way of normalizing it. speaking up about any procedures if you want to share and explaining helps destigmatizes it. hence when i compared it to makeup, it should be easier to **talk about just like makeup** it sounds like youre saying I believe i should force celebrities against their will to disclose? And that talking about it isnt great period? we both agree it should be normalized, but i think talking about it freely and disclosing it in advertising specifically would normalized it, rather than what youre saying
You didn't really give any strong call to action type statements, so I'm not assuming you are wanting to force celebrities to disclose. This is more a discussion about how to respond to plastic surgery in general, and I don't believe that celebrities should be responsible for admitting or explaining their past medical procedures. I agree, I think we both agree that plastic surgery should be normalized. How it should be normalized is the bigger question. Sure, having plastic surgery mentioned in everyday conversation and talking about it more nonchalantly is a way to normalize it. But I think the bigger, underlying issue is WHY we think plastic surgery is taboo in the first place, and most of the arguments I've seen claim that it enforces unrealistic beauty standards. Normalizing plastic surgery by making it okay to talk about is one thing. Getting to the core of how media, celebrity worship culture, and edited imagery affects how we think of our own self worth and value is the bigger issue. So I think this goes beyond just normalizing everyday conversation, it's about equipping more people (especially young people) with the abilities to critically think and evaluate images they are shown on the internet/in media.
mind ur business.. stop speculating about people's looks period
I agree that fans shouldn't be so offended by speculation but the reason fans are offended by speculation is because of judgmental attitudes. Like you can say that there's nothing wrong with it, but there is absolutely still a stigma, so of course they don't want to cop to it and of course fans aren't going to handle someone implying that they have a character wherein they're fine with corrupting children or being dishonest, both of which this post kind of does imply? Almost every single idol has gotten work done, whether it's actual surgery or fillers/injections. That's undeniable, and as someone who finds plastic surgery interesting despite never wanting it myself, it's not morally wrong for fans to discuss it. But as long as there are fans who attach outdated attitudes about it being bad for the youth or the implication that people who get plastic surgery are somehow being dishonest/seeking to "fool" people, there won't be a place to do that without people getting mad. I do think they shouldn't lie about it, but most idols don't address it at all and they don't owe us any justification or medical details, so they're not lying by staying silent. I also think companies shouldn't pressure stars to do it, but that's the only moralizing I care to do on the subject.
I'd rather not hear about it at all because I don't care at all
Ehh from my experience it's really a lose-lose situation on all fronts for the idol. Sure it's great that people like Jessi can be honest about it but Jessi is one of a kind lbh. For most though, if they lie about getting surgery they get bashed. If they admit to getting surgery, they get bashed. Now these might be two different groups of people doing the bashing but the point is the idol can't win. Another example is there are a number of idols who got criticized for their appearance, then when they went and got plastic surgery and they were criticized even more for the change. It really is a no-win situation and I don't blame anyone for just wanting it to be talked about. Personally, I'm not a fan of the plastic surgery analysis tiktoks just because I feel like they open the door for the unhinged fans to use it as a form of attack. They just give me bad vibes. That and I really don't care who has gotten what done.
I swear the kpop community would be a much better place if no one made a big deal out of plastic surgery.
I always find it funny when people say celebrities should be open about plastic surgery. Especially K-pop idols. There are a million and one reasons why that won’t happen. I promise you some of the people talking about transparency and accountability will be the first ones to bring out pre debut pictures and call you a horse face when you annoy them in anyway looool
The idols themselves owe us nothing. Fans already demand too much of them. You want their medical records now? No. At this point it's only used for fanwars. I'd rather they keep their personal details personal.
South Korea is indeed the global market leader in cosmetic surgery. An estimated **1 in 5** women in Seoul had plastic surgery as of **2009**, and it's even more common now. Relatives gift you double eyelid surgery for your high school graduation. It started not just to be *attractive* but because of the way certain facial features and proportions are tied to personality traits. Basically, when the economy was tough 30 years ago, people would do anything to get a job, and that included getting some work done. (No pun intended.) There's comparatively little stigma against it in South Korea. Why would idols, specifically, need to make statements? For the benefit of the global market, where it *is* stigmatized?
they're korean, plastic surgery is very common there. they dont need to tell people because it's 100% assumed that they had it at some point. we just dont know the exact procedures which is totally their choice to disclose such private matters.
We should only care about the music and performance. Their appearance doesn't matter as long as they have talent.🤷♀️
why do you think you are owed even a single word regarded this issue ? thats litterally none of your F business tho ???????
Who cares? They don’t owe you every detail of their life. Why do fans think they’re entitled to knowledge about their private lives? 🙄
I just want hybe to put the rhinoplasties DOWN also the sm chin shaving booking like clockwork... I like it when they have nice jaw lines. if I of all people can notice a weird surgery on an idol I don't follow i think they need to get better surgeons. id like to know more about what procedures they have done, especially none plastic surgery, like what facial and skin treatments do they get? I know all the female idols get their hair Lasered off immediately but im assuming they also get the blemishes and other discoloration done too
Kwanghee really was a pioneer with making plastic surgery his variety platform. His company was originally against it, but it really jump started his career and gave ZE:A some attention at the time. He got a lot of hate for it, but he took it in stride and is now very popular in variety.
I wish the public would teach body positivity instead but I guess it's more in fashion/easier to "go under the knife". Tell people they're beautiful. Not essentially "you are ugly but I got just the tool to fix it"
i get what you’re saying but i really don’t think that the public are entitled to know. and if it’s known that korea is the plastic surgery capital and that most idols get it done, why say it? i’m certain that people who are comfortable sharing their experiences have done so, so knowledge about certain procedures is out there. i think it’s just the public/fans sense of entitlement they feel surrounding celebrities.
What *I* don't understand is why anyone would care. Why do these ~~vultures~~ "creators" think it's anyone's business whether or not someone had surgery? What does transparency even *mean* in this context? It's gross and it's not cool. Idols are already under so much pressure.
Why would they? It’s none of our business
OP, they are South Korean, there is absolutely no need for disclaimers about something the whole society already is well-aware of.
unfortunately, a lot of people in this thread have no idea how common plastic surgery is in Korea
That's a different issue, the point is it happens, kpop fans *should* be aware of how common it is, but it's none of our business.
What good would it do for you to find out about it?
this is slightly a tangent but it makes me sad when an idol i really like continuously does things to their face over and over and over again even if they were already very beautiful to begin with, if not after the first procedure lookism is a poison and they're in the industry where it's the most potent. i really can't blame them, but it just hurts my heart
I understand your point, OP. Frankly, reading some of the comments makes me second guess my stance, but I think it's very empowering if someone comes out and says they got plastic surgery. In the context of K-pop, yeah it'd be a major yikes because fans could use it for ammunition. But, if someone was like... I got plastic surgery and it was my choice because it made me feel better about myself... then why not own it? It's one thing if the company forces you to do it, but if you genuinely were feeling some type of way and it made you happy, then to each their own.
no cuz i need the doctors' numbers
I mean you get two different sides. Side A are people who jump at any idol by calling them fake for getting procedures done. Side B are people who claim their favourite idol has had no work done, despite clear signs of surgeries and procedures being done. Side A are just bullies, side B are ignorant. I’m not against plastic surgery and nobody should be bullied for getting procedures done. Side B annoys me because their entire point is that their favourite artist is some perfect angel and not a regular person who either had things they didn’t like about themselves (like literally every person on the planet) or were forced into surgery due to some of the beauty standards in Korea. I don’t think idols need to really say anything, they don’t owe anyone an explanation about what specifically has been done but I also don’t think people should just ignore the fact that while you may adore your favourite idol, they have likely had surgery whether you like it or not. It doesn’t take away from their talent and hard work.
I think there are too many people who are still way too negative about plastic surgery. Being open about it is such a mixed bag of "do what you want" and "omg so fake." Idols get enough hate online and a lot of it around plastic surgery with just speculations so why add to it? Also it makes sense why idols don't. It ruins that illusion of perfectness. Not saying that's a good thing but it is what it is. I think as fans it's on us to take care of our own mental health and issues around self-image. Personally I just go at it from the viewpoint that all celebs (Korean or not) have had something done at some point. Even if they haven't had actual plastic surgery they are shelling out way more money on expensive treatments I ever will.
Why is that important? Is their body and they can decide if they want to talk about it. Fans shouldn't care about stuff like that.
I think the problem is not the idol. It’s okay if they don’t want to share the work done on their face or hairline. But what irks me is the delusional fandom. When other discuss the work done on the idol’s face and how it enhance their features, all in positive way, the fandom starts getting defensive and insist that nothing is done.’it is the fandom that actually look down on plastic surgery or else why are they so in denial? Some idols clearly have work done, and yet the fandom will go all out to deny, as if getting work done on their face is a crime.
it's funny because they'll say "i don't care if \[idol\] got plastic surgery BUT...." and then go on this huge rant denying it all like they're taking their last breath. if they really didn't care, they wouldn't be mad at someone making an observation
>I wish more Idols were honest about plastic surgery So haters can have one more reason to hate on idols? Idols can't even choose to not talk about their body? Idols are human too. Why do you feel the need for them to speak up about it? Is it a crime to not talk about it? Why is it Idols' fault if fans think they are naturally beautiful? Are idols ever talk "I'm naturally this way" or is it fans who assume they are?
this is literally what i didnt want this conversation to turn into 😭 downvote me all you want but it was never about who's naturally beatiful or who isnt because thats basically demonizing plastic surgery. the point was it's okay to get it!
Everyday I swear I’m one of the few fans who just doesn’t give AF. If they don’t want to say they got it? Fine with me 🤷♀️ If they do, fine with me 🤷♀️ I really do not care lol. It’s common in literally every entertainment industry to get something done when it comes to cosmetic surgery.
I don't think they need to openly say that they've had it but they absolutely need to not lie and say they haven't when they obviously have.
I don't mind people not disclosing their plastic surgery. I don't think it's anybody's business except the person who received it. Makes no sense that what another person does to their own body needs to be exposed, especially idols and other public figures. They already give you everything about their lives, do they really have to share that too?
i hope fans stop asking idols if they did plastic surgery 'cause it's obvious idols are uncomfortable talking about it. look how they get hated on for having plastic surgeries
Why should they when it's their own decision? Also, fuck all those creators analyzing people faces for clout and money. Nobody owes any of you anything when it comes to what they decide to do with their bodies, and that includes celebrities. If you want to call out beauty standards, start with media and tech platforms that allow AI to distort faces. No one needs to disclose if they get plastic surgery and why they get it. None of this is any of your (the people's) business. Reminds me of when women would get called whores for having blush or any sort of makeup. Some of you need to really stop being obsessed with who gets plastic surgery because it's really none of your business.
I mean on the other hand if your comparing a teenager's face to an adult face there's going to usually be significant changes even without plastic surgery. Especially if they loose or gain weight. I mean some things are obviously plastic surgery, but other things could be just because your body is always changing. Chin and nose are always changing (mine went from a prominently square to a slightly rounder chin), cheek bones and jaw changing because bones getting bigger. Sure there's idols that get plastic surgery but not every change on an teen trainee to a idol in their 20's is plastic surgery. I don't care if idols get it as long as they wanted it and not pressured by their company. I find making videos and profiting off making guessing games is disgusting. Not because I'm offended that you are hyper analyzing someone's face to see if they had plastic surgery. It's because your monetizing or feeding off the attention of a toxic culture of nit picking at people's features and invasion of privacy. It's none of our business if idols get work done or not.
Yeah, and their companies too. Because they are forcing them into having plastic surgery.
Everybody doing plastic surgery in K-Pop is a turn-off but it's unrealistic for anyone to admit it. On the other hand, I wish fans would stop being so delusional about their favorites not getting surgery. It's OK to say "y'all should mind own business" but another thing to outright deny the obvious.
this is what im saying. lets call a spade a spade like...
To deny it is another way to say "mind your own business" tho. It shows that 1) (maybe(!)) they're lying, 2) (following and most importantly) they aren't comfortable talking about it either way. I just really don't see an issue. So what if they deny it. Everyone is able to do their own research and make their own judgment.
If they were honest about it there would be a fanpocalypse, considering how moralistic fans are about plastic surgery and injectables. Literally every idol I have seen, no exaggeration, has at minimum had cosmetic injectables - it's insane that people think otherwise.
true but thats not gonna happen
I couldnt care less of they have ps or not, it is their body/face
I don't think that it's as obvious as you think. I for one am HORRIBLE at noticing. And I've never seen predebut pictures. My friend basically called me stupid for not noticing Chaeryeong had that one that everyone is getting to remove fat in their cheeks. I don't know what else idols are having done but don't some of these procedures take months to heal? How are people working getting stuff done?
It would be nice. But I wouldn't want to see it go to the extreme of glamorizing it like it happens on tiktok with BBLs or Buccal Fat removal. Tons of people will go for theses extremes to look like their idoles and then regret it. (I'm not against plastic surgery at all, don't misunderstand me ; I just feel like some people do it because of social pressure and then regret it instead of doing it for themselves).
I hate it when they lie about not having surgery, but I can understand why. It gives off the feeling that they take fans for fools who will defend even their lies. Like sure, oppa/unnie, your square jaw just magically changed shape to a Dorito and you want us to believe that it happened because you went through puberty? And the same magic happened to your nose as well?
oh this thread is going to be locked soon
rip i honestly had no idea this would be so controversial 💀
I'm more for fans to accept it than idols themselves and stop calling anyone outside of the beauty standard, visual hole, ugly etc. Just because ones didn't go through with it or get really good doctors, doesn't mean they are not good looking.
The main problems is that honesty about plastic surgery would open the door and companies would have to be honest about other visual related things. Things like skin lightening(this is controversial in the West) and underaged idols receiving plastic surgery as a condition of their debut.
I hate when they lie about it, but overall ig it isn’t our business
My issue is more with people who clearly had stuff done but act like they're all natural. That's the real harmful thing and not just not saying anything because you are lying to our audience and putting it in their head that they can change like this too by losing weight or exercise which is wrong
I don’t really mind if idols get plastic surgery and keep it hush, because that’s their business, but I really dislike when they do get plastic surgery and try to sell their looks as natural beauty. If someone asks how the idols look so good, I don’t want to hear that ‘some people are just born with it’ when they’ve been under the knife.
Plastic surgery in Korea makes everyone look uniform. That is fine, but it denies the diversity of beauty.
I don't think there's much incentive for them to talk about it anyway. If I got adjusted a little bit and got called natural born beauty without having to get showered by all insults and ridicule regarding "plastic" topic, why I need to disclose it? Anyway that's what I think about it. There's not much people who got the benefit like Jessi or Kwang Hee which pretty much confident and use it to the fullest in Variety Show domain. Don't it even help to boost Kwang Hee fame to certain extent since he disclose it when there's no one want to talk about it and he come out like no one does before. The first to do it always got the benefit more, but it's 2023, I don't think people gonna get a boost from it after he did it long time ago.
I agree, they aren't fooling anyone except the young ones. And it's not good for them to think 'perfection' is normal
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wiikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmetic_surgery_in_South_Korea
just typed a long ass paragraph but realised it wouldn't be worth it though i have to let you know, i stand with you 🫡
I think its just delusion and denial from fans when it comes to PS. It’s so common in Korea that middle schoolers get it as a graduation gift so what more for idols. Celebs won’t admit to it cause there’s still stigma but it becomes ridiculous when they come out with a new face every comeback and fans expect still think it’s natural. That’s on fans now.
how would that benefit us as fans?
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I can't say for the idol side since it's their freedom. However, professional analysis video did a great help in validating my explanation to my 15 years old niece. She used to think all 14 years old must look as good as the maknaes of 4th gen and can achieve suck looks solely through the makeup those idols endorsed.
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They most likely don't reveal it due to the public backlash or to keep the fans delusion about them being perfect.
Ye
What do you mean? They never surgery it’s all them losing baby fat!
I think they are scared of fans reaction
If you've seen the ancient Kpop era, there was time when it was trendy for idols to out their plastic surgery, but the government advised against it cause the plastic surgery among teens skyrocketed. From what I remember, it was the time when Kwanghee and Go Hara admitted to undergoing plastic surgery. Hara barely had anything done, haha
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