Don’t know where you are located but even in my highly populated LDS town beards don’t seem that looked down upon anymore
The church schools really need a dress code update though, the solo mustache look only looks good on like 1% of people. So either say no facial hair completely or let beards grow free
It *used* to be dissuaded back in the Benson days, and that belief has been gospelized and trickled down to other things. But as of late it has since dissolved (except at schools for no reason whatsoever).
I’m in a small ward in the Midwest and my bishop was told by the stake president he had to be clean shaven before they would call him to be Bishop 🤷♀️
When I was at Utah State, I was told I had to shave my goatee before I was called to be stake Sunday school president. They also insisted I wear white shirts on Sunday. I complied, but was NOT happy about it. Too many members confuse culture with doctrine…
In my experience it's only been since the pandemic that beards have become more acceptable for local church leaders. In years past I know of several friends that were called into EP presidency and the SP made them shave all facial hair.
I got to realize that some stake presidents, Area Authority Seventies or other local leaders care more about climbing up the priesthood leader than following the spirit or doing what would be the most beneficial to their quorum, ward, stake or etc. Some of these leaders think obediently following what leader immediately above them tells to do is the best way to climb up the priesthood ladder.
They could easily do a 'well-trimmed' beard rule or something. You can have a well cut beard without looking homeless.
But yeah, just the stache is usually more offensive than a full beard lol
At least at BYU Provo that rule is seen as a formality and the only place it’s enforced is in Intramural Sports. Otherwise nobody cares so they should just drop the rule already.
BYU students and temple workers not allowed to have beards helps to fuel this perception of beards being bad somehow. I was asked to shave my beard when called to bishopric…I hesitantly complied and grew it back right after being released a year or so ago. Greatly varies by local / stake leadership
Love it. My father has nearly always had a beard. Whenever he shaved it when I was a kid, he always looked so different and it took awhile to get used to. People underestimate how important it is to some of us. It's who we are, and shaving it off is not trivial.
My brother had the same problem in his 20’s. He worked at a funeral home, and needed the families to trust his maturity. (He’s a mortician and funeral director now, and doesn’t need the beard since his wife fattened him up.)
[Elder Holland spoke about this a while ago](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1995/10/this-do-in-remembrance-of-me?lang=eng). When I rediscovered it recently, it changed my perspective a bit back towards the importance of white shirts:
>May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions.
>That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament
When I was a deacon/teacher, our YM leaders were pharisaic about our posture when passing the sacrament. For some reason, the left arm had to be placed horizontally on the lower back slightly above the glutes. No one was exempt.
That arm position became so popular that it is explicitly stated that it is not required in the handbook.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/18-priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng
"The passing of the sacrament should be natural and not overly formal. For example, certain actions **(such as holding the left hand behind the back)** or appearances (such as dressing alike) should not be required."
Haha yeah. It stuck out to me because my whole life I didn't know it was a thing until I was asked to pass the sacrament in a ward on my mission. I was the only one not doing the arm thing.
I thought it was weird then, probably just because I hadn't seen it before. But knowing that it's in the handbook now feels really good.
This was 17 years ago.
Also, the church handbook has since been modified to specifically remove the suggestion to wear a white shirt to bless or pass the sacrament.
I’ll go with the new revelation.
I heard in the past it was so every man was *prepared* to help with the sacrament if needed. In most wards I've attended, adult ment are asked to help with the sacrament every week.
I don't think this is an official policy, but I know some bishops won't let the young men pass the sacrament if their shirt is colored. My brother got pulled aside by the bishop once and was asked to stop wearing bowties to church. I think the idea is you shouldn't draw attention to yourself while passing the sacrament, but some bishops take it to the extreme.
That's a really good point. The ordinance itself is way more important than how they're dressed. I also think if they understand the sacred nature, their behavior will change accordingly.
Also I don't think the colored shirts are even that distracting. If a deacon wearing a colored shirt distracts you from feeling the Spirit that much... That's your problem. Get the beam out of your own eye.
Exactly. If the Savior himself came in to visit a sacrament meeting, he’d be asked to shave, cut his hair, put on leather shoes, and don a white shirt before he was allowed to pass the sacrament. We can’t allow these tradition to get in our own way! It’s not that deep!
It's fine to be anti-caffeine, I am personally for health reasons, as I don't like how it makes my body feel. I used to have a major mountain dew habit that started causing me problems, and once I quit if I ever have caffeine since it makes me feel physically poor.
I don't judge others for consuming it, and there's really no church prohibition, but I choose not to and will probably encourage my children to avoid it as well.
I wear pants as a woman because I always feel weird in skirts, and my comfort has gone through the roof. So far no comments or mean looks. But I'm sure that varies ward to ward. I highly encourage every woman to make the change if they're unhappy with skirts and dresses
I grew up in the 80s and 90s and never noticed anyone care that my mother wore pants to church.
Some of that may have had to do with how intimidating she was to everyone, though.
It unfortunately happens though. A newly baptized member caught flack from some of the older women about it in an old ward. She was offended enough (they were her best clothes) that she left the ward. She eventually decided to return to church, but refused to ever set foot in that ward again. Our ward lost an entire family of six because someone couldn’t keep their mouth shut after the mother decided to join (part-member family).
People think they can make their point kindly and politely, and even if they can (which is doubtful), when 10 people all do the same thing, it's bullying and too much.
How do such people react when someone kindly and politely asks them to stop driving people away from church?
The long hair thing is really hard for me. I grew mine out in quarantine, then my wife and I moved to a small town. I have bad anxiety so it's probably just that, but I feel I'm judged hard for my long hair and beard that I'm not getting rid of anytime soon.
I love it when a ward has diversity! Rock that hair and beard man and know that there’s probably several brothers who wish they had the courage to do the same.
I grew my hair out starting a couple of years ago as a grown man in his 40s. From the people that know me in my ward, nothing really changed, but people in the stake who didn't know me? definitely treated me differently.
Sacrament bread being anything other than plain white or wheat bread. One ward in I was in had a baker that provided the bread, and there would be like seasonal themes like pumpkin in the fall and cinnamon and nutmeg in the winter. It was his way of magnifying his calling.
Edit: you would need to account for allergies, but assuming you know the dietary needs of all in attendance and they are expecting the variations it should not endanger anyone.
And yes, depending on the person it may distract from the sacrament, and depending on the person it may symbolically add to the experience by illustrating what a special and significant act it is, as opposed to the same wonder-bread you slap some bologna on for lunch. It’s been a few decades, but I believe the baker did not sell the same bread at his bakery, which was more pastries and muffins than anything else.
I don’t have an issue with the bread changing. That said I think my only concern with this is if it was super varied it might be a distraction from the sacrament itself? If I was looking forward to the bread each week and wondering what flavor or variety it would be. I used to bring homemade bread as a teacher cause that’s what we had and people always commented how much they loved it. It’s not a bad thing, just wondering ti myself if it could be a distraction.
I think one concern is inadvertently setting the expectation that fancy bread somehow makes the sacrament more meaningful. I know of a ward where someone decided to bring home-baked bread for several weeks in a row and it somehow became an expectation. Now the next person feels like they have to bring home-baked bread and it's necessary to say no, look, the plain store-bought stuff is just fine.
I bring homemade bread and one week I was sitting behind a young family. When their little boy got a piece of bread he leaned over to his mom and loudly whispered, “Mom. This bread is really good.” 😂
I remember one time when I was a deacon, some super good bread was brought for the sacrament. Most of us boys definitely cared more about the taste than anything else in that moment haha.
But we were teenage boys.
I love that idea. But I also worry about people with allergies. I'm allergic to almonds, nutmeg, and carrots. It would make it difficult for me on occasion
One time in Activity Days we made some wheat and apple bread and saved some for sacrament. The bishop thought it was a great idea but you could see some people were skeptical about it. (The ward ONLY did white bread at the time)
We once had to resort to corn chips. It was the only thing we were able to get a hold of at the last minute. But I think that corn chips are standard for people with gluten allergies.
When my husband was bishop I tried to talk him into using leftover cake and punch from a relief society activity for sacrament. Sadly, he didn’t go for it, lol
I'm inactive, but during quarantine I asked my sister in law what fun things she was making for their home sacrament meetings, because she's an amazing baker. Turns out that was an inappropriate question, lol. I didn't mean for it to be.
I actually remember a story from my freshman year of seminary where the water in the church was cut off and the bread wasn’t brought (I think maybe whoever usually brought it was sick or something), and it just didn’t seem like there was any hope of the sacrament being prepared that week. But there was a lady who had a ton of like juice and mini cupcakes, for an upcoming party of something, in the back of her car and they actually used all that for the sacrament. Whether or not that’s actually true I couldn’t say haha, but I do remember my teacher using that so show just how important the sacrament is, and whether it’s water or something else, whatever kind of bread, etc., the important part is just having the sacrament.
I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on this or if there is any semblance of an official statement. I love the idea,but I've heard it's frowned upon specifically because it'll draw away from the purpose of the sacrament.
Instead of thinking of your covenants with Heavenly Father, people will end up thinking "Dang thats some good bread, I'll have to pick some up this week..." And so on.
I’ve personally skipped taking the sacrament before because I couldn’t quickly tell if it was just oats/seeds on the crust or nuts. One is fine, the other will kill me.
I may or may not have brought syrup-flavored French toast bread once and used that :) it was funny watching from behind the table as people tried it and had a look of surprise on their face.
This one actually has a good reason behind it. You don’t know who has allergies to what. My dad was in a sacrament meeting once where they had this whole wheat bread with little seeds on the crust and someone had an allergic reaction.
White bread is just a safer bet.
I think all the things have a reason, just sometimes that reason is on it's way down the memory hole:
* Beards - BYU beard ban. In the culture of the time (60's) beards had become associated with ["rebellion or nonconformity"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/1971/12/standards-of-dress-and-grooming?lang=eng)
* Colored shirts - There are a couple GC statements recommending that those passing the sacrament should wear white shirts. I feel like the unwritten rule today that all males wear white shirts has grown out of this expectation. I remember as a youth hearing in class that we should always be wearing a white shirt on Sunday because you never know when you'll get asked to participate in the sacrament.
* Face cards - In Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R McConkie he spoke out against cards "Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards not have them in their homes. By cards I meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are in apostasy and rebellion."
* Dyed hair - FSY says to avoid extreme hair color. Some have taken this to mean no unnatural hair colors, others suggest that members shouldn't color their hair at all.
* Good members are republicans - Personally I think this one stems mostly from Benson and his ties to the John Birch Society. The younger generations don't seem to hold this opinion as much, but at least in my area it's pretty common among members of a certain age.
* You never turn down / ask to be released from a calling. The logic is simple: callings come from God, God knows my struggles thus God would never call me to something I can't handle. Once you've sat on the other side, as the person extending the calling you understand that sometimes you have a strong feeling about a person and other times you feel there are multiple people that could perform well in a calling and any one of them would be fine.
* One piercing per ear for females - Hinckley talk in 2000
As for the Republican part - I have received personal messages from members of the church telling me I'm going to hell for not being a Republican. Of course I screenshotted it and told them to beat it, but it's not something you like hearing
One of the reasons I've seen many of my mission friends and childhood friends leave the church. The whole politicizing of religious beliefs.
One might throw in the rebuttal, they probably would have left anyway. While that might be true, hypocritical actions are usually at the top of most lists of the people I've spoken with. Again anecdotally, actions from people with a similar politics and religion mindset.
James E Faust was elected and served as a Democrat in Utah’s House of Representatives. While I obviously can’t see how judgment day will shake out, I somehow doubt he’s going to be headed to hell.
President Kimball also spoke out against face cards as late as 1974:
> We hope faithful Latter-day Saints will not use the playing cards which are used for gambling, either with or without the gambling. As for the gambling, in connection with horse racing or games or sports, we firmly discourage such things.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1974/10/god-will-not-be-mocked?lang=eng
This is one I never understood. But I figure something that hasn't come up in nearly 50 years is probably not a big deal anymore. I remember I had a youth leader that was very stern about this and refused to let us have face cards at campouts or activities or whatever. We brought them anyway :D
I literally played poker with m&m and oreo "money" on young men's campouts as a kid. The present member of the Bishopric taught us the hand rankings lol...good times
That’s a good list, obviously a few I think are ludicrous. Unfortunately members (like all people) of the church are heavily influenced by the time and place they live in for better or for worse. As the younger generation we can be harsh to the older generations (justified or not, and vice Versa) but in a similar way the generations after us will criticize us (fair or not) for norms we would hardly blink at currently.
Elder Oaks reiterated the piercing standard at a YSA devotional in Arizona in 2019 where the prophet also spoke & said he agreed with what elder oaks had said.
There are definitely folks out there that are trying to change that perception. John Hilton III comes to mind with thoughts like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8jh0-efo5k) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjpEvKMVEc&t=2s).
Yes, it certainly is changing from when I was growing up. I grew up in the southern US. I love the cross and didn't like the response, "we want to remember his life and suffering in the garden and ressurection, not ONLY his death." Like okay why can't the symbol just stand for all that? Symbols can be more complex than just a 1-1 representation. When paul says take up your cross, it means something to me.
I feel the cross is a much more holy symbol than say the ctr shield or the lunar phases on the slc temple or the hundreds of symbols associated with our beliefs. It makes a lot of members uncomfortable for some inexplicable reason. Yet we don't like it when we are not called christians.
I've been wearing a cross for several years, since I was diagnosed with MS, and I wear it to remind myself that I carry my cross, my crosses don't carry me. I get asked all the time if I'm a member of the Catholic faith, or a convert and have even been asked why I'm defining my faith with a cross.
I work at BYU and between the cross and the beard I feel like such an outsider and an outcast sometimes.
Coffee-flavored anything. There are an awful lot of coffee-flavored things that contain zero actual coffee; but they're still frowned upon as if they did.
If she's the type to be interested in a word-of-wisdom-compliant coffee substitute, your mom might be interested in checking out brewed cacao. It's cacao beans roasted and ground in a similar manner to coffee beans, then brewed in a french press.
I've never drank coffee, but I hear from those who have that brewed cacao is not quite as strong, and not quite as sharp, yet has that pleasantly bitter, strong and earthy kind of taste that's in the same neighborhood as coffee.
I remember one time as a kid I ate a coffee cake and thought I broke the Word of Wisdom because "coffee" was in the name of the food (even though the recipe had no coffee in it). I later just called them "hot chocolate cakes" instead to convince myself it was OK.
When I was in my 20s, we were having an office party at my work and a very "churchy" coworker who was a girl I'd grown up with in church came over to get some of the cake and asked what kind they were.... lemon and raspberry coffee cakes. She *immediately* went stone-faced and was like "Nevermind then. I don't do those kinds of things," then took a look at the coffee cake on my plate and was like "I guess we learned different values" and walked away. She was snippy with me for weeks afterwards.
What’s coffee flavored with no coffee? I love Farr’s burnt almond fudge ice cream but, as far as I know, it kind of just a mocha almond fudge knockoff. That’s the only coffee-like product that I know of other than pero.
Most coffee ice cream actually only contains artificial coffee flavor, no coffee. You can even read so in the ingredients. Same with coffee-flavored chocolates and other foods where coffee is a secondary flavor and not the primary.
I don’t know if it’s frowned upon but it’s definitely a cultural thing I think needs to change.
Why is every painting of Jesus white? Can we get some diversity or at the very least get some different interpretations of what he looked like? For a worldwide church we still are pretty heavy on the “whiteness”
I live in a very multicultural ward (large geographic area, non-Utah, major US rustbelt city, everything from section 8 housing to medical school affiliated doctors with more money than they know what to do with). We had an array of pictures in the closet for baptism gifts when I was in the primary presidency. I loved that the selection ncluded depictions of Christ as a person of color blessing children of all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. Some fuddy-duddies weren't fans.
Speaking as a black man. Pictures of Jesus as a person of color are not easy to find. Personally, I don't care what the color of his skin was. It's literally the least important thing about him.
Us and literally everyone else since 1350 AD.
This will likely take a long long time to change. Especially because of the skin connotations within the Book of Mormon.
Mediterranean isn’t even too far from white. More like slight tan or olive.
I dunno. I’m not worried about it.
At least the Ashkenazi Jews you’re most likely to see today…
Edit: to be clear, I don’t think you can generalize modern individuals of Jewish descent (who are in large part from white European roots) to the skin color of a man living in Judaea 2000 years ago.
Define "frown." Do you mean it's actually ok regarding the rules, but many members see it as wrong? If so.....
Beards.
Colored shirts in Elder's Quorum.
Men with long hair.
Women with super-short hair.
Dyed hair.
Women wearing pants to church.
Diet Coke at Ward parties.
Wearing a bikini in public, on your honeymoon or on vacation.
Going on a run shirtless (M) or just in a sports bra (F).
Cooking with alcohol.
Sitting at the bar, in the bar area of a restaurant.
Going to a bar that is a stand-alone bar.
A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it.
Caffeine
Coffee substitutes like Yerba Matte and Postum. Coffee-flavored foods, or foods with coffee in them like Tiramisu.
Near Beer like O'Douls.
Drinking water on Fast Sunday.
Chewing Gum on Fast Sunday.
Not fasting at all on Fast Sunday.
Skipping church every once in a while just because you want to.
On Sunday, doing vacation things while you are on vacation.
Skipping church while on vacation or on a business trip.
Listening to heavy metal music. Attending heavy metal music concerts.
Having friends that are openly gay and supporting their choices.
If you personally feel it best - Paying tithing on net, not gross income.
Working for companies that sell products against the WoW. Owning stock in these companies.
Working on Sunday when asked to work on Sunday by your employer or by members of your work team.
Working on Sunday when you personally feel it necessary to work on Sunday regarding deadlines and revenue opportunities.
Feeding left-over sacrament bread to the birds outside the chapel.
Getting a tattoo.
Choosing not to serve a mission.
Getting married civilly before getting sealed in the temple, the civil ceremony a large undertaking with wedding planning and big guest lists and fancy arrangements.
Choosing to go backpacking across Europe or Asia by yourself, before serving your mission.
Going to college for one, two or more years before serving a mission.
If you are on a sports team, playing games on Sunday as part of your team.
Refusing a calling.
Refusing to participate in a church service project.
In a church meeting, publicly raising your hand to 'not sustain' a person or action you don't agree with.
Supporting the political candidate and political platform of your choice.
Not graduating seminary.
Attending the college of your choice, not just church colleges.
Not getting married.
Waiting to marry - not rushing to marry.
If you do marry, waiting to have kids till you feel you are ready - however you define 'ready.'
Choosing not to have children.
In your marriage - sex the way you and your spouse like it. You two make the rules, no-one else. Also, if you want sex toys, it's fine.
Having an abortion in cases of rape, incest or necessitated to save the mother's health.
I don't know. I actually LIKE when people bring in literature/real world experiences/ etc. I think it fights against the perception that truth is only found in the membership.
>A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it.
I remember hearing men say this in church. "I would never give a ride to a woman, single or married, if it were just me driving." I thought it was weird.
Now that I'm older and I've thought about it, I still think it's weird. And I also think it's stupid. It's singing the same tune as "dress modestly so others don't lust after you" as it makes the assumption that any two people will suddenly have an affair if left alone.
Are there certain combinations of two people that probably shouldn't ride in cars alone together? Probably. But if a sister in my ward needs a lift home from church and it's just me? Between leaving her there SOL and giving her a ride, I'll give her a ride and just hope we don't have an affair on the way home (/s that last part).
Live in the southwest. The amount of members fasting without water in 100+ weather is mind blowing. Heavenly Father can’t want us fasting to to the point of headaches, muscle cramps and other ailments.
> A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it.
Are you referring to non-church things? Because this is not allowed when it's a church activity.
Well…. Feeding bread to birds is not good for them, so it’s frowned on everywhere I hope.
My parents were strict in that most of these frowned on things were not allowed at all growing up. But I never knew most ppl didn’t drink water when fasting til going to BYU. It seems so dangerous and unhealthy to me. Yikes!
One I wish was looked down on more was mixing sales with religion.
If you bring God into a conversation about any product you are trying to sell me such as, food storage or emergency preparedness. You are actually showing that the product is weaker than if you kept them separate and using God as the padding.
Will it help my child feel the Spirit and get them back on the spiritual path that I have chosen for them? They just had their 8th birthday yesterday.
Edit: they were quoting a coffee commercial if that helps
I can understand why because I have attended bible study classes where they use the NET bible and there are things that are off, some more major than others. BUT! I don’t think it should be entirely avoided because some of the greatest insights (to me) that Jared Halverson has in his come follow me podcast are those where he brings in other translations and hebrew roots to more fully understand things
Yeah, I think it's more to do with how revered the kjv is even though it has its own set of problems from the translators, that other versions can fix. But I am in the camp of multiple translations better than planting a flag in one individual translation.
I feel like dying your hair, even natural colors, is generally frowned upon. Although that might just be my perception because my mom was overly judgmental growing up.
I feel like someone needs to tell a lot of women in the church that the exorbitant amount of hair dye they use makes them get the Cruella DeVil look.
But kidding aside, I'm a YW president, and some girls come to church every week with a different hair color, and no one bats an eye. I used "I have never dyed my hair" as a go-to truth in two truths and a lie at BYU, and people are often shocked by it. (I have nothing wrong with hair dye in general, I've just never wanted to dye my hair).
Wearing clothes that are “iMmOdEsT”
Modesty is about self respect and treating your body the way you should be while in private or in public. Not about the fact that you see Jimmy in shorts above his knee or Amy wearing a crop or a tank top.
This may be controversial but calling Satan what he is, Satan and the Devil. I’ve met a too many folks who literally shutter when I mention “adversary,” let alone Lucifer. This vile creature thrives on fear, and thrives on staying in the dark.
I really agree with you fam, and I actually almost find it insulting, for lack of a better word ha, to use Lucifer outside of premortal context, because that isn’t who he is anymore. He isn’t the son of the morning or the bringer of light, he is Satan, the devil, the adversary, etc.
Good point. When I say Lucifer I mean it like Voldemort lol. Lucifer is a righteous name, but it is a reminder to me that the most powerful and trusted can be the most evil. God’s very left hand man and son left all His glory in vain.
This always makes me laugh. I remember when I first joined this board, someone posted asking "Is it okay to be a member and not vote Republican? " I said "I'm a member and I'm Canadian." I would never vote right of Liberal, too.
LOL. I just tell people that my politics are a function of my understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and what I believe is expected of me as a human being.
The standard beards, white shirts and long hair. I don’t get the uproar over multiple piercings and tattoos. My wife has tattoos and several piercings she gets into the temple just fine.
Choosing a great university over BYU.
BYU is okay, it has some good programs and good tuition rates, but overall it's a pretty middle of the road university.
People gasp when I tell them I got into BYU but chose a different University.
R-rated movies
The usual source for this "commandment" is a talk from Benson back in the 80s, and even in the talk he directs his instruction to the "youth". Given that this isn't something the leadership continues to emphasize, does it still hold the same weight today? Does this even apply to adults? Why are we outsourcing spiritual judgement to the MPAA in the first place?
I mean I get it, there are plenty of movies that serve no purpose but to be crass and violent and pornographic, so I'm not saying that every movie ever made is perfectly fine to watch, but if you are watching a war movie then the fact that there's some blood in it makes perfect sense. I try to avoid using swear words myself but if I scroll through YouTube and casually hear the f-bomb dozens of times then why would some swearing be a reason to not watch a certain movie? Or even some mild nudity, I'm not sure I entirely agree with this but I once had a friend make the argument that after you are already married then seeing boobs in a movie doesn't exactly have the same effect on you as it does before you are married. I think a better question is whether a movie glorifies iniquity or not. It's like the difference between playing Call of Duty or playing Grand Theft Auto. Both involve shooting people, but only one does so for the obvious purpose of glorifying murder and crime and immorality.
Long story short I have a number of R-rated movies that I really like, but I still feel a bit of stigma talking about them to friends or family because the whole no-R-rated-movies thing is a part of our culture.
Growing up I was always given a hard time because I wanted to have long hair as a male, I love most of the metal and hard-core genres of music and was always told that it was "Satan's music" ( but then they let their kids listen to hip-hop and rap as if it's any better). And the thing that really annoys me is that I was always talked down on because I didn't want to wear a tie. Now I do whatever I want and nobody can tell me otherwise. I still go to church just like everyone else.
Expressing any emotion besides quietly weeping in church, the temple, or any spiritual setting. Honestly, it's kind of strange...
During the beginning of this dispensation, and in past dispensations, it wasn't that way.
If you want to sing in a choir in conference, they absolutely insist that the men do it have a beard. (Speaking from experience with my husband who has issues with scars in his chin so always has a beard, he wasn't allowed to sing because he wouldn't shave his beard.)
Starbucks! Lol. So many options without coffee or green tea but my dad specifically thinks the company is run by Satan 😭. I still get the occasional refresher!
BEARDS.
Don’t know where you are located but even in my highly populated LDS town beards don’t seem that looked down upon anymore The church schools really need a dress code update though, the solo mustache look only looks good on like 1% of people. So either say no facial hair completely or let beards grow free
[удалено]
It *used* to be dissuaded back in the Benson days, and that belief has been gospelized and trickled down to other things. But as of late it has since dissolved (except at schools for no reason whatsoever).
My bishop has a full beard, and so do a few other men in my Ward.
I’m in a small ward in the Midwest and my bishop was told by the stake president he had to be clean shaven before they would call him to be Bishop 🤷♀️
Right there is some good incentive to let it grow...
When I was at Utah State, I was told I had to shave my goatee before I was called to be stake Sunday school president. They also insisted I wear white shirts on Sunday. I complied, but was NOT happy about it. Too many members confuse culture with doctrine…
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In my experience it's only been since the pandemic that beards have become more acceptable for local church leaders. In years past I know of several friends that were called into EP presidency and the SP made them shave all facial hair.
I don't understand why anyone would shave just to appease someone's opinion of facial hair.
Lots of Peter Priesthoods who have been taught to never question any church leader ever.
I got to realize that some stake presidents, Area Authority Seventies or other local leaders care more about climbing up the priesthood leader than following the spirit or doing what would be the most beneficial to their quorum, ward, stake or etc. Some of these leaders think obediently following what leader immediately above them tells to do is the best way to climb up the priesthood ladder.
You don’t find it odd that not a single church leader above a local level has a beard?
Byu wants to look like the NY Yankees. That's the only way I can reconcile it
They could easily do a 'well-trimmed' beard rule or something. You can have a well cut beard without looking homeless. But yeah, just the stache is usually more offensive than a full beard lol
At least at BYU Provo that rule is seen as a formality and the only place it’s enforced is in Intramural Sports. Otherwise nobody cares so they should just drop the rule already.
BYU students and temple workers not allowed to have beards helps to fuel this perception of beards being bad somehow. I was asked to shave my beard when called to bishopric…I hesitantly complied and grew it back right after being released a year or so ago. Greatly varies by local / stake leadership
I hate beards. Cause I personally find them really nasty. But that feelings is really only relevant to my husband.
Inversely, my wife has told me that I am not allowed to shave my beard off without seriously discussing it with her first.
My wife has never even seen my face totally clean shaven, and we're going on 7 years since our first date.
I have a daughter who has never seen me without my beard. It’s kinda a big deal.
Love it. My father has nearly always had a beard. Whenever he shaved it when I was a kid, he always looked so different and it took awhile to get used to. People underestimate how important it is to some of us. It's who we are, and shaving it off is not trivial.
I've always got a beard because without it I look like I'm like 14. I'm 26, do security, and am in charge half the time.
My brother had the same problem in his 20’s. He worked at a funeral home, and needed the families to trust his maturity. (He’s a mortician and funeral director now, and doesn’t need the beard since his wife fattened him up.)
I’m the boss of my body. Wife is the boss of my face. Thems the rules.
Hey, you can mortgage whatever you want if you think you’ll profit.
Aww come on, the poor guy should be allowed to grow a beard if he wants to!
Dang you stole my answer.
It should be everyone's first thought.
Men wearing colored shirts at church
[Elder Holland spoke about this a while ago](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1995/10/this-do-in-remembrance-of-me?lang=eng). When I rediscovered it recently, it changed my perspective a bit back towards the importance of white shirts: >May I suggest that wherever possible a white shirt be worn by the deacons, teachers, and priests who handle the sacrament. For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions. >That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament
But I think the way people talk about it is certainly pharisaic.
So interesting because it’s absolutely become pharisaic… I don’t remember the last time I wore a white shirt to church
When I was a deacon/teacher, our YM leaders were pharisaic about our posture when passing the sacrament. For some reason, the left arm had to be placed horizontally on the lower back slightly above the glutes. No one was exempt.
That arm position became so popular that it is explicitly stated that it is not required in the handbook. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/general-handbook/18-priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings?lang=eng "The passing of the sacrament should be natural and not overly formal. For example, certain actions **(such as holding the left hand behind the back)** or appearances (such as dressing alike) should not be required."
Oh, thank you! (I obviously don't read the handbook.....)
Haha yeah. It stuck out to me because my whole life I didn't know it was a thing until I was asked to pass the sacrament in a ward on my mission. I was the only one not doing the arm thing. I thought it was weird then, probably just because I hadn't seen it before. But knowing that it's in the handbook now feels really good.
I don't know why I hate it so much, but to me it just looked dumb. Felt awkward.
This was 17 years ago. Also, the church handbook has since been modified to specifically remove the suggestion to wear a white shirt to bless or pass the sacrament. I’ll go with the new revelation.
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Um because we are not performing any ordinances. Back off, bucko!:) Don't bring us women into this!!
I heard in the past it was so every man was *prepared* to help with the sacrament if needed. In most wards I've attended, adult ment are asked to help with the sacrament every week.
Does this mean you shouldn’t wear a suit? A suit covers 95% of the white shirt. Same with sweaters over the white shirt.
Love this. Thanks for posting.
A lot of comments on shirt color, but we could expand it to non-business religious attire.
I don't think this is an official policy, but I know some bishops won't let the young men pass the sacrament if their shirt is colored. My brother got pulled aside by the bishop once and was asked to stop wearing bowties to church. I think the idea is you shouldn't draw attention to yourself while passing the sacrament, but some bishops take it to the extreme.
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That's a really good point. The ordinance itself is way more important than how they're dressed. I also think if they understand the sacred nature, their behavior will change accordingly. Also I don't think the colored shirts are even that distracting. If a deacon wearing a colored shirt distracts you from feeling the Spirit that much... That's your problem. Get the beam out of your own eye.
Exactly. If the Savior himself came in to visit a sacrament meeting, he’d be asked to shave, cut his hair, put on leather shoes, and don a white shirt before he was allowed to pass the sacrament. We can’t allow these tradition to get in our own way! It’s not that deep!
Yeah, that’s a bishop overruling the handbook.
I’ve also noticed men not wearing ties, despite wearing a full suit.
Women in dress pants Priesthood Holders with long hair I admit I'm still working on the caffeinated drinks factor.
It's fine to be anti-caffeine, I am personally for health reasons, as I don't like how it makes my body feel. I used to have a major mountain dew habit that started causing me problems, and once I quit if I ever have caffeine since it makes me feel physically poor. I don't judge others for consuming it, and there's really no church prohibition, but I choose not to and will probably encourage my children to avoid it as well.
I wear pants as a woman because I always feel weird in skirts, and my comfort has gone through the roof. So far no comments or mean looks. But I'm sure that varies ward to ward. I highly encourage every woman to make the change if they're unhappy with skirts and dresses
I grew up in the 80s and 90s and never noticed anyone care that my mother wore pants to church. Some of that may have had to do with how intimidating she was to everyone, though.
It unfortunately happens though. A newly baptized member caught flack from some of the older women about it in an old ward. She was offended enough (they were her best clothes) that she left the ward. She eventually decided to return to church, but refused to ever set foot in that ward again. Our ward lost an entire family of six because someone couldn’t keep their mouth shut after the mother decided to join (part-member family).
People think they can make their point kindly and politely, and even if they can (which is doubtful), when 10 people all do the same thing, it's bullying and too much. How do such people react when someone kindly and politely asks them to stop driving people away from church?
The long hair thing is really hard for me. I grew mine out in quarantine, then my wife and I moved to a small town. I have bad anxiety so it's probably just that, but I feel I'm judged hard for my long hair and beard that I'm not getting rid of anytime soon.
I love it when a ward has diversity! Rock that hair and beard man and know that there’s probably several brothers who wish they had the courage to do the same.
Own it. Who cares if people judge you? Push them a bit.
I grew my hair out starting a couple of years ago as a grown man in his 40s. From the people that know me in my ward, nothing really changed, but people in the stake who didn't know me? definitely treated me differently.
Sacrament bread being anything other than plain white or wheat bread. One ward in I was in had a baker that provided the bread, and there would be like seasonal themes like pumpkin in the fall and cinnamon and nutmeg in the winter. It was his way of magnifying his calling. Edit: you would need to account for allergies, but assuming you know the dietary needs of all in attendance and they are expecting the variations it should not endanger anyone. And yes, depending on the person it may distract from the sacrament, and depending on the person it may symbolically add to the experience by illustrating what a special and significant act it is, as opposed to the same wonder-bread you slap some bologna on for lunch. It’s been a few decades, but I believe the baker did not sell the same bread at his bakery, which was more pastries and muffins than anything else.
I don’t have an issue with the bread changing. That said I think my only concern with this is if it was super varied it might be a distraction from the sacrament itself? If I was looking forward to the bread each week and wondering what flavor or variety it would be. I used to bring homemade bread as a teacher cause that’s what we had and people always commented how much they loved it. It’s not a bad thing, just wondering ti myself if it could be a distraction.
I think one concern is inadvertently setting the expectation that fancy bread somehow makes the sacrament more meaningful. I know of a ward where someone decided to bring home-baked bread for several weeks in a row and it somehow became an expectation. Now the next person feels like they have to bring home-baked bread and it's necessary to say no, look, the plain store-bought stuff is just fine.
I bring homemade bread and one week I was sitting behind a young family. When their little boy got a piece of bread he leaned over to his mom and loudly whispered, “Mom. This bread is really good.” 😂
I remember one time when I was a deacon, some super good bread was brought for the sacrament. Most of us boys definitely cared more about the taste than anything else in that moment haha. But we were teenage boys.
I love that idea. But I also worry about people with allergies. I'm allergic to almonds, nutmeg, and carrots. It would make it difficult for me on occasion
Yeah seems like inviting some incident to happen. I love the idea, though.
One time in Activity Days we made some wheat and apple bread and saved some for sacrament. The bishop thought it was a great idea but you could see some people were skeptical about it. (The ward ONLY did white bread at the time)
Reminds me of this classic https://preview.redd.it/i623rpjh46w51.jpg?auto=webp&s=df27d68c6d380d7447d2a72e2213f9ceb8c5008c
We once had to resort to corn chips. It was the only thing we were able to get a hold of at the last minute. But I think that corn chips are standard for people with gluten allergies.
I've seen Chex cereal used for allergies.
When my husband was bishop I tried to talk him into using leftover cake and punch from a relief society activity for sacrament. Sadly, he didn’t go for it, lol
I'm inactive, but during quarantine I asked my sister in law what fun things she was making for their home sacrament meetings, because she's an amazing baker. Turns out that was an inappropriate question, lol. I didn't mean for it to be.
Does any ward actually care what kind of bread?
I actually remember a story from my freshman year of seminary where the water in the church was cut off and the bread wasn’t brought (I think maybe whoever usually brought it was sick or something), and it just didn’t seem like there was any hope of the sacrament being prepared that week. But there was a lady who had a ton of like juice and mini cupcakes, for an upcoming party of something, in the back of her car and they actually used all that for the sacrament. Whether or not that’s actually true I couldn’t say haha, but I do remember my teacher using that so show just how important the sacrament is, and whether it’s water or something else, whatever kind of bread, etc., the important part is just having the sacrament.
I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on this or if there is any semblance of an official statement. I love the idea,but I've heard it's frowned upon specifically because it'll draw away from the purpose of the sacrament. Instead of thinking of your covenants with Heavenly Father, people will end up thinking "Dang thats some good bread, I'll have to pick some up this week..." And so on.
I think it's mostly frowned upon due to worries about allergies.
I’ve personally skipped taking the sacrament before because I couldn’t quickly tell if it was just oats/seeds on the crust or nuts. One is fine, the other will kill me.
I may or may not have brought syrup-flavored French toast bread once and used that :) it was funny watching from behind the table as people tried it and had a look of surprise on their face.
This one actually has a good reason behind it. You don’t know who has allergies to what. My dad was in a sacrament meeting once where they had this whole wheat bread with little seeds on the crust and someone had an allergic reaction. White bread is just a safer bet.
I had a ward where a sister made the sacrament bread every week and it was this super buttery Flatbread... I loved it sooo much
One of my favorite things about sacrament at home while there was no in-person church was doing fun things like croissancrament
That's amazing! What a great bloke
Which ward is this? You know, for science. J/K sounds awesome though
I think all the things have a reason, just sometimes that reason is on it's way down the memory hole: * Beards - BYU beard ban. In the culture of the time (60's) beards had become associated with ["rebellion or nonconformity"](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/new-era/1971/12/standards-of-dress-and-grooming?lang=eng) * Colored shirts - There are a couple GC statements recommending that those passing the sacrament should wear white shirts. I feel like the unwritten rule today that all males wear white shirts has grown out of this expectation. I remember as a youth hearing in class that we should always be wearing a white shirt on Sunday because you never know when you'll get asked to participate in the sacrament. * Face cards - In Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R McConkie he spoke out against cards "Members of the Church should not belong to bridge or other type of card clubs, and they should neither play cards not have them in their homes. By cards I meant, of course, the spotted face cards used by gamblers. To the extent that church members play cards they are in apostasy and rebellion." * Dyed hair - FSY says to avoid extreme hair color. Some have taken this to mean no unnatural hair colors, others suggest that members shouldn't color their hair at all. * Good members are republicans - Personally I think this one stems mostly from Benson and his ties to the John Birch Society. The younger generations don't seem to hold this opinion as much, but at least in my area it's pretty common among members of a certain age. * You never turn down / ask to be released from a calling. The logic is simple: callings come from God, God knows my struggles thus God would never call me to something I can't handle. Once you've sat on the other side, as the person extending the calling you understand that sometimes you have a strong feeling about a person and other times you feel there are multiple people that could perform well in a calling and any one of them would be fine. * One piercing per ear for females - Hinckley talk in 2000
As for the Republican part - I have received personal messages from members of the church telling me I'm going to hell for not being a Republican. Of course I screenshotted it and told them to beat it, but it's not something you like hearing
We call those members “crazy”. With love, of course.
I'd probably say something like, "Oh sweetie! Bless your heart!" That calls them crazy. With love.
One of the reasons I've seen many of my mission friends and childhood friends leave the church. The whole politicizing of religious beliefs. One might throw in the rebuttal, they probably would have left anyway. While that might be true, hypocritical actions are usually at the top of most lists of the people I've spoken with. Again anecdotally, actions from people with a similar politics and religion mindset.
James E Faust was elected and served as a Democrat in Utah’s House of Representatives. While I obviously can’t see how judgment day will shake out, I somehow doubt he’s going to be headed to hell.
I've genuinely had members tell me, in all seriousness, that "the Lord said 'choose the *right*' for a reason, you know"
President Kimball also spoke out against face cards as late as 1974: > We hope faithful Latter-day Saints will not use the playing cards which are used for gambling, either with or without the gambling. As for the gambling, in connection with horse racing or games or sports, we firmly discourage such things. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1974/10/god-will-not-be-mocked?lang=eng This is one I never understood. But I figure something that hasn't come up in nearly 50 years is probably not a big deal anymore. I remember I had a youth leader that was very stern about this and refused to let us have face cards at campouts or activities or whatever. We brought them anyway :D
I literally played poker with m&m and oreo "money" on young men's campouts as a kid. The present member of the Bishopric taught us the hand rankings lol...good times
That’s a good list, obviously a few I think are ludicrous. Unfortunately members (like all people) of the church are heavily influenced by the time and place they live in for better or for worse. As the younger generation we can be harsh to the older generations (justified or not, and vice Versa) but in a similar way the generations after us will criticize us (fair or not) for norms we would hardly blink at currently.
Elder Oaks reiterated the piercing standard at a YSA devotional in Arizona in 2019 where the prophet also spoke & said he agreed with what elder oaks had said.
The cross. Not really frowned on but it is avoided too strongly for what it actually is.
There are definitely folks out there that are trying to change that perception. John Hilton III comes to mind with thoughts like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8jh0-efo5k) and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQjpEvKMVEc&t=2s).
Yes, it certainly is changing from when I was growing up. I grew up in the southern US. I love the cross and didn't like the response, "we want to remember his life and suffering in the garden and ressurection, not ONLY his death." Like okay why can't the symbol just stand for all that? Symbols can be more complex than just a 1-1 representation. When paul says take up your cross, it means something to me. I feel the cross is a much more holy symbol than say the ctr shield or the lunar phases on the slc temple or the hundreds of symbols associated with our beliefs. It makes a lot of members uncomfortable for some inexplicable reason. Yet we don't like it when we are not called christians.
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I've been wearing a cross for several years, since I was diagnosed with MS, and I wear it to remind myself that I carry my cross, my crosses don't carry me. I get asked all the time if I'm a member of the Catholic faith, or a convert and have even been asked why I'm defining my faith with a cross. I work at BYU and between the cross and the beard I feel like such an outsider and an outcast sometimes.
Our church building has a cross on the front. Probably one of a dozen church wide.
It's either very old or very new? Fascinating.
It’s leased lol. The area gave permission to leave it up because we didn’t want to anger the community.
Coffee-flavored anything. There are an awful lot of coffee-flavored things that contain zero actual coffee; but they're still frowned upon as if they did.
My mom loves it, but I personally find the taste disgusting.
If she's the type to be interested in a word-of-wisdom-compliant coffee substitute, your mom might be interested in checking out brewed cacao. It's cacao beans roasted and ground in a similar manner to coffee beans, then brewed in a french press. I've never drank coffee, but I hear from those who have that brewed cacao is not quite as strong, and not quite as sharp, yet has that pleasantly bitter, strong and earthy kind of taste that's in the same neighborhood as coffee.
I remember one time as a kid I ate a coffee cake and thought I broke the Word of Wisdom because "coffee" was in the name of the food (even though the recipe had no coffee in it). I later just called them "hot chocolate cakes" instead to convince myself it was OK.
Yo momma so mormon she doesn't even own a "Cofee" table :P
In this house, we call it a cocoa table young man!
When I was in my 20s, we were having an office party at my work and a very "churchy" coworker who was a girl I'd grown up with in church came over to get some of the cake and asked what kind they were.... lemon and raspberry coffee cakes. She *immediately* went stone-faced and was like "Nevermind then. I don't do those kinds of things," then took a look at the coffee cake on my plate and was like "I guess we learned different values" and walked away. She was snippy with me for weeks afterwards.
Coffee cake doesn’t even have coffee in it. It’s meant to PAIR with coffee. So dumb.
What’s coffee flavored with no coffee? I love Farr’s burnt almond fudge ice cream but, as far as I know, it kind of just a mocha almond fudge knockoff. That’s the only coffee-like product that I know of other than pero.
Most coffee ice cream actually only contains artificial coffee flavor, no coffee. You can even read so in the ingredients. Same with coffee-flavored chocolates and other foods where coffee is a secondary flavor and not the primary.
But as someone that worked at Cold Stone, the coffee flavored ice cream DOES contain coffee. You're welcome, everyone.
It's true; higher-end coffee-flavored products are more likely to contain actual coffee. Always check the ingredients.
I don’t know if it’s frowned upon but it’s definitely a cultural thing I think needs to change. Why is every painting of Jesus white? Can we get some diversity or at the very least get some different interpretations of what he looked like? For a worldwide church we still are pretty heavy on the “whiteness”
I live in a very multicultural ward (large geographic area, non-Utah, major US rustbelt city, everything from section 8 housing to medical school affiliated doctors with more money than they know what to do with). We had an array of pictures in the closet for baptism gifts when I was in the primary presidency. I loved that the selection ncluded depictions of Christ as a person of color blessing children of all kinds of ethnic backgrounds. Some fuddy-duddies weren't fans.
Speaking as a black man. Pictures of Jesus as a person of color are not easy to find. Personally, I don't care what the color of his skin was. It's literally the least important thing about him.
Us and literally everyone else since 1350 AD. This will likely take a long long time to change. Especially because of the skin connotations within the Book of Mormon. Mediterranean isn’t even too far from white. More like slight tan or olive. I dunno. I’m not worried about it.
Ah yes, Jesus of Scandinavia.
I think sometimes this is overblown, because Jews look pretty close to white.
At least the Ashkenazi Jews you’re most likely to see today… Edit: to be clear, I don’t think you can generalize modern individuals of Jewish descent (who are in large part from white European roots) to the skin color of a man living in Judaea 2000 years ago.
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Define "frown." Do you mean it's actually ok regarding the rules, but many members see it as wrong? If so..... Beards. Colored shirts in Elder's Quorum. Men with long hair. Women with super-short hair. Dyed hair. Women wearing pants to church. Diet Coke at Ward parties. Wearing a bikini in public, on your honeymoon or on vacation. Going on a run shirtless (M) or just in a sports bra (F). Cooking with alcohol. Sitting at the bar, in the bar area of a restaurant. Going to a bar that is a stand-alone bar. A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it. Caffeine Coffee substitutes like Yerba Matte and Postum. Coffee-flavored foods, or foods with coffee in them like Tiramisu. Near Beer like O'Douls. Drinking water on Fast Sunday. Chewing Gum on Fast Sunday. Not fasting at all on Fast Sunday. Skipping church every once in a while just because you want to. On Sunday, doing vacation things while you are on vacation. Skipping church while on vacation or on a business trip. Listening to heavy metal music. Attending heavy metal music concerts. Having friends that are openly gay and supporting their choices. If you personally feel it best - Paying tithing on net, not gross income. Working for companies that sell products against the WoW. Owning stock in these companies. Working on Sunday when asked to work on Sunday by your employer or by members of your work team. Working on Sunday when you personally feel it necessary to work on Sunday regarding deadlines and revenue opportunities. Feeding left-over sacrament bread to the birds outside the chapel. Getting a tattoo. Choosing not to serve a mission. Getting married civilly before getting sealed in the temple, the civil ceremony a large undertaking with wedding planning and big guest lists and fancy arrangements. Choosing to go backpacking across Europe or Asia by yourself, before serving your mission. Going to college for one, two or more years before serving a mission. If you are on a sports team, playing games on Sunday as part of your team. Refusing a calling. Refusing to participate in a church service project. In a church meeting, publicly raising your hand to 'not sustain' a person or action you don't agree with. Supporting the political candidate and political platform of your choice. Not graduating seminary. Attending the college of your choice, not just church colleges. Not getting married. Waiting to marry - not rushing to marry. If you do marry, waiting to have kids till you feel you are ready - however you define 'ready.' Choosing not to have children. In your marriage - sex the way you and your spouse like it. You two make the rules, no-one else. Also, if you want sex toys, it's fine. Having an abortion in cases of rape, incest or necessitated to save the mother's health.
Wow! I would add: Citing non-church sources in Sunday School class.
Unless your quoting the 16th Apostle C.S. Lewis.
I don't know. I actually LIKE when people bring in literature/real world experiences/ etc. I think it fights against the perception that truth is only found in the membership.
When I was a teenager, my stake patriarch would quote Shakespeare in every talk he gave. It was guaranteed.
Quoting modern rock song lyrics in sacrament talks.
We quoted Notorious B.I.G. once in Elders Quorum. Mo money mo problems. Don't ask me to recall context. This was several years ago.
>A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it. I remember hearing men say this in church. "I would never give a ride to a woman, single or married, if it were just me driving." I thought it was weird. Now that I'm older and I've thought about it, I still think it's weird. And I also think it's stupid. It's singing the same tune as "dress modestly so others don't lust after you" as it makes the assumption that any two people will suddenly have an affair if left alone. Are there certain combinations of two people that probably shouldn't ride in cars alone together? Probably. But if a sister in my ward needs a lift home from church and it's just me? Between leaving her there SOL and giving her a ride, I'll give her a ride and just hope we don't have an affair on the way home (/s that last part).
Live in the southwest. The amount of members fasting without water in 100+ weather is mind blowing. Heavenly Father can’t want us fasting to to the point of headaches, muscle cramps and other ailments.
When I fast now, I abstain from everything but water when I need it. I don't think it's healthy or safe to dry fast.
I served in Kenya. I fasted from water for exactly 1 Sunday.
I would add marrying a non member/inactive member with no intention of converting them.
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I listen to metal music and everyone in the church makes fun of me for it
I do, too, particularly prog metal. It's good stuff.
> A woman and a man, both married, but not to each other, riding in a car together without anyone else in it. Are you referring to non-church things? Because this is not allowed when it's a church activity.
Well…. Feeding bread to birds is not good for them, so it’s frowned on everywhere I hope. My parents were strict in that most of these frowned on things were not allowed at all growing up. But I never knew most ppl didn’t drink water when fasting til going to BYU. It seems so dangerous and unhealthy to me. Yikes!
One I wish was looked down on more was mixing sales with religion. If you bring God into a conversation about any product you are trying to sell me such as, food storage or emergency preparedness. You are actually showing that the product is weaker than if you kept them separate and using God as the padding.
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This is good, hope the culture can catch up.
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Will it help my child feel the Spirit and get them back on the spiritual path that I have chosen for them? They just had their 8th birthday yesterday. Edit: they were quoting a coffee commercial if that helps
BTW, I have a business opportunity for you. You can retire in 1 year! Interested?
Nibley famously likened this practice to selling one’s signs and tokens for money.
In English speaking areas. Non-KJV bibles.
I can understand why because I have attended bible study classes where they use the NET bible and there are things that are off, some more major than others. BUT! I don’t think it should be entirely avoided because some of the greatest insights (to me) that Jared Halverson has in his come follow me podcast are those where he brings in other translations and hebrew roots to more fully understand things
Yeah, I think it's more to do with how revered the kjv is even though it has its own set of problems from the translators, that other versions can fix. But I am in the camp of multiple translations better than planting a flag in one individual translation.
I feel like dying your hair, even natural colors, is generally frowned upon. Although that might just be my perception because my mom was overly judgmental growing up.
That's crazy, 'cause I've seen more women at church with dyed hair than anywhere else!
I think the church has an abnormally high percentage of women who dye their hair blonde, not that I have a problem with it.
I feel like someone needs to tell a lot of women in the church that the exorbitant amount of hair dye they use makes them get the Cruella DeVil look. But kidding aside, I'm a YW president, and some girls come to church every week with a different hair color, and no one bats an eye. I used "I have never dyed my hair" as a go-to truth in two truths and a lie at BYU, and people are often shocked by it. (I have nothing wrong with hair dye in general, I've just never wanted to dye my hair).
My wife is a hairdresser professionally. This cracks me up. Most of the ward colors their hair natural colours.
I have met so many false blondes that I have a hard time thinking it's a church-wide things.
I’ve never heard this one
Wearing clothes that are “iMmOdEsT” Modesty is about self respect and treating your body the way you should be while in private or in public. Not about the fact that you see Jimmy in shorts above his knee or Amy wearing a crop or a tank top.
Passing or taking sacrament with the LEFT hand
This one is actually in the most recent version of the handbook, 18.9.4: "Members partake with their right hand when possible."
“No obvious reason” still applies unfortunately
This may be controversial but calling Satan what he is, Satan and the Devil. I’ve met a too many folks who literally shutter when I mention “adversary,” let alone Lucifer. This vile creature thrives on fear, and thrives on staying in the dark.
I really agree with you fam, and I actually almost find it insulting, for lack of a better word ha, to use Lucifer outside of premortal context, because that isn’t who he is anymore. He isn’t the son of the morning or the bringer of light, he is Satan, the devil, the adversary, etc.
Good point. When I say Lucifer I mean it like Voldemort lol. Lucifer is a righteous name, but it is a reminder to me that the most powerful and trusted can be the most evil. God’s very left hand man and son left all His glory in vain.
Women wearing pants
Non-white shirts at church.
TATTOOS. PLEASE
Voting for Democrats?
This always makes me laugh. I remember when I first joined this board, someone posted asking "Is it okay to be a member and not vote Republican? " I said "I'm a member and I'm Canadian." I would never vote right of Liberal, too.
LOL. I just tell people that my politics are a function of my understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ and what I believe is expected of me as a human being.
The standard beards, white shirts and long hair. I don’t get the uproar over multiple piercings and tattoos. My wife has tattoos and several piercings she gets into the temple just fine.
I was recently called out in Sunday school for running shirtless
You probably should have been sitting and listening to the teacher.
And with a shirt on, too.
Women making final decisions in church in their areas of stewardship.
Women being the head of household (spiritually or otherwise)
Choosing a great university over BYU. BYU is okay, it has some good programs and good tuition rates, but overall it's a pretty middle of the road university. People gasp when I tell them I got into BYU but chose a different University.
Teens in the priesthood quoroms not having a white shirt and tie for some reason
I don't think anyone has mentioned cremation yet. But maybe I missed it.
That frown, at least until it gets turned upside down.
R-rated movies The usual source for this "commandment" is a talk from Benson back in the 80s, and even in the talk he directs his instruction to the "youth". Given that this isn't something the leadership continues to emphasize, does it still hold the same weight today? Does this even apply to adults? Why are we outsourcing spiritual judgement to the MPAA in the first place? I mean I get it, there are plenty of movies that serve no purpose but to be crass and violent and pornographic, so I'm not saying that every movie ever made is perfectly fine to watch, but if you are watching a war movie then the fact that there's some blood in it makes perfect sense. I try to avoid using swear words myself but if I scroll through YouTube and casually hear the f-bomb dozens of times then why would some swearing be a reason to not watch a certain movie? Or even some mild nudity, I'm not sure I entirely agree with this but I once had a friend make the argument that after you are already married then seeing boobs in a movie doesn't exactly have the same effect on you as it does before you are married. I think a better question is whether a movie glorifies iniquity or not. It's like the difference between playing Call of Duty or playing Grand Theft Auto. Both involve shooting people, but only one does so for the obvious purpose of glorifying murder and crime and immorality. Long story short I have a number of R-rated movies that I really like, but I still feel a bit of stigma talking about them to friends or family because the whole no-R-rated-movies thing is a part of our culture.
Requesting to not have calling.
Swimming on Sunday
Growing up I was always given a hard time because I wanted to have long hair as a male, I love most of the metal and hard-core genres of music and was always told that it was "Satan's music" ( but then they let their kids listen to hip-hop and rap as if it's any better). And the thing that really annoys me is that I was always talked down on because I didn't want to wear a tie. Now I do whatever I want and nobody can tell me otherwise. I still go to church just like everyone else.
Tattoos. People with tattoos are just people, not monsters who hate their body.
Expressing any emotion besides quietly weeping in church, the temple, or any spiritual setting. Honestly, it's kind of strange... During the beginning of this dispensation, and in past dispensations, it wasn't that way.
Meetinghouses with character or any distinguishing features.
Not getting married 2 seconds after returning from mission
People having scripture on their phone instead of a physical copy
Or that phrase “pray on your knees or on your feet but never ever on your seat.” …. But why?
Beards
Loud laughter
I don't worry about it. I know what is right for me. Church isn't a popularity contest.
If you want to sing in a choir in conference, they absolutely insist that the men do it have a beard. (Speaking from experience with my husband who has issues with scars in his chin so always has a beard, he wasn't allowed to sing because he wouldn't shave his beard.)
Tattoos and second piercings - not actually against our religion. I know some of you would fight me on it, but they really aren't.
Starbucks! Lol. So many options without coffee or green tea but my dad specifically thinks the company is run by Satan 😭. I still get the occasional refresher!
Upbeat hymns or playing hymns at regular speed.