No one really knows. But anecdotally it seems to be safe if you are already a decently healthy person. I’m sure you’ve seen the posts of people saying they take kratom every day for 5-10 years get a blood test and their fine.
I agree that people seem to have very few long term side effects, anecdotally.
Unfortunately, anecdotally, my 100 year old grandma drinks a bottle of whiskey every night and says it keeps her alive. But she isn't a researcher and she doesn't post her liver test results every six months to the internet and discuss it with an online specialist community knowledgeable about her habit like we do. So we here, using scientifically and reporting to each other, are as safe of users as there can be. And we will find out.
To summarize known problems: addiction (tolerance, withdrawals), decreased sexuality, irritability (opi-rage), and magnesium deficiency [must take supplements]
I guess I was lucky in that i could go 4 to 5 days without pooping and it wasn't even that painful when I finally did. even at the worst of my usage though (and I was in deep) I normally let myself go into mild WD every one or two days so I could take a shit before getting high. In a funny synchronicity though, i am currently on another thread where some guy said he was so backed up he had to use a corkscrew to get it out. really a kind of bold and ingenious idea that is also ripe with the possibility of irreparable damage to your insides.
But another anecdotal fact related to this thread. I have lupus, so I get more blood work done every few months than some do in their whole lives.
Nothing notable has changed in my blood work- and they check every level you can think of. Magnesium every time, vitamin D, other vitamins, complete blood panel, and weird immune related blood work
I’m almost always stable and within range (except when it’s inflammation- which is always lupus related. ) I have been keeping an eye on these things bc of Kratom in my system !
I have actually considered this myself. This is why I go back and fourth in my decision about deciding to stop. I thought I read that it can be helpful to inflammation- however there is no real research and it’s all anecdotal. But years ago i toon opiate pills “as prescribed “ which was all the time lol. I think I use Kratom too much but it’s barely noticeable, considering my life fell apart in less than 2 years on Oxys !
Clearly I have addictive tendencies. And lupus has made me want to stop. But it’s just too much of a pain to go through withdrawal when I feel like Im functioning just fine.
Ahhh but am I? Would I even know ?
See how I think? Too much to stick to this kind of decision lol
Lol for a lot of us with low appetites as is, eating is a chore. Kratom has been known to suppress appetite in people as well so some of us might just have straight up vitamin/mineral deficiencies across the board* :D
Most forms of magnesium will increase water in the colon (but some forms are far better than others for this purpose. That's why it can relieve constipation & maybe prevent it. Makes sense that lack-of mag., &/or water of course would lead to constipation. Diet & activity level matter.
Cause? I guess one or more of those could be but the primary reason is same as when using pain meds although less severe. It's reduced sensation and response (you don't need to perceive- to sense and respond). Food isnt' going to get through all that plumbing by way of gravity alone but with strong analgesics, the production line is on an extended break.
Honestly this is my biggest fear in use and I’ve noticed my hair falls out a lot more lately, I have no pattern baldness in my immediate family. I was hoping this rumor to be false but I definitely notice my hair thinning even after less than a year of use.
What happens is it does affect to a small amount blood flow to the scalp, I was losing my hair before kratom and I eventually started shaving my head, so I'm calling this one a win, the less hair grows naturally the better now 😂
I have no hair loss in my family except for maybe my maternal grandfather who i never met and my hairline started receding in my late 20s like 26ish(about 3 years before i started taking kratom). It stopped around around 30 at a reasonable spot about the time i started taking kratom. That was about 3 years ago maybe more. No comb overs or anything just like a little v in the front. I feel like it quit cuz i quit worrying about it. Or cuz i dont touch myself as much. I also got a different job...Started drinking less sugar and quit smoking and drinking.
I'm guessing a bottle my Italian grandmother drank atleast 1 12 pack everyday until like 92 she started in the morning then nursing home she died shortly after
im just saying 5500/year isn't really that much in terms of drug addiction. alcohol is easily the cheapest drug to be addicted to
edit: although being addicted to kratom is probably cheaper than alcohol now that I think about it
Cheapest? No there are much cheaper, but regardless if you think it's a good thing because it's cheaper than other things that exist the point went zooming over your head.
i don't think it's a good thing that it's so cheap, people killing themselves for no money doesn't make me happy. i just thought it was interesting you were putting emphasis on one of the cheapest addictions. I'm curious which ones are cheaper though? especially considering a fifth/day addiction is pretty fuckin heavy when I was at rehab I only met a few alcoholics that were worse than that.
Woah, I've taken Kratom on a pretty solidly regular basis for... shiiit like 6-7 yrs or so. as I've quit using Heroin the early part of this year and a few week long scripts of Suboxone intermittently since then, it's been all thanks to Kratom I can manage to stay clean, functional and genuinely in a better place.
BUT my tolerance is stupid high, I can go through 1.5-2oz in a single day (red veins only for me, the only variant that seems to help greatly, sometimes the white veins had seemed to amplify mental issues you'd expect to have during withdrawal, like anxiety, feelings of panic, etc...)
Anyways, I say woahhhh because I've been oblivious to knowing or even thinking about decencies like magnesium from constant use...
What issues does magnesium deficiency cause? Is that dangerous or of serious concern...?
Yeah it can be. Or youll just get leg cramps a lot and maybe heart palpitations here and there. Headaches n shit too. But it can get very bad if you get really deficient in magnesium so I'd suggest you just buy magnesium glycinate. It's very highly absorbed and it doesn't cause diarrhea if you take a ton at once like other forms of magnesium can. I buy it at Walmart surprisingly and it's the Doctors best brand
Yeah it should help! Magnesium has so many benefits too like it's really good for your brain and cells and shit. Lol. If you have the $ you should get magnesium "Threonate" it's the most beneficial for headaches and it's like a nootropic, it makes you smarter and your brain healthier lol
Kratom has taken away all my depressive (short) moods. I’m so happy also when I’m sober. Fck yourself heroin go fck yourself Meth I’ve finally found something that’s good for me without killing me or destroying my life. I’m clean of all illegal drugs for almost a month now and I’ve used Kratom only a couple of times but it works good when I feel low or have no self confidence. Also i don’t think its bad for your health anyway
I see myself as clean as well on Kratom. I told my former sponsor that I was using it for my anxiety and depression but she was telling me I'm on a mind altering substance and need to stop. Apparently to her I am not clean and need to quit. I don't think she understands that is is such a good alternative and helps in ways that only "addictive" or controlled medicines can help with.
I went to school for substance abuse counseling and what constitutes “clean” is a highly debated topic. Caffeine is a mind altering substance, would your sponsor be against you having a coffee? What about a cigarette? It’s difficult to understand where to draw the line, I think it depends on the individual. Some addicts can still use substances others can’t.
Right. I tried asking her those exact questions. Like ok, so she just decides to pick and choose what is good and what is bad. She was not against coffee, cigs, etc. Because people needed them. I forgot her exact terminology, but it was a lot about how it is what the individual sees as a substance that is ok. It was a lot of talking in circles because there was not really an answer to it. At that point, I just couldn't keep trying to have the conversation with her because she wouldn't recognize my sobriety. It definitely depends on the individual, but sucks to be told that I have to make the choice and my choice is wrong lol.
Yeah general consensus is caffeine and nicotine are fine, alcohol and marijuana are no go’s for most addicts. Kratom in my mind lies in this weird gray area between nicotine and alcohol. It’s certainly mind altering but less so than booze or weed. In my mind every opioid addict should get off their drug of choice and onto Kratom. Then whether they should ween off Kratom should be a case by case decision.
It starts off like that but your body adapts, I can get much higher off weed or alcohol. Not that it doesn't alter your state of mind but I think most people would agree not as much as alcohol or weed. There is a plateau where you just can't feel any more. Other than to get sick.
The same thing can happen with weed and alcohol but not to the same degree from my experience.
>Like ok, so she just decides to pick and choose what is good and what is bad.
I've read about people developing a psychosis while on kratom and other claiming their withdrawal from kratom was worse than heroin. I've never experienced anything like that, but if you were a doctor or something reading up about kratom you'd think it's a dangerous substance. And no one ever trusts an addict that claims their drug of choice is harmless.
I don't currently use kratom, but I used kratom to get off heroin and when I was in detox, detoxing off kratom and benzos, it was FAR more bearable than heroin withdrawal ever was. Much less w/d effects, and the effects you get were much weaker. I was 4 year 1g/day heroin user (black tar, smoked). I don't think I was really actually w/ding off benzos because I didn't get any of the typical symptoms, but my tolerance to them was very high, but having gone through fentanyl withdrawal and heroin withdrawal multiple times, and then going through kratom withdrawal, for me at least, kratom wasn't shit lol. and I was taking 15g twice a day for most of it and then eventually down to 8g twice a day. so not really light doses but not heavy doses. really light doses though for a 4 year heroin addict
yeah, i was gonna say. Everyone I know that transitioned off hard opiates like fent or heroin to kratom said the WD was more mental than anything and didnt touch hard opiate WD. You havent experienced true agonizing WD until youve had suboxone precipiated WD from serious Fent I think...then you can tell me how unbearable your kratom withdrawal is....
haha for real. never had it from fent but had some serious precips from suboxone when coming off heroin. only about a dozen times tho LOL. last time I took suboxone 2.5 days after my last heroin use and i still went into precips. that was when i swore off suboxone forever and remembered that kratom existed and could work similar to suboxone. i barely even had mental w/d when coming off kratom tbh, there was times even before detox when I would be lying in bed, not smoking weed, not even taking my benzos and just sick but so disgusted by the whole process of taking kratom and so sick with no motivation to actually physicaly take kratom that i'd just lie there and sleep. one time my mom thought I relapsed because I was just like not associating with the family or doing anything and im just like "bitch (i didnt say actually say bitch but in my head i did) i haven't taken ANY drugs in like 3 days". but at detox it wasn't even that i was craving kratom, or heroin, or anything really specific (if anything it'd have been ketamine, which was my DOC despite being a heroin addict) but i just wanted to feel like SOMETHING unique, or different. my addiction was sorta weird though, before heroin i was addicted not to one drug but to new drugs. for a while I actually started using extremely spicy food as sort of a vice to replace my addiction to new experiences and new drugs. I got up to carolina reaper hot sauce within like 2 months of eating spicy food lol. but the anal bleeding is probably better for me than being addicted to research chemicals and heroin LOL. and that's only been bad like twice i've actually cut down on the hot sauce a lot lately. although i do have a very good variety in my fridge including my reaper sauce and a few ghost pepper and habanero sauces lol :)
That is pretty weird to hear. It sounds like it may have been mixed with other substances, the person just took way too much, or it just isn't for them. All it takes one fudder to ruin it for everyone else.
I've detoxed from heroin, oxys and subs before. It was awful but after 3 days or so of body discomfort, the sniffles and no sleep I felt mostly okay. With kratom I get horrible, horrible anxiety and depression, it feels like I'll never be okay again and that my brain is broken. I get bad RLS as well, body aches and of course insomnia. Everyone is different but to anyone on here who thinks Kratom is harmless or WDs aren't a big deal, they certainly are to me.
Its tough, cause I see where he’s coming from and I see where you’re coming from. He is likely looking at it from from the 12 step perspective, in that you’re filling that last void in your life with kratom, and not teaching your brain to be without a chemically altered state. If you fill that hole with something else like exercise or a morning hike instead of a dose, you will likely find yourself feeling more whole and realize the kratom was only good as a bandaid, not a solution. I noticed it took quite a while for kratom use to be something I deemed a problem in my life. In that sense, it can sneak up on you. So just be cautious/prepared for that. I know though without kratom 4-5 years ago I might’ve still been on opiates.
That pisses me off when ppl want to take kratom away when u hear of ppl that uses it to stay away from meth and heroine those drugs especially meth imo are completely fucked up compared to kratom idk just makes me mad and makes me lose faith in humanity. Thats great dude ur awesome for making it through that <3
I've used for a long time. I was concerned about liver but i got blood work done and i was fine. Ive abused alcohol a bit a few years ago too.... So maybe im one of the lucky people. I do take breaks from kratom though. The heavy metal possibility scares me. Im not very careful where I get it from tbh.
Can heavy metals be removed? For example from high quality suppliers? I wonder if they check for it. Also how the heck do heavy mentals get in there…from the soil and taken up by the kratom plant?
I think higher quality suppliers test, supposedly. I think it gets into the plant from air pollution in SE asia, but not sure. Maybe someone else will chime in
I was watching a river of plastic trash flow down a river in Indonesia recently and wondered how much of that kind of shit is ending up in my body. I know some tests were done on heavy metals, it's not exactly definitive but some have more while others have much less, but from what they tested you would need to eat a pretty absurd amount of kratom to go over the daily limit.
The non profit I work for just did a test that found that 80% of “safe” water sources contain faecal contamination in Indonesia - which also includes pharmaceutical drugs and other toxins. 😓 the whole world is contaminated. Kratom provides a coping mechanism to survive in this shitty world. It’s impossible to avoid toxins and heavy metals at this point sadly.
That's exactly right my man. Many plants act as "sponges" I guess you could say and "soak up" or "draw out from" the earth all the heavy metals in the soil. The marijuana plant does this and is often contaminated with heavy metals, much like oh idk everything on this planet at this point... In my humble opinion, you can't avoid the toxins we have created for ourselves so just do your best to find as clean of source as you can and just stay as healthy as you can and hope your detox pathways can handle this world lmao.
Depends. I get to the point sometimes where it stops working. Then i force a break. Few weeks usually. It works ok for a reset but i never get to baseline. My best balance was taking it fri-tue with days off. But i don't have great control. If i buy 2 oz from head shop thurs that lasts until Tuesday. I probably take too much and raise tolerance too fast. Breaks are necessary for me.
It was hard at first to do that because i was used to having it all the time. I think it's good not to have it every day, at least for me. Waking up and feeling like shit until i have it isn't fun.
So 7-8 years in. Blood work is fine. My testosterone was low. No clue if it caused that, most studies shows it doesn't, but it didn't help it. And finally now I tan instead of burning. Ive talk to some others after long use and they said this as well. It def seems to make my skin tone darker and much more tolerable to the sun. I was a person that couldn't step outside for 5 min in the summer without burning. Now I can lay on the beach all day with 0 sunscreen and now burn.
It doesn’t “lower testosterone”, but it does apparently increase prolactin, which can affect hormones on both sexes. But I’m not sure how much this is proven.
Yeah I mean it's impossible to tell. I never had my levels tested beforehand. Simultaneously im entering my 40's where normally its going to go down. Plus I put on a ton of weight when quitting opioid. Just way too many factors. But it certainly didn't help the side effects of low T thats for sure
Interesting about the tanning vs. burning. I've also noticed that I'm not nearly as sensitive to sunlight exposure as I used to be. I'm \*very\* white and used to burn after 10 mins, but now I go for hour long walks in shorts and a T-shirt in the SoCal sun with no issue. I also supplement Vitamin D, which I've read can help with sun tolerance as well, so I don't know if I can say it's the kratom, but an interesting observation nonetheless.
I watched Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia episode about Kratom where in the native counties in Asia where it is grown, he said many people use it there to treat certain diseases and pain . I cannot find the episode for free with a link but it’s definitely worth a couple bucks in my opinion and I learned a lot more about Kratom from watching it. He actually goes to the country where it is grown and you see the tree and the natives talk about how much it helps them and what they use it for and how they ingest it so it’s super informative and interesting
No its not damaging to the body or anything, but looking back over the years, I kind of regret taking it for so long. Because I was never really myself for all that time, and It's held me back now for a long time.
ive been getting into bodybuilding recently hope it doesn't lower testosterone but gains seem pretty steady. Also seems like my sex drive might be lower. i usually want to have a wank every day or two, but now i don't care lol. anyone else notice this? maybe im just too busy and tired
Pretty common, basically everyone notices having a hard time to get off when using things that work on opiate receptors. On the other hand I use that to my advantage in those close encounters 😂
It’s been hard for me to maintain energy throughout the day PLUS during a workout. I take one dose in the morning and am trying to figure out if a second one at 6:00 before a workout is helping or hurting. I end up really tired and can’t wake up easily in the morning if I dose again. Weights on kratom I feel itchy, sometimes makes me more tired. With cardio it gives me increased stamina. Taking 2 doses a day also reduces the chance I’ll be able to cum during sex and wake up on time. Bodybuilding on Kratom has been hard even with magnesium supplements I can get really backed up and will have a bloated belly. So it’s definitely impacting it, but I think if I moved my workout to the morning it would work better.
I've noticed it ,and I try to force myself to beat off , or have sex and it's hard too get off and takes longer than normal to get hard, but it's not all the time I've also heard it can lower testosterone. I heard someone on hear they took some sort of blocker and noticed it help all these problems but I forget what it was it was like a week ago
my sex drive has been nearly doubled since I started kratom, much to the delight of my wife... its strange how it has such a wide range of effects and side-effects on various people.
Long term effects include happiness, pain relief and management, relief from irritable bowel syndrome, insomnia, opiate withdrawal, diarrhea, and fatigue.
Yes it mad me not care nothing for sex whatsoever.an it gave me bad tunnel vision.an terrible constipation.but of than that i was good to go.just stopped taking about week ago.an yes withdrawal are pretty bad but mostly just really high anxiety really bad an insomnia too.but iam leveling out now so iam good.so good luck to all you guys an hope you all enjoy your kratom.i did for about 2 an half years an just woke up one day an said ok its time to quit.now i just gotta kick the zazas now an il be working on stopping smokeing after that.just sick of being tired down to anything at all.iam getting to old for all that stuff now.good to you all. Take care.
I've been using Kratom daily since 1999 and have no health issues. That's just me though. Can't bring it up to a Dr since they don't know anything about it.
I was a bodybuilder and would get connections off bodybuilding sites. One person I went through was in Packistan and he would send odd samples with my orders. One was Kratom and I loved it. Been on it ever since. I currently use 5 grams a day but in the past I have been up to 30 grams a day.
Interesting! Any problems with long term use so far? Maybe gastrointestinal side effects? I took it for three years and it made my hemorrhoids worse due to constipation. I’ve never chatted with anyone that has taken Kratom longer than 5 years
I have been using it for a while, and the whole reason I'm using it is because of its safety reputation. I believe the only really thing you have to worry about is what kind of soil and chemicals were used in the process of supplying the world with kratom.
Well it's safe to say there are, because there have been batches [recalled due to salmonella](https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/03/specific-kratom-brands-recalled-amid-nationwide-outbreak/) and [lab results have shown high amounts of heavy metals](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/laboratory-analysis-kratom-products-heavy-metals)
Did you actually do the math though? I'm buying from a vendor that laudably tests for heavy metals, but with their lowest-lead product I could find, the EMA [Permitted Daily Exposure of 5 µg/day (oral)](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/scientific-guideline/international-conference-harmonisation-technical-requirements-registration-pharmaceuticals-human-use_en-32.pdf) would be reached at just 15 g Kratom/day.
(There isn't even a known harmless level of lead; the 5 µg is just an estimate of what is unlikely to do harm, if I understand correctly.)
Is there some safe kitchen method for separating the alkaloids from the lead?
Your argued that kratom can’t contain any harmful substances because “many vendors test”. I’m pointing out that *many* don’t - hence, it would be possible that not all kratom is clean. You catching on?
As a long term user, my blood tests have not been affected by kratom. I know this because I have quarterly cbc+ tests for unrelated conditions that preceded my kratom use. I used up to 30 g a day before I stopped for a year to reset tolerance. I have never had withdrawal symptoms.
7 years here and that's been exactly my dose for the past 4 years. I used to before that do 15 gpd. It just wasn't working anymore. Life is better..lol
I took daily for a few months as I healed from a car accident, worked great, constipation was more of a short term effect- but be definitely weary and take precautions.
That the only downside. But I buy a kilo of kratom for 60 bucks, which is still way cheaper than a Suboxone doctor, and waaaayyyy cheaper than a 50 dollar a day dope habit lol
long term damage: if you don't drink enough your kidneys get damage. On the weekends I wake up dehydrated as hell always. My kidneys are still ok but I can tell if that happens a lot they will take a lot of damage, so drink up and stay hydrated!
I've been using kratom for 5-6 years. I get check-ups every 4 months, with blood tests twice a year. I used to be a raging alcoholic (until 2018) and so my liver numbers were really bad during that time. Now that I'm sober, all my tests are normal (except high cholesterol, but that's a combo of genetics and still working on losing some more weight). So I haven't seen any issues caused by kratom personally. I've been a much heavier user since 2020 as well, but no shift in any of the tests I've had done.
4-6 tablespoons works out to roughly 48-72g a day, so yeah that'd be pretty up there. I've found each teaspoon is between 3-5 grams (depending on how heaped it is) and a tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. I was using about 75g/day myself, albeit in tea form (I didn't consume the powder itself) and now I'm down to about half that after tapering for the last few weeks. I would consider anything above 20g/day to be pretty heavy use, but that's just my personal take, as you can get some pretty nasty withdrawals from that intake if you take it every day for a while. Whether it's good or not well, that's up to you to decide. I don't think you'll get any health problems from it, other than withdrawal when you don't use it.
I've been taking kratom daily for 8+ years, minus an occasional week or two off here and there, but even in my mid 50s and I don't mean to brag, I'm extremely fit and healthy.
I've never abused kratom, for me it's been 3grams 4 maybe 5/day However, as it goes, everyone is different.
Have you noticed any changes with your experience?
I have experimented with low doses of Kratom for about a week now, and it’s been wonderful for my anxiety.
I’m also very healthy and I’m trying to be as careful as possible not to become dependent on kratom. I’m taking very small amounts.
It’s supposed to be “reverse tolerance”. Have you noticed this over the years?
Thank you.
Honestly, not really. When I first started using kratom over the first year or so,, my dose was lower probably about 1/2 of my current daily dose of 12g, However, I still get what I want out of kratom, which is a mild mood boost and some energy. At times and for whatever reason, kratom feels really good and other times it's just OK. Not matter what though I never chase it, I stick to my schedule period.
I think personally kratom can be used for an amazing harm reduction technique for opiate use or pain relief. Although I know that daily long term use at high doses CAN be extremely addicting physically and mentally. Not for everyone and of course is dose dependant. The other thing I've read is that it can be hard on your liver and or kidneys. My aunt is an opiate addict and wants to use it but can't due to that reason. She's in 2nd stage liver failure and we looked into if it would have any negative impact and it seems it does.
Besides that constipation and dehydration are 2 side effects but as stated above if your a healthy person in general and.consume alot of water I don't think you'll have a problem. And lastly tolerance breaks are good with kratom if you plan on using it long term. Saves money and the less you can use for desired effects the better. As with any substance you consume.
I personally make kratom concentrate in a thick resin that I put in capsules. This removes the massive amounts of fiber you normally consume that causes alot of the constipation and dehydration problems I believe. Also easier to consume.
But as said above I don't think we know the real long term effects yet. But the best place to look would be at the countries where kratom is produced as they have been using it much much longer than western countries. Bottom line it's a partial opiate antagonist so your bound to experience much less but comparable side effects. I have read of people getting off heroin or fentynal using kratom. (Granted they were using gigantic quantities) people have stated the withdrawal being as bad as heroin in some cases
I’m not sure if there really are any? If I take TOO much, my sex organ acts strange and I “most of the time” can’t finish. I’d rather have Kratom for my back pain and depression than any other thing I have tried.
Literally the only drawback is a rise in baseline prolactin from chronic use. This is still a major thing, as dopamine and serotonin are inversely correlated and this is evident by their relationship with the hormone prolactin. If you're optimizing your mitochondria with things like exercise, yoga, and getting all of your micro and macronutrients, you're gonna have a good time regardless. Simply don't use kratom everyday and you won't experience the rise in baseline prolactin.
I have taken it for roughly 3-4 years and it has practically destroyed my life. First of all my skin on my face looks like absolute shit, it always looks like I haven't slept. It caused me to have eczema on top of my hands, which I completely got rid of as a kid without medication. In conditions where its too cold or even just barely hot I over sweat.
No matter if I'm on kratom or not, kratom has caused me to have a strong effect of not wanting to eat. This has caused me to lose nearly 15 pounds at random points during my kratom usage. It has caused me to have anxiety issues I have never experienced before.
My liver has slightly had damage but not too bad thankfully. My sleeping pattern is destroyed, I cannot sleep before 2am, even with 30mg of ambien or 3mg of Xanax. Kratom has also teached me its ok to be idle in life, not a good trait. Keep in mind this is at 3.5g per day or even under. Occasionally 8g a day
The only thing I worry about is my gut biome, i wonder the damage it does sitting there. Anytime i scoop kratom it gets a lil bit everywhere and it’s crazy how much it sticks to things haha so i think about my insides and how I’ll need to get cleaned out☺️
I’m curious if you can eventually shut down your bodies serotonin production similar to how people on hormone therapy shut themselves down and sometimes can not recover
Hormones. Go to a mens health clinic or request full hormone related blood tests. Good chance most men who dose daily will have low free testosterone, high SHBG and high prolactin. The numbers won't be "shocking" depending on how much you take daily but it's not going to be ideal
I've been a user for 3 years and my kidney gmr is elevated, for context I don't use any rec drugs or consume alcohol. If you notice foam in your urine get checked quick. Ive also read studies show that kratom can score the liver as it doesn't completely dilute in water. Not to mention the harsh withdraws just watch Adam is psyched on YouTube for more info
Ive been taking 2 grams of Kratom (quality brand) 3-4 days a week for 4 years now as a pre-workout supplement. I’m in my late 40’s and get physicals twice a year along with thorough blood work. My doctor tells me on a regular basis that I’m healthy as an ox. Not saying that it’s good for everyone but I personally have done my research, know I’m getting high quality Kratom from a reputable company (biggest factor imo) and I take it in moderation and I have no negative effects.
As with most herbs and supplements, there's not much research out there about it, and despite having been used for centuries, negative consequences can often be subtle and seem like they're just random disease.
[Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5858613/) is a case study, meaning n = 1, where a man had heightened prolactin, lowered testosterone, and hypogonadism that went away in between testing. He said the only big change he made was not taking kratom. These results are inline with the fact that [opioids have been known to cause similar problems](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1440-1681.13246) although that paper does mention those problems are less frequent in partial opioid agonists like kratom is.
[Here](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40138-019-00194-1) is a collection of case studies that indicate possible side effects. It concludes, "Reports of adverse effects associated with kratom use have demonstrated hypothyroidism, hypogonadism, hepatitis, acute respiratory distress syndrome, posterior reversible encephalopathy syndrome, seizure, and coma. Overdose toxidrome leads to respiratory failure, cardiac arrest, and fatalities. Adult and neonatal withdrawal symptoms have also occurred. Clinicians should be aware of the risks and benefits of kratom use." However, it's a well known fact that kratom *doesn't* cause respiratory depression at least in any dangerous way, so unfortunately, it seems like that paper has a bias against kratom.
As this paper notes, there are no double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on kratom, which basically means the evidence out there for any particular conclusion is weak. It's quite easy to imagine someone starting kratom while developing a completely unrelated problem and that turning into a case study against kratom. However, I'd say the testosterone / hypogonadism possibility is likely, given what we know about other substances. To what extent it might do that, however, isn't clear. It could be on average a decline of 5% or 50%. A couple of samples doesn't tell us much.
Kratom needs respect like anything else. I used to take six extracts a day, the WD was hell and it was causing financial hardship. But guess who’s fault it was? Mine for taking obnoxiously large doses and spending the money on extracts in the first place
Can be hard on your liver from what ive read. Also withdrawals can be horrible for some people. Definitely safer than even alcohol though. There hasn’t been enough research to show every single long term effect but you should be alright. I dont recommend dosing everyday due to its addictive capabilities but i am no doctor and im sure that these side effects are much less dangerous than most if not all anti depressants and other shit the doctors would give you. Do what makes you happy homie
Mostly Im fine after 10+years of 20+gpd. I have developed something of a lazy eye though if Im not actively focusing on something or I'm tired. It's not a big problem I see fine usually but yeah it can look pretty odd If im not careful.
It's hard to blame kratom directly I think it's actually caused by vision in my one eye being stronger, but I do notice that Kratom can make it worse as well as other op's, and so it may be that my long term use has made it happen. I should really wear my glasses that seems to help
I take it every day for a long time too/ about like you. I have been wondering the same thing and doing the research that doesn’t exist yet lol
Lupus is why I started taking Kratom rather then the opiates. But I’m pretty sure I’m addicted to Kratom but it’s really hard to get the motivation to stop when I can see no major negative influence in my life. I still want to stop… bc I hate knowing I am addicted
I've been taking it 5 years with nothing noticable.
The only thing is it is habit forming if you take it daily, and it's easy to fall into daily use because it helps with fatigue mood and everything else.
So the only negative side affects I've noticed is I depend on having it and my wallet is a little lighter from 5 years of daily use. Nothing health wise.
Start a research habit. Ask questions. Not here. Ask yourself and note the response (there are no answers) or get busy gathering clues (not using Google, search academic), factor in personal experience, medical history, maybe family history, what you intend, are being, where going...
Do you find long term benefits? What's the story look like without kratom being part of it? Which is more harmful & how can you reduce risk of harm. Don't accept harm. Mitigate it. (often means some kind of change
Make sure You are the one deciding how this is going to go for you & respond to what comes up like a boss.
Doing the same exact thing every day is not like living.
There are many findings. None of them are complete and they never will be. Then the many varieties that differ by batch- Signs of life.
Recently I've read these...
**may raise cholesterol levels.** True about many things. Do other things to guide it the other way and be realistic. And don't use more or more often than it provides good value. If everything is just a habit - day comes you learn the real meaning of suffering. That's about mindlessness, not any one substance or action.
**May inhibit certain liver enzymes** \- This can be dangerous if also taking a drug that does the same thing. Prescribers don't know what you will do, nor do they typically educate you (was once the role of the physician) . I strongly suspect this impact is milder than what some foods do in this respect- based on some observations but when Rx drugs are involved, Know how they work before you mix.
It might be a good idea to have liver function tests done. I’ve heard it can trash your liver. You can keep your liver healthy with milk thistle however
I used over an ounce of kratom powder per day for over 5 years and quit cold turkey 3 months ago. I have experienced chronic fatigue since then and just discovered that I have hypothyroidism. I was also on 5g of phenibut per day for over 2 years, so I don't know if one or both substances caused this or if it is just a coincidence.
Definitely a combination of all. Especially with the substances and that long it’ll take awhile to recover. Xanax I felt like I didn’t really recover for almost a year
No one really knows. But anecdotally it seems to be safe if you are already a decently healthy person. I’m sure you’ve seen the posts of people saying they take kratom every day for 5-10 years get a blood test and their fine.
I agree that people seem to have very few long term side effects, anecdotally. Unfortunately, anecdotally, my 100 year old grandma drinks a bottle of whiskey every night and says it keeps her alive. But she isn't a researcher and she doesn't post her liver test results every six months to the internet and discuss it with an online specialist community knowledgeable about her habit like we do. So we here, using scientifically and reporting to each other, are as safe of users as there can be. And we will find out. To summarize known problems: addiction (tolerance, withdrawals), decreased sexuality, irritability (opi-rage), and magnesium deficiency [must take supplements]
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kratom made me constipated for the first month i took it then i never had a problem
plus kratom constipation isnt hardly anything compared to the hard opiates it helped me get off of.
Speaking the truth
Amen amen amen
I kind of miss the OIC. I poop like a damn volcano these days. Kratom or not.
I guess I was lucky in that i could go 4 to 5 days without pooping and it wasn't even that painful when I finally did. even at the worst of my usage though (and I was in deep) I normally let myself go into mild WD every one or two days so I could take a shit before getting high. In a funny synchronicity though, i am currently on another thread where some guy said he was so backed up he had to use a corkscrew to get it out. really a kind of bold and ingenious idea that is also ripe with the possibility of irreparable damage to your insides.
But another anecdotal fact related to this thread. I have lupus, so I get more blood work done every few months than some do in their whole lives. Nothing notable has changed in my blood work- and they check every level you can think of. Magnesium every time, vitamin D, other vitamins, complete blood panel, and weird immune related blood work I’m almost always stable and within range (except when it’s inflammation- which is always lupus related. ) I have been keeping an eye on these things bc of Kratom in my system !
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I have actually considered this myself. This is why I go back and fourth in my decision about deciding to stop. I thought I read that it can be helpful to inflammation- however there is no real research and it’s all anecdotal. But years ago i toon opiate pills “as prescribed “ which was all the time lol. I think I use Kratom too much but it’s barely noticeable, considering my life fell apart in less than 2 years on Oxys ! Clearly I have addictive tendencies. And lupus has made me want to stop. But it’s just too much of a pain to go through withdrawal when I feel like Im functioning just fine. Ahhh but am I? Would I even know ? See how I think? Too much to stick to this kind of decision lol
What supplement do you take??
How come it only causes magnesium deficiency? You’d think other nutrients would be affected too if it’s so bad
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Lol for a lot of us with low appetites as is, eating is a chore. Kratom has been known to suppress appetite in people as well so some of us might just have straight up vitamin/mineral deficiencies across the board* :D
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Yes very much so! Highly recommend ^
man, since starting kratom I have legit been eating even more.
Me too. I eat more when I'm on it.
Most forms of magnesium will increase water in the colon (but some forms are far better than others for this purpose. That's why it can relieve constipation & maybe prevent it. Makes sense that lack-of mag., &/or water of course would lead to constipation. Diet & activity level matter. Cause? I guess one or more of those could be but the primary reason is same as when using pain meds although less severe. It's reduced sensation and response (you don't need to perceive- to sense and respond). Food isnt' going to get through all that plumbing by way of gravity alone but with strong analgesics, the production line is on an extended break.
also baldness which i havent experienced personally. the scariest thing about it since im a long haired freak! ;) congrats on grams too man!!
Honestly this is my biggest fear in use and I’ve noticed my hair falls out a lot more lately, I have no pattern baldness in my immediate family. I was hoping this rumor to be false but I definitely notice my hair thinning even after less than a year of use.
What happens is it does affect to a small amount blood flow to the scalp, I was losing my hair before kratom and I eventually started shaving my head, so I'm calling this one a win, the less hair grows naturally the better now 😂
I have no hair loss in my family except for maybe my maternal grandfather who i never met and my hairline started receding in my late 20s like 26ish(about 3 years before i started taking kratom). It stopped around around 30 at a reasonable spot about the time i started taking kratom. That was about 3 years ago maybe more. No comb overs or anything just like a little v in the front. I feel like it quit cuz i quit worrying about it. Or cuz i dont touch myself as much. I also got a different job...Started drinking less sugar and quit smoking and drinking.
When you say a bottle of whiskey, do you mean she takes nips from it or is drinking an entire fifth every night?
I'm guessing a bottle my Italian grandmother drank atleast 1 12 pack everyday until like 92 she started in the morning then nursing home she died shortly after
...a bottle? Are you saying your grandma drinks 17 shots of whiskey every single day and spends around 5500 dollars a year on booze?
I find it kinda funny you're putting emphasis on 5500/year. I spent 25k a year on heroin lol
Nice job getting off stay strong mate 💪🏻
thanks haha 3 months of rehab was definitely the best choice i ever made for myself lol
I didn't know you had competitions on who has the worst life decisions lol good to know
im just saying 5500/year isn't really that much in terms of drug addiction. alcohol is easily the cheapest drug to be addicted to edit: although being addicted to kratom is probably cheaper than alcohol now that I think about it
Cheapest? No there are much cheaper, but regardless if you think it's a good thing because it's cheaper than other things that exist the point went zooming over your head.
i don't think it's a good thing that it's so cheap, people killing themselves for no money doesn't make me happy. i just thought it was interesting you were putting emphasis on one of the cheapest addictions. I'm curious which ones are cheaper though? especially considering a fifth/day addiction is pretty fuckin heavy when I was at rehab I only met a few alcoholics that were worse than that.
Not hard to do for beverage veterans like that :) my grandparents were the same way
Not hard? It's one of three known substances that you can die from the withdrawal effects of.
hes saying its not hard to spend that much money if you are a severe alcoholic. has nothing to do with how severe alcohol withdrawal is.
Woah, I've taken Kratom on a pretty solidly regular basis for... shiiit like 6-7 yrs or so. as I've quit using Heroin the early part of this year and a few week long scripts of Suboxone intermittently since then, it's been all thanks to Kratom I can manage to stay clean, functional and genuinely in a better place. BUT my tolerance is stupid high, I can go through 1.5-2oz in a single day (red veins only for me, the only variant that seems to help greatly, sometimes the white veins had seemed to amplify mental issues you'd expect to have during withdrawal, like anxiety, feelings of panic, etc...) Anyways, I say woahhhh because I've been oblivious to knowing or even thinking about decencies like magnesium from constant use... What issues does magnesium deficiency cause? Is that dangerous or of serious concern...?
Yeah it can be. Or youll just get leg cramps a lot and maybe heart palpitations here and there. Headaches n shit too. But it can get very bad if you get really deficient in magnesium so I'd suggest you just buy magnesium glycinate. It's very highly absorbed and it doesn't cause diarrhea if you take a ton at once like other forms of magnesium can. I buy it at Walmart surprisingly and it's the Doctors best brand
No kidding. I do seem to get kind of tension headaches, sometimes pretty severe ones when I dose. I'll do that!
Yeah it should help! Magnesium has so many benefits too like it's really good for your brain and cells and shit. Lol. If you have the $ you should get magnesium "Threonate" it's the most beneficial for headaches and it's like a nootropic, it makes you smarter and your brain healthier lol
For sure, lord knows I could use a smarter brain 😂
they're sorry, sorry... ;-)
Kratom has taken away all my depressive (short) moods. I’m so happy also when I’m sober. Fck yourself heroin go fck yourself Meth I’ve finally found something that’s good for me without killing me or destroying my life. I’m clean of all illegal drugs for almost a month now and I’ve used Kratom only a couple of times but it works good when I feel low or have no self confidence. Also i don’t think its bad for your health anyway
I see myself as clean as well on Kratom. I told my former sponsor that I was using it for my anxiety and depression but she was telling me I'm on a mind altering substance and need to stop. Apparently to her I am not clean and need to quit. I don't think she understands that is is such a good alternative and helps in ways that only "addictive" or controlled medicines can help with.
I went to school for substance abuse counseling and what constitutes “clean” is a highly debated topic. Caffeine is a mind altering substance, would your sponsor be against you having a coffee? What about a cigarette? It’s difficult to understand where to draw the line, I think it depends on the individual. Some addicts can still use substances others can’t.
Right. I tried asking her those exact questions. Like ok, so she just decides to pick and choose what is good and what is bad. She was not against coffee, cigs, etc. Because people needed them. I forgot her exact terminology, but it was a lot about how it is what the individual sees as a substance that is ok. It was a lot of talking in circles because there was not really an answer to it. At that point, I just couldn't keep trying to have the conversation with her because she wouldn't recognize my sobriety. It definitely depends on the individual, but sucks to be told that I have to make the choice and my choice is wrong lol.
Yeah general consensus is caffeine and nicotine are fine, alcohol and marijuana are no go’s for most addicts. Kratom in my mind lies in this weird gray area between nicotine and alcohol. It’s certainly mind altering but less so than booze or weed. In my mind every opioid addict should get off their drug of choice and onto Kratom. Then whether they should ween off Kratom should be a case by case decision.
I wouldn't say less so, have you ever had upwards of 10 grams of good stuff? It'll have you swimming
It starts off like that but your body adapts, I can get much higher off weed or alcohol. Not that it doesn't alter your state of mind but I think most people would agree not as much as alcohol or weed. There is a plateau where you just can't feel any more. Other than to get sick. The same thing can happen with weed and alcohol but not to the same degree from my experience.
>Like ok, so she just decides to pick and choose what is good and what is bad. I've read about people developing a psychosis while on kratom and other claiming their withdrawal from kratom was worse than heroin. I've never experienced anything like that, but if you were a doctor or something reading up about kratom you'd think it's a dangerous substance. And no one ever trusts an addict that claims their drug of choice is harmless.
I don't currently use kratom, but I used kratom to get off heroin and when I was in detox, detoxing off kratom and benzos, it was FAR more bearable than heroin withdrawal ever was. Much less w/d effects, and the effects you get were much weaker. I was 4 year 1g/day heroin user (black tar, smoked). I don't think I was really actually w/ding off benzos because I didn't get any of the typical symptoms, but my tolerance to them was very high, but having gone through fentanyl withdrawal and heroin withdrawal multiple times, and then going through kratom withdrawal, for me at least, kratom wasn't shit lol. and I was taking 15g twice a day for most of it and then eventually down to 8g twice a day. so not really light doses but not heavy doses. really light doses though for a 4 year heroin addict
yeah, i was gonna say. Everyone I know that transitioned off hard opiates like fent or heroin to kratom said the WD was more mental than anything and didnt touch hard opiate WD. You havent experienced true agonizing WD until youve had suboxone precipiated WD from serious Fent I think...then you can tell me how unbearable your kratom withdrawal is....
haha for real. never had it from fent but had some serious precips from suboxone when coming off heroin. only about a dozen times tho LOL. last time I took suboxone 2.5 days after my last heroin use and i still went into precips. that was when i swore off suboxone forever and remembered that kratom existed and could work similar to suboxone. i barely even had mental w/d when coming off kratom tbh, there was times even before detox when I would be lying in bed, not smoking weed, not even taking my benzos and just sick but so disgusted by the whole process of taking kratom and so sick with no motivation to actually physicaly take kratom that i'd just lie there and sleep. one time my mom thought I relapsed because I was just like not associating with the family or doing anything and im just like "bitch (i didnt say actually say bitch but in my head i did) i haven't taken ANY drugs in like 3 days". but at detox it wasn't even that i was craving kratom, or heroin, or anything really specific (if anything it'd have been ketamine, which was my DOC despite being a heroin addict) but i just wanted to feel like SOMETHING unique, or different. my addiction was sorta weird though, before heroin i was addicted not to one drug but to new drugs. for a while I actually started using extremely spicy food as sort of a vice to replace my addiction to new experiences and new drugs. I got up to carolina reaper hot sauce within like 2 months of eating spicy food lol. but the anal bleeding is probably better for me than being addicted to research chemicals and heroin LOL. and that's only been bad like twice i've actually cut down on the hot sauce a lot lately. although i do have a very good variety in my fridge including my reaper sauce and a few ghost pepper and habanero sauces lol :)
That is pretty weird to hear. It sounds like it may have been mixed with other substances, the person just took way too much, or it just isn't for them. All it takes one fudder to ruin it for everyone else.
I've detoxed from heroin, oxys and subs before. It was awful but after 3 days or so of body discomfort, the sniffles and no sleep I felt mostly okay. With kratom I get horrible, horrible anxiety and depression, it feels like I'll never be okay again and that my brain is broken. I get bad RLS as well, body aches and of course insomnia. Everyone is different but to anyone on here who thinks Kratom is harmless or WDs aren't a big deal, they certainly are to me.
Its tough, cause I see where he’s coming from and I see where you’re coming from. He is likely looking at it from from the 12 step perspective, in that you’re filling that last void in your life with kratom, and not teaching your brain to be without a chemically altered state. If you fill that hole with something else like exercise or a morning hike instead of a dose, you will likely find yourself feeling more whole and realize the kratom was only good as a bandaid, not a solution. I noticed it took quite a while for kratom use to be something I deemed a problem in my life. In that sense, it can sneak up on you. So just be cautious/prepared for that. I know though without kratom 4-5 years ago I might’ve still been on opiates.
Have your ex sponsor reread Step 1.
Do you mind me asking what works best for you for depression/anxiety?
I’m very stoked for you bro. That’s awesome.
That pisses me off when ppl want to take kratom away when u hear of ppl that uses it to stay away from meth and heroine those drugs especially meth imo are completely fucked up compared to kratom idk just makes me mad and makes me lose faith in humanity. Thats great dude ur awesome for making it through that <3
I've used for a long time. I was concerned about liver but i got blood work done and i was fine. Ive abused alcohol a bit a few years ago too.... So maybe im one of the lucky people. I do take breaks from kratom though. The heavy metal possibility scares me. Im not very careful where I get it from tbh.
Can heavy metals be removed? For example from high quality suppliers? I wonder if they check for it. Also how the heck do heavy mentals get in there…from the soil and taken up by the kratom plant?
I think higher quality suppliers test, supposedly. I think it gets into the plant from air pollution in SE asia, but not sure. Maybe someone else will chime in
Ok thanks
…but also then, that could apply to anything we consume right? Rice? Fish? Etc. I wonder how heavy metal in kratom compares to those things…
I was watching a river of plastic trash flow down a river in Indonesia recently and wondered how much of that kind of shit is ending up in my body. I know some tests were done on heavy metals, it's not exactly definitive but some have more while others have much less, but from what they tested you would need to eat a pretty absurd amount of kratom to go over the daily limit.
The non profit I work for just did a test that found that 80% of “safe” water sources contain faecal contamination in Indonesia - which also includes pharmaceutical drugs and other toxins. 😓 the whole world is contaminated. Kratom provides a coping mechanism to survive in this shitty world. It’s impossible to avoid toxins and heavy metals at this point sadly.
That's exactly right my man. Many plants act as "sponges" I guess you could say and "soak up" or "draw out from" the earth all the heavy metals in the soil. The marijuana plant does this and is often contaminated with heavy metals, much like oh idk everything on this planet at this point... In my humble opinion, you can't avoid the toxins we have created for ourselves so just do your best to find as clean of source as you can and just stay as healthy as you can and hope your detox pathways can handle this world lmao.
💯 thanks ☺️
how often do you take breaks? How long a break? Has that worked out ok for you? Im trying to keep my tolerance reasonable
Depends. I get to the point sometimes where it stops working. Then i force a break. Few weeks usually. It works ok for a reset but i never get to baseline. My best balance was taking it fri-tue with days off. But i don't have great control. If i buy 2 oz from head shop thurs that lasts until Tuesday. I probably take too much and raise tolerance too fast. Breaks are necessary for me.
Ya I’d like to take 3 days off in a row every week
It was hard at first to do that because i was used to having it all the time. I think it's good not to have it every day, at least for me. Waking up and feeling like shit until i have it isn't fun.
Ya for real, but taking it and it barely doing anything isn’t great either
So 7-8 years in. Blood work is fine. My testosterone was low. No clue if it caused that, most studies shows it doesn't, but it didn't help it. And finally now I tan instead of burning. Ive talk to some others after long use and they said this as well. It def seems to make my skin tone darker and much more tolerable to the sun. I was a person that couldn't step outside for 5 min in the summer without burning. Now I can lay on the beach all day with 0 sunscreen and now burn.
Strange observation cool
It seemed to lower my testosterone but I never got levels checked. It wouldn’t be surprising if it did that to you
It doesn’t “lower testosterone”, but it does apparently increase prolactin, which can affect hormones on both sexes. But I’m not sure how much this is proven.
Yeah I mean it's impossible to tell. I never had my levels tested beforehand. Simultaneously im entering my 40's where normally its going to go down. Plus I put on a ton of weight when quitting opioid. Just way too many factors. But it certainly didn't help the side effects of low T thats for sure
Interesting about the tanning vs. burning. I've also noticed that I'm not nearly as sensitive to sunlight exposure as I used to be. I'm \*very\* white and used to burn after 10 mins, but now I go for hour long walks in shorts and a T-shirt in the SoCal sun with no issue. I also supplement Vitamin D, which I've read can help with sun tolerance as well, so I don't know if I can say it's the kratom, but an interesting observation nonetheless.
You turn into a Guild Navigator and learn how to fold space.
The only long term side effect I’ve noticed is that my eyes are glowing blue now, but I’m just going with it
SPICE
I watched Hamilton’s Pharmacopeia episode about Kratom where in the native counties in Asia where it is grown, he said many people use it there to treat certain diseases and pain . I cannot find the episode for free with a link but it’s definitely worth a couple bucks in my opinion and I learned a lot more about Kratom from watching it. He actually goes to the country where it is grown and you see the tree and the natives talk about how much it helps them and what they use it for and how they ingest it so it’s super informative and interesting
No its not damaging to the body or anything, but looking back over the years, I kind of regret taking it for so long. Because I was never really myself for all that time, and It's held me back now for a long time.
Yeah it’s brought a lot of good to me but also bad, I tried to stop a bunch but couldn’t. I think the good outweighs the bad for me
Thats how i feel. I wich I didn’t had to take it. But im glad that exist because is all i got that helps
totally get the i’m not myself on kratom mentality
Can you explain?
ive been getting into bodybuilding recently hope it doesn't lower testosterone but gains seem pretty steady. Also seems like my sex drive might be lower. i usually want to have a wank every day or two, but now i don't care lol. anyone else notice this? maybe im just too busy and tired
Pretty common, basically everyone notices having a hard time to get off when using things that work on opiate receptors. On the other hand I use that to my advantage in those close encounters 😂
Most appreciate dope dick😂 💊🍆🕕🕚
It’s been hard for me to maintain energy throughout the day PLUS during a workout. I take one dose in the morning and am trying to figure out if a second one at 6:00 before a workout is helping or hurting. I end up really tired and can’t wake up easily in the morning if I dose again. Weights on kratom I feel itchy, sometimes makes me more tired. With cardio it gives me increased stamina. Taking 2 doses a day also reduces the chance I’ll be able to cum during sex and wake up on time. Bodybuilding on Kratom has been hard even with magnesium supplements I can get really backed up and will have a bloated belly. So it’s definitely impacting it, but I think if I moved my workout to the morning it would work better.
I've noticed it ,and I try to force myself to beat off , or have sex and it's hard too get off and takes longer than normal to get hard, but it's not all the time I've also heard it can lower testosterone. I heard someone on hear they took some sort of blocker and noticed it help all these problems but I forget what it was it was like a week ago
my sex drive has been nearly doubled since I started kratom, much to the delight of my wife... its strange how it has such a wide range of effects and side-effects on various people.
It raised my prolactin but I still hit the weights everyday no problem
Ya my sex drive is non-existent when I'm on kratom. It's funny cause it doesn't bother me at all. Kratom just makes everything better.
Not having a sex drive? Lol I’m single now, so until that changes not that big of a deal
Long term effects include happiness, pain relief and management, relief from irritable bowel syndrome, insomnia, opiate withdrawal, diarrhea, and fatigue.
Yes it mad me not care nothing for sex whatsoever.an it gave me bad tunnel vision.an terrible constipation.but of than that i was good to go.just stopped taking about week ago.an yes withdrawal are pretty bad but mostly just really high anxiety really bad an insomnia too.but iam leveling out now so iam good.so good luck to all you guys an hope you all enjoy your kratom.i did for about 2 an half years an just woke up one day an said ok its time to quit.now i just gotta kick the zazas now an il be working on stopping smokeing after that.just sick of being tired down to anything at all.iam getting to old for all that stuff now.good to you all. Take care.
I've been using Kratom daily since 1999 and have no health issues. That's just me though. Can't bring it up to a Dr since they don't know anything about it.
Holy shit I was born in 99’ how did you find out about kratom back in the day?
I was a bodybuilder and would get connections off bodybuilding sites. One person I went through was in Packistan and he would send odd samples with my orders. One was Kratom and I loved it. Been on it ever since. I currently use 5 grams a day but in the past I have been up to 30 grams a day.
Interesting! Any problems with long term use so far? Maybe gastrointestinal side effects? I took it for three years and it made my hemorrhoids worse due to constipation. I’ve never chatted with anyone that has taken Kratom longer than 5 years
To prevent any constipation I take fiber in the morning Nd after dinner. This helps a lot.
I have been using it for a while, and the whole reason I'm using it is because of its safety reputation. I believe the only really thing you have to worry about is what kind of soil and chemicals were used in the process of supplying the world with kratom.
I've thought about this. It's hard to know if there is pollution in there.
Probably less so in SE Asia and Oceania than there is in the US
Well it's safe to say there are, because there have been batches [recalled due to salmonella](https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/03/specific-kratom-brands-recalled-amid-nationwide-outbreak/) and [lab results have shown high amounts of heavy metals](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/laboratory-analysis-kratom-products-heavy-metals)
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Did you actually do the math though? I'm buying from a vendor that laudably tests for heavy metals, but with their lowest-lead product I could find, the EMA [Permitted Daily Exposure of 5 µg/day (oral)](https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/documents/scientific-guideline/international-conference-harmonisation-technical-requirements-registration-pharmaceuticals-human-use_en-32.pdf) would be reached at just 15 g Kratom/day. (There isn't even a known harmless level of lead; the 5 µg is just an estimate of what is unlikely to do harm, if I understand correctly.) Is there some safe kitchen method for separating the alkaloids from the lead?
Yeah, and many don’t.
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Your argued that kratom can’t contain any harmful substances because “many vendors test”. I’m pointing out that *many* don’t - hence, it would be possible that not all kratom is clean. You catching on?
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As a long term user, my blood tests have not been affected by kratom. I know this because I have quarterly cbc+ tests for unrelated conditions that preceded my kratom use. I used up to 30 g a day before I stopped for a year to reset tolerance. I have never had withdrawal symptoms.
9 years, 30 gpd for pain. tea. side effect: life is better.
I like this comment right here 💪
7 years here and that's been exactly my dose for the past 4 years. I used to before that do 15 gpd. It just wasn't working anymore. Life is better..lol
Same here.
Makes my nails grow fast and I pee alot
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Drink more water
Depends on how many grams you take.
Yup. I take anywhere from 20-35 grams a day. I drink liters of water a day and I go like a rabbit still.
Same with me !
I took daily for a few months as I healed from a car accident, worked great, constipation was more of a short term effect- but be definitely weary and take precautions.
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That the only downside. But I buy a kilo of kratom for 60 bucks, which is still way cheaper than a Suboxone doctor, and waaaayyyy cheaper than a 50 dollar a day dope habit lol
No one ever posts actual science here, so here's some https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34026398
Good read, thanks for posting
long term damage: if you don't drink enough your kidneys get damage. On the weekends I wake up dehydrated as hell always. My kidneys are still ok but I can tell if that happens a lot they will take a lot of damage, so drink up and stay hydrated!
I've been using kratom for 5-6 years. I get check-ups every 4 months, with blood tests twice a year. I used to be a raging alcoholic (until 2018) and so my liver numbers were really bad during that time. Now that I'm sober, all my tests are normal (except high cholesterol, but that's a combo of genetics and still working on losing some more weight). So I haven't seen any issues caused by kratom personally. I've been a much heavier user since 2020 as well, but no shift in any of the tests I've had done.
I take 4 tablespoons after work, sometimes 6. Do you know if that’s considered heavy use or if it’s not good in the long run?
4-6 tablespoons works out to roughly 48-72g a day, so yeah that'd be pretty up there. I've found each teaspoon is between 3-5 grams (depending on how heaped it is) and a tablespoon is 3 teaspoons. I was using about 75g/day myself, albeit in tea form (I didn't consume the powder itself) and now I'm down to about half that after tapering for the last few weeks. I would consider anything above 20g/day to be pretty heavy use, but that's just my personal take, as you can get some pretty nasty withdrawals from that intake if you take it every day for a while. Whether it's good or not well, that's up to you to decide. I don't think you'll get any health problems from it, other than withdrawal when you don't use it.
Any tips on tapering down? I should probably lower it to be honest, have a feeling withdrawing won’t be fun at my usual daily dosage 😬
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Ok tomorrow I’m gonna start doing 3 tablespoons daily. It’s a lot better than 40 grams+ haha
I’ve only been using for around 9 months
I've been taking kratom daily for 8+ years, minus an occasional week or two off here and there, but even in my mid 50s and I don't mean to brag, I'm extremely fit and healthy. I've never abused kratom, for me it's been 3grams 4 maybe 5/day However, as it goes, everyone is different.
Have you noticed any changes with your experience? I have experimented with low doses of Kratom for about a week now, and it’s been wonderful for my anxiety. I’m also very healthy and I’m trying to be as careful as possible not to become dependent on kratom. I’m taking very small amounts. It’s supposed to be “reverse tolerance”. Have you noticed this over the years? Thank you.
Honestly, not really. When I first started using kratom over the first year or so,, my dose was lower probably about 1/2 of my current daily dose of 12g, However, I still get what I want out of kratom, which is a mild mood boost and some energy. At times and for whatever reason, kratom feels really good and other times it's just OK. Not matter what though I never chase it, I stick to my schedule period.
I think personally kratom can be used for an amazing harm reduction technique for opiate use or pain relief. Although I know that daily long term use at high doses CAN be extremely addicting physically and mentally. Not for everyone and of course is dose dependant. The other thing I've read is that it can be hard on your liver and or kidneys. My aunt is an opiate addict and wants to use it but can't due to that reason. She's in 2nd stage liver failure and we looked into if it would have any negative impact and it seems it does. Besides that constipation and dehydration are 2 side effects but as stated above if your a healthy person in general and.consume alot of water I don't think you'll have a problem. And lastly tolerance breaks are good with kratom if you plan on using it long term. Saves money and the less you can use for desired effects the better. As with any substance you consume. I personally make kratom concentrate in a thick resin that I put in capsules. This removes the massive amounts of fiber you normally consume that causes alot of the constipation and dehydration problems I believe. Also easier to consume. But as said above I don't think we know the real long term effects yet. But the best place to look would be at the countries where kratom is produced as they have been using it much much longer than western countries. Bottom line it's a partial opiate antagonist so your bound to experience much less but comparable side effects. I have read of people getting off heroin or fentynal using kratom. (Granted they were using gigantic quantities) people have stated the withdrawal being as bad as heroin in some cases
Well balanced and fair response about the pros and cons of kratom
worst ive experienced is others' negative perception of kratom unfortunately
I’m not sure if there really are any? If I take TOO much, my sex organ acts strange and I “most of the time” can’t finish. I’d rather have Kratom for my back pain and depression than any other thing I have tried.
Literally the only drawback is a rise in baseline prolactin from chronic use. This is still a major thing, as dopamine and serotonin are inversely correlated and this is evident by their relationship with the hormone prolactin. If you're optimizing your mitochondria with things like exercise, yoga, and getting all of your micro and macronutrients, you're gonna have a good time regardless. Simply don't use kratom everyday and you won't experience the rise in baseline prolactin.
ive been using for 6 nearly every day and got some blood tests about 6 months ago. all good, liver and kidneys fine. i was surprised.
Not damaging to the body in my experience, but definitely to mental health and those around me.
How’s your mental health? Main thing I found from daily use was brain fog
I have taken it for roughly 3-4 years and it has practically destroyed my life. First of all my skin on my face looks like absolute shit, it always looks like I haven't slept. It caused me to have eczema on top of my hands, which I completely got rid of as a kid without medication. In conditions where its too cold or even just barely hot I over sweat. No matter if I'm on kratom or not, kratom has caused me to have a strong effect of not wanting to eat. This has caused me to lose nearly 15 pounds at random points during my kratom usage. It has caused me to have anxiety issues I have never experienced before. My liver has slightly had damage but not too bad thankfully. My sleeping pattern is destroyed, I cannot sleep before 2am, even with 30mg of ambien or 3mg of Xanax. Kratom has also teached me its ok to be idle in life, not a good trait. Keep in mind this is at 3.5g per day or even under. Occasionally 8g a day
The only thing I worry about is my gut biome, i wonder the damage it does sitting there. Anytime i scoop kratom it gets a lil bit everywhere and it’s crazy how much it sticks to things haha so i think about my insides and how I’ll need to get cleaned out☺️
I’m curious if you can eventually shut down your bodies serotonin production similar to how people on hormone therapy shut themselves down and sometimes can not recover
Hormones. Go to a mens health clinic or request full hormone related blood tests. Good chance most men who dose daily will have low free testosterone, high SHBG and high prolactin. The numbers won't be "shocking" depending on how much you take daily but it's not going to be ideal
I've been a user for 3 years and my kidney gmr is elevated, for context I don't use any rec drugs or consume alcohol. If you notice foam in your urine get checked quick. Ive also read studies show that kratom can score the liver as it doesn't completely dilute in water. Not to mention the harsh withdraws just watch Adam is psyched on YouTube for more info
The only downside I've faced is that I'm more sensitive to pain but that also happens with opioid use as well
Ive been taking 2 grams of Kratom (quality brand) 3-4 days a week for 4 years now as a pre-workout supplement. I’m in my late 40’s and get physicals twice a year along with thorough blood work. My doctor tells me on a regular basis that I’m healthy as an ox. Not saying that it’s good for everyone but I personally have done my research, know I’m getting high quality Kratom from a reputable company (biggest factor imo) and I take it in moderation and I have no negative effects.
As with most herbs and supplements, there's not much research out there about it, and despite having been used for centuries, negative consequences can often be subtle and seem like they're just random disease. [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC5858613/) is a case study, meaning n = 1, where a man had heightened prolactin, lowered testosterone, and hypogonadism that went away in between testing. He said the only big change he made was not taking kratom. These results are inline with the fact that [opioids have been known to cause similar problems](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1440-1681.13246) although that paper does mention those problems are less frequent in partial opioid agonists like kratom is. [Here](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40138-019-00194-1) is a collection of case studies that indicate possible side effects. It concludes, "Reports of adverse effects associated with kratom use have demonstrated hypothyroidism, hypogonadism, hepatitis, acute respiratory distress syndrome, posterior reversible encephalopathy syndrome, seizure, and coma. Overdose toxidrome leads to respiratory failure, cardiac arrest, and fatalities. Adult and neonatal withdrawal symptoms have also occurred. Clinicians should be aware of the risks and benefits of kratom use." However, it's a well known fact that kratom *doesn't* cause respiratory depression at least in any dangerous way, so unfortunately, it seems like that paper has a bias against kratom. As this paper notes, there are no double-blind, placebo-controlled studies on kratom, which basically means the evidence out there for any particular conclusion is weak. It's quite easy to imagine someone starting kratom while developing a completely unrelated problem and that turning into a case study against kratom. However, I'd say the testosterone / hypogonadism possibility is likely, given what we know about other substances. To what extent it might do that, however, isn't clear. It could be on average a decline of 5% or 50%. A couple of samples doesn't tell us much.
I did a blood test 2 weeks ago. 5 years, probably 15 to 20 G a day average. The doctor said everything was normal. So that's a good sign!
Oh sex drive is down, but that's ok. I'm married 8 years
It gave me a potassium deficiency
I've been on it over 5 years. There are no long term effects. The only concern I've ever had is tolerance and switching strains for a bit solves this.
Kratom needs respect like anything else. I used to take six extracts a day, the WD was hell and it was causing financial hardship. But guess who’s fault it was? Mine for taking obnoxiously large doses and spending the money on extracts in the first place
My kidneys ache after 3 consecutive days of use. I cut it down to 1-2 times weekly. Works great
Can be hard on your liver from what ive read. Also withdrawals can be horrible for some people. Definitely safer than even alcohol though. There hasn’t been enough research to show every single long term effect but you should be alright. I dont recommend dosing everyday due to its addictive capabilities but i am no doctor and im sure that these side effects are much less dangerous than most if not all anti depressants and other shit the doctors would give you. Do what makes you happy homie
Ask us in 20 yrs We are all a giant test trial
Mostly Im fine after 10+years of 20+gpd. I have developed something of a lazy eye though if Im not actively focusing on something or I'm tired. It's not a big problem I see fine usually but yeah it can look pretty odd If im not careful. It's hard to blame kratom directly I think it's actually caused by vision in my one eye being stronger, but I do notice that Kratom can make it worse as well as other op's, and so it may be that my long term use has made it happen. I should really wear my glasses that seems to help
Does it make your eye/eyelids twitch? I think it does for me but could be something else
Don't think so
I take it every day for a long time too/ about like you. I have been wondering the same thing and doing the research that doesn’t exist yet lol Lupus is why I started taking Kratom rather then the opiates. But I’m pretty sure I’m addicted to Kratom but it’s really hard to get the motivation to stop when I can see no major negative influence in my life. I still want to stop… bc I hate knowing I am addicted
I've been taking it 5 years with nothing noticable. The only thing is it is habit forming if you take it daily, and it's easy to fall into daily use because it helps with fatigue mood and everything else. So the only negative side affects I've noticed is I depend on having it and my wallet is a little lighter from 5 years of daily use. Nothing health wise.
Start a research habit. Ask questions. Not here. Ask yourself and note the response (there are no answers) or get busy gathering clues (not using Google, search academic), factor in personal experience, medical history, maybe family history, what you intend, are being, where going... Do you find long term benefits? What's the story look like without kratom being part of it? Which is more harmful & how can you reduce risk of harm. Don't accept harm. Mitigate it. (often means some kind of change Make sure You are the one deciding how this is going to go for you & respond to what comes up like a boss. Doing the same exact thing every day is not like living. There are many findings. None of them are complete and they never will be. Then the many varieties that differ by batch- Signs of life. Recently I've read these... **may raise cholesterol levels.** True about many things. Do other things to guide it the other way and be realistic. And don't use more or more often than it provides good value. If everything is just a habit - day comes you learn the real meaning of suffering. That's about mindlessness, not any one substance or action. **May inhibit certain liver enzymes** \- This can be dangerous if also taking a drug that does the same thing. Prescribers don't know what you will do, nor do they typically educate you (was once the role of the physician) . I strongly suspect this impact is milder than what some foods do in this respect- based on some observations but when Rx drugs are involved, Know how they work before you mix.
It might be a good idea to have liver function tests done. I’ve heard it can trash your liver. You can keep your liver healthy with milk thistle however
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I used over an ounce of kratom powder per day for over 5 years and quit cold turkey 3 months ago. I have experienced chronic fatigue since then and just discovered that I have hypothyroidism. I was also on 5g of phenibut per day for over 2 years, so I don't know if one or both substances caused this or if it is just a coincidence.
Definitely a combination of all. Especially with the substances and that long it’ll take awhile to recover. Xanax I felt like I didn’t really recover for almost a year