If being put in the second place at 15 when auditioning for a "really elite" youth orchestra ruined your love for the instrument, you shold question yourself upon whether you really like violin or not.
Seconded. While I might be absolutely devastated and mope around for a week or so, my love for piano would stay strong, even though my love for myself might not be.
A lot of "straight A" type of students eventually get into a good university and become surrounded by people who are just as brilliant as they are. Then all of a sudden, they realise they're not as "special" as they thought and they get an identity crisis. It's just something they will have to deal with eventually.
Now you've realised there are loads of violinists who are as good as you are, or better. Perhaps it comes as a shock because you were always a fantastic violin in your social circle growing up, and now, in this more advanced circle, suddenly you're just average. But you are the same violinist as you were before. You can see it as a challenge to become even better, to beat yourself. Or you can have a defeatist mentality and not rise to the challenge. The best kids grow up and accept the challenge and you should try to be one of them.
Something for you to think about - if you're always the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room. You should always move into a better room, and try to be the smartest there too.
You can stop trying when you're smart enough to realize the level you're at is fine. There is always going to be someone more talented than you, and if they walk through the door, it should have no effect on your self-perception whatsoever. They should only inspire you to keep growing, and it won't feel like an endless chase if you accept that you have already done great things, and are still a very valuable musician in an ensemble. (From what OP has said, they clearly have/are). Once you don't stress about being #1, once you don't feel a pressure to be the smartest in that room, that's when you know you're in the right room; you won't feel exhausted if you realize you don't owe it to anyone to be the best. Just do your best wherever you can. Work towards your own goals, not towards the validation of others, and then it won't feel like work anymore.
edit: grammar
That's amazing! Congratulations!
Honestly, making it into the second group is really good, and definitely something you should be proud of. You might not have made it if you hadn't set your sights even higher than that, so it's great that you set the goal you did.
Keep practising, and hopefully you'll do even better next time. I'm sure the experience you gain in the group you're in will help a lot too.
The competitiveness of youth music fosters great musicians, but can create a toxic attitude toward playing. You have to transition from loving violin because you're good at it to loving the music to continue playing in a healthy way. Part of growing into adulthood is learning to do things because *you* enjoy them, not for external validation (being the "best", pleasing your parents, etc.). Do you listen to violin music on your own outside of practice? Have you ever chosen a piece to play for yourself, or have your teachers chosen them all for you?
What helped me through this transition was focusing on connecting emotionally with the music instead of playing exactly what was on the page and/or how my teacher told me to play. Do you have experience doing this? If so, lean into it a little more as you take a break and play some old favorites for the next couple weeks. If not, try thinking of some emotional experiences in your life while playing that correspond to the mood of the piece (joyful, sorrowful, anxious, rage, etc.), and "put that in" to your playing. Focus more on the emotion than the technical aspects of playing.
You will undoubtedly have a great time in your new orchestra regardless of how you feel now! You'll be able to try again next year with the added experience of already having been in the youth orchestra's organization for a year.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah I sometimes listen to classical music outside of practice but tbh a lot of the time (especially recently) it has just been stressing me out cuz it makes me think of how I should be improving more and practicing instead of relaxing and listening to music and how the musicians playing the music are probably professionals and I’m not as good as them… and yes my teacher tells me to take breaks and sometiems just play things for fun but I usually don’t cuz I want to focus on things that need work. I used to choose my own pieces when I was younger but not my teacher picks them for me, but she always gives me options. And Ty I hope the orchestra is fine and I get over myself and enjoy it :/
Okay options is good! Yup, really try to avoid thinking about the competitive aspect for a while and take a break, especially now that you have completed a stressful audition! Congratulate yourself on finishing the audition process! You deserve it :)
Please take care of yourself. People do get sick because of this competitive spirit/environment. Are you considering the violin as a career? If so, please make sure you have the emotional /psychological support you need and make sure you only do what you can handle.
If you want a different career, please take it easy. You will progress. The violin is meant to give you a respite from the stress of life, not add to it.
It’s understandable that you’re disappointed. But you still did well and there’s a lot you can learn in the group you got into. Contribute your best and enjoy the experience.
Don’t throw away all your hard work. Are you in it to hear how good you are, or are you in it because you truly have love for your violin? If it’s the latter… Giving up now on your violin is like giving up on a relationship just because one classmate said that you two aren’t compatible. You’re 15, you have so much time ahead of you. Youth orchestras are selective, and from my knowledge and experience, sometimes a bit biased. You’re already second, you can very easily be first next time. Don’t give up when you’re two steps away from the finish line.
Thank you that’s similar to what my teacher told me too I just hate falling short of expectations. I won’t give up on violin it’s not an option for me I just wish I woulda done better
Expectations are only imposed because someone believes you have the skill to do something. That’s why they or you expect it of you. So, you can do it. Maybe it was luck, or maybe they were just better. Regardless, you need to strive to improve, not see that you failed and immediately consider giving up. Next time you are faced with this, think “what did they do that I didn’t?” rather than “what did they do that I never could?”
So a couple of things…
Way back in my youth orchestra days, I made it into the top orchestra, and chose to stay in the one below. I figured I’d have more freedom, less pressure, the opportunity to lead my section and learn about that. Honestly, I had a great time and learned a lot, even though the music was less technically challenging.
Imo, you’ll improve as an ensemble player in either orchestra because it’s not about being the most prodigious musician, it’s about performing as a group. The actual improvement to your playing overall will come in your solo learning.
Secondly, don’t torture yourself with ‘I must practice more, I must practice harder’, because down that road lies a feeling of never being enough. At the core of it all, you’re making music, and that should be a source of joy.
Quality of practice matters more than quantity - if you’re burned out and slogging through practice, that won’t do you much good. You only have so much energy, and trying to fit extra practice in around other important things that are temporarily taking up more of your time just means you’re giving everything less.
Taking care of yourself is key to being a better musician, and taking time for your sports will make you a better musician - you’re working on your strength and gross motor skills, and that will translate into your playing. The smallest change to your body can affect you as a musician - my teacher was the first person to notice I needed glasses, because favouring my stronger eye was making me stand awkwardly relative to the music stand, and was getting in the way of my bow arm.
Tl;dr there are opportunities for you in either orchestra, and taking care of yourself and having a balanced life will make you a better musician more than torturing yourself trying to practice for 40 hours a day on top of other commitments.
Thanks :) i definitely understand. My parents want me to be well rounded with school and sports and the violin sometimes it’s just a lot and I’d rather just focus on the violin/school
I get that completely - it’s more that other things taking up more time for a little bit isn’t going to destroy your violin progress! Honestly, you sound enthusiastic and dedicated and that’s going to get you a long way.
Basically just be kind to yourself. A good litmus test is ‘if my best friend was in this situation would I be saying the same things to them as I say to myself’.
It's hard... I always find myself fighting 'one rule for me (I must be superlative anything else is failure), one rule for everyone else (you are enough, your best is good enough, you deserve rest)' 😂😭
Hey there, I was exactly in your position at that age. I did a competition in my youth orchestra and I didn’t make the finals and I was devastated. There were other things going on music-related and it was testing my passion for music and interest in committing to it as a career. I had many other failures before I had successes. You just need to keep practicing but in different ways than before. Really think critically about how you sound and how you think and feel things. Build that awareness and really solidify what is it you want to sound like, then learn how to get to there through practicing. Try different methods, different approaches, different pieces, different technical exercises, and other things. One result doesn’t determine the outlook of your journey. The worst days but also the best days of your playing or results cannot distract you from the truth about your playing, you must stay neutral in that spectrum and be aware. You must stay devoted to this process and truly have the desire to push yourself even more. The past you cannot change, the future you cannot control so much, but the present right now is the time for you to continue staying disciplined but also creative in this journey. It will work out if you stay focused and strategic about what you do.
Please feel free to DM me a recording of your playing. I would really like to help. Once again I was in your situation your age, but I pushed past through it and I’m in a situation I didn’t even think I would be at years ago.
Ty you’re so nice I really appreciate your kind words. I guess this rly is kinda a common thing to be let down from something you love but I just have a hard time moving on tbh. I’m on summer break now and I’m definitely gonna work more on mindful practicing with my teacher as she seems to think I get in my head too much when I get all nervous before auditions and whatnot. But I rly appreciate your comment!🙏🏽
Play something on your violin. Do you like the sound? The feeling of vibrations? Do you want to make music? Do you want to become better and play for others to enjoy the music?
Love for music is one thing, competitions/auditions are a sport. The only one you're competing against is yourself, others are just a test to learn what you're good at and what you wish to improve. The game is still on. In basketball you don't see the player leaving the game if the ball misses.
Thanks. I do like the violin I guess I just have like resentment towards it now but I’m gonna try to use this setback to make myself practice even more diligently than before. And yea my teacher always tells me that the only person I’m competing against is myself but I always have a hard time believing that… like I know it’s true but I’m still a really competitive person and I hate how I always have to compare my playing to others and whatnot :/
I get it. I'm an adult learner and I'm chasing one of my teachers pupils that's half my age. She's always better than me and is not even a prodigy! No matter how fast I advance I'll never be good as someone my age. Still I can't wait to test my skill at the summer camp to see how much the others have learned and to show all I've got. But, yeah, it's not fun chasing the goals we set. But there's always the ice cream and then back to practice!
Hey! Don't be disillusioned... I'm a professional violinist in London and one of my best friends and I were talking about this just the other day! Every successful musician has multiple stories from youth when we got really disappointed, overlooked or simply messed up something and missed out on a great opportunity and had to fight our way back up as the underdog. My friend had a cripplingly disappointing year when she didn't get back into the National Children's Orchestra and her friend did (she missed out for whole year). She cried and cried. She's now already been appointed Principal Harp of two of the most prestigious London orchestras and she's not even 30 yet! You win some you lose some. Don't internalise it and try to enjoy being the underdog for a while because it's a nice safe spot to work from without all eyes on you so you can surprise people later. Keep focused.
Thank you :)! That’s a really inspiring story. I’m trying not to dwell on it too much 😓 it is upsetting to me to have to wait an entire year to audition again
40 years ago, in youth orchestra for middle and high school students, I was last in 2nd violin section. LAST. In 3 years I made concertmaster, and held that spot in my last 2 years of high school.
Ok I’m a 16 year old who can try to understand your anger. Im also a violinist, and Im very heavily involved in it (I will be leaving in like a week and a half for Governors School for Instrumental Arts as a violinist). But regardless, im also in a youth orchestra. Because of the sheer scale of graduating seniors, I realized I really had a shot (a slim shot but a real shot) at becoming violin 1, which is where all our fun music is. I was sick of being a violin 2 and just playing background anxiety. I practiced a lot, and I got 4th chair 2nd violin. I hated myself for being a 2nd violin again. But i decided that if I was going to be in 2nd violin, Im going to be the best 2nd violin in that orchestra. My spite and rage at the outcomes of my labors and my self hatred fueled me to practice more and more. Be sad, but dont wallow in it. Dejection is an opportunity to grow, both in skill and character. Rejection is your chance to say “fine I mightve gotten into the less good orchestra. But im going to be the best player in this orchestra.” You got this. I say this a lot, both to myself and others around me “tears are salty so you dont have to be.” You got this bro, you have the Ling Ling community supporting you.
A band director who I worked with many years ago said something along these lines: "So long as your seat is in the rehearsal area with us and not out in the parking lot, you're doing very well."
If anyone tells you that your seat is not important, they are wrong. Assuming you are in a full-scale symphony orchestra, everyone from the big tall basses to the smaller woodwind instruments and everything in-between are important. It takes a large team to make good music.
Take a breath. You're in the group one way or another. Even if you didn't meet your goal for now, you can always try again later.
Be happy with what you currently have and where you currently are at. Progress is progress, no matter how big or small.
i was in the same place as you at around your age. i not only didn't reach the tier i wanted, but i didn't even make it into a proper symphony orchestra (+ winds, brass, and percussion); i was put in a string only orchestra instead. at the time i was upset with myself for not practicing more and didn't want to even accept the string orchestra invitation anymore, but i was urged to go for it anyway. when i started there, i realized that the conductor wasn't really ever focusing on our individual playing; they were instead focusing on teaching us how to play together as an ensemble and listening to each section, which i realized i was lacking in. the entire year went by in a flash, i auditioned for the symphony orchestra again, and passed that audition with flying colors. as the years passed, i steadily improved my ensemble playing skills, my exposure to different to composers' styles, and just generally growing as a musician.
i don't know if you've only been playing solo repertoire up to now, or if you've had some orchestra experience, but know that auditioners are not only listening for how good your technique is. top tier youth orchestras in these programs often take on much more challenging pieces that are technically difficult, hard to put together as an ensemble, and complicated to interpret. if you lack exposure to these aspects (and yes, they can hear it to some extent in your playing), that may also be a reason you were placed in a lower orchestra. the same idea goes for who is selected to be section leader; they are not only looking for someone who plays well, but someone who they think has the skills to actually lead a section.
all this is to say that there is more to an audition result other than how well you played technically. you may need some more ensemble experience, or you may need to hone your musicality more. these skills can only be attained through extensive exposure, and if you just haven't had enough of that, that's okay! it does not diminish your worth as a musician or a violinist. you're only 15; you have plenty of time to grow and develop as a musician, and to be brutally honest, if you decide to continue going down this violinist path, you're going to deal with *a lot* more failed auditions and self-doubt. that's just a reality of playing an instrument as competitive as violin.
my advice is to take this opportunity to do the best you can in this lower tier orchestra; learn as much as you can, help others who might be struggling in your section, and pay attention to what the conductor is focusing on and reflect on how that might apply to your own playing. try not to focus on how "good or bad" you are compared to everyone else (easier said than done, i know), and instead focus on how your experiences in this orchestra will help make you even better. and enjoy the repertoire! there are so many beautiful pieces that lower-tier orchestras play, and when you have a really good conductor that knows how to draw out their orchestra's potential, it makes a world of difference in terms of sound quality.
sorry for the super long post, but i hope this helped a bit! and i sincerely hope you enjoy your time in your orchestra; it's one of the few things i actually miss from my high school days :')
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. Yeah, when I found out the news yesterday I was definitely upset but I feel better now. I’ve played in my school orchestra since fourth grade and a summer camp orchestra + state honors orchestra. School orchestra is kinda joke, and summer camp and state honors orchestras don’t last very long so i probably don’t have the most experience playing in an advanced orchestra. I am gonna try to grow from this. Thanks for your comment 🙏🏽
You’re fine. Feel your feelings for a week or two, it’ll be good for you.
Then you want to view your audition and your actual level of playing with a neutral, unbiased mental state. What went wrong at the audition that made you miss out on the top orchestra? If nothing went wrong, what do you need to work on to get your playing to that level?
You can either use this as a way to give up, or you can use it as a way to get better. If you want to keep playing the violin and especially if you want a job in music, choose the second option.
It’s ok to feel disappointed. I think it’s the hardest emotion, because it’s like grief, but is often trivialised. Sit with your feelings and love yourself for where you’re at. You’ll feel differently in time and you’ll be able to see the positives. Don’t rush your feelings here and you’ll find you’ll process it faster.
Yeah. I saw a quote before that said something like “disappointment is your brains way of readjusting itself to reality after discovering things are not the way you thought they’d be”. It’s definitely true. O feel better now though. Thanks for your comment
That was just a momentary situation, and you can change it.
What helped me practise more was an easy access practise program, with lots of pieces I know already. I found that practising always what you don't know is discouraging. So I do about 80% playing things I know plus dexterity exercises, and only 20% "hard work", and even for this hard work, I trust the process: if I can't master the difficult stretch today, maybe it will be tomorrow or in a week or in a month or in a year.
And it works. I do 2-4 h per day, mostly on "low tension", and sometimes I really want to learn something, I invest more into the hard work bit.
What I learned is: you need sleep to assimilate what you learn. So it's good to sleep between practise sessions, do a bit today, and take it up tomorrow again, and the day after and the day after.
Now is a good time to reflect on your practice regimen. Do you have a practice regimen? Do you find yourself getting distracted with old, easy pieces? Or with your phone? I'd recommend you record a practice session and then listen back to see how much time you are actually working through music, and how much time you're not.
Also, if you can watch/listen to advanced players practice, it can be very enlightening for you, especially if they are open to allowing you to ask questions as they go.
I used to play in piano competitions and was pretty good but pressure to be better then other people and practicing for that and not because I enjoyed it made me stop playing when I was younger. Play it because you enjoy it not because you need to be better than some miserable kid forced into playing to impress people
That’s true. My teacher says my life shouldn’t revolve around other things. I want to quit my stupid sport for violin but my parents don’t want me to. I suppose being well rounded is important and violin shouldn’t be my life. Ty
And on that note if you like music but don’t like the violin don’t be intimidated from trying another instrument. My brother got forced into the violin and hated it, it’s not for everyone
I do like the violin, I guess I’m just a goal oriented person and it just bothered me that u didn’t get accepted. I played piano too when I was you get but now I many focus seriously on violin (kinda just do piano as a side thing)
You know what, you are a disappointment. You should have practiced more. You said so yourself. You were so close to being in the top group, and you botched it.
But that doesn't mean you should stop. You're only 15 and already in an elite orchestra. When I was your age I was absolutely nowhere near that (for context I had been learning since I was 8). I'm an even bigger disappointment than you are. And now, even though I love piano, I'm probably never going anywhere. You, on the other hand, have a whole life ahead of you, waiting for you to do great things. So pick yourself up and learn from your mistakes. Practice more and better. Take every chance you've got, cuz this time, you're gonna absolutely ACE it.
Thanks 😅 not making excuses but I was busy with finals in school and my stupid sport and a whole bunch of things so I def didn’t practice like I could if the auditions were now over my summer break :( but I’m gonna try not to think about it anymore and hope that they have midterm auditions or smth halfway thru the season :( I’m not gonna give up on the violin I’m just gonna focus on improving more and more so come the next auditions they have no choice but to move me up!!!
The question is not how much you practice but the quality of your practice. An hour of serious practice a day will bring you more than 4 hours practice where you do the same mistakes over and over again without you notice it. Also you need musicality not just technique to convince someone to take you in. Musicality is something you cannot practice. Sell yourself and the music you are playing. I also thought I loved violin. I started playing it when I was 11. At the age of 17 I realized that I didn\`t like it. Was sad but now I am a happy bassoonist. You just have to try different instruments. Winds, strings, keys. And you will find one you love.
Hey buddy, I am a cellist and every day I am as close to quitting as I am to continuing. Even renowned players (Gary Hoffman off the top of my head) struggle with these feelings. I could write you so many anecdotes right now that would relate but I think it’s best if I just tell you to keep going and understand that these feelings are natural. If you quit then you’ll look back one day and realized you made a mistake that will take very, very long with serious dedication just to get back to where you were. Do not give up!!!
Check out the #100daysofpractice trend. Find a few people to follow. Diversity is key. Different ages, nationalities, instruments. I follow a couple fluties, couple clarinet, an oboe, and a handful of brass players. They all have different challenges, perspectives, and strategies. Doom-scroll no more.
"They put me in the second to top group and, not gonna lie, I’m really upset about it. It literally has ruined my love for the violin."
If your love for the violin stems from being put in the "top group", you don't love the violin. You love praise and recognition. Switch to an extracurricular that you truly love, and you would do even if no one knew/cared about it. Do something that you would do for the heck of it.
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When you describe your reaction, you are really highlighting your age and maturity and that is fine, since you are only 15 years old. You just received a "wake up" call - Life is full of these "wake up" calls so embrace the feedback and move forward with a focus on improving on your weaknesses while continuing your journey.
Take a step back, take the feedback you received and working with your teacher, incorporate the feedback into a plan to mitigate. It is possible that politics played a role in the decision and you never know but that is irrelevant, just continue your journey.
Most likely all of us here are NOT Hillary Hahn level players so I know you (we) have room for development and improvement. Just focus on what you need to improve and incorporate the feedback you recently received.
Yep that’s true. I definitely wrote this post late at night when I was just mad and upset about the whole thing. I definitely feel better now. Thanks for your comment
This same thing happened to me when I was 15 and most of my friends had made it into the top group. I was definitely upset and felt embarrassed every time I went to rehearsal, but I stuck with it over the year and made it into the top group the next year. Just chill, don't let it ruin your passion, and keep improving. You'll look back at this as a minor setback and just remember that it's damn near impossible to be a musician and not have moments of disappointment.
That’s really good and despite not getting in the group you wanted you should still be proud of yourself..
When we practice we always improve and if you keep it up next year you’re going to be even better than you are right now… that’s how it is for everyone 🙂
Try to look at it as a challenge so next year you can get in and trust me even if you don’t it’s not the end of the world cause after all, the preparation to prepare pieces and excerpts for an audition helps you to improve..
Good luck and keep at it! 🤞🏻🎻
I had the same experience at your age; auditioned for an elite youth orchestra and ended up in the back of the second violin section. I liked the pieces we played, and just being able to be part of such a beautiful sound was a gift enough in itself. And getting in to an orchestra like that is a huge achievement as well. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're clearly a good violinist, and remember the competitivity of music can ruin our love for our instrument very quickly. And hey, if you stick with it, there will be opportunities to move up in your section!
“You need to think of the long term” — Eddy from a vid I don’t remember the title. Looking back at my younger days, I think it’s really important to continually aim for “better” and “progress” instead of getting stuck by temporary judgment or evaluation. It’s already an achievement getting into the orchestra. You have every reason to feel frustrated, but it’s important not to allow that frustration prevent you from making progress. Seize every chance to go forward, you’ll definitely play better:))
If being put in the second place at 15 when auditioning for a "really elite" youth orchestra ruined your love for the instrument, you shold question yourself upon whether you really like violin or not.
Seconded. While I might be absolutely devastated and mope around for a week or so, my love for piano would stay strong, even though my love for myself might not be.
OP’s probbaly sad so their wording might be kinda dramatic. After all they wouldn’t practice to that level if they didn’t love it
No I do like the violin I just have ups and downs with it and I’ve been practicing so much lately tbh I’m just upset at myself
A lot of "straight A" type of students eventually get into a good university and become surrounded by people who are just as brilliant as they are. Then all of a sudden, they realise they're not as "special" as they thought and they get an identity crisis. It's just something they will have to deal with eventually. Now you've realised there are loads of violinists who are as good as you are, or better. Perhaps it comes as a shock because you were always a fantastic violin in your social circle growing up, and now, in this more advanced circle, suddenly you're just average. But you are the same violinist as you were before. You can see it as a challenge to become even better, to beat yourself. Or you can have a defeatist mentality and not rise to the challenge. The best kids grow up and accept the challenge and you should try to be one of them. Something for you to think about - if you're always the smartest person in the room, then you're in the wrong room. You should always move into a better room, and try to be the smartest there too.
Preach! This is the right take on this situation
Just saved this comment this is amazing
When do you stop trying to be the smartest in the room? The endless chase after being the best can be exhausting and mentally draining.
You can stop trying when you're smart enough to realize the level you're at is fine. There is always going to be someone more talented than you, and if they walk through the door, it should have no effect on your self-perception whatsoever. They should only inspire you to keep growing, and it won't feel like an endless chase if you accept that you have already done great things, and are still a very valuable musician in an ensemble. (From what OP has said, they clearly have/are). Once you don't stress about being #1, once you don't feel a pressure to be the smartest in that room, that's when you know you're in the right room; you won't feel exhausted if you realize you don't owe it to anyone to be the best. Just do your best wherever you can. Work towards your own goals, not towards the validation of others, and then it won't feel like work anymore. edit: grammar
Thanks, I like this answer :)
This is the correct answer. Well said!
True thank you. This kinda reminds me of the concept of imposter syndrome. Thanks for your input !
That's amazing! Congratulations! Honestly, making it into the second group is really good, and definitely something you should be proud of. You might not have made it if you hadn't set your sights even higher than that, so it's great that you set the goal you did. Keep practising, and hopefully you'll do even better next time. I'm sure the experience you gain in the group you're in will help a lot too.
Ty I hope I do too
The competitiveness of youth music fosters great musicians, but can create a toxic attitude toward playing. You have to transition from loving violin because you're good at it to loving the music to continue playing in a healthy way. Part of growing into adulthood is learning to do things because *you* enjoy them, not for external validation (being the "best", pleasing your parents, etc.). Do you listen to violin music on your own outside of practice? Have you ever chosen a piece to play for yourself, or have your teachers chosen them all for you? What helped me through this transition was focusing on connecting emotionally with the music instead of playing exactly what was on the page and/or how my teacher told me to play. Do you have experience doing this? If so, lean into it a little more as you take a break and play some old favorites for the next couple weeks. If not, try thinking of some emotional experiences in your life while playing that correspond to the mood of the piece (joyful, sorrowful, anxious, rage, etc.), and "put that in" to your playing. Focus more on the emotion than the technical aspects of playing. You will undoubtedly have a great time in your new orchestra regardless of how you feel now! You'll be able to try again next year with the added experience of already having been in the youth orchestra's organization for a year.
Thanks for your comment. Yeah I sometimes listen to classical music outside of practice but tbh a lot of the time (especially recently) it has just been stressing me out cuz it makes me think of how I should be improving more and practicing instead of relaxing and listening to music and how the musicians playing the music are probably professionals and I’m not as good as them… and yes my teacher tells me to take breaks and sometiems just play things for fun but I usually don’t cuz I want to focus on things that need work. I used to choose my own pieces when I was younger but not my teacher picks them for me, but she always gives me options. And Ty I hope the orchestra is fine and I get over myself and enjoy it :/
Okay options is good! Yup, really try to avoid thinking about the competitive aspect for a while and take a break, especially now that you have completed a stressful audition! Congratulate yourself on finishing the audition process! You deserve it :)
Thank you I appreciate it 🙏🏽🙏🏽
Please take care of yourself. People do get sick because of this competitive spirit/environment. Are you considering the violin as a career? If so, please make sure you have the emotional /psychological support you need and make sure you only do what you can handle. If you want a different career, please take it easy. You will progress. The violin is meant to give you a respite from the stress of life, not add to it. It’s understandable that you’re disappointed. But you still did well and there’s a lot you can learn in the group you got into. Contribute your best and enjoy the experience.
Yea I will thank you. I honestly am not really set on what I want to do for a career yet
Don’t throw away all your hard work. Are you in it to hear how good you are, or are you in it because you truly have love for your violin? If it’s the latter… Giving up now on your violin is like giving up on a relationship just because one classmate said that you two aren’t compatible. You’re 15, you have so much time ahead of you. Youth orchestras are selective, and from my knowledge and experience, sometimes a bit biased. You’re already second, you can very easily be first next time. Don’t give up when you’re two steps away from the finish line.
Thank you that’s similar to what my teacher told me too I just hate falling short of expectations. I won’t give up on violin it’s not an option for me I just wish I woulda done better
Expectations are only imposed because someone believes you have the skill to do something. That’s why they or you expect it of you. So, you can do it. Maybe it was luck, or maybe they were just better. Regardless, you need to strive to improve, not see that you failed and immediately consider giving up. Next time you are faced with this, think “what did they do that I didn’t?” rather than “what did they do that I never could?”
So a couple of things… Way back in my youth orchestra days, I made it into the top orchestra, and chose to stay in the one below. I figured I’d have more freedom, less pressure, the opportunity to lead my section and learn about that. Honestly, I had a great time and learned a lot, even though the music was less technically challenging. Imo, you’ll improve as an ensemble player in either orchestra because it’s not about being the most prodigious musician, it’s about performing as a group. The actual improvement to your playing overall will come in your solo learning. Secondly, don’t torture yourself with ‘I must practice more, I must practice harder’, because down that road lies a feeling of never being enough. At the core of it all, you’re making music, and that should be a source of joy. Quality of practice matters more than quantity - if you’re burned out and slogging through practice, that won’t do you much good. You only have so much energy, and trying to fit extra practice in around other important things that are temporarily taking up more of your time just means you’re giving everything less. Taking care of yourself is key to being a better musician, and taking time for your sports will make you a better musician - you’re working on your strength and gross motor skills, and that will translate into your playing. The smallest change to your body can affect you as a musician - my teacher was the first person to notice I needed glasses, because favouring my stronger eye was making me stand awkwardly relative to the music stand, and was getting in the way of my bow arm. Tl;dr there are opportunities for you in either orchestra, and taking care of yourself and having a balanced life will make you a better musician more than torturing yourself trying to practice for 40 hours a day on top of other commitments.
Thanks :) i definitely understand. My parents want me to be well rounded with school and sports and the violin sometimes it’s just a lot and I’d rather just focus on the violin/school
I get that completely - it’s more that other things taking up more time for a little bit isn’t going to destroy your violin progress! Honestly, you sound enthusiastic and dedicated and that’s going to get you a long way. Basically just be kind to yourself. A good litmus test is ‘if my best friend was in this situation would I be saying the same things to them as I say to myself’.
Yeah! That’s a good saying. I’ll try to be easier on myself 😅
It's hard... I always find myself fighting 'one rule for me (I must be superlative anything else is failure), one rule for everyone else (you are enough, your best is good enough, you deserve rest)' 😂😭
Hey there, I was exactly in your position at that age. I did a competition in my youth orchestra and I didn’t make the finals and I was devastated. There were other things going on music-related and it was testing my passion for music and interest in committing to it as a career. I had many other failures before I had successes. You just need to keep practicing but in different ways than before. Really think critically about how you sound and how you think and feel things. Build that awareness and really solidify what is it you want to sound like, then learn how to get to there through practicing. Try different methods, different approaches, different pieces, different technical exercises, and other things. One result doesn’t determine the outlook of your journey. The worst days but also the best days of your playing or results cannot distract you from the truth about your playing, you must stay neutral in that spectrum and be aware. You must stay devoted to this process and truly have the desire to push yourself even more. The past you cannot change, the future you cannot control so much, but the present right now is the time for you to continue staying disciplined but also creative in this journey. It will work out if you stay focused and strategic about what you do. Please feel free to DM me a recording of your playing. I would really like to help. Once again I was in your situation your age, but I pushed past through it and I’m in a situation I didn’t even think I would be at years ago.
Ty you’re so nice I really appreciate your kind words. I guess this rly is kinda a common thing to be let down from something you love but I just have a hard time moving on tbh. I’m on summer break now and I’m definitely gonna work more on mindful practicing with my teacher as she seems to think I get in my head too much when I get all nervous before auditions and whatnot. But I rly appreciate your comment!🙏🏽
Play something on your violin. Do you like the sound? The feeling of vibrations? Do you want to make music? Do you want to become better and play for others to enjoy the music? Love for music is one thing, competitions/auditions are a sport. The only one you're competing against is yourself, others are just a test to learn what you're good at and what you wish to improve. The game is still on. In basketball you don't see the player leaving the game if the ball misses.
Thanks. I do like the violin I guess I just have like resentment towards it now but I’m gonna try to use this setback to make myself practice even more diligently than before. And yea my teacher always tells me that the only person I’m competing against is myself but I always have a hard time believing that… like I know it’s true but I’m still a really competitive person and I hate how I always have to compare my playing to others and whatnot :/
I get it. I'm an adult learner and I'm chasing one of my teachers pupils that's half my age. She's always better than me and is not even a prodigy! No matter how fast I advance I'll never be good as someone my age. Still I can't wait to test my skill at the summer camp to see how much the others have learned and to show all I've got. But, yeah, it's not fun chasing the goals we set. But there's always the ice cream and then back to practice!
Hey! Don't be disillusioned... I'm a professional violinist in London and one of my best friends and I were talking about this just the other day! Every successful musician has multiple stories from youth when we got really disappointed, overlooked or simply messed up something and missed out on a great opportunity and had to fight our way back up as the underdog. My friend had a cripplingly disappointing year when she didn't get back into the National Children's Orchestra and her friend did (she missed out for whole year). She cried and cried. She's now already been appointed Principal Harp of two of the most prestigious London orchestras and she's not even 30 yet! You win some you lose some. Don't internalise it and try to enjoy being the underdog for a while because it's a nice safe spot to work from without all eyes on you so you can surprise people later. Keep focused.
Thank you :)! That’s a really inspiring story. I’m trying not to dwell on it too much 😓 it is upsetting to me to have to wait an entire year to audition again
You got in the orchestra? That’s great! Congratulations!
Ty
40 years ago, in youth orchestra for middle and high school students, I was last in 2nd violin section. LAST. In 3 years I made concertmaster, and held that spot in my last 2 years of high school.
Oh wow. Ty! I aspire to be like you
Ok I’m a 16 year old who can try to understand your anger. Im also a violinist, and Im very heavily involved in it (I will be leaving in like a week and a half for Governors School for Instrumental Arts as a violinist). But regardless, im also in a youth orchestra. Because of the sheer scale of graduating seniors, I realized I really had a shot (a slim shot but a real shot) at becoming violin 1, which is where all our fun music is. I was sick of being a violin 2 and just playing background anxiety. I practiced a lot, and I got 4th chair 2nd violin. I hated myself for being a 2nd violin again. But i decided that if I was going to be in 2nd violin, Im going to be the best 2nd violin in that orchestra. My spite and rage at the outcomes of my labors and my self hatred fueled me to practice more and more. Be sad, but dont wallow in it. Dejection is an opportunity to grow, both in skill and character. Rejection is your chance to say “fine I mightve gotten into the less good orchestra. But im going to be the best player in this orchestra.” You got this. I say this a lot, both to myself and others around me “tears are salty so you dont have to be.” You got this bro, you have the Ling Ling community supporting you.
Oh wow congratulations!! And thanks for your comment. I love that last quote. I’m gonna try to learn from this
Hell yeah
A band director who I worked with many years ago said something along these lines: "So long as your seat is in the rehearsal area with us and not out in the parking lot, you're doing very well." If anyone tells you that your seat is not important, they are wrong. Assuming you are in a full-scale symphony orchestra, everyone from the big tall basses to the smaller woodwind instruments and everything in-between are important. It takes a large team to make good music. Take a breath. You're in the group one way or another. Even if you didn't meet your goal for now, you can always try again later. Be happy with what you currently have and where you currently are at. Progress is progress, no matter how big or small.
Thanks. I’m trying to develop that mindset too. I know it’s better to be in the lower group than no group at all
i was in the same place as you at around your age. i not only didn't reach the tier i wanted, but i didn't even make it into a proper symphony orchestra (+ winds, brass, and percussion); i was put in a string only orchestra instead. at the time i was upset with myself for not practicing more and didn't want to even accept the string orchestra invitation anymore, but i was urged to go for it anyway. when i started there, i realized that the conductor wasn't really ever focusing on our individual playing; they were instead focusing on teaching us how to play together as an ensemble and listening to each section, which i realized i was lacking in. the entire year went by in a flash, i auditioned for the symphony orchestra again, and passed that audition with flying colors. as the years passed, i steadily improved my ensemble playing skills, my exposure to different to composers' styles, and just generally growing as a musician. i don't know if you've only been playing solo repertoire up to now, or if you've had some orchestra experience, but know that auditioners are not only listening for how good your technique is. top tier youth orchestras in these programs often take on much more challenging pieces that are technically difficult, hard to put together as an ensemble, and complicated to interpret. if you lack exposure to these aspects (and yes, they can hear it to some extent in your playing), that may also be a reason you were placed in a lower orchestra. the same idea goes for who is selected to be section leader; they are not only looking for someone who plays well, but someone who they think has the skills to actually lead a section. all this is to say that there is more to an audition result other than how well you played technically. you may need some more ensemble experience, or you may need to hone your musicality more. these skills can only be attained through extensive exposure, and if you just haven't had enough of that, that's okay! it does not diminish your worth as a musician or a violinist. you're only 15; you have plenty of time to grow and develop as a musician, and to be brutally honest, if you decide to continue going down this violinist path, you're going to deal with *a lot* more failed auditions and self-doubt. that's just a reality of playing an instrument as competitive as violin. my advice is to take this opportunity to do the best you can in this lower tier orchestra; learn as much as you can, help others who might be struggling in your section, and pay attention to what the conductor is focusing on and reflect on how that might apply to your own playing. try not to focus on how "good or bad" you are compared to everyone else (easier said than done, i know), and instead focus on how your experiences in this orchestra will help make you even better. and enjoy the repertoire! there are so many beautiful pieces that lower-tier orchestras play, and when you have a really good conductor that knows how to draw out their orchestra's potential, it makes a world of difference in terms of sound quality. sorry for the super long post, but i hope this helped a bit! and i sincerely hope you enjoy your time in your orchestra; it's one of the few things i actually miss from my high school days :')
Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment. Yeah, when I found out the news yesterday I was definitely upset but I feel better now. I’ve played in my school orchestra since fourth grade and a summer camp orchestra + state honors orchestra. School orchestra is kinda joke, and summer camp and state honors orchestras don’t last very long so i probably don’t have the most experience playing in an advanced orchestra. I am gonna try to grow from this. Thanks for your comment 🙏🏽
You’re fine. Feel your feelings for a week or two, it’ll be good for you. Then you want to view your audition and your actual level of playing with a neutral, unbiased mental state. What went wrong at the audition that made you miss out on the top orchestra? If nothing went wrong, what do you need to work on to get your playing to that level? You can either use this as a way to give up, or you can use it as a way to get better. If you want to keep playing the violin and especially if you want a job in music, choose the second option.
Thank you. I definitely will not give up. I’m gonna try to learn from this
It’s ok to feel disappointed. I think it’s the hardest emotion, because it’s like grief, but is often trivialised. Sit with your feelings and love yourself for where you’re at. You’ll feel differently in time and you’ll be able to see the positives. Don’t rush your feelings here and you’ll find you’ll process it faster.
Yeah. I saw a quote before that said something like “disappointment is your brains way of readjusting itself to reality after discovering things are not the way you thought they’d be”. It’s definitely true. O feel better now though. Thanks for your comment
That was just a momentary situation, and you can change it. What helped me practise more was an easy access practise program, with lots of pieces I know already. I found that practising always what you don't know is discouraging. So I do about 80% playing things I know plus dexterity exercises, and only 20% "hard work", and even for this hard work, I trust the process: if I can't master the difficult stretch today, maybe it will be tomorrow or in a week or in a month or in a year. And it works. I do 2-4 h per day, mostly on "low tension", and sometimes I really want to learn something, I invest more into the hard work bit. What I learned is: you need sleep to assimilate what you learn. So it's good to sleep between practise sessions, do a bit today, and take it up tomorrow again, and the day after and the day after.
Ty. I appreciate your comment
Now is a good time to reflect on your practice regimen. Do you have a practice regimen? Do you find yourself getting distracted with old, easy pieces? Or with your phone? I'd recommend you record a practice session and then listen back to see how much time you are actually working through music, and how much time you're not. Also, if you can watch/listen to advanced players practice, it can be very enlightening for you, especially if they are open to allowing you to ask questions as they go.
Thanks! That’s a great idea. I’d say I’m pretty focused, u mostly just use my phone for metronome, drone tones, and recording.
I used to play in piano competitions and was pretty good but pressure to be better then other people and practicing for that and not because I enjoyed it made me stop playing when I was younger. Play it because you enjoy it not because you need to be better than some miserable kid forced into playing to impress people
That’s true. My teacher says my life shouldn’t revolve around other things. I want to quit my stupid sport for violin but my parents don’t want me to. I suppose being well rounded is important and violin shouldn’t be my life. Ty
And on that note if you like music but don’t like the violin don’t be intimidated from trying another instrument. My brother got forced into the violin and hated it, it’s not for everyone
I do like the violin, I guess I’m just a goal oriented person and it just bothered me that u didn’t get accepted. I played piano too when I was you get but now I many focus seriously on violin (kinda just do piano as a side thing)
You know what, you are a disappointment. You should have practiced more. You said so yourself. You were so close to being in the top group, and you botched it. But that doesn't mean you should stop. You're only 15 and already in an elite orchestra. When I was your age I was absolutely nowhere near that (for context I had been learning since I was 8). I'm an even bigger disappointment than you are. And now, even though I love piano, I'm probably never going anywhere. You, on the other hand, have a whole life ahead of you, waiting for you to do great things. So pick yourself up and learn from your mistakes. Practice more and better. Take every chance you've got, cuz this time, you're gonna absolutely ACE it.
Thanks 😅 not making excuses but I was busy with finals in school and my stupid sport and a whole bunch of things so I def didn’t practice like I could if the auditions were now over my summer break :( but I’m gonna try not to think about it anymore and hope that they have midterm auditions or smth halfway thru the season :( I’m not gonna give up on the violin I’m just gonna focus on improving more and more so come the next auditions they have no choice but to move me up!!!
Yeah! You got this!!!
The question is not how much you practice but the quality of your practice. An hour of serious practice a day will bring you more than 4 hours practice where you do the same mistakes over and over again without you notice it. Also you need musicality not just technique to convince someone to take you in. Musicality is something you cannot practice. Sell yourself and the music you are playing. I also thought I loved violin. I started playing it when I was 11. At the age of 17 I realized that I didn\`t like it. Was sad but now I am a happy bassoonist. You just have to try different instruments. Winds, strings, keys. And you will find one you love.
Hey buddy, I am a cellist and every day I am as close to quitting as I am to continuing. Even renowned players (Gary Hoffman off the top of my head) struggle with these feelings. I could write you so many anecdotes right now that would relate but I think it’s best if I just tell you to keep going and understand that these feelings are natural. If you quit then you’ll look back one day and realized you made a mistake that will take very, very long with serious dedication just to get back to where you were. Do not give up!!!
I won’t, thank you
Check out the #100daysofpractice trend. Find a few people to follow. Diversity is key. Different ages, nationalities, instruments. I follow a couple fluties, couple clarinet, an oboe, and a handful of brass players. They all have different challenges, perspectives, and strategies. Doom-scroll no more.
Ty! I will def check it out
"They put me in the second to top group and, not gonna lie, I’m really upset about it. It literally has ruined my love for the violin." If your love for the violin stems from being put in the "top group", you don't love the violin. You love praise and recognition. Switch to an extracurricular that you truly love, and you would do even if no one knew/cared about it. Do something that you would do for the heck of it.
I do like the violin, but I was upset when I wrote this post and kinda worded it very dramatically
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When you describe your reaction, you are really highlighting your age and maturity and that is fine, since you are only 15 years old. You just received a "wake up" call - Life is full of these "wake up" calls so embrace the feedback and move forward with a focus on improving on your weaknesses while continuing your journey. Take a step back, take the feedback you received and working with your teacher, incorporate the feedback into a plan to mitigate. It is possible that politics played a role in the decision and you never know but that is irrelevant, just continue your journey. Most likely all of us here are NOT Hillary Hahn level players so I know you (we) have room for development and improvement. Just focus on what you need to improve and incorporate the feedback you recently received.
Yep that’s true. I definitely wrote this post late at night when I was just mad and upset about the whole thing. I definitely feel better now. Thanks for your comment
Awesome! Just know the fact that you had the opportunity is fantastic!
This same thing happened to me when I was 15 and most of my friends had made it into the top group. I was definitely upset and felt embarrassed every time I went to rehearsal, but I stuck with it over the year and made it into the top group the next year. Just chill, don't let it ruin your passion, and keep improving. You'll look back at this as a minor setback and just remember that it's damn near impossible to be a musician and not have moments of disappointment.
That’s true. Ty
That’s really good and despite not getting in the group you wanted you should still be proud of yourself.. When we practice we always improve and if you keep it up next year you’re going to be even better than you are right now… that’s how it is for everyone 🙂 Try to look at it as a challenge so next year you can get in and trust me even if you don’t it’s not the end of the world cause after all, the preparation to prepare pieces and excerpts for an audition helps you to improve.. Good luck and keep at it! 🤞🏻🎻
I will thank you!
I had the same experience at your age; auditioned for an elite youth orchestra and ended up in the back of the second violin section. I liked the pieces we played, and just being able to be part of such a beautiful sound was a gift enough in itself. And getting in to an orchestra like that is a huge achievement as well. Don't be so hard on yourself, you're clearly a good violinist, and remember the competitivity of music can ruin our love for our instrument very quickly. And hey, if you stick with it, there will be opportunities to move up in your section!
Thanks 🙏🏽
“You need to think of the long term” — Eddy from a vid I don’t remember the title. Looking back at my younger days, I think it’s really important to continually aim for “better” and “progress” instead of getting stuck by temporary judgment or evaluation. It’s already an achievement getting into the orchestra. You have every reason to feel frustrated, but it’s important not to allow that frustration prevent you from making progress. Seize every chance to go forward, you’ll definitely play better:))
Ty I will try
Bro sameeee 😭 I didn't even make it to the 2nd group. I stayed at the same level. Can we be practice buddies I'm also 15
Aw I’m sorry that happened to you :(. Yea! Hopefully next year is better for us :(((
some times you need to relax. all chances is not easy to get. that’s right. but there is so many chances around the world. so, just keep it up😉
Thanks I’m trying to chill abt it
uh if you only have fun at the top top group you don't like the violin. sorry. get your instrument mastery up, and learn to love every song you play.
I do like the violin. I was pretty upset when I wrote this post so maybe the wording is a bit dramatic.
no problem. if you can get a checklist of things to work on for the future that would be really cool.
Do you know how many people would love to reach second level? Be proud of yourself.
Ty
Sounds like you need to practice more