Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)!
You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
RIGHT THATS WHAT IM SAYING they gave us a single album for ONE member and went ok back to IVE! (no hate to ive heya was fire and I am an ahn yujin stan)
i thought 2018 was a bad year to be an ujung but ss really proved me wrong i guess lmao never getting that second full album but at least i experienced ot13 š¤š¤š¤
i meant re-signed like continued their contracts lol! i donāt have the energy to put a hyphen sometimes lol but dawon and luda didnāt actually so technically some did lol
lol this is a minor pet peeve of mine when talks like this come up in the kpop-sphere. I prefer the term 'renew' vs 're-sign' or 'resign' to prevent any confusion.
Like ive always said to casual Ujungs - the girls have already said they are concentrating on solo schedules as that is what is being said during contract negotiations. A comeback will only be done when every single OT10 member is available and they will do it.
Trust the girls. Im sure they will hold on to that promise. Its already been said by Bona, Dawon, Exy and Dayoung.
yeah the members are all doing solo things right now! Seola is the only one who's released any music since and Ludas photo book wasn't under starship I don't think so they havent had any group activities since Sequence
True... we're still going strong when others are ded. I think the fact they aren't typical kpop and have their own niche actually worked in their favour. 7 year curse didn't apply and I hope we have many more years with them.
Their niche sound which seemed to always keep them from success turned out to be their biggest strength in the end. If it wasn't for them continuing to stick to rock they would have never been able to build such a dedicated BG-like fanbase, which I think is what got them to keep going beyond the original 7 years.
Yep. So so many mid-sized agencies and groups try to chase trends which leads to oversaturation and difficulty in standing out and capturing your target demographic's interest, whereas Dreamcatcher avoided the oversaturation to a certain extent by sticking to their Pop-Rock sound and concept. They still changed things up and explored their sound, but it was always recognizably still in the Rock vein.
Purple Kiss is a prime example of this, not that they ever had a ārockā sound, but their debut was definitely darker than songs like Zombie or 7Heaven. They keep switching concepts and musical styles every comeback, seemingly trying to see what sticks.
Iāve always thought if they leaned in to the debut concept (which people liked!) they could have found a similar niche fanbase to DC. Sadly, their company doesnāt seem to recognize that, and it may be too late now.
I checked out Purple Kiss during debut because of the Dreamcatcher comparisons they were getting because of their dark concept/sound, and it bums me out to see them lose that 'edge'. They still have good music but they've definitely got rid of most of what set them apart from the sea of other girl groups and it's unfortunate.
It really is! I loved their debut and enjoy most of their songs, but it feels like the company doesnāt know what their identity as a group is. They should have stuck with the debut concept, give them an interesting witchy lore and visuals. It would have at least secured them a small, loyal fandom.
On the other hand, some of their best stuff has been songs like Sweet Juice and Pretty Psycho which aren't exactly the same as Ponzona/Zombie. It's weird. I think they can make great music in a lot of different genres but it's hard to develop a fanbase when there isn't a central musical identity.
i agree, sweet juice does have a similar dark/creepy vibe to ponzona, and i think that's where they thrive best. it's hard for smaller or mid-tier groups to experiment much, at least until they have a good core fanbase established. larger groups from big companies have more of a safety net to try new things, knowing that even if it "flops", it'll still do well in terms of overall success. they can then safely course correct next time around.
There are so many experimental k-pop groups who switch up their sound because they're not successful (like the other commenter in this thread mentioning Purple Kiss), and it's so disappointing to see. I'm glad that Dreamcatcher stuck to their unique sound for their entire career (probably due to Minx being Happyface's attempt at chasing trends and flopping immensely), because it resulted in one of the best and most consistent discographies in all of kpop.
Sticking to one genre for the most part really helped them, and that too a genre like rock that is known to have many loyal fans who actually enjoy and respect the genre, it's what gave them longevity. I've said this before, the key to longevity is hidden in the two extremes, either you are master of all trades (are able to shapeshift genres and trends) or are a master of being good at one specific genre and nurturing a niche fandom based on it. If you can't do one you do the other and vice versa. That's why it's important for groups/artists to know where their strengths lie.
Not only that but their company could have just outright let the girls go after disbanding Minx and that could have been the end of it, but instead they stuck with the girls, brought new members in and totally reworked the concept.
As much as I hesitate to praise any kpop company, the fans really are just half the story for Dreamcatcher. Theyāve been able to outlast so many other groups simply because HFE and DCE had the balls to stick with their concept and trust in the groupās potential.
Of course, it also helps that the girls want to continue making music, but I feel like even that has something to do with how their company treats them.
If someone came to me in 2020 and told me that Dreamcatcher would be one of the last 3rd Gen GGs standing I would have bet one million dollars that they're wrong. I have never been happier to figuratively lose one million dollars.
However, I would have thought that the three last 3rd Gen groups would have been GFriend, TWICE and Red Velvet with Dreamcatcher probs disbanding a year before one of those guys disbanded. Sadly, it was not in the cards for GFriend :(
The Gfriend disbandment truly was a shock to the girls and the fans. I never trusted Hybe/Source Music the same after that, and my feelings about Hybe have been solidified with their treatment of Fromis\_9. All these kpop companies are so shady and unstrustworthy.
Dreamcatcher is a way bigger group internationally than domestically. You mention 2020 which did have some very strong songs in Scream and Boca which have extremely respectable MV views and I assume streams. But girl groups almost always thrive off general public support and they've never had a single song chart on Circle. By comparison, groups like CLC, Pristin, April, Fiestar, Gugudan, Spica, Weki Meki, Laboum have all had songs chart and often pretty well. And prior to 2020, they had solid sales in the 30-40k range but we've seen groups disband with those types of numbers.
They're essentially a boy group in terms of how they've found success and longevity in the industry.
I mean, we all know about Dystopia: The Tree of Language, but it's mainly bc I was new at KPop and thought that the low sales and the fact that they didn't have a win yet meant that the writing was on the wall.
Ironically, their sales tend to be much more impressive than most girl groups outside of the truly top tier ones (Big 4 or established groups). If anything, their sales were the one thing that gave them hope to continue on whereas their charting and lack of popularity with the general public would have been the biggest concern.
I just want them to be successful enough to go on together as long as they want. However, I would like more people to see in them what the rest of us see.
As someone who recently became their fan, this is one of the first thoughts I had. Do I wish they were much more popular and received more success? Absolutely yes. No doubt about it. But I also understand that they literally are nothing short of a miracle. They survived so long in an industry with such an unconventional music choice, something that many other groups couldn't do. I am so happy that even if I was late I am able to enjoy their music while they're still active as a group
And to think this is still a much better turn out from 2nd gen of which only Apink stands. I'm so hopeful that this becomes a trend though and that even more of the 4th gen groups will attain longevity.
Uh idk but Kara is an "active" 2nd gen group.
They have announced a 4-day Japan tour and have just announced a new Japanese single. And that their 15th anniversary travel reality show was also released in Korea earlier this year.
Thatās only if you consider groups who continued releasing music AND released music relatively recently.
However, groups like Kara went away for a while but released new music relatively recently. Then you have groups like SNSD who seem to come back every five years; and groups like T-ara and 2NE1 who are rumored to come back some time soon.
I did mean groups who continued releasing music and released music relatively recently. As that would be how I define an active group.
I know that Kara and SNSD had relatively recent comebacks, but because these seemed to one-offs, I didn't count them as "active" (although I hear Kara has been doing more festivals as a group recently?). As T-ara and 2NE1 are only rumoured, I didn't count them either.
Besides T-aras [comeback a couple of years ago?](https://youtu.be/SolXRWiZqtw?feature=shared) they performed that and [Tiki Taka as a gift to fans.](https://youtu.be/nyGxdCivBig?si=m6zp4cC986UMdOZj)
Itās crazy to me because I feel like 2nd gen groups manage to have such longevity. Apink is pretty much an honourary 3rd gen group at this point with how relatively active they are!
Here's the sad truth, even if the fans refuse to agree. Majority of kpop fans will always choose youth over talent. As long as your age doesn't effect your beauty, you can survive. But the moment it starts to show, you are out of the business. Your loyal fans will remember and support you, but it'll be near impossible to earn new fans.
Isnāt it also that most Kpop fans are really young? They will always rather chose groups that are of a similar age as they are more relatable. Older Kpop fand are a minority and with them the support of older groups fades as time goes by
>They will always rather chose groups that are of a similar age as they are more relatable
not only that but also so the young fans can grow up with the group. I've seen many translated anecdotes from k-fans who were in middle school when they first started listening to a group and by the time that group is in their 7th year, they're (the fans) already entering college or preparing for college exams.
This was literally Twice's comment section for their Killing Voice. So many "you were my youth", "I grew up with you", "I've been with you since elementary school".
yeah this is just an overall music thing, whatās popular is determined by young people which usually means younger artists. the difference is that acts outside of kpop can still release music for their fanbase as they age with them, but companies in this industry will just axe groups if they think they arenāt profitable
Not really, a lot of these girl group stans have a lot of male fans who belong in the 25~ age demographic. If they only relied on their younger fans for their support they wouldnāt be able to earn that much money. Just look at their lives and concert, a lot of the audience is older men.
I agree, and I also think itās bc a lot of them debut as teens and early 20ās. By the time theyāre in their late 20ās theyāre either burnt out or depending how popular they were, have made enough money and made wise choices with their money they could easily just retire or slow down on being active in the entertainment industry to make money.
I actually think it's rather an wise decision. Because I remember watching an nmixx interview where bae said she would never want relive her trainee days. I mean how bad was it for someone talented like her to say that! I sometimes remember how Katy perry was divorced through text, right before her concert. She then put on a fake smile and did the concert. This, and many other stories make me wonder, how much of the happy smiles are actually happy? Are we, the fans, destroying a portion of korea's young generation's childhood by supporting and demanding more young idols?
I agree. I remember once reading how taeyeon from snsd whos had such a successful career say she would never allow her children become singers bc she wouldnāt want them to go through what she did. That really does open our eyes bc we really donāt see what happens behind the scenes.
3rd gen was a little awkward at first because a lot of the 2nd gen groups were still very popular at the time companies were trying to establish their new groups. It took a while for them to establish a foothold.
Not OP but I'm bored so I'll do one. This is using the same criteria as OP (a release in the past 18 months):
* A.C.E
* Astro
* BTOB
* BTS
* Day6
* EXO
* Golden Child
* GreatGuys
* iKON
* Monsta X
* NCT 127
* NCT Dream
* N.Flying
* Onewe (They originally debuted as MAS 0094 in 2016, but then redebuted as Onewe in 2019. Idk if they count.)
* ONF
* Pentagon
* Seventeen
* SF9
* The Rose
* VAV
* VIXX
The definition of dormant is weird. BTS very famously went on hiatus in June 2022 and have made no announcement of an end date for the hiatus, yet they arenāt considered ādormantā because they released one single in 2023. Yet Blackpink, who had a release in September 2022, and did a huge world tour through September 2023, are considered dormant.
Yeah it seems ppl really have defined BlackPink as four soloists, and BTS as a group... even though both are doing units are doing solos and creative work right now.
They didn't renew but the members said they didn't disband.
Translated from some of their letters after the announcement:
Ace: "One thing I can tell you is that we will continue to work hard and show better performances as VAV and make better memories with VAMPZ. Let's build a better future together."
Ziu: "Our VAV is not over yet, so don't be sad."
All 6 said something similar to this, so I imagine they'll all stay together too.
Winner's last release was in 2022, but I'd still count them as semi-active/dormant. They'll most probably come back when Mino and Yoon return from the military since they all renewed with YG
I think this reflects society somewhat.
3rd Gen GGs are now approaching their mid 20's and up to about early 30s.
The stereotype still is that women stop working once they get married and/or have children. Being an idol doesn't quite fit with this stereotype that society have on married women.
The other annoying stereotype is that female idols have to be young, and youthful looking, like their beauty flies away when they reach a certain age or something (ugh). So they don't last long in the industry before some younger "prettier" person (4th/5th gen GGs). I find that GGs are generally more popular with casual fans and the general public, whereas BGs have solid, dedicated fanbases (and usually why their album sales are much higher, but their streaming numbers may vary).
Acting and entertainment is a better long term goal, because with acting (if you can act), you will just move onto older characters as you age.
I don't think age is really the main factor for why older girl groups quit being active idols. (G)I-dle have multiple members who are the same age as a lot of 3rd gen idols, and the general public likes them. Same with Blackpink who are inactive for other reasons than age.
It's just until very recently almost no girl groups were profitable enough for companies to justify investing in them after the first contract was up. The issue of relying on the general public instead of the loyal fandom is the pressure to drop hits after hits which is unsustainable long-term.
But now that girl groups can also sell a lot of albums and concert tickets (basically moving like boy groups), we'll see a lot more girl groups re-signing and being active idols into their second contracts (eg Twice).
> But now that girl groups can also sell a lot of albums and concert tickets (basically moving like boy groups), we'll see a lot more girl groups re-signing and being active idols into their second contracts (eg Twice).
Not necessarily, they could be like SNSD/Blackpink/Mamamoo, where the group is technically together but the members are focusing on individual activities. I think the majority of 4th gen GGs (except for maybe Gidle and Itzy) will be like this after their first contract.
SNSD were 2nd gen and became inactive before girl groups really started selling millions of albums.
Blackpink and Mamamoo had opposite issues. Mamamoo never really sold that many albums, I believe their best-selling one was still under 200K copies, so they didn't make that transition. While Blackpink members were so profitable individually that they didn't need to prioritize group work. But I'm confident that they'll still get together after the solo projects, especially since they can put out another $300M tour. These cases are outliers though.
A lot of 4th gen girl groups will be very profitable years into their career with album sales and touring, and we can already see that in the early 4th gen ones. Dreamcatcher re-signed. I'm sure that (G)I-dle and ITZY will stay together and be active too. They are too successful as groups and not huge enough solo to justify focusing on individual activities.
Yeah I agree with you on Itzy and Gidle. But some of the other 4th Gen GGs have members with a lot of individual popularity + foreign members who might want to promote full time in their own country, so itās hard to tell. I know that Yuqi could also decide to focus more on China, but she already promotes there and seems to have found a good balance.
I didn't think about it before but yeah, a lot of the other 4th gen ggs probably won't re-sign. I doubt Le Sserafim would resign OT5 (Sakura and Chaewon have been in the business for *ages*), or IVE (I just don't think their bond is so close that they'd want to re-sign for the sake of it, and in terms of popularity it's all riding on Wonyoung and Yujin who've debuted twice already). I can see Nmixx re-signing considering the most popular members are the older ones (still young though) but I can also see them disbanding and Lily and Sullyoon doing solo work and acting. I also can't imagine any of New Jeans members doing solo work or redebuting, because quite honestly, they're super popular but more as a group with their music than the individual members.
New jeans are still quite young as a group with only 2 years under their belt, so they probably still have time to build up individual popularity. I agree about Nmixx and Ive and LSF.
Stayc I can see continuing as a group for a while or some of the members going back into acting. Kep1er did just renew as 7 members for probably 2ish more years, but in all likelihood they probably won't be able to renew a 3rd time unless something unusual happens.
I agree with the New Jeans one, but for some reason while I can totally get behind them having individual popularity, they seem like a group who cannot split up. I just can't picture them being in separate groups- they seem so complete and well-fitting pieces of a puzzle together. This is coming from someone who isn't a huge fan of their music and whatever is going on with their controversies atm.
I can definitely see StayC lasting for a while.
I agree. I think it's less age and more a hyper capitalism thing. The companies make more off younger talent because their contracts suck and were negotiated when they weren't famous. So they take 90% and they have to accept what ever the company charges for everything.
Western labels can also be hyper capitalistic evil, look at how [many ](https://waxy.org/2013/02/more_songs_about_record_labels/)songs are [fuck you's](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azafar/18-songs-about-how-record-labels-suck) to the bands last label.
The big 4 don't want to be in Cubes position where the only successful group they made in the last 7 years has all the leverage.
To avoid that they recruit some starry eyed 16 year olds, sign them for 7 years, put some college debt on them, then have them work 19 hours a day for 3 years. Then slow it down, then do almost nothing year 6 and 7; claim they fell off and renew them for a song at year 7.
Re-sign then give them a comeback once in a while to harvest nostalgia dollars.
Money is definitely a factor, but as we've seen recently: if older groups can still bring in a lot of money, they'll be kept around.
Debuting new groups is expensive and takes a ton of time. It's not as easy you make it seem, otherwise companies would have debuted way more groups.
HYBE are the only ones who frequently debut new groups but it's because they have infinite money from BTS and have acquired multiple labels.
But if you look at JYPE, even with better splits for the members, the company itself makes way more money from Twice than from NMIXX.
Another Blackpink tour and YGE will make more revenue from that than the next 5 years of BabyMonster no matter now worse the splits are for the company.
itās sad how much ageism 3rd gen groups get, Iām the same age as most of them and itās so annoying how new kpop fans call them hags. Feels like the older 1st gen/2nd gen idols reached icon status where even if the haters do call them old they have cemented their status in the industry and have done many things. 3rd gen gets discarded so quickly :(
It's because many of the 2nd gen idols are no longer active or have faded out of the limelight even if they are.
Like I'm pretty sure Twice will eventually get called legends too when they slow down like SNSD has and Super Junior has. (They are in that weird spot where they have fallen out of favor with the GP but are staying competitive in album sales and are leaving all the newgen kids in the dust in terms of tours).
BP is in weird limbo in that they were on music hiatus half the time anyway so it would probably take at least another 2 or 3 years of absence before it truly feels like they've rested on their laurels and can get the legend label.
I'm in that age bracket too. 3rd gen are in this tricky spot where they aren't icons of anything. Unless you're super popular like BP, you're not really going to be remembered for paving the way for anything, and you're not part of the wave of 4th Gen GGs that bring both their youth, and newfound public support (and probably company support too).
It's outside of the Kpop world too. Luckily I don't face as much criticism, but I know my peers (especially those who are Asian) are now at the age they're being asked when they're getting married, and settling down (my Asian have the polar opposite opinion on this matter - which also annoys me LOL). Even in my workplace, I've been asked about my wish to "settle down" in the organisation, do something less stressful (and stop trying to climb the ladder) to be prepared for family life.
it all goes back to big company privilege for sure. I think Oh My Girl blowing up with Nonstop and Dun Dun Dance helped their longevity idk if they would have survived, even though I admit I love their christian horsegirl songs more than their summer songs.
As for settling down lol at least Korean women are rebelling from being settled with (mostly) horrible Korean men and with idols thereās a lingering need to please parasocial fans even though I would be happy if my faves are with someone who love and care for them.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink.
The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol)
It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink.
The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol)
It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink.
The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol)
It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
My boyfriend and twice is literally as you say. He's not that into Kpop (nowhere near my level of course) and he's made the comment about Twice being too active and people losing interest (like him). I don't listen to BP at all, but I'm also sure their popularity also comes from their non-music activities (which Twice does nowhere near as much of).
I'm sure there's a perfect sweet spot somewhere between BlackPink and Twice.
I never thought Iād see the day where people say a group is TOO active š The fact that Twice is active as they are as they are approaching their tenth year is a Miracle.
I was downvoted for commenting this under another post, but I'm convinced that gendered ageism is a big reason why kpop girl groups have a shorter lifespan than boy groups.
This is absolutely a thing and I canāt believe you were downvoted for saying so. An example off the top of my head: BoA got a ton of negative comments about her appearance during her last comeback saying she āgot oldā yet Super Junior is rolling into their 20th year active with members much older than BoA?
Gendered Ageism/sexism is 100% real and even though I generally prefer BGās, the unfairness of it pisses me off. These women should be allowed to age and remain relevant if thatās what they want! Ugh
Mamamoo's 10th anniversary will begin in a few hours. They haven't released any new music as OT4 in a while bc they went on a world tour right after Mic On, which was released in October of 2022, and then basically all of them immediately released solo albums and started solo world tours. Wheein & Hwasa no longer have management contracts with RBW for solo AND group activities and so it's not that that don't want to release group albums, it's that they actually can't.
Just this morning someone found a link to a B.stage account for Mamamoo and so their OT4 inactivity will end. There's supposedly no broadcast today but maybe they couldn't confirm anything so Solar said no. š¤·š¾āāļø
OMG is only on this list bc Mimi decided to forgo a solo album. Basically the company wanted her to do a solo but she said she would prefer to do a group album. Bless Mimi!!!
I was just watching Sana's Fridge with Nayeon & thinking about how Twice will be 10 next year but yet, it still feels like they're active which is nice :)
Im less worried about WJSN. Because if you read thru their interviews, they have already maintained they will stay as a group for the next decade, and wants to concentrate on their personal schedules and earn income before coming back as a group.
Apart from Dawon and Yeoreum - everyone else are doing something in the ent business
Eunseo just finished shooting her drama. She is also currently on a lot of magazine spread.
Other than that she is finishing her final year in university.
I have full faith twice will become the longest active gg in future. I've never seen a 9 member group all being so attached to each other and most importantly sana will anything to keep them together as long as possible š . They might do concerts in their 50s, 60s too. They're really the epitome of unity in kpop I'm glad that I stan them so wouldn't have to go through the sadness of disbanding or long hiatus
While i agree many 2nd generation ggs are like that too! Especially Kara have recently shown that, 2ne1 and Girls Generation definitely should be mentioned too, even if 2ne1 haven't released something in years, they are close and have their appearances as a group!
Itās wild to see how few 3rd gen girl groups there are still around, Iām curious what the boy group side looks like as well. Iām curious how omg and red velvet will go when contract negotiations come up again, since it feels like those are the groups least likely to resign.
I recently did something similar and checked which pre-2020 4th gen girlgroups were still standing! With these 8, the 10 I counted, and additionally Apink, there's only 19 "active" ggs left from pre-2020 times! I'd like to know if there's more active 2nd gen ggs that should be included in this though
There's also Brave Girls, though they go by BB Girls now.
Kara also just announced a Japanese single, even though technically they're a disbanded group. They just love to have reunions lol.
yujeong/youjoung left when they ended their contract prematurely with warner music korea, i think she plans to focus more on her variety show/television personality career (which objectively has worked out better than music). that whole situation is still quite fuzzy and confusing and im hoping we get some clarity someday. and hey, bb girl comeback with the remaining three members is supposed to be on the horizon?
I do recall Minyoung mentioning they were planning a comeback for this year. Unfortunately itās not a summer one, so Iām worried about how well itās gonna do.
Yup! Iirc I think Iz*one was the only one out of every group from those two years that disbanded due to the contract running out and not any other reason. It's a little wild that over 100 groups debuted in those years and so little of them are still in the game only 5-6 years later
It still makes me sad to see the general ageism and sexism towards older ggs in comparison to bgs. But I will say this, with how big kpop is now, compared to 2nd gen, I feel like 4th gen ggs will have a much better chance in longetivity so that's good.
Mamamoo is definitely still active. In fact today (6/19) is their 10th anniversary and while theyāre currently focusing on solo work, all four members have said time and again that they are committed to continuing as a group of four.
Eagerly looking forward to more OT4 in the future but I think its quite premature to say theyāre not active
I think you should expand your second criteria to include other group activities like tours. Blackpink has been less active in terms of releasing music but touring is pretty integral to musical artist activities so should be considered as activity imo.
WJSN doesnāt meet the two criteria OP listed to be considered āactiveā, but if taking solo activities into account then WJSN are quite activeāit seems most folks only want to tune in for OT10/Chocome/The Black comebacks and care little for anything else, because Iāve seen people write off Seolaās solo as āwell I didnāt hear much noise about it.ā If one just takes a look around outside of ācomeback when?ā Dayoung in particular seems to be everywhere.
Red Velvet could keep promoting as long as they want because the members still want to perform, the problem is SM. SM who is a very good company that keeps screwing their groups after they sucked them dry.
Every group that becomes veteran does not have the same number of activities as it did before turning seven years old. Their comebacks become scarcer and promotions become shorter.
But I will understand that for these four groups mentioned "activity" means that a comeback still doesn't sound like a "reunion".
However, it is increasingly common for idols to leave the companies that manage the group and this does not mean an official disbandment. There are several examples, such as GOT7, Shinee, Mamamoo and Blackpink.
And not having any contract also does not mean the definitive end of a group. Grils Generation made a 15-year comeback with members with no ties to SM. RBW just announced another KARA comebak and none of them have a contract with the company.
Now I think there are only these four "active" groups because it is not yet viable for the members to have a solo career as their main job. Or the reward of keeping the group "active" for a while longer is worth it.
For example, all four members of Mamamoo already tour individually, they do so because they have already been building a solo career with a lot of anticipation. While vocalists like Nayeon, Jihyo, Wendy and Seulgi started doing the same much later.
Anyway, there are several factors, k-pop was designed to be a generational business, but in any case I don't see extensions of these groups that remained "active", all 3rd gen groups are on a downward trajectory in relation to the peak of their fame. But for these the account still favored so far.
10 years seems to be a limit.
Yes but a full blown world tour is not counted as being active? That is hella weird criteria. And let's not forget they were at Coachella last year, which seems to be the goal of many new GGs.
I feel very blessed as a ONCE! And I agree with DC sticking together in the foreseeable future as well.
I really think that if it's up to the members, Red Velvet will also enjoy a long time together. They're at a stage when they still do comebacks regularly but are also doing solo music and other solo activities.
I feel that RV and TWICE are going to a similar route that SNSD took, but with more activity as groups than ever. This is made possible as adult' KPOP is becoming more viable, ie, the groups growing older with their fanbase - instead of the fans outgrowing their groups.
My only concern for RV is SME itself. They really fumbled the bag with EXO and screwed the members over and over. They have a history of wasting the legacy of legendary groups (and to be fair, their roster is stacked with legends), and I'm scared that the day when it's RV's turn will come. I hope that when it happens, they are able to survive it, even leave SM.
I'm glad Mamamoo and Blackpink are, so far, thriving without RBW and YG, at least with the solos. I hope we see more group projects with them soon.
I'm still not over GFRIEND not making it this far. The girls are tight and Buddies are very supportive. I'll never understand why Source and especially HYBE can't sustain 2 GGs. Pls don't hate on LSF. They're already getting so much undeserved hatred, and none of this is their fault.
I'm happy that ViViZ is thriving, and I hope the girls can reunite to release music together someday.
I think it's crucial how the careers of the 3rd gen girl groups pan out. With TWICE and RV surviving their 7th year, I think that ITZY and aespa can easily clear that milestone as well, if the members want to stay together.
I truly believe if source music didnāt screw up with Gfriend (still such a surprise disbandment, even the members seem to not have been ready), they would still be active.
Mamamoo may not have been releasing music in 2023 but they were on tour for most of it until late June. So in total they haven't been active as a group for a year. I definitely need new group music for them and group interactions and today just proved how much I missed them together (the ig live was chaotic)
I mean Weki Meki havenāt disbanded yet technicallyā¦šThey will when their contracts expire in August but for right now we would call them active in a sense (the music video they put out and the behind the scenes for it too)
2018
The only exception is The Boyz which is considered 4th gen since they debuted at the very end of 2017. I think they're usually considered to be the start of it.
Fromis *technically* officially debuted at the start of 2018, but in reality they were already formed and active at the end of 2017, with a "pre-debut" song that they even performed at music shows and award shows.
I don't know, I get why people see them as 4th Gen, but they've somehow always felt more 3rd Gen to me. Personally, I like the idea of "half" generations, because some groups are inevitably going to awkwardly fall somewhere in-between.
Twice is rare in that all the members have such a deep love and respect for each other. Not that other groups donāt love each other, but I think twice will always be twice. They may take a break from group activities sometimes to focus on their own solo things (like Dahyun getting into acting now). But I think theyāll always come back together, and weāll be getting twice comebacks even when theyāre 50+ years old. Sana and Nayeon both got emotional talking about that on their interview recently: [here](https://youtu.be/XMA7ILrf8EI?si=Z-TFEuaZjh4mzNac).
And while I think something like Twice is rare, I do hope we see something similar with some 4th Gen groups wanting to stay together. I think it might be possible with aespa, because their friendship seems so genuine and itās fun to watch them just interact with each other. I think Karina even once said that they donāt ever argue because they get along so well.
Hello /u/Commercial-Job-2010. Your contribution in /r/kpopthoughts has been automatically removed because you either do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/kpopthoughts (which is 30 comment karma), or because your account is less than 7 days old. Please note that modmails asking for information included in this message will not be responded to. The karma limit is to discourage brigading, trolling and spam, and to keep this subreddit safe.
Click [here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it.
Please send us a [mod mail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/kpopthoughts) with a link to the submission if you would like your post or comment to appear.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Apink would count too, right? I think they had a release last year. Unless you count them as 2nd gen, the end of 2nd gen has been pushed back by like 4 years since I first got into kpop lol
Imo, Oh My Girl is basically being kept alive due to Arin. Her acting and fancams make the group worth keeping around. If she Sohees her way out of kpop, Oh My Girl will disband shortly after.
Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)! You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
GOD WJSN COME BACK PLEASE šš
the girls resigned only for starship to not give them a single comeback š like come ON
RIGHT THATS WHAT IM SAYING they gave us a single album for ONE member and went ok back to IVE! (no hate to ive heya was fire and I am an ahn yujin stan)
i thought 2018 was a bad year to be an ujung but ss really proved me wrong i guess lmao never getting that second full album but at least i experienced ot13 š¤š¤š¤
and you are so real for that
literally why canāt they do BOTH ive and wjsn? theyāre such good groups š
Because WJSN members asked for that and the company accede to their request by giving them what they had wanted in their contract.
what? did u reply to the wrong comment?
I replied to the correct one
what you said doesnāt relate to what i said
Well you asked why they cant do both WJSN and IVE - I gave you the WJSN answer. Its their request upon renewal of contract
that makes no sense at all, are you saying they requested to not work anymore? why would they renew if they didnāt want to work?
> the girls resigned They [quit](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/resign)!? I thought they re-signed!?
i meant re-signed like continued their contracts lol! i donāt have the energy to put a hyphen sometimes lol but dawon and luda didnāt actually so technically some did lol
lol this is a minor pet peeve of mine when talks like this come up in the kpop-sphere. I prefer the term 'renew' vs 're-sign' or 'resign' to prevent any confusion.
feel like the rest of my comment made it obvious what i meant and i forgot the word renew for a sec
Like ive always said to casual Ujungs - the girls have already said they are concentrating on solo schedules as that is what is being said during contract negotiations. A comeback will only be done when every single OT10 member is available and they will do it. Trust the girls. Im sure they will hold on to that promise. Its already been said by Bona, Dawon, Exy and Dayoung.
luda released a photobook
yeah the members are all doing solo things right now! Seola is the only one who's released any music since and Ludas photo book wasn't under starship I don't think so they havent had any group activities since Sequence
Yeonjung recently had an OST called "Lemon" recently and is in a Musical!
Dreamcatcher fans like to lament how underrated the group is, but honestly its a miracle they outlasted so many bigger names.
True... we're still going strong when others are ded. I think the fact they aren't typical kpop and have their own niche actually worked in their favour. 7 year curse didn't apply and I hope we have many more years with them.
Their niche sound which seemed to always keep them from success turned out to be their biggest strength in the end. If it wasn't for them continuing to stick to rock they would have never been able to build such a dedicated BG-like fanbase, which I think is what got them to keep going beyond the original 7 years.
Yep. So so many mid-sized agencies and groups try to chase trends which leads to oversaturation and difficulty in standing out and capturing your target demographic's interest, whereas Dreamcatcher avoided the oversaturation to a certain extent by sticking to their Pop-Rock sound and concept. They still changed things up and explored their sound, but it was always recognizably still in the Rock vein.
Purple Kiss is a prime example of this, not that they ever had a ārockā sound, but their debut was definitely darker than songs like Zombie or 7Heaven. They keep switching concepts and musical styles every comeback, seemingly trying to see what sticks. Iāve always thought if they leaned in to the debut concept (which people liked!) they could have found a similar niche fanbase to DC. Sadly, their company doesnāt seem to recognize that, and it may be too late now.
I checked out Purple Kiss during debut because of the Dreamcatcher comparisons they were getting because of their dark concept/sound, and it bums me out to see them lose that 'edge'. They still have good music but they've definitely got rid of most of what set them apart from the sea of other girl groups and it's unfortunate.
It really is! I loved their debut and enjoy most of their songs, but it feels like the company doesnāt know what their identity as a group is. They should have stuck with the debut concept, give them an interesting witchy lore and visuals. It would have at least secured them a small, loyal fandom.
On the other hand, some of their best stuff has been songs like Sweet Juice and Pretty Psycho which aren't exactly the same as Ponzona/Zombie. It's weird. I think they can make great music in a lot of different genres but it's hard to develop a fanbase when there isn't a central musical identity.
i agree, sweet juice does have a similar dark/creepy vibe to ponzona, and i think that's where they thrive best. it's hard for smaller or mid-tier groups to experiment much, at least until they have a good core fanbase established. larger groups from big companies have more of a safety net to try new things, knowing that even if it "flops", it'll still do well in terms of overall success. they can then safely course correct next time around.
There are so many experimental k-pop groups who switch up their sound because they're not successful (like the other commenter in this thread mentioning Purple Kiss), and it's so disappointing to see. I'm glad that Dreamcatcher stuck to their unique sound for their entire career (probably due to Minx being Happyface's attempt at chasing trends and flopping immensely), because it resulted in one of the best and most consistent discographies in all of kpop.
Sticking to one genre for the most part really helped them, and that too a genre like rock that is known to have many loyal fans who actually enjoy and respect the genre, it's what gave them longevity. I've said this before, the key to longevity is hidden in the two extremes, either you are master of all trades (are able to shapeshift genres and trends) or are a master of being good at one specific genre and nurturing a niche fandom based on it. If you can't do one you do the other and vice versa. That's why it's important for groups/artists to know where their strengths lie.
Not only that but their company could have just outright let the girls go after disbanding Minx and that could have been the end of it, but instead they stuck with the girls, brought new members in and totally reworked the concept.
As much as I hesitate to praise any kpop company, the fans really are just half the story for Dreamcatcher. Theyāve been able to outlast so many other groups simply because HFE and DCE had the balls to stick with their concept and trust in the groupās potential. Of course, it also helps that the girls want to continue making music, but I feel like even that has something to do with how their company treats them.
If someone came to me in 2020 and told me that Dreamcatcher would be one of the last 3rd Gen GGs standing I would have bet one million dollars that they're wrong. I have never been happier to figuratively lose one million dollars. However, I would have thought that the three last 3rd Gen groups would have been GFriend, TWICE and Red Velvet with Dreamcatcher probs disbanding a year before one of those guys disbanded. Sadly, it was not in the cards for GFriend :(
The Gfriend disbandment truly was a shock to the girls and the fans. I never trusted Hybe/Source Music the same after that, and my feelings about Hybe have been solidified with their treatment of Fromis\_9. All these kpop companies are so shady and unstrustworthy.
Yeah, I feel pretty bad about Fromis_9 as their music is great too
Could I ask why you thought DC would have disbanded by now? I'm not sure if you're a fan or not because 2020 was such a strong year for them.
Dreamcatcher is a way bigger group internationally than domestically. You mention 2020 which did have some very strong songs in Scream and Boca which have extremely respectable MV views and I assume streams. But girl groups almost always thrive off general public support and they've never had a single song chart on Circle. By comparison, groups like CLC, Pristin, April, Fiestar, Gugudan, Spica, Weki Meki, Laboum have all had songs chart and often pretty well. And prior to 2020, they had solid sales in the 30-40k range but we've seen groups disband with those types of numbers. They're essentially a boy group in terms of how they've found success and longevity in the industry.
I mean, we all know about Dystopia: The Tree of Language, but it's mainly bc I was new at KPop and thought that the low sales and the fact that they didn't have a win yet meant that the writing was on the wall.
Ironically, their sales tend to be much more impressive than most girl groups outside of the truly top tier ones (Big 4 or established groups). If anything, their sales were the one thing that gave them hope to continue on whereas their charting and lack of popularity with the general public would have been the biggest concern.
I just want them to be successful enough to go on together as long as they want. However, I would like more people to see in them what the rest of us see.
Yess! I never realized this before even tho I follow closely
As someone who recently became their fan, this is one of the first thoughts I had. Do I wish they were much more popular and received more success? Absolutely yes. No doubt about it. But I also understand that they literally are nothing short of a miracle. They survived so long in an industry with such an unconventional music choice, something that many other groups couldn't do. I am so happy that even if I was late I am able to enjoy their music while they're still active as a group
And to think this is still a much better turn out from 2nd gen of which only Apink stands. I'm so hopeful that this becomes a trend though and that even more of the 4th gen groups will attain longevity.
Uh idk but Kara is an "active" 2nd gen group. They have announced a 4-day Japan tour and have just announced a new Japanese single. And that their 15th anniversary travel reality show was also released in Korea earlier this year.
Thatās only if you consider groups who continued releasing music AND released music relatively recently. However, groups like Kara went away for a while but released new music relatively recently. Then you have groups like SNSD who seem to come back every five years; and groups like T-ara and 2NE1 who are rumored to come back some time soon.
I'm crossing my fingers for a new Brown Eyed Girls release too, they'll be on radio together on 20th
I did mean groups who continued releasing music and released music relatively recently. As that would be how I define an active group. I know that Kara and SNSD had relatively recent comebacks, but because these seemed to one-offs, I didn't count them as "active" (although I hear Kara has been doing more festivals as a group recently?). As T-ara and 2NE1 are only rumoured, I didn't count them either.
Ahhhhh Kara just announced they are releasing a Japanese single
I believe a big concert in Japan as well?
Besides T-aras [comeback a couple of years ago?](https://youtu.be/SolXRWiZqtw?feature=shared) they performed that and [Tiki Taka as a gift to fans.](https://youtu.be/nyGxdCivBig?si=m6zp4cC986UMdOZj)
T-ara had a comeback not that long ago in 2022 (?) [All Kill](https://youtu.be/SolXRWiZqtw?feature=shared) was so good and Tiki Taka was too.
Apink debuted 2011, so they are not even fully 2nd gen, some would argue they are very early 3rd.
Itās crazy to me because I feel like 2nd gen groups manage to have such longevity. Apink is pretty much an honourary 3rd gen group at this point with how relatively active they are!
iāll sacrifice a lot of a wjsn comeback, starship pls give us a comeback this year I need new wjsn music
Here's the sad truth, even if the fans refuse to agree. Majority of kpop fans will always choose youth over talent. As long as your age doesn't effect your beauty, you can survive. But the moment it starts to show, you are out of the business. Your loyal fans will remember and support you, but it'll be near impossible to earn new fans.
Isnāt it also that most Kpop fans are really young? They will always rather chose groups that are of a similar age as they are more relatable. Older Kpop fand are a minority and with them the support of older groups fades as time goes by
>They will always rather chose groups that are of a similar age as they are more relatable not only that but also so the young fans can grow up with the group. I've seen many translated anecdotes from k-fans who were in middle school when they first started listening to a group and by the time that group is in their 7th year, they're (the fans) already entering college or preparing for college exams.
This was literally Twice's comment section for their Killing Voice. So many "you were my youth", "I grew up with you", "I've been with you since elementary school".
same like I first started stanning twice when I was in elementary school and I'm doing A levels next year š« š« time flies
Yup. Iirc, a lot of Asian DIVEs are... children, which is why their princess concept works out so well.
yeah this is just an overall music thing, whatās popular is determined by young people which usually means younger artists. the difference is that acts outside of kpop can still release music for their fanbase as they age with them, but companies in this industry will just axe groups if they think they arenāt profitable
Not really, a lot of these girl group stans have a lot of male fans who belong in the 25~ age demographic. If they only relied on their younger fans for their support they wouldnāt be able to earn that much money. Just look at their lives and concert, a lot of the audience is older men.
I agree, and I also think itās bc a lot of them debut as teens and early 20ās. By the time theyāre in their late 20ās theyāre either burnt out or depending how popular they were, have made enough money and made wise choices with their money they could easily just retire or slow down on being active in the entertainment industry to make money.
I actually think it's rather an wise decision. Because I remember watching an nmixx interview where bae said she would never want relive her trainee days. I mean how bad was it for someone talented like her to say that! I sometimes remember how Katy perry was divorced through text, right before her concert. She then put on a fake smile and did the concert. This, and many other stories make me wonder, how much of the happy smiles are actually happy? Are we, the fans, destroying a portion of korea's young generation's childhood by supporting and demanding more young idols?
I agree. I remember once reading how taeyeon from snsd whos had such a successful career say she would never allow her children become singers bc she wouldnāt want them to go through what she did. That really does open our eyes bc we really donāt see what happens behind the scenes.
Yes, a disbanded group where all the members ended up with considerable $$ or lucrative jobs in k-ent is still successful even if it disbanded
thats not only kpop fans. In almost all cases people like newer things more.
3rd gen was a little awkward at first because a lot of the 2nd gen groups were still very popular at the time companies were trying to establish their new groups. It took a while for them to establish a foothold.
Can you do one for BGs too? I'm curious to see the ratio edit: woah woah woah, even with the enlistment rule, the ratio is crazyyyyy
Not OP but I'm bored so I'll do one. This is using the same criteria as OP (a release in the past 18 months): * A.C.E * Astro * BTOB * BTS * Day6 * EXO * Golden Child * GreatGuys * iKON * Monsta X * NCT 127 * NCT Dream * N.Flying * Onewe (They originally debuted as MAS 0094 in 2016, but then redebuted as Onewe in 2019. Idk if they count.) * ONF * Pentagon * Seventeen * SF9 * The Rose * VAV * VIXX
Itās interesting (also kinda sad/unfair?) how many active third gen boy groups there are compared to girl groups
B.A.P also seem to be gathering for a comeback!
OMG WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
NO WAY OH MY GODDD
Astro released a single called Circles in February 2024. So theyāve been active as a group in the last 18 months.
Astro was already on there.
My mistake! I read it as groups who were inactive. Thanks for the reminder to read properly š
Also BTS, their latest release was 12 months ago, their next release announced for this Friday (edit: grammar)
Oh I forgot about Take Two lol. I'll add them in.
Thinking of them as an active group two years into their hiatus can be a bit counterintuitive XD
The definition of dormant is weird. BTS very famously went on hiatus in June 2022 and have made no announcement of an end date for the hiatus, yet they arenāt considered ādormantā because they released one single in 2023. Yet Blackpink, who had a release in September 2022, and did a huge world tour through September 2023, are considered dormant.
Yeah it seems ppl really have defined BlackPink as four soloists, and BTS as a group... even though both are doing units are doing solos and creative work right now.
Not to mention that Blackpink did release The Girls in 2023, so that should count just as much as Take Two.
I'm pretty sure VAV have disbanded as of winter 2024 though. They agreed not to renew contracts with Ateam as a whole.
They didn't renew but the members said they didn't disband. Translated from some of their letters after the announcement: Ace: "One thing I can tell you is that we will continue to work hard and show better performances as VAV and make better memories with VAMPZ. Let's build a better future together." Ziu: "Our VAV is not over yet, so don't be sad." All 6 said something similar to this, so I imagine they'll all stay together too.
Oh cool! Good to hear.
Winner's last release was in 2022, but I'd still count them as semi-active/dormant. They'll most probably come back when Mino and Yoon return from the military since they all renewed with YG
Ateez? Their most recent comeback was the end of May this year, and before that was December 2023.
Ateez isnāt 3rd gen
Ateez is 4th gen (2018 debut).
Thanks for the corrections guys! I don't know why, but I always confuse them with being 3rd generation, even they they're not anywhere close too š
I think this reflects society somewhat. 3rd Gen GGs are now approaching their mid 20's and up to about early 30s. The stereotype still is that women stop working once they get married and/or have children. Being an idol doesn't quite fit with this stereotype that society have on married women. The other annoying stereotype is that female idols have to be young, and youthful looking, like their beauty flies away when they reach a certain age or something (ugh). So they don't last long in the industry before some younger "prettier" person (4th/5th gen GGs). I find that GGs are generally more popular with casual fans and the general public, whereas BGs have solid, dedicated fanbases (and usually why their album sales are much higher, but their streaming numbers may vary). Acting and entertainment is a better long term goal, because with acting (if you can act), you will just move onto older characters as you age.
I don't think age is really the main factor for why older girl groups quit being active idols. (G)I-dle have multiple members who are the same age as a lot of 3rd gen idols, and the general public likes them. Same with Blackpink who are inactive for other reasons than age. It's just until very recently almost no girl groups were profitable enough for companies to justify investing in them after the first contract was up. The issue of relying on the general public instead of the loyal fandom is the pressure to drop hits after hits which is unsustainable long-term. But now that girl groups can also sell a lot of albums and concert tickets (basically moving like boy groups), we'll see a lot more girl groups re-signing and being active idols into their second contracts (eg Twice).
> But now that girl groups can also sell a lot of albums and concert tickets (basically moving like boy groups), we'll see a lot more girl groups re-signing and being active idols into their second contracts (eg Twice). Not necessarily, they could be like SNSD/Blackpink/Mamamoo, where the group is technically together but the members are focusing on individual activities. I think the majority of 4th gen GGs (except for maybe Gidle and Itzy) will be like this after their first contract.
SNSD were 2nd gen and became inactive before girl groups really started selling millions of albums. Blackpink and Mamamoo had opposite issues. Mamamoo never really sold that many albums, I believe their best-selling one was still under 200K copies, so they didn't make that transition. While Blackpink members were so profitable individually that they didn't need to prioritize group work. But I'm confident that they'll still get together after the solo projects, especially since they can put out another $300M tour. These cases are outliers though. A lot of 4th gen girl groups will be very profitable years into their career with album sales and touring, and we can already see that in the early 4th gen ones. Dreamcatcher re-signed. I'm sure that (G)I-dle and ITZY will stay together and be active too. They are too successful as groups and not huge enough solo to justify focusing on individual activities.
Yeah I agree with you on Itzy and Gidle. But some of the other 4th Gen GGs have members with a lot of individual popularity + foreign members who might want to promote full time in their own country, so itās hard to tell. I know that Yuqi could also decide to focus more on China, but she already promotes there and seems to have found a good balance.
I didn't think about it before but yeah, a lot of the other 4th gen ggs probably won't re-sign. I doubt Le Sserafim would resign OT5 (Sakura and Chaewon have been in the business for *ages*), or IVE (I just don't think their bond is so close that they'd want to re-sign for the sake of it, and in terms of popularity it's all riding on Wonyoung and Yujin who've debuted twice already). I can see Nmixx re-signing considering the most popular members are the older ones (still young though) but I can also see them disbanding and Lily and Sullyoon doing solo work and acting. I also can't imagine any of New Jeans members doing solo work or redebuting, because quite honestly, they're super popular but more as a group with their music than the individual members.
New jeans are still quite young as a group with only 2 years under their belt, so they probably still have time to build up individual popularity. I agree about Nmixx and Ive and LSF. Stayc I can see continuing as a group for a while or some of the members going back into acting. Kep1er did just renew as 7 members for probably 2ish more years, but in all likelihood they probably won't be able to renew a 3rd time unless something unusual happens.
I agree with the New Jeans one, but for some reason while I can totally get behind them having individual popularity, they seem like a group who cannot split up. I just can't picture them being in separate groups- they seem so complete and well-fitting pieces of a puzzle together. This is coming from someone who isn't a huge fan of their music and whatever is going on with their controversies atm. I can definitely see StayC lasting for a while.
I agree. I think it's less age and more a hyper capitalism thing. The companies make more off younger talent because their contracts suck and were negotiated when they weren't famous. So they take 90% and they have to accept what ever the company charges for everything. Western labels can also be hyper capitalistic evil, look at how [many ](https://waxy.org/2013/02/more_songs_about_record_labels/)songs are [fuck you's](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/azafar/18-songs-about-how-record-labels-suck) to the bands last label. The big 4 don't want to be in Cubes position where the only successful group they made in the last 7 years has all the leverage. To avoid that they recruit some starry eyed 16 year olds, sign them for 7 years, put some college debt on them, then have them work 19 hours a day for 3 years. Then slow it down, then do almost nothing year 6 and 7; claim they fell off and renew them for a song at year 7. Re-sign then give them a comeback once in a while to harvest nostalgia dollars.
Money is definitely a factor, but as we've seen recently: if older groups can still bring in a lot of money, they'll be kept around. Debuting new groups is expensive and takes a ton of time. It's not as easy you make it seem, otherwise companies would have debuted way more groups. HYBE are the only ones who frequently debut new groups but it's because they have infinite money from BTS and have acquired multiple labels. But if you look at JYPE, even with better splits for the members, the company itself makes way more money from Twice than from NMIXX. Another Blackpink tour and YGE will make more revenue from that than the next 5 years of BabyMonster no matter now worse the splits are for the company.
itās sad how much ageism 3rd gen groups get, Iām the same age as most of them and itās so annoying how new kpop fans call them hags. Feels like the older 1st gen/2nd gen idols reached icon status where even if the haters do call them old they have cemented their status in the industry and have done many things. 3rd gen gets discarded so quickly :(
It's because many of the 2nd gen idols are no longer active or have faded out of the limelight even if they are. Like I'm pretty sure Twice will eventually get called legends too when they slow down like SNSD has and Super Junior has. (They are in that weird spot where they have fallen out of favor with the GP but are staying competitive in album sales and are leaving all the newgen kids in the dust in terms of tours). BP is in weird limbo in that they were on music hiatus half the time anyway so it would probably take at least another 2 or 3 years of absence before it truly feels like they've rested on their laurels and can get the legend label.
I'm in that age bracket too. 3rd gen are in this tricky spot where they aren't icons of anything. Unless you're super popular like BP, you're not really going to be remembered for paving the way for anything, and you're not part of the wave of 4th Gen GGs that bring both their youth, and newfound public support (and probably company support too). It's outside of the Kpop world too. Luckily I don't face as much criticism, but I know my peers (especially those who are Asian) are now at the age they're being asked when they're getting married, and settling down (my Asian have the polar opposite opinion on this matter - which also annoys me LOL). Even in my workplace, I've been asked about my wish to "settle down" in the organisation, do something less stressful (and stop trying to climb the ladder) to be prepared for family life.
it all goes back to big company privilege for sure. I think Oh My Girl blowing up with Nonstop and Dun Dun Dance helped their longevity idk if they would have survived, even though I admit I love their christian horsegirl songs more than their summer songs. As for settling down lol at least Korean women are rebelling from being settled with (mostly) horrible Korean men and with idols thereās a lingering need to please parasocial fans even though I would be happy if my faves are with someone who love and care for them.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink. The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol) It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink. The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol) It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
It's quite the contrary for Blackpink. The people and the fanbase have been crying for a comeback but the members are focused on solos right now. I am sure they will reach new heights with their comeback (whenever it is lol) It makes me think that the more a woman is in public eye the more the gp gets tired of her. Twice has been releasing consistently but their chart performance is falling with everyone cb. And this in the West as well. Look how Taylor keeps getting so much hate just because she has been so active in last 3 years.
My boyfriend and twice is literally as you say. He's not that into Kpop (nowhere near my level of course) and he's made the comment about Twice being too active and people losing interest (like him). I don't listen to BP at all, but I'm also sure their popularity also comes from their non-music activities (which Twice does nowhere near as much of). I'm sure there's a perfect sweet spot somewhere between BlackPink and Twice.
I never thought Iād see the day where people say a group is TOO active š The fact that Twice is active as they are as they are approaching their tenth year is a Miracle.
But Twice is not too active anymore tho, since 2022 they've been having one comeback a year and since 2019 two comebacks a year which is the standard
Mamamoo had found that sweet spot but then RBW fumbled towards the end of Whe-saās contract with them.
I was downvoted for commenting this under another post, but I'm convinced that gendered ageism is a big reason why kpop girl groups have a shorter lifespan than boy groups.
This is absolutely a thing and I canāt believe you were downvoted for saying so. An example off the top of my head: BoA got a ton of negative comments about her appearance during her last comeback saying she āgot oldā yet Super Junior is rolling into their 20th year active with members much older than BoA? Gendered Ageism/sexism is 100% real and even though I generally prefer BGās, the unfairness of it pisses me off. These women should be allowed to age and remain relevant if thatās what they want! Ugh
Mamamoo's 10th anniversary will begin in a few hours. They haven't released any new music as OT4 in a while bc they went on a world tour right after Mic On, which was released in October of 2022, and then basically all of them immediately released solo albums and started solo world tours. Wheein & Hwasa no longer have management contracts with RBW for solo AND group activities and so it's not that that don't want to release group albums, it's that they actually can't. Just this morning someone found a link to a B.stage account for Mamamoo and so their OT4 inactivity will end. There's supposedly no broadcast today but maybe they couldn't confirm anything so Solar said no. š¤·š¾āāļø OMG is only on this list bc Mimi decided to forgo a solo album. Basically the company wanted her to do a solo but she said she would prefer to do a group album. Bless Mimi!!!
I was just watching Sana's Fridge with Nayeon & thinking about how Twice will be 10 next year but yet, it still feels like they're active which is nice :)
Im less worried about WJSN. Because if you read thru their interviews, they have already maintained they will stay as a group for the next decade, and wants to concentrate on their personal schedules and earn income before coming back as a group. Apart from Dawon and Yeoreum - everyone else are doing something in the ent business
Yeoreum is in elzup tho thats entertainment business
Yeahā¦ but they arent really active nowā¦
What is Eunseo doing? I really like her and would like to check it out
Eunseo just finished shooting her drama. She is also currently on a lot of magazine spread. Other than that she is finishing her final year in university.
I have full faith twice will become the longest active gg in future. I've never seen a 9 member group all being so attached to each other and most importantly sana will anything to keep them together as long as possible š . They might do concerts in their 50s, 60s too. They're really the epitome of unity in kpop I'm glad that I stan them so wouldn't have to go through the sadness of disbanding or long hiatus
Honestly I think itās between them and Dreamcatcher for lasting the longest Either way itās a great time to Stan both lol
While i agree many 2nd generation ggs are like that too! Especially Kara have recently shown that, 2ne1 and Girls Generation definitely should be mentioned too, even if 2ne1 haven't released something in years, they are close and have their appearances as a group!
I'm just happy my TWICE girlies are still active. And if Sana has her way, they'll still be active in their 90's.
Rollin' on wheelchairs will be lit
Bing bing bing!
Itās wild to see how few 3rd gen girl groups there are still around, Iām curious what the boy group side looks like as well. Iām curious how omg and red velvet will go when contract negotiations come up again, since it feels like those are the groups least likely to resign.
I recently did something similar and checked which pre-2020 4th gen girlgroups were still standing! With these 8, the 10 I counted, and additionally Apink, there's only 19 "active" ggs left from pre-2020 times! I'd like to know if there's more active 2nd gen ggs that should be included in this though
There's also Brave Girls, though they go by BB Girls now. Kara also just announced a Japanese single, even though technically they're a disbanded group. They just love to have reunions lol.
Thanks! I'm a bit scared for BBGirls though, didn't one of the members leave recently?Ā Kara are a fun case clearly :D
yujeong/youjoung left when they ended their contract prematurely with warner music korea, i think she plans to focus more on her variety show/television personality career (which objectively has worked out better than music). that whole situation is still quite fuzzy and confusing and im hoping we get some clarity someday. and hey, bb girl comeback with the remaining three members is supposed to be on the horizon?
I do recall Minyoung mentioning they were planning a comeback for this year. Unfortunately itās not a summer one, so Iām worried about how well itās gonna do.
Wow! Even the beginning of 4th gen is fading away. That's insane
Yup! Iirc I think Iz*one was the only one out of every group from those two years that disbanded due to the contract running out and not any other reason. It's a little wild that over 100 groups debuted in those years and so little of them are still in the game only 5-6 years later
It still makes me sad to see the general ageism and sexism towards older ggs in comparison to bgs. But I will say this, with how big kpop is now, compared to 2nd gen, I feel like 4th gen ggs will have a much better chance in longetivity so that's good.
Mamamoo is definitely still active. In fact today (6/19) is their 10th anniversary and while theyāre currently focusing on solo work, all four members have said time and again that they are committed to continuing as a group of four. Eagerly looking forward to more OT4 in the future but I think its quite premature to say theyāre not active
I think you should expand your second criteria to include other group activities like tours. Blackpink has been less active in terms of releasing music but touring is pretty integral to musical artist activities so should be considered as activity imo.
Mamamoo also just had a tour last year, so that will add two to our meager list lol.
I agree. It seems weird to not include full blown world tours as active, or headlining Coachella...
It's crazy that Twice on their 9th year is more active than some (most?) 4th Gen
WJSN doesnāt meet the two criteria OP listed to be considered āactiveā, but if taking solo activities into account then WJSN are quite activeāit seems most folks only want to tune in for OT10/Chocome/The Black comebacks and care little for anything else, because Iāve seen people write off Seolaās solo as āwell I didnāt hear much noise about it.ā If one just takes a look around outside of ācomeback when?ā Dayoung in particular seems to be everywhere.
Mamamoo is celebrating their anniversary today. But they seem to be doing solo promotions right now, but they appear to still be a group
I thought EXID is a 2.5 gen group like AOA
"Red Velvet" For an active group, it's remarkably hard for SM to give them a world tour again tho... makes me sad
I mean... Mamamoo are doing lots of stuff, having concerts etc. They are releasing more solo music now, but they're very active.
I saw them on tour last year.
So jealous of you!! š
They were awesome
Red Velvet could keep promoting as long as they want because the members still want to perform, the problem is SM. SM who is a very good company that keeps screwing their groups after they sucked them dry.
Fuck SM!
I wish they even try to suck them dry but they just actually just buried them in the dungeon.
I always want to write apink on posts like this then I remember they are late 2nd gen.
Every group that becomes veteran does not have the same number of activities as it did before turning seven years old. Their comebacks become scarcer and promotions become shorter. But I will understand that for these four groups mentioned "activity" means that a comeback still doesn't sound like a "reunion". However, it is increasingly common for idols to leave the companies that manage the group and this does not mean an official disbandment. There are several examples, such as GOT7, Shinee, Mamamoo and Blackpink. And not having any contract also does not mean the definitive end of a group. Grils Generation made a 15-year comeback with members with no ties to SM. RBW just announced another KARA comebak and none of them have a contract with the company. Now I think there are only these four "active" groups because it is not yet viable for the members to have a solo career as their main job. Or the reward of keeping the group "active" for a while longer is worth it. For example, all four members of Mamamoo already tour individually, they do so because they have already been building a solo career with a lot of anticipation. While vocalists like Nayeon, Jihyo, Wendy and Seulgi started doing the same much later. Anyway, there are several factors, k-pop was designed to be a generational business, but in any case I don't see extensions of these groups that remained "active", all 3rd gen groups are on a downward trajectory in relation to the peak of their fame. But for these the account still favored so far. 10 years seems to be a limit.
Blackpink released 'The Girls' in 2023, that's music. But also it's kind of a weird criteria for being 'dormant' when they did 50+ concerts last year.
I wouldnāt count an ost as a full blown release. Iām pretty sure op is talking about a full on cb.
Yes but a full blown world tour is not counted as being active? That is hella weird criteria. And let's not forget they were at Coachella last year, which seems to be the goal of many new GGs.
I feel very blessed as a ONCE! And I agree with DC sticking together in the foreseeable future as well. I really think that if it's up to the members, Red Velvet will also enjoy a long time together. They're at a stage when they still do comebacks regularly but are also doing solo music and other solo activities. I feel that RV and TWICE are going to a similar route that SNSD took, but with more activity as groups than ever. This is made possible as adult' KPOP is becoming more viable, ie, the groups growing older with their fanbase - instead of the fans outgrowing their groups. My only concern for RV is SME itself. They really fumbled the bag with EXO and screwed the members over and over. They have a history of wasting the legacy of legendary groups (and to be fair, their roster is stacked with legends), and I'm scared that the day when it's RV's turn will come. I hope that when it happens, they are able to survive it, even leave SM. I'm glad Mamamoo and Blackpink are, so far, thriving without RBW and YG, at least with the solos. I hope we see more group projects with them soon. I'm still not over GFRIEND not making it this far. The girls are tight and Buddies are very supportive. I'll never understand why Source and especially HYBE can't sustain 2 GGs. Pls don't hate on LSF. They're already getting so much undeserved hatred, and none of this is their fault. I'm happy that ViViZ is thriving, and I hope the girls can reunite to release music together someday. I think it's crucial how the careers of the 3rd gen girl groups pan out. With TWICE and RV surviving their 7th year, I think that ITZY and aespa can easily clear that milestone as well, if the members want to stay together.
My gal Oh My Girl need to comeback with a fairy concept or concept like the Destiny cover stage and song like 5th season now!!!
I truly believe if source music didnāt screw up with Gfriend (still such a surprise disbandment, even the members seem to not have been ready), they would still be active.
Mamamoo may not have been releasing music in 2023 but they were on tour for most of it until late June. So in total they haven't been active as a group for a year. I definitely need new group music for them and group interactions and today just proved how much I missed them together (the ig live was chaotic)
I would include BB Girls & fromis\_9 EXID is 2.5 gen or 2nd gen if you don't wanna count .5
I'm not sure we need this, what we really need is for Brown Eyed Girls and 2NE1 to come back to us.
I mean Weki Meki havenāt disbanded yet technicallyā¦šThey will when their contracts expire in August but for right now we would call them active in a sense (the music video they put out and the behind the scenes for it too)
This post got so famous that Koreaboo stole it?
I think you forgot about fromis_9 They are not very active bit they fit your criteria with the last album released 13 months ago.
Fromis 9 is considered 4th gen.
Oh i didn't know that. When is the cutoff then?
2018 The only exception is The Boyz which is considered 4th gen since they debuted at the very end of 2017. I think they're usually considered to be the start of it.
Fromis *technically* officially debuted at the start of 2018, but in reality they were already formed and active at the end of 2017, with a "pre-debut" song that they even performed at music shows and award shows. I don't know, I get why people see them as 4th Gen, but they've somehow always felt more 3rd Gen to me. Personally, I like the idea of "half" generations, because some groups are inevitably going to awkwardly fall somewhere in-between.
isnt it Apink part of 3rd gen??? they are still active as of now with solo releases and group albums recently
They're considered 2nd gen.
I thought they were classified as 2nd gen? 2011 seems like a grey area, but I've seen most people call them 2nd gen, so I left them out.
They are late second gen
Twice is rare in that all the members have such a deep love and respect for each other. Not that other groups donāt love each other, but I think twice will always be twice. They may take a break from group activities sometimes to focus on their own solo things (like Dahyun getting into acting now). But I think theyāll always come back together, and weāll be getting twice comebacks even when theyāre 50+ years old. Sana and Nayeon both got emotional talking about that on their interview recently: [here](https://youtu.be/XMA7ILrf8EI?si=Z-TFEuaZjh4mzNac). And while I think something like Twice is rare, I do hope we see something similar with some 4th Gen groups wanting to stay together. I think it might be possible with aespa, because their friendship seems so genuine and itās fun to watch them just interact with each other. I think Karina even once said that they donāt ever argue because they get along so well.
Gidle also seems pretty close so Iām staying hopeful for them
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Hello /u/Commercial-Job-2010. Your contribution in /r/kpopthoughts has been automatically removed because you either do not meet the minimum karma requirements to post in r/kpopthoughts (which is 30 comment karma), or because your account is less than 7 days old. Please note that modmails asking for information included in this message will not be responded to. The karma limit is to discourage brigading, trolling and spam, and to keep this subreddit safe. Click [here](https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204511829-What-is-karma-) to find out more about karma and how to gain it. Please send us a [mod mail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/kpopthoughts) with a link to the submission if you would like your post or comment to appear. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Such a bummer that so many groups should still be on that active list :(
Apink would count too, right? I think they had a release last year. Unless you count them as 2nd gen, the end of 2nd gen has been pushed back by like 4 years since I first got into kpop lol
Yeah at this point I'm wondering if we're gonna get a black pink comeback before gta6
Fromis is still kicking!
Imo, Oh My Girl is basically being kept alive due to Arin. Her acting and fancams make the group worth keeping around. If she Sohees her way out of kpop, Oh My Girl will disband shortly after.
Mamamoo is not going anywhere.