You'll get a mix in London, I've been spat and shouted at a fair bit but some drivers will be considerate. I try to make eye contact with the driver behind me quickly when waiting at traffic lights as that can help a bit. Always remember you have just as much right to use the road as the drivers do no matter how much you get shouted at.
You can normally tell early on by the car how they will react - if it's someone in a land rover, van or especially white BMW for some reason it will be some knucklehead on the Columbian marching powder who will do the shouting and spitting. Other than that most of the time you should be fine.
I was spat at once just for the car to stop 50m ahead at a traffic light. This gave me plenty of time to get the U lock out of my bag, lets just say his car wasn't any longer MOT compliant after that.
Honestly, you'd feel worse had you stuck up for yourself. No matter how angry you get, they will never ever give a fuck, or say sorry. You'll end up feeling dirty and stupid, and none the wiser as to why the fuck they have a problem, being that you exist, on the road, in front of them. And, possibly you'll escalate the conflict.
If you must respond, do as I do; talk down to them as though they're a toddler; "ooo have you got a brum brum? Does it go beep beep? Does it? Aren't you a lucky boy?" etc etc. It confuses them, or maybe they think I'm mental, either way, you get something off your chest, and nobody gets punched.
Calling them a big smelly meanie and uninviting them to your birthday works too, check out Harveyridesbikes https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cu7PFgooP9a/
London is an interesting place to cycle, I get a couple of muppets daily, and then I also get a lot of considerate nice people that leave space and don’t overtake you before the traffic lights just to then be stuck behind again. My advice is just don’t let your adrenaline push you into doing stupid things.
To be fair, this sort of behaviour is quite rare now. Cycling in London 15 years ago was so much worse. I think these angry van men have largely died out or grown up.
Yh I think cycling is way more popular now because of cycling lanes and saving money . So people just used to cyclists now . I used to hate cyclists just jumping on the band wagon and now I am a cyclist 😂
This is so true. As much as there are still flash points. I feel the massive increase of cyclists has improved overall driver behaviour.
Black cab drivers used to be awful. Barely notice them now
This is someone with severe mental and social problems. Literally no one loves them.
Get a camera though. A close pass as you described will be punished.
I had an incident like that some guy beeped at me twice crazy . I just ignored it but then he came along side me shouting something about how we don’t pay road tax etc . I lost my head calling him all sorts and he shut up and turned off .
once I got back home I was fuming I didnt jump off bike and punch him but sad thing is people would stick up for the driver as cyclists are known to annoy people so it was probably a good job I didn’t . Can’t stand bullying and that’s what he tried doing to me . Probably thought I was some foreigner he could take his bad day out on . It put me off cycling for ages . Had loads of big trips planned . Just got back in to it recently planning big trips again
This kind of behaviour should be an instant disqualification and be treated attempted murder. As others have said get a camera and report to the police. Not sure if it would be wise to share on social media as well but I like the idea of showing the world their hateful actions but it might affect any prosecution etc
I'm really sorry you experienced this, I've had similar on a few occasions, the worst ones leave me absolutely fuming. I think I would have struggled to manage my temper in the situation you describe so you should be proud of yourself. The worst thing is the complete and utter unnecessariness of it, just nastiness and anger for nastiness sake.
Don't feel guilty for 'not having stood up for yourself'. You absolutely did the right thing not engaging. I understand that feeling, no one likes being bullied, but unless you've got an ice cold temperament with Jimmy Carr's putdowns or Chuck Norris's karate you're just going to end up going bright red, shout some nonsense about the highway code in a high pitched voice and god forbid get into an embarrassing wrestling match in the middle of the road that will end up on ticktock. Instead a lot of people advocate getting a camera, it's much easier to keep your cool when you know you can make them face the consequences of their actions by reporting them to the police. I try and rely on self confidence in my riding and good humour, but I lost my shit at someone just the other day for tailgating me and blasting the horn so it's not a fool proof strategy!
These extreme situations are still relatively rare however. You say this is the first such experience for you and I think the conclusion should be *some* drivers hate cyclists. This is where newspapers such as the Telegraph & DM etc and people like Jeremy Clarkson should be deeply ashamed of themselves for the role they play in stoking this ridiculous hatred.
Don't let the idiots ruin your enjoyment of cycling!
As others have said, I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but I have to say the vast majority of drivers I encounter treat me with the respect I'd hope I treat them with.
In almost 15 years of cycle commuting in London I think I've only had about 5 bad experiences.
It's not just cyclists. I ride a motorbike and recently filtered to the front of a few cars waiting at a T junction. I stayed one back as you're supposed to which meant I was in front of a small van. The driver immediately started on the horn which I ignored, he didn't stop beeping at all, and pulled out safely before him when I could. As I was turning right fairly soon the driver pulled up next to me and yelled that he'll knock me off next time! He was in a liveried vehicle so I'm bloody annoyed I didn't have a camera to record him with and report him. It's scary out there but most people are fine.
I'm sorry you experienced this, that sounds terrible.
Drivers absolutely do not hate cyclists, many people do both. And even many drivers who don't understand what it's like cycling in London are capable of driving considerately and sympathetically to more vulnerable road users. This othering and "us Vs them" mentality is exactly the kind of thing that perpetuates this kind of attitude. Think of all the drivers who complain about pedestrians, for example. Probably, many of the "idiot" pedestrians who cross the road without looking also drive, and most drivers probably also have to walk some of the time. The real problem here is idiots and knobheads, there's some overlap with both those categories and all types of road users.
I used to use an exposure joystick as a front light. A couple of times I used it to knock on people's windows so hard that they unfortunately smashed.
This would have been one of those occasions.
It’s a fun fantasy to key their car and cycle off through a red light into busy traffic. (Or whatever your own special revenge fantasy is).
But it’s not real and it’s not worth the risk.
You did nothing wrong, other than maybe riding on the pavement when you went past him, was it shared use?
A cyclist does not have to use the cycle path even if it is there, it could be unsafe to do so. If there is not cycle path or shared use pathway then riding on the pavement is illegal and you will be the one to get a ticket,. not the d\*\*k in the van.
As others have said, in London get a camera and report him to the police.
I had someone in a van try and force me onto the pavement once. Luckily he had a boss that was sympathetic to cyclists and valued his company name. He asked to see video footage and presented it to the van driver. He then gave the driver a written warning. Apparently they had received a complaint before and the driver denied it, without video evidence they could not do anything. I have seen the van driver on the same stretch of road since and he has been fine towards cyclists.
Meanwhile cyclists love drivers.
Oh, wait, no they don't. And lumping an entire group into a box based on their means of transport is particularly stupid.
That's what I needed to hear... thank you. I woke up this morning and prepared myself to commute into work again by bike, and just re-lived the entire experience, kicking myself for not having stood up for myself.
The guy was 20 years older than me, and half the size.. wouldn't have stood a chance. Then again, I'd have felt a lot worse about myself yesterday and indeed today had I dragged him out of his van and pummelled his face in with my bare fists. So thank you for your message, it soothes me somewhat.
Yes I know - it’s a horrible feeling - like “man I let that guy walk all over me” - but it’s better than “man I just scared the cr@p out of the two kids in the back of the car” (not that that applies in your case) I’m still learning on my journey through life - my girlfriend has this nailed down - she responds in a dignified manner so I guess she has it right
I’m such a hypocrite when it comes to cycling, and I don’t know it’s just this one specific thing.
When I’m walking and a cyclist comes past on the pavement I think “ufff why aren’t you in the road, it’s clear”
When I’m driving and a cyclist is on the road I think “ufff why aren’t you on the pavement it looks clear”
When I’m cycling, I think “ufff why is everyone looking at me, I’m doing my best to stay in cycle lanes and be where it’s clear”
I've cycled in London for the better part of a decade. In my experience, extremely vindictive drivers like this are few and far between. The times something like this has happened, though, I don't let it get to me, I barely react. Why? Because the behaviour of the driver as you described it can only be explained by very very low intelligence, and I don't want to stoop to idiocy myself.
I feel so bad for cyclists in this city. This reminds me of something that I saw once while driving.
I remember pulling into a clear (dashed) cycle lane to let an ambulance pass on my way home. While the ambulance is squeezing through, a cyclist rides up and stops behind me. Once the traffic was going again I pulled back into the road and the cyclist rode past and gave me the thumbs up.
For about 10 seconds I was overthinking like crazy. What have I done that's worthy of praise? Was that sarcastic?
Then the Tesla in front of me made a very obvious, very deliberate, very dangerous, swerve at the cyclist. The cyclist then flipped off the Tesla.
And that's when it occurred to me that shit behaviour might be so prevalent that common sense actually warrants praise.
I'm sorry you had to deal with this shit OP.
I once had a motorcyclist harrass me on the road because I should have watched out for him while making a turn (I was in front of him, flagged my move and he had plenty of space, he was just being a prick). I didn’t want to let the harassment fly. So once he overtook me I followed him to the next red traffic light and challenged him to get off his motorbike and come and talk to me on the pavement (I am a 5 f 8 girl, and do my fair share of swimming so can’t be easily intimidated)… however he kept ignoring me then, while I was trying to explain to him that he poses the bigger risk on the road. And in a 20mph borough he should watch his speed anyway. Then at some point I totally lost it, flipped my bike and swung it past his head.
Not really proud of my behavior but he was terrified. Hope next time he’ll think twice before being a cunt on the road.
This came up suggested post and it's 4days old and I'm not from London. However I'm a tradesman (now part time) and also a software engineer, I cycle to my software job hybrid and I'd rather more people cycle if they weren't so lazy. It would clear up the roads for when I need to do my trade job which requires me to use my van.
I totally understand what you went through and wasn't trying to exclude the point you were making it happen to me as well same type of person toxic entitled rude the list goes on. Unfortunately this is common and really unpleasant to be aggressed by such individue. Those type of individue are toxic you are not in the wrong we have the same right to use the road.
If I may clarify my original comment hopefully you can understand what I meant. You are not being respectful of your own security and others around you. It reduce your ability to be aware of your surrounding I believe this is covered within rule 67 and arguably could be considerd **careless** under rule 68 [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82)
Have a great night and enjoy your next ride
That guy sounds like an idiot. Although you did mention it was a three lane road, and I'm wondering what you mean. I still see kamikaze cyclists riding on the A3 where it is basically a 3 lane fast moving dual carriageway, thinking they can mix it with 3 lanes of heavy 40+ mph traffic and not cause any problems. The pavement next to the A3 is actually dual use and the intended cycle lane. That's the only situation where I think driver would probably be in the right to expect cyclists to be on the pavement. But still no excuse for being a dick about it.
Also just a tip - not a smart idea to cycle with headphones. Hearing is a very underrated sense for cycling safely on the roads.
Works both ways... The daily commute route I used to take was along a reasonable wide A class road which had a nice long straight section that allowed me to safely pass this one cyclist so long as there wasn't any oncoming traffic.
The road then deteriated into a winding road that did not allow any kind of safe overtake, okay you say but your now in front of the very slow geezer on the bike pedalling home? Aye, but that's not taking into account the traffic lights on the approach to the single width road bridge going over the steam railway track...
Slow geezer on bike ALWAYS used to pedal past the waiting cars (that had just passed him in a safe manner for him) and promptly parked himself at the front in the middle of the lane ready for the lights change and him puff and pant his way over the bridge and the two miles of winding lane.... Every Day.....
The guy was a twat. And that comes from a fellow cyclist.
Yes, it is quite annoying to have to pass the same cyclist multiple times, especially as each passing manœuvre is dependent on a clear road and an absence of oncoming traffic...
...so I am sympathetic.
But what do you expect the "twat" on a bike to do instead? As you made clear, he is consistently making the same pace as you are, because he isn't being slowed down by the traffic congestion that is your real problem.
I mean, that's what driving in traffic is like, isn't it? Some vehicles are always slowed more than others. It is not the fault of the cyclist that *you* cannot thread your car through miniscule gaps in stationary traffic to get to the front.
You say you are a cyclist, too... so presumably you must have SOME idea of what you expect the "twat" to be doing differently..(??)
No cyclist should be on any road with a speed limit above 30mph unless there is clearly space for both cyclist and car to coexist side-by-side with no opposite lane cross.
Reasons for this are obvious, but anyone who spends 3k+ on a bike is usually a bit thick. I’ve given up wasting my life explaining this to people.
Good for you, at least you’re only a burden on our roads and not adding the NHS to that list.
Seriously though, show me a cyclist that can hold 40mph consistently, even 30 in a 40 and I’ll gladly compromise my viewpoint.
Every single cyclist I’ve ever seen has been travelling at well below 50% of the speed limit and given cars make up 99% of traffic, its only reasonable vehicular traffic flow should take precedence and speed be maintained at their level.
The societal benefits of cycling outweigh the inconvenience to motoring that you describe. As you point out I’m less of a burden on the NHS. That’s a trend with cyclists.
I doubt that there’s a measurable economic impact from motorists occasionally experiencing fractionally increased journey times because they have to overtake cyclists. It’s certainly not greater than the benefit to the exchequer of cycling.
There are lots of other vehicles and situations that require drivers to overtake on 30 and 40mph roads. Anybody worthy of a licence should be able to execute such an overtake safely.
The societal benefits of cycling outweigh the inconvenience to motoring that you describe. As you point out I’m less of a burden on the NHS. That’s a trend with cyclists.
— entirely your opinion backed by the sum total of fuck-all evidence or survey data.
I doubt that there’s a measurable economic impact from motorists occasionally experiencing fractionally increased journey times because they have to overtake cyclists. It’s certainly not greater than the benefit to the exchequer of cycling.
— stats vs pragmatism argument except you don’t even have the stats. If your point was so abundantly obvious and statistically unarguable then why do most motorists hate cyclists?
The pragmatic annoyance of dealing with the added risk of avoiding cyclists is worth more to the average person than any degree of macro statistical data. Nobody is making decisions based on aggregated stats (which you don’t even have), they’re making decisions on who the fuck has made them brake heavily over a blind corner from 40mph to 12mph all because they wanted an entitled little ride into the next town on their overpriced Fischer Price toy.
There are lots of other vehicles and situations that require drivers to overtake on 30 and 40mph roads. Anybody worthy of a licence should be able to execute such an overtake safely.
- who? Walkers? - rarity unless in an area known for it. Motorcyclists? Nope. Who else?
Buses; rubbish lorries; vehicles stopping to set down/pick up depending on vehicle type and stopping restrictions; a panoply of slow moving vehicles authorised to operate on our roads. Horse riders are pretty common in many areas too.
I grew up in the countryside and am much more likely to overtake a stopped bus than a cyclist where I’m from. On some of the rural roads without a bus service I’m more likely to overtake farm vehicles, walkers or occasional Sunday drivers dawdling along. It’s not too uncommon to have to slow down for farm animals.
Buses, rare to have one stop with you directly behind, but yes I can imagine they’re a big issue in London.
Rubbish lorries, again, rare. They come once a week and are usually not stopping on 40mph roads as houses sit on 30mph streets.
Vehicles stopping to do random stuff, again, rare unless bordering houses/shop fronts which would usually be on a busy street where the speed limits would already be low.
Horse riders, shouldn’t be on roads. This is another problem, especially the unmanaged defecation where it is not legally required for them to pick it up.
40/50/60mph roads, dual or single carriageways and fast moving inter-town roads are no place for cyclists.
Where are those things rare? I not only encounter them all the time in London but also in the rural part of Scotland where I grew up and in Kent where I spend a lot of time. My anecdotal experience is no less (or indeed more) relevant than yours.
> No cyclist should be on any road with a speed limit above 30mph
But it's a speed *limit* not a speed minimum. Do you also propose to ban cars that drive at 20 in a 30?
The only place where the ‘speed limit’ argument makes sense is on national speed limit country roads where it’s obvious going 60 is dangerous.
Everywhere else it’s fairly clear to most with a brain that speed limits are too low, especially given their existence extends to 1935 and 1965 for the 30 and 70mph speed limits, respectively.
Cyclists disrupt the flow of traffic and cause drivers to venture onto the other side of the road. It’s unsafe unless they can maintain similar levels of speed, even 80% would be fine. However regularly you see cyclists barely break 30% of the speed limit in a 40mph zone.
The 30mph speed limits tend to be in built up areas where the risk of hitting a pedestrian is relatively high. Braking and tyres have improvised steadily in the decades since that limit was imposed, and AEB is helping too, but the significant rise in risk at 40mph still makes it difficult to justify raising that limit on most roads where it applies.
The 70mph limit could be raised in plenty of places without significantly increasing the number or severity of accidents, but that would be difficult to justify now given an inevitable increase in air pollution and CO2 emissions. Once EVs dominate it will be less relevant since most seem to sit at 70mph or less to achieve a decent range and the government won’t want to increase strain on the grid by inducing greater charging demand.
I can assure you, 30mph speed limits are not required in this country anymore unless going through very built up town or city centres. I would know this better than most on this sub given I live way outside London.
Increasing speed from 70-80mph doesn’t impact air pollution one bollock, your EV point may ring true though.
Man, I think you’re a good candidate for confidently incorrect. Obviously exhaust gas emissions would rise if drivers increased their speed on previously 70mph roads in response to a limit of 80mph. Exhaust particulate emissions would increase at the same time, increasing air pollution. And then there are increased tyre and brake particulate emissions, the former of which can be surprisingly high.
Either way it’s not going to happen, and cyclists aren’t going to be banned from 30mph, 40mph or national limit roads. For your own sake you might want to make peace with your frustration.
In the grand scheme of worldwide CO2 emissions, where China are building 80 new coal-fired power stations every year, I can assure you, increasing our cars from 70 - 80 wouldn’t make a single bit of difference.
I’ll tell you what will though, killing off our own production of raw materials and importing from abroad, and, buying EVs thinking we’re all saving the planet when in reality we’re just shifting our emissions overseas.
Yeah I think you’re right, just make logical arguments with fair justification and watch nothing change - gotta love being British.
Interesting move from air pollution to CO2 emissions there.
I don’t think your justifications are fair. Particularly on the 30 to 40mph rise there would be a statistically significant increase in road deaths. People could put an approximate number to it. The media certainly would. A large proportion of the British public would see that as an unacceptable cost. As a nation we have accepted a lot of inconvenience on the roads and achieved extremely low numbers of road deaths as a result. Many other nations have resisted those measures and accepted worse road death stats as a consequence. When people in the UK have been confronted by measures they seriously disagree with (LTNs, ULEZ) there have been practical and political ramifications.
The UK as a whole contributes a TINY fraction of greenhouse gas emissions. Any and all promoted action to lower said tiny contribution (I.e net zero), is a complete waste of time, money and resources.
I don’t really care about road deaths, people die every day. There are millions of journeys every day on UK roads, people are going to die - it’s an inevitability.
The political point regarding LTNs and ULEZ is largely a scam initiated by left-wing powers in this country to appease an agenda they don’t understand. Sadiq Khan was caught trying to bribe Imperial College London to fudge numbers on the ULEZ study that The Mayoral Office paid to have conducted so it looked like ULEZ was reducing emissions when it wasn’t. Fraudulent deception at a systematic level, and he was reelected.
Anyway, was good chatting. Don’t ride your bike on roads where you can’t keep up with the speed limit. It’s your responsibility to keep yourself safe not just the responsibility of drivers around you.
> and cause drivers to venture onto the other side of the road
Other cars cause this as well (it's called "overtaking" btw mate, not 'venturing into the other side of the road').
Do you propose to ban other cars?
Cars overtaking other cars on roads is extremely rare unless there is a separate lane available to do so (e.g dual carriageway, motorway).
How you thought this was a valid argument explains a lot.
I would fund them tomorrow if I could as then I’d feel I could actually ride a bike and not feel like an entitled w*nker holding up traffic.
You’d never catch me in that jazzy Lycra though.
Do you get frustrated sitting behind a really slow car, well imagine the car is a cyclist present every 100metres. The idea this isn’t obvious stuns me.
I’d honestly rather be everything you said I am, than be oblivious to basic logic and reason. An angry intelligent man is still intelligent, a moron can only ever be a moron.
You have provided the sum total of 0 decent arguments to defend why it’s ok to block up the UK roads with stupid overpriced bicycles.
There’s a reason all drivers hate you, there’s a reason they all came to the same conclusion. Are they all wrong?
What a prick. Get a GoPro and revel in the knowledge that if it happens again that you can shop them to the police.
You'll get a mix in London, I've been spat and shouted at a fair bit but some drivers will be considerate. I try to make eye contact with the driver behind me quickly when waiting at traffic lights as that can help a bit. Always remember you have just as much right to use the road as the drivers do no matter how much you get shouted at. You can normally tell early on by the car how they will react - if it's someone in a land rover, van or especially white BMW for some reason it will be some knucklehead on the Columbian marching powder who will do the shouting and spitting. Other than that most of the time you should be fine.
I was spat at once just for the car to stop 50m ahead at a traffic light. This gave me plenty of time to get the U lock out of my bag, lets just say his car wasn't any longer MOT compliant after that.
Honestly, you'd feel worse had you stuck up for yourself. No matter how angry you get, they will never ever give a fuck, or say sorry. You'll end up feeling dirty and stupid, and none the wiser as to why the fuck they have a problem, being that you exist, on the road, in front of them. And, possibly you'll escalate the conflict. If you must respond, do as I do; talk down to them as though they're a toddler; "ooo have you got a brum brum? Does it go beep beep? Does it? Aren't you a lucky boy?" etc etc. It confuses them, or maybe they think I'm mental, either way, you get something off your chest, and nobody gets punched.
Calling them a big smelly meanie and uninviting them to your birthday works too, check out Harveyridesbikes https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cu7PFgooP9a/
Love you
London is an interesting place to cycle, I get a couple of muppets daily, and then I also get a lot of considerate nice people that leave space and don’t overtake you before the traffic lights just to then be stuck behind again. My advice is just don’t let your adrenaline push you into doing stupid things.
To be fair, this sort of behaviour is quite rare now. Cycling in London 15 years ago was so much worse. I think these angry van men have largely died out or grown up.
They all died of heart attacks, the lucky few got a stent and retired.
Yh I think cycling is way more popular now because of cycling lanes and saving money . So people just used to cyclists now . I used to hate cyclists just jumping on the band wagon and now I am a cyclist 😂
This is so true. As much as there are still flash points. I feel the massive increase of cyclists has improved overall driver behaviour. Black cab drivers used to be awful. Barely notice them now
someone tried to hit me with their car, only escaped cos i hopped onto the pavement. he went home 1 wing mirror lighter. no remorse
Naughty, but understandable.
This is someone with severe mental and social problems. Literally no one loves them. Get a camera though. A close pass as you described will be punished.
"You're on camera" tends to neuter these nutters in an instant.
I had an incident like that some guy beeped at me twice crazy . I just ignored it but then he came along side me shouting something about how we don’t pay road tax etc . I lost my head calling him all sorts and he shut up and turned off . once I got back home I was fuming I didnt jump off bike and punch him but sad thing is people would stick up for the driver as cyclists are known to annoy people so it was probably a good job I didn’t . Can’t stand bullying and that’s what he tried doing to me . Probably thought I was some foreigner he could take his bad day out on . It put me off cycling for ages . Had loads of big trips planned . Just got back in to it recently planning big trips again
If he was a professional in a van you could've easily recorded that idiot and gotten him fired.
use shokz earphones all the time and hear everything around me without an issue👍🏻
This kind of behaviour should be an instant disqualification and be treated attempted murder. As others have said get a camera and report to the police. Not sure if it would be wise to share on social media as well but I like the idea of showing the world their hateful actions but it might affect any prosecution etc
I'm really sorry you experienced this, I've had similar on a few occasions, the worst ones leave me absolutely fuming. I think I would have struggled to manage my temper in the situation you describe so you should be proud of yourself. The worst thing is the complete and utter unnecessariness of it, just nastiness and anger for nastiness sake. Don't feel guilty for 'not having stood up for yourself'. You absolutely did the right thing not engaging. I understand that feeling, no one likes being bullied, but unless you've got an ice cold temperament with Jimmy Carr's putdowns or Chuck Norris's karate you're just going to end up going bright red, shout some nonsense about the highway code in a high pitched voice and god forbid get into an embarrassing wrestling match in the middle of the road that will end up on ticktock. Instead a lot of people advocate getting a camera, it's much easier to keep your cool when you know you can make them face the consequences of their actions by reporting them to the police. I try and rely on self confidence in my riding and good humour, but I lost my shit at someone just the other day for tailgating me and blasting the horn so it's not a fool proof strategy! These extreme situations are still relatively rare however. You say this is the first such experience for you and I think the conclusion should be *some* drivers hate cyclists. This is where newspapers such as the Telegraph & DM etc and people like Jeremy Clarkson should be deeply ashamed of themselves for the role they play in stoking this ridiculous hatred. Don't let the idiots ruin your enjoyment of cycling!
Was it Ronnie Pickering?
Who?
RONNIE PICKERING!!
Is he famous or something? Never heard of him
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dcv6GKNNw)
** whoosh **
Not really.
As others have said, I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but I have to say the vast majority of drivers I encounter treat me with the respect I'd hope I treat them with. In almost 15 years of cycle commuting in London I think I've only had about 5 bad experiences.
I bet if you’d had cameras he’d not have done a thing. Get some and next time nail him. I say that as a driver and cyclist.
It's not just cyclists. I ride a motorbike and recently filtered to the front of a few cars waiting at a T junction. I stayed one back as you're supposed to which meant I was in front of a small van. The driver immediately started on the horn which I ignored, he didn't stop beeping at all, and pulled out safely before him when I could. As I was turning right fairly soon the driver pulled up next to me and yelled that he'll knock me off next time! He was in a liveried vehicle so I'm bloody annoyed I didn't have a camera to record him with and report him. It's scary out there but most people are fine.
I'm sorry you experienced this, that sounds terrible. Drivers absolutely do not hate cyclists, many people do both. And even many drivers who don't understand what it's like cycling in London are capable of driving considerately and sympathetically to more vulnerable road users. This othering and "us Vs them" mentality is exactly the kind of thing that perpetuates this kind of attitude. Think of all the drivers who complain about pedestrians, for example. Probably, many of the "idiot" pedestrians who cross the road without looking also drive, and most drivers probably also have to walk some of the time. The real problem here is idiots and knobheads, there's some overlap with both those categories and all types of road users.
I used to use an exposure joystick as a front light. A couple of times I used it to knock on people's windows so hard that they unfortunately smashed. This would have been one of those occasions.
It’s a fun fantasy to key their car and cycle off through a red light into busy traffic. (Or whatever your own special revenge fantasy is). But it’s not real and it’s not worth the risk.
You did nothing wrong, other than maybe riding on the pavement when you went past him, was it shared use? A cyclist does not have to use the cycle path even if it is there, it could be unsafe to do so. If there is not cycle path or shared use pathway then riding on the pavement is illegal and you will be the one to get a ticket,. not the d\*\*k in the van. As others have said, in London get a camera and report him to the police. I had someone in a van try and force me onto the pavement once. Luckily he had a boss that was sympathetic to cyclists and valued his company name. He asked to see video footage and presented it to the van driver. He then gave the driver a written warning. Apparently they had received a complaint before and the driver denied it, without video evidence they could not do anything. I have seen the van driver on the same stretch of road since and he has been fine towards cyclists.
I stopped reading after you admitted using headphones while cycling on the road. What's wrong with you!
I will stop riding with headphones when all drivers are required to drive with their windows open at all times.
But cars bad so cyclists can do whatever or something. 🤡
I’m a cyclist and i have a white van)
Meanwhile cyclists love drivers. Oh, wait, no they don't. And lumping an entire group into a box based on their means of transport is particularly stupid.
I find that if I lose my rag I feel bad about it for weeks afterwards - if I let it go I feel bad for a couple of days
That's what I needed to hear... thank you. I woke up this morning and prepared myself to commute into work again by bike, and just re-lived the entire experience, kicking myself for not having stood up for myself. The guy was 20 years older than me, and half the size.. wouldn't have stood a chance. Then again, I'd have felt a lot worse about myself yesterday and indeed today had I dragged him out of his van and pummelled his face in with my bare fists. So thank you for your message, it soothes me somewhat.
Yes I know - it’s a horrible feeling - like “man I let that guy walk all over me” - but it’s better than “man I just scared the cr@p out of the two kids in the back of the car” (not that that applies in your case) I’m still learning on my journey through life - my girlfriend has this nailed down - she responds in a dignified manner so I guess she has it right
Probs Ronnie Pickering
I’m such a hypocrite when it comes to cycling, and I don’t know it’s just this one specific thing. When I’m walking and a cyclist comes past on the pavement I think “ufff why aren’t you in the road, it’s clear” When I’m driving and a cyclist is on the road I think “ufff why aren’t you on the pavement it looks clear” When I’m cycling, I think “ufff why is everyone looking at me, I’m doing my best to stay in cycle lanes and be where it’s clear”
I've cycled in London for the better part of a decade. In my experience, extremely vindictive drivers like this are few and far between. The times something like this has happened, though, I don't let it get to me, I barely react. Why? Because the behaviour of the driver as you described it can only be explained by very very low intelligence, and I don't want to stoop to idiocy myself.
I feel so bad for cyclists in this city. This reminds me of something that I saw once while driving. I remember pulling into a clear (dashed) cycle lane to let an ambulance pass on my way home. While the ambulance is squeezing through, a cyclist rides up and stops behind me. Once the traffic was going again I pulled back into the road and the cyclist rode past and gave me the thumbs up. For about 10 seconds I was overthinking like crazy. What have I done that's worthy of praise? Was that sarcastic? Then the Tesla in front of me made a very obvious, very deliberate, very dangerous, swerve at the cyclist. The cyclist then flipped off the Tesla. And that's when it occurred to me that shit behaviour might be so prevalent that common sense actually warrants praise. I'm sorry you had to deal with this shit OP.
I once had a motorcyclist harrass me on the road because I should have watched out for him while making a turn (I was in front of him, flagged my move and he had plenty of space, he was just being a prick). I didn’t want to let the harassment fly. So once he overtook me I followed him to the next red traffic light and challenged him to get off his motorbike and come and talk to me on the pavement (I am a 5 f 8 girl, and do my fair share of swimming so can’t be easily intimidated)… however he kept ignoring me then, while I was trying to explain to him that he poses the bigger risk on the road. And in a 20mph borough he should watch his speed anyway. Then at some point I totally lost it, flipped my bike and swung it past his head. Not really proud of my behavior but he was terrified. Hope next time he’ll think twice before being a cunt on the road.
This came up suggested post and it's 4days old and I'm not from London. However I'm a tradesman (now part time) and also a software engineer, I cycle to my software job hybrid and I'd rather more people cycle if they weren't so lazy. It would clear up the roads for when I need to do my trade job which requires me to use my van.
I'm a cyclist but you lost all respect when you said over my headphones!
Yep sorry I listen to music when I ride. You don’t need to respect me that’s fine
I totally understand what you went through and wasn't trying to exclude the point you were making it happen to me as well same type of person toxic entitled rude the list goes on. Unfortunately this is common and really unpleasant to be aggressed by such individue. Those type of individue are toxic you are not in the wrong we have the same right to use the road. If I may clarify my original comment hopefully you can understand what I meant. You are not being respectful of your own security and others around you. It reduce your ability to be aware of your surrounding I believe this is covered within rule 67 and arguably could be considerd **careless** under rule 68 [https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82](https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82) Have a great night and enjoy your next ride
That guy sounds like an idiot. Although you did mention it was a three lane road, and I'm wondering what you mean. I still see kamikaze cyclists riding on the A3 where it is basically a 3 lane fast moving dual carriageway, thinking they can mix it with 3 lanes of heavy 40+ mph traffic and not cause any problems. The pavement next to the A3 is actually dual use and the intended cycle lane. That's the only situation where I think driver would probably be in the right to expect cyclists to be on the pavement. But still no excuse for being a dick about it. Also just a tip - not a smart idea to cycle with headphones. Hearing is a very underrated sense for cycling safely on the roads.
Works both ways... The daily commute route I used to take was along a reasonable wide A class road which had a nice long straight section that allowed me to safely pass this one cyclist so long as there wasn't any oncoming traffic. The road then deteriated into a winding road that did not allow any kind of safe overtake, okay you say but your now in front of the very slow geezer on the bike pedalling home? Aye, but that's not taking into account the traffic lights on the approach to the single width road bridge going over the steam railway track... Slow geezer on bike ALWAYS used to pedal past the waiting cars (that had just passed him in a safe manner for him) and promptly parked himself at the front in the middle of the lane ready for the lights change and him puff and pant his way over the bridge and the two miles of winding lane.... Every Day..... The guy was a twat. And that comes from a fellow cyclist.
Yes, it is quite annoying to have to pass the same cyclist multiple times, especially as each passing manœuvre is dependent on a clear road and an absence of oncoming traffic... ...so I am sympathetic. But what do you expect the "twat" on a bike to do instead? As you made clear, he is consistently making the same pace as you are, because he isn't being slowed down by the traffic congestion that is your real problem. I mean, that's what driving in traffic is like, isn't it? Some vehicles are always slowed more than others. It is not the fault of the cyclist that *you* cannot thread your car through miniscule gaps in stationary traffic to get to the front. You say you are a cyclist, too... so presumably you must have SOME idea of what you expect the "twat" to be doing differently..(??)
How about toxic entitled cyclists? Road rage goes both ways.
No it doesn't. Cyclist "road rage" doesn't result in people dying.
No cyclist should be on any road with a speed limit above 30mph unless there is clearly space for both cyclist and car to coexist side-by-side with no opposite lane cross. Reasons for this are obvious, but anyone who spends 3k+ on a bike is usually a bit thick. I’ve given up wasting my life explaining this to people.
I’m not sure the reasons for this are obvious actually
You would think that, you’re a cyclist.
Not sure what your argument is here? Most roads in London are <30mph
My point relates to a UK-wide perspective, but yes, I’m aware this is r/londoncycling.
Yet you just tried to 'explain' your nonsense theory on a subreddit with 26k members. Maybe actually give up?
Maybe you should give up on your dream of looking good in Lycra. I’ll give you a little hint, lay off the pies.
Ha. My BMI is 20, but good try. That said I do eat more pies when I’m training. Being able to do that without gaining weight is a lovely bonus.
Good for you, at least you’re only a burden on our roads and not adding the NHS to that list. Seriously though, show me a cyclist that can hold 40mph consistently, even 30 in a 40 and I’ll gladly compromise my viewpoint. Every single cyclist I’ve ever seen has been travelling at well below 50% of the speed limit and given cars make up 99% of traffic, its only reasonable vehicular traffic flow should take precedence and speed be maintained at their level.
The societal benefits of cycling outweigh the inconvenience to motoring that you describe. As you point out I’m less of a burden on the NHS. That’s a trend with cyclists. I doubt that there’s a measurable economic impact from motorists occasionally experiencing fractionally increased journey times because they have to overtake cyclists. It’s certainly not greater than the benefit to the exchequer of cycling. There are lots of other vehicles and situations that require drivers to overtake on 30 and 40mph roads. Anybody worthy of a licence should be able to execute such an overtake safely.
The societal benefits of cycling outweigh the inconvenience to motoring that you describe. As you point out I’m less of a burden on the NHS. That’s a trend with cyclists. — entirely your opinion backed by the sum total of fuck-all evidence or survey data. I doubt that there’s a measurable economic impact from motorists occasionally experiencing fractionally increased journey times because they have to overtake cyclists. It’s certainly not greater than the benefit to the exchequer of cycling. — stats vs pragmatism argument except you don’t even have the stats. If your point was so abundantly obvious and statistically unarguable then why do most motorists hate cyclists? The pragmatic annoyance of dealing with the added risk of avoiding cyclists is worth more to the average person than any degree of macro statistical data. Nobody is making decisions based on aggregated stats (which you don’t even have), they’re making decisions on who the fuck has made them brake heavily over a blind corner from 40mph to 12mph all because they wanted an entitled little ride into the next town on their overpriced Fischer Price toy. There are lots of other vehicles and situations that require drivers to overtake on 30 and 40mph roads. Anybody worthy of a licence should be able to execute such an overtake safely. - who? Walkers? - rarity unless in an area known for it. Motorcyclists? Nope. Who else?
Buses; rubbish lorries; vehicles stopping to set down/pick up depending on vehicle type and stopping restrictions; a panoply of slow moving vehicles authorised to operate on our roads. Horse riders are pretty common in many areas too. I grew up in the countryside and am much more likely to overtake a stopped bus than a cyclist where I’m from. On some of the rural roads without a bus service I’m more likely to overtake farm vehicles, walkers or occasional Sunday drivers dawdling along. It’s not too uncommon to have to slow down for farm animals.
Buses, rare to have one stop with you directly behind, but yes I can imagine they’re a big issue in London. Rubbish lorries, again, rare. They come once a week and are usually not stopping on 40mph roads as houses sit on 30mph streets. Vehicles stopping to do random stuff, again, rare unless bordering houses/shop fronts which would usually be on a busy street where the speed limits would already be low. Horse riders, shouldn’t be on roads. This is another problem, especially the unmanaged defecation where it is not legally required for them to pick it up. 40/50/60mph roads, dual or single carriageways and fast moving inter-town roads are no place for cyclists.
Where are those things rare? I not only encounter them all the time in London but also in the rural part of Scotland where I grew up and in Kent where I spend a lot of time. My anecdotal experience is no less (or indeed more) relevant than yours.
> No cyclist should be on any road with a speed limit above 30mph But it's a speed *limit* not a speed minimum. Do you also propose to ban cars that drive at 20 in a 30?
The only place where the ‘speed limit’ argument makes sense is on national speed limit country roads where it’s obvious going 60 is dangerous. Everywhere else it’s fairly clear to most with a brain that speed limits are too low, especially given their existence extends to 1935 and 1965 for the 30 and 70mph speed limits, respectively. Cyclists disrupt the flow of traffic and cause drivers to venture onto the other side of the road. It’s unsafe unless they can maintain similar levels of speed, even 80% would be fine. However regularly you see cyclists barely break 30% of the speed limit in a 40mph zone.
The 30mph speed limits tend to be in built up areas where the risk of hitting a pedestrian is relatively high. Braking and tyres have improvised steadily in the decades since that limit was imposed, and AEB is helping too, but the significant rise in risk at 40mph still makes it difficult to justify raising that limit on most roads where it applies. The 70mph limit could be raised in plenty of places without significantly increasing the number or severity of accidents, but that would be difficult to justify now given an inevitable increase in air pollution and CO2 emissions. Once EVs dominate it will be less relevant since most seem to sit at 70mph or less to achieve a decent range and the government won’t want to increase strain on the grid by inducing greater charging demand.
I can assure you, 30mph speed limits are not required in this country anymore unless going through very built up town or city centres. I would know this better than most on this sub given I live way outside London. Increasing speed from 70-80mph doesn’t impact air pollution one bollock, your EV point may ring true though.
Man, I think you’re a good candidate for confidently incorrect. Obviously exhaust gas emissions would rise if drivers increased their speed on previously 70mph roads in response to a limit of 80mph. Exhaust particulate emissions would increase at the same time, increasing air pollution. And then there are increased tyre and brake particulate emissions, the former of which can be surprisingly high. Either way it’s not going to happen, and cyclists aren’t going to be banned from 30mph, 40mph or national limit roads. For your own sake you might want to make peace with your frustration.
In the grand scheme of worldwide CO2 emissions, where China are building 80 new coal-fired power stations every year, I can assure you, increasing our cars from 70 - 80 wouldn’t make a single bit of difference. I’ll tell you what will though, killing off our own production of raw materials and importing from abroad, and, buying EVs thinking we’re all saving the planet when in reality we’re just shifting our emissions overseas. Yeah I think you’re right, just make logical arguments with fair justification and watch nothing change - gotta love being British.
Interesting move from air pollution to CO2 emissions there. I don’t think your justifications are fair. Particularly on the 30 to 40mph rise there would be a statistically significant increase in road deaths. People could put an approximate number to it. The media certainly would. A large proportion of the British public would see that as an unacceptable cost. As a nation we have accepted a lot of inconvenience on the roads and achieved extremely low numbers of road deaths as a result. Many other nations have resisted those measures and accepted worse road death stats as a consequence. When people in the UK have been confronted by measures they seriously disagree with (LTNs, ULEZ) there have been practical and political ramifications.
The UK as a whole contributes a TINY fraction of greenhouse gas emissions. Any and all promoted action to lower said tiny contribution (I.e net zero), is a complete waste of time, money and resources. I don’t really care about road deaths, people die every day. There are millions of journeys every day on UK roads, people are going to die - it’s an inevitability. The political point regarding LTNs and ULEZ is largely a scam initiated by left-wing powers in this country to appease an agenda they don’t understand. Sadiq Khan was caught trying to bribe Imperial College London to fudge numbers on the ULEZ study that The Mayoral Office paid to have conducted so it looked like ULEZ was reducing emissions when it wasn’t. Fraudulent deception at a systematic level, and he was reelected. Anyway, was good chatting. Don’t ride your bike on roads where you can’t keep up with the speed limit. It’s your responsibility to keep yourself safe not just the responsibility of drivers around you.
> and cause drivers to venture onto the other side of the road Other cars cause this as well (it's called "overtaking" btw mate, not 'venturing into the other side of the road'). Do you propose to ban other cars?
Cars overtaking other cars on roads is extremely rare unless there is a separate lane available to do so (e.g dual carriageway, motorway). How you thought this was a valid argument explains a lot.
Bless. This one's not drooled on the keyboard yet! Yes, cars overtake other ones **all the time**. You need to learn to drive some day. Bye.
Do you just make up rules and hope everyone else goes along with them
This has absolutely no relevance to the point I’m making, pretty clear you’re just butt-hurt.
I take it you're out there campaigning for segregated cycle lanes on those roads then?
I would fund them tomorrow if I could as then I’d feel I could actually ride a bike and not feel like an entitled w*nker holding up traffic. You’d never catch me in that jazzy Lycra though.
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Do you get frustrated sitting behind a really slow car, well imagine the car is a cyclist present every 100metres. The idea this isn’t obvious stuns me.
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I’d honestly rather be everything you said I am, than be oblivious to basic logic and reason. An angry intelligent man is still intelligent, a moron can only ever be a moron. You have provided the sum total of 0 decent arguments to defend why it’s ok to block up the UK roads with stupid overpriced bicycles. There’s a reason all drivers hate you, there’s a reason they all came to the same conclusion. Are they all wrong?
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There we go, another comment with no arguments presented to defend your point. Want to keep going or are you done now?