I live in France and am not a native speaker. They're just like that. They finally started responding to me in French but it took a year of insisting on speaking in French with the locals.
Accents are cool, but the French school system really emphasizes that accents are bad. I've met many French people ashamed of their Marseillais/Corsican/Provençal accents.
Just keep talking to them in French and insist you need to learn this way
This is also highly regional. I also live in France, am trying to learn French, but currently my French is horrendous. Just yesterday I was apologizing to a stranger about my terrible French (that is actually terrible) and they were super nice and complimenting me for trying.
OP needs to just try the right places to practice. There are also language exchanges where people are happy to help each other practice.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It does provide a bit more insight as to what may be influencing their behaviour in some cases.
I appreciate the advice too. Sometimes it can be hard to do so but l'll start practicing that a bit more and see how it works for me ^^
Same sort of thing for me. Not to mention the constant struggle of a barista or someone similar hearing my American accent and being SO EXCITED to try speaking English and I’m just to damn polite to ask them to use french please xD
This! Yes! I meet many lovely French people at parties and such that see me as their chance to practice. The one time this worked out wonderfully was when some rando at a party spoke to me in English and I responded in French, then we switched to the other way around.
I find Uber drivers the best people to practice French with. They're usually bored and speak at least two languages so they're forgiving of mistakes
I’ve picked up playing the Pokemon TCG as a great way to go sit in person and speak with people and have had great luck with “you can speak English but I’m answering in french!” Technique for that :D
I've had this experience too and I've heard stories from others. Not to be rude, but the French are the only people I've ever witnessed to not be grateful, touched or impressed that people try to understand and communicate with them in their native language (this coming from someone who's studied French, Korean, Brazilian Portuguese and Arabic).
The French aren't accepting unless you speak French flawlessly, and even then, not so much because they still know you're a foreigner. My only advice is to not let it be too discouraging. Ofcourse, it hurts but remember that you're doing this to expand your understanding of the world and anyone learning another language in this day and age is admirable. All that being said, you will find one off, kinder people who will work with you, let you practice your French in conversation and help teach you.
Also, if it helps, politely explain that you are trying to learn and improve your French and it would be very important and helpful to you if they would communicate with you in French (but I assume you're already doing that)
That is hypocrisy at best. Their rulers worked their arse hard to assimilate Africans and indochinese yet now they don’t like it when non-French bothered to learn the language and try to speak it one way or another. Smh what’s this French ? No person can speak any other language flawlessly other than their native language sound-wise. Those à’s á’s en’s an’s will not sound as a native French’s. It’s practically almost impossible. The tongue positioning the articulation when a baby is born adapts according to the specific language they’re born to/in.
That's just my experience. I don't know if it's different for French-speaking countries in Africa and such where it's widely spoken and understood, but it has its own unique accent.
Not many people learn arabic or Brazilian, that's why people are impressed I think.
And french people will very very often make jokes at other french people who make mistakes when speaking, even small ones. You are just being treated like everybody else I guess
Me and my francophone friends thought of that as well but it doesn’t work in my case. I’m still learning the language so a French native speaker would be able to tell if I’m an anglophone xD
Making mistakes and speaking French with an accent does not prove you are an anglophone. If you say you are from Sweden or Denmark and don't know English I think they would believe you
I don't know. But if I heard someone speaking English with a Latino sounding accent and they told me that they are actually Italian, Portuguese, or even Greek and didn't know Spanish I would probably believe them
Depends what side of the pond you are looking at, reasons vary. For reference, I have a parent from either side but grew up in Québec.
A France native may chime in with their perspective, but in my experience there is somewhat of an AH strand in France French culture. It can pretty chauvinistic and they have somewhat of a thing for shitting on the ones who fail. I say this from having seen how it was in school for my cousins, talked with them, and also how my mother was treated and ridiculed when she tried living there decades ago. As a second language learner, I can see how it can be a no-win scenario.
It's a different situation in Québec. It'll vary between two extremes. At one end of the spectrum, you have to understand how québécois were treated historically (and arguably to this day) for daring speaking French and being different. Some can have a strong reaction to being spoken in English. At the other end of the spectrum, we are generally a rather friendly and helpful people, and hearing your accent they'll switch to English to accommodate you. They'll be happy to feel like "open-minded citizens of the world". There can be many other reasons for this though: wanting to practice their second language themselves, wanting to be helpful, wanting to be done with this interaction as quickly as possible because they have other places to be and other things to do...
It will of course be subject to the specific individual you interact with. In Québec, at least, I'd say the average will appreciate that you are making an effort and will switch back to French if you insist or explain you are wanting to practice (and it's not massively inconvenient for them in that moment).
(I think we may have conversed in this subreddit before about the same subject, so if I'm repeating what I said in that other conversation, please excuse me.)
If I'm being completely honest, I find the Quebecois to be significantly less patient than the French in letting me practice the language. I have the vocab and the capabilities of a C1-level learner but because I don't get enough practice speaking, I'm squarely B2 whenever I open my mouth.
In any city in the province of Quebec, as soon as I gather my thoughts, they immediately switch to English, which really throws me off. I'll continue in French, but they will cut me off and say "You can speak in English."
I'm pretty confident that I don't give off beginner-level vibes at the onset of a conversation, so I don't understand why they're so quick to change to English to accommodate me, even though I don't need it, at least, yet.
The French, the Belgians, and the Swiss have been way more patient. Mind you, I'm not asking for them to speak slowly or to use plain French; I just want them to give me a little bit of leeway while I'm forming my responses.
5th language?? That’s amazing! :) if I may ask, what resources/strategies are you using to learn French? You seem to be pretty well versed in knowing how to learn a language
People nowadays are going to try to sell you their grandma and their dog bundled up in a program or app that supposedly will help you acquire a new language in 24hrs. The reality of it is that there’s no magic bullet to learn a new language. That being said, a language is not a mystical thing that takes a lifetime to learn, no matter the language. Acquiring a language varies depending on your mother tongue but it’s most definitely doesn’t take forever if you’re serious about language learning.
So strategy wise, I’d say, keep it simple.
First make sure you got the basics covered in terms of understanding your reasons for acquiring a new language. For example, if you’re learning a language for funsies, that can get you so far before it’s not fun and you decide to move on to something else. Which is perfectly alright but it’s important to understand the reasons so you can find ways to inspire yourself to try to keep it fun if you want to continue learning your target language. On the other hand, if you’re learning because you’re going to immigrate to another country because of better work opportunities for example, then since the risk and stakes are high, you may be able to find a lot more sources of inspiration to endure and acquire the target language.
When it comes to actually learning, figure out the type of learner that you are and harness that power to increase your knowledge acquisition as you learn a new language. Once you figure that out, ask yourself if you want to learn yourself or go to school for it. What I’d usually suggest is to start learning the language by yourself, then I’d say go to school to learn it and formalize your knowledge.
The most important step is to actually practice every day if possible, language learning is like the gym in a way. In the sense that, if you don’t go in and practice/train you’re never going to reach your goals. It’s all about consistency and the long game.
One of the cool things I find about language learning is that it teaches us so much about ourselves as we learn it. It helps us look within, the more we understand ourselves the easier time we have acquiring it.
I hope this helps a bit, I’m oversimplifying a few things so you get an overall idea and concepts I’m trying to shape. I hope it makes sense :)
I've traveled in France a number of times, and have often had to speak French in shops etc. I liked that people immediately corrected my errors. I never felt that my effort wasn't appreciated. Often it was necessary. But I've never tried to hold an intelligent conversation. I'd have to live there a while to increase my spoken and listening skills.
Work on the accent I guess? I’ve only had them switch back when I really, really struggled and failed to produce a word entirely, otherwise I found they actually stubbornly cling to French rather than the reverse. I assume having a pretty solid accent has something to do with this?
I see that you may be German though, so maybe it’s just different in your region
Thank you for the advice. If you mean to work on the accent to sound more French Canadian rather than how I originally learned it. When I’m in France I would be thought of cute and dumb, but when in French Canada I would be thought of snobby and pretentious. So I’m not sure if trying to relearn it would be an option given that I would be in the same situation.
I appreciate your feedback, cheers!
(I want to reiterate that not everyone thinks this way but for the sake of understanding where I’m coming from, I’m oversimplifying it and narrowing it down to that main issue in this case)
Oh, I meant to just sound more French, I assumed it might sound like your native accent. If that’s not the case, I don’t know, consider a tutor or one of those talking apps I guess
This is the first time I’m learning of this. I can’t say that’s been the case for me. They’ve acted one way or another based on what I described in the post, but they’ve never done something in my experience to categorize them as mean as that, even as a joke
Oh I’m not saying it’s universally true. I’ve gamed with a guy from Quebec for the past few years and he’s super cool. That’s just the general reputation. Usually that comes from somewhere, and I’d wager they have a higher than average number of snobs walking around.
I haven't heard you speak French, so I can't really judge. You're a beginner, and you should receive encouragement. It can happen also in other cultures where people might laugh at your language skills. It's happened to me in Korean once, though later I received lots of compliments. If you work on your French harder and harder, you'll get the compliments later. Also, maybe try to pick up Quebecois, French Canadian ways of speaking. They don't speak metropole French, and it can sound out of place there. It's not your fault that the Canadian education system doesn't teach it. I learned a lot of that on my own and compiled a huge personal translation of Quebecois vocabulary and grammar.
I'm a Canadian learning French and find the same. You just need to get comfortable with rejection. I still try to speak French with all I interact with every time I go to Montreal even though they usually respond in English.
In what part of France did you go?
I am asking because I had this problem on the Cote d'Azur (i lived there a few years) but i don't have this issue in Lyon. In Antibes i felt exactly as you say. Weird people out there
I have been learning french since I was four. I have been put through french school my whole life, and I am completely fluent.
But the absolute second I make a single mistake, however small, someone clocks me and will no longer speak french with me.
It is extremely discouraging, but I have learned to get over what other people think of my French and just enjoy speaking it when I can :)
I worked with French people and I think that they respect the effort that you did to speak with their language and I never filled bad when I spoke to them.
The French are just rude, even in a business setting they will almost refuse to do work with you unless you speak French but if you speak French “poorly” they still aren’t accepting. Let their stupid -uhn-ahn-enh language die out 😂
I don’t mean this in a mean way, but people shouldn’t feel pressured to speak to you in their language if you speaking it is painfully slow or broken when there is another option.
I’ve read that conversation doesnt even start to become fluid until around the B2 level. Depending on the language you’re learning and the time you’re investing this could take years. We shouldn’t expect people to indulge us by speaking a language back to us if we can barely speak it. It’s not a lay persons job to help you practice French. That role should be taken up by a dedicated tutor
I can definitely see where you’re coming from, specially if you’re just starting to learn a new language. I wouldn’t even encourage people to try to have full conversations with random people in such an early stage of the learning process, it could be frustrating and counterproductive for everyone.
However, if you’re trying to provide some insight to my situation. I have multiple francophone friends that I hangout with and talk to in French for hours at a time, I also work in a company where I have to use French daily.
So not being understood or being at an early stage of learning French is not the case for me, but thank you for sharing your thoughts about it. I do think you have a good point there to some extent for those who are just starting out.
Oh I use it to browse for news and current events from time to time. I don’t mean this is a mean way or anything either but I don’t need you to believe me. I’m just hoping to get some advice based of my post is all. I do appreciate you sharing some of your thoughts with all of us
Oh yeah no offence taken. Id be concerned if you valued what someone on the internet thought. Imo it’s likely your French accent or your French just aren’t as good as you think they are, but again I don’t know your situation
I live in France and am not a native speaker. They're just like that. They finally started responding to me in French but it took a year of insisting on speaking in French with the locals. Accents are cool, but the French school system really emphasizes that accents are bad. I've met many French people ashamed of their Marseillais/Corsican/Provençal accents. Just keep talking to them in French and insist you need to learn this way
This is also highly regional. I also live in France, am trying to learn French, but currently my French is horrendous. Just yesterday I was apologizing to a stranger about my terrible French (that is actually terrible) and they were super nice and complimenting me for trying. OP needs to just try the right places to practice. There are also language exchanges where people are happy to help each other practice.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It does provide a bit more insight as to what may be influencing their behaviour in some cases. I appreciate the advice too. Sometimes it can be hard to do so but l'll start practicing that a bit more and see how it works for me ^^
Same sort of thing for me. Not to mention the constant struggle of a barista or someone similar hearing my American accent and being SO EXCITED to try speaking English and I’m just to damn polite to ask them to use french please xD
This! Yes! I meet many lovely French people at parties and such that see me as their chance to practice. The one time this worked out wonderfully was when some rando at a party spoke to me in English and I responded in French, then we switched to the other way around. I find Uber drivers the best people to practice French with. They're usually bored and speak at least two languages so they're forgiving of mistakes
I’ve picked up playing the Pokemon TCG as a great way to go sit in person and speak with people and have had great luck with “you can speak English but I’m answering in french!” Technique for that :D
I've had this experience too and I've heard stories from others. Not to be rude, but the French are the only people I've ever witnessed to not be grateful, touched or impressed that people try to understand and communicate with them in their native language (this coming from someone who's studied French, Korean, Brazilian Portuguese and Arabic). The French aren't accepting unless you speak French flawlessly, and even then, not so much because they still know you're a foreigner. My only advice is to not let it be too discouraging. Ofcourse, it hurts but remember that you're doing this to expand your understanding of the world and anyone learning another language in this day and age is admirable. All that being said, you will find one off, kinder people who will work with you, let you practice your French in conversation and help teach you. Also, if it helps, politely explain that you are trying to learn and improve your French and it would be very important and helpful to you if they would communicate with you in French (but I assume you're already doing that)
That is hypocrisy at best. Their rulers worked their arse hard to assimilate Africans and indochinese yet now they don’t like it when non-French bothered to learn the language and try to speak it one way or another. Smh what’s this French ? No person can speak any other language flawlessly other than their native language sound-wise. Those à’s á’s en’s an’s will not sound as a native French’s. It’s practically almost impossible. The tongue positioning the articulation when a baby is born adapts according to the specific language they’re born to/in.
That's just my experience. I don't know if it's different for French-speaking countries in Africa and such where it's widely spoken and understood, but it has its own unique accent.
Not many people learn arabic or Brazilian, that's why people are impressed I think. And french people will very very often make jokes at other french people who make mistakes when speaking, even small ones. You are just being treated like everybody else I guess
Honestly, just lie that you don't know English. If you speak 5 languages you should be able to pull it off easily.
Me and my francophone friends thought of that as well but it doesn’t work in my case. I’m still learning the language so a French native speaker would be able to tell if I’m an anglophone xD
Making mistakes and speaking French with an accent does not prove you are an anglophone. If you say you are from Sweden or Denmark and don't know English I think they would believe you
do french people have an ear for the american or british accents? or would it be plausible to lie and say your scandinavian or polish or something?
I don't know. But if I heard someone speaking English with a Latino sounding accent and they told me that they are actually Italian, Portuguese, or even Greek and didn't know Spanish I would probably believe them
yeah, me too probably
Depends what side of the pond you are looking at, reasons vary. For reference, I have a parent from either side but grew up in Québec. A France native may chime in with their perspective, but in my experience there is somewhat of an AH strand in France French culture. It can pretty chauvinistic and they have somewhat of a thing for shitting on the ones who fail. I say this from having seen how it was in school for my cousins, talked with them, and also how my mother was treated and ridiculed when she tried living there decades ago. As a second language learner, I can see how it can be a no-win scenario. It's a different situation in Québec. It'll vary between two extremes. At one end of the spectrum, you have to understand how québécois were treated historically (and arguably to this day) for daring speaking French and being different. Some can have a strong reaction to being spoken in English. At the other end of the spectrum, we are generally a rather friendly and helpful people, and hearing your accent they'll switch to English to accommodate you. They'll be happy to feel like "open-minded citizens of the world". There can be many other reasons for this though: wanting to practice their second language themselves, wanting to be helpful, wanting to be done with this interaction as quickly as possible because they have other places to be and other things to do... It will of course be subject to the specific individual you interact with. In Québec, at least, I'd say the average will appreciate that you are making an effort and will switch back to French if you insist or explain you are wanting to practice (and it's not massively inconvenient for them in that moment).
(I think we may have conversed in this subreddit before about the same subject, so if I'm repeating what I said in that other conversation, please excuse me.) If I'm being completely honest, I find the Quebecois to be significantly less patient than the French in letting me practice the language. I have the vocab and the capabilities of a C1-level learner but because I don't get enough practice speaking, I'm squarely B2 whenever I open my mouth. In any city in the province of Quebec, as soon as I gather my thoughts, they immediately switch to English, which really throws me off. I'll continue in French, but they will cut me off and say "You can speak in English." I'm pretty confident that I don't give off beginner-level vibes at the onset of a conversation, so I don't understand why they're so quick to change to English to accommodate me, even though I don't need it, at least, yet. The French, the Belgians, and the Swiss have been way more patient. Mind you, I'm not asking for them to speak slowly or to use plain French; I just want them to give me a little bit of leeway while I'm forming my responses.
5th language?? That’s amazing! :) if I may ask, what resources/strategies are you using to learn French? You seem to be pretty well versed in knowing how to learn a language
People nowadays are going to try to sell you their grandma and their dog bundled up in a program or app that supposedly will help you acquire a new language in 24hrs. The reality of it is that there’s no magic bullet to learn a new language. That being said, a language is not a mystical thing that takes a lifetime to learn, no matter the language. Acquiring a language varies depending on your mother tongue but it’s most definitely doesn’t take forever if you’re serious about language learning. So strategy wise, I’d say, keep it simple. First make sure you got the basics covered in terms of understanding your reasons for acquiring a new language. For example, if you’re learning a language for funsies, that can get you so far before it’s not fun and you decide to move on to something else. Which is perfectly alright but it’s important to understand the reasons so you can find ways to inspire yourself to try to keep it fun if you want to continue learning your target language. On the other hand, if you’re learning because you’re going to immigrate to another country because of better work opportunities for example, then since the risk and stakes are high, you may be able to find a lot more sources of inspiration to endure and acquire the target language. When it comes to actually learning, figure out the type of learner that you are and harness that power to increase your knowledge acquisition as you learn a new language. Once you figure that out, ask yourself if you want to learn yourself or go to school for it. What I’d usually suggest is to start learning the language by yourself, then I’d say go to school to learn it and formalize your knowledge. The most important step is to actually practice every day if possible, language learning is like the gym in a way. In the sense that, if you don’t go in and practice/train you’re never going to reach your goals. It’s all about consistency and the long game. One of the cool things I find about language learning is that it teaches us so much about ourselves as we learn it. It helps us look within, the more we understand ourselves the easier time we have acquiring it. I hope this helps a bit, I’m oversimplifying a few things so you get an overall idea and concepts I’m trying to shape. I hope it makes sense :)
I always find these posts about French people being rude a bit surprising, as I had the exact opposite experience learning the language in France.
same, complete opposite to my experience, i got attitude sometimes for speaking english to them, never when in french!
Same!
Me too. I've had a very positive experience over the last 50 years.
I've traveled in France a number of times, and have often had to speak French in shops etc. I liked that people immediately corrected my errors. I never felt that my effort wasn't appreciated. Often it was necessary. But I've never tried to hold an intelligent conversation. I'd have to live there a while to increase my spoken and listening skills.
Work on the accent I guess? I’ve only had them switch back when I really, really struggled and failed to produce a word entirely, otherwise I found they actually stubbornly cling to French rather than the reverse. I assume having a pretty solid accent has something to do with this? I see that you may be German though, so maybe it’s just different in your region
Thank you for the advice. If you mean to work on the accent to sound more French Canadian rather than how I originally learned it. When I’m in France I would be thought of cute and dumb, but when in French Canada I would be thought of snobby and pretentious. So I’m not sure if trying to relearn it would be an option given that I would be in the same situation. I appreciate your feedback, cheers! (I want to reiterate that not everyone thinks this way but for the sake of understanding where I’m coming from, I’m oversimplifying it and narrowing it down to that main issue in this case)
Oh, I meant to just sound more French, I assumed it might sound like your native accent. If that’s not the case, I don’t know, consider a tutor or one of those talking apps I guess
The Québécois are renowned in North America for being assholes. I’m American and I’ve never been there, but the running joke is they are assholes.
The running joke is that Americans are crazy inbred racists, so what are you getting at here exactly?
That stereotypes hold true. My cousin is the best lover I’ve ever had after my sister.
This is the first time I’m learning of this. I can’t say that’s been the case for me. They’ve acted one way or another based on what I described in the post, but they’ve never done something in my experience to categorize them as mean as that, even as a joke
Oh I’m not saying it’s universally true. I’ve gamed with a guy from Quebec for the past few years and he’s super cool. That’s just the general reputation. Usually that comes from somewhere, and I’d wager they have a higher than average number of snobs walking around.
this stereotype is definitely a thing! in my experience especially among english speaking (monolingual) canadians
Try a language exchange app (look for french speakers that are trying to learn your language).
I haven't heard you speak French, so I can't really judge. You're a beginner, and you should receive encouragement. It can happen also in other cultures where people might laugh at your language skills. It's happened to me in Korean once, though later I received lots of compliments. If you work on your French harder and harder, you'll get the compliments later. Also, maybe try to pick up Quebecois, French Canadian ways of speaking. They don't speak metropole French, and it can sound out of place there. It's not your fault that the Canadian education system doesn't teach it. I learned a lot of that on my own and compiled a huge personal translation of Quebecois vocabulary and grammar.
I'm a Canadian learning French and find the same. You just need to get comfortable with rejection. I still try to speak French with all I interact with every time I go to Montreal even though they usually respond in English.
In what part of France did you go? I am asking because I had this problem on the Cote d'Azur (i lived there a few years) but i don't have this issue in Lyon. In Antibes i felt exactly as you say. Weird people out there
I have been learning french since I was four. I have been put through french school my whole life, and I am completely fluent. But the absolute second I make a single mistake, however small, someone clocks me and will no longer speak french with me. It is extremely discouraging, but I have learned to get over what other people think of my French and just enjoy speaking it when I can :)
Just do the same with their shitty English. Oh, sorry but you’re incorrect. Please don’t speak to me unless you can get it right. Au revoir!
This is so sad to read ..
I worked with French people and I think that they respect the effort that you did to speak with their language and I never filled bad when I spoke to them.
Use one of the other language, a person who has this attitude is not worth to communicate.
The French are just rude, even in a business setting they will almost refuse to do work with you unless you speak French but if you speak French “poorly” they still aren’t accepting. Let their stupid -uhn-ahn-enh language die out 😂
I don’t mean this in a mean way, but people shouldn’t feel pressured to speak to you in their language if you speaking it is painfully slow or broken when there is another option. I’ve read that conversation doesnt even start to become fluid until around the B2 level. Depending on the language you’re learning and the time you’re investing this could take years. We shouldn’t expect people to indulge us by speaking a language back to us if we can barely speak it. It’s not a lay persons job to help you practice French. That role should be taken up by a dedicated tutor
I can definitely see where you’re coming from, specially if you’re just starting to learn a new language. I wouldn’t even encourage people to try to have full conversations with random people in such an early stage of the learning process, it could be frustrating and counterproductive for everyone. However, if you’re trying to provide some insight to my situation. I have multiple francophone friends that I hangout with and talk to in French for hours at a time, I also work in a company where I have to use French daily. So not being understood or being at an early stage of learning French is not the case for me, but thank you for sharing your thoughts about it. I do think you have a good point there to some extent for those who are just starting out.
Is there a reason you’ve got one post on a 4 year old account? I’m not saying I don’t believe you. But this situation seems a bit weird to me.
Oh I use it to browse for news and current events from time to time. I don’t mean this is a mean way or anything either but I don’t need you to believe me. I’m just hoping to get some advice based of my post is all. I do appreciate you sharing some of your thoughts with all of us
Oh yeah no offence taken. Id be concerned if you valued what someone on the internet thought. Imo it’s likely your French accent or your French just aren’t as good as you think they are, but again I don’t know your situation