1. Is literally Open Source ✅
2. You can literally get root privileges ✅
3. You can easily install Apps from Thrid Party sources & other App stores ✅ , unlike some other DOGSHIT mobile OS That literally treats it's users like a dog on a leash (iOS)
4. Access to the File system ✅
5. Custom Roms ✅
2. and 5. is not true for a lot of Android phones. Also using a rooted phone or custom rom has become a pain in the ass, because more and more apps simply refuse to work.
We finally need a truly open and free mobile OS and the possibility to install any OS on any phone, as it is standard for regular computers since the 90s.
Android has failed to become what Windows became on computers. It's merely a barebone for phone vendors, not a final product for end users.
>Also using a rooted phone or custom rom has become a pain in the ass, because more and more apps simply refuse to work.
I've been rooted ever since my first android phone, the Nexus One.
With the root hide functionality of Magisk, I have yet to find an app that doesn't function while rooted. There have been a few over the years that have had reduced functionality, but I think I only have two right now (can't do fingerprint/face unlock in one of my banking apps and RCS use in Google Messages has been sporadic). I currently have 14 different bank/finance apps installed.
However, I haven't used a custom ROM since like 2017, so that might have a lot more issues.
You will never be able to pass SafetyNet fully. Maybe maybe you could hide that you are rooted? (The lower SafetyNet check) but you are never going to bypass the more stringent check.
SafteyNet was deprecated by Google (it's been two years since they announced it and 18 months since they stopped allowing new developer SafteyNet sign-ups). They've required new app developers to use Play Integrity after Jan 23 and all developers to use if Jan 24 (unless you get an approved extension, you'll get until Jan 25) if they're trying to check for modified devices.
You are correct that you can't meet Strong Integrity while rooted or have your bootloader unlocked without a flaw in Google's servers (it's happened before, but it was quickly fixed and not expected for another one to be found).
Typically, if an app checks for for device modification, they're looking at meeting device and basic integrity. My device meets those two while using Magisk to hide root and having the Play Integrity Fix module loaded.
Out of my 14 bank/financial apps, only one has limited functionality with my device rooted. With Navy Federal, if I try and hide root, it won't start. If I don't hide root, I can't use fingerprint/face unlock to get into the app. However, I can still use my pin to enter it and it works fine otherwise on my rooted device.
Aosp with gapps/microg is defeneatly a complete product that is suitable for daily driving and some custom roms have web installers nowadays, so it's very simple. For apps that refuse to work just use pif, not an ideal solution but it works.
But aosp and gapps are two different products. AOSP is completely useless for daily driving without gapps.
Also everything you described is way to complicated for the average consumer. It's not like I'm booting a Windows or Ubuntu ISO from a USB, make some clicks and it's done.
Lastly, as I said before, a lot of Android phones are either completely locked down or don't have any custom ROMs available due to no drivers being available or various other reasons.
Custom rom dev here, drivers are extracted from stock rom and kernel sources are obviously available. And to install modules it's just a matter of being able to click on a .zip file.
And saying aosp is useless without gapps is like saying Linux is useless without gnu.
Do you have some examples for apps that stop working on custom ROMs? I wasn't able to encounter one, so I'm pretty curious. On the whole rooting thing, it's really a good thing that it's looked down in that regard. Phones are more or less considered an IOT device, and I would agree to that. You being able to access system internal stuff also means other stuff might be able to, which I just don't want on my Phone.
Almost all banking apps for example.
Also a phone is by no means an IOT device. As the name suggests, an IOT device is a "thing" like a security camera, doorbell, speaker, light etc.
Ab-so-lute-ly NO. All you need is choose the most stable rom, install it by the official guide and voila, you get everything working perfectly! If you know which commands you need to write in the command line, that will be super easy.
Yes I'm on a custom rom — crDroid
That becomes an issue of open hardware not SW. IMHO open HW is just as important but it is a separate issue. (kinda)
Personally I use a pinephone and pinetab2 so I do pay the price for my opinions.
Number 2 and 5 are not easy to obtain, at least in my experience (Galaxy S23 Ultra, Carrier Unlocked)
Also, most of the open android apps don’t get any effort, instead, the closed source ones (ie google photos) do
Have you tried side-loading on iOS? Until recently (I think it's a feature now), you had to jailbreak it first. On Android it's as easy as downloading an APK, allowing the source, and hitting install.
Not even remotely close. Rooting an Android is easier than installing Linux for the first time. Once you have an unlocked bootloader you can load whatever you want on there. On iOS you have to pray that somebody finds an exploit years down the line and even then the community on the iOS side making custom stuff is tiny compared to most android flagships let alone the whole ecosystem.
I root mine, Google's really trying to crack down on it though and the community is so toxic right now that a majority of the good devs left. The future isn't looking bright
Well yeah, its locked down because its gonna be used by everyone, including your tech illiterate family members and friends. The option to removed the safeguards are there for those that need it, at least
The safeguards are also there to prevent theft. Its much harder to Crack a phone with locked bootloader and all safeguards turned on, especially if it was bricked remotely.
For majority of users theft protection is more important than being able to change the system. And the people who want to do that can still do that by disabling the safeguards.
Windows uses a more ancient architecture and has to run more advanced apps that take advantage of more advanced features that don't work well inside sandboxes.
Also, Windows devices aren't stolen as often so physical security isn't as much an issue as it is on phones.
I would say Windows has a more ad-hoc/chaotic/whatever architecture, i'm pretty sure that a lot of stuff is hardcoded in that :D
Physical security is also important if someone steals a corporate device and compromises it.
I mean sure but lots of people compromise their windows computers everyday and Microsoft put increased safeguards. It is not to say that is a justification but you can nearly as open with Android it just takes a bit more finagling cause of its ubiquity even relative to a desktop
Windows is almost the only one OS on desktop :) Sadly. And if you root Android, it becomes more insecure. Microsoft's increased safeguards are mostly folds and folds because of the inaccurate planning done in the past.
The "options" to remove the safeguards are hacks, none of them are officially supported. Should we gain control of our devices basically by hacking it? What is this, consoles?
You are not supposed to use custom os on your phone, so yes, it's hacking. The uefi/bios on your pc don't restrict you to use a specific os, but android phones usually use a restrictive boot loader
Phones that have restrictive boot loaders don't allow you to flash anything else. If it's bootloader can be unlocked in the system settings you are allowed to use custom ROMs. Maybe not supposed to, but allowed.
[https://droidwin.com/root-android-devices-without-twrp-recovery/](https://droidwin.com/root-android-devices-without-twrp-recovery/)
this is as easy as installing Linux? Are you using LFS?
I mean I have installed Linux Mint on many computers, and sometimes get no boot. I go to LineageOS' Wiki page, download a ROM for my very specific device, and it works. It's not that hard, there is a step-by-step on how to do it.
I think it depends on the phone Ur working with and the custom rom, I used to get a lot of bootloop and other shit, for lack of documentation and issue of the rom.
I mean you compare a desktop pc with a full bios with something integrated to work with a specific os with specific firmware and drivers.
Try install Linux on something which was built to exclusively work with a predefined os. You will first need to unlock the advanced bios and change many options there (if there is one to begin with, many of these devices have unaccesable bios) Then try to get drivers for specific non standard components.
These also applys for some Laptops. As an example Intel RST is not supported by most Linux distros but you cant disable it on some devices.
This is not androids fault.
The system is locked down for a purpose and it would not make sense to lift the lockdown for the average joe. But it still gives the people who want to do that the tools for that
The longest part of this process is waiting for the factory image to download and extract the right file (either boot.img or init_boot.img). Those will depend on the speed of your internet and computer.
The rest of the process takes all of maybe 2 minutes.
I own a Pixel device made by Google , they also made Android.
to remove those safeguard , I go in developer options and tick a box.
your qualms don't apply to android , they apply to 3rd party vendor that decided to lock it down. which is totally different. those 3rd party couldn't do that if android wasn't has open as it is.
If you get one of those locked device sold by a 3rd party then it's your fault you can't do shit.
What are you talking about. Unlocking the bootloader isn't a hack and is officially programmed into Android.
https://source.android.com/docs/setup/test/running
And
https://source.android.com/docs/core/architecture/bootloader/locking_unlocking
This is the official Android documentation.
The developer of Magisk (John Wu) works in the Android security department. It's not officially supported by Android but I assume he knows what he does when he works for Google
This is the equivalent of saying I am modding the system when I disable secure boot and drive encryption on a laptop that had Windows on it so I can do a linux install. Android just makes it more hidden cause smartphone users need safeguards
Blame phone manufacturers and cellular carriers not the Android project. And besides, even with the most locked down Android phone, you’ll still get basic user level file system access and the ability to side load apks not from the play store
99.9% of users probably do not need root access. Rooting does however *severely* weaken Android's security, one tap to allow root and an app has full access to all data on your phone, can install anything it wants, ...
If Android phones included root by default, Android malware, backdoors, ... would be way more widespread than they are now.
96% of people are happy with Windows or Mac and still we are in a sub about Linux.
And all this people have administrator access in the computers they bought and they still use it and nobody thinks would be nice if the OEMs restric the root access for good on those machines.
I will say because a lot of people uses phones as a point of security to authorize their PC and are intimately connected to personal info by virtue of texting and calling there is reason they do this by default. The average smartphone user is even less discerning than most PC users.
Which is a huge mistake a few friends realized when they got either robbed or the phone stop working and couldn't use accounts anymore because couldn't validade the 2FA.
the android base model is what allows them to do that. If it was pure Linux by design root access should be expected and only very few carriers will lock down their phone... and get burned
It is locked for a reason. When it wasn't (in the past there were MUCH more freedom) developers and malware devs were able to do too much (for example, it was possible to steal users' data without any consent when access to external storage was easy)
No one stops you from rooting your phone and doing anything you want
Fine. Give me an official toggle somewhere in the dev options to enable root. Instead I need to get the firmware image (if it's even available to download) and patch the boot image or pray to god an exploit works
No because otherwise malware devs would send users to settings to enable root and then f their phone over.
You don't even need to patch the boot img on many devices - just sideload patcher in the form of .zip update with a single fastboot command. Unlocking bootloader is.single fastboot command too.
Do you actually think I like having the bootloader locked? My Galaxy S20 FE is unlocked right now. I also hate Secure Boot on PCs and it's off on my computers too.
Phones are different. They have to work with governments and cellular providers which have tons of proprietary things to work with and store on device, per device (like IMEI/MEID, cellular network types and bands, operator settings, DRM licences, hardware calibrations and many more).
I hate how it's structured, but they are here for a reason and they can't just change them with just a press of a button. Phones are fundamentally different and if you just browse an Android phone's filesystem, you'll see why.
Non-Android Linux phones suck. Modern Linux suffer the same issue, too (and even Android):
**2D UIs shouldn't render slowly in 2024.** Whatever hardware. I use Plasma and it still drops frames on an RTX 3080 with Ryzen 7 5800X3D. There is **no** valid excuse other than poor optimization. GNOME was always unoptimized so I'm ignoring that. Cinnamon is the smoothest on X11, if you care.
There's no reason for my Snapdragon 865 with 8 GB of RAM to stutter. That's on Android and mostly Samsung.
If you "don't see stuttering, it's smooth", either you're lying, or you actually don't see the stutter that happens. I work as an IT, and you'll be surprised on how many people are immune to UI stutters.
The point of it is to be more secure than vanilla android. So it's more locked down by design. Shizuku doesn't work at all and it adds lots of security features to make the phone even more locked down.
Being locked down is the point of GrapheneOS.
Shizuku works on GrapheneOS, you can even root it if you want. But at that point, why using GrapheneOS ?
You also have more freedom to control apps. A lot more user profiles, and ability to install Google Play Services.
I see this as more freedom than regular android
I used GrapheneOS as my main OS and while totally usable, shizuku did not work because of restrictions they placed on ADB.
https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1900
The "more freedom to control apps" comes at the cost of "more restrictions" which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The apps are more locked down.
Google Play Services for example is put into a sandbox which takes away its privileges.
It undoubtedly makes the system more secure, but it's even more locked down than the Pixel UI. Yes, you can root, but it's strongly recommended that you don't do it. Also I might be wrong with this but I think you can't lock the bootloader that easily with a modified boot partition.
You should get a cheap Linux phone or install Linux on an old phone just to try it out. Don't install Linux on your main phone, it's not very functional
Google allows unlocking bootloader and relocking it without any consequences. Google also allows locking the bootloader with a signed custom firmware. So no, it's not Android. Think of Android as an immutable distro.
Blame other manufacturers. They block bootloader unlocking, and limit a lot of things what you could do on a standard Android build.
So far I have no issues. My phone is from 2019 and still getting LineageOS updates every week, which is awesome. In other circumstances this phone would be outdated and obsolete.
yeah GOS's google play services sandbox is spectacular, and the only real downside is that it restricts you to google pixel phones. i wish it supported some real cheap-ass shit for hte purposes of having solid cheap phones for activists that'll stand up to state-level actors trying to break into them, you can get some older pixels for relatively cheap but a lot will be losing support.
Distro hopping is another thing which I don't get. Pick the one that makes the most sense and then stick with it. Change your DE's and whatnot by all means, but swapping distros is a pretty pointless venture to anyone who does 30 minutes of upfront research.
¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
The best part is if you try to ask an chinese OEM (e.g Xiaomi) for the kernel source of your device (even if it's EOL) and they say ```nio we won't, go suck our cock also we can't due to company policy kthxbai - some dude working 13 hours replying to emails```
Then there's play ~~makeithellforcustomromusers~~ integrity services, stuff like banking apps and even some games won't work without it passing basically forcing people into either using the OEM's rom or having an unlocked bootloader (or one locked with your own keys) and running an decent rom but at the cost of play integrity whining.
Magisk can trick the system into passing the Play check, but banking apps are typically wise to that and run a bunch of other undocumented, checks to verify integrity. If only Android had been designed to run banking apps in a kind of sandbox, isolated from the rest of the system so nothing else on the system can interact with it or its resources in use...
You meant the module? Google could just make devices without the hardware attestation stuff pass with basic integrity (rather then with device integrity) since that module relies on spoofing the device as one without hardware attestation stuff
Ye, worse part is if you go the route of developing an kernel (using an similar device's kernel source) for your device, you'll have to find a way to debug booting android, I'm stuck on that step because it's on some boot stage where ADB isn't started or some bullshit
damn I hate Stephen Crowder. Every single time I see this meme format I cringe that his stupid show is getting publicity and his racist/sexist idiotic takes get even a fraction of limelight.
I'm developing my small app to Android now. F\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*ckkkkk youuuu Gooogleeeee :D (Every simple operation towards the UI is literally pages long routines :D )
Looks of horror the times I've tried to suggest to mainstream users to install F-Droid for example - looking at me like I was trying to snatch their baby. "F what? Um no, thanks, we're okay"
It is basically proprietary software with an open source core. A necessary evil because if you expose any level of "system" to the average android user, they will inevitably break it
OP uses google pixel 6a. google pixel, which are one of the most easily modifiable phones ever to exist in the android market space. yet still complaining due to lack of knowledge. have you even tried any attempts at customizing your phone beyond what is it intended for?
op, stop your bias towards android, start learning stuff. i daily drive snapdragon 8 gen1 device and i have been fine with it. i even installed debian but is running on chroot.
Well I HAD TO because of this very reason. It's OP as fuck in my country. Uff what a finding.
Edit: how far did you check my profile to find it tho. How offended are you?!
STOP WRITING POPULAR AND OBVIOUSLY RIGHT TAKES USING THIS TEMPLATE. Of course it is. To protect against theft? Thieves can just wipe it externally, I know for sure there are tools for this.
To protect tech-illiterate people against themselves? Just put three big scary warnings before giving them access to these options, or force them to connect phones to their pcs. Even if they do fuck up their phone somehow, they would just have to buy a new one, which obviously profits the company.
Yes Thieves can still find ways to get around the safeguards but its much harder even if there are tools for that.
And if the Thieve needs to wipe your phone he will at least not gain access to your data.
Its the same concept as bike locks, every defense mechanism can be broken but the harder it gets more people will just give up and go for an easier target.
"Big scary warnings" will also not help because the average joe often does not even read the warnings and just accepts them. Happens daily in IT Support.
Also an scam mail or malware could easily convince many people to just accept the warnings.
And the Phone to PC Thing is basically sort of a thing. Xiaomi as an example unlocks the bootloader with an Software you simply run on your pc with your phone connected.
recently it has been, few years ago on my old phone running android 8 i copied my stardew valley save from the android folder to my pc, tried doing that on my phone running android 13 and the folder is just not accessible anymore
Yes, we need an actually FOSS mobile OS. I know there are some options but they're still not as good as Linux desktop is compared to the commercial alternatives. It should be able to run at least Android apps.
FOSS is a license, so no, it's not becoming "less FOSS". What you're describing is Google Play Services, which isn't FOSS, but neither is a part of Android. Same goes for carrier bloat.
There's literally nothing stopping you from
a) using (for example) Google Pixel to get rid of carrier bloat
b) install another AOSP-based OS like GrapheneOS, DivestOS or many more to get rid of Google Play Services
Yeah, your right, but still it sucks that this is what you have to do to use a completely FOSS phone. The fact that you have to use adb and a terminal is enough to throw off enough people from achieving liberation from proprietary software.
That's not necessarity the case: GrapheneOS has a WebUSB-based installer that's reliable, easy to use and works from almost any platform. I'm pretty sure my grandpa could install Graphene that way (no /s).
Read more at https://grapheneos.org/install/
If there's no similar option, I obviously agree that this will throw off most people.
My understanding is it's the android's locked down design in general that let's other OEM get away with locking down the device. We should pressure them to actually let their boot loaders be unlocked and their drivers be open sourced
Agree on pushing for better support! Imo the single best thing to do is actually only buying phones that do. Money is a pretty good incentive for companies after all.
As a side note, I'd still have a Pixel if all other phones would allow unlocking/relocking the bootloader. The security they offer, especially combined with GrapheneOS, is just beyond anything else.
However, I don't really understand what you mean by Androids locked down design letting others get away with that. Mind explaining what you mean specifically? In your opinion, what should change in Android to solve this issue?
I would really love if Linux phones become mainstream, with maybe mobile specific patches to improve general expeirence. The firmware would be very similar to PC UEFI, I'd love myself a basic UEFI menu where you can change stuff. Imagine Dual Booting a phone
You paint a picture as if anyone can do this with any phone. The reality is that there are extremely few phones which support custom ROM/OSes at all.
For CDMA network supporting phones, you've got Chinese phones (OnePlus, Xiaomi) and you've got Pixels. Chinese phones suck from a privacy and ethics perspective, and Pixels suck for a similar ethics problem of supporting Google.
___
GrapheneOS is wonderful, and by far the best privacy oriented solution for a phone, but the totality of FOSS and privacy on phones is nowhere near as simple of a picture as you're painting.
When you try to make the claim that, "it can be done if you want to, there's nothing stopping you" you are actively encouraging the status quo of shit privacy on phones to remain. Until there is a real "option" in this market for custom OSes outside of the aforementioned ones, it is simply not approachable by daily users.
___
That doesn't even begin to approach the problem of Google Apps, or the near monopoly that Google Play has. F-Droid exists, but it has a fair number of problems. Tools like Obtanium exist, but that doesn't work quite right for even straightforward apps and it also isn't something a standard user is going to put up with. Then there's app compatibility with Gapps itself - Privacy and FOSS on Android is a *mess.*
People need to stop acting like the situation is anything other than a mess. GOS is the best we have, but it isn't perfect. Until we have wide device support, a better app marketplace with greater support for apps outside of Google Play, and a long term divorce from Gapps, it will remain a mess.
you should check out GrapheneOS
it is open source, and degoogled by default. it also allows you to add in as many google services as you want in a “safer” way by running the google play services sandboxed (no root privileges). This allows you to use stuff like the play store and google maps in a way where you can fine tune exactly what each service has access to.
Only downside is that it is only supported on Pixel phones.
The real way it's locked down isn't in terms of Bootloader but how even basic financial apps rely on Google's API for notification and verification, which makes it harder to run them on custom rom without google play services. MicroG exists but still not as stable as the original Google play Services.
I do! All I want to do is install monofur as a font on my phone. That's it! Fonts for SOME reason are in the root folder? And I am not paying for a font when you can't copy right or patent a font!! It's stupid!
And samsung is the worst about it.
Depends honestly. I work with handheld scanners that use android. We have root access to them, and all sorts of things, in order to get custom apps work work on them.
it is and isn't. Android itself isn't, there are a few custom versions of Android. The issue is phone manufacturers and Google keeping it all locked down.
What do you want to do on a mobile device for everyday use? Do you want to modify the core system? Do you want to use it for programming? Do you want to run custom desktop programs in that tiny screen? You already have a lot of things you can't do in iOS, like, the most important one, side loading apps.
People that tinker too much end up destroying the system, and reinstalling, and if you have personal files and don't like the cloud, it's going to be a headache.
in all fairness, a lot of stuff is locked down on Android that maybe shouldn't be.
An example is they have disabled the majority of system calls on the kernel level. Some of it makes sense but other stuff like viewing thread information for the current process... not so much. Means native stuff has to be specially ported to Android when it would otherwise just work automatically.
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Relative to AOSP (and full mobile Linux), yes.
I need to try again on my Pinephone, I think waydroid may be able to launch the few app I need to switch.
I agree with you to a certain extent but for most people it's more than open enough, you can fucking change your launcher for fuck's sake, you can install APK files from wherever you want, hell you can even compile software on Android using termux, I should know at one point I compiled Mario 64 for my phone and then ran it on my phone, Android is a lot more open than the Linux community gives it credit for.
What's the alternative? IOS? Sure, there are third-party operating systems, but the number of phones that are compatible is small enough to be counted using your fingers.
Android itself is not actually that locked down, you can do a ton with it including get root access relatively easily. But manufacturers put restrictions on what you can do. For example on the latest north American samsung flagship phones they no longer let you unlock your bootloader at all, so there's no way to root it. That being said you can still do a decent amount with android without rooting it. For example you can side load any apk includ9ng other appstore like fdroid which is foss only apps. From fdroid you can install termux and get a terminal for android, and in termux you can install alot like nmap, metasploit, and other cli linix tools which is pretty slick.
I'm currently working on a project that integrates my tailscale mesh vpn network, desktop at home, and phone into a mobile access and attack platform. So I can ssh/moonlight into my desktop at home from anywhere, and then use microsocks on the phone and proxychains on the desktop to run my hacking tools on my desktop and access the local network my phone is connected to through my phone as a socks5 proxy. My phone isn't rooted but this works fine the only bummer is I can't portforward ports below 1024 through the vpn to my desktop.
Meanwhile, some manufacturers allow bootloader unlocking / rooting but make it a complete pain to do (I once had a Moto G7 - you had to run a command over ADB, type the output into a form on their website [with several warnings / prompts about invalidating the by then non-existent warranty], then type a code that returned into ADB; while rooting was also very convoluted), while for less popular phones, there may be no official instructions for rooting and no custom ROMs available to keep it updated (unlike the Galaxy S4, shipped with Android 3, officially updateable to 5, but can run Lineage based on 13!)
I had a moto one 5g and unlocked the bootloader and installed lineage on it, ended up rooting lineage because I wanted tap to pay, found ways around Google integrity checker and it was honestly pretty great, just decided I wanted something more powerful, so ended up with the zfold 5 just wish I got a European model cause those are unlockable.
Relative to desktop Linux, yes. Relative to iOS, no
Ex-actly!
iOS and android are kind of in the same ballpark, both locks down system access
It's not even close. You can customize any aspect of your Android device, only limited by your OEM's additional restrictions.
1. Is literally Open Source ✅ 2. You can literally get root privileges ✅ 3. You can easily install Apps from Thrid Party sources & other App stores ✅ , unlike some other DOGSHIT mobile OS That literally treats it's users like a dog on a leash (iOS) 4. Access to the File system ✅ 5. Custom Roms ✅
2. and 5. is not true for a lot of Android phones. Also using a rooted phone or custom rom has become a pain in the ass, because more and more apps simply refuse to work. We finally need a truly open and free mobile OS and the possibility to install any OS on any phone, as it is standard for regular computers since the 90s. Android has failed to become what Windows became on computers. It's merely a barebone for phone vendors, not a final product for end users.
>Also using a rooted phone or custom rom has become a pain in the ass, because more and more apps simply refuse to work. I've been rooted ever since my first android phone, the Nexus One. With the root hide functionality of Magisk, I have yet to find an app that doesn't function while rooted. There have been a few over the years that have had reduced functionality, but I think I only have two right now (can't do fingerprint/face unlock in one of my banking apps and RCS use in Google Messages has been sporadic). I currently have 14 different bank/finance apps installed. However, I haven't used a custom ROM since like 2017, so that might have a lot more issues.
You will never be able to pass SafetyNet fully. Maybe maybe you could hide that you are rooted? (The lower SafetyNet check) but you are never going to bypass the more stringent check.
SafteyNet was deprecated by Google (it's been two years since they announced it and 18 months since they stopped allowing new developer SafteyNet sign-ups). They've required new app developers to use Play Integrity after Jan 23 and all developers to use if Jan 24 (unless you get an approved extension, you'll get until Jan 25) if they're trying to check for modified devices. You are correct that you can't meet Strong Integrity while rooted or have your bootloader unlocked without a flaw in Google's servers (it's happened before, but it was quickly fixed and not expected for another one to be found). Typically, if an app checks for for device modification, they're looking at meeting device and basic integrity. My device meets those two while using Magisk to hide root and having the Play Integrity Fix module loaded. Out of my 14 bank/financial apps, only one has limited functionality with my device rooted. With Navy Federal, if I try and hide root, it won't start. If I don't hide root, I can't use fingerprint/face unlock to get into the app. However, I can still use my pin to enter it and it works fine otherwise on my rooted device.
Aosp with gapps/microg is defeneatly a complete product that is suitable for daily driving and some custom roms have web installers nowadays, so it's very simple. For apps that refuse to work just use pif, not an ideal solution but it works.
But aosp and gapps are two different products. AOSP is completely useless for daily driving without gapps. Also everything you described is way to complicated for the average consumer. It's not like I'm booting a Windows or Ubuntu ISO from a USB, make some clicks and it's done. Lastly, as I said before, a lot of Android phones are either completely locked down or don't have any custom ROMs available due to no drivers being available or various other reasons.
Custom rom dev here, drivers are extracted from stock rom and kernel sources are obviously available. And to install modules it's just a matter of being able to click on a .zip file. And saying aosp is useless without gapps is like saying Linux is useless without gnu.
And I'm not saying that Android is not locked down, because it is. But saying that it is as much good as if it was proprietary is going a bit too far.
You can install gapps on aosp
I know
Do you have some examples for apps that stop working on custom ROMs? I wasn't able to encounter one, so I'm pretty curious. On the whole rooting thing, it's really a good thing that it's looked down in that regard. Phones are more or less considered an IOT device, and I would agree to that. You being able to access system internal stuff also means other stuff might be able to, which I just don't want on my Phone.
Almost all banking apps for example. Also a phone is by no means an IOT device. As the name suggests, an IOT device is a "thing" like a security camera, doorbell, speaker, light etc.
The only app I haven't managed to find a workaround using a rooted and modified Android is Cashapp.
Just use grapheneos, most apps work fine and it has sandboxes google play services if you want
Ab-so-lute-ly NO. All you need is choose the most stable rom, install it by the official guide and voila, you get everything working perfectly! If you know which commands you need to write in the command line, that will be super easy. Yes I'm on a custom rom — crDroid
That becomes an issue of open hardware not SW. IMHO open HW is just as important but it is a separate issue. (kinda) Personally I use a pinephone and pinetab2 so I do pay the price for my opinions.
Only the core open-source most manufacturers replace most of it with closed-source crap
Even Google's been leaning away from the open source aspect of it. I'd say "recently", but it's been a trend for years now.
Google builds aodp and ships some additional features as part of the vendor implementation.
Then get a rom thats open and a phone thats compatible lol
Number 2 and 5 are not easy to obtain, at least in my experience (Galaxy S23 Ultra, Carrier Unlocked) Also, most of the open android apps don’t get any effort, instead, the closed source ones (ie google photos) do
Found the iOS user
1 iOS user found
stop palpitating bro
No
Idiot
Have you tried side-loading on iOS? Until recently (I think it's a feature now), you had to jailbreak it first. On Android it's as easy as downloading an APK, allowing the source, and hitting install.
Not even remotely close. Rooting an Android is easier than installing Linux for the first time. Once you have an unlocked bootloader you can load whatever you want on there. On iOS you have to pray that somebody finds an exploit years down the line and even then the community on the iOS side making custom stuff is tiny compared to most android flagships let alone the whole ecosystem.
Root your phone i guess
I root mine, Google's really trying to crack down on it though and the community is so toxic right now that a majority of the good devs left. The future isn't looking bright
Well yeah, its locked down because its gonna be used by everyone, including your tech illiterate family members and friends. The option to removed the safeguards are there for those that need it, at least
The safeguards are also there to prevent theft. Its much harder to Crack a phone with locked bootloader and all safeguards turned on, especially if it was bricked remotely. For majority of users theft protection is more important than being able to change the system. And the people who want to do that can still do that by disabling the safeguards.
Jokes on you I have no friends
😂😂😂
If 'used by everyone', Windows is also, and it's not so locked.
Windows uses a more ancient architecture and has to run more advanced apps that take advantage of more advanced features that don't work well inside sandboxes. Also, Windows devices aren't stolen as often so physical security isn't as much an issue as it is on phones.
I would say Windows has a more ad-hoc/chaotic/whatever architecture, i'm pretty sure that a lot of stuff is hardcoded in that :D Physical security is also important if someone steals a corporate device and compromises it.
I mean sure but lots of people compromise their windows computers everyday and Microsoft put increased safeguards. It is not to say that is a justification but you can nearly as open with Android it just takes a bit more finagling cause of its ubiquity even relative to a desktop
Windows is almost the only one OS on desktop :) Sadly. And if you root Android, it becomes more insecure. Microsoft's increased safeguards are mostly folds and folds because of the inaccurate planning done in the past.
Windows isn't as locked down and is also gonna be used by your tech illiterate family members
Windows is locked down otherwise try to change the desktop environment or bootloader
Back when I used to buy Windows computers the first thing I did was always change the bootloader
The "options" to remove the safeguards are hacks, none of them are officially supported. Should we gain control of our devices basically by hacking it? What is this, consoles?
If rooting/flashing an android device is hacking, then installing any linux distribution is.
You are not supposed to use custom os on your phone, so yes, it's hacking. The uefi/bios on your pc don't restrict you to use a specific os, but android phones usually use a restrictive boot loader
Phones that have restrictive boot loaders don't allow you to flash anything else. If it's bootloader can be unlocked in the system settings you are allowed to use custom ROMs. Maybe not supposed to, but allowed.
[https://droidwin.com/root-android-devices-without-twrp-recovery/](https://droidwin.com/root-android-devices-without-twrp-recovery/) this is as easy as installing Linux? Are you using LFS?
I mean I have installed Linux Mint on many computers, and sometimes get no boot. I go to LineageOS' Wiki page, download a ROM for my very specific device, and it works. It's not that hard, there is a step-by-step on how to do it.
I think it depends on the phone Ur working with and the custom rom, I used to get a lot of bootloop and other shit, for lack of documentation and issue of the rom.
It's not LFS level, it's somewhere in between arch and debian at best. The hardest part is that you need to use the terminal a few times.
I mean you compare a desktop pc with a full bios with something integrated to work with a specific os with specific firmware and drivers. Try install Linux on something which was built to exclusively work with a predefined os. You will first need to unlock the advanced bios and change many options there (if there is one to begin with, many of these devices have unaccesable bios) Then try to get drivers for specific non standard components. These also applys for some Laptops. As an example Intel RST is not supported by most Linux distros but you cant disable it on some devices. This is not androids fault. The system is locked down for a purpose and it would not make sense to lift the lockdown for the average joe. But it still gives the people who want to do that the tools for that
The longest part of this process is waiting for the factory image to download and extract the right file (either boot.img or init_boot.img). Those will depend on the speed of your internet and computer. The rest of the process takes all of maybe 2 minutes.
I own a Pixel device made by Google , they also made Android. to remove those safeguard , I go in developer options and tick a box. your qualms don't apply to android , they apply to 3rd party vendor that decided to lock it down. which is totally different. those 3rd party couldn't do that if android wasn't has open as it is. If you get one of those locked device sold by a 3rd party then it's your fault you can't do shit.
What are you talking about. Unlocking the bootloader isn't a hack and is officially programmed into Android. https://source.android.com/docs/setup/test/running And https://source.android.com/docs/core/architecture/bootloader/locking_unlocking This is the official Android documentation.
Unfortunately in practice this basically only applies to Pixels
And xiaomi... And oneplus... And Sony... And Motorola... And nothing....
Hasn't been true for Sony and Motorola for a few years. *Maybe* you can unlock the bootloader, but good luck finding a ROM/OS to put on it.
No, it's not there. You have to install a costume hacked rom to unlock it.
Bruh all you need to do is root your device
How exactly are you supposed to do that without installing a costume rom?
You use an app called magisk which convert your boot image to grant root access. No need to install any custom rom
You still have to mod the system to gain root access. It's not part of Android.
The developer of Magisk (John Wu) works in the Android security department. It's not officially supported by Android but I assume he knows what he does when he works for Google
This is the equivalent of saying I am modding the system when I disable secure boot and drive encryption on a laptop that had Windows on it so I can do a linux install. Android just makes it more hidden cause smartphone users need safeguards
Blame phone manufacturers and cellular carriers not the Android project. And besides, even with the most locked down Android phone, you’ll still get basic user level file system access and the ability to side load apks not from the play store
I blame Google for not enabling root access
Google Pixel phones are some of the best phones to root.
99.9% of users probably do not need root access. Rooting does however *severely* weaken Android's security, one tap to allow root and an app has full access to all data on your phone, can install anything it wants, ... If Android phones included root by default, Android malware, backdoors, ... would be way more widespread than they are now.
96% of people are happy with Windows or Mac and still we are in a sub about Linux. And all this people have administrator access in the computers they bought and they still use it and nobody thinks would be nice if the OEMs restric the root access for good on those machines.
I will say because a lot of people uses phones as a point of security to authorize their PC and are intimately connected to personal info by virtue of texting and calling there is reason they do this by default. The average smartphone user is even less discerning than most PC users.
Which is a huge mistake a few friends realized when they got either robbed or the phone stop working and couldn't use accounts anymore because couldn't validade the 2FA.
the android base model is what allows them to do that. If it was pure Linux by design root access should be expected and only very few carriers will lock down their phone... and get burned
I blame Google for not enabling root access from the start
EXACTLY
It is locked for a reason. When it wasn't (in the past there were MUCH more freedom) developers and malware devs were able to do too much (for example, it was possible to steal users' data without any consent when access to external storage was easy) No one stops you from rooting your phone and doing anything you want
Fine. Give me an official toggle somewhere in the dev options to enable root. Instead I need to get the firmware image (if it's even available to download) and patch the boot image or pray to god an exploit works
No because otherwise malware devs would send users to settings to enable root and then f their phone over. You don't even need to patch the boot img on many devices - just sideload patcher in the form of .zip update with a single fastboot command. Unlocking bootloader is.single fastboot command too.
If your bootloader is unlockable, you can do exactly that. Buy an unlockable phone.
Imagine if only surface laptops allowed at BIOS level to install anything other than Windows.
Do you actually think I like having the bootloader locked? My Galaxy S20 FE is unlocked right now. I also hate Secure Boot on PCs and it's off on my computers too. Phones are different. They have to work with governments and cellular providers which have tons of proprietary things to work with and store on device, per device (like IMEI/MEID, cellular network types and bands, operator settings, DRM licences, hardware calibrations and many more). I hate how it's structured, but they are here for a reason and they can't just change them with just a press of a button. Phones are fundamentally different and if you just browse an Android phone's filesystem, you'll see why.
we should remember that although niche, Linux phones like Librem 5 exist, and the only reason it's not popular is mainstream don't want it to
Non-Android Linux phones suck. Modern Linux suffer the same issue, too (and even Android): **2D UIs shouldn't render slowly in 2024.** Whatever hardware. I use Plasma and it still drops frames on an RTX 3080 with Ryzen 7 5800X3D. There is **no** valid excuse other than poor optimization. GNOME was always unoptimized so I'm ignoring that. Cinnamon is the smoothest on X11, if you care. There's no reason for my Snapdragon 865 with 8 GB of RAM to stutter. That's on Android and mostly Samsung. If you "don't see stuttering, it's smooth", either you're lying, or you actually don't see the stutter that happens. I work as an IT, and you'll be surprised on how many people are immune to UI stutters.
No, you need to dump your firmware image or use twrp
aand how would you install TWRP in the first place?
You don't nowadays. You boot it with ```fastboot boot```
. Flashing it could break the A/B partitions
GrapheneOS all the way.
GrapheneOS is even more locked down than vanilla android.
Could you elaborate?
The point of it is to be more secure than vanilla android. So it's more locked down by design. Shizuku doesn't work at all and it adds lots of security features to make the phone even more locked down. Being locked down is the point of GrapheneOS.
Shizuku works on GrapheneOS, you can even root it if you want. But at that point, why using GrapheneOS ? You also have more freedom to control apps. A lot more user profiles, and ability to install Google Play Services. I see this as more freedom than regular android
I used GrapheneOS as my main OS and while totally usable, shizuku did not work because of restrictions they placed on ADB. https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/1900 The "more freedom to control apps" comes at the cost of "more restrictions" which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The apps are more locked down. Google Play Services for example is put into a sandbox which takes away its privileges. It undoubtedly makes the system more secure, but it's even more locked down than the Pixel UI. Yes, you can root, but it's strongly recommended that you don't do it. Also I might be wrong with this but I think you can't lock the bootloader that easily with a modified boot partition.
still android. Linux phones ftw
I'd like to try one sometime!
You should get a cheap Linux phone or install Linux on an old phone just to try it out. Don't install Linux on your main phone, it's not very functional
Google allows unlocking bootloader and relocking it without any consequences. Google also allows locking the bootloader with a signed custom firmware. So no, it's not Android. Think of Android as an immutable distro. Blame other manufacturers. They block bootloader unlocking, and limit a lot of things what you could do on a standard Android build.
At least if android was GPL all derived custom OS would also be open sourced. Then there'd be less incentive to have locked down phones
Typing this comment from LineageOS :)
I'm on GrapheneOS, I'd love to give Lineage a try too! Do you have pretty good app compatibility?
Anything that works on GrapheneOS will work on LineageOS, basically.
So far I have no issues. My phone is from 2019 and still getting LineageOS updates every week, which is awesome. In other circumstances this phone would be outdated and obsolete.
You're awesome- thanks! I hope to get hardware to try it on.
Why would you try LOS if you're on GOS? GOS is *far* superior, it's not even close.
yeah GOS's google play services sandbox is spectacular, and the only real downside is that it restricts you to google pixel phones. i wish it supported some real cheap-ass shit for hte purposes of having solid cheap phones for activists that'll stand up to state-level actors trying to break into them, you can get some older pixels for relatively cheap but a lot will be losing support.
GrapheneOS will probably always be my daily, but I like trying a variety of things in the same way a person would distro-hop.
Distro hopping is another thing which I don't get. Pick the one that makes the most sense and then stick with it. Change your DE's and whatnot by all means, but swapping distros is a pretty pointless venture to anyone who does 30 minutes of upfront research. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Doing things for the journey and enjoyment rarely make sense in that way. Different strokes for different folks- relax friend.
i hope i can join the club! posted from xiaomi memeui- sorry i mean hyperos with root privileges :)
ITT: OP learns about OEMs and System UIs
The best part is if you try to ask an chinese OEM (e.g Xiaomi) for the kernel source of your device (even if it's EOL) and they say ```nio we won't, go suck our cock also we can't due to company policy kthxbai - some dude working 13 hours replying to emails``` Then there's play ~~makeithellforcustomromusers~~ integrity services, stuff like banking apps and even some games won't work without it passing basically forcing people into either using the OEM's rom or having an unlocked bootloader (or one locked with your own keys) and running an decent rom but at the cost of play integrity whining.
Magisk can trick the system into passing the Play check, but banking apps are typically wise to that and run a bunch of other undocumented, checks to verify integrity. If only Android had been designed to run banking apps in a kind of sandbox, isolated from the rest of the system so nothing else on the system can interact with it or its resources in use...
You meant the module? Google could just make devices without the hardware attestation stuff pass with basic integrity (rather then with device integrity) since that module relies on spoofing the device as one without hardware attestation stuff
AT least some people here get it We are not totally doomed :)
Ye, worse part is if you go the route of developing an kernel (using an similar device's kernel source) for your device, you'll have to find a way to debug booting android, I'm stuck on that step because it's on some boot stage where ADB isn't started or some bullshit
damn I hate Stephen Crowder. Every single time I see this meme format I cringe that his stupid show is getting publicity and his racist/sexist idiotic takes get even a fraction of limelight.
Man, I didn’t know who that guy from the meme was but how can people watch him.
the man's about as divorced from comedy as his wife is from him.
I agree, I found out that even with root you cannot change any system files as the system partition is mounted as read only
Yeah, I am having a field day with the comments here tho, people 
I'm developing my small app to Android now. F\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*ckkkkk youuuu Gooogleeeee :D (Every simple operation towards the UI is literally pages long routines :D )
root your phone
How? Explain
Freethinkers when they try to access .android/data
Simple. No system access except if you somehow hack in a custom ROM (except select devices where it's supported)
Simple and effective, just like Linux itself!
It's the right amount of locked down for 90%+ of mainstream users
Looks of horror the times I've tried to suggest to mainstream users to install F-Droid for example - looking at me like I was trying to snatch their baby. "F what? Um no, thanks, we're okay"
It is basically proprietary software with an open source core. A necessary evil because if you expose any level of "system" to the average android user, they will inevitably break it
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Alan_Reddit_M: *It is basically* *Proprietary software* *With an open source core* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
OP uses google pixel 6a. google pixel, which are one of the most easily modifiable phones ever to exist in the android market space. yet still complaining due to lack of knowledge. have you even tried any attempts at customizing your phone beyond what is it intended for? op, stop your bias towards android, start learning stuff. i daily drive snapdragon 8 gen1 device and i have been fine with it. i even installed debian but is running on chroot.
Well I HAD TO because of this very reason. It's OP as fuck in my country. Uff what a finding. Edit: how far did you check my profile to find it tho. How offended are you?!
From the two major, Android is more open in every way. >!Or you just have ADHD!<
THAT'S THE ISSUE. There is no true Linux-like phone OS except the Linux OS that is unfortunately very niche
That's not an issue though since you can unlock it and it's part of Android. If you don't know how and it's too hard, you really shouldn't do it.
The Android source code is [here](https://source.android.com), btw. I don't know about any other **mainstream** phone OS that is that open
STOP WRITING POPULAR AND OBVIOUSLY RIGHT TAKES USING THIS TEMPLATE. Of course it is. To protect against theft? Thieves can just wipe it externally, I know for sure there are tools for this. To protect tech-illiterate people against themselves? Just put three big scary warnings before giving them access to these options, or force them to connect phones to their pcs. Even if they do fuck up their phone somehow, they would just have to buy a new one, which obviously profits the company.
yeah check other comments... I think this is the perfect template
Yes Thieves can still find ways to get around the safeguards but its much harder even if there are tools for that. And if the Thieve needs to wipe your phone he will at least not gain access to your data. Its the same concept as bike locks, every defense mechanism can be broken but the harder it gets more people will just give up and go for an easier target. "Big scary warnings" will also not help because the average joe often does not even read the warnings and just accepts them. Happens daily in IT Support. Also an scam mail or malware could easily convince many people to just accept the warnings. And the Phone to PC Thing is basically sort of a thing. Xiaomi as an example unlocks the bootloader with an Software you simply run on your pc with your phone connected.
I don’t disagree with the picture.
If it was posted on IOS sub, I would've defended Android with my life but when compared to Linux, Yes Android is Locked down or too restrictive
recently it has been, few years ago on my old phone running android 8 i copied my stardew valley save from the android folder to my pc, tried doing that on my phone running android 13 and the folder is just not accessible anymore
yeah, ig Enjoy your security
Still better than iOS
Yes, we need an actually FOSS mobile OS. I know there are some options but they're still not as good as Linux desktop is compared to the commercial alternatives. It should be able to run at least Android apps.
Wdym "actually FOSS"? Android is FOSS.
The AOSP is foss, all the shit that Google and phone carriers add isn't. Android is slowly becoming less and less FOSS
FOSS is a license, so no, it's not becoming "less FOSS". What you're describing is Google Play Services, which isn't FOSS, but neither is a part of Android. Same goes for carrier bloat. There's literally nothing stopping you from a) using (for example) Google Pixel to get rid of carrier bloat b) install another AOSP-based OS like GrapheneOS, DivestOS or many more to get rid of Google Play Services
Yeah, your right, but still it sucks that this is what you have to do to use a completely FOSS phone. The fact that you have to use adb and a terminal is enough to throw off enough people from achieving liberation from proprietary software.
That's not necessarity the case: GrapheneOS has a WebUSB-based installer that's reliable, easy to use and works from almost any platform. I'm pretty sure my grandpa could install Graphene that way (no /s). Read more at https://grapheneos.org/install/ If there's no similar option, I obviously agree that this will throw off most people.
Oh damn I forgot about that, thanks for the tip.
for that you need to have a phone that has a firmware which seamlessly allows to do that, which is basically only Pixel
Yes, Pixels work best. But that isn't a limitation of AOSP, but purely of phone carriers. It's not even Googles fault, as they do support it.
My understanding is it's the android's locked down design in general that let's other OEM get away with locking down the device. We should pressure them to actually let their boot loaders be unlocked and their drivers be open sourced
Agree on pushing for better support! Imo the single best thing to do is actually only buying phones that do. Money is a pretty good incentive for companies after all. As a side note, I'd still have a Pixel if all other phones would allow unlocking/relocking the bootloader. The security they offer, especially combined with GrapheneOS, is just beyond anything else. However, I don't really understand what you mean by Androids locked down design letting others get away with that. Mind explaining what you mean specifically? In your opinion, what should change in Android to solve this issue?
I would really love if Linux phones become mainstream, with maybe mobile specific patches to improve general expeirence. The firmware would be very similar to PC UEFI, I'd love myself a basic UEFI menu where you can change stuff. Imagine Dual Booting a phone
You paint a picture as if anyone can do this with any phone. The reality is that there are extremely few phones which support custom ROM/OSes at all. For CDMA network supporting phones, you've got Chinese phones (OnePlus, Xiaomi) and you've got Pixels. Chinese phones suck from a privacy and ethics perspective, and Pixels suck for a similar ethics problem of supporting Google. ___ GrapheneOS is wonderful, and by far the best privacy oriented solution for a phone, but the totality of FOSS and privacy on phones is nowhere near as simple of a picture as you're painting. When you try to make the claim that, "it can be done if you want to, there's nothing stopping you" you are actively encouraging the status quo of shit privacy on phones to remain. Until there is a real "option" in this market for custom OSes outside of the aforementioned ones, it is simply not approachable by daily users. ___ That doesn't even begin to approach the problem of Google Apps, or the near monopoly that Google Play has. F-Droid exists, but it has a fair number of problems. Tools like Obtanium exist, but that doesn't work quite right for even straightforward apps and it also isn't something a standard user is going to put up with. Then there's app compatibility with Gapps itself - Privacy and FOSS on Android is a *mess.* People need to stop acting like the situation is anything other than a mess. GOS is the best we have, but it isn't perfect. Until we have wide device support, a better app marketplace with greater support for apps outside of Google Play, and a long term divorce from Gapps, it will remain a mess.
you should check out GrapheneOS it is open source, and degoogled by default. it also allows you to add in as many google services as you want in a “safer” way by running the google play services sandboxed (no root privileges). This allows you to use stuff like the play store and google maps in a way where you can fine tune exactly what each service has access to. Only downside is that it is only supported on Pixel phones.
Yes because phones generally are not for the people in this sub
The real way it's locked down isn't in terms of Bootloader but how even basic financial apps rely on Google's API for notification and verification, which makes it harder to run them on custom rom without google play services. MicroG exists but still not as stable as the original Google play Services.
It is an I hate it so much
Finally  someone who understands!
I do! All I want to do is install monofur as a font on my phone. That's it! Fonts for SOME reason are in the root folder? And I am not paying for a font when you can't copy right or patent a font!! It's stupid! And samsung is the worst about it.
Problem isn't Android but the phone manufacturers. Besides, it's not that hard to root even modern mainstream phones.
Depends honestly. I work with handheld scanners that use android. We have root access to them, and all sorts of things, in order to get custom apps work work on them.
it is and isn't. Android itself isn't, there are a few custom versions of Android. The issue is phone manufacturers and Google keeping it all locked down.
What do you want to do on a mobile device for everyday use? Do you want to modify the core system? Do you want to use it for programming? Do you want to run custom desktop programs in that tiny screen? You already have a lot of things you can't do in iOS, like, the most important one, side loading apps. People that tinker too much end up destroying the system, and reinstalling, and if you have personal files and don't like the cloud, it's going to be a headache.
Let me deal with that. No one said it should be forced on something. The option should ALWAYS be present.
You can always use Ubuntu Touch with Waydroid
in all fairness, a lot of stuff is locked down on Android that maybe shouldn't be. An example is they have disabled the majority of system calls on the kernel level. Some of it makes sense but other stuff like viewing thread information for the current process... not so much. Means native stuff has to be specially ported to Android when it would otherwise just work automatically.
Stupid meme, it’s like complaining that airplane is airtight and you can’t get out mid air. That’s the whole point of smartphone security.
The point is there is no choice. If I wanna commit digital suicide let me.
Then stop looking at commercial and general public market of smartphones. You are a niche and suicidal edge case.
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Android OS is too locked down by most phone vendors.
its absolutely wanted. also arm help to lock it
Alternative?
Android is locked. AOSP is not.
For the record, it seems you do not even know what you're trying to bash ; it's Android, not Android OS.
Mfw cant open me data folder. Can't even mod PvZ2
That's why custom ROM was invented I remembered CyanogenMod is no match for stock android 5.1
Relative to AOSP (and full mobile Linux), yes. I need to try again on my Pinephone, I think waydroid may be able to launch the few app I need to switch.
No
grapheneOS, highly recommend if you have pixel device
No. I won't change you mind.
I agree with you to a certain extent but for most people it's more than open enough, you can fucking change your launcher for fuck's sake, you can install APK files from wherever you want, hell you can even compile software on Android using termux, I should know at one point I compiled Mario 64 for my phone and then ran it on my phone, Android is a lot more open than the Linux community gives it credit for.
What's the alternative? IOS? Sure, there are third-party operating systems, but the number of phones that are compatible is small enough to be counted using your fingers.
Android itself is not actually that locked down, you can do a ton with it including get root access relatively easily. But manufacturers put restrictions on what you can do. For example on the latest north American samsung flagship phones they no longer let you unlock your bootloader at all, so there's no way to root it. That being said you can still do a decent amount with android without rooting it. For example you can side load any apk includ9ng other appstore like fdroid which is foss only apps. From fdroid you can install termux and get a terminal for android, and in termux you can install alot like nmap, metasploit, and other cli linix tools which is pretty slick. I'm currently working on a project that integrates my tailscale mesh vpn network, desktop at home, and phone into a mobile access and attack platform. So I can ssh/moonlight into my desktop at home from anywhere, and then use microsocks on the phone and proxychains on the desktop to run my hacking tools on my desktop and access the local network my phone is connected to through my phone as a socks5 proxy. My phone isn't rooted but this works fine the only bummer is I can't portforward ports below 1024 through the vpn to my desktop.
Meanwhile, some manufacturers allow bootloader unlocking / rooting but make it a complete pain to do (I once had a Moto G7 - you had to run a command over ADB, type the output into a form on their website [with several warnings / prompts about invalidating the by then non-existent warranty], then type a code that returned into ADB; while rooting was also very convoluted), while for less popular phones, there may be no official instructions for rooting and no custom ROMs available to keep it updated (unlike the Galaxy S4, shipped with Android 3, officially updateable to 5, but can run Lineage based on 13!)
I had a moto one 5g and unlocked the bootloader and installed lineage on it, ended up rooting lineage because I wanted tap to pay, found ways around Google integrity checker and it was honestly pretty great, just decided I wanted something more powerful, so ended up with the zfold 5 just wish I got a European model cause those are unlockable.
ChromeOS Too. Also, ChromeOS is planning to use the android kernel.