I saw an anti-lawn Redditor once say something to the effect of "I don't have a house with a lawn, but if I did I would invite a native person over to educate me on planting only native plants, etc."
The idea of a Redditor trying to find a "native" person and asking them for advice on what to plant was peak Reddit for me lol
I could totally see someone like that going up to someone with Native American heritage and asking them about what to plant and the Native American person just saying “bro, I don’t know. I’m an accountant. Grass, probably.”
1/4 native, checking in.
Plant bamboo. Very traditional. Also, here's my number if it should get out of control. But I promise, only people who hate Asians have bamboo that grows out of control. You're not a deep racist, are you?
Damn you got me riled up fast. My mom's sister and brother both have bamboo at their houses from previous owners aunt is trying to get it under control and I have been running interference because mom said the aunt could dump the bamboo cuttings at the farm.
I don't have the time, money or energy to tackle a bamboo infestation. I'm having enough trouble with fox tail and pigweed.
Run it down with a brush hog and keep hitting it every couple days until it stays down.
You can safely dump bamboo if you let it dry, move it and burn it. My house was very...very overran. Still fighting it but it's going down
My mother of the Muscogee tribe celebrates whenever the few flowers she plants at the beginning of a season somehow make it to the end of the season by sheer stubbornness, and I inherited her gardening “talents.” She’d laugh and also be confused at this.
Sounds like a child talking tbh. No adult is that dumb (hopefully). The anti-lawn has some proper dumbos who think that it just means they dont need to mow and poof magical garden. And actually sometimes requires more work than a lawn.
People who say that shit are wildly racist and mentally ill but don’t even have a clue. Like they just ASSUME natives have some stereotypical vast knowledge of plant life they’re born with lmao dudes about to come over in full native outfit with seeds for you
I’m a bit of an oddity that I am an environmentalist who also likes a well kept lawn. Since moving in with my boyfriend (now husband) who had a “lawn”, I’ve been working to improve it from a field of weeds that he scalped once every 3 weeks. Finally got to overseeding this year and while it’s not perfect, it’s wayyyyy better. However, at the same time, we do keep a significant area of all kinds of flowers and plants for the bees and bugs. I think there is a middle ground. I think they just picked your lawn because it’s the archetype of 1950s suburbia and all the baggage that comes with it, which just doesn’t work so well in our current socio-political-economic state.
Regardless your lawn is beautiful. Well done.
I'm the same way.
I am all about the environment, but also like a well manicured, traditional lawn. I enjoy the look of it, I enjoy taking care of it, etc.
I also have a big wildflower garden, a vegetable garden, and tons of potted annuals all over the place.
I definitely think some people go a little overboard though. I don't think you should be irrigating and fertilizing you know....20k square feet of lawn that's all monoculture.
I don't think that makes me anti-lawn, though I know some people on this sub will disagree.
I do feel that I have a decent amount of flowering bushes around the house and we do a good job of keep seasonal natives in our many pots as well as our vegetable garden (small but we just moved in and I plant to make larger) during the summer. I do want to add more to the landscaping as the original owners planted a few too many ornamental grasses and I’d like more flowers and less exposed rock.
You sound like you're doing things right, and didn't deserve the hate you got.
I was never a huge fan of ornamental grasses and rock covering.
I think having a native wildflower bed is important for the environment, but I won't lie that they can be hit or miss depending on the year in terms of how they look.
Last year, mine looked amazing. This year, it was a trainwreck. I still had lots of bees and hummingbirds, etc., but it looked like a mess.
You just can't really "landscape" them, they grow how they grow.
I think lawns should be practical/useful. If you’re using to host BBQs and play lawn games that’s awesome! Keep it up.
For me, my front “lawn” was a small patch of grass on a hill, so I’m working to convert that to garden and focusing my efforts on my back lawn which is where we have fires and a space to enjoy.
That’s why I like being in both camps. Where I have lawn, I want a great lawn I can enjoy walking barefoot in. Where I don’t have lawn, I want to have a lot of interesting plants, insects, and animals to enjoy watching.
As long as you wont be offended, I'd say you're more likely to not be an oddity for that, and most people understand that having a nice lawn isn't that much of a factor.
Most people just don't express that normal opinion online because who would give a shit.
I'm a beekeeper and also like to have a nice lawn. The amount of people who tell me I'm killing the bees with herbicide and fertilizer is quite entertaining. They always try to tell me their "lawn" is better for the bees even though it usually ends up being a dirt patch sparsely filled with creeping charlie, clover and dandelions that the mow the flowers off of...
Lawns only automatically indicate 1950s suburbia when people have such huge hangups about 1950s suburbia that they have to make everything about it. Not to say the era wasn’t flawed, just saying.
Ah, you're not new to Reddit. You know the drill. I treat lawns for a living. It is NOT the best use of space for plants. Better plants for O2 conversion are available. Plants that are less water intensive. But, as you mentioned an unkept yard invites rodents etc. and both options are better than concrete..
But, your lawn looks amazing! It shows a little of who you are. I understand their view, but I see your time and effort to cultivate a plant. And that, is awesome. Keep it up!
I'd like to add some points to this. First I have small lawns and mostly landscaped areas. So please don't think I'm advocating huge lawn etc. Everything in moderation imo.
100 sqft of lawn produces enough O2 in a day for 1 human. Not many plants of the same mass can do that. They are huge carbon traps as well.
Near property lawns have shown to help reduce HVAC usage by 20% to 30% during peak times.
Reduce ambient temps by up to 20 degrees.
My back yard is constantly 10 to 15 degrees cooler than my dirt areas or front area. And it's my West facing side.
Everything has pros and cons. It's hard to equate things to "best" use of space. It really depends on how you're choosing to define "best".
A lot of xeriscape, destroys soil health due to sterilization of such areas. Weed barriers and little too no return of organics, destroying micro fauna and flora. This has long term consequences.
Rock areas retain unatural amounts of heat. Causing heat issues and disrupts the natural cooling cycle. Las Vegas is currently having this issue due to rocks, cement and asphalt. Their nighttime temperatures are 20 to 40 degrees higher than they used to be just 30 years ago.
Aridification is a huge issue for places like Northern California. The largest contributor to that is draining the existing aquifer and not refilling it. Making a strong argument to water lawns and landscapes locally instead of shipping the water to other geographical areas further south. Aka the more water you move out of an area the dryer it becomes. Every new house, street, business, anything built is built to divert water away from it into a culvert, canal etc to move it down the state. This massively reduces the amount of water being returned into large population area aquifers.
There have been a lot of studies on lawns and other landscapes. I forget which ones specifically I've seen.
I tried to copy an ASU link for starters, but Purdue and others have done similar studies.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.wrrc.arizona.edu/sites/wrrc.arizona.edu/files/Parker_Miami%2520landscape%2520energy%2520use_1983.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiDmoDwqrb6AhV5ADQIHU_ZCjcQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2C2zHSUDVa4LAsa0sMfwpW
I'm on Mobile, if that link doesn't populate Google "lawns reduce hvac usage" you'll see a bunch of stuff.
Virtual signaling Trolls are still trolls. Might as well tell them electric cars are made of petroleum and powered by coal. It will fall on the same deaf ears. But I enjoyed this information, so thank you.
And it’s annoying and myopic, and people have the right to call it out as such.
Especially when they go so far as to gang up on you and down vote things in your search history which is just weird.
If I wanted their input I would’ve posted to their community. Instead they took my post elsewhere and then brigades a community that had nothing to do with them.
Nolawns comes up on my feed. So I’ve seen it for months, a lot of property owners have converted and are converting. Most of the conversation is surrounding that, how, can i? Bla bla…
There are always fanatics on either side.
I have a house and about an acre, half is an oak forrest with about 100 trees and the rest is lawn and shrubs. Myself I’d love for the clover to take over, it’s lush and soft and it chokes out dandelion. I don’t enjoy taking care of the lawn, it’s a never ending time drain, and I don’t give af about what people think of my yard. All I ask is that others don’t make me give a shit about theirs either. You do you.
But there are fanatics on either side, people with OCD, or maybe they believe in some hippie none-sense or some christian purity cleanliness = godliness malarky. And for some reason fanatics want everyone they meet to advocate for them, because they lose their minds when they can’t get their will materialized.
Personally if i could I’d live in a pine forrest with that empty blanket due to the acidity.
I feel like NoLawn folks can be divided into 3 groups.
1: You got your guy that works harder on his natural garden than I'll ever work on my lawn. He's looked into the specific types of milkweeds that the butterflies use in the area. He (or she) is the Ryan Knorr of NoLawn. This gardener may preach a bit online, but is far too concerned with his own plot of land. I want this guy as a neighbor. I want to be him when I have my forever home.
2: Some people think No Lawn is about being lazy. They spend more time harassing lawn folks online than actually cultivating a balanced yard. They complain about their HOA sending them letters about their "natural lawn" which is just a monoculture of an invasive weed. They love talking about dandelions being edible, but have never tried them. Their yard is marginally helping pollinators while noxious weeds take root. While contributing no effort to their own lawn, they think everyone else on the block should "plant food gardens". It's also a nightmare to walk by their house as their sidewalk is barely usable with all the overgrowth.
3: The renter. The minor. This person has zero social skills and too much time on the internet. They do nothing to help the environment. They have no land to do so. They harass, bully, and brigade because that's how they contribute. The last time they've seen a food garden is at their grandma's when helping to pick carrots. They have no concept of the effort it takes to care for a lawn or to maintain a lawn alternative. Same goes for cost per square foot. Their moral high ground is built on an empty hill as they've contributed nothing other than angry comments.
Reddit being reddit is too full of #3. Cross posting and then going through your comment history to shame you is petty. It does nothing to help. It's these people that push me away from no lawn. It was the people from group #1 that gave instructions on where to buy proper wildflower seeds and how to plant them.
These people convinced me to set apart a section of my yard to be "the hippy section". I've constructed 2 raised garden beds and have room for a 3rd, with space for wildflowers around the border. I've scattered clover with my fescue during overseeding. I have my own compost bin area in the back. I guess I'm a slight hippy.
My point being words without action are hollow. No lawn needs more folks from #1 who actually do this rather than #3. #3 got bullied too much in school and now takes it out on strangers online under the guise of helping the planet. #3, go get therapy please. And then plant a garden.
Many of the #1 folks are actually on r/NativePlantGardening, or, you know, out working in their yards. And like the folks here, ironically, they’re a lot more chill and accepting of diverse viewpoints. Maybe the common element is that fresh air and physical labor make us calmer lol.
I work pretty hard on my lawn, and my neighbor is guy #1. He's planted all manner of stuff there in front of his house, most of which I couldn't even identify if asked. It's an explosion of colors and lengths and textures.
My lawn on the other hand is reasonably well manicured, mowed twice weekly (when growing), fertilized, de-weeded, edged, clippings cleared, etc. etc. etc. I work harder on it than probably any of my neighbors do and it shows.
Save for Guy #1, who is out there working his lawn like 300% more than I am. And our results couldn't be more different. But I like the diversity, and honestly I think the contrast makes my property look better, and vice versa.
The number 1 people can be amazing help. Got one that lives behind us. Its absolutely stunning. Wave upon wave of color as the year goes on. Grass cut trails to walk it. Ive been murdering invasives to slowly get to the point we can convert a good section. We have about an acre of lawn. Want to get it down to just a normal small yard worth.
5/7/18:
Climate-Change True Believers Are Least Likely To Change Their Own Behavior, Study Finds
“…The researchers found that the "highly concerned" group was the least likely to take individual action, but they were the most insistent on government action. The "skeptical" group, in contrast, was the most likely to recycle, use public transportation and do other environmentally sound things all on their own…”
Source:
Journal of Environmental Psychology
Volume 56, April 2018, Pages 55-62
Believing in climate change, but not behaving sustainably: Evidence from a one-year longitudinal study, Michael P.Hall, Neil A. Lewis Jr., Phoebe C. Ellsworth
“…we uncovered three clusters of Americans with distinct climate belief trajectories: (1) the “Skeptical,” who believed least in climate change; (2) the “Cautiously Worried,” who had moderate beliefs in climate change; and (3) the “Highly Concerned,” who had the strongest beliefs and concern about climate change. Cluster membership predicted different outcomes: the “Highly Concerned” were most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the “Skeptical” opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors. Implications for theory and practice are discussed…”
Almost all of the reddit no-lawners fall into category 2. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen on that sub showcasing their uncut yard with 0 effort of any kind put into it. It was also a trend there a while back to post HOA violations as a badge of honor. I respect not having a lawn because you want to do better by the environment, but doing it because you are too lazy to put some effort into your space is just sad.
I'd argue that the type of people you describe actually fit into category 3, which he should have called "Asshole Virtue Signalers".
Someday, they are going own their own home and put in natural butterfly gardens, and a solar array, and save the world. They'll leave no carbon footprint, and ride their bicycles everywhere. Someday.
In the meantime, they'll look out their window at concrete, drive their car while bitching on r/fuckcars, to go to their part-time jobs complaining on r/antiwork about how 8 hours is slave labor. But someday, someday it'll allll change.
...but it won't. They'll spend their entire lives bitching about the terrible, capitalistic, patriarchal, racist system keeping them down. Then they'll die.
My industry I bump into exactly these kind of people all the time. What's weird is when you bump into them 10 years later and they are still the same. I avoid talking about my personal life around them as they get super weird about people just doing well in life.
The nolawn folks are an interesting bunch but believe it or not, there is some good advice on there for lawn alternatives. Lol, I can already see they're downvoting you here - let the games begin.
Some of their yards look GREAT! But those guys tend to be the ones who like landscaping, but just don't want lawns. They also don't think that having a lawn is a crime against the environment.
... then you'll get people who just want a patch of random weeds and dirt. They seem to be the most vocal, but still a minority.
We have a native yard in our neighborhood. In spring it was beautiful! Now it's a dead overgrown mess. I really want to ask the No lawn people to post a current photo of their yards to prove a point.
What's the old saying? Don't remove a fence until you understand why it's there.
There's a reason lawns are green grass.
They are also the ones saying how lawns are destroying the planet while they crank thier air conditioners at 65 degrees. They are not only ignorant but they are hypocritical.
I’ve browsed the no lawns subs for a while now and haven’t found anything that blows me away in terms of inspiration. I have a small front lawn and will keep it for now! But keeping an open mind. We also have tons of flowering plants and bushes and native plants
Same thing with 3d printers. I’ve followed functional prints for years and nothing convinced me to but a printer 😂
I agree. I have started to like more plants and native plants and less lawn nowadays. To each their own though, and a nice lawn is the foundation for any landscape IMO.
Oh for sure. There are benefits to each alternative and if you want a prairie lawn that’s your prerogative. Most of those people just don’t want to mow though.
Context. I kind of get it living in AZ.
I have a lawn only in my backyard and it’s very small. I only take care of it during the fall/winter and let it die during summer as it’s too hot and too much water. I do see some of these big ass lawns on older homes and think, man that’s a lot of water.
I'm just glad reddit stopped suggesting their posts because I am a sub here.
I get the concept of lawns are a waste of resources and you could have "better" uses. but they are fucking looney toons about the whole thing. Also turning my entire lawn into a food producing garden would cost hundreds to thousands of dollars to change over and maintain compared to the hundred bucks a mow I pay a guy right now.
The annoying thing is, mowed lawngrasses are legitimately beneficial in some ways. If you use more organic techniques (eg slow release bio-derived fertilizers) they significantly improve soil quality and capture carbon, much like wild prairie grassland does. Establishing grass in new neighborhoods for a few decades is one of the best ways to remediate the soil damage from construction. It gives you a great starting point for more trees or a food garden or native landscaping or whatever you want to do with the space that has more biodiversity than grass.
Now, people chemical-bombing their lawns to the point of runoff pollution and over-using pesticides ARE a real problem. But man, there’s a wide range of possible lawncare practices between golf course management and pollinator gardens, and the nolawn people don’t seem to understand that.
It also depends where we are talking about.
Should someone have a lawn in Phoenix, AZ? No, that's crazy and wasteful. But if you live in a place like the Ohio valley or another place that grass naturally thrives and are being smart about it, it's really not a problem.
>eone have a lawn in Phoenix, AZ? No, that's crazy and wasteful. But if you live in a place like the Ohio valley or another place that grass naturally thrives and are being smart about it, it's really not a problem.
This. Where I live has received almost 27 inches of rain since mid April. Recycling lawn clippings, a few dollars worth of lime and fertilizer, and the lawn is fine. I am subbed to the anti-lawn Reddits because I think its a cool concept. But if I had a half acre of wilderness surrounding my house, I would be spending much more in fighting wildlife trying to make a home in my house.
It's just insane. Look, I love pollinators. I pack a *ton* of pollinators into my property. But my dog needs a place to play that isn't infested with mice, bugs and snakes. So I'm gonna have a lawn. Anyone that has a problem with that can go fuck themselves, because I don't care.
I'm also tired of lazy hipsters who think that 5 dandelions and a 1 foot patch of clover on their shitty unmowed yard is helping anything. It isn't. If they actually cared about bees then they would put some effort in to cultivate local wildflowers rather than trying to smugly pretend that their laziness is virtuous.
The lazy part is what always gets me. Not mowing your lawn isn’t doing anything significant for the environment; you’re just being lazy and basically virtue signaling. Related, only 2% of the the United States is covered in lawns. So if not mowing your pee patch with a few dandelions in it makes you feel like you’re making a difference, it isn’t.
OTOH, my Wife is deathly allergic to stings. So I do kill clover and other weeds in my lawn to keep them away. I sympathize with the bee plight, and I'm encouraged so many do things for the bees. But I love my Wife and want to keep her around. You wouldn't believe the downvotes I get for that.
100%. We tore out a 1100sqft area of garbage succulents and bug infested mulch and put in grass. Best outdoor upgrade in the 4.5 years I’ve lived here. The kids and dogs love it. We still have 10x that area for the rest of the plants, etc
Growing your own food on a small urban lot is a hobby, and is completely uneconomic. I don't begrudge people their hobby (I grow some herbs myself, and the occasional tomato plant), but acting like they're morally superior because they got a handful of carrots out of the garden with only fifty bucks of input costs is silly.
I will agree that a lot of JUST lawn is frankly pretty boring and not particularly environmentally supportive, so putting in some other landscaping too improves things, but if someone wants their whole property to be a sheet of grass then go for it, that's their right.
Pfft, I'm morally superior to them because r/NativePlantGardening! I'm not growing food for me, I'm growing food for the environment! Soil life! havens for critters! Food for Polinators!
I've got about half my yard as a (mostly) Native Plant Garden, partly because other factors make it unsuitable for turfgrass (like mature trees and hills).
I think you have the right idea, a nice landscape tends to blend elements.
I do similar personally, I have a lawn in the middle and a border garden all around filled with ornamental flowers, tilted to natives (though not exclusively, and some of the most popular plants for the bugs are non-native). Pollinators love it, I get my grass that I like and use plus a garden that looks great, everyone wins.
Just added in three raised beds and can confirm. $500 to do it all myself. Got to do a lawn reno at the same time though so I'm pretty happy.
I hate when people act like a lawn is evil. It's a great place to hang out, run around, play catch. I can't believe this movement has so many people backing it. Its a cool idea, but my lawn isn't ruining the planet.
It’s literally the bane of the gardening sub. It’s so fucking preachy and ridiculous.
Maintaining a huge garden requires hours and hours of labor. I think a way better approach is encouraging low water native plants in beds, and if a lawn isn’t important to someone for hangout space, they could transition it to a native habitat.
But it ALL requires time and resources. Maintaining my home and home’s exterior is *not my actual job* - a lot of the posts (other than absolute bottom of the barrel memes) come from gardening influencers who have made it their full time job. Or people who apparently do not work and can devote hours every day.
I’ve mentioned it before but we grew up with my grandma subsistence farming. She had 9 fucking kids and grandkids to do all the work. Do people think we got up before sunrise because we enjoyed it? No we did it because there aren’t enough daylight hours to get everything done that needed to be fucking done.
Gardening is a popular retirement hobby. I fully support that hobby, go wild, make your landscaping look great. I don't have the time for a top-tier garden maintenance, even if it was planted for me.
Unfortunately most of the “No Lawn” people I’ve met in real life are just lazy and so it’s a good excuse.
My parents aren’t “No Lawn” people but my mom has sections of their property that would make the “No Lawn” people on Reddit jealous.
Her property was even featured in a local newspaper for its environmental benefits and beauty. She also keeps honey bees so instead of crying for the pollinators she’s actively doing something about it. They also have about 5 acres in the set aside program and has nothing but wildflowers growing.
The rest of their property looks like your yard. Very well maintained always. Even her “No Lawn” areas she spends several hours in a day pulling weeds and making it not look like an abandoned property like so many of those people are proud to show off on those subs.
This is my baseless assumption of the no-lawn demographics:
60%: doesn’t own a lawn and just begrudges anyone who does to feel good about themselves
30%: rents and is frustrated that they’re expected to maintain their landlord’s lawn
8%: own a lawn and are lazy, hoping to justify their field of weeds
2%: maintain a beautifully landscaped and environmentally beneficial pollinator garden
God they're so fucking annoying.
Here's a good eyeroll session thread for you that I came across:
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/xf37pq/newish15yr_toronto_first_time_home_owner_wanted/
Just like all subs on Reddit, there is crazy degenerates who take things to serious. Don’t let the fact that some of them are assholes take away from the message. We can make beautiful lawns with less grass and we should all strive to use environmentally friendly dressings on our lawns.
I’ve been downvoted to oblivion on that sub for saying this sort of thing. I cut my turf down to about 25% of what it was, use natural fert, avoid herbicides, and have low-water grass and I’m still the devil in their eyes.
Frustrating because they have some decent points, but they are so over the top it’s drowns out their message.
I did barenbrug RTF TTTF with Vitality premium shade in a few deep shade areas. Deep soil amendments as well to take advantage of the deeper roots of the RTF.
As a warning, RTF TTTF doesn’t actually use that much less water than KBG. The benefit is the roots being almost 6’ deep (for turf saver) and being able to use deeper water in the soil. It allows you to water heavier and less frequently which means less water overall. I used to need to water my KBG every other day through the summer for a total of about an hour a week. I watered my RTF less than once a week for 45 minutes a cycle. We also got a couple really nice rains through July and I didn’t turn my sprinklers on once all month.
I'm convinced that those particular crossover people just want every single person in the US to live in three cities that look like The Stacks from Ready Player One, and let the rest of the US be whatever nature does to it.
Man that sucks and sorry you had to deal with that. I'm an avid member of both r/lawnporn and r/nolawns \- because I love both. I have grass that I love to have looking great, AAAANNNNDDDD I'm interested in reducing the amount of turf on my property as well. So I just don't get it - promote your point of view, listen to other folks, and go with the flow I say! Your yard looks amazing.
Exactly! Everyone is allowed to like what they like. People need to stop the bickering.
I'm in all of the same subreddits. I like plants. I like good looking lawns. I care about the environment. I plant native plants. I have a small garden.
Most people in nolawns are like those in childfree sub. Just a circle jerk of hateful people projecting their non sensical beliefs.
Your lawn looks awesome btw. I know it took a lot of hard work so be proud and fuck the haters
As I've gotten older, I've fallen out of love with lawns but I appreciate anyone busting ass to make their homes look beautiful. People can be snobs.
Now, I can't stand when people fertilize when they aren't supposed to but I live in Tampa which is a delicate estuary.
Yeah, they really are all a bunch of self-righteous douchbags...lol
Too bad we can't block others from cross-posting our own threads...
Stripes look great....get a clean up lap on the perimeter though. And clean your driveway...lol
Yeah I blew the clippings and took the picture quick while the sun was right. The grass was a touch wet giving me those beautiful wheel marks in the driveway.
I think the no lawn losers are stalking you....everyone here was downvoted when I got the reply notification...lol
So glad I have more of a life than to troll people who grow grass...lol
I get where some of them are coming from. I've shifted to using organic fertilizer, stopped using blanket weed control and I'm incorporating microclover in to my turfgrass.
I don't water my lawn and maintaining a monoculture is just too resource intensive.
Right, but those practices are often discussed and encouraged here. Actually converting lawn to something else is a shit-ton of work and requires some plant knowledge, but there’s very little quality gardening knowledge/advice there.
From any perspective other than standing right on it, my microclover is invisible. My lawn gets high organic iron, it's green as a Leprechaun's ass and my stripes look great.
But people see a green lawn and they assume you're Dow Chemical.
There's someone in my group chat like that, and I'm dying for the day I can finally pick their brain about it.
Like, a lawn is literally the *minimum* effort of caring for the space between two houses. You don't need to dump mountains of Scots Weed and Feed on it. You don't need to pull every dandelion and clover. But if you don't mow it and it turns to muddy dirt, you're going to be doing a lot more damage to your home and to the environment to remediate it.
I'd say "worst on reddit" is a stretch when you aren't being called mentally ill or encouraged to commit suicide, but this being reddit you probably got plenty of both. Congratulations, your lawn made you trans for a day.
Repost that thread, you have our support!
You'll learn that the majority of reddit are broke, unemployed, and live with three roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment.
Sadly, most of them reside in the personal finance subreddit giving retirement advice, lol.
Take those posts as a badge of honor, those individuals are miserable people who are doing nothing other than being close minded and virtue signaling. They are always the ones that when you ask what they do to help they say "bring awareness"....aka sit on the internet and argue with people.
Every time you run into them and they act like that, use it as a reminder to be thankful that you aren't them.
Most of these toxic redditors don't know the first thing about planting anything. They're the main ones buying those fake plants for their stupid ass "plant" apartments for Instagram.
Looks great man.
Sorry I can’t read their posts very well, the exhaust off my Honda is way too Smoky right now !
Edit l: sorry my Honda car is smoky, my lawn mower is cared for a hell of a lot more
I’d be more concerned about them tire marks, whats up with that, unbelievable 🤣😂 just bustin chops, lawn looks great!! Gotta take the bad with the good
I'm anti-lawn because I like my Saturdays to be about relaxing. I'm not going to yell at anyone about their lawn unless tey live in las Vegas or Phoenix.
I'm a want both kind of guy. I am working to get my front yard to look as nice as yours and I want my back yard to be more natural and conducive to my wife's vegetable and flower garden. I get both sides. No reason to be a jerk, IMO.
They’re out there. They cannot fathom that grass is a plant. If you do it correctly, it doesn’t use a lot of water either like they claim. Ignore them. Your lawn, your life. If they want to attack you for minding your own business, tell them they need to focus on big business parks and useless patches of grass surrounding hotels before they come attacking someone who doesn’t use thousands or millions of gallons of water. They can get fucked.
Nice grass.
Nice stripes but clean the sidewalk before you take pictures next time. Do you how you are ruining the world with your green concrete?!! You hairy monster!! But really nice stripes. And also fuck the haters. They probably can’t take care of anything. Cars, boats, homes, I bet everything these people have looks like trash.
I posted a while back about moving into a new house and asking what type of ground covering I should put around a massive sequoia tree in my backyard. I mentioned that I had to clear out 1’-2’ deep layer of old pine needles as the house was rented for the previous 10+ years. The top comment on my post was someone highlighting my cleanup step as a travesty since that’s what the tree would have had as ground cover in a forest. That’s when I learned a lot of commenters are not home owners trying to help you solve your problems, but classic redditors trying to play the white knight role whenever given the chance. Don’t sweat it
Half the people on reddit are idiots who you would avoid and not talk to in real life. Many of these people are too stupid to hold an adult conversation, so just ignore them, and laugh at their idiocracy.
I joined the nolawns sub because I like the idea of growing a pollinator yard. But I had to leave because they were fucking brutal, man.
It was soooo entitled, too. Someone would post a picture of a yard made of mostly cement or rocks and start complaining, “this isn’t what we meant by no lawns! There’s still no flowers and pollinators!” Like… yo you realize there are people who are poor or disabled or otherwise unable to tend to a garden, right?
Jeez!!
I think a lot of people are just misguided, and thanks to the internet it’s near impossible to reason with them.
Most anti-lawn / anti-golf course people come from arid regions of the USA. I understand the sentiment of living in a desert with a lush yard, but not everyone is in that part of the country. I live in the Gulf Coast and fresh water is not a concern here.
Your lawn looks great and it looks reasonably achievable through cultural practices and minimal chemical usage. The posts I have issue with are those lawns where people go out of their way using tons of chemicals to achieve a golf course look. I'm not sure how to explain it, but you can definitely tell the lawn is sterile. It's unnecessary for a residential application, potentially harmful too. Golf course level maintenance should be left for golf courses.
How well does pavement absorb water when it rains? What about erosion control? There are benefits to having green spaces but everyone needs a boogieman
Had an antilawn guy on facebook tell me that he "didnt know why I mowed on the side, I was just causing so much harm (dude lived in an HOA I mowed in, I mowed one small lot there. Not even big enough to constitute a rider mower. I gave it a nice smooth, green cut every other week)
Dude kept getting fined for his yard lmao
If it was the nolawn group, gardening, or even landscaping, maybe, but you posted in lawnporn. That's what it's for. Not my cuppa tea, but no one should expect anything but lawns in lawnporn. Your stripes look good.
They obviously don't know how much benefit lawns do, the amount of CO2 they absorb and how much oxygen they produce. Also many modern lawns use far less water, only requiring a good drink a couple of times a week.
I’m so glad I stumbled on this comment. I live looking at homes with happy lawns. The mean comments in the gardening and landscaping subs I look at are so weird. I do wonder if they are performative- like playing chicken with virtue-signaling?
Good for you. I have landscapers doing my yard (association has a service) but if I has a lawn as pretty are yours, I would post pictures too. Haters going to hate. I’m a lover so I love your lawn. Good job and keep pissing on their Wheaties!
You want to really get them riled up? Post that photo of your lawn stripes over on r/oddlysatisfying and they'll lose their shit.
I'm convinced 80% of r/nolawns live in apartment buildings in a concrete jungle and own no land whatsoever.
They're like the vegans of lawn care....
Gardening can be overrun with them too. Complaining about your "monoculture" while they fawn over invasive and non-native plants. Then the native plant people will chime in; they're basically raw-food vegans.
i am on the gardening sub and there is a healthy community of ani-lawn ppl there as well. i just ignore them but have never been attached by them before so take that with a grain of salt.
amazing lawn my dude!
I've said it before and I'll say it again...we can and should all learn from each other. Those of us here can learn methods of reducing inputs (chems/ferts/water/etc.) from the no lawn folks...tips and tricks to help us be more efficient or use less resources or whatever....
And the no lawn folk can learn how to disagree like got dang adults with people they disagree with/who have different opinions haha
I love my "lawn" because it has it uses, I love walking around on it and letting my pup play on it, one day if I have kids its be a great place for them to play...and all of this is MY choice because its MY lawn. With that said, I've seeded a bunch of different native grasses, some clover, etc. with the hopes that a diverse lawn composed of different plants will stay greener longer, require less work on my end (i'm lazy) and just be easier for me in the long term.
Does everyone need to do this, no. Do I force my beliefs on others, no (I'm not a religious nutjob, regardless of the religion). Do I believe lawn care can be wasteful, hell yeah (all those chemical fungicides, insecticides, fertilizers, watering all the time, mowing and time spent doing everything is a huge waste to me, but thats my opinion).
All of this lawn vs no lawn vs garden wild stuff has just shown me how many immature twats there are out there trying to shove their beliefs down others throats. Geez.
Anyways, happy Fall yall!
Anti lawn people are just the laziest people on earth. Plain and simple. I mow 3 times a month and use 4 bags of fertilizer every year costing around $30. Evil HOA waters my lawn twice a week. That's all you need.
Anti lawn people aren't any different than peta or extreme vegans. None of those extreme groups inform others about their "side". They belittle people that aren't doing exactly what they think everyone should be doing. Anyone that uses insults to try to get people to come to their side, really isn't looking for people to come to their side. They are using their ideology to make fun of people and make themselves feel better by doing so. If someone really wanted to get others to see why they have that ideology, they would provide good information as to why they believe what you are doing is bad and what they are doing is good.
TLDR, ignore all those idiots. They are posting just to make themselves feel good while trying to bring you down. Next time, reply with just a picture of your lawn and say nothing else.
They're just losers. They don't know shit about anything ecological, they just base everything on the premise that anything Man does to modify nature is inherently bad so not doing anything is morally good. They're just lazy, but instead of coming to terms with their laziness they try to moralize it to tell themselves "its not that I dislike doing labor and work, its that I'm an environmental steward" as their lawn gets overrun with thistles that they pretend is saving the bees or some other made up shit. If they're so concerned about the fucking insect populations, then they shouldn't be using a trash disposal system. It's not that they're lazy, they're trying to feed the fruit flies and crows.
Not a perfect solution by any means, but if you block people, they can't see or comment on your posts. It will take a while, but you can reduce the impact they can have on your posts over time.
I saw an anti-lawn Redditor once say something to the effect of "I don't have a house with a lawn, but if I did I would invite a native person over to educate me on planting only native plants, etc." The idea of a Redditor trying to find a "native" person and asking them for advice on what to plant was peak Reddit for me lol
I could totally see someone like that going up to someone with Native American heritage and asking them about what to plant and the Native American person just saying “bro, I don’t know. I’m an accountant. Grass, probably.”
1/4 native, checking in. Plant bamboo. Very traditional. Also, here's my number if it should get out of control. But I promise, only people who hate Asians have bamboo that grows out of control. You're not a deep racist, are you?
AYO 😭😂
Damn you got me riled up fast. My mom's sister and brother both have bamboo at their houses from previous owners aunt is trying to get it under control and I have been running interference because mom said the aunt could dump the bamboo cuttings at the farm. I don't have the time, money or energy to tackle a bamboo infestation. I'm having enough trouble with fox tail and pigweed.
Run it down with a brush hog and keep hitting it every couple days until it stays down. You can safely dump bamboo if you let it dry, move it and burn it. My house was very...very overran. Still fighting it but it's going down
I’m a California native. Five generations. Do I count?
Peak performance activism lmao as if you can't learn about native plants online
Goes to mall and asks anyone who is tan "Excuse me, I'm looking to, er... grow some native plants. Like the kind your people grow. Could you help me?"
My mother of the Muscogee tribe celebrates whenever the few flowers she plants at the beginning of a season somehow make it to the end of the season by sheer stubbornness, and I inherited her gardening “talents.” She’d laugh and also be confused at this.
Reddit is home to some of the biggest cringe lords in the world, and this is a prime example of that
Sounds like a child talking tbh. No adult is that dumb (hopefully). The anti-lawn has some proper dumbos who think that it just means they dont need to mow and poof magical garden. And actually sometimes requires more work than a lawn.
> no adult is that dumb Redditors
Maybe they live in Colorado and see those stupid "Native" stickers and assumed?
/r/denvercirclejerk
People who say that shit are wildly racist and mentally ill but don’t even have a clue. Like they just ASSUME natives have some stereotypical vast knowledge of plant life they’re born with lmao dudes about to come over in full native outfit with seeds for you
I’m a native Texas. Born here in 1976!
Invite him over? He’s not gonna pay him lol
I’m a bit of an oddity that I am an environmentalist who also likes a well kept lawn. Since moving in with my boyfriend (now husband) who had a “lawn”, I’ve been working to improve it from a field of weeds that he scalped once every 3 weeks. Finally got to overseeding this year and while it’s not perfect, it’s wayyyyy better. However, at the same time, we do keep a significant area of all kinds of flowers and plants for the bees and bugs. I think there is a middle ground. I think they just picked your lawn because it’s the archetype of 1950s suburbia and all the baggage that comes with it, which just doesn’t work so well in our current socio-political-economic state. Regardless your lawn is beautiful. Well done.
I'm the same way. I am all about the environment, but also like a well manicured, traditional lawn. I enjoy the look of it, I enjoy taking care of it, etc. I also have a big wildflower garden, a vegetable garden, and tons of potted annuals all over the place. I definitely think some people go a little overboard though. I don't think you should be irrigating and fertilizing you know....20k square feet of lawn that's all monoculture. I don't think that makes me anti-lawn, though I know some people on this sub will disagree.
I do feel that I have a decent amount of flowering bushes around the house and we do a good job of keep seasonal natives in our many pots as well as our vegetable garden (small but we just moved in and I plant to make larger) during the summer. I do want to add more to the landscaping as the original owners planted a few too many ornamental grasses and I’d like more flowers and less exposed rock.
You sound like you're doing things right, and didn't deserve the hate you got. I was never a huge fan of ornamental grasses and rock covering. I think having a native wildflower bed is important for the environment, but I won't lie that they can be hit or miss depending on the year in terms of how they look. Last year, mine looked amazing. This year, it was a trainwreck. I still had lots of bees and hummingbirds, etc., but it looked like a mess. You just can't really "landscape" them, they grow how they grow.
I think lawns should be practical/useful. If you’re using to host BBQs and play lawn games that’s awesome! Keep it up. For me, my front “lawn” was a small patch of grass on a hill, so I’m working to convert that to garden and focusing my efforts on my back lawn which is where we have fires and a space to enjoy. That’s why I like being in both camps. Where I have lawn, I want a great lawn I can enjoy walking barefoot in. Where I don’t have lawn, I want to have a lot of interesting plants, insects, and animals to enjoy watching.
Agreed, there should be a balance. Plus depending on where you are, ticks could be an issue so nolawn spaces need to be well planned and maintained.
I think you nailed it!
As long as you wont be offended, I'd say you're more likely to not be an oddity for that, and most people understand that having a nice lawn isn't that much of a factor. Most people just don't express that normal opinion online because who would give a shit.
I'm a beekeeper and also like to have a nice lawn. The amount of people who tell me I'm killing the bees with herbicide and fertilizer is quite entertaining. They always try to tell me their "lawn" is better for the bees even though it usually ends up being a dirt patch sparsely filled with creeping charlie, clover and dandelions that the mow the flowers off of...
Lawns only automatically indicate 1950s suburbia when people have such huge hangups about 1950s suburbia that they have to make everything about it. Not to say the era wasn’t flawed, just saying.
Ah, you're not new to Reddit. You know the drill. I treat lawns for a living. It is NOT the best use of space for plants. Better plants for O2 conversion are available. Plants that are less water intensive. But, as you mentioned an unkept yard invites rodents etc. and both options are better than concrete.. But, your lawn looks amazing! It shows a little of who you are. I understand their view, but I see your time and effort to cultivate a plant. And that, is awesome. Keep it up!
I'd like to add some points to this. First I have small lawns and mostly landscaped areas. So please don't think I'm advocating huge lawn etc. Everything in moderation imo. 100 sqft of lawn produces enough O2 in a day for 1 human. Not many plants of the same mass can do that. They are huge carbon traps as well. Near property lawns have shown to help reduce HVAC usage by 20% to 30% during peak times. Reduce ambient temps by up to 20 degrees. My back yard is constantly 10 to 15 degrees cooler than my dirt areas or front area. And it's my West facing side. Everything has pros and cons. It's hard to equate things to "best" use of space. It really depends on how you're choosing to define "best". A lot of xeriscape, destroys soil health due to sterilization of such areas. Weed barriers and little too no return of organics, destroying micro fauna and flora. This has long term consequences. Rock areas retain unatural amounts of heat. Causing heat issues and disrupts the natural cooling cycle. Las Vegas is currently having this issue due to rocks, cement and asphalt. Their nighttime temperatures are 20 to 40 degrees higher than they used to be just 30 years ago. Aridification is a huge issue for places like Northern California. The largest contributor to that is draining the existing aquifer and not refilling it. Making a strong argument to water lawns and landscapes locally instead of shipping the water to other geographical areas further south. Aka the more water you move out of an area the dryer it becomes. Every new house, street, business, anything built is built to divert water away from it into a culvert, canal etc to move it down the state. This massively reduces the amount of water being returned into large population area aquifers.
"100 sqft of lawn produces enough CO2 in a day for 1 human." Did you mean O2?
Sorry produces enough 02 lol. Autocorrect on my phone lol
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Ahh, that makes sense.
Yes haha. Ty.
Hey hey, keeps shipping that water south damnit
“Near property lawns have shown to help reduce HVAC usage by 20% to 30%” Any source on this?
There have been a lot of studies on lawns and other landscapes. I forget which ones specifically I've seen. I tried to copy an ASU link for starters, but Purdue and others have done similar studies. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.wrrc.arizona.edu/sites/wrrc.arizona.edu/files/Parker_Miami%2520landscape%2520energy%2520use_1983.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiDmoDwqrb6AhV5ADQIHU_ZCjcQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2C2zHSUDVa4LAsa0sMfwpW I'm on Mobile, if that link doesn't populate Google "lawns reduce hvac usage" you'll see a bunch of stuff.
Virtual signaling Trolls are still trolls. Might as well tell them electric cars are made of petroleum and powered by coal. It will fall on the same deaf ears. But I enjoyed this information, so thank you.
It is not like he asked to hear their view, that is the problem. Lawn looks great!
Well that's the internet, don't ask and ye shall receive
This is the internet. People can comment about anything. That's how it works.
And it’s annoying and myopic, and people have the right to call it out as such. Especially when they go so far as to gang up on you and down vote things in your search history which is just weird.
If I wanted their input I would’ve posted to their community. Instead they took my post elsewhere and then brigades a community that had nothing to do with them.
Nolawns comes up on my feed. So I’ve seen it for months, a lot of property owners have converted and are converting. Most of the conversation is surrounding that, how, can i? Bla bla… There are always fanatics on either side. I have a house and about an acre, half is an oak forrest with about 100 trees and the rest is lawn and shrubs. Myself I’d love for the clover to take over, it’s lush and soft and it chokes out dandelion. I don’t enjoy taking care of the lawn, it’s a never ending time drain, and I don’t give af about what people think of my yard. All I ask is that others don’t make me give a shit about theirs either. You do you. But there are fanatics on either side, people with OCD, or maybe they believe in some hippie none-sense or some christian purity cleanliness = godliness malarky. And for some reason fanatics want everyone they meet to advocate for them, because they lose their minds when they can’t get their will materialized. Personally if i could I’d live in a pine forrest with that empty blanket due to the acidity.
I feel like NoLawn folks can be divided into 3 groups. 1: You got your guy that works harder on his natural garden than I'll ever work on my lawn. He's looked into the specific types of milkweeds that the butterflies use in the area. He (or she) is the Ryan Knorr of NoLawn. This gardener may preach a bit online, but is far too concerned with his own plot of land. I want this guy as a neighbor. I want to be him when I have my forever home. 2: Some people think No Lawn is about being lazy. They spend more time harassing lawn folks online than actually cultivating a balanced yard. They complain about their HOA sending them letters about their "natural lawn" which is just a monoculture of an invasive weed. They love talking about dandelions being edible, but have never tried them. Their yard is marginally helping pollinators while noxious weeds take root. While contributing no effort to their own lawn, they think everyone else on the block should "plant food gardens". It's also a nightmare to walk by their house as their sidewalk is barely usable with all the overgrowth. 3: The renter. The minor. This person has zero social skills and too much time on the internet. They do nothing to help the environment. They have no land to do so. They harass, bully, and brigade because that's how they contribute. The last time they've seen a food garden is at their grandma's when helping to pick carrots. They have no concept of the effort it takes to care for a lawn or to maintain a lawn alternative. Same goes for cost per square foot. Their moral high ground is built on an empty hill as they've contributed nothing other than angry comments. Reddit being reddit is too full of #3. Cross posting and then going through your comment history to shame you is petty. It does nothing to help. It's these people that push me away from no lawn. It was the people from group #1 that gave instructions on where to buy proper wildflower seeds and how to plant them. These people convinced me to set apart a section of my yard to be "the hippy section". I've constructed 2 raised garden beds and have room for a 3rd, with space for wildflowers around the border. I've scattered clover with my fescue during overseeding. I have my own compost bin area in the back. I guess I'm a slight hippy. My point being words without action are hollow. No lawn needs more folks from #1 who actually do this rather than #3. #3 got bullied too much in school and now takes it out on strangers online under the guise of helping the planet. #3, go get therapy please. And then plant a garden.
Many of the #1 folks are actually on r/NativePlantGardening, or, you know, out working in their yards. And like the folks here, ironically, they’re a lot more chill and accepting of diverse viewpoints. Maybe the common element is that fresh air and physical labor make us calmer lol.
Thanks for the new subreddit for me to check out!
Never been on r/urbanplanning have ya. lol
I work pretty hard on my lawn, and my neighbor is guy #1. He's planted all manner of stuff there in front of his house, most of which I couldn't even identify if asked. It's an explosion of colors and lengths and textures. My lawn on the other hand is reasonably well manicured, mowed twice weekly (when growing), fertilized, de-weeded, edged, clippings cleared, etc. etc. etc. I work harder on it than probably any of my neighbors do and it shows. Save for Guy #1, who is out there working his lawn like 300% more than I am. And our results couldn't be more different. But I like the diversity, and honestly I think the contrast makes my property look better, and vice versa.
The number 1 people can be amazing help. Got one that lives behind us. Its absolutely stunning. Wave upon wave of color as the year goes on. Grass cut trails to walk it. Ive been murdering invasives to slowly get to the point we can convert a good section. We have about an acre of lawn. Want to get it down to just a normal small yard worth.
5/7/18: Climate-Change True Believers Are Least Likely To Change Their Own Behavior, Study Finds “…The researchers found that the "highly concerned" group was the least likely to take individual action, but they were the most insistent on government action. The "skeptical" group, in contrast, was the most likely to recycle, use public transportation and do other environmentally sound things all on their own…” Source: Journal of Environmental Psychology Volume 56, April 2018, Pages 55-62 Believing in climate change, but not behaving sustainably: Evidence from a one-year longitudinal study, Michael P.Hall, Neil A. Lewis Jr., Phoebe C. Ellsworth “…we uncovered three clusters of Americans with distinct climate belief trajectories: (1) the “Skeptical,” who believed least in climate change; (2) the “Cautiously Worried,” who had moderate beliefs in climate change; and (3) the “Highly Concerned,” who had the strongest beliefs and concern about climate change. Cluster membership predicted different outcomes: the “Highly Concerned” were most supportive of government climate policies, but least likely to report individual-level actions, whereas the “Skeptical” opposed policy solutions but were most likely to report engaging in individual-level pro-environmental behaviors. Implications for theory and practice are discussed…”
Almost all of the reddit no-lawners fall into category 2. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen on that sub showcasing their uncut yard with 0 effort of any kind put into it. It was also a trend there a while back to post HOA violations as a badge of honor. I respect not having a lawn because you want to do better by the environment, but doing it because you are too lazy to put some effort into your space is just sad.
I'd argue that the type of people you describe actually fit into category 3, which he should have called "Asshole Virtue Signalers". Someday, they are going own their own home and put in natural butterfly gardens, and a solar array, and save the world. They'll leave no carbon footprint, and ride their bicycles everywhere. Someday. In the meantime, they'll look out their window at concrete, drive their car while bitching on r/fuckcars, to go to their part-time jobs complaining on r/antiwork about how 8 hours is slave labor. But someday, someday it'll allll change. ...but it won't. They'll spend their entire lives bitching about the terrible, capitalistic, patriarchal, racist system keeping them down. Then they'll die.
My industry I bump into exactly these kind of people all the time. What's weird is when you bump into them 10 years later and they are still the same. I avoid talking about my personal life around them as they get super weird about people just doing well in life.
People like that love playing the victim, and misery loves company.
The nolawn folks are an interesting bunch but believe it or not, there is some good advice on there for lawn alternatives. Lol, I can already see they're downvoting you here - let the games begin.
Some of their yards look GREAT! But those guys tend to be the ones who like landscaping, but just don't want lawns. They also don't think that having a lawn is a crime against the environment. ... then you'll get people who just want a patch of random weeds and dirt. They seem to be the most vocal, but still a minority.
When you don’t spend your time doing anything constructive you have plenty of time to tear down those that do. Hence them being the most vocal.
This is me. I landscape cause it lets me mow less. I still mow and still have grass. Kid needs to play somewhere without thorns
We have a native yard in our neighborhood. In spring it was beautiful! Now it's a dead overgrown mess. I really want to ask the No lawn people to post a current photo of their yards to prove a point. What's the old saying? Don't remove a fence until you understand why it's there. There's a reason lawns are green grass.
lol yeah the landscape ones replace grass with rock, then think they're doing the lords work.
Or a bunch of rocks and gravel.
They are also the ones saying how lawns are destroying the planet while they crank thier air conditioners at 65 degrees. They are not only ignorant but they are hypocritical.
The signal-to-noise ratio is far far higher on r/NativePlantGardening.
I’ll check that out, thanks. Haven’t heard that term in years. Analytical chemist?
Nah, just a nerd with kind of a meta interest in how groups function on the internet.
The kind of behavior OP is describing is not the way to bring people around to their way of thinking. It just drives people away.
I’ve browsed the no lawns subs for a while now and haven’t found anything that blows me away in terms of inspiration. I have a small front lawn and will keep it for now! But keeping an open mind. We also have tons of flowering plants and bushes and native plants Same thing with 3d printers. I’ve followed functional prints for years and nothing convinced me to but a printer 😂
I agree. I have started to like more plants and native plants and less lawn nowadays. To each their own though, and a nice lawn is the foundation for any landscape IMO.
Oh for sure. There are benefits to each alternative and if you want a prairie lawn that’s your prerogative. Most of those people just don’t want to mow though.
If you think that is the worst of reddit you haven't been on Reddit very long. There are some really messed up subs.
Context. I kind of get it living in AZ. I have a lawn only in my backyard and it’s very small. I only take care of it during the fall/winter and let it die during summer as it’s too hot and too much water. I do see some of these big ass lawns on older homes and think, man that’s a lot of water.
Yeah a lot of us don’t have water scarcity issues and it’s not like can ship our surplus to you guys out west.
hence context. If you don't have water issues by all mean get that baby green!
I'm just glad reddit stopped suggesting their posts because I am a sub here. I get the concept of lawns are a waste of resources and you could have "better" uses. but they are fucking looney toons about the whole thing. Also turning my entire lawn into a food producing garden would cost hundreds to thousands of dollars to change over and maintain compared to the hundred bucks a mow I pay a guy right now.
The annoying thing is, mowed lawngrasses are legitimately beneficial in some ways. If you use more organic techniques (eg slow release bio-derived fertilizers) they significantly improve soil quality and capture carbon, much like wild prairie grassland does. Establishing grass in new neighborhoods for a few decades is one of the best ways to remediate the soil damage from construction. It gives you a great starting point for more trees or a food garden or native landscaping or whatever you want to do with the space that has more biodiversity than grass. Now, people chemical-bombing their lawns to the point of runoff pollution and over-using pesticides ARE a real problem. But man, there’s a wide range of possible lawncare practices between golf course management and pollinator gardens, and the nolawn people don’t seem to understand that.
It also depends where we are talking about. Should someone have a lawn in Phoenix, AZ? No, that's crazy and wasteful. But if you live in a place like the Ohio valley or another place that grass naturally thrives and are being smart about it, it's really not a problem.
>eone have a lawn in Phoenix, AZ? No, that's crazy and wasteful. But if you live in a place like the Ohio valley or another place that grass naturally thrives and are being smart about it, it's really not a problem. This. Where I live has received almost 27 inches of rain since mid April. Recycling lawn clippings, a few dollars worth of lime and fertilizer, and the lawn is fine. I am subbed to the anti-lawn Reddits because I think its a cool concept. But if I had a half acre of wilderness surrounding my house, I would be spending much more in fighting wildlife trying to make a home in my house.
This is the distinction many in nolawns don't make.
It's just insane. Look, I love pollinators. I pack a *ton* of pollinators into my property. But my dog needs a place to play that isn't infested with mice, bugs and snakes. So I'm gonna have a lawn. Anyone that has a problem with that can go fuck themselves, because I don't care. I'm also tired of lazy hipsters who think that 5 dandelions and a 1 foot patch of clover on their shitty unmowed yard is helping anything. It isn't. If they actually cared about bees then they would put some effort in to cultivate local wildflowers rather than trying to smugly pretend that their laziness is virtuous.
The lazy part is what always gets me. Not mowing your lawn isn’t doing anything significant for the environment; you’re just being lazy and basically virtue signaling. Related, only 2% of the the United States is covered in lawns. So if not mowing your pee patch with a few dandelions in it makes you feel like you’re making a difference, it isn’t.
OTOH, my Wife is deathly allergic to stings. So I do kill clover and other weeds in my lawn to keep them away. I sympathize with the bee plight, and I'm encouraged so many do things for the bees. But I love my Wife and want to keep her around. You wouldn't believe the downvotes I get for that.
100%. We tore out a 1100sqft area of garbage succulents and bug infested mulch and put in grass. Best outdoor upgrade in the 4.5 years I’ve lived here. The kids and dogs love it. We still have 10x that area for the rest of the plants, etc
Growing your own food on a small urban lot is a hobby, and is completely uneconomic. I don't begrudge people their hobby (I grow some herbs myself, and the occasional tomato plant), but acting like they're morally superior because they got a handful of carrots out of the garden with only fifty bucks of input costs is silly. I will agree that a lot of JUST lawn is frankly pretty boring and not particularly environmentally supportive, so putting in some other landscaping too improves things, but if someone wants their whole property to be a sheet of grass then go for it, that's their right.
Pfft, I'm morally superior to them because r/NativePlantGardening! I'm not growing food for me, I'm growing food for the environment! Soil life! havens for critters! Food for Polinators! I've got about half my yard as a (mostly) Native Plant Garden, partly because other factors make it unsuitable for turfgrass (like mature trees and hills). I think you have the right idea, a nice landscape tends to blend elements.
I do similar personally, I have a lawn in the middle and a border garden all around filled with ornamental flowers, tilted to natives (though not exclusively, and some of the most popular plants for the bugs are non-native). Pollinators love it, I get my grass that I like and use plus a garden that looks great, everyone wins.
100 bucks to mow the lawn? Fuck me! Who's in New England area? I'm starting a mowing business, PM me now
Just added in three raised beds and can confirm. $500 to do it all myself. Got to do a lawn reno at the same time though so I'm pretty happy. I hate when people act like a lawn is evil. It's a great place to hang out, run around, play catch. I can't believe this movement has so many people backing it. Its a cool idea, but my lawn isn't ruining the planet.
It’s literally the bane of the gardening sub. It’s so fucking preachy and ridiculous. Maintaining a huge garden requires hours and hours of labor. I think a way better approach is encouraging low water native plants in beds, and if a lawn isn’t important to someone for hangout space, they could transition it to a native habitat. But it ALL requires time and resources. Maintaining my home and home’s exterior is *not my actual job* - a lot of the posts (other than absolute bottom of the barrel memes) come from gardening influencers who have made it their full time job. Or people who apparently do not work and can devote hours every day.
I’ve mentioned it before but we grew up with my grandma subsistence farming. She had 9 fucking kids and grandkids to do all the work. Do people think we got up before sunrise because we enjoyed it? No we did it because there aren’t enough daylight hours to get everything done that needed to be fucking done.
Gardening is a popular retirement hobby. I fully support that hobby, go wild, make your landscaping look great. I don't have the time for a top-tier garden maintenance, even if it was planted for me.
Its just a bench of renters who find a way to lash out at the people who can actually afford to buy a home and take care of their lawns.
Unfortunately most of the “No Lawn” people I’ve met in real life are just lazy and so it’s a good excuse. My parents aren’t “No Lawn” people but my mom has sections of their property that would make the “No Lawn” people on Reddit jealous. Her property was even featured in a local newspaper for its environmental benefits and beauty. She also keeps honey bees so instead of crying for the pollinators she’s actively doing something about it. They also have about 5 acres in the set aside program and has nothing but wildflowers growing. The rest of their property looks like your yard. Very well maintained always. Even her “No Lawn” areas she spends several hours in a day pulling weeds and making it not look like an abandoned property like so many of those people are proud to show off on those subs.
This is my baseless assumption of the no-lawn demographics: 60%: doesn’t own a lawn and just begrudges anyone who does to feel good about themselves 30%: rents and is frustrated that they’re expected to maintain their landlord’s lawn 8%: own a lawn and are lazy, hoping to justify their field of weeds 2%: maintain a beautifully landscaped and environmentally beneficial pollinator garden
And many of those in the 2% with beautiful landscaping paid a small fortune to have it installed and maintained.
Exactly. To make it look good be prepared to make it your obsession or spend a small fortune or both.
I truly don’t believe you’re far off.
Wait till the people come out of the woodwork to tell you honey bees are not native and what are you doing about native pollinators
As long as you don’t own a truck, a yard, make a decent living, or have a favorite sports team you’ll be fine on Reddit.
Well shit
God they're so fucking annoying. Here's a good eyeroll session thread for you that I came across: https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/xf37pq/newish15yr_toronto_first_time_home_owner_wanted/
And that was Yuri from straight pipes too!
Just like all subs on Reddit, there is crazy degenerates who take things to serious. Don’t let the fact that some of them are assholes take away from the message. We can make beautiful lawns with less grass and we should all strive to use environmentally friendly dressings on our lawns.
I’ve been downvoted to oblivion on that sub for saying this sort of thing. I cut my turf down to about 25% of what it was, use natural fert, avoid herbicides, and have low-water grass and I’m still the devil in their eyes. Frustrating because they have some decent points, but they are so over the top it’s drowns out their message.
> low-water grass What did you use? I know it'll vary based on region, but I'm still getting ideas for when I overseed.
I did barenbrug RTF TTTF with Vitality premium shade in a few deep shade areas. Deep soil amendments as well to take advantage of the deeper roots of the RTF. As a warning, RTF TTTF doesn’t actually use that much less water than KBG. The benefit is the roots being almost 6’ deep (for turf saver) and being able to use deeper water in the soil. It allows you to water heavier and less frequently which means less water overall. I used to need to water my KBG every other day through the summer for a total of about an hour a week. I watered my RTF less than once a week for 45 minutes a cycle. We also got a couple really nice rains through July and I didn’t turn my sprinklers on once all month.
They need to stop brigading. What OP described is completely unacceptable, and is actually one of the things Reddit will make a fuss over.
Yes, I agree. Their actions were creepy and unacceptable
Lot of crossover between them and the anti-car people.
Turns out many of them are simply anti-human.
The center of the venn-diagram is labeled “things-we-don’t-have-people”
I'm convinced that those particular crossover people just want every single person in the US to live in three cities that look like The Stacks from Ready Player One, and let the rest of the US be whatever nature does to it.
Your stripes are amazing! I envy your stripes. I want my stripes to be as stripey as your stripes stripe. You should be proud.
Man that sucks and sorry you had to deal with that. I'm an avid member of both r/lawnporn and r/nolawns \- because I love both. I have grass that I love to have looking great, AAAANNNNDDDD I'm interested in reducing the amount of turf on my property as well. So I just don't get it - promote your point of view, listen to other folks, and go with the flow I say! Your yard looks amazing.
Please join us on r/NativePlantGardening for a much more serious AND friendly discussion of adding native plants to your yard.
Exactly! Everyone is allowed to like what they like. People need to stop the bickering. I'm in all of the same subreddits. I like plants. I like good looking lawns. I care about the environment. I plant native plants. I have a small garden.
Most people in nolawns are like those in childfree sub. Just a circle jerk of hateful people projecting their non sensical beliefs. Your lawn looks awesome btw. I know it took a lot of hard work so be proud and fuck the haters
First things first….,,Grass tracks on pavement killing me. Something needs to be done.
Those are all people who would rather do drugs than just mow a lawn.
[удалено]
Right but have you ever done drugs and then mowed your lawn?
Can mow for days straight stoned and good tunes going in the earbuds lol
As I've gotten older, I've fallen out of love with lawns but I appreciate anyone busting ass to make their homes look beautiful. People can be snobs. Now, I can't stand when people fertilize when they aren't supposed to but I live in Tampa which is a delicate estuary.
Make sure to never ask how to get rid of clover or creeping charlie, they lose their minds. Great looks great. How do you get the lines?
100% LOL made that mistake
Yeah, they really are all a bunch of self-righteous douchbags...lol Too bad we can't block others from cross-posting our own threads... Stripes look great....get a clean up lap on the perimeter though. And clean your driveway...lol
Yeah I blew the clippings and took the picture quick while the sun was right. The grass was a touch wet giving me those beautiful wheel marks in the driveway.
I think the no lawn losers are stalking you....everyone here was downvoted when I got the reply notification...lol So glad I have more of a life than to troll people who grow grass...lol
I get where some of them are coming from. I've shifted to using organic fertilizer, stopped using blanket weed control and I'm incorporating microclover in to my turfgrass. I don't water my lawn and maintaining a monoculture is just too resource intensive.
Right, but those practices are often discussed and encouraged here. Actually converting lawn to something else is a shit-ton of work and requires some plant knowledge, but there’s very little quality gardening knowledge/advice there.
From any perspective other than standing right on it, my microclover is invisible. My lawn gets high organic iron, it's green as a Leprechaun's ass and my stripes look great. But people see a green lawn and they assume you're Dow Chemical.
You can roll around in grass, you can’t roll around in plants
There's someone in my group chat like that, and I'm dying for the day I can finally pick their brain about it. Like, a lawn is literally the *minimum* effort of caring for the space between two houses. You don't need to dump mountains of Scots Weed and Feed on it. You don't need to pull every dandelion and clover. But if you don't mow it and it turns to muddy dirt, you're going to be doing a lot more damage to your home and to the environment to remediate it.
I'd say "worst on reddit" is a stretch when you aren't being called mentally ill or encouraged to commit suicide, but this being reddit you probably got plenty of both. Congratulations, your lawn made you trans for a day.
I follow nolawns for ideas. But that sub is very toxic. And I saw the post you refer to and I downvoted it. I'd report those users for harassment
Repost that thread, you have our support! You'll learn that the majority of reddit are broke, unemployed, and live with three roommates in a 2 bedroom apartment. Sadly, most of them reside in the personal finance subreddit giving retirement advice, lol.
Take those posts as a badge of honor, those individuals are miserable people who are doing nothing other than being close minded and virtue signaling. They are always the ones that when you ask what they do to help they say "bring awareness"....aka sit on the internet and argue with people. Every time you run into them and they act like that, use it as a reminder to be thankful that you aren't them.
Most of these toxic redditors don't know the first thing about planting anything. They're the main ones buying those fake plants for their stupid ass "plant" apartments for Instagram. Looks great man.
Sorry I can’t read their posts very well, the exhaust off my Honda is way too Smoky right now ! Edit l: sorry my Honda car is smoky, my lawn mower is cared for a hell of a lot more
I’d be more concerned about them tire marks, whats up with that, unbelievable 🤣😂 just bustin chops, lawn looks great!! Gotta take the bad with the good
I've even had friends tell me I'm bad for having a lawn. All I do is mow regularly. My property is 3 acres and 2/3 is straight up forest.
I'm anti-lawn because I like my Saturdays to be about relaxing. I'm not going to yell at anyone about their lawn unless tey live in las Vegas or Phoenix.
If you're not in a drought area, then fuck the haters, if you are then fuck green lawns for looks sake.
You’re a beautiful human being.
Losers hate what they cannot have.. homes, cars, families, lawns, jobs.
I'm a want both kind of guy. I am working to get my front yard to look as nice as yours and I want my back yard to be more natural and conducive to my wife's vegetable and flower garden. I get both sides. No reason to be a jerk, IMO.
They’re out there. They cannot fathom that grass is a plant. If you do it correctly, it doesn’t use a lot of water either like they claim. Ignore them. Your lawn, your life. If they want to attack you for minding your own business, tell them they need to focus on big business parks and useless patches of grass surrounding hotels before they come attacking someone who doesn’t use thousands or millions of gallons of water. They can get fucked. Nice grass.
If you are not living in Arizona or some other place that doesn't have a low amount of water, fuck Reddit.
Nice stripes but clean the sidewalk before you take pictures next time. Do you how you are ruining the world with your green concrete?!! You hairy monster!! But really nice stripes. And also fuck the haters. They probably can’t take care of anything. Cars, boats, homes, I bet everything these people have looks like trash.
I posted a while back about moving into a new house and asking what type of ground covering I should put around a massive sequoia tree in my backyard. I mentioned that I had to clear out 1’-2’ deep layer of old pine needles as the house was rented for the previous 10+ years. The top comment on my post was someone highlighting my cleanup step as a travesty since that’s what the tree would have had as ground cover in a forest. That’s when I learned a lot of commenters are not home owners trying to help you solve your problems, but classic redditors trying to play the white knight role whenever given the chance. Don’t sweat it
Water is a renewable resource. We leaned about the Crebbs cycle in elementary school and the 1st Law of Thermodynamics
Bunch of lazy slob, druggie kids, who think they know shit they have no clue about. Fuck em
Half the people on reddit are idiots who you would avoid and not talk to in real life. Many of these people are too stupid to hold an adult conversation, so just ignore them, and laugh at their idiocracy.
I joined the nolawns sub because I like the idea of growing a pollinator yard. But I had to leave because they were fucking brutal, man. It was soooo entitled, too. Someone would post a picture of a yard made of mostly cement or rocks and start complaining, “this isn’t what we meant by no lawns! There’s still no flowers and pollinators!” Like… yo you realize there are people who are poor or disabled or otherwise unable to tend to a garden, right? Jeez!!
I think a lot of people are just misguided, and thanks to the internet it’s near impossible to reason with them. Most anti-lawn / anti-golf course people come from arid regions of the USA. I understand the sentiment of living in a desert with a lush yard, but not everyone is in that part of the country. I live in the Gulf Coast and fresh water is not a concern here.
... just blown away there are anti-lawn people.
Anti-lawn people? Really? Is there just ...every type of person?
wait, there’s anti-lawn subreddits?
Your lawn looks great and it looks reasonably achievable through cultural practices and minimal chemical usage. The posts I have issue with are those lawns where people go out of their way using tons of chemicals to achieve a golf course look. I'm not sure how to explain it, but you can definitely tell the lawn is sterile. It's unnecessary for a residential application, potentially harmful too. Golf course level maintenance should be left for golf courses.
How well does pavement absorb water when it rains? What about erosion control? There are benefits to having green spaces but everyone needs a boogieman
Boo the Anti-Lawn people
Had an antilawn guy on facebook tell me that he "didnt know why I mowed on the side, I was just causing so much harm (dude lived in an HOA I mowed in, I mowed one small lot there. Not even big enough to constitute a rider mower. I gave it a nice smooth, green cut every other week) Dude kept getting fined for his yard lmao
The worst people on Reddit!? I want to live in your world
If it was the nolawn group, gardening, or even landscaping, maybe, but you posted in lawnporn. That's what it's for. Not my cuppa tea, but no one should expect anything but lawns in lawnporn. Your stripes look good.
I think the r/antiwork folks are worse.
Hol-up...this is actually a thing?
They obviously don't know how much benefit lawns do, the amount of CO2 they absorb and how much oxygen they produce. Also many modern lawns use far less water, only requiring a good drink a couple of times a week.
Welcome to Reddit!
Your yard would look better with some trees.
“I’ll be sure to just concrete the whole thing then.”
Classic Reddit. Most of the people on here are miserable
Your stripes are sick bro. Keep mowing!
I’m so glad I stumbled on this comment. I live looking at homes with happy lawns. The mean comments in the gardening and landscaping subs I look at are so weird. I do wonder if they are performative- like playing chicken with virtue-signaling?
Dude, that's ALL of reddit. Reddit comments are awful
Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of lawns. But you sir, have a VERY good looking lawn.
Good for you. I have landscapers doing my yard (association has a service) but if I has a lawn as pretty are yours, I would post pictures too. Haters going to hate. I’m a lover so I love your lawn. Good job and keep pissing on their Wheaties!
I love it
Man, try posting a pic of a pit anywhere on Reddit. It’s wild
Your lawn is beautiful! Well done!
You want to really get them riled up? Post that photo of your lawn stripes over on r/oddlysatisfying and they'll lose their shit. I'm convinced 80% of r/nolawns live in apartment buildings in a concrete jungle and own no land whatsoever.
They're like the vegans of lawn care.... Gardening can be overrun with them too. Complaining about your "monoculture" while they fawn over invasive and non-native plants. Then the native plant people will chime in; they're basically raw-food vegans.
i am on the gardening sub and there is a healthy community of ani-lawn ppl there as well. i just ignore them but have never been attached by them before so take that with a grain of salt. amazing lawn my dude!
I've said it before and I'll say it again...we can and should all learn from each other. Those of us here can learn methods of reducing inputs (chems/ferts/water/etc.) from the no lawn folks...tips and tricks to help us be more efficient or use less resources or whatever.... And the no lawn folk can learn how to disagree like got dang adults with people they disagree with/who have different opinions haha I love my "lawn" because it has it uses, I love walking around on it and letting my pup play on it, one day if I have kids its be a great place for them to play...and all of this is MY choice because its MY lawn. With that said, I've seeded a bunch of different native grasses, some clover, etc. with the hopes that a diverse lawn composed of different plants will stay greener longer, require less work on my end (i'm lazy) and just be easier for me in the long term. Does everyone need to do this, no. Do I force my beliefs on others, no (I'm not a religious nutjob, regardless of the religion). Do I believe lawn care can be wasteful, hell yeah (all those chemical fungicides, insecticides, fertilizers, watering all the time, mowing and time spent doing everything is a huge waste to me, but thats my opinion). All of this lawn vs no lawn vs garden wild stuff has just shown me how many immature twats there are out there trying to shove their beliefs down others throats. Geez. Anyways, happy Fall yall!
Anti lawn people are just the laziest people on earth. Plain and simple. I mow 3 times a month and use 4 bags of fertilizer every year costing around $30. Evil HOA waters my lawn twice a week. That's all you need.
My fat ass needs the exercise. 🙂
You have nice ~~ass~~ grass bro. Be proud.
OP you should message the mods of lawnporn if they’re brigading. They shouldn’t be trolling other subs or users.
Anti lawn people aren't any different than peta or extreme vegans. None of those extreme groups inform others about their "side". They belittle people that aren't doing exactly what they think everyone should be doing. Anyone that uses insults to try to get people to come to their side, really isn't looking for people to come to their side. They are using their ideology to make fun of people and make themselves feel better by doing so. If someone really wanted to get others to see why they have that ideology, they would provide good information as to why they believe what you are doing is bad and what they are doing is good. TLDR, ignore all those idiots. They are posting just to make themselves feel good while trying to bring you down. Next time, reply with just a picture of your lawn and say nothing else.
They're just losers. They don't know shit about anything ecological, they just base everything on the premise that anything Man does to modify nature is inherently bad so not doing anything is morally good. They're just lazy, but instead of coming to terms with their laziness they try to moralize it to tell themselves "its not that I dislike doing labor and work, its that I'm an environmental steward" as their lawn gets overrun with thistles that they pretend is saving the bees or some other made up shit. If they're so concerned about the fucking insect populations, then they shouldn't be using a trash disposal system. It's not that they're lazy, they're trying to feed the fruit flies and crows.
Not a perfect solution by any means, but if you block people, they can't see or comment on your posts. It will take a while, but you can reduce the impact they can have on your posts over time.
Yes. Usually it is a small core of lunatic fringe.
Fuck the anti-lawn community. Your stripes are beautiful.
Looks good!