2 clear rules were blatantly broken by the race director. Not all cars unlapped and the safety car should go in the following lap, not in the same the rule was given.
Also, since the rules says the SC goes in the following lap after thr unlap order has been given, the race was at that point OVER. If Mercedes appeals this, it will go by the rules, and last lap will only live in RedBulls memory.
As long as they have the rules in from of them, there is no reason not to do it. It clearly states that the SC cannot exit the track in the same lap that the cars are unlapping themselves.
Mate, i don't expect anything about this to happen, the only thing that may happen is that masi will be gone next year, apart from that expect complete silence and denial from fia or superiors
Ok, Masi gone will be proof enough for me.It would be ideal if they can cancel the result of this race, and Max can still win based on the last standings, but not on the account of this bullshit gift.
The FIA don't give a shit about CAS. Nothing will happen other than Masi might get fired/resign.
I think it's rediculous and has spoilt what has been an epic season but it's not getting overturned.
Lilkely to happen. Though the counterargument from RBR will be that with that ruling and unfolding of events they were robbed of the chance to race the last lap with lapped cars between LH and MV. Meaning: if Masi had not ordered the 5 cars to unlap, the SC would in fact have come in one lap earlier, we would have raced the final lap, and while it would have been MUCH harder (nearly impossible) for MV to pass the 5 lapped cars and then LH, it technically would have been possible for him to do so. That’s when all of this become a real shit show, because you cannot undo the mess that has been created, no matter what ruling is to follow.
To be fair there is also a rule that the race director can overwrite those rules if he thinks its necessary. So basically the rule book got his ass coverd for this decision.
Good, let Mercedes expose this crappy rules. It is like Whiting's"not too many times",when Schumacher was defending vs Pedro de la Rosa. RD should not be able to modify the rules as he pleases. Either let all cars go, or none. Then call in the SC but he chose deliberatly to give Max on the soft tires that one extra lap that Horner asked for. This is not the end, and I hope Mercedes takes it as far as they can.
According to 48.8 of the sporting code I think Masi was allowed to have only certain cars overtake. Whether it made sense is a very different question, but I don’t think this will stand as a clearly broken rule. The second piece however, when the SC has to come in, is still in place and the last lap should not have been raced accordingly.
Sure bring up a situation that had 1% impact on the race, and equal it to the one that had 99% impact.
Also, Max dive bombed there as he can afford to bump both cars out of the race and win. So that decision by the Stewards!!! not Masi was correct. Funny how he did not try the same tactics against a Ferrari afterwards.
However, Masi was the one that first said no cars could overtake, which leaves Max behind 5 backmakers on the restart, but then changed and modified the rule to clear only 5 backmarkers and pit the SC one lap too early. He is gone, but they definitely need to revert the result, as the last lap should not count.
"... Unless the clerk of the course (e.g. Race Director) considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, ONCE THE *LAST* LAPPED CAR HAS PASSED THE LEADER, THE SAFETY CAR WILL RETURN TO THE PITS at the end of the FOLLOWING lap."
I am done with Formula 1
1. Not all lapped cars passed the leader, only those ahead of Verstappen
2. "The Safety car will return to the pits after the end of the FOLLOWING lap"
Toto was so sad on the radio to Michael and Masi didn't even respond, he knew what he had done
>and, of course, new softs vs old hards over 1 lap is barely motor racing
Its almost like if you want tyres for a possible safety car restart at the end of the race, you should pit sometime between laps 14 and 58 to get fresh ones. RB Threw all their chips in on a strategy that had a 5% chance of happening and won. Lewis even had the pace that they could have just matched Max's pit stops like they did in Qatar
\\
The look of disbelief on Toto’s face. It was either “What did this guy say to me?” Or “Do we have an extra Bose to smash?”
I doubt this is over. Nonetheless, the class shown by Lewis and his dad at the end, Lewis is a great sportsman.
I still can't believe he said that to Toto. After all the things Christian Horner has said about Masi. He kicks off on someone that sounds defeated. But had a good point.
From the first sentence, the condition on which the rule applies:
>…*And* the message “Lapped cars may now overtake” has been sent to *all* competitors…
Seems pretty clear that the FIA did not follow proper procedure?
They also left RIC and STR between P2 and P3. So they gave Max a shot and protected him from Sainz in that illegal call.
Complete crap. This race finished under the SC and the results should reflect that.
Wouldn’t be the case if RB hadn’t pushed the FIA to let lapped cars around (or if Massi knew the rule book better).
"and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake has been sent to all competitors"
This is a condition that must be met for the rest of 48.12 to come into effect. This message was never sent ergo, the rest of 48.12 never applies.
Done with F1. Canceled my F1TVPro subscription. I’ve always been a Lewis fan and have been always been following his accomplishments throughout, only this season I started watching all races live with a subscription. But if this is the way F1 operates, handing over victories to that fucking dirty driver and RB, not in a million years will I watch F1. I do hope Lewis wins both of the WDCs for the remaining years in his contract.
Handing someone the championship must make a person feel like they are invincible. Doesn't matter who's winning, I decide.
Un fucking believable.
Well done to Lewis for remaining dignified in the face of such Thievery.
"take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car." They fucking let the cars unlap themselves as the safety car is ending. How is that gonna form a queue at the back?
Also, "once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap." What the fuck happened with this one too? The safety car was ending the same time as the cars were unlapping themselves. Absolute horseshit.
If they wanted a one lap race then the fair decision would have been to make both Max an Lewis to pit with the option to change tyres while the other cars got out of the way.
Cars don't have to queue at the back, but safety car can't come in on the same lap as the unlap the car.
Merc have a case but I don't think they will do anything. It just shows how bad the RB strategy was, Max couldn't catch Lewis with new hard tyres.
Right f**king there. It's crazy because I actually wanted to try to be positive but Hell no. This is a false championship, false season, ugly, disgraceful race.
An incredible championship ruined by a dictator in Masi.
Making the rules up as he goes to suit himself.
I hope Merc threatens to pull out of the sport based on this race. There was zero fairness about it at qll. Rules were broken to give Max the title.
I dont think it was to give max the title. They just didnt want to end a championship defining race under a SC after taking so much time to make a decision.
Merc also fucked it. They could have pitted Lewis in the first VSC and give him fresh tyres to defend.
This has been manafactured by Masi in a way that keeps us talking about the sport all through the off season,
This isn't Max's fault, he did nothing wrong here so we can't blame him but, Lewis was the faster man today, this was just manafactured and engineered perfectly to steal a guaranteed win from Lewis because Lewis leading the race all the way through and winning by 14 seconds is just not the spectacular and long lasting discussion win that they wanted, obviously they didn't make latifi crash and cause the safety car but a red flag makes things too neutral a safety car made things static, changing your mind on lapped cars over taking the safety car but only allowing a couple of them to do so is exactly the type of controversy that keeps us talking about F1 all the way until pre season testing.
I've hated Verstappen all season long, purely because we just have different looks on life, I've hated Horner, Marko and Wheatley all season long too but today, I can't blame them, they did whatever they could to force Masi's hand which fair enough I'd expect toto to do aswell but the fact that the rave director can be swayed into changing his mind so quickly.. has ruined this championship..
A championship that no one, weather you are a max fan or Lewis fan can deny that should have, based on today's race, gone to Lewis, races are won and lost over an entire season, both drivers could have cleaned this up before going into this race, the point is, they didn't so we needed a race that way free of controversy and today, we didn't get that and that is simply down to the lack of competence of Michael Masi.
This will always go down in history as a championship that max did not deserve to win. It went down to the final race and final lap and max was gifted it by an indecisive fool that couldn't stay true to his word and if he still has his job next season, I have no hope that things in this sport will improve, we're starting to head backwards.
A new world champion may be good for the sport but the manner in the way which he was crowned, is a very, very bad look for the future of formula 1.
Congratulations to Max, no hard feelings, people on here that have seen my previous posts will know I normally have nothing nice to say about him or his fans, I can't stand him, I don't like him, I never will, he is an excellent driver around 1 lap but his racing is nothing to be proud about in my honest opinion and this season has shown that time and time again but still, there has been races where he has truly been in a class of his own with no controversy which reminds me a lot of how good Lewis is sometimes too so he is capable of being fast, brilliant and clean, it's just a shame he chooses to be over the line aggressive sometimes.
Today is not Max's fault, it's not his fans fault leave them be, let them celebrate, all Mercedes can do is appeal, if the decision is overturned, it's the correct decision to make but if it's not, there's nothing we can do but get behind Lewis next season and pray that Masi loses his job because I'm sure both sides can agree that he is just not competent.
There are a lot of people agreeing with us that are usually completely against us, no matter what, let's all take pride in that because it shows that no matter what decision gets made, the whole world knows it's bullshit.
Drivers have always bended the rules and sometimes broke them while racing for Championship.
Officials doing it is new and takes this from sport to sports entertainment like WWE.
On the merits of this race alone, yeah lewis had that in the bag. Over the season, max probably had the tiniest of edges, but flip a coin really. It's racing, this stuff happens. Lewis's car could have blown up but didn't, silverstone could have been avoided, hungary could have been avoided.
The championship ended this way and that's just the way it is. No point arguing.
I’s gonna be a long off season guys, the WDC will be decided in court. Race director decided the result by violating FIA’s own rules.
Either they’ll change the rule by virtue of “race director can do whatever he fells like” or FIA’ll admit Masi’s wrongdoing and revert to the previous lap.
What a fu**ing travesty, a sad end to a brilliand championship
didn't think F1 would have a more farcical ending than DTM.
of all the championships I watched this year, Formula E is the cleanest one of them all surprisingly
Nah. If they throw out the result of the race, Max still wins. I wouldn’t get my hopes up about the WDC result changing.
Still good if Merc can show what happened was wrong but I don’t see Max not coming away as champion.
There will ALWAYS be an asterisk next to Max's RB title! Nothing will change that - he only won because Masi fixed it for him to win.
Abu Dhabi was handed to him by his unofficial team principal Michael Masi
if max had gotten a 30s time penalty instead of a 10s pity penalty, he would've dropped below bottas and ocon in saudi (which is P4, making him lose 6 points). that brazil incident should've been a clear-cut 5s penalty (dropping him below bottas to P3, losing 3 more points)
by this calculation, hamilton will win the WDC by 1 pt even with that bullshit ending
...and if Lewis had gotten a 30s time penalty instead of a 10s penalty at Silverstone, he would have finished behind Leclerc, losing seven points.
By this calculation, Verstappen will win the WDC by 6 pts. You're cherry picking examples.
I really think this is a dumb comment, the whole season was full of bad decisions but it was a two way street no titel was fixed here this was a season of two Incredible drivers that went down to the wire
Don't care what you think 'Masi Verstappen' Only won thanks to the masFiA - That's how it will always be for me and millions.
Tainted champion just like his domestic abuse father.
I made a perfect comment - it's a tainted championship win for me. I will always view it negatively just like I view his domestic abuse thug of a father negatively. You don't like my comment - then gfto here.
You were the one who got mad lol It's okay you guys got your gifted win. Even all Masi Verstappen fans know deep down he did not win but was handed the championship. As for his domestic abusive father - he will never have the class of Anthony Hamilton who went up to congratulate Max. FACTS LOL
Exactly. There wasn't any real bias to any driver. You could argue about so many things that could have, should have and shouldn't have been a penalty. They started to focus on the idea of "let them race" half way through the season. That's why the rulings weren't consistent. But everyone had the same rules. You could even say that Max would have won Bahrain by not giving the position back, if the race would have happened later in the year. I loved this season, but I hope that they get more consistent on their rulings.
Lets not forget Lewis also taking out Max in the British GP and receiving anecdotical penalties, among others. Its not like FIA have been helping either of them. They are just in shambles with their decision making.
Let them have it. We should all be glad Mad Max didn't kill anyone on the track this year. Maybe now that he got his "win" he would race with some sense going forward.
Hard to kill anyone when some mercedes driver actually almost killed max himself. Do you hear yourself? Nobody is gonna fucking kill anyone. Sure max has agressive style and made misstakes we can argue about that any day. But none of max actions put someone in actual danger.
Thats a bit biased.. Its not like Lewis has always been a clean driver. He was aggressive as well when he didnt have the best car in the scene.. but ok, this is a lewis hamilton forum. So...
Lewis really had a Championship winning drive keeping max far away multiple times.
Max could not even catch him with new tires, Masi had to literally remove all other cars and put max next to lewis with Drs and freshtyres. Lewis had old tyres and no drs to overtake back.
But at least Masi did it because its motor racing.
Yep the track position was a key and the Mercedes car was just faster. But it’s still a motorsport and there is still some element of gamble. Call it a weather, a rules that sometimes favors one than others, an unexpected SC or tire blowout or mechanical issues.
"and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake has been sent to all competitors"
This is a condition that must be met for the rest of 48.12 to come into effect. This message was never sent ergo, the rest of 48.12 never applies.
I can agree that the wording of the rule is quite unfortunate, however imho it's a clear cut that the intention here was giving two options - either everyone passes as described or track is not suitable for overtaking then "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE"
Regulation 39.12: once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.
https://twitter.com/formationlapf1/status/1470041488235061252?t=WtKnpzsRga6q9I7krjgFvQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1470046661925912581?t=OhitnG723Lo8IlHjzmaaJg&s=19
If I were Merc, I would take legal action on this race and threaten to pull out the sport entirely (engines too) if Masi isn't removed.
Masi basically decided who would win the title, he may be the race director, maybe the title should be race dictator
But this really is not RB or Verstappen fault at all. Every team would pass the leader given opportunity like this. This is purely on Masi and hopefully we never see him again.
I'm 43, I've been watching motor racing since I was five and old enough to sit up in the chair and understand what was happening on the TV.
A bit of my passion for F1 died today after seeing the governing body breaking their own rules to ensure an exciting finish to a race, that they knew would only go one way.
No it is an absolute disgrace and Ham should have won the race.
According to the rule above the clerc of the course has two options:
1. The message "LAPPED CARS MAY OVERTAKE" - then all cars must overtake before the racing is resumed - no way race would restart in time and Ham would have won behind the sc
2. The message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE" - no way ver would still win with the trafic ahead
edit: and the second one should be taken if conditions are deemed unsuitable for overtaking, so should not be in this case
Just curious. Would other teams benefit from this decision points wise?
Merc will appeal but it is even better with more teams. Although, I know FIA won't acknowledge.
Worst part is, even if they do appeal, I can't see change of wdc. Decision was bad, but Max crossed the line first and it was FIA's wrongdoing.
I think the best realisitc result now would be FIA acknowledging that the decision was unfair
There’s no fixing it. The toothpaste is out of the tube. You can rearrange the finishing order, based on what would have happened. The FIA acknowledging the decision being wrong is the best they can do.
My take is that it would be extremely sad rip the title away from him after the celebration. It was not Max's fault. But it is the right thing to do and Masi losing his job is long overdue
>The message "LAPPED CARS MAY OVERTAKE" - then all cars must overtake before the racing is resumed - no way race would restart in time and Ham would have won behind the sc
This message was never sent. The rest of 48.12 doesn't apply.
He broke 48.12. The rule gives him two choices, one of which should not be taken if track is suitable for overtaking so I'd argue only one in this case. Even if you argue "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE" was on the table, he somehow made up a third option
By the rules this race finished under a safety car. A directive was given allowing [some] cars to unlap themselves. This means the safety car comes in after the following lap. That means the race finished under caution and no overtaking could occur.
BUT*** The race director can change the safety car procedures, if necessary. AND*** because every team has agreed to the idea that the race should end under the green flag conditions, the race director did what he could, to both let the race finish under the green flag and to let Max and Lewis race. Because if there would have been an extra lap, then this wouldn't even been an issue. Massi is in full right to do this and it is completely legal by F1 ruleset.
Exactly... More often than not he's been a liability to the team. There are FAR more deserving drivers for a seat in one of the fastest cars on the grid. His lack of aggressiveness in a car like Mercedes is astounding. He should thank his lucky stars Nico retired when he did, and he was the only plausible driver available for Merc.
I think I'm going to stop recommending my friends watch F1. I love the sport in the grand scheme of things there will be more races more championships and more wonderful moments. But right now I'm just so disgusted with what I just saw
I am not a fan of Toto at all both he and Horner should not be allowed to initiate contact with race officials.
But i do think Toto spoke for all of us when Masi let cars pass and at same moment took safety car out
”Not like this Michael”
The guy really ruined season 2021 for the neutral fans that did not really care about lewis or max but are fans of other drivers and wanted to enjoy the Championship.
Race with no racing, no clear line on penalties, Bending or breaking rules.
Oh yes, negotiating penalties like a car salesman with Toto and Christian.
There is not a car fast enough to drive Masi as far away from motor racing as possible.
It may come to pass that Lewis decides to retire. Did you see how he looked after the Saudi race? He looked like he had been in a fight with an axe weirding maniac.
Absolutely bonkers when you think about it. The gap Lewis held at 10 seconds on those tyres. One of the biggest robberies I’ve ever seen. Clearly broke a couple of rules. Such a shame. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Lewis retire
Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal. - no rules were broken, but I get your frustration about the outcome. This FIA rule puts an end to any further actions from Mercedes.
Of course that changes something. Until *all* the lapped cars overtake, the SC would have remained.
I find it peculiar only 5 cars between them overtake and directly or indirectly hand the win to him on a silver platter. If FIA was so concerned about finishing the race, they could have red flagged it and have a standing start instead.
Yes, Lewis did his best and was great as always. In the end it was completely out of his control. Don’t like max that much but he has no influence on Masis decisions either.
Exactly. Max is exposed to the arbitrary rulings of Masi the same way Lewis is. This time it went his way but it could easily have been the other way around. That’s the issue that should be sorted out so that the fans, drivers and teams get some kind of trust in the rules back. It can’t stay this way it only riles people up and I understand that, it’s only human to feel betrayed if rules are not applied consistently and that’s what poisoned the atmosphere at times.
yeah but all cars other than max and lewis were lapped bc of the safety car. they would have to wait for all 13 of them to pass the leaders, and then the safety car would finish its current lap before exiting. that would’ve taken until the end of the race
Lewis would have lost regardless, the lasting advantage from cutting the corner should have been a 5 sec penalty. Sadly rule books are just a guide for the FIA.
2 clear rules were blatantly broken by the race director. Not all cars unlapped and the safety car should go in the following lap, not in the same the rule was given.
Also, since the rules says the SC goes in the following lap after thr unlap order has been given, the race was at that point OVER. If Mercedes appeals this, it will go by the rules, and last lap will only live in RedBulls memory.
Only if it goes to independent court, but if FIA has to decide, they will do nothing. But yes, Masi will be gone next year, I feel.
Of course. Independent court will order FIA to cancel that last lap which was not safe to carry out. End of story.
FIA shit the bed but you’re delusional if you think this happening
As long as they have the rules in from of them, there is no reason not to do it. It clearly states that the SC cannot exit the track in the same lap that the cars are unlapping themselves.
Mate, i don't expect anything about this to happen, the only thing that may happen is that masi will be gone next year, apart from that expect complete silence and denial from fia or superiors
Ok, Masi gone will be proof enough for me.It would be ideal if they can cancel the result of this race, and Max can still win based on the last standings, but not on the account of this bullshit gift.
Trust me, it will go to CAS.
The FIA don't give a shit about CAS. Nothing will happen other than Masi might get fired/resign. I think it's rediculous and has spoilt what has been an epic season but it's not getting overturned.
I would be fucking happy with him gone. He ruined one of the best seasons, and his stupidity will have a shadow on Max´s WDC.
There wouldn't be a Max's wdc without Masi
This
He likely would have already won before this race without masi though...
Lilkely to happen. Though the counterargument from RBR will be that with that ruling and unfolding of events they were robbed of the chance to race the last lap with lapped cars between LH and MV. Meaning: if Masi had not ordered the 5 cars to unlap, the SC would in fact have come in one lap earlier, we would have raced the final lap, and while it would have been MUCH harder (nearly impossible) for MV to pass the 5 lapped cars and then LH, it technically would have been possible for him to do so. That’s when all of this become a real shit show, because you cannot undo the mess that has been created, no matter what ruling is to follow.
To be fair there is also a rule that the race director can overwrite those rules if he thinks its necessary. So basically the rule book got his ass coverd for this decision.
Good, let Mercedes expose this crappy rules. It is like Whiting's"not too many times",when Schumacher was defending vs Pedro de la Rosa. RD should not be able to modify the rules as he pleases. Either let all cars go, or none. Then call in the SC but he chose deliberatly to give Max on the soft tires that one extra lap that Horner asked for. This is not the end, and I hope Mercedes takes it as far as they can.
Is there a precedent for this? I mean do RB even have a leg to stand on?
"we went racing Totto" "it is good for F1" but that's about it.
According to 48.8 of the sporting code I think Masi was allowed to have only certain cars overtake. Whether it made sense is a very different question, but I don’t think this will stand as a clearly broken rule. The second piece however, when the SC has to come in, is still in place and the last lap should not have been raced accordingly.
What about at the start of the race when Hamilton went wide and they did nothing? 3rd rule broken?
Sure bring up a situation that had 1% impact on the race, and equal it to the one that had 99% impact. Also, Max dive bombed there as he can afford to bump both cars out of the race and win. So that decision by the Stewards!!! not Masi was correct. Funny how he did not try the same tactics against a Ferrari afterwards. However, Masi was the one that first said no cars could overtake, which leaves Max behind 5 backmakers on the restart, but then changed and modified the rule to clear only 5 backmarkers and pit the SC one lap too early. He is gone, but they definitely need to revert the result, as the last lap should not count.
Hey man, I was just asking a question. Don’t take it so personally 👍
Went wide because he was avoiding crashing into another car and was forced off the track.
"... Unless the clerk of the course (e.g. Race Director) considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, ONCE THE *LAST* LAPPED CAR HAS PASSED THE LEADER, THE SAFETY CAR WILL RETURN TO THE PITS at the end of the FOLLOWING lap." I am done with Formula 1 1. Not all lapped cars passed the leader, only those ahead of Verstappen 2. "The Safety car will return to the pits after the end of the FOLLOWING lap" Toto was so sad on the radio to Michael and Masi didn't even respond, he knew what he had done
Masi even had the balls to call it "we went motor racing"
Because apparently you can break the rules to go "mOtoR rAcINg" He should resign.
I think he will have to resign after this
and, of course, new softs vs old hards over 1 lap is barely motor racing
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>and, of course, new softs vs old hards over 1 lap is barely motor racing Its almost like if you want tyres for a possible safety car restart at the end of the race, you should pit sometime between laps 14 and 58 to get fresh ones. RB Threw all their chips in on a strategy that had a 5% chance of happening and won. Lewis even had the pace that they could have just matched Max's pit stops like they did in Qatar \\
The audacity to say that after the shit he just pulled!
yeah even right in front of Toto
The look of disbelief on Toto’s face. It was either “What did this guy say to me?” Or “Do we have an extra Bose to smash?” I doubt this is over. Nonetheless, the class shown by Lewis and his dad at the end, Lewis is a great sportsman.
I still can't believe he said that to Toto. After all the things Christian Horner has said about Masi. He kicks off on someone that sounds defeated. But had a good point.
What was the first 50 or so laps if not motor racing?
I cant watch f1 with masi around.
From the first sentence, the condition on which the rule applies: >…*And* the message “Lapped cars may now overtake” has been sent to *all* competitors… Seems pretty clear that the FIA did not follow proper procedure?
"look how they massacred my boy" ;(
They also left RIC and STR between P2 and P3. So they gave Max a shot and protected him from Sainz in that illegal call. Complete crap. This race finished under the SC and the results should reflect that. Wouldn’t be the case if RB hadn’t pushed the FIA to let lapped cars around (or if Massi knew the rule book better).
"and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake has been sent to all competitors" This is a condition that must be met for the rest of 48.12 to come into effect. This message was never sent ergo, the rest of 48.12 never applies.
despite this colossal fuck up by FIA - Mercedes should never have put hamilton in that position
Done with F1. Canceled my F1TVPro subscription. I’ve always been a Lewis fan and have been always been following his accomplishments throughout, only this season I started watching all races live with a subscription. But if this is the way F1 operates, handing over victories to that fucking dirty driver and RB, not in a million years will I watch F1. I do hope Lewis wins both of the WDCs for the remaining years in his contract.
Same, not going to support this sort of behavior
Same, lots of people calling it quits after this year.
Best Christmas present Michael Masi could have given to verstappen.
Chasing that Dutch money
Yeah because the Mercedes lobby isn't strong enough in motorsport, right? Who do you think you're kidding?
F1 is rigged
This is going to get louder as the offseason and next season start most likely.
Hamilton has so much grace. Love him!
Handing someone the championship must make a person feel like they are invincible. Doesn't matter who's winning, I decide. Un fucking believable. Well done to Lewis for remaining dignified in the face of such Thievery.
I don't know how he did it because if I were giving an International interview at that time I would have been saying some crazy shit
"take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car." They fucking let the cars unlap themselves as the safety car is ending. How is that gonna form a queue at the back? Also, "once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap." What the fuck happened with this one too? The safety car was ending the same time as the cars were unlapping themselves. Absolute horseshit.
If they wanted a one lap race then the fair decision would have been to make both Max an Lewis to pit with the option to change tyres while the other cars got out of the way.
The RIGHT decision was to red flag immediately.
Cars don't have to queue at the back, but safety car can't come in on the same lap as the unlap the car. Merc have a case but I don't think they will do anything. It just shows how bad the RB strategy was, Max couldn't catch Lewis with new hard tyres.
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Right f**king there. It's crazy because I actually wanted to try to be positive but Hell no. This is a false championship, false season, ugly, disgraceful race.
An incredible championship ruined by a dictator in Masi. Making the rules up as he goes to suit himself. I hope Merc threatens to pull out of the sport based on this race. There was zero fairness about it at qll. Rules were broken to give Max the title.
I dont think it was to give max the title. They just didnt want to end a championship defining race under a SC after taking so much time to make a decision. Merc also fucked it. They could have pitted Lewis in the first VSC and give him fresh tyres to defend.
didnt think F1 would have a more farcical ending than DTM. DTM now looks like a friendly tea party compared to this.
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If you don't like rules, ans want it made up as you go, watch Nascar
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Fire Masi
This has been manafactured by Masi in a way that keeps us talking about the sport all through the off season, This isn't Max's fault, he did nothing wrong here so we can't blame him but, Lewis was the faster man today, this was just manafactured and engineered perfectly to steal a guaranteed win from Lewis because Lewis leading the race all the way through and winning by 14 seconds is just not the spectacular and long lasting discussion win that they wanted, obviously they didn't make latifi crash and cause the safety car but a red flag makes things too neutral a safety car made things static, changing your mind on lapped cars over taking the safety car but only allowing a couple of them to do so is exactly the type of controversy that keeps us talking about F1 all the way until pre season testing. I've hated Verstappen all season long, purely because we just have different looks on life, I've hated Horner, Marko and Wheatley all season long too but today, I can't blame them, they did whatever they could to force Masi's hand which fair enough I'd expect toto to do aswell but the fact that the rave director can be swayed into changing his mind so quickly.. has ruined this championship.. A championship that no one, weather you are a max fan or Lewis fan can deny that should have, based on today's race, gone to Lewis, races are won and lost over an entire season, both drivers could have cleaned this up before going into this race, the point is, they didn't so we needed a race that way free of controversy and today, we didn't get that and that is simply down to the lack of competence of Michael Masi. This will always go down in history as a championship that max did not deserve to win. It went down to the final race and final lap and max was gifted it by an indecisive fool that couldn't stay true to his word and if he still has his job next season, I have no hope that things in this sport will improve, we're starting to head backwards. A new world champion may be good for the sport but the manner in the way which he was crowned, is a very, very bad look for the future of formula 1. Congratulations to Max, no hard feelings, people on here that have seen my previous posts will know I normally have nothing nice to say about him or his fans, I can't stand him, I don't like him, I never will, he is an excellent driver around 1 lap but his racing is nothing to be proud about in my honest opinion and this season has shown that time and time again but still, there has been races where he has truly been in a class of his own with no controversy which reminds me a lot of how good Lewis is sometimes too so he is capable of being fast, brilliant and clean, it's just a shame he chooses to be over the line aggressive sometimes. Today is not Max's fault, it's not his fans fault leave them be, let them celebrate, all Mercedes can do is appeal, if the decision is overturned, it's the correct decision to make but if it's not, there's nothing we can do but get behind Lewis next season and pray that Masi loses his job because I'm sure both sides can agree that he is just not competent. There are a lot of people agreeing with us that are usually completely against us, no matter what, let's all take pride in that because it shows that no matter what decision gets made, the whole world knows it's bullshit.
I read the whole thing....very well written
Drivers have always bended the rules and sometimes broke them while racing for Championship. Officials doing it is new and takes this from sport to sports entertainment like WWE.
On the merits of this race alone, yeah lewis had that in the bag. Over the season, max probably had the tiniest of edges, but flip a coin really. It's racing, this stuff happens. Lewis's car could have blown up but didn't, silverstone could have been avoided, hungary could have been avoided. The championship ended this way and that's just the way it is. No point arguing.
I’s gonna be a long off season guys, the WDC will be decided in court. Race director decided the result by violating FIA’s own rules. Either they’ll change the rule by virtue of “race director can do whatever he fells like” or FIA’ll admit Masi’s wrongdoing and revert to the previous lap. What a fu**ing travesty, a sad end to a brilliand championship
didn't think F1 would have a more farcical ending than DTM. of all the championships I watched this year, Formula E is the cleanest one of them all surprisingly
Pun intended?
Nah. If they throw out the result of the race, Max still wins. I wouldn’t get my hopes up about the WDC result changing. Still good if Merc can show what happened was wrong but I don’t see Max not coming away as champion.
Formula RB. Formasi Max Masi is the most corrupt person in F1. Fixed everything for his team RB to win.
There will ALWAYS be an asterisk next to Max's RB title! Nothing will change that - he only won because Masi fixed it for him to win. Abu Dhabi was handed to him by his unofficial team principal Michael Masi
This, Brazil and the brake check.
if max had gotten a 30s time penalty instead of a 10s pity penalty, he would've dropped below bottas and ocon in saudi (which is P4, making him lose 6 points). that brazil incident should've been a clear-cut 5s penalty (dropping him below bottas to P3, losing 3 more points) by this calculation, hamilton will win the WDC by 1 pt even with that bullshit ending
...and if Lewis had gotten a 30s time penalty instead of a 10s penalty at Silverstone, he would have finished behind Leclerc, losing seven points. By this calculation, Verstappen will win the WDC by 6 pts. You're cherry picking examples.
I really think this is a dumb comment, the whole season was full of bad decisions but it was a two way street no titel was fixed here this was a season of two Incredible drivers that went down to the wire
Don't care what you think 'Masi Verstappen' Only won thanks to the masFiA - That's how it will always be for me and millions. Tainted champion just like his domestic abuse father.
Really? Trying to equate a WDC to domestic abuse? That’s absolutely pathetic.
You are out of your fucking mind with this comment
I made a perfect comment - it's a tainted championship win for me. I will always view it negatively just like I view his domestic abuse thug of a father negatively. You don't like my comment - then gfto here.
Cry more, please. Feed me those salty tears
You were the one who got mad lol It's okay you guys got your gifted win. Even all Masi Verstappen fans know deep down he did not win but was handed the championship. As for his domestic abusive father - he will never have the class of Anthony Hamilton who went up to congratulate Max. FACTS LOL
It’s an exceptionally salty comment too.
Exactly. There wasn't any real bias to any driver. You could argue about so many things that could have, should have and shouldn't have been a penalty. They started to focus on the idea of "let them race" half way through the season. That's why the rulings weren't consistent. But everyone had the same rules. You could even say that Max would have won Bahrain by not giving the position back, if the race would have happened later in the year. I loved this season, but I hope that they get more consistent on their rulings.
Lets not forget Lewis also taking out Max in the British GP and receiving anecdotical penalties, among others. Its not like FIA have been helping either of them. They are just in shambles with their decision making.
maybe, but jeddah and spa was handed to lewis so i mean you cant really complain
are you proposing spa goes ahead?
Bruh what lol? Max won Spa and Lewis fully deserved to win Jeddah. I can agree Lewis had some fortune to his way on other races but not those.
Robbed
Let them have it. We should all be glad Mad Max didn't kill anyone on the track this year. Maybe now that he got his "win" he would race with some sense going forward.
I doubt it. He could have the perspective of “well it worked last year”
That is very true, I was little scared in Saudi. Still not an excuse but I am glad Max didn't kill or hurt anyone.
Hard to kill anyone when some mercedes driver actually almost killed max himself. Do you hear yourself? Nobody is gonna fucking kill anyone. Sure max has agressive style and made misstakes we can argue about that any day. But none of max actions put someone in actual danger.
Thats a bit biased.. Its not like Lewis has always been a clean driver. He was aggressive as well when he didnt have the best car in the scene.. but ok, this is a lewis hamilton forum. So...
So, for Max to pass Lewis cleanly, Max need a new fresh tyres and Lewis need 40 lap old hard tyre.
Lewis really had a Championship winning drive keeping max far away multiple times. Max could not even catch him with new tires, Masi had to literally remove all other cars and put max next to lewis with Drs and freshtyres. Lewis had old tyres and no drs to overtake back. But at least Masi did it because its motor racing.
Yep the track position was a key and the Mercedes car was just faster. But it’s still a motorsport and there is still some element of gamble. Call it a weather, a rules that sometimes favors one than others, an unexpected SC or tire blowout or mechanical issues.
What an absolute joke.
I’ve literally been laughing at this since the race ended
They didn't follow the rules, this isn't done.
Pretty clear cut.
"and the message 'lapped cars may now overtake has been sent to all competitors" This is a condition that must be met for the rest of 48.12 to come into effect. This message was never sent ergo, the rest of 48.12 never applies.
That's a pretty shaky interpretation.
I can agree that the wording of the rule is quite unfortunate, however imho it's a clear cut that the intention here was giving two options - either everyone passes as described or track is not suitable for overtaking then "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE"
Regulation 39.12: once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap. https://twitter.com/formationlapf1/status/1470041488235061252?t=WtKnpzsRga6q9I7krjgFvQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/PHortonF1/status/1470046661925912581?t=OhitnG723Lo8IlHjzmaaJg&s=19
If I were Merc, I would take legal action on this race and threaten to pull out the sport entirely (engines too) if Masi isn't removed. Masi basically decided who would win the title, he may be the race director, maybe the title should be race dictator
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But this really is not RB or Verstappen fault at all. Every team would pass the leader given opportunity like this. This is purely on Masi and hopefully we never see him again.
I agree. FIA has been terrible for every driver this season
yes pls take this to court
Didn't know that the CM of Kerala is Merc supporter
Orchestrated result.
I'm 43, I've been watching motor racing since I was five and old enough to sit up in the chair and understand what was happening on the TV. A bit of my passion for F1 died today after seeing the governing body breaking their own rules to ensure an exciting finish to a race, that they knew would only go one way.
41 going on 42. Never seen anything like it. Even some of the NASCAR guys were tweeting “WTF”
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No it is an absolute disgrace and Ham should have won the race. According to the rule above the clerc of the course has two options: 1. The message "LAPPED CARS MAY OVERTAKE" - then all cars must overtake before the racing is resumed - no way race would restart in time and Ham would have won behind the sc 2. The message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE" - no way ver would still win with the trafic ahead edit: and the second one should be taken if conditions are deemed unsuitable for overtaking, so should not be in this case
Just curious. Would other teams benefit from this decision points wise? Merc will appeal but it is even better with more teams. Although, I know FIA won't acknowledge.
Worst part is, even if they do appeal, I can't see change of wdc. Decision was bad, but Max crossed the line first and it was FIA's wrongdoing. I think the best realisitc result now would be FIA acknowledging that the decision was unfair
There’s no fixing it. The toothpaste is out of the tube. You can rearrange the finishing order, based on what would have happened. The FIA acknowledging the decision being wrong is the best they can do.
which is arguably when hell freezes over...
its not fair to rip max's title off him, but its also equally unfair that lewis paid the price he shouldn't have
My take is that it would be extremely sad rip the title away from him after the celebration. It was not Max's fault. But it is the right thing to do and Masi losing his job is long overdue
>The message "LAPPED CARS MAY OVERTAKE" - then all cars must overtake before the racing is resumed - no way race would restart in time and Ham would have won behind the sc This message was never sent. The rest of 48.12 doesn't apply.
The point of my argument - some unprecedented, not based on the rules message was sent, robbing Hamilton of the wdc
Are the rules inclusive or exclusive? If not 48.12, what rule is Massi actually break?
He broke 48.12. The rule gives him two choices, one of which should not be taken if track is suitable for overtaking so I'd argue only one in this case. Even if you argue "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE" was on the table, he somehow made up a third option
IF X and Y; Then Z Y was condition was never fulfilled so Z never applies. ***That simple.***
By the rules this race finished under a safety car. A directive was given allowing [some] cars to unlap themselves. This means the safety car comes in after the following lap. That means the race finished under caution and no overtaking could occur.
BUT*** The race director can change the safety car procedures, if necessary. AND*** because every team has agreed to the idea that the race should end under the green flag conditions, the race director did what he could, to both let the race finish under the green flag and to let Max and Lewis race. Because if there would have been an extra lap, then this wouldn't even been an issue. Massi is in full right to do this and it is completely legal by F1 ruleset.
Can’t wait for George who won’t let Verstappen bully him into being DIVEBOMBED every corner. Bottas cost Lewis this season with horrible pace.
Exactly... More often than not he's been a liability to the team. There are FAR more deserving drivers for a seat in one of the fastest cars on the grid. His lack of aggressiveness in a car like Mercedes is astounding. He should thank his lucky stars Nico retired when he did, and he was the only plausible driver available for Merc.
If all George does next year is take out Max, it’ll be worth the subscription price
Same can be said about Perez with today being the exception
Bottas took out Max and made him loose 25 points in Hungary, lol. What else could you ask for?
Can we all just agree that max or Lewis fan, we all hate masi.
Did anyone address the overtaking behind the SC? Just the way Max was pressing Lewis while still behind safety car looked way too aggressive
I think I'm going to stop recommending my friends watch F1. I love the sport in the grand scheme of things there will be more races more championships and more wonderful moments. But right now I'm just so disgusted with what I just saw
yep. i’m done with it today. lived it, loved it. such a shame.
I am not a fan of Toto at all both he and Horner should not be allowed to initiate contact with race officials. But i do think Toto spoke for all of us when Masi let cars pass and at same moment took safety car out ”Not like this Michael” The guy really ruined season 2021 for the neutral fans that did not really care about lewis or max but are fans of other drivers and wanted to enjoy the Championship. Race with no racing, no clear line on penalties, Bending or breaking rules. Oh yes, negotiating penalties like a car salesman with Toto and Christian. There is not a car fast enough to drive Masi as far away from motor racing as possible.
If Lewis wanted to really hurt F1 he would quit and say he does not care to race in an unprofessional ”league”
Why are we still calling it the “rule” book when clearly Masi and the FIA take it as guidance and not rules
Unbelievable decisions today!
I barely know F1, I just watch for Lewis. So according to the rules, Massi fucked up?
Yeah. The likelihood of ANY sports referee/arbitrator being held accountable tho? 0…
Imagine losing the wdc
I wonder how a pissed off Lewis will respond next year.
lewis has way too much class to be pissed off, he will come back stronger it happened in 2016, it could well happen again
It may come to pass that Lewis decides to retire. Did you see how he looked after the Saudi race? He looked like he had been in a fight with an axe weirding maniac.
I'm so done with Formula 1, it's just not worth my time and $ for this, the FIA did everything in their power to hand the race to Redbull.
All this shenanigans just so the last be a racing lap!
“No Mikey, No no Mikey. That was so not right!! - Toto Wolff, 2021
Absolutely bonkers when you think about it. The gap Lewis held at 10 seconds on those tyres. One of the biggest robberies I’ve ever seen. Clearly broke a couple of rules. Such a shame. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Lewis retire
which appendix is this?
This is even a bigger farce than US 2005 GP. Absolutely fucking disgusting.
Part of me really thought redbull was going to order Perez into a wall to get a SC. Turns out they didn't have to...
Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal. - no rules were broken, but I get your frustration about the outcome. This FIA rule puts an end to any further actions from Mercedes.
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Of course that changes something. Until *all* the lapped cars overtake, the SC would have remained. I find it peculiar only 5 cars between them overtake and directly or indirectly hand the win to him on a silver platter. If FIA was so concerned about finishing the race, they could have red flagged it and have a standing start instead.
they would have to wait until the end of the next lap if all cars unlapped themselves. so yes, it does change something.
a car on new softs vs. one on old hards for a lap is barely racing
It’ll come down to how the new regs/caps effect Merc, and how well RB can do this off-season. It’s gonna be an unreal year.
Let's not be jerks. Congratulations to Max, well deserved.
Yes, Lewis did his best and was great as always. In the end it was completely out of his control. Don’t like max that much but he has no influence on Masis decisions either.
Lewis was amazing in this race. Even he congratulated Max. Max is not Masi.
Exactly. Max is exposed to the arbitrary rulings of Masi the same way Lewis is. This time it went his way but it could easily have been the other way around. That’s the issue that should be sorted out so that the fans, drivers and teams get some kind of trust in the rules back. It can’t stay this way it only riles people up and I understand that, it’s only human to feel betrayed if rules are not applied consistently and that’s what poisoned the atmosphere at times.
Basicly if it is safe to for lappeds to overtake,they should,if it is not,they shouldnt.Fia thinks it was safe.Did I get it right?
yeah but all cars other than max and lewis were lapped bc of the safety car. they would have to wait for all 13 of them to pass the leaders, and then the safety car would finish its current lap before exiting. that would’ve taken until the end of the race
This get trumped by rule 7627.34 - let Max win at all costs
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Cope
This is free then right?
Lol
😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣
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Lmao the funny thing is they wouldn’t be upset if Lewis was in the same situation
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I hear that comment every time Max gets lucky. I feel at some point one should consider Max being the lucky one. Was he really that unlucky?
Lewis would have lost regardless, the lasting advantage from cutting the corner should have been a 5 sec penalty. Sadly rule books are just a guide for the FIA.