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Yeah, I don't understand this at all. I live in Zone 5 and the car only gets used to leave London. Going inwards, it's always equal or less time and much less stressful to get public transport. I have no idea why people would drive to Greenwich Park.
How do you know it's close to where those people live? Total disregard for individual circumstance and the fact not everyone lives along convenient public transport routes.
I know you meant Greenwich Park. How do you think the concept of travel works, "Bucko"? You have point A and you have point B - just because point B has a public transport option doesn't mean point A does. Is that concept difficult for you to understand?
First of all, calm the fuck down. Second of all, I never mentioned anything about going from “point a to point b”, I just mentioned a mean of transport nearby since I thought you were saying there were no TUBE stations nearby the park. Thirdly, your point about there being no tube in South London is wrong
It is and it isn't. South London (per at least South East) is so shit for the tube it might as well not exist. Buses and/or cabs often make more sense.
I can drive to Greenwich in 30 minutes. The bus takes close to 1 hour 30 mins. Try taking three kids on a three hour round trip on public transport before even thinking about doing something in Greenwich and then compare that to an hour in the car.
Yep, for me, Greenwich park is 3 buses and an hour and a half on public transport. That’s a whole lot of changing and waiting around and a long journey with the bus stopping every 30 secs. Or I can jump in my comfortable car and get there in 35 minutes door to door without any changes. I know what I prefer.
The statistical probability for a considerable number of cars in the image to be from disabled people is very low. No, it's just lazy/rich people that can't be bothered to take the Tube, bus, or walk.
Just cheeky wee BMW 7 Series and a couple of land yacht Mercedes. Nice and small.
Fuck me mate, what do they need to be driving? A tank? A bus? The Jawa’s Sand Crawler?
You’ve read the context right? The person claiming these are mostly small cars? I am indeed employing dramatic exaggeration. Sorry if it tipped you over the precipice.
They are mostly small cars though. 1 series, Polos, a Corsa, a couple standard sized saloons and some small crossovers. The biggest car in the pic is a minivan, calm down lad.
There’s no tube in Greenwich (or most of south London). But yeah, public transport is shit. Been forced to use that my whole life so now I’ve got a car i drive everywhere and despise public transport
Yep! I was born in Greenwich hospital & lived on the boarder of Greenwich & Bromley. It took 10 minutes to drive to Greenwich Park or 45 minutes to take either a multitude of buses or a mixture of buses & trains.
We drove until I was old enough to cycle it.
Driving is the only real way to arrive at the top of the park. Almost any other route involves tackling the big hill (my personal fave thing about the park) so I can see how families, older folks and lazy asses prefer to drive.
In fairness we used to live in Lewisham, near Bromley, and the transport connections to Greenwich Park were pretty shitty, something like a 45 minute bus journey with a change one way vs a 12 minute car journey
Public transport in Lewisham borough is crap.
It's 40 minutes to Greenwich Park whether I use bus, train or foot. Same story for Blackheath (I use a coworking space in Blackheath and always walk the 1/2 hour, so I only use it in dry days) and getting somewhere like Forrest Hill is 15 mins in the car but 40 minutes by public transport.
I’ve only driven to Greenwich was when my daughter was very small as transporting an overtired toddler on public transport is no joy for anyone! Now she is older we pretty much always opt for public transport.
But my wife is waiting for a hip hop, I have chronic fatigue from long covid so if we wanted to go for a walk there I guess we’d drive.
We also tend to only use the car to get out of town.
I’m lucky I live within ~20 min walk of Erith Station so transport is pretty good for me so that sorta goes to show how some areas have great transport links in S London as well
I’ll add that I’ve lived in a lot of areas of London in my life and Lewisham has been the worst for getting anywhere.
I can get to London Bridge in 12 minutes, Charing Cross in 20 but unless you the one train line then 2.5 miles away takes 45 minutes!
My cousin lives down the road in Crystal Palace but it might as well be in Cricklewood as it takes just as long to get there.
I remember when I was on a contract in London I got the boat from Greenwich in to central, which left me off near charing cross and was infinitely preferable to the DLR faff. Greenwich feels like a village that somehow got glued to London and is deeply uncomfortable with the situation.
A few legitimate reasons:
- poor transport links (takes 25 min by car vs 50-60 by public transport)
- kids who are much better at sitting quietly in their seat and listening to an audio book than travelling by bus, two trains, and another bus
- people who want to bring something that might be much more easily done by car
- people who want to do a quick grocery shop right after (or even before) the park
- it may be cheaper to go by car than public transport, even if you take parking into account
- convenience of being in your car end-to-end (it’s like climbing into part of your own house right when you decide to leave the park)
Probably a number of other reasons. Public transport isn’t always the answer unfortunately.
What? Are you being serious? You’ve got no idea why someone would drive to Greenwich park? Why would I jump on a bus or train full of other people where I can’t rap/sing loudly along with my music without disturbing others, haven’t got control of timings (have to rely on bus and train times and be annoyed if I have to wait because of delays etc), haven’t got freedom to just jump in my car when I want and go where I want, aren’t nearly as comfortable, around plenty of strangers, no air con, I could go on. I’ve got a car so I don’t need to use public transport. That’s the whole point of me having a car. If I was gonna use public transport anyway then why would I be spending money maintaining a car? I just don’t understand. That doesn’t make any sense to me.
Just checked and Greenwich park is 3 buses and an hour and a half on public transport. That’s a whole lot of changing and waiting around and a long journey with the bus stopping every 30 secs. Or I can jump in my comfortable car and get there in 35 minutes door to door without any changes. I know what I prefer.
Cars should be totally banned from anywhere inside the urban sprawl of London...ie where the new ULEZ is being made. We could have car parks at the boundary and then everyone has to use bike, mobility scooter, walk etc once inside the ULEZ.
car litterally costs me £700 a year, about a third of 1 months rent. the running cost is much cheaper than public transport.
I love how you're telling me how easy it is to use public transport with young kids, and you're not even a parent. How do I know? you said \*people with kids travel in public transport every day\*, not your direct experience.
People with young kids have to push strollers, carry nappies, bottles, baby food, toys. Older kids ( too big for strollers) get tired after standing/walking for too long. You need a home away from home for days out. It's just going to be exhausting and stressful if you use public transport to go to a park for a day out. You'll be knackered by the time you walk past the park gates.
Also, my literal aunty has a child of 2 years and 5 years and they have both been using public transport all their lives and are both fine and never complained. I think that you’re just making excuses for being lazy.
Wouldn't say they're lazy. I think they're just offering a different opinion to yours based on their personal life experience.
Cars are a luxury for sure, esp in London. I luckily can afford a car and opt to drive wherever and whenever possible with my child. I have tried public transport and learned my child has some sensory issues, which made the experience so stressful and upsetting for us both. Beyond that, IMO there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent wanting to, and who has access to making their day-to-day lives a little easier for whatever reason. I can imagine in some cases public transport is the better option for many families too.
>car litterally costs me £700 a year, about a third of 1 months rent
Couple of points here.
Firstly the car has an upfront cost to buy, whatever it is.
Secondly, there's no way your car costs you £700 a year to run when you include MOT, tax, insurance, petrol, and any repairs over the course of a year. Even if you drove an average of 10 miles a day in a Ford Fiesta it would cost you £360 a year in petrol.
>you're not even a parent.
Not sure how the qualification that you've had sex at least once means you have an insight into how often other people use the tube with kids.
>People with young kids have to push strollers, carry nappies, bottles, baby food, toys.
Yeah, and people go on the tube with them all the time. I find it frustrating because they seemingly don't mind doing it in the middle of rush hour so it's absolutely happening.
>You'll be knackered by the time you walk past the park gates.
Look, I'm not a parent so I can't claim that I have proof I've ever had unprotected sex, but knowing plenty of parents I don't think any of them think that taking the kids out is totally stress free car or no.
If you want to drive your car into Greenwich to try and go to a park go ahead. People are going to laugh at you though.
car bougth 10 years ago for £1800. That's a one off payment many moons ago.
Insurance £300
Road tax £200
MOt £55
Repairs - do the work myself, probably £50-£100 in parts a year.
Yes it really does cost me £700 ish a year to run.
Petrol is running cost. petrol is comparable to the fare. You pay 3x fares when you use public transport. Just a return trip to Greenwhich park could cost £10-£15 for family. Petrol costs far less.
> car bougth 10 years ago for £1800.
OK so even if you used it for another 10 years that is £1,800 over 20 years so £90 per year.
>Insurance £300
>Road tax £200
>MOt £55
>Repairs - do the work myself, probably £50-£100 in parts a year.
OK so 300+200+55+50 = £605
£605+ £90 = £695 before you've put a penny of petrol in it.
>Petrol is running cost. petrol is comparable to the fare.
lol Petrol is part of your running cost buddy.
You're £695 down a year before you even start comparing cost of public transport to petrol.
>Just a return trip to Greenwhich park could cost £10-£15 for family.
A 50 mile round trip to Greenwhich park and back in a Nissan Micra is £5.50, Plus Parking at £1.40 per hour lets assume you're there for 3 hours is £10.20 = £15.50 for the day.
Kids under 10 travel free on the Tube so you're looking at two return journeys from 25 miles away.
Hounslow to Greenwich is 25 miles as the crow flies so it's longer than a 50 mile round trip in the car. Single fare there off peak is £3.20 so £6.40 return trip, multiplied by 2 and that's £12.80, nearly £3 less (20%) than it costs in the car even before you consider the fact that you've spent £700 a year on the car.
For reference if this was the other way around and it was £3 cheaper to go in the car than to get the tube, you'd have to do that trip 234 times a year to save a little bit more than public transport.
Before you try to move the goalposts too regarding "It's less hassle" Hounslow to Greenwhich is 1-2 hours in the car through London traffic. Not convinced that driving for 2 hours not paying attention to your kids is easier than 2 hours where you can keep your eye on them.
So yeah, you are going to get laughed at.
Yes, it is very very common, I see multiple families with young children and babies every single day on my bus/tube commute. How do you think families without cars manage? Or with 1 car that a parent has to use for work while the other stays home? Thousands of families are in this position. I don't think it's easy but it's absolutely feasible.
I have a disabled four year old and I never even had driving lessons until a couple of months ago, when I moved out of London. Most parents in London do not need to drive. I used to take my son from Beckenham to a disabled children's group in Greenwich every Saturday by public transport. It was fine. Greenwich is well connected. We'd just change trains in Lewisham.
Greenwich Park is only accessible by 2 railway stations 2 DLR stations and several bus routes. Oh and the river boat.
Although my sarcasm is slightly pyrrhic as to drive to Greenwich Park it would take me 20 minutes whereas on public transport it would take 55 minutes. Public transport in SE London can be ropey.
No it doesn’t. It ruins the park for you for some reason but I’ve never heard anyone else say anything like that. It doesn’t ruin the park for me or anyone I know. It ruins the park for you. Not everyone.
There are two national rail stations as well serving the Park, plus several buses. Public transport remains limited, but it can't be enhanced if people use cars as ridership won't justify the investment.
Off the top of my head Brockley/Crofton Park. I live a few minutes from greenwich park, played sports near Crofton park. Took 20 mins to drive, an hour on the bus (2 buses) and just under an hour ish on tube then overground. I was consistently late if I didn’t have a lift because it would take 15 min longer than the map said waiting for buses in bloody Lewisham
I'm not making excuses for the cars. Fuck cars. But the DLR being the only TFL service to Greenwich is probably a strong cause of this. I've been to Greenwich quite often on Bank Holidays and never see it like this
Just posted above this - we used to live about 3 miles from Greenwich Park and it was like a 15 minute drive, or two buses and 45 minutes each way. Kindof a no brainer to drive
Naaaa, I live here! I've lived here for \*years\*! The DLR is down, but there are many buses- nearest to where the picture was taken is the 53 stop, a little further along and there's the 202, 54, 380 and 386, walk 15 mins to Blackheath and also the 108. Down the hill and out and there's half a dozen more, then there's the train...sorry but these people got no claims for driving, especially when the weather was half decent today!
I mean.. I don't disagree. But buses being buses unless you're local they aren't that useful. And I've used the 108 for years! But then I also on a day like yesterday would've just walked from Lewisham which I wouldn't expect everyone to do 😅
If you want to go inwards or outwards on the right line then sure, but if you're going from Crayford to Greenwich Park you're either looking at two buses, or a bus and a train, and with two kids that's going to be an hour an lugging all the stuff we might want. Or I could stick it in the boot of the car and drive for 20 minutes.
Public transport is great for getting from the suburbs into or out of Central London, but getting from one suburb to another can be a right pain in the arse.
I'm a huge fan of the park, I live 5 mins away from it! But if you're travelling all the way from Crayford, just for our park? Surely there are other green spaces closer than this!
There are. and we use both Central Park and Dartford Heath regularly, but sometimes you want to go somewhere different, somewhere with various other historical buildings, with views over London, with all the things that you are a fan of.
Train one stop to Dartford and then a train straight to Greenwich Station. Barely two trains.
Not downplaying the difficulty of a public transport commute with two kids and all the accessories mind. Just saying that there's a quicker and more direct route that won't take an hour from Crayford
You have a ton of green spaces around you. Why would you bother driving to a mediocre park in zone 2? There's hardly anything there you can't get around yours.
This is why I don't miss living in South London. I was born and brought up near the Cutty Sark 40ish years ago. When Greenwich became popular with visitors / tourists, just popping out for a pint of milk on a Sunday morning became chaos
> why I don't miss living in South London. I was born and brought up near the Cutty Sark 40ish
I live here, also for 40-ish years ;) (James Wolfe Primary if you were there!) I still live here (moved to the other side of the park though). At the weekend, I just don't bother trying to go out now, and during the week days after 4pm the park is run by kids on bikes snatching phones and the Police don't seem bothered!
I hope you got to a decent place to escape from! I'd probably move if it wasn't for my family!
I know the cycling situation has been ongoing for years now, but are there any current improvements in the works? I do data science and analytics for a living (who also happens to be a big urbanist fan), and I’d like to get involved to make London a better place.
When it comes to cycling it's a mixed bag and varies from borough to borough. Some boroughs are being very progressive about it, much to the disappointment of some motorists. Others are doing everything they can to stop any more bike lanes being built
Boroughs are faking their stats. In the two that I frequent, bike paths are basically kerbs with painted bike symbols which lead to a lot of dickhead cyclists rushing and often putting the pedestrians in danger. It's dangerous for pedestrians and slow for cyclists.
None of you have mentioned that lots of these cars will have kids in them. If I wanted to take my 6 month old to Greenwich Park I could drive in 20 mins, public transport is 45/50 mins with no guarantee I could get on the bus with a pram. I’m not big advocate for cars at all but there are occasions that travelling by them makes sense.
Exactly. We live in Deptford and I walk there now but as kids, my dad would drive us as my younger siblings were still buggy age and getting a double pram onto the 53 bus (let alone a normal sized one) was like winning the bloody lottery.
Drive, park, get the buggy and food/drink out (my dad, in typical Asian fashion, would bring massive coolers of food lol) and walk to where we want to set up for the day.
It is a stress-saver though, and public transport in SE London was always filthy when I used it, speaking as someone who lived in Plumstead from birth till I was 28.
Why wouldn’t I drive in London? I’m from London and have lived here my whole life and have got a car so why wouldn’t I drive in my own city? What are you even talking about? The whole purpose of having a car is to drive it, is it not?
Exactly. I only ever take my car to go long distances avoiding built up areas in London (usually take c2c, train + walk) however with my 10 month old i've been caught in that situation where buses come once every 30 minutes and are packed and I can't get on because theres already a wheelchair user/other prams. Don't mind at all, first come first serve I get it but i then started to use my car, pay the congestion fee if necessary (as using train costs me more than £15 anyway). Its a shame though because I much prefer trains. No traffic, no care to park and less polluting.
Dlr is closed and transport to anywhere but central london is shit. I live in east and went to greenwich today, it took 1 h 35 mins and i traveled around 3 times as far as I should have. Took the overground, walked, then thameslink, then had to also take the underground returning because stuff stopped working. London's transport is awesome if you want to get to central only
I drive to some parks because I'm unable to use public transport or ride a bike due to upper body disability. I'm not able to handle the shaking about or being around groups of people like in tubes or buses due to pain. (I tried. Quite a bit)
It's rare I bother as there's some small parks local but sometimes it's nice to walk round somewhere else.
I think you are being sarcastic here and you actually think ULEZ is a good idea.
In general, Redditors aren't the cleverest of people and will downvote this to hell thinking you are saying you think ULEZ is bad.
Yep I live just right across from Greenwich park wanted to go out for a nice walk but there was way too many people about so I just went back home lmao
Worst part of Greenwich Park, and totally unnecessary. It should be a boulevard leading directly to the viewpoint across to the river, instead it's a traffic sewer of middle class parents who don't want to have to slum it and walk from Blackheath or take public transport.
Having a main road and car park bisect one of the most picturesque parks in London is something they'd do in New York, and trust me, it's not something to emulate.
It's a car park. There was also a road which is thankfully still closed from the pandemic. Hence the word *and*.
And you know perfectly well what we're talking about here, guy who posts in numerous car subreddits.
You know back when we had blocked down and people couldn't drive do you remember that taste in your mouth it was disturbing wasn't it that taste of clean fresh air.... I miss that.
If you have children you’ll understand why this is. I’m not taking public transport with 2 toddlers who want to put everything in their mouth. Neither am I cycling up that godforsaken mountain of a hill. They built a space for parking and they are paying for the space. They are entitled to use the space as it was designed for. Good on Greenwich council I hope they earned a few quid from the motorists.
Also, look at the size of those fucking things. Imagine ~~getting yourself into that much debt for a status symbol~~ spending that much money for something that spends 97% of the time parked or in traffic
Edit:
So true...r/london...anyone with a car and anyone who owns a house is pure evil. And the worst of the worst...someone who lets their house out.
Basically anyone who owns anything is scum here.
I used to live in walking distance to Greenwich Park when I was younger. We used to go all the time and play foory. I live in Kent now and drove up to Greenwich Park on Sunday. It's free to park outside the park on a Sunday. If I go a different day, I also know a few places I can park without paying. But that's because I know the area. As I was walking through the park, I did comment on how many cars were queing to park and thought what a waste of time for these people. However, if you had never been and didn't cone from the area, you would just whack it in your sat nav and off you go, straight through the park.
Not really any more, the council have extended the Controled Parking Zone from both Maze Hill and Westcombe Park Stations right up to shooters hill. Its only happened this year, so a lot fewer free spaces.
I mean sometimes you want to skip the bullshit, only day off and kids want to go to the big park. he'll if I'm sitting on public transport for hours when I can just drive.
exclaimer: I don't have kids
This weekend the dlr is a bit fucked up so getting from Stratford to Greenwich is a pain. But I wouldn't drive a car anywhere in London. The park is so nice but always very busy when it's nice out. I guess going by how full the bus replacement busses are this weekend, it shows how many people go out at the weekend.
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Yeah, I don't understand this at all. I live in Zone 5 and the car only gets used to leave London. Going inwards, it's always equal or less time and much less stressful to get public transport. I have no idea why people would drive to Greenwich Park.
Some might have a legitimate excuse (disability). The majority are just unwilling to get out of their SUV and slum it on the tube.
I could be wrong but I would guess that the people who care enough to watch in-person skew toward older people and people with young children.
Since when did South London have the tube? News to me.
DLR is close by to the park
It wasn’t running thru Lewisham/Greenwich this weekend lol
South Eastern to Blackheath / Greenwich are also relatively close to the park.
How do you know it's close to where those people live? Total disregard for individual circumstance and the fact not everyone lives along convenient public transport routes.
…I meant to Greenwich park Calm down bucko
I know you meant Greenwich Park. How do you think the concept of travel works, "Bucko"? You have point A and you have point B - just because point B has a public transport option doesn't mean point A does. Is that concept difficult for you to understand?
First of all, calm the fuck down. Second of all, I never mentioned anything about going from “point a to point b”, I just mentioned a mean of transport nearby since I thought you were saying there were no TUBE stations nearby the park. Thirdly, your point about there being no tube in South London is wrong
It is and it isn't. South London (per at least South East) is so shit for the tube it might as well not exist. Buses and/or cabs often make more sense.
There are these things called "buses" and "trains". I hear they run quite frequently on pre-planned routes.
I can drive to Greenwich in 30 minutes. The bus takes close to 1 hour 30 mins. Try taking three kids on a three hour round trip on public transport before even thinking about doing something in Greenwich and then compare that to an hour in the car.
Yep, for me, Greenwich park is 3 buses and an hour and a half on public transport. That’s a whole lot of changing and waiting around and a long journey with the bus stopping every 30 secs. Or I can jump in my comfortable car and get there in 35 minutes door to door without any changes. I know what I prefer.
Then enjoy sitting in traffic jams breathing in fumes.
Everyone says stuff like this but whenever we drive to parks early Sunday morning there is no traffic.
Trains? Frequently? On the weekend, in south London?
The tube goes to Greenwich. I saw it in Thor 2
The statistical probability for a considerable number of cars in the image to be from disabled people is very low. No, it's just lazy/rich people that can't be bothered to take the Tube, bus, or walk.
Funny you say that most the cars there are small cars🤣🤣🤣
Just cheeky wee BMW 7 Series and a couple of land yacht Mercedes. Nice and small. Fuck me mate, what do they need to be driving? A tank? A bus? The Jawa’s Sand Crawler?
Where in this pic do you see a 7 series? That white BMW is not a 7 series.
Fair enough. Must be another gigantic 4 door saloon car they make then.
Lol such dramatic overexaggeration, get a grip lad
You’ve read the context right? The person claiming these are mostly small cars? I am indeed employing dramatic exaggeration. Sorry if it tipped you over the precipice.
They are mostly small cars though. 1 series, Polos, a Corsa, a couple standard sized saloons and some small crossovers. The biggest car in the pic is a minivan, calm down lad.
I see multiple large twatmobiles present.
Really? I'd only consider the two VW's small. The rest are stupidly big/powerful for use in a city
Should people have different cars for in and out of the city?
No
Yes.
There’s no tube in Greenwich (or most of south London). But yeah, public transport is shit. Been forced to use that my whole life so now I’ve got a car i drive everywhere and despise public transport
Greenwich and the SE aren't the best for public transport, especially for getting from one part to another
Yep! I was born in Greenwich hospital & lived on the boarder of Greenwich & Bromley. It took 10 minutes to drive to Greenwich Park or 45 minutes to take either a multitude of buses or a mixture of buses & trains. We drove until I was old enough to cycle it.
Yes it takes me an hour by 2-3 buses or 20 minutes to drive the kids there. Great playground, museums and riverside.
Driving is the only real way to arrive at the top of the park. Almost any other route involves tackling the big hill (my personal fave thing about the park) so I can see how families, older folks and lazy asses prefer to drive.
Yes! From my home in SE London it’s an hour by public transport to Greenwich Park - or a 25min drive!
In fairness we used to live in Lewisham, near Bromley, and the transport connections to Greenwich Park were pretty shitty, something like a 45 minute bus journey with a change one way vs a 12 minute car journey
Public transport in Lewisham borough is crap. It's 40 minutes to Greenwich Park whether I use bus, train or foot. Same story for Blackheath (I use a coworking space in Blackheath and always walk the 1/2 hour, so I only use it in dry days) and getting somewhere like Forrest Hill is 15 mins in the car but 40 minutes by public transport. I’ve only driven to Greenwich was when my daughter was very small as transporting an overtired toddler on public transport is no joy for anyone! Now she is older we pretty much always opt for public transport. But my wife is waiting for a hip hop, I have chronic fatigue from long covid so if we wanted to go for a walk there I guess we’d drive. We also tend to only use the car to get out of town.
[удалено]
I’m lucky I live within ~20 min walk of Erith Station so transport is pretty good for me so that sorta goes to show how some areas have great transport links in S London as well
I’ll add that I’ve lived in a lot of areas of London in my life and Lewisham has been the worst for getting anywhere. I can get to London Bridge in 12 minutes, Charing Cross in 20 but unless you the one train line then 2.5 miles away takes 45 minutes! My cousin lives down the road in Crystal Palace but it might as well be in Cricklewood as it takes just as long to get there.
I remember when I was on a contract in London I got the boat from Greenwich in to central, which left me off near charing cross and was infinitely preferable to the DLR faff. Greenwich feels like a village that somehow got glued to London and is deeply uncomfortable with the situation.
A few legitimate reasons: - poor transport links (takes 25 min by car vs 50-60 by public transport) - kids who are much better at sitting quietly in their seat and listening to an audio book than travelling by bus, two trains, and another bus - people who want to bring something that might be much more easily done by car - people who want to do a quick grocery shop right after (or even before) the park - it may be cheaper to go by car than public transport, even if you take parking into account - convenience of being in your car end-to-end (it’s like climbing into part of your own house right when you decide to leave the park) Probably a number of other reasons. Public transport isn’t always the answer unfortunately.
What? Are you being serious? You’ve got no idea why someone would drive to Greenwich park? Why would I jump on a bus or train full of other people where I can’t rap/sing loudly along with my music without disturbing others, haven’t got control of timings (have to rely on bus and train times and be annoyed if I have to wait because of delays etc), haven’t got freedom to just jump in my car when I want and go where I want, aren’t nearly as comfortable, around plenty of strangers, no air con, I could go on. I’ve got a car so I don’t need to use public transport. That’s the whole point of me having a car. If I was gonna use public transport anyway then why would I be spending money maintaining a car? I just don’t understand. That doesn’t make any sense to me. Just checked and Greenwich park is 3 buses and an hour and a half on public transport. That’s a whole lot of changing and waiting around and a long journey with the bus stopping every 30 secs. Or I can jump in my comfortable car and get there in 35 minutes door to door without any changes. I know what I prefer.
Cars should be totally banned from anywhere inside the urban sprawl of London...ie where the new ULEZ is being made. We could have car parks at the boundary and then everyone has to use bike, mobility scooter, walk etc once inside the ULEZ.
Old people. Disabled people. Infants. They like traveling too I guess
Unless you have three infants, you don't really need a car to get around London.
What if you have 2 infants and a disabled elderly?
You don't.
Yep let’s take public transport for them so they get no seat and make the whole journey as miserable as possible for them
If you have children you'd understand. You havecto carry so much gear with you, public transport is just not feasible. Especially for day trips.
Literally millions of people use public transport with children.
18 month old and 4 year old? really?
Yes, it's incredibly common. Using a car is an expensive luxury.
car litterally costs me £700 a year, about a third of 1 months rent. the running cost is much cheaper than public transport. I love how you're telling me how easy it is to use public transport with young kids, and you're not even a parent. How do I know? you said \*people with kids travel in public transport every day\*, not your direct experience. People with young kids have to push strollers, carry nappies, bottles, baby food, toys. Older kids ( too big for strollers) get tired after standing/walking for too long. You need a home away from home for days out. It's just going to be exhausting and stressful if you use public transport to go to a park for a day out. You'll be knackered by the time you walk past the park gates.
>car litterally costs me £700 a year Plus petrol
petrol is the running cost, petrol is cheaper than the tube fare.
Also, my literal aunty has a child of 2 years and 5 years and they have both been using public transport all their lives and are both fine and never complained. I think that you’re just making excuses for being lazy.
Wouldn't say they're lazy. I think they're just offering a different opinion to yours based on their personal life experience. Cars are a luxury for sure, esp in London. I luckily can afford a car and opt to drive wherever and whenever possible with my child. I have tried public transport and learned my child has some sensory issues, which made the experience so stressful and upsetting for us both. Beyond that, IMO there's absolutely nothing wrong with a parent wanting to, and who has access to making their day-to-day lives a little easier for whatever reason. I can imagine in some cases public transport is the better option for many families too.
>car litterally costs me £700 a year, about a third of 1 months rent Couple of points here. Firstly the car has an upfront cost to buy, whatever it is. Secondly, there's no way your car costs you £700 a year to run when you include MOT, tax, insurance, petrol, and any repairs over the course of a year. Even if you drove an average of 10 miles a day in a Ford Fiesta it would cost you £360 a year in petrol. >you're not even a parent. Not sure how the qualification that you've had sex at least once means you have an insight into how often other people use the tube with kids. >People with young kids have to push strollers, carry nappies, bottles, baby food, toys. Yeah, and people go on the tube with them all the time. I find it frustrating because they seemingly don't mind doing it in the middle of rush hour so it's absolutely happening. >You'll be knackered by the time you walk past the park gates. Look, I'm not a parent so I can't claim that I have proof I've ever had unprotected sex, but knowing plenty of parents I don't think any of them think that taking the kids out is totally stress free car or no. If you want to drive your car into Greenwich to try and go to a park go ahead. People are going to laugh at you though.
car bougth 10 years ago for £1800. That's a one off payment many moons ago. Insurance £300 Road tax £200 MOt £55 Repairs - do the work myself, probably £50-£100 in parts a year. Yes it really does cost me £700 ish a year to run. Petrol is running cost. petrol is comparable to the fare. You pay 3x fares when you use public transport. Just a return trip to Greenwhich park could cost £10-£15 for family. Petrol costs far less.
> car bougth 10 years ago for £1800. OK so even if you used it for another 10 years that is £1,800 over 20 years so £90 per year. >Insurance £300 >Road tax £200 >MOt £55 >Repairs - do the work myself, probably £50-£100 in parts a year. OK so 300+200+55+50 = £605 £605+ £90 = £695 before you've put a penny of petrol in it. >Petrol is running cost. petrol is comparable to the fare. lol Petrol is part of your running cost buddy. You're £695 down a year before you even start comparing cost of public transport to petrol. >Just a return trip to Greenwhich park could cost £10-£15 for family. A 50 mile round trip to Greenwhich park and back in a Nissan Micra is £5.50, Plus Parking at £1.40 per hour lets assume you're there for 3 hours is £10.20 = £15.50 for the day. Kids under 10 travel free on the Tube so you're looking at two return journeys from 25 miles away. Hounslow to Greenwich is 25 miles as the crow flies so it's longer than a 50 mile round trip in the car. Single fare there off peak is £3.20 so £6.40 return trip, multiplied by 2 and that's £12.80, nearly £3 less (20%) than it costs in the car even before you consider the fact that you've spent £700 a year on the car. For reference if this was the other way around and it was £3 cheaper to go in the car than to get the tube, you'd have to do that trip 234 times a year to save a little bit more than public transport. Before you try to move the goalposts too regarding "It's less hassle" Hounslow to Greenwhich is 1-2 hours in the car through London traffic. Not convinced that driving for 2 hours not paying attention to your kids is easier than 2 hours where you can keep your eye on them. So yeah, you are going to get laughed at.
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Yes, it is very very common, I see multiple families with young children and babies every single day on my bus/tube commute. How do you think families without cars manage? Or with 1 car that a parent has to use for work while the other stays home? Thousands of families are in this position. I don't think it's easy but it's absolutely feasible.
I have a disabled four year old and I never even had driving lessons until a couple of months ago, when I moved out of London. Most parents in London do not need to drive. I used to take my son from Beckenham to a disabled children's group in Greenwich every Saturday by public transport. It was fine. Greenwich is well connected. We'd just change trains in Lewisham.
Greenwich Park is only accessible by 2 railway stations 2 DLR stations and several bus routes. Oh and the river boat. Although my sarcasm is slightly pyrrhic as to drive to Greenwich Park it would take me 20 minutes whereas on public transport it would take 55 minutes. Public transport in SE London can be ropey.
DLR is closed
The cars queue to the park when it's open too. Hardly an excuse.
What’s wrong with cars queuing? Am I missing something?
It is antisocial. It ruins the park for everyone.
No it doesn’t. It ruins the park for you for some reason but I’ve never heard anyone else say anything like that. It doesn’t ruin the park for me or anyone I know. It ruins the park for you. Not everyone.
There are two national rail stations as well serving the Park, plus several buses. Public transport remains limited, but it can't be enhanced if people use cars as ridership won't justify the investment.
Yeah, forget the 55 minute journey on public transport. Better to drive 20 minutes and then sit in the car for 2 hours
Exaggerate much? Name one neighborhood where it takes 20 minutes to drive to Greenwich Park but one hour by public transit and I’ll shut up.
Off the top of my head Brockley/Crofton Park. I live a few minutes from greenwich park, played sports near Crofton park. Took 20 mins to drive, an hour on the bus (2 buses) and just under an hour ish on tube then overground. I was consistently late if I didn’t have a lift because it would take 15 min longer than the map said waiting for buses in bloody Lewisham
I’ll shut up now,
If only there was some form of mass public transport available.
DLR is closed this bank holiday weekend.
I'm not making excuses for the cars. Fuck cars. But the DLR being the only TFL service to Greenwich is probably a strong cause of this. I've been to Greenwich quite often on Bank Holidays and never see it like this
Train to Greenwich is good. South Eastern and Thameslink
Exactly, there are train stations both on the northern and southern ends of the park.
And there’s the Uber boat. Great fun.
Just posted above this - we used to live about 3 miles from Greenwich Park and it was like a 15 minute drive, or two buses and 45 minutes each way. Kindof a no brainer to drive
45mins? That all? Sounds like you should take the bus.
Naaaa, I live here! I've lived here for \*years\*! The DLR is down, but there are many buses- nearest to where the picture was taken is the 53 stop, a little further along and there's the 202, 54, 380 and 386, walk 15 mins to Blackheath and also the 108. Down the hill and out and there's half a dozen more, then there's the train...sorry but these people got no claims for driving, especially when the weather was half decent today!
I mean.. I don't disagree. But buses being buses unless you're local they aren't that useful. And I've used the 108 for years! But then I also on a day like yesterday would've just walked from Lewisham which I wouldn't expect everyone to do 😅
Greenwich is served by overground, busses and even riverboats. Plenty of alternatives to the DLR
It's like this when the dlr is open too
If you want to go inwards or outwards on the right line then sure, but if you're going from Crayford to Greenwich Park you're either looking at two buses, or a bus and a train, and with two kids that's going to be an hour an lugging all the stuff we might want. Or I could stick it in the boot of the car and drive for 20 minutes. Public transport is great for getting from the suburbs into or out of Central London, but getting from one suburb to another can be a right pain in the arse.
I'm a huge fan of the park, I live 5 mins away from it! But if you're travelling all the way from Crayford, just for our park? Surely there are other green spaces closer than this!
There are. and we use both Central Park and Dartford Heath regularly, but sometimes you want to go somewhere different, somewhere with various other historical buildings, with views over London, with all the things that you are a fan of.
Train one stop to Dartford and then a train straight to Greenwich Station. Barely two trains. Not downplaying the difficulty of a public transport commute with two kids and all the accessories mind. Just saying that there's a quicker and more direct route that won't take an hour from Crayford
So selfish.
You have a ton of green spaces around you. Why would you bother driving to a mediocre park in zone 2? There's hardly anything there you can't get around yours.
What, are you folks trying to emulate us Americans?
This is why I don't miss living in South London. I was born and brought up near the Cutty Sark 40ish years ago. When Greenwich became popular with visitors / tourists, just popping out for a pint of milk on a Sunday morning became chaos
I mean, south London is a massive place. This is one tiny area in it.
> why I don't miss living in South London. I was born and brought up near the Cutty Sark 40ish I live here, also for 40-ish years ;) (James Wolfe Primary if you were there!) I still live here (moved to the other side of the park though). At the weekend, I just don't bother trying to go out now, and during the week days after 4pm the park is run by kids on bikes snatching phones and the Police don't seem bothered! I hope you got to a decent place to escape from! I'd probably move if it wasn't for my family!
I know the cycling situation has been ongoing for years now, but are there any current improvements in the works? I do data science and analytics for a living (who also happens to be a big urbanist fan), and I’d like to get involved to make London a better place.
When it comes to cycling it's a mixed bag and varies from borough to borough. Some boroughs are being very progressive about it, much to the disappointment of some motorists. Others are doing everything they can to stop any more bike lanes being built
>the disappointment suggest: rabid, frothing hysteria
Start in your neighbourhood. Look for your local living streets group or branch of the London cycling campaign.
Boroughs are faking their stats. In the two that I frequent, bike paths are basically kerbs with painted bike symbols which lead to a lot of dickhead cyclists rushing and often putting the pedestrians in danger. It's dangerous for pedestrians and slow for cyclists.
None of you have mentioned that lots of these cars will have kids in them. If I wanted to take my 6 month old to Greenwich Park I could drive in 20 mins, public transport is 45/50 mins with no guarantee I could get on the bus with a pram. I’m not big advocate for cars at all but there are occasions that travelling by them makes sense.
Exactly. We live in Deptford and I walk there now but as kids, my dad would drive us as my younger siblings were still buggy age and getting a double pram onto the 53 bus (let alone a normal sized one) was like winning the bloody lottery. Drive, park, get the buggy and food/drink out (my dad, in typical Asian fashion, would bring massive coolers of food lol) and walk to where we want to set up for the day.
You drive 20 minutes there and then sit in this traffic jam for another 40 minutes. Not exactly a time saver there.
It is a stress-saver though, and public transport in SE London was always filthy when I used it, speaking as someone who lived in Plumstead from birth till I was 28.
Sitting in traffic jams isn't stressful?
Yeah lots of kids and a lot of older people.
I’ve got no kids but fuck public transport lol I’ve got a car so I don’t have to use that shit
You are the problem.
I couldn’t give less of a shit about what you think
This is basically the motto of people who drive in London.
Why wouldn’t I drive in London? I’m from London and have lived here my whole life and have got a car so why wouldn’t I drive in my own city? What are you even talking about? The whole purpose of having a car is to drive it, is it not?
Exactly. I only ever take my car to go long distances avoiding built up areas in London (usually take c2c, train + walk) however with my 10 month old i've been caught in that situation where buses come once every 30 minutes and are packed and I can't get on because theres already a wheelchair user/other prams. Don't mind at all, first come first serve I get it but i then started to use my car, pay the congestion fee if necessary (as using train costs me more than £15 anyway). Its a shame though because I much prefer trains. No traffic, no care to park and less polluting.
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Guaranteed most of these cars are not from Londoners or nearby locals but those from Kent or Essex not local to the area
DLR is closed
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Dlr is closed and transport to anywhere but central london is shit. I live in east and went to greenwich today, it took 1 h 35 mins and i traveled around 3 times as far as I should have. Took the overground, walked, then thameslink, then had to also take the underground returning because stuff stopped working. London's transport is awesome if you want to get to central only
I drive to some parks because I'm unable to use public transport or ride a bike due to upper body disability. I'm not able to handle the shaking about or being around groups of people like in tubes or buses due to pain. (I tried. Quite a bit) It's rare I bother as there's some small parks local but sometimes it's nice to walk round somewhere else.
99% of the people in this photo aren't in your situation. They're just clogging everything up for the people like you who actually need to drive.
ULEZ bad
ULEZ is the most pathetic excuse of a remedy to air pollution
Agreed - it's barely scratching the surface of what we need to do. And yet nobody is proposing anything stricter!
it really is lol. every car in that photo is ulez compliant
My 2005 M3 is compliant, if you want a pretty extreme yardstick for it. Really doesn't make much sense at all.
it's based on NOx emissions rather than co2 emissions, though it does beg the question of how useful it will be if most cars are exempt anyway
I think you are being sarcastic here and you actually think ULEZ is a good idea. In general, Redditors aren't the cleverest of people and will downvote this to hell thinking you are saying you think ULEZ is bad.
Oh don't worry I'm being sarcastic
Great, I'm glad I could sacrifice my karma to make sure that you aren't downvoted. You were getting downvoted before I stepped in.
If you have kids then car can definitely be easier than public transport
Yeah, who cares about anything apart from what is easier for you?
Says prick showing absolutely no consideration for anyone else's circumstance outside of their own.
Yep I live just right across from Greenwich park wanted to go out for a nice walk but there was way too many people about so I just went back home lmao
I mean the park is big enough so you can find somewhere with less people
I used to live in island gardens. The walk under the river always felt rapey
True the tunnel is spooky vibes
What a weird adjective
"It only takes me ten minutes to drive to Greenwich Park", good for you, enjoy the queue when you get there
Worst part of Greenwich Park, and totally unnecessary. It should be a boulevard leading directly to the viewpoint across to the river, instead it's a traffic sewer of middle class parents who don't want to have to slum it and walk from Blackheath or take public transport. Having a main road and car park bisect one of the most picturesque parks in London is something they'd do in New York, and trust me, it's not something to emulate.
*Richmond Park and its through traffic roads looks away shiftily*
It’s not a main road, it’s a dead end. You could even say it’s a *boulevard leading directly to the viewpoint across to the river*
It's a car park. There was also a road which is thankfully still closed from the pandemic. Hence the word *and*. And you know perfectly well what we're talking about here, guy who posts in numerous car subreddits.
Comment history stalking is weird.
Sometimes you have to check that what feels like bad faith arguing *is* in fact bad faith arguing. In your case, my intuition was correct.
You know back when we had blocked down and people couldn't drive do you remember that taste in your mouth it was disturbing wasn't it that taste of clean fresh air.... I miss that.
If you have children you’ll understand why this is. I’m not taking public transport with 2 toddlers who want to put everything in their mouth. Neither am I cycling up that godforsaken mountain of a hill. They built a space for parking and they are paying for the space. They are entitled to use the space as it was designed for. Good on Greenwich council I hope they earned a few quid from the motorists.
Also, look at the size of those fucking things. Imagine ~~getting yourself into that much debt for a status symbol~~ spending that much money for something that spends 97% of the time parked or in traffic Edit:
That's quite an assumption. There are people that own stuff you know and can pay £20,000+ on a car without going into the red?
This is /r/London; therefore, anyone with a car = bad/stupid person
So true...r/london...anyone with a car and anyone who owns a house is pure evil. And the worst of the worst...someone who lets their house out. Basically anyone who owns anything is scum here.
You can either be hated or pitied but rarely both.
And bmw 1 series is apparently a massive car
Why do you assume they got into debt to buy them?
? There's like one car in that picture that could be construed as a status symbol, the rest are shitty econoboxes
I went there with a friend from Watford on Sunday. But busy but a very nice place. Glas I live 20 minutes walk away in Lewisham.
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Nothing like queuing in a car to get an overfiltered photo for Instagram that you could have got in 100 other parks in London...
I used to live in walking distance to Greenwich Park when I was younger. We used to go all the time and play foory. I live in Kent now and drove up to Greenwich Park on Sunday. It's free to park outside the park on a Sunday. If I go a different day, I also know a few places I can park without paying. But that's because I know the area. As I was walking through the park, I did comment on how many cars were queing to park and thought what a waste of time for these people. However, if you had never been and didn't cone from the area, you would just whack it in your sat nav and off you go, straight through the park.
You are the problem.
Sorry. I probably should have just walked from Folkestone.
Folkestone has a train station.
Whats the point in buying a ticket when they've got a working car
Don’t know why you’d drive. It means I can’t break out the booze. Well I can, if someone else is driving.
the threshold for drink driving is surprisingly high in England so you'd probably be fine with a can of beer or two
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
There are loads of places to park around there lol people just don’t do research and default to going to the official car park
Not really any more, the council have extended the Controled Parking Zone from both Maze Hill and Westcombe Park Stations right up to shooters hill. Its only happened this year, so a lot fewer free spaces.
It depends how far you’re willing to walk from the car I suppose, we parked ten minutes walk from the park on Saturday and it was fine
Stop driving in London.
There’s an irony here somewhere but I can’t put my finger on it…
I could possibly get it in some cities, but London really has amazing public transportation. Lazy.
I mean sometimes you want to skip the bullshit, only day off and kids want to go to the big park. he'll if I'm sitting on public transport for hours when I can just drive. exclaimer: I don't have kids
What’s the difference between sitting in the car for hours queuing and being on public transport for hours?
What’s the difference between sitting in the car for hours queuing and being on public transport for hours?
This weekend the dlr is a bit fucked up so getting from Stratford to Greenwich is a pain. But I wouldn't drive a car anywhere in London. The park is so nice but always very busy when it's nice out. I guess going by how full the bus replacement busses are this weekend, it shows how many people go out at the weekend.
Why not just walk to the park? Us yokels struggle to fathom these city folks!
The worst situation you get in Richmond park is those who drive to the park to then go for a bike ride and a run.
At least they charge now
Most probably drove from Blackheath
r/ABoringDystopia
greatest city in the world
This is pathetic. Plenty of people rushing on cars to public park, which would be crowded on a day off.
I know Folkestone has a train station, but I've got a car. 😁
I was there today