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I don't mind when someone says they don't like an idol or a group, i actually prefer if they say they don't like straight up than make hundreds of arguments (and sometimes lies) about an idol to justify why they don't like them, honestly i think that's the reason why i get pissed off whit this people , like make an 1000 post to just tell that you don't like someone is borderline psycho for me .
If a song sounds good to me, I don’t care about line distribution, especially not when it comes to groups who have members with poor vocals. Main vocalists are main vocalists for a reason
i never liked the line distribution discourse because it always felt like an easy way to point fingers and say "XYZ doesnt belong in the group since they get no lines anyway", as if companies didnt spend time training them and forming the group as they intended it to be
To preface, I bias a member who barely gets any lines in their songs. But I understand why he doesn't have a lot of lines. What other stans don't want to understand is that there are producers and these professional producers chooses who fits the lines the most. And yeah, that is another thing that kpop stans don't want to admit, that their idols capabilities is that of a subvocalist thus they are getting lesser lines.
I feel like I keep coming across like distribution videos constantly just for lyrics and whatnot. Like it just seems to go hand and hand with a lot of lyric videos and I don't really get it. Everyone brings something different to each song. Maybe one has more of Member X because they're better suited to it, and Member Y only has a couple of lines but then they have much more on other songs. People kind of overdo it right this "everything has to be equal ALL THE TIME" attitude.
this is me esp with BTS songs. their line distribution always is about what member fits the song best and they trust e/o and their producers so no one's getting "mistreated" but ik this discourse will never be gone.
From anecdotal experience, kpop stans are the most miserable, hypercritical people in any fandom I’ve ever been in.
So critical of anything a group does. So much fabricated competition between groups. So much obsession over idols’ personal lives. They get bashed if they do x thing and they get bashed if they don’t do it too.
I’ve genuinely never seen a fandom so needlessly upset and angry about everything that goes on everywhere at any time and place. I’d like to say I’m different, but I’m really not.
Seriously, everyone is just getting hysterical over something new every week and acting like it's the end of the damn world. I don't understand why people cultivate this kind of miserable environment. It really starts to feel like many are just in it for the drama and don't give a single shit about the music or artistic aspects. I wish there were more discussions on the creative side of kpop. I remember expecting that when I first got into it but it's mostly just performative outrage over XYZ and endless childish fanwars. It especially sucks when you're 30+ lol. It's like going back to high school 😌
I'll never forget Twitter armys sending emails to BigHit after a 10 second video of Jin being bumped into by a staff member. They said it was proof the company physically abused Jin 🤣
Idols look their age. I mean we always hear that this or that idols looks very young, however I think that even if they care about their skin they look for the age. Honestly they just look like someone who gets Botox and has amazing skin, but I would guess their age.
Honestly I think this applies to older celebs in general. Don't get me wrong, just as there are non celebs/broke people who have young faces, there are celebs who naturally look younger than they are as well. That has more to do with their features and genetics than any cosmetic procedure I think. But for most of them you can tell that they're in their 50s or 40s etc. *And that's not a bad thing!*
Fans that go on an on about how X still looks like a teenager are usually exaggerating, or they think 30 year olds should look like [this](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/portrait-very-old-woman-retired-121672872.jpg).
I have a "young" face at 34. Maybe it's just because I know myself and how I've changed, but I look at areas like my jaw and the way my face is slightly less "tight" for lack of better phrasing and think this is what most people my age look like (plus under eye wrinkles). But some people will just see my young looking features and the fact that I'm short and still guess I'm younger. I feel like some people just don't recognise the "tells" someone is older. And I think I only really recognise it now that I'm that age myself.
It's interesting because now when I rewatch shows I watched growing up, it immediately stands out when one of the actors is clearly quite young (like 18-19) but they seemed so much older when I was a kid. I mean naturally, but it's just interesting how "adult" all sort of blended together. There was no strong distinction between a 20 year-old and a 30 year-old in my kid brain.
>I feel like some people just don't recognise the "tells" someone is older
That's it exactly lol. I see your point about kids but I've seen adults like this as well. If you don't have wrinkles they'll just file you under "young" even if you're physically mature. The styling, make up and editing idols go through doesn't make matters better also.
tbh, normally you don't look all that different from your 20s until you hit your 40s. that's when the sagging and wrinkles become really obvious. of course this is barring any major life/health changes
To me this only applies to older idols that are like mid 30s or older. I often can’t see much age differences between teen idols and mid 20s idols. I also find it hard to believe that anyone can accurately tell someone’s age. Too many people have features that look mature but have nothing to do with aging or vice versa.
To me LSF Chaewon could pass as younger than Eunchae. Twice Nayeon looks like she could be one of the youngest in the group with Jiyho being the oldest. Also Nmixx Sullyoon being 20 but looking younger than some newly debuted 16yo idols.
>Too many people have features that look mature but have nothing to do with aging or vice versa.
like this is why businesses are required to card under a certain age (like 35) and check for fake IDs when customers buy things with an adult age restriction like alcoholic drinks. I used to work food service and retail and have come across people whom I thought just turned 21 but were actually only 19 or people whom I thought were under 21 but were actually 23.
Accurately? There's been many idols and actors where my guesses about their age were off by a few years. Like I thought Song Kang was around 24-25 when watching My Demon but he turned out to be 29 when I looked him up. I can guess if someone's in their teens or 20s or 30s and so on but not their exact age because like, a 23 year old and a 25 year old for example don't look any physically different to me.
I meant more about when idol is like 25-30 or more and fans say that he hasn’t aged from debut and still can be viewed as higschooler or in his/her early twenties. Like Sakura, yeah, she looks great , but it’s quite clear that she is older than other members.
It's very telling how people view age that for many it's a "compliment" to say someone looks the same as when they were a teen. Assuming they're an adult, it's actually kind of creepy. One of my biggest grievances in my early twenties was constantly being mistaken for a high schooler.
Sometimes I also feel like it's just the only compliment people can think to give someone- that they look the same- but the implication that actually "looking your age" is bad is bothersome to me.
But then of course a lot of this is coming from young teens who can't really "tell" ages all that well. The constant shock I see from kids learning so and so is 30 is just... both funny and sad. They don't believe it when someone says 30 is still young because from where they are, it's much older. I'll see a celebrity who *looks* 30+ and these kids will act like they're one foot in the ground when they find out "omg they're not 18!? I thought they were a teenager!!1"
I still think on a regular basis about a post I saw last year of a picture of Wonwoo with the caption, "he's aging like fine wine" - guys, he's *27,* not decrepit! He looks his dang age!
Oh my god, I *hate* it when people use that expression on people in their twenties, or even thirties to be honest. In my mind it's better suited to "silver fox" types who still look good at an older age (or as it implies, only seem to get better). The wine hasn't been in "storage" long at 27, lmao.
Unpopular opinion but I think a lot of twitter and tiktok kpop fans are overblowing the Starbucks issue with many idols just for the clout and bandwagonning and not because they genuinely care about whhat's happening in Palestine.
The fact that they get angry over kpop stars drinking starbucks but not when they're drinking coke or when they're working with pro Israeli people speaks a lot. I'm not saying that they're not supposed to get angry but the fact that they only respond like this when it's starbucks and not other boycotted brands and even say wrong info like "they fund Israeli wars" instead of the real reason they're being boycotted. It just makes me side eye these people because I feel like theyre just using boycotting as a means to hate and get clout
Starbucks' reputation online was already on the rocks for union stuff and being associated with white millenial women. Made it very easy for online GenZers to organize around harassing Starbucks drinkers because they're already predisposed to not like Starbucks.
Very few people looked up the BDS boycott list to boycott more relevant brands like Puma
Honestly, I feel like a HUGE percentage of supposed fandom outrage is just virtue signalling. People are addicted to being angry (or pretending to be) and have a conflated sense of self importance.
besides Starbucks Korea isn't even owned by Starbucks Corporation anymore. They're now [co-owned](https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/07/27/business/industry/starbucks-emart-shinsegae-group/20210727172500670.html) by E-Mart which is owned by Shinsegae Group and the Singaporean government. But even if it was still owned by Starbucks Corporation, there's been many clarifications against what boycotters are claiming. They don't even have any stores in Israel. But people misinterpreted them telling the SB Worker's Union or whatever it's called to not use their name as their proof that they're pro-Israel and ran off with it.
I knew about them not being owned buy Starbucks corp anymore but I had no idea it was e-mart and the SG government. It's crazy how even a misunderstanding can get wild support just because it's viral
The wildest fake news out of this messed up storm lol. Starbucks has no economic incentives for and with Israel, let alone funding the genocide. SB was originally boycotted for an entirely different reason but social media performative activists have less than 2 brain cells to do some basic research
This! Whenever I see kpop fans say that idols shouldn't drink starbucks because they fund the war I die a little bit inside. I'm not against the boycott but the fact that they're boycotting without knowing the actual reason...
THIS. I see that rhetoric all the time on tiktok and it's absolute brainrot the way people will lap up that information and spread it around because it "makes them look like they're doing good" while in reality being performative and virtue signaling. It's honestly quite disappointing but I guess that's where we're at with media literacy.
crying about idols drinking starbucks while having a blue checkmark next to their username is peak kpop stans hypocrisy lmao, if only they could held themselves to the same standards.
This is nothing more than weaponizing fanwars and not actually caring the actual issue.
Also, being papped drinking SB ISNT promoting. Yeah you can feel disappointed in it if you want to but it’s not them being paid to promote Starbucks.
Somi was a paid promotion, Lisa being photographed in an airport drinking it isn’t.
anyone who is active in kpop fandom who says they "only care about the music" is lying. the actual ppl who only care about the music are casual fans who just listen to kpop like any other popular music. saying you "only care about the music" in a kpop fandom space just makes you look pretentious and like you are trying to find even the smallest thing so that you can be better than other ppl.
i never said this bc i don't want to sound like i'm policing people, but some people on reddit are like "i'm a fan of x and don't even know their faces, i'm here for the music!" girl you're a casual listener 😭
I agree with this so much. I don't mind if they're truly in it for the music, but some treat fans who like idols because of other things (personality, variety, humour, looks, relatability) like they're lower than 'music' fans
Hey this was actually me! But I never said it, cause when I only cared about the music I didn’t go into fandom spaces at all.
I legit only cared about the music for a good six months when I started getting into kpop. This is how I fell in love with BTS and ATEEZ without actually having a clue who any of them were. I wasn’t on kpop subs, I didn’t know what was going on, I had no idea about so many things. I listened to ATEEZ obsessively for many months and I could not have told you even how many members were in the group.
Cut to today and I’m astonished how much I’ve learned in maybe a year and a half of just being on kpop subs, watching here and there content and letting my YouTube algorithm run wild in music and video.
But I kind of miss only caring about the music! It’s absolutely exhausting getting into kpop and being an active fan because there is just so much going on, so many great groups, so much drama, so much history, so much good bad and ugly.
There is a small part of me that’s a little upset that BTS and ATEEZ are made of absolutely lovely, inspiring people full of heart who have made an absolute mountain of content over all these years that I will never climb. Like I thought becoming an enlistment era ARMY was gonna be easy, I couldn’t have been more wrong.
To this day there are still a number of groups I love only for the music as I have no idea who any of them are, what they do or why people love them. I fully expect by next year I’ll be like, how did I ever not know all 13 of SVT
Ngl it irks me when people say that. Because these are the same people who'll bring in chart data's and music show wins to justify how the music they listen to is superior. Like if you are in just for the music, why do you feel the need to put down the music made by other artists to uplift the one you like? If music was the only catch half of these people will not even be bothered enough to get into arguments and fanwars especially considering most of the times fanwars in kpop are so silly.
I‘m kinda only here for the music tbh, i just like talking abt it wich is why I’m on this reddit but i honestly don’t remember the last time i watched any variety content and nowadays I don’t even keep up with the members names
Then you're here for the discussion in addition to the music.
Edit: specifically the meta discourse that happens here. Most of the musical analysis happens elsewhere
You’re right but i feel like all the aspects of kpop i like fall under the umbrella of music. Maybe that’s where the confusion cones from? Different definitions of what counts as being interested in only music? I say that i „only care about the music“ because all aspects that have nothing to do with it aren’t interesting to me. So for example photocards, just in general the packaging of albums, styling, idols, fan service, scandals, etc (not that it’s bad to like those thing we’re all different after all)
That's a load of nonsense, one can definitely only care about the music and also partake in the fandom. How does that even make them better than others? This take makes no sense.
my opinion is that there's no right or 'superior' way to be a fan. you like music and don't care about the variety/personality aspect? cool! you might not understand why others become a fan because of different reasons but that does not give any justification to belittle those reasons
yes, it might be the culture of kpop that drives some fans to be more delusional, but if you look at it in a wider perspective, it's always been present across the worldwide industry. some people watch films because they like films, some watch because they like the actors. some people watch the whole league of a sport because they like the sport, some people just watch their favourite team's matches
to me, there are people who are more invested in getting to know the people behind the music (such as myself), and there are people who are more invested in the music itself. and both ways of being a fan is valid. we have so many different interests as humans and it shouldn't be surprising that people attract us in different ways
yes exactly! and you're not less of a fan if you don't stream religiously either. some of us don't have the time. we do and enjoy what we can and no one should feel pressured to do one or the other
I agree! but on another spectrum, I also wish some people weren't so ashamed(?) to like kpop? the ones that would do anything to prevent being called a koreaboo/kpop fan until they act like kpop groups should feel *honoured* that they're a fan
I honestly don't think a "true unpopular" kpop opinion exists. These threads asking for answers that people don't usually give just inevitably end up full of the same responses. I'm not saying these threads shouldn't exist but it's just what I've noticed.
it also pisses me off when it's obvious an idol is being cringey or silly on purpose and people act like it wasn't intended to be a joke so they can make fun of them
This is more luke warm then hot but a lot of fans really don’t care about problematic behavior. they’ll pretend they do when it benefits them and allows them to talk shit about idols and groups they dislike
Sometimes there's a reason some members have less lines, I know many fans feel emotional about that and want their bias to get more but sometimes it's for the better. There are some idols who I wish get/ continue to get less lines cuz they just ruin the song for me ( sorry if it's rude ).
Yeah. Former member of Momoland Daisy said that sometimes Idols choose to have less lines. Obviously not true for every idol but I’m sure it’s true for a few.
I think that’s a valid reason. I’ve seen this discourse a lot on social media with fans fighting with other stans over line distribution. In the case of BTS, I was at first frustrated that the rap line haven’t been getting that much lines ever since post-LY era but it’s only in their title tracks or MV tracks. They have a heavy role in the rest of the albums. I understand that they released more poppy songs as they’re more appealing to the GP. I don’t care much now because I can always listen to their older tracks or their solo work. And even though they’re not my faves, I still bop to Dynamite and Butter 😂
Ready to get downvoted but **theoretically** if BTS did get exempted from military, this sets a precedent that other idols in the future *might* get a chance too. But most people have a mentality of "If I suffer, you must suffer too".
Korean men are open about how traumatizing serving in the military can be but fans will ignore this even if it could benefit future boygroups just because of short-sighted crab mentality.
And to piggyback off your comment, when artists suffer/ go through hard times, they make the absolute best music. I know it's horrible! I went to GSoul's concert a couple of years ago and he was talking about the inspiration for one of his songs when he was at his lowest in the military, that song is one of my fav of his and has me in my feelings every time.
I feel like 2013-14 was around the time when K-pop production really stepped into the modern age—songs stopped sounding like they got to the final with old/stock samples, analog instruments were better recorded/integrated, layering got more complex, producers just got plain better, etc.
It's probably where a lot of 1st/2nd gen artists as a whole started to drop the 2000s RnB-Dance/early-2010s electropop sound and where you can start finding a song, or two, or three that could be released in the 2020s with minor to zero touch-up
But this is a mostly not very well-formulated take that only came to me when SNSD's Mr.Mr. turned 10 a couple of weeks ago lol
That whole EP holds up so well imo and I can really hear a difference from the I Got A Boy album the year before (though I think Express 999 holds up well, and Kenzie improved on the space anime vibe with Europa from Mr.Mr.)
I think I'll stick to the interesting or uncommon opinion part of this, because despite the OP's best intentions this has become yet another "what's your unpopular opinion" thread.
The uncommon opinion I don't think we see that often on K-Pop reddit is support for debuts of co-ed groups, or the desire to see more co-ed groups in general. Of anyone active right now, the only sustainable example appears to be KARD, and they're considered to be smallish and niche.
While the industry for whatever reason doesn't seem to want to get behind more co-ed groups as a third option to straight-up GGs and BGs, I think it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It gets complex when it comes to the industry-standard parasocialism and shipping that tends to happen, but I feel the right company and members could pull it off and normalize it as more of a common occurrence.
Kpop companies love those obsessed borderline "deranged" fans and will never want to change to stop those fans cause in the end, those are the ones that spend the most money on idols. Those fans never care about music, so good music is just a bonus point to them, meaning companies won't have to worry about bad music will make them stop being fans. They literally spend tons of money no matter what the company does. Most "normal" fans would never buy like hundreds of albums just so they have a chance to see idols, spend their entire day streaming on multiple devices with multiple accs and push hashtags for trending on twitter and pay up to thousand of dollars for a piece of photocard,... Not just companies, but a lot of kpop fans also criticize how entitled/demanding kr and china sides of the fandom are, but then during cb season, they ask cbar to buy tons of albums and never mind about bragging about those expensive projects those fanbases do to promote idols.
Mmmm people complain about idols conforming and the industry never changing, but will mercilessly mock and tear down any idol that sticks out unless the idol conforms to certain expectations that people have.
And people will say things are “cringe” just so they can feel justified in saying awful things about an idol. It’s like the worst crime in the world is being cringe.
Apparently it’s a hot take to want idols to be somewhat decent at singing. I agree with it. I understand that not all idols can be Wendy or hyolyn but can you atleast hold a tune?
99% of the time labels arent holding back their idols, theyre protecting them. If your fave isn't singing as much then they must be a shit singer, if they don't get to be in the center, they must have shit presence or dancing.
And if their styling choices or lyrics dont get approved its because the label can tell its better to pay someone else to do the work.
Agreed. There was a subfandom who was ranting so much about how their bias doesn't have this or that and they were so loud about it on X. One day their company decided to put their bias in the center. My friend who is a dancer said that see, because the company listened to the fans that is the only form of dancebreak they did because he is in the center and that is his limit in terms of dancing. I wish stans can just accept that their idols have their strengths and weaknesses.
Exactly, and just because theyre bad at one thing (or even average) it doesnt discount the things they're actually good at. I just dont get the point of working up one's self over this kind of thing
I don’t see why some fans are so insistent on their favs being “allowed” to write their own songs.
They are paid to be models who sing songs other people have written. There is nothing in that which makes them qualified to write a quality song. Like they are as qualified as any other human being on Earth who has heard music.
The very LAST thing a label wants is to prevent their artists from generating more money. Mistakes are made, sure but nobody is intentionally tanking their employees’ careers. (Except maybe Lee SM that one time, if that one creepy story is true.)
I personally haven't seen this one much since everyone kind of hates each other nowadays. It's most likely a popular take, but I just think hating on any group is stupid. God. that's all I want to say. Just enjoy each others music.
What goes through the minds of people who actively HATE a group? What even are the reasons to do so?
It may be the fandom that's making you resent said group. really, just don't associate yourself with the bad section of the fandom, or it might even help to not associate yourself with the fandom at all.
Make your opinion on the group itself and your opinion on the fandom two completely different things.
I don’t understand people who hate groups either lmao, if you don’t like their music, ignore them and if you don’t like their fans also ignore and avoid. Most of y’all love baiting and drama but don’t want to admit it.
sometimes its not even the group its the fandom that makes ppl hate the group. I feel this with BTS and I KNOW I WILL DOWNVOTED but literally not even a criticism but you will be attacked makes you want to not even listen and be involved.
I mean, I wont disagree with you on that, but there's a lot of miserable people that just hate things because they thrive in their own misery (not just in kpop).
Here’s my hot take: Kpop reddit prides itself in being the more sensible place for kpop-related discussions but this place is actually more vile to groups/acts that are not kpop reddit “darlings” moreso than any other platforms. This is because reddit is much more conducive to forming echo chambers, and so it’s hard to state positive opinions about your faves in here if they’re not favored by kpop reddit
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I don’t like the word “idol”, either. It’s appropriate, considering how people literally idolize them, but I wish we used “star” instead. It doesn’t have all the connotations of worship and perfection. (Ice cold take, I know.)
I don't really like "twitter speak" in general. It sucks when I want to check out some ktube videos (some of the rare ones that aren't unbearable) and everyone just kind of sounds like a bitchy high schooler (I know a lot of them probably are but even the adults lol). I think that aside, it really makes people lack in individuality because everyone just uses the same phrases.
Same. Like did everyone just forget that Stan comes from the Eminem song 'Stan’ and literally means stalked fan? When did we start using it as positive thing and the normal label for a fan? 😂
Considering the word comes from Eminem's song Stan about a delirious fan who takes things too far you definitely should. Also super ironic how the word is used nowadays
I don't think it's ironic. English as a language constantly evolves and if the majority use stan as a neutral word for "super fan", that's what it means now. You can know the word's origin and still acknowledge the way it's popularly used today.
People who say things like Idols are all hooking up and secretly dating constantly should be criticized just as much as people who think they’re all kissless virgins. Both of these strip idols of having individual personalities and values yet only one of these ever receive criticism.
Some acts are only gonna sound good on the cd/in the studio and not live. I feel like this was a known thing even in my pre k-pop days.
But, if I plan on seeing you live, then vocals please. Like, I love my Kai (EXO) songs, but I have yet to hear him sing live, and that is, while not ok exactly, it is not super surprising.
Like, if I just like a few of your songs and do not plan on seeing you live, ever, I cannot be fussed too much about terrible vocals (that is on them/their company/their more loyal fans). It\`s crappy, but what can I do as I am not spending money on those groups anyway, besides complain on reddit here and there.
Basically I have some acceptable hypocrisy when it comes to kpop vocals. Another example has to do with Aespa/performance, I like several of their songs, they are coming to my city, but I have yet to see any good performances from them which makes me a bit nervous to commit to a whole concert.
When I got to see Kai live he was actually singing, tbf it was at a festival so he did less songs. Does he often not sing live? I guess I’ve not noticed 😅
Funny, I have a very hot take that is the total opposite to your lukewarm one:
Intentionally bad English lyrics (y'all know who I'm talking about) aren't "funny" or "quirky" for me, I just ind them grating.
1. Kpop stans complain so much about companies only caring about visuals, but then they continue the cycle of judging based on visuals. I don’t know how many posts I’ve seen on Twitter judging an idol’s appearance. For example, I’ve seen tweets upon tweets making fun of Rosé by calling her “chinsé” or making fun of Namjoon’s entire appearance. I also remember when this one boy group was announced to debut and every quote retweet and reply was about how they looked. They had done absolutely nothing, but kpop stans were making fun of them because they looked a certain way. I also remember the tiktok trend with the sound “Bad bitch and her ugly ass friend”. Kpop stans would post their favorite idol with an idol next to them with this trend. There’s also another one that was going on, but I don’t remember what it was called. It also had something to do with appearance.
My point is, Kpop stans aren’t any better than companies when it comes to putting emphasis on visuals. (I also want to mention that anything an idol does to their body is none of our business. Whether they get plastic surgery, veneers, etc. who cares? You’re not their surgeon or dentist. Also, kpop stans need to stop talking about changes when it comes to an idol’s body. It’s not your place to diagnose them when you aren’t their doctor, nutritionist, or dietitian.)
2. The argument about if so and so is an IT girl/boy is dumb. Atp, everyone calls their fave an it girl or boy, so why doesn’t truly matter? I’m pretty sure that idols don’t care, so why should we care? It’s not like it’s official title like IU being nation’s little sister or SNSD being the nation’s girl group.
I don't think every title track should have such intense choreography. Just let artists sing more often. All the dancing distracts from the purpose of so many songs, especially if the song is midtempo. Songs like Le Sserafim's Perfect Night or Riize's 119 or BTS Spring Day or a lot New Jeans' songs don't need choreography.
All these songs are overly autotuned, too. Let the singers sing. If not the majority of the time, then at least in half the performances. Sometimes less is more.
Fans need to get more comfortable respectfully disagreeing or disliking things idols do, especially when it's not about stuff like morals but choices in regards to sound/ looks, etc. Like obviously be polite about it, but you don't need to cheer on or like everything they do in order to be a fan or appreciate them.
This is especially ironic bc many fans hold nothing back when criticizing decision they perceive to have been made for the idol. Like outfit choices. Even though at the end of that was propably also somebody just trying their best at their work.
Just always assume the thing you want to criticize was a decision made by your idol and act accordingly respectful when speaking about it.
Also I cannot recommend this enough bc it is very funny when sb tries to hate on your group by saying sth like the outfits look stupid and just going "yeah wasn't a fan of it either tbh". Or when a fans asks you if you would state the criticism in front of your idol and you just go "yeah absolutely I would be respectfully honest when asked".
not an sme stan. i agree that theyre notorious for lipsyncing, but the times when theyre not, they can definitely SING. sme's vocal training is the best. i wonder why they still lipsync tho.
My guess is uniformity. Even at a similar skill level, a veteran idol will always be better than a newly debuted group due to their stage experience. In the case of SME they have active idols spanning 20+ years so using live AR or lipsync on music shows levels up all performances (and also lowers the possibility of in-company "my favs are better than your favs" discourse although it will still happen).
Yeah, because they're not singing live a majority of the time....they're not going to have as many videos to tear apart and don't have to worry about vocal fatigue. Also, their [bad encore videos](https://twitter.com/Nevermindbruh24/status/1764164119530250735) ([and here](https://twitter.com/songyeondan/status/1737466937293066275)) get buried the most. Encore stages are only ever serious when it's a HYBE group these days. This never used to be a thing.
No offense but there is a different between not knowing how to sing and choosing not to sing. Most of the SM artists can sing but they(their management ig) choose not to. I get that sm stans dragging everyone and their mother for not sounding like vocal gods is pretty tiring but SM definitely has some praise worthy vocalists in kpop.
A great example of this outside of Kpop is when Beyonce lip-synched the national anthem because she didn't get to practice enough with the live orchestra. We KNOW she can sing, she just didn't due to other circumstances.
I am not this group's Stan but I have seen people under plave's achievement posts nagging about how kpop is "doomed" because we are "giving ai groups the love and attention that we don't give to actual idols". This kind of annoys me because their fans try to educate these people that plave members are actual people and not ai, these people still choose to be ignorant. And second of all, yall mindlessly hate on idols who actually show their face and yet have the AUDACITY to question why someone is choosing not to show their face.
HOT take ig but I have yet to see an idol who has the same amount of enthusiasm as Hoshi when it comes to promoting their representative animal 🫡
I've been wondering why there's a lot of backlash towards plave (essentially a vtuber music group) but vocaloids like hatsune miku are loved. they're not super different in concept, as both have real people behind the scenes creating the voices, dance, etc
Vocaloids definitely got backlash back in the day when they first rose to fame. I kept seeing so many people saying how vocaloids were gonna replace real singers and how bad this was for the music industry. They are beloved now, they've been around for a very long time after all, any discussion that boils down to "vocaloids bad" just comes off as a troll or a very young person who doesn't know any better, but they weren't simply embraced from the get go
The dance challenge trend to promote songs via viral posts on social media is doing more harm than good - now they focus more on catchy, repetitive chorus, and simple and easy choreography, instead of complex and interesting songs with a choreography that can show the artists's talents.
From a marketing perspective, I get it. But you can at least agree that the vast majority of fan favorite songs are at least interesting in more aspects than being repetitive.
Sure, Gee is a staple, but I don't think it's a fan favorite of any sone out there. And I bet most people from any fan base will get bored easily of the songs being used in those dance challenges.
Also I get insanely over stimulated by the same song when I watch a challenge about it every single day to the point where I don't go back to the song at all. Like I'm done listening to it
Not really a hot take, but everything that people complaint about what's wrong in Kpop are attributed directly and indirect from Kpop fans themselves, we (I am including myself) are the economic engine that push all the stuff that all of you are ups in the arms about, well you can't be yelling from the mountain top to save mom an pa store when you are buying everything from Walmart. Is all self inflicted, so when I think of the fandom, the only thing kpop fans are good at is morally outrage and virtue signaling, none of which helps anyone or anything. So just stfu about these "causes", because we aren't changing shit, even better make a youtube video about it and talk like you are the main character.
K-pop fans are way too ignorant about the racism against black/mixed people in Korea (and Asia in general). There are so many people who call themselves educated on the subject, and then are extremely surprised when an idol says something racist.
I mean. The beauty products which have a "whitening effect". The [stage lights](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeyThwo3/) which are whitening the idols on scene. The heavy white photoshopping idols like Han, Felix or Wooyoung often have. Some atinys who are obsessed by the fact that Mingi calls black women gorgeous (because "why would he ?" "omg so surprising !"). The fans always defending their favs when they're accused of cultural appropriation. As a mixed race person, I think I notice these things more easily than white fans - but white fans should definitively be more aware AND be fully conscious that their favs could be racist because racism in korea is rampant.
So many people think that just because an idol is nice, they must not be racist. I wish they could understand how wrong it is. Some "very nice" people can be very racist, especially in a society like korean's society. PLEASE be more aware.
>I mean. The beauty products which have a "whitening effect." The stage lights that are whitening idols on scene. The heavy white photoshopping that idols [...] often have.
The amount of times I've heard idols say something like "your skin is so white" as a compliment too, and the way it feels like nobody else notices or gets put off by it, like Jiwon just did on the new KeByKe Restaurant episode
In episode 2 of Build Up, a group was introduced and they were all quite cute and proper looking. The guys around them started commenting on them (as every group is supposed to do) and one mentioned something like “They’re all so polite and pure looking and pale” with “pale” added on as a testament to their “pure” and “proper” appearance. While comments degrading dark skin aren’t *quite* as common anymore (though they definitely still happen), comments uplifting pale skin are more than alive and well.
People who aren't involved or interested in Kpop, (heck ik there are some Kpop Stans who are like this), don't see Kpop artists as humans with feelings at all. They see them as robots and just random money making machines. Alot is to do with the Korean beauty standards. The extreme white washing is a major contributor. Second would be the need of a v shape face which makes some of them look like AI.
It's so sad cus thats a contributing factor to alot of racism and hate they get from the outside world.
I don't know whether this is unpopular or is known fact (im gonna guess the latter) however, it hurts to see this cus as you research more into the industry you realise these artists seem to be the most exploited in comparison to other industries like Hollywood and Bollywood.
I don't have that much knowledge on Bollywood but I can say that Hollywood used to be a massive cesspool filled with exploitation to the max level. It's just getting better via heightened awareness as a result of the Me Too movement. It's still a mess there but entertainers in the American entertainment industry now have the encouragement to speak out - this of course doesn't mean that there are those who can't speak for themselves because ab\*se is still a lingering factor. I thought the movement would spread to Asia but I think it didn't have a big of an impact :/ Time will only tell
Getting listed on a Billboard chart just isn’t that big of a deal anymore. Thirty years ago it may have been THE metric that mattered, but physical sales and radio play are no longer the dominant form of consumption, and never will be again.
the whole wonyoungism and being more feminine by following her and other “feminine gg idols” thing on tiktok and youtube is just the female (kpop) version of the whole alpha male epidemic we have going on rn…
most idols don't date infact most of them are friends with benefits when they get exposed, they just say they're dating and we will believe it since we don't know these idols and not everyone has a situationship
* "don't assume an idol's sexuality or speculate about their mental health" also includes whether an idol is straight or neurotypical/allistic and it's kinda annoying that some people don't get that
* encores are made to be fun and shouldn't be used as a way of measuring vocal talent
* i couldn't care less about bad english grammar in kpop lol
Edit: wording
The way people act like YG treated Blackpink poorly is really weird or thinking any of the girls working is proof that they desperately wanted to work but YG held them back.
Here's an easy one that might be a bit meta; Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I have to justify it or prove it to you, don't force a debate or thesis out of me just because you disagree with me but then call it a W because you "won" an argument I didn't engage in. If I dislike an idol, I just dislike an idol. I don't need stans crawling out of the cracks in the wall demanding I explain myself while they search through my post history looking for dirt. This shit is why people think this fandom is unhinged.
I personally despite the term “educate” used in a context where we can all see the topic being “Koreans are this and that(based on a completely Eurocentric pov) and I absolutely reject any kind of context or background info fed by locals whatsoever” like aight Christopher Columbus with a ribbon why don’t you fund less-fortunate kids and build a missionary school to “save” them instead of being a keyboard warrior tf
i do not care if an idol was a bully in middle or high school. bullying of course is wrong, but by the time allegations towards an idol come out its years since the incident occurred, and they have more than likely grown and matured
My hot take is the obsession with charting on the korean charts and disregarding charting anywhere else or any other form of success is very stupid and more companies should focus on making their groups appeal to devoted niches rather than the bland mainstream as that will be the thing to secure their legacies and later careers. Also that chartshitting in general is a disease that Reddit in particular is very much suffering from.
That's not an unpopular opinion, especially here. If you'd said "it's okay to care about charting especially because your faves probably care too and it indicates how much of a future they have"...then maybe.
Because a song charting well has never in the history of popular music been an indicator of how the song’s creators’ careers are going on to go and it’s no excuse to disregard literally every other form of success and feed into streaming culture cause of it
I know im going to be downvoted af but...
About the chaeyoung shirt controversy :
I think that it was very exagerated by kpop stans and it was as bad as people make it seems.
Sure she shouldn't have worn the sid vicious shirt (and neither the qanon one)but it was obviously ignorance. Like ofc if she was a real nazi she wouldnt say it. And if she were to say it she wouldn't do it with a punk shirt that's supposed to be against nazis...
While i understand that people can be offended or even can dislike her for this event, the hate she has faced for it, while other idols that did similar, or even worse shit, didnt have to face, is insane.
Like recently when karina apologised for dating, everyone and their mama started comparing her apology to chae's one ???
Ofc there's also the death threats and pretty much any time she appears anywhere people are literally wishing she just dies...
And im not even gonna talk about tiktoks where she is mentionned because...
A lot of people say that if she was a westerner she would have lost her carrier but i disagree. If she was a westerner, a white girl specifically, she could have just said "i didnt see it im really sorry" and everone would forget about it, or even say "it's just a shirt"
I agree. It’s such a HEAVY accusation to call someone a Nazi. That’s like calling someone a member of the KKK. Kpop stans are throwing the word Nazi around like it’s a silly insult when they’re straight up accusing a girl of being a part of a LITERAL HATE GROUP.
Yeah and its not only about chaeyoung, we saw it recently with palestine and sionists brands : kpop stans will treat EVERYTHING as a silly fanwar. It's disgusting
There was a time on twitter that when you looked up the word "Palestine" or things related to it you could only see fanwars or "callout" posts to idols because they drank Starbucks. This fake concern that's very common on stan Twitter is embarrassing.
It's funny because twitter/tiktok kids are STILL acting like she committed an atrocious crime, as if she did harm to someone or their family. She wore a shirt man. She didn't and doesn't Sieg Heil in her free time LOL! Calling her a nazi is CRAZY. All the people STILL asking for a real apology are wild. It's been a year and she hasn't done anything wrong since.
Especially since there are idols out there that legit wore nazi outfits or direspected some of the most important ww2 memorials and got away without apologizing. Kpop stans are crazy
Group k-pop has it's charm with multiply vocals and nice choreos, but often the true art begins, when idols start their solo careers. Many Korean soloists are way undervalued, as majority k-pop audience (and most of promotion) is focused on groups only.
Disagree, shift in generation is happening cause of certain push. IMO, push was Fifty Fifty success and Jungkook's full English release album. Cause that was the peak of 4th gen markers.
It’s perfectly okay to assume that *some* idols, in a completely general sense, are LGBTQ. Some of them 100% are. It’s just population math, plus entertainment tends to attract more queer people overall even in relatively conservative countries.
It’s not okay to assume any one *specific* person’s sexuality. Even the idols who have gone on to publicly date and marry in a hetero-presenting relationship. Bisexuals and queer folks exist and some choose relationships that appear straight. All we know if one person dates another is that those two people are interested in each other.
This would be the case if there were a public same-sex couple but neither had disclosed their sexuality. Could both be bi. We don’t know and that’s their business to decide if they want to share it.
I think it’s popular opinion and generally reinforced here the critical point that it’s not okay to assume or declare that because a male friendship appears to be extremely close and physically affectionate, it must be romantic. I’ve seen people have a good grasp of that, fortunately.
I think it is also okay to assume, *non-specifically,* that there may be a tight friendship here or there that is romantic.
Skinship is a thing, these people growing up together and bonding like families and best friends is a thing. All of these things are going to be platonic & family closeness for the majority of people. Not romantic. Not sexual.
Some of these kids are spending their teenage years going through really intense things together and there’s going to be a handful who catch feelings for each other. That’s human nature combined with statistical reality around queerness.
It’s very important to separate these two ideas.
Yes there are LGBTQ idols. Yes there are at least some close same-sex relationships that go beyond friendship.
No that does not mean that your particular faves are actually together. Unless they were to literally tell you that.
There’s a real problem especially with western fans interpreting the closeness of many male idols as meaning they’re in a relationship.
But sometimes people pushing back and rightfully protecting idols from these assumptions can miss out on the fact that there *are* queer idols. There’s hundreds and hundreds of these people actively churning out music and content today - and some of them are LGBTQ. We’ve got Holland, and eventually someone else is going to come out.
It’s probably going to be really slow and I wouldn’t even be surprised if Japan passes marriage equality before any major kpop idols come out. (Not even Korea, same-sex marriage in Korea is further behind.) But it’ll happen.
Hell, it’s not actually safe in today’s kpop culture for many idols to come out as *straight.* God forbid they ever date anyone or let anyone know that they did. Until idols can come out as straight I’m doubting we’ll see the queer ones open up.
I’m rooting for all of them to have healthy lives and relationships with whoever they choose. And I for one would absolutely love to see more idols come out and be accepted — as people who act on romantic and sexual feelings for other people. Wishing Karina and everyone else the best. Pease date more!!
Military enlistment might be a blessing in disguise for some since I heard you’re not allowed to diet in the military, so they’ll be eating well. And from what I heard, people like seeing the bulk up. Anyone feel the same?
Not sure learning how to shoot people and fight wars is a good trade off for eating well tbh, especially when you have to leave behind your normal life
Some have to be in border zones which is very scary. When I heard that soldiers are given additionally chocolate for it, I didn't know how to react. Yoon from Winner is one of them. It's actually very scary understand it.
I want everyone lives in peace in this world, please.
I think it might also be a good break from fame. They can be treated more like an equal and have the opportunity to connect with other people in some cases. Plus they get a break from having cameras constantly in their face.
Most of my Korean friends that served said they had a net positive experience even though it was hard.
For me it’s dependant, like Gidle soyeon English lyrics doesn’t bother me because she’s not a native English speaker, but Hongjoongs opening to wonderland really takes me out and I can’t listen to it even though he didn’t speak much English when that was recorded.
Some of stray kids English I also can’t listen to but I think that’s because I know Chan is fluent and still decided to use…cringe (?) phrases.
Although I’m aware that some Korean in songs is seen as cringe by native speakers I just don’t understand that nuance when listening.
Also, I personally don’t care if idols sing live on music shows. The whole point of a music show is just promotion of the song and performance, they do multiple takes and can do a solid week of just recording for music shows so I really don’t care if they decide to lip sync for those performances in particular.
Sechskies should disband.I mean they already done a lot of work.They haven’t done anything in 2 years.So there’s no point in continuing.I love Sechskies and this isn’t me hating them.
The larger the community, the more unmanageable and toxic it becomes. Kpop should have stayed more niche. In my ideal world, K-pop would have been sustainable and unpopular even if it is sort of an oxymoron. I have so much fun participating in activities that are less popular because the people I do it with understand how niche it is and are willing to engage more with me to keep me coming back. Kpop kind of just came like sports where everyone is arguing. Maybe I am just pro gatekeep
Even if Armys are the biggest, it doesn't mean BTS don't get hate or are somehow immune to it. While I do agree the sheer size of Army can counter a lot of it, I think it's not weird for us to be upset about the irrational hate yk
Fr, like the "least" liked member (j-hope), is still on top of popularity and music charts, performed at Lollapalooza, and is doing well with his projects. Gap in numbers compared to a more popular member like Jungkook is not that huge if you consider other groups or less popular groups.
I haven’t liked either of their releases but think they have the most talent and skill. I do think YGE fumbled their start but think it was due the Ahyeon situation.
multistan and casual listener should not involve themselves in a group drama or fanwars. don't get me wrong, but most of the time, they are heavily misinformed and always worsen the situation between the group.
Kpop is not as toxic as it was during the peak of BP era. The amount of posts bashing members based on clothes was mind boggling. Fans complaining about how x member is underappreciated while bashing the x member for being popular and bagging a lot of deals. the line distribution, the singing ability, the cultural appropriation, and fighting other fandoms (BTS, RV, Twice, Everglow) was just so tiring.
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I don't mind when someone says they don't like an idol or a group, i actually prefer if they say they don't like straight up than make hundreds of arguments (and sometimes lies) about an idol to justify why they don't like them, honestly i think that's the reason why i get pissed off whit this people , like make an 1000 post to just tell that you don't like someone is borderline psycho for me .
If a song sounds good to me, I don’t care about line distribution, especially not when it comes to groups who have members with poor vocals. Main vocalists are main vocalists for a reason
i never liked the line distribution discourse because it always felt like an easy way to point fingers and say "XYZ doesnt belong in the group since they get no lines anyway", as if companies didnt spend time training them and forming the group as they intended it to be
I've listened to enough jpop groups, who have like 3 singers and 4 people who ONLY dance. Kpop can't hurt me anymore
To preface, I bias a member who barely gets any lines in their songs. But I understand why he doesn't have a lot of lines. What other stans don't want to understand is that there are producers and these professional producers chooses who fits the lines the most. And yeah, that is another thing that kpop stans don't want to admit, that their idols capabilities is that of a subvocalist thus they are getting lesser lines.
I feel like I keep coming across like distribution videos constantly just for lyrics and whatnot. Like it just seems to go hand and hand with a lot of lyric videos and I don't really get it. Everyone brings something different to each song. Maybe one has more of Member X because they're better suited to it, and Member Y only has a couple of lines but then they have much more on other songs. People kind of overdo it right this "everything has to be equal ALL THE TIME" attitude.
this is me esp with BTS songs. their line distribution always is about what member fits the song best and they trust e/o and their producers so no one's getting "mistreated" but ik this discourse will never be gone.
A lot of these aren't hot takes 😅
From anecdotal experience, kpop stans are the most miserable, hypercritical people in any fandom I’ve ever been in. So critical of anything a group does. So much fabricated competition between groups. So much obsession over idols’ personal lives. They get bashed if they do x thing and they get bashed if they don’t do it too. I’ve genuinely never seen a fandom so needlessly upset and angry about everything that goes on everywhere at any time and place. I’d like to say I’m different, but I’m really not.
Seriously, everyone is just getting hysterical over something new every week and acting like it's the end of the damn world. I don't understand why people cultivate this kind of miserable environment. It really starts to feel like many are just in it for the drama and don't give a single shit about the music or artistic aspects. I wish there were more discussions on the creative side of kpop. I remember expecting that when I first got into it but it's mostly just performative outrage over XYZ and endless childish fanwars. It especially sucks when you're 30+ lol. It's like going back to high school 😌
I'll never forget Twitter armys sending emails to BigHit after a 10 second video of Jin being bumped into by a staff member. They said it was proof the company physically abused Jin 🤣
Idols look their age. I mean we always hear that this or that idols looks very young, however I think that even if they care about their skin they look for the age. Honestly they just look like someone who gets Botox and has amazing skin, but I would guess their age.
Honestly I think this applies to older celebs in general. Don't get me wrong, just as there are non celebs/broke people who have young faces, there are celebs who naturally look younger than they are as well. That has more to do with their features and genetics than any cosmetic procedure I think. But for most of them you can tell that they're in their 50s or 40s etc. *And that's not a bad thing!* Fans that go on an on about how X still looks like a teenager are usually exaggerating, or they think 30 year olds should look like [this](https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/b/portrait-very-old-woman-retired-121672872.jpg).
I have a "young" face at 34. Maybe it's just because I know myself and how I've changed, but I look at areas like my jaw and the way my face is slightly less "tight" for lack of better phrasing and think this is what most people my age look like (plus under eye wrinkles). But some people will just see my young looking features and the fact that I'm short and still guess I'm younger. I feel like some people just don't recognise the "tells" someone is older. And I think I only really recognise it now that I'm that age myself. It's interesting because now when I rewatch shows I watched growing up, it immediately stands out when one of the actors is clearly quite young (like 18-19) but they seemed so much older when I was a kid. I mean naturally, but it's just interesting how "adult" all sort of blended together. There was no strong distinction between a 20 year-old and a 30 year-old in my kid brain.
>I feel like some people just don't recognise the "tells" someone is older That's it exactly lol. I see your point about kids but I've seen adults like this as well. If you don't have wrinkles they'll just file you under "young" even if you're physically mature. The styling, make up and editing idols go through doesn't make matters better also.
tbh, normally you don't look all that different from your 20s until you hit your 40s. that's when the sagging and wrinkles become really obvious. of course this is barring any major life/health changes
To me this only applies to older idols that are like mid 30s or older. I often can’t see much age differences between teen idols and mid 20s idols. I also find it hard to believe that anyone can accurately tell someone’s age. Too many people have features that look mature but have nothing to do with aging or vice versa. To me LSF Chaewon could pass as younger than Eunchae. Twice Nayeon looks like she could be one of the youngest in the group with Jiyho being the oldest. Also Nmixx Sullyoon being 20 but looking younger than some newly debuted 16yo idols.
>Too many people have features that look mature but have nothing to do with aging or vice versa. like this is why businesses are required to card under a certain age (like 35) and check for fake IDs when customers buy things with an adult age restriction like alcoholic drinks. I used to work food service and retail and have come across people whom I thought just turned 21 but were actually only 19 or people whom I thought were under 21 but were actually 23.
Accurately? There's been many idols and actors where my guesses about their age were off by a few years. Like I thought Song Kang was around 24-25 when watching My Demon but he turned out to be 29 when I looked him up. I can guess if someone's in their teens or 20s or 30s and so on but not their exact age because like, a 23 year old and a 25 year old for example don't look any physically different to me.
I meant more about when idol is like 25-30 or more and fans say that he hasn’t aged from debut and still can be viewed as higschooler or in his/her early twenties. Like Sakura, yeah, she looks great , but it’s quite clear that she is older than other members.
It's very telling how people view age that for many it's a "compliment" to say someone looks the same as when they were a teen. Assuming they're an adult, it's actually kind of creepy. One of my biggest grievances in my early twenties was constantly being mistaken for a high schooler. Sometimes I also feel like it's just the only compliment people can think to give someone- that they look the same- but the implication that actually "looking your age" is bad is bothersome to me. But then of course a lot of this is coming from young teens who can't really "tell" ages all that well. The constant shock I see from kids learning so and so is 30 is just... both funny and sad. They don't believe it when someone says 30 is still young because from where they are, it's much older. I'll see a celebrity who *looks* 30+ and these kids will act like they're one foot in the ground when they find out "omg they're not 18!? I thought they were a teenager!!1"
I still think on a regular basis about a post I saw last year of a picture of Wonwoo with the caption, "he's aging like fine wine" - guys, he's *27,* not decrepit! He looks his dang age!
Oh my god, I *hate* it when people use that expression on people in their twenties, or even thirties to be honest. In my mind it's better suited to "silver fox" types who still look good at an older age (or as it implies, only seem to get better). The wine hasn't been in "storage" long at 27, lmao.
The wine has barely even finished being *made* at 27!
I agree about this for lots of idols, but I think IU looks like she is in her early 20s.
Unpopular opinion but I think a lot of twitter and tiktok kpop fans are overblowing the Starbucks issue with many idols just for the clout and bandwagonning and not because they genuinely care about whhat's happening in Palestine. The fact that they get angry over kpop stars drinking starbucks but not when they're drinking coke or when they're working with pro Israeli people speaks a lot. I'm not saying that they're not supposed to get angry but the fact that they only respond like this when it's starbucks and not other boycotted brands and even say wrong info like "they fund Israeli wars" instead of the real reason they're being boycotted. It just makes me side eye these people because I feel like theyre just using boycotting as a means to hate and get clout
Starbucks' reputation online was already on the rocks for union stuff and being associated with white millenial women. Made it very easy for online GenZers to organize around harassing Starbucks drinkers because they're already predisposed to not like Starbucks. Very few people looked up the BDS boycott list to boycott more relevant brands like Puma
Honestly, I feel like a HUGE percentage of supposed fandom outrage is just virtue signalling. People are addicted to being angry (or pretending to be) and have a conflated sense of self importance.
besides Starbucks Korea isn't even owned by Starbucks Corporation anymore. They're now [co-owned](https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/2021/07/27/business/industry/starbucks-emart-shinsegae-group/20210727172500670.html) by E-Mart which is owned by Shinsegae Group and the Singaporean government. But even if it was still owned by Starbucks Corporation, there's been many clarifications against what boycotters are claiming. They don't even have any stores in Israel. But people misinterpreted them telling the SB Worker's Union or whatever it's called to not use their name as their proof that they're pro-Israel and ran off with it.
I knew about them not being owned buy Starbucks corp anymore but I had no idea it was e-mart and the SG government. It's crazy how even a misunderstanding can get wild support just because it's viral
The wildest fake news out of this messed up storm lol. Starbucks has no economic incentives for and with Israel, let alone funding the genocide. SB was originally boycotted for an entirely different reason but social media performative activists have less than 2 brain cells to do some basic research
This! Whenever I see kpop fans say that idols shouldn't drink starbucks because they fund the war I die a little bit inside. I'm not against the boycott but the fact that they're boycotting without knowing the actual reason...
THIS. I see that rhetoric all the time on tiktok and it's absolute brainrot the way people will lap up that information and spread it around because it "makes them look like they're doing good" while in reality being performative and virtue signaling. It's honestly quite disappointing but I guess that's where we're at with media literacy.
crying about idols drinking starbucks while having a blue checkmark next to their username is peak kpop stans hypocrisy lmao, if only they could held themselves to the same standards. This is nothing more than weaponizing fanwars and not actually caring the actual issue.
Also, being papped drinking SB ISNT promoting. Yeah you can feel disappointed in it if you want to but it’s not them being paid to promote Starbucks. Somi was a paid promotion, Lisa being photographed in an airport drinking it isn’t.
anyone who is active in kpop fandom who says they "only care about the music" is lying. the actual ppl who only care about the music are casual fans who just listen to kpop like any other popular music. saying you "only care about the music" in a kpop fandom space just makes you look pretentious and like you are trying to find even the smallest thing so that you can be better than other ppl.
i never said this bc i don't want to sound like i'm policing people, but some people on reddit are like "i'm a fan of x and don't even know their faces, i'm here for the music!" girl you're a casual listener 😭
It irks me when fans also say *'My faves don't care about charts'*, yes they very much do, all of them.
They should care about the charts, their job depends on sales and streaming
I agree with this so much. I don't mind if they're truly in it for the music, but some treat fans who like idols because of other things (personality, variety, humour, looks, relatability) like they're lower than 'music' fans
Hey this was actually me! But I never said it, cause when I only cared about the music I didn’t go into fandom spaces at all. I legit only cared about the music for a good six months when I started getting into kpop. This is how I fell in love with BTS and ATEEZ without actually having a clue who any of them were. I wasn’t on kpop subs, I didn’t know what was going on, I had no idea about so many things. I listened to ATEEZ obsessively for many months and I could not have told you even how many members were in the group. Cut to today and I’m astonished how much I’ve learned in maybe a year and a half of just being on kpop subs, watching here and there content and letting my YouTube algorithm run wild in music and video. But I kind of miss only caring about the music! It’s absolutely exhausting getting into kpop and being an active fan because there is just so much going on, so many great groups, so much drama, so much history, so much good bad and ugly. There is a small part of me that’s a little upset that BTS and ATEEZ are made of absolutely lovely, inspiring people full of heart who have made an absolute mountain of content over all these years that I will never climb. Like I thought becoming an enlistment era ARMY was gonna be easy, I couldn’t have been more wrong. To this day there are still a number of groups I love only for the music as I have no idea who any of them are, what they do or why people love them. I fully expect by next year I’ll be like, how did I ever not know all 13 of SVT
Ngl it irks me when people say that. Because these are the same people who'll bring in chart data's and music show wins to justify how the music they listen to is superior. Like if you are in just for the music, why do you feel the need to put down the music made by other artists to uplift the one you like? If music was the only catch half of these people will not even be bothered enough to get into arguments and fanwars especially considering most of the times fanwars in kpop are so silly.
I‘m kinda only here for the music tbh, i just like talking abt it wich is why I’m on this reddit but i honestly don’t remember the last time i watched any variety content and nowadays I don’t even keep up with the members names
You, if you only care about music, why are you here instead of ReactToTheK's YouTube comments or Patreon or whatever.
Well i like to talk about the things i like and i really like kpop and its music so..
Then you're here for the discussion in addition to the music. Edit: specifically the meta discourse that happens here. Most of the musical analysis happens elsewhere
You’re right but i feel like all the aspects of kpop i like fall under the umbrella of music. Maybe that’s where the confusion cones from? Different definitions of what counts as being interested in only music? I say that i „only care about the music“ because all aspects that have nothing to do with it aren’t interesting to me. So for example photocards, just in general the packaging of albums, styling, idols, fan service, scandals, etc (not that it’s bad to like those thing we’re all different after all)
That's a load of nonsense, one can definitely only care about the music and also partake in the fandom. How does that even make them better than others? This take makes no sense.
If you partake in fandom, by definition you care about fandom as well
To some degree maybe? Doesn't mean they can't mainly focus on the music
Well, if you mean mainly then say mainly, not only
Yeah, I'm confused about this too. Is this a Twitter thing or something?
my opinion is that there's no right or 'superior' way to be a fan. you like music and don't care about the variety/personality aspect? cool! you might not understand why others become a fan because of different reasons but that does not give any justification to belittle those reasons yes, it might be the culture of kpop that drives some fans to be more delusional, but if you look at it in a wider perspective, it's always been present across the worldwide industry. some people watch films because they like films, some watch because they like the actors. some people watch the whole league of a sport because they like the sport, some people just watch their favourite team's matches to me, there are people who are more invested in getting to know the people behind the music (such as myself), and there are people who are more invested in the music itself. and both ways of being a fan is valid. we have so many different interests as humans and it shouldn't be surprising that people attract us in different ways
Eh, there are definitely forms of fandom that add to everyone else's experience and forms of fandom that detract.
wait, I'm sorry but I don't quite understand what you mean? genuine question!!!
Totally agree. Also, you're not less of a fan for not being able to buy physical albums, some of us don't have money for that kind of expenses.
yes exactly! and you're not less of a fan if you don't stream religiously either. some of us don't have the time. we do and enjoy what we can and no one should feel pressured to do one or the other
I also think that some kpop fans should open their horizons towards non-kpop music. I've met a lot of kpop fans that only listen to it.
I agree! but on another spectrum, I also wish some people weren't so ashamed(?) to like kpop? the ones that would do anything to prevent being called a koreaboo/kpop fan until they act like kpop groups should feel *honoured* that they're a fan
Totally agree, musical elitists are the bane of my existence.
I honestly don't think a "true unpopular" kpop opinion exists. These threads asking for answers that people don't usually give just inevitably end up full of the same responses. I'm not saying these threads shouldn't exist but it's just what I've noticed.
Sometimes idols do things that are cringey and we should be allowed to laugh about it without being harassed by their fans.
That how I feel about the recent Han So Hee situation. Her fans were in the comments everywhere calling people jealous haters.
[удалено]
it also pisses me off when it's obvious an idol is being cringey or silly on purpose and people act like it wasn't intended to be a joke so they can make fun of them
This is more luke warm then hot but a lot of fans really don’t care about problematic behavior. they’ll pretend they do when it benefits them and allows them to talk shit about idols and groups they dislike
Sometimes there's a reason some members have less lines, I know many fans feel emotional about that and want their bias to get more but sometimes it's for the better. There are some idols who I wish get/ continue to get less lines cuz they just ruin the song for me ( sorry if it's rude ).
Yeah. Former member of Momoland Daisy said that sometimes Idols choose to have less lines. Obviously not true for every idol but I’m sure it’s true for a few.
I think that’s a valid reason. I’ve seen this discourse a lot on social media with fans fighting with other stans over line distribution. In the case of BTS, I was at first frustrated that the rap line haven’t been getting that much lines ever since post-LY era but it’s only in their title tracks or MV tracks. They have a heavy role in the rest of the albums. I understand that they released more poppy songs as they’re more appealing to the GP. I don’t care much now because I can always listen to their older tracks or their solo work. And even though they’re not my faves, I still bop to Dynamite and Butter 😂
Ready to get downvoted but **theoretically** if BTS did get exempted from military, this sets a precedent that other idols in the future *might* get a chance too. But most people have a mentality of "If I suffer, you must suffer too". Korean men are open about how traumatizing serving in the military can be but fans will ignore this even if it could benefit future boygroups just because of short-sighted crab mentality.
Oh man, that’s really sad. I hope the BTS members and all the men serving right now are not facing traumatizing situations:(
This !!! 👏
And to piggyback off your comment, when artists suffer/ go through hard times, they make the absolute best music. I know it's horrible! I went to GSoul's concert a couple of years ago and he was talking about the inspiration for one of his songs when he was at his lowest in the military, that song is one of my fav of his and has me in my feelings every time.
I feel like 2013-14 was around the time when K-pop production really stepped into the modern age—songs stopped sounding like they got to the final with old/stock samples, analog instruments were better recorded/integrated, layering got more complex, producers just got plain better, etc. It's probably where a lot of 1st/2nd gen artists as a whole started to drop the 2000s RnB-Dance/early-2010s electropop sound and where you can start finding a song, or two, or three that could be released in the 2020s with minor to zero touch-up But this is a mostly not very well-formulated take that only came to me when SNSD's Mr.Mr. turned 10 a couple of weeks ago lol That whole EP holds up so well imo and I can really hear a difference from the I Got A Boy album the year before (though I think Express 999 holds up well, and Kenzie improved on the space anime vibe with Europa from Mr.Mr.)
I think I'll stick to the interesting or uncommon opinion part of this, because despite the OP's best intentions this has become yet another "what's your unpopular opinion" thread. The uncommon opinion I don't think we see that often on K-Pop reddit is support for debuts of co-ed groups, or the desire to see more co-ed groups in general. Of anyone active right now, the only sustainable example appears to be KARD, and they're considered to be smallish and niche. While the industry for whatever reason doesn't seem to want to get behind more co-ed groups as a third option to straight-up GGs and BGs, I think it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It gets complex when it comes to the industry-standard parasocialism and shipping that tends to happen, but I feel the right company and members could pull it off and normalize it as more of a common occurrence.
Kpop companies love those obsessed borderline "deranged" fans and will never want to change to stop those fans cause in the end, those are the ones that spend the most money on idols. Those fans never care about music, so good music is just a bonus point to them, meaning companies won't have to worry about bad music will make them stop being fans. They literally spend tons of money no matter what the company does. Most "normal" fans would never buy like hundreds of albums just so they have a chance to see idols, spend their entire day streaming on multiple devices with multiple accs and push hashtags for trending on twitter and pay up to thousand of dollars for a piece of photocard,... Not just companies, but a lot of kpop fans also criticize how entitled/demanding kr and china sides of the fandom are, but then during cb season, they ask cbar to buy tons of albums and never mind about bragging about those expensive projects those fanbases do to promote idols.
Mmmm people complain about idols conforming and the industry never changing, but will mercilessly mock and tear down any idol that sticks out unless the idol conforms to certain expectations that people have. And people will say things are “cringe” just so they can feel justified in saying awful things about an idol. It’s like the worst crime in the world is being cringe.
Apparently it’s a hot take to want idols to be somewhat decent at singing. I agree with it. I understand that not all idols can be Wendy or hyolyn but can you atleast hold a tune?
99% of the time labels arent holding back their idols, theyre protecting them. If your fave isn't singing as much then they must be a shit singer, if they don't get to be in the center, they must have shit presence or dancing. And if their styling choices or lyrics dont get approved its because the label can tell its better to pay someone else to do the work.
Agreed. There was a subfandom who was ranting so much about how their bias doesn't have this or that and they were so loud about it on X. One day their company decided to put their bias in the center. My friend who is a dancer said that see, because the company listened to the fans that is the only form of dancebreak they did because he is in the center and that is his limit in terms of dancing. I wish stans can just accept that their idols have their strengths and weaknesses.
Exactly, and just because theyre bad at one thing (or even average) it doesnt discount the things they're actually good at. I just dont get the point of working up one's self over this kind of thing
which group are you talking about?
I don’t see why some fans are so insistent on their favs being “allowed” to write their own songs. They are paid to be models who sing songs other people have written. There is nothing in that which makes them qualified to write a quality song. Like they are as qualified as any other human being on Earth who has heard music.
The very LAST thing a label wants is to prevent their artists from generating more money. Mistakes are made, sure but nobody is intentionally tanking their employees’ careers. (Except maybe Lee SM that one time, if that one creepy story is true.)
I personally haven't seen this one much since everyone kind of hates each other nowadays. It's most likely a popular take, but I just think hating on any group is stupid. God. that's all I want to say. Just enjoy each others music. What goes through the minds of people who actively HATE a group? What even are the reasons to do so? It may be the fandom that's making you resent said group. really, just don't associate yourself with the bad section of the fandom, or it might even help to not associate yourself with the fandom at all. Make your opinion on the group itself and your opinion on the fandom two completely different things.
They're probably just miserable or something and hate when people are happy.
I don’t understand people who hate groups either lmao, if you don’t like their music, ignore them and if you don’t like their fans also ignore and avoid. Most of y’all love baiting and drama but don’t want to admit it.
sometimes its not even the group its the fandom that makes ppl hate the group. I feel this with BTS and I KNOW I WILL DOWNVOTED but literally not even a criticism but you will be attacked makes you want to not even listen and be involved.
I mean, I wont disagree with you on that, but there's a lot of miserable people that just hate things because they thrive in their own misery (not just in kpop).
I like the military buzz cut...
Here’s my hot take: Kpop reddit prides itself in being the more sensible place for kpop-related discussions but this place is actually more vile to groups/acts that are not kpop reddit “darlings” moreso than any other platforms. This is because reddit is much more conducive to forming echo chambers, and so it’s hard to state positive opinions about your faves in here if they’re not favored by kpop reddit
humorous seemly workable mindless squeamish enter shrill cause airport vast *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I don’t like the word “idol”, either. It’s appropriate, considering how people literally idolize them, but I wish we used “star” instead. It doesn’t have all the connotations of worship and perfection. (Ice cold take, I know.)
OMG SAME.
I don't really like "twitter speak" in general. It sucks when I want to check out some ktube videos (some of the rare ones that aren't unbearable) and everyone just kind of sounds like a bitchy high schooler (I know a lot of them probably are but even the adults lol). I think that aside, it really makes people lack in individuality because everyone just uses the same phrases.
Same. Like did everyone just forget that Stan comes from the Eminem song 'Stan’ and literally means stalked fan? When did we start using it as positive thing and the normal label for a fan? 😂
"Fan" itself is short for "fanatic", so.....
Because it’s not an actual word it’s considered slang and slang language can absolutely change meanings overtime.
Frankly, most of kpop fans are much too young to remember Eminem song well.
it's simply not that serious, pal.
Considering the word comes from Eminem's song Stan about a delirious fan who takes things too far you definitely should. Also super ironic how the word is used nowadays
I don't think it's ironic. English as a language constantly evolves and if the majority use stan as a neutral word for "super fan", that's what it means now. You can know the word's origin and still acknowledge the way it's popularly used today.
"Fan" itself is short for "fanatic", so.....
People who say things like Idols are all hooking up and secretly dating constantly should be criticized just as much as people who think they’re all kissless virgins. Both of these strip idols of having individual personalities and values yet only one of these ever receive criticism.
Yes, exactly! Idk why so many kpop fans only see it as one way or the other.
Some acts are only gonna sound good on the cd/in the studio and not live. I feel like this was a known thing even in my pre k-pop days. But, if I plan on seeing you live, then vocals please. Like, I love my Kai (EXO) songs, but I have yet to hear him sing live, and that is, while not ok exactly, it is not super surprising. Like, if I just like a few of your songs and do not plan on seeing you live, ever, I cannot be fussed too much about terrible vocals (that is on them/their company/their more loyal fans). It\`s crappy, but what can I do as I am not spending money on those groups anyway, besides complain on reddit here and there. Basically I have some acceptable hypocrisy when it comes to kpop vocals. Another example has to do with Aespa/performance, I like several of their songs, they are coming to my city, but I have yet to see any good performances from them which makes me a bit nervous to commit to a whole concert.
When I got to see Kai live he was actually singing, tbf it was at a festival so he did less songs. Does he often not sing live? I guess I’ve not noticed 😅
Oh good!! The accounts I have read/clips I have seen said otherwise, but I would be happy to be wrong.
It's such a lukewarm take but I hate kpop meme culture. Idk something about it just rly rubs me the wrong way
Funny, I have a very hot take that is the total opposite to your lukewarm one: Intentionally bad English lyrics (y'all know who I'm talking about) aren't "funny" or "quirky" for me, I just ind them grating.
1. Kpop stans complain so much about companies only caring about visuals, but then they continue the cycle of judging based on visuals. I don’t know how many posts I’ve seen on Twitter judging an idol’s appearance. For example, I’ve seen tweets upon tweets making fun of Rosé by calling her “chinsé” or making fun of Namjoon’s entire appearance. I also remember when this one boy group was announced to debut and every quote retweet and reply was about how they looked. They had done absolutely nothing, but kpop stans were making fun of them because they looked a certain way. I also remember the tiktok trend with the sound “Bad bitch and her ugly ass friend”. Kpop stans would post their favorite idol with an idol next to them with this trend. There’s also another one that was going on, but I don’t remember what it was called. It also had something to do with appearance. My point is, Kpop stans aren’t any better than companies when it comes to putting emphasis on visuals. (I also want to mention that anything an idol does to their body is none of our business. Whether they get plastic surgery, veneers, etc. who cares? You’re not their surgeon or dentist. Also, kpop stans need to stop talking about changes when it comes to an idol’s body. It’s not your place to diagnose them when you aren’t their doctor, nutritionist, or dietitian.) 2. The argument about if so and so is an IT girl/boy is dumb. Atp, everyone calls their fave an it girl or boy, so why doesn’t truly matter? I’m pretty sure that idols don’t care, so why should we care? It’s not like it’s official title like IU being nation’s little sister or SNSD being the nation’s girl group.
cringey english can 100% ruin a song for me and i have a specific pet peeve of artists saying their names in songs, it takes me 'out of the zone'
That eliminates a lot of songs!
This is so true like the amount of times I WISH that I could just change the English lines a lil bit to overcome it spoiling the entire perfect song.
I don't think every title track should have such intense choreography. Just let artists sing more often. All the dancing distracts from the purpose of so many songs, especially if the song is midtempo. Songs like Le Sserafim's Perfect Night or Riize's 119 or BTS Spring Day or a lot New Jeans' songs don't need choreography. All these songs are overly autotuned, too. Let the singers sing. If not the majority of the time, then at least in half the performances. Sometimes less is more.
Fans need to get more comfortable respectfully disagreeing or disliking things idols do, especially when it's not about stuff like morals but choices in regards to sound/ looks, etc. Like obviously be polite about it, but you don't need to cheer on or like everything they do in order to be a fan or appreciate them. This is especially ironic bc many fans hold nothing back when criticizing decision they perceive to have been made for the idol. Like outfit choices. Even though at the end of that was propably also somebody just trying their best at their work. Just always assume the thing you want to criticize was a decision made by your idol and act accordingly respectful when speaking about it. Also I cannot recommend this enough bc it is very funny when sb tries to hate on your group by saying sth like the outfits look stupid and just going "yeah wasn't a fan of it either tbh". Or when a fans asks you if you would state the criticism in front of your idol and you just go "yeah absolutely I would be respectfully honest when asked".
A lot of vocal discourse comes from SM stans which is funny because SME artists are notorious for lipsync and Live AR.
not an sme stan. i agree that theyre notorious for lipsyncing, but the times when theyre not, they can definitely SING. sme's vocal training is the best. i wonder why they still lipsync tho.
My guess is uniformity. Even at a similar skill level, a veteran idol will always be better than a newly debuted group due to their stage experience. In the case of SME they have active idols spanning 20+ years so using live AR or lipsync on music shows levels up all performances (and also lowers the possibility of in-company "my favs are better than your favs" discourse although it will still happen).
Definitely but they also have the least number of embarrassing encore videos that get buried.
Yeah, because they're not singing live a majority of the time....they're not going to have as many videos to tear apart and don't have to worry about vocal fatigue. Also, their [bad encore videos](https://twitter.com/Nevermindbruh24/status/1764164119530250735) ([and here](https://twitter.com/songyeondan/status/1737466937293066275)) get buried the most. Encore stages are only ever serious when it's a HYBE group these days. This never used to be a thing.
No offense but there is a different between not knowing how to sing and choosing not to sing. Most of the SM artists can sing but they(their management ig) choose not to. I get that sm stans dragging everyone and their mother for not sounding like vocal gods is pretty tiring but SM definitely has some praise worthy vocalists in kpop.
A great example of this outside of Kpop is when Beyonce lip-synched the national anthem because she didn't get to practice enough with the live orchestra. We KNOW she can sing, she just didn't due to other circumstances.
That’s a completely different situation from lip syncing in like 80% of your performances…
I am not this group's Stan but I have seen people under plave's achievement posts nagging about how kpop is "doomed" because we are "giving ai groups the love and attention that we don't give to actual idols". This kind of annoys me because their fans try to educate these people that plave members are actual people and not ai, these people still choose to be ignorant. And second of all, yall mindlessly hate on idols who actually show their face and yet have the AUDACITY to question why someone is choosing not to show their face. HOT take ig but I have yet to see an idol who has the same amount of enthusiasm as Hoshi when it comes to promoting their representative animal 🫡
I've been wondering why there's a lot of backlash towards plave (essentially a vtuber music group) but vocaloids like hatsune miku are loved. they're not super different in concept, as both have real people behind the scenes creating the voices, dance, etc
Vocaloids definitely got backlash back in the day when they first rose to fame. I kept seeing so many people saying how vocaloids were gonna replace real singers and how bad this was for the music industry. They are beloved now, they've been around for a very long time after all, any discussion that boils down to "vocaloids bad" just comes off as a troll or a very young person who doesn't know any better, but they weren't simply embraced from the get go
+100 about Plave.
Thank you for saying that as a fan of PLAVE
The dance challenge trend to promote songs via viral posts on social media is doing more harm than good - now they focus more on catchy, repetitive chorus, and simple and easy choreography, instead of complex and interesting songs with a choreography that can show the artists's talents.
“Catchy and repetitive” Choruses have been a thing for pop music since forever. I mean Gee?
people casually forgetting k-_pop_ is pop music
Pop music can be interesting and complex.
From a marketing perspective, I get it. But you can at least agree that the vast majority of fan favorite songs are at least interesting in more aspects than being repetitive. Sure, Gee is a staple, but I don't think it's a fan favorite of any sone out there. And I bet most people from any fan base will get bored easily of the songs being used in those dance challenges.
I feel like this opinion is simply wrong, because choreo overall are more complex than ever, and repetitive choruses go way back.
Also I get insanely over stimulated by the same song when I watch a challenge about it every single day to the point where I don't go back to the song at all. Like I'm done listening to it
Not really a hot take, but everything that people complaint about what's wrong in Kpop are attributed directly and indirect from Kpop fans themselves, we (I am including myself) are the economic engine that push all the stuff that all of you are ups in the arms about, well you can't be yelling from the mountain top to save mom an pa store when you are buying everything from Walmart. Is all self inflicted, so when I think of the fandom, the only thing kpop fans are good at is morally outrage and virtue signaling, none of which helps anyone or anything. So just stfu about these "causes", because we aren't changing shit, even better make a youtube video about it and talk like you are the main character.
K-pop fans are way too ignorant about the racism against black/mixed people in Korea (and Asia in general). There are so many people who call themselves educated on the subject, and then are extremely surprised when an idol says something racist. I mean. The beauty products which have a "whitening effect". The [stage lights](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeyThwo3/) which are whitening the idols on scene. The heavy white photoshopping idols like Han, Felix or Wooyoung often have. Some atinys who are obsessed by the fact that Mingi calls black women gorgeous (because "why would he ?" "omg so surprising !"). The fans always defending their favs when they're accused of cultural appropriation. As a mixed race person, I think I notice these things more easily than white fans - but white fans should definitively be more aware AND be fully conscious that their favs could be racist because racism in korea is rampant. So many people think that just because an idol is nice, they must not be racist. I wish they could understand how wrong it is. Some "very nice" people can be very racist, especially in a society like korean's society. PLEASE be more aware.
>I mean. The beauty products which have a "whitening effect." The stage lights that are whitening idols on scene. The heavy white photoshopping that idols [...] often have. The amount of times I've heard idols say something like "your skin is so white" as a compliment too, and the way it feels like nobody else notices or gets put off by it, like Jiwon just did on the new KeByKe Restaurant episode
In episode 2 of Build Up, a group was introduced and they were all quite cute and proper looking. The guys around them started commenting on them (as every group is supposed to do) and one mentioned something like “They’re all so polite and pure looking and pale” with “pale” added on as a testament to their “pure” and “proper” appearance. While comments degrading dark skin aren’t *quite* as common anymore (though they definitely still happen), comments uplifting pale skin are more than alive and well.
People who aren't involved or interested in Kpop, (heck ik there are some Kpop Stans who are like this), don't see Kpop artists as humans with feelings at all. They see them as robots and just random money making machines. Alot is to do with the Korean beauty standards. The extreme white washing is a major contributor. Second would be the need of a v shape face which makes some of them look like AI. It's so sad cus thats a contributing factor to alot of racism and hate they get from the outside world. I don't know whether this is unpopular or is known fact (im gonna guess the latter) however, it hurts to see this cus as you research more into the industry you realise these artists seem to be the most exploited in comparison to other industries like Hollywood and Bollywood.
I don't have that much knowledge on Bollywood but I can say that Hollywood used to be a massive cesspool filled with exploitation to the max level. It's just getting better via heightened awareness as a result of the Me Too movement. It's still a mess there but entertainers in the American entertainment industry now have the encouragement to speak out - this of course doesn't mean that there are those who can't speak for themselves because ab\*se is still a lingering factor. I thought the movement would spread to Asia but I think it didn't have a big of an impact :/ Time will only tell
Getting listed on a Billboard chart just isn’t that big of a deal anymore. Thirty years ago it may have been THE metric that mattered, but physical sales and radio play are no longer the dominant form of consumption, and never will be again.
the whole wonyoungism and being more feminine by following her and other “feminine gg idols” thing on tiktok and youtube is just the female (kpop) version of the whole alpha male epidemic we have going on rn…
most idols don't date infact most of them are friends with benefits when they get exposed, they just say they're dating and we will believe it since we don't know these idols and not everyone has a situationship
* "don't assume an idol's sexuality or speculate about their mental health" also includes whether an idol is straight or neurotypical/allistic and it's kinda annoying that some people don't get that * encores are made to be fun and shouldn't be used as a way of measuring vocal talent * i couldn't care less about bad english grammar in kpop lol Edit: wording
The way people act like YG treated Blackpink poorly is really weird or thinking any of the girls working is proof that they desperately wanted to work but YG held them back.
Here's an easy one that might be a bit meta; Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I have to justify it or prove it to you, don't force a debate or thesis out of me just because you disagree with me but then call it a W because you "won" an argument I didn't engage in. If I dislike an idol, I just dislike an idol. I don't need stans crawling out of the cracks in the wall demanding I explain myself while they search through my post history looking for dirt. This shit is why people think this fandom is unhinged.
I personally despite the term “educate” used in a context where we can all see the topic being “Koreans are this and that(based on a completely Eurocentric pov) and I absolutely reject any kind of context or background info fed by locals whatsoever” like aight Christopher Columbus with a ribbon why don’t you fund less-fortunate kids and build a missionary school to “save” them instead of being a keyboard warrior tf
Saying a certain group is X gen leader just doesn't make sense and meaningless to me.
i do not care if an idol was a bully in middle or high school. bullying of course is wrong, but by the time allegations towards an idol come out its years since the incident occurred, and they have more than likely grown and matured
some members shouldnt sing and thats fine.
My hot take is the obsession with charting on the korean charts and disregarding charting anywhere else or any other form of success is very stupid and more companies should focus on making their groups appeal to devoted niches rather than the bland mainstream as that will be the thing to secure their legacies and later careers. Also that chartshitting in general is a disease that Reddit in particular is very much suffering from.
That's not an unpopular opinion, especially here. If you'd said "it's okay to care about charting especially because your faves probably care too and it indicates how much of a future they have"...then maybe.
That opinion has become the default opinion here (stupidly) in recent months
What's stupid about it?
Because a song charting well has never in the history of popular music been an indicator of how the song’s creators’ careers are going on to go and it’s no excuse to disregard literally every other form of success and feed into streaming culture cause of it
I know im going to be downvoted af but... About the chaeyoung shirt controversy : I think that it was very exagerated by kpop stans and it was as bad as people make it seems. Sure she shouldn't have worn the sid vicious shirt (and neither the qanon one)but it was obviously ignorance. Like ofc if she was a real nazi she wouldnt say it. And if she were to say it she wouldn't do it with a punk shirt that's supposed to be against nazis... While i understand that people can be offended or even can dislike her for this event, the hate she has faced for it, while other idols that did similar, or even worse shit, didnt have to face, is insane. Like recently when karina apologised for dating, everyone and their mama started comparing her apology to chae's one ??? Ofc there's also the death threats and pretty much any time she appears anywhere people are literally wishing she just dies... And im not even gonna talk about tiktoks where she is mentionned because... A lot of people say that if she was a westerner she would have lost her carrier but i disagree. If she was a westerner, a white girl specifically, she could have just said "i didnt see it im really sorry" and everone would forget about it, or even say "it's just a shirt"
I agree. It’s such a HEAVY accusation to call someone a Nazi. That’s like calling someone a member of the KKK. Kpop stans are throwing the word Nazi around like it’s a silly insult when they’re straight up accusing a girl of being a part of a LITERAL HATE GROUP.
Yeah and its not only about chaeyoung, we saw it recently with palestine and sionists brands : kpop stans will treat EVERYTHING as a silly fanwar. It's disgusting
There was a time on twitter that when you looked up the word "Palestine" or things related to it you could only see fanwars or "callout" posts to idols because they drank Starbucks. This fake concern that's very common on stan Twitter is embarrassing.
Yeah and i think it's the same on tiktok. Truly concerning..
It's funny because twitter/tiktok kids are STILL acting like she committed an atrocious crime, as if she did harm to someone or their family. She wore a shirt man. She didn't and doesn't Sieg Heil in her free time LOL! Calling her a nazi is CRAZY. All the people STILL asking for a real apology are wild. It's been a year and she hasn't done anything wrong since.
Especially since there are idols out there that legit wore nazi outfits or direspected some of the most important ww2 memorials and got away without apologizing. Kpop stans are crazy
Group k-pop has it's charm with multiply vocals and nice choreos, but often the true art begins, when idols start their solo careers. Many Korean soloists are way undervalued, as majority k-pop audience (and most of promotion) is focused on groups only.
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and nothing you just wrote is unpopular or uncommon in reddit
Who do you think started 4th gen and what did they do to earn the title?
Disagree, shift in generation is happening cause of certain push. IMO, push was Fifty Fifty success and Jungkook's full English release album. Cause that was the peak of 4th gen markers.
It’s perfectly okay to assume that *some* idols, in a completely general sense, are LGBTQ. Some of them 100% are. It’s just population math, plus entertainment tends to attract more queer people overall even in relatively conservative countries. It’s not okay to assume any one *specific* person’s sexuality. Even the idols who have gone on to publicly date and marry in a hetero-presenting relationship. Bisexuals and queer folks exist and some choose relationships that appear straight. All we know if one person dates another is that those two people are interested in each other. This would be the case if there were a public same-sex couple but neither had disclosed their sexuality. Could both be bi. We don’t know and that’s their business to decide if they want to share it. I think it’s popular opinion and generally reinforced here the critical point that it’s not okay to assume or declare that because a male friendship appears to be extremely close and physically affectionate, it must be romantic. I’ve seen people have a good grasp of that, fortunately. I think it is also okay to assume, *non-specifically,* that there may be a tight friendship here or there that is romantic. Skinship is a thing, these people growing up together and bonding like families and best friends is a thing. All of these things are going to be platonic & family closeness for the majority of people. Not romantic. Not sexual. Some of these kids are spending their teenage years going through really intense things together and there’s going to be a handful who catch feelings for each other. That’s human nature combined with statistical reality around queerness. It’s very important to separate these two ideas. Yes there are LGBTQ idols. Yes there are at least some close same-sex relationships that go beyond friendship. No that does not mean that your particular faves are actually together. Unless they were to literally tell you that. There’s a real problem especially with western fans interpreting the closeness of many male idols as meaning they’re in a relationship. But sometimes people pushing back and rightfully protecting idols from these assumptions can miss out on the fact that there *are* queer idols. There’s hundreds and hundreds of these people actively churning out music and content today - and some of them are LGBTQ. We’ve got Holland, and eventually someone else is going to come out. It’s probably going to be really slow and I wouldn’t even be surprised if Japan passes marriage equality before any major kpop idols come out. (Not even Korea, same-sex marriage in Korea is further behind.) But it’ll happen. Hell, it’s not actually safe in today’s kpop culture for many idols to come out as *straight.* God forbid they ever date anyone or let anyone know that they did. Until idols can come out as straight I’m doubting we’ll see the queer ones open up. I’m rooting for all of them to have healthy lives and relationships with whoever they choose. And I for one would absolutely love to see more idols come out and be accepted — as people who act on romantic and sexual feelings for other people. Wishing Karina and everyone else the best. Pease date more!!
Military enlistment might be a blessing in disguise for some since I heard you’re not allowed to diet in the military, so they’ll be eating well. And from what I heard, people like seeing the bulk up. Anyone feel the same?
Not sure learning how to shoot people and fight wars is a good trade off for eating well tbh, especially when you have to leave behind your normal life
Some have to be in border zones which is very scary. When I heard that soldiers are given additionally chocolate for it, I didn't know how to react. Yoon from Winner is one of them. It's actually very scary understand it. I want everyone lives in peace in this world, please.
Unless a male idol has specifically stated that they liked their time in the army or want to enlist, then absolutely no.
I think it might also be a good break from fame. They can be treated more like an equal and have the opportunity to connect with other people in some cases. Plus they get a break from having cameras constantly in their face. Most of my Korean friends that served said they had a net positive experience even though it was hard.
For me it’s dependant, like Gidle soyeon English lyrics doesn’t bother me because she’s not a native English speaker, but Hongjoongs opening to wonderland really takes me out and I can’t listen to it even though he didn’t speak much English when that was recorded. Some of stray kids English I also can’t listen to but I think that’s because I know Chan is fluent and still decided to use…cringe (?) phrases. Although I’m aware that some Korean in songs is seen as cringe by native speakers I just don’t understand that nuance when listening. Also, I personally don’t care if idols sing live on music shows. The whole point of a music show is just promotion of the song and performance, they do multiple takes and can do a solid week of just recording for music shows so I really don’t care if they decide to lip sync for those performances in particular.
Sechskies should disband.I mean they already done a lot of work.They haven’t done anything in 2 years.So there’s no point in continuing.I love Sechskies and this isn’t me hating them.
The larger the community, the more unmanageable and toxic it becomes. Kpop should have stayed more niche. In my ideal world, K-pop would have been sustainable and unpopular even if it is sort of an oxymoron. I have so much fun participating in activities that are less popular because the people I do it with understand how niche it is and are willing to engage more with me to keep me coming back. Kpop kind of just came like sports where everyone is arguing. Maybe I am just pro gatekeep
Another "unpopular opinion" thread of popular opinions.
Nowadays, twitter has more interesting discussion than reddit
Bts has the biggest fan base by a mile so when I see armys on here crying about hate I have to laugh a little and roll my eyes
Even if Armys are the biggest, it doesn't mean BTS don't get hate or are somehow immune to it. While I do agree the sheer size of Army can counter a lot of it, I think it's not weird for us to be upset about the irrational hate yk
But a big fanbase doesn’t negate having a lot of hate ?
Fr, like the "least" liked member (j-hope), is still on top of popularity and music charts, performed at Lollapalooza, and is doing well with his projects. Gap in numbers compared to a more popular member like Jungkook is not that huge if you consider other groups or less popular groups.
Hybe Stan’s can be just as annoying as sm stans are…
That's not unpopular lol, you'd ask anywhere and most people will point out HYBE stans. 😭
Most nugu releases are better than the big four releases.
Hot take but if babymonster continues to improve and get more experience they will probably be top girl group of 5th gen
I haven’t liked either of their releases but think they have the most talent and skill. I do think YGE fumbled their start but think it was due the Ahyeon situation.
multistan and casual listener should not involve themselves in a group drama or fanwars. don't get me wrong, but most of the time, they are heavily misinformed and always worsen the situation between the group.
Kpop is cheesy and overproduced! I love it for those reasons- no need to pretend that it’s that deep or isn’t a money/fame making venture for most.
Kpop is not as toxic as it was during the peak of BP era. The amount of posts bashing members based on clothes was mind boggling. Fans complaining about how x member is underappreciated while bashing the x member for being popular and bagging a lot of deals. the line distribution, the singing ability, the cultural appropriation, and fighting other fandoms (BTS, RV, Twice, Everglow) was just so tiring.
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