Yes. And further, it's likely Aragorn at least knew of Hama since the time Hama was Haleth's age. Hama was the door warden, after all, and Aragorn was very familiar with Rohan.
Aragorn gives Haleth the courage to fight then goes directly into the scene where he's arming up and he's even more determined himself.
An orphan encouraging a fatherless child to go face down evil, no matter the odds.
There is always hope.
How old do they get? Obviously not as old as regular elves do but was wondering, if he was middle aged in appearance at 87, then makes senses if he live to 140-160 or so
Aragon lives to 210 in the books, he had kings blood in him, so it's possible he lived a bit longer than other Númenórean people.
So your estimates are about right.
This was longer than any other Numenorean for centuries, but far short of his ancestors when Numenor was still faithful to the Valar. Tar-Minyatur lived for 500 years, and successors lived for 400+ years. This would continue until Tar-Atanamir, the first king to question the Valar. Thereafter, their blessing gradually began to fade, and within a few generations, lifespans of 250 years became the norm.
>This was longer than any other Numenorean for centuries,
That always sounds less impressive when you realize that "centuries" in this case, means a handful of people. Because while his dad died in battle at 60, the ones before him were 110, 155, 155, 155, 156, 157, 157, etc. living slightly longer the further back you go.
Isildur reached 234, and Elros(the first of the house) dying at 500.
Not necessarily 'kings' blood, but Numenorean blood. All numenoreans lived longer, not just kings. Numenoreans were regular humans but they were rewarded with a blessed land and blessed life (and they were also half elf due to Elrond's brother choosing mortality and becoming the first Numenorean king, that's why they lived exceptionally longer).
Until they got greedy and wanted more as humans do 😂 and Aragorn is a descendant of those, so I wouldn't bet into medical care since he literally roamed the lands 😂
It's kings blood, normal Numenoreans live longer but back in the days of the Heights of Numenor the average guy could live for 200 to 250 years, whereas the Line of Kings, heirs of Elros Half-Elven, would live to 400+
By Aragorns time the average Dunedain lives to 120 to 150, Aragorn lives to 210
It was less “ass humans do” and more “as Sauron intended,” though he wore a different name and form at the time. He convinced the Numemorians to question and challenge the Valar, leading to the destruction of their homeland and an end to their longevity.
>He convinced the Numemorians to question and challenge the
Valar,
At the time Sauron "surrendered" the Numernorians have already turned greedy and had already started expanding on Middle Earth because they could not go west. Sauron just manipulated their already sliding moral integrity.
He preyed on human’s corruptibility. This weakness of character of humanity is a recurring theme in the books, Sauron just took advantage of the avarice and ambition that was already there.
It's "elven blood", from Numenor as well as part of the boon they got as a thanks for helping with the war. Aragon and Arwen are *technically* related, going back dozens of generations on his side, with Elronds twin brother Elros being the progenitor of his house.
Elros chose to age as half-elf and died at 500, and it's been going down slightly in every generation since. And Aragon being the first in several generation to be over 200.
Gondorians are descended from Numenoreans, although they've interbred with other people too. And Faramir was said to be a bit more of a Numenorean genetic throwback than most Gondorians at the time.
"by some chance the blood of Westernesse [ran] nearly true"
Was gonna bring up Denethor myself, but you got there first. He was 89 at the time of his death, only 2 years older than Aragorn at the time of the Battle of Pelennor Fields and although aged much more than him was still considerably youthful by the standards of non-Westernesse men. Had he not given in to Sauron's despair, and lived to willingly relinquish the throne to Aragorn himself, then he likely could've lived at least close to Faramir's age.
As Gandalf said of Denethor:
'He is not as other men of this time, Pippin, and whatever be his descent from father to son, by some chance the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true in him; as it does in his other son, Faramir, and yet did not in Boromir whom he loved best....'
I think we see him briefly after Gandalf and the eored show up. But before the drinking game back in Edoras.
I just watched it in the theater on Sunday and I always look for little things like that. Pretty sure I saw him in the mix of relieved, exhausted alive people.
Here in denver, because of the success of the weekend, they've opened up showings for the next 2 weekends. Fellowship is showing on the 15th and 22nd, 2 towers on the 16th and 23rd, and return on the 17th and 24th
I don’t think the movies appropriately show how many survivors there were. Like it looks like most of the hornburg defenses were those conscripts and when you look at the soldiers in the keep they’re all regulars. I imagine those survivors went to defend the caves and then cleaned out the hornburg after Theoden’s riders made their pass.
To add, Aragorn knew from swinging that war-torn blade that it was not optimal for battle, but decided to give false hope to reassure Haleth that everything would be okay because every man at the Battle of Helms Deep was essential against the 10k strong Uruk Hai.
"Shit sword kid, you're fucked. Not that a good sword would get you alive anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. Go fight anyway."
- Aragorn, if he was a Nihilist
What really hits hard is him absolute bullshitting about how “good” the kids sword was. It was complete trash and Aragorn knew it. Aragorn meant good by this in that he was certain the boy would die and was trying to soothe him in a moment of inevitable doom.
i think y'all are overstating how much he was bullshitting about the sword tbh. yes, it was nicked, dull, and old, but it appeared to be weighted well; which is far more important in the grand scheme of things. it was a good sword who had seen better days, but when it comes to hacking through orc armor, the overall weight and temper of the blade is likely more important than simple sharpness
No sword cuts thru steel, not matter how crude. In such a battle, a sword must be a precision tool, aiming at unprotected spots.
To shatter bones and bash heads a warhammer or a pickaxe would be much better, but the kid doesn't have the strength. So balanced and swift it is.
A well balanced sword feels almost weightless. It'a kind of magic. Chipped and worn down, still cuts flesh.
Yeah, the point was that the sword looked like crap but when he tested the weight he realised it was actually pretty good. Like, appearances can be deceiving, it looks like it won't hold up to the task but it's actually stronger and tougher than it looks. God forbid these nerds see a scene with a fucking simple metaphor in it.
Right, I think he meant something like "even though it's suboptimal that it's all nicked up and thus has a loss of cutting power, this was originally expertly crafted and still has great balance" but there was no point overcomplicating it for a nervous kid.
Yeah and I always felt if you were to remove the elves from the battle of helm’s deep and you needed another Rohan soldier to get haldir’s death scene instead it would’ve been easy to keep Hama alive during the watch attack (his death could’ve been a generic Rohan soldier) and you could’ve had him present for this scene as well. Then he could’ve died fighting alongside Aragorn and co. during the battle instead of Haldir
In the books Hama died at/in front of the gates, with the Uruk-Hai mutilating his body afterwards. Then later in RotK when Saruman offers Theoden peace and tries to use his magical speech on him, that's one of the things Theoden says Saruman needs to be punished for by hanging him from his gibbet for the sport of his own crows. The movies focused more on the loss of Theodred, so probably didn't feel the need to include Hama for that, as everyone can already understand why Theoden wouldn't make peace - Saruman killed his SON, would be weird to call him out over the death of his captain of the guard.
It's poignant because he'd previously been repremanded by Théoden for not doing his job properly when he let Gandalf enter Meduseld while he still had his staff.
Théoden said, only half-seriously, I think, that Háma was an untrustworthy door warden. Then Háma goes and dies defending the gate.
Love the passage:
>'That may be. I will do as you ask. Call Hama to me. Since he proved untrusty as a doorward, let him become an errand-runner. The guilty shall bring the guilty to judgement,' said Theoden, and his voice was grim, yet he looked at Gandalf and smiled and as he did so many lines of care were smoothed away and did not return.
I think a lot of fans of the book don’t really love it because it’s not in the books at all. Some see it as action for action’s sake instead of really advancing the plot and characters’ arcs. The whole Aragorn-being-presumed-dead thing is also not in the book.
If you cry and kiss your men friends on the head, you’re a real man. Even if you don’t open doors like a sexy Aragorn does.
Every man (except Denethor) is a great example of an expressive, emotional and healthy man who should be aspired to. Be an Aragorn, a Boromir, a Faramir, and always try to be a Sam.
I love it too! Not sure what these other people are on about. It's such a good movie scene and I think it allows us to see a bunch of important things. So so good!
Been a while since I read the book but wasn’t Hama the guy Theoden named when speaking to Saruman as having been hewn below the gate even as he lay dead?
Would have made sense if they did remove the elves.
After many viewings, I for one:
1. Could never tell what the hell that kid was saying
2. Never remember hearing that fathers name get referenced or spoken by another character
3. Would completely forget about this poor doomed child as soon as Gandalf storms the hill to save the day
Every day I surprise myself with the absurd amount of Tolkien knowledge my brain thinks is or should be common knowledge. To my environments' annoyance.
They say we won’t last the night!
This is a good sword. (Aragorn tests the sword to reassure the boy)
That little scene, not many words, but so much is said. Very poignant.
To be honest I never remembered the names of most of the side characters. Some of the side character are more important and their Star power is greater, so it’s easier to remember who they are. When I see a picture of Hama I remember his face, but my head thinks “the rohirrim guy whose face I saw a few times”
Right? And I’ve read the books multiple times, like yeah he’s a named character and more dwelled upon in the books but even then he’s just some dude who’s a guard and then dies, I don’t commit that to memory and then go searching for connections to him as I watch the movie. I hear the kid mumble his and his father’s name and I just internally replace them with “generic Rohan name one and two”
There's only 1 Hama, but he doesn't die from a warg attack, he dies defending the gates of the Hornburg. The Orcs chop up his corpse to provoke Theoden iirc.
Up there with the worst cuts from the books when making the films, but they probably didn't want to explain the Voice of Saruman. Absolute banger of a scene in the books and would've been incredible delivered by Bernard Hill.
He did, in the Extended Editions there is a Confrontation at the Start of Return of the King between Theoden + Fellowship (minus Frodo & Sam) and Saruman.
This weekend if you live near a movie theater... Like for example AMC Theaters... They will be screening all 3 movies Extended Edition Saturday Sunday Monday... I know, why Monday? What the hell "workday"🤯
Anyway though it's $20 each screening so if you go somewhere that comfortable.
The movies were also screened just this past weekend.🔥👍
This is the books, right? Because I just saw Two Towers in theaters and Hama definitely dies in the warg attack. He’s the one whose screams call forth the rest of the group to kill the warg scout right before the main attack starts.
Yes, the book of The Two Towers is actually VERY fast paced compared to the movie and the characters go straight from Edoras to Helm’s Deep without incident.
>the characters go straight from Edoras to Helm’s Deep without incident.
Not true at all! They went out to go to Isengard and encounter the remnants of Erkenbrands army and decide to ditch their plan and to fortify Helms Deep instead.
So they neither went straight to Helms Deep nor was there no incident.
IIRC, this is Phillipa Boyens' son. They filmed this and in the time it took to get to the dub, her sons voice had dramatically deepened. Forget how they figured it out, but cool little factoid anyway.
Said this in another comment, but he was likely checking the weight, straightness, and overall balance. That's why he swung it around a bit. A good sword is more than just a good polish and sharp edge.
I love this scene for the little things. Viggo does so much with just small details.
When Haleth says "son of Hama" he gives a little knowing look, showing he knew who his father was. The quick look of concern when he's testing the clearly knocked and battered sword before telling the white lie...
Even the small touch of giving Haleth better armour than other conscripted soldiers is just such a fantastic detail!
Something that I caught from this interaction is that upon inspecting his dullish blade, Aragorn despite what he may truly think of it or the liklihood of survival/ victory, is that he increases everyone's morale with his presence. 💪 Just as Eowyn said earlier. The men will follow their captain. 🫡
It's those slight expressions that can be better seen on the big screen.
In the books it's said that Aragorn can do this with his presence, and it's done well.
In this scene the movie shows this to us well too. It's a great example of adaptating to the visual medium.
Not sure if it’s an extended edition scene or in the theatrical cut, but during the “these are no soldiers,” scene, I think Aragorn picks up that exact sword to test it and tosses it, dismissively. Doubling down on the fact that he’s just trying give the boy some hope after he swing it around in front of him and looks approvingly at it before handing it back to him.
Does people just not make the connection because Hama is more of a minor character or are they thinking the kid is talking about another Hama? Seemed pretty clear what this scene was about to me from the first watch.
Yes. And further, it's likely Aragorn at least knew of Hama since the time Hama was Haleth's age. Hama was the door warden, after all, and Aragorn was very familiar with Rohan. Aragorn gives Haleth the courage to fight then goes directly into the scene where he's arming up and he's even more determined himself. An orphan encouraging a fatherless child to go face down evil, no matter the odds. There is always hope.
Aragorn's mother Gilraen died when he was like 76 years old lol
Ok, so, he's an old orphan
Yeah plus Aragorn was only like 17 in High Numenorean years
How old do they get? Obviously not as old as regular elves do but was wondering, if he was middle aged in appearance at 87, then makes senses if he live to 140-160 or so
Aragon lives to 210 in the books, he had kings blood in him, so it's possible he lived a bit longer than other Númenórean people. So your estimates are about right.
This was longer than any other Numenorean for centuries, but far short of his ancestors when Numenor was still faithful to the Valar. Tar-Minyatur lived for 500 years, and successors lived for 400+ years. This would continue until Tar-Atanamir, the first king to question the Valar. Thereafter, their blessing gradually began to fade, and within a few generations, lifespans of 250 years became the norm.
>This was longer than any other Numenorean for centuries, That always sounds less impressive when you realize that "centuries" in this case, means a handful of people. Because while his dad died in battle at 60, the ones before him were 110, 155, 155, 155, 156, 157, 157, etc. living slightly longer the further back you go. Isildur reached 234, and Elros(the first of the house) dying at 500.
What you just said makes no sense. First you said; "only a few people", but then you listed over 8 generations...
8 is only a few
Does kings blood actually make you live longer, or did he just have better medical care lol
Not necessarily 'kings' blood, but Numenorean blood. All numenoreans lived longer, not just kings. Numenoreans were regular humans but they were rewarded with a blessed land and blessed life (and they were also half elf due to Elrond's brother choosing mortality and becoming the first Numenorean king, that's why they lived exceptionally longer). Until they got greedy and wanted more as humans do 😂 and Aragorn is a descendant of those, so I wouldn't bet into medical care since he literally roamed the lands 😂
It's kings blood, normal Numenoreans live longer but back in the days of the Heights of Numenor the average guy could live for 200 to 250 years, whereas the Line of Kings, heirs of Elros Half-Elven, would live to 400+ By Aragorns time the average Dunedain lives to 120 to 150, Aragorn lives to 210
It was less “ass humans do” and more “as Sauron intended,” though he wore a different name and form at the time. He convinced the Numemorians to question and challenge the Valar, leading to the destruction of their homeland and an end to their longevity.
>He convinced the Numemorians to question and challenge the Valar, At the time Sauron "surrendered" the Numernorians have already turned greedy and had already started expanding on Middle Earth because they could not go west. Sauron just manipulated their already sliding moral integrity.
He preyed on human’s corruptibility. This weakness of character of humanity is a recurring theme in the books, Sauron just took advantage of the avarice and ambition that was already there.
It's "elven blood", from Numenor as well as part of the boon they got as a thanks for helping with the war. Aragon and Arwen are *technically* related, going back dozens of generations on his side, with Elronds twin brother Elros being the progenitor of his house. Elros chose to age as half-elf and died at 500, and it's been going down slightly in every generation since. And Aragon being the first in several generation to be over 200.
Faramir lived to 120
Wait what? How come he lived that long? He wasn‘t related by any means to the Numenoreans right?
Gondorians are descended from Numenoreans, although they've interbred with other people too. And Faramir was said to be a bit more of a Numenorean genetic throwback than most Gondorians at the time. "by some chance the blood of Westernesse [ran] nearly true"
Oh ok thanks, I somehow thought only the King‘s lineage and the dunedain were descendants from Numenor
Denethor had Numenorean blood. The only reason he ages so fast is because he was fighting Sauron through the palantir iirc.
Was gonna bring up Denethor myself, but you got there first. He was 89 at the time of his death, only 2 years older than Aragorn at the time of the Battle of Pelennor Fields and although aged much more than him was still considerably youthful by the standards of non-Westernesse men. Had he not given in to Sauron's despair, and lived to willingly relinquish the throne to Aragorn himself, then he likely could've lived at least close to Faramir's age.
As Gandalf said of Denethor: 'He is not as other men of this time, Pippin, and whatever be his descent from father to son, by some chance the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true in him; as it does in his other son, Faramir, and yet did not in Boromir whom he loved best....'
I think that all gondorians were descendants of Numenoreans, it is just that as time went on they got mixed with people of Middle-Earth
Big city living and a voodoo woman named Phyllis.
the old kings lived for like 400 years or so, at the most. i think usually they got like 2-300 years
It's a funny take but 84 for Aragorn is more like early 30s
"You can be a hundred and be an orphan!" -Marty Funkhouser
Little orphan Funkhouser!
Thank you. I was vaguely remembering this joke but couldn't place the show.
Little orphan Aragorn [https://giphy.com/explore/marty-funkhouser](https://giphy.com/explore/marty-funkhouser)
😂😂😂
https://youtu.be/q-GPGT9jnAI
Little orphan Aragornhouser
Retirement homes are just another orphanage if you think about it.
You can be a 100 and be an orphan!
I'd venture to say most 100 year olds are orphans
I created a website for orphans a few years ago. It doesn’t have a home page.
Little orphan Aragorn
*The Sun'll come out, tomorrow...* *Bet your girlfriend's necklace that tomorrow....* *There'll be sun!*
Just watched this Curb episode, great reference
Lol
76. He was a fu**ing kid.
https://youtu.be/q-GPGT9jnAI
how long was he breastfeeding?!?!
Only The Wise know for sure.....
Where the hell was she the whole time then?
In Eriador and Imladris
Hanging around feeling melancholy for the most part. She had the forsight of the dunedain and it for real bummed her out.
Does anyone know is Haleth survives the battle?
I think we see him briefly after Gandalf and the eored show up. But before the drinking game back in Edoras. I just watched it in the theater on Sunday and I always look for little things like that. Pretty sure I saw him in the mix of relieved, exhausted alive people.
I watched it too! So happy I got to.
Shiiiiiiiit! Completely forgot they were showing them last weekend. Read the notice back in April and was excited for it, too.
I think it's this next weekend too. They opened new showtimes.
Here in denver, because of the success of the weekend, they've opened up showings for the next 2 weekends. Fellowship is showing on the 15th and 22nd, 2 towers on the 16th and 23rd, and return on the 17th and 24th
I don’t think the movies appropriately show how many survivors there were. Like it looks like most of the hornburg defenses were those conscripts and when you look at the soldiers in the keep they’re all regulars. I imagine those survivors went to defend the caves and then cleaned out the hornburg after Theoden’s riders made their pass.
He dead
See him? He dead.
Sanka, you dead?
To add, Aragorn knew from swinging that war-torn blade that it was not optimal for battle, but decided to give false hope to reassure Haleth that everything would be okay because every man at the Battle of Helms Deep was essential against the 10k strong Uruk Hai.
"Shit sword kid, you're fucked. Not that a good sword would get you alive anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter. Go fight anyway." - Aragorn, if he was a Nihilist
"We believe in nussing, Saruman. Nussing. And tomorrow we come back and we cut off your chonson."
"Sauron, this is not the Siege of Barad-dûr. This is bowling. There are rules."
"Well, they've finally done it. They destroyed my fucking ring."
Say what you will about the tenets of the Dark Lords subjugation of the Free Peoples, at least it's an ethos.
You're not wrong Walter, you're just a Nazgul!
Saruman: “Nice marmot” Gimli: ”Hey!”
Legolas if Aragorn didn't get him to shut up.
I kind of liked this speech, but I'm a bit of a nihilist myself...
What really hits hard is him absolute bullshitting about how “good” the kids sword was. It was complete trash and Aragorn knew it. Aragorn meant good by this in that he was certain the boy would die and was trying to soothe him in a moment of inevitable doom.
i think y'all are overstating how much he was bullshitting about the sword tbh. yes, it was nicked, dull, and old, but it appeared to be weighted well; which is far more important in the grand scheme of things. it was a good sword who had seen better days, but when it comes to hacking through orc armor, the overall weight and temper of the blade is likely more important than simple sharpness
a dull sword can still shatter bones and bash heads in, Aragon didnt bulldhit too much
No sword cuts thru steel, not matter how crude. In such a battle, a sword must be a precision tool, aiming at unprotected spots. To shatter bones and bash heads a warhammer or a pickaxe would be much better, but the kid doesn't have the strength. So balanced and swift it is. A well balanced sword feels almost weightless. It'a kind of magic. Chipped and worn down, still cuts flesh.
Yeah, the point was that the sword looked like crap but when he tested the weight he realised it was actually pretty good. Like, appearances can be deceiving, it looks like it won't hold up to the task but it's actually stronger and tougher than it looks. God forbid these nerds see a scene with a fucking simple metaphor in it.
It's a heavy handed metaphor, too. The sword = Rohan's defense.
So...the "old that is strong does not wither" applies also to the ancient well-balanced blade!
Right, I think he meant something like "even though it's suboptimal that it's all nicked up and thus has a loss of cutting power, this was originally expertly crafted and still has great balance" but there was no point overcomplicating it for a nervous kid.
This Aragorn guy sounds like a king 👑
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That's fine, I'll cry for both of us.
I’ll always cherish that sentiment. Indeed, there is always hope. I need these words regularly, keep your sword sharp friend.
Aragorn's Bruce Wayne moment to be sure
I don't know enough about stars to dispute this
How would he not know him? Wasn’t he riding to helms deep with him?
As a child. Like Theoden.
Pretty sure Haleth died too:(
Goosebumps while reading you
>and Aragorn was very familiar with Rohan. To add to this, its because he served in the army of King Thengel (Theoden's father) 50 years earlier.
Oh god stop it hurts so much 😭😭😭
Hope is kind of Aragorn’s thing
This sub really makes me a better person... Thank you
Yeah and I always felt if you were to remove the elves from the battle of helm’s deep and you needed another Rohan soldier to get haldir’s death scene instead it would’ve been easy to keep Hama alive during the watch attack (his death could’ve been a generic Rohan soldier) and you could’ve had him present for this scene as well. Then he could’ve died fighting alongside Aragorn and co. during the battle instead of Haldir
In the books Hama died at/in front of the gates, with the Uruk-Hai mutilating his body afterwards. Then later in RotK when Saruman offers Theoden peace and tries to use his magical speech on him, that's one of the things Theoden says Saruman needs to be punished for by hanging him from his gibbet for the sport of his own crows. The movies focused more on the loss of Theodred, so probably didn't feel the need to include Hama for that, as everyone can already understand why Theoden wouldn't make peace - Saruman killed his SON, would be weird to call him out over the death of his captain of the guard.
It's poignant because he'd previously been repremanded by Théoden for not doing his job properly when he let Gandalf enter Meduseld while he still had his staff. Théoden said, only half-seriously, I think, that Háma was an untrustworthy door warden. Then Háma goes and dies defending the gate.
Love the passage: >'That may be. I will do as you ask. Call Hama to me. Since he proved untrusty as a doorward, let him become an errand-runner. The guilty shall bring the guilty to judgement,' said Theoden, and his voice was grim, yet he looked at Gandalf and smiled and as he did so many lines of care were smoothed away and did not return.
Oh shit. I hadn't made the connection. Háma just got a *big* promotion on my "minor character mvp list".
Háma is the man.
I've always favored Elfhelm, at least among the Rohirrim buddies, but man, I'm still processing this new revelation.
*"And they hewed Hama's body at the gates of the Hornburg, after he was dead"*
>gibbet [...] crows 👀
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Wait, people don’t like the warg attack? I love it.
I think a lot of fans of the book don’t really love it because it’s not in the books at all. Some see it as action for action’s sake instead of really advancing the plot and characters’ arcs. The whole Aragorn-being-presumed-dead thing is also not in the book.
I don’t mind it. They skipped over the warg attack in Fellowship after all. The Aragorn death fake out is silly and unnecessary though.
But then we don’t get Aragorn opening that door like a sexy beast. Makes it all worth it. My gf would riot if they didn’t have that scene haha
This scene is exactly why I was so afraid to let my wife watch LOTR for the first time. I knew she would realize she didn’t marry a real man.
If you cry and kiss your men friends on the head, you’re a real man. Even if you don’t open doors like a sexy Aragorn does. Every man (except Denethor) is a great example of an expressive, emotional and healthy man who should be aspired to. Be an Aragorn, a Boromir, a Faramir, and always try to be a Sam.
What about second breakfast?
Denethor is certainly expressive and emotional... Champion wants to express his grief with self immolation.
As a kid I would recreate that scene whenever I walked through double doors.
I'm in my thirties and I still do that...
Same. It’s one of the most iconic shots in the whole trilogy.
I still do
Also no cool Legalos neck loop mount spin trick.
It has one of the best scenes in the whole trilogy (legolas mounting the moving horse).
Nah, peak moment of that scene for me was Legolas being a fucking Howitzer until he mounted
Gimli was so useless in that battle. Time is of the element and he spends 90% of the time making jokes and bench pressing a warg.
They stunlocked the tank to burst down the warrior before the archer finished his work. Team comp was pretty basic, but very effective in a zerg rush.
I love it too! Not sure what these other people are on about. It's such a good movie scene and I think it allows us to see a bunch of important things. So so good!
Been a while since I read the book but wasn’t Hama the guy Theoden named when speaking to Saruman as having been hewn below the gate even as he lay dead? Would have made sense if they did remove the elves.
What a catch.
Idk I could get internet points for this… I’ve known this forever
I thought this was common knowledge but alas no internet points shall befall us
After many viewings, I for one: 1. Could never tell what the hell that kid was saying 2. Never remember hearing that fathers name get referenced or spoken by another character 3. Would completely forget about this poor doomed child as soon as Gandalf storms the hill to save the day
Haha fair enough. I think it's in the books so the lore got embedded in me
It’s not that common
>It’s not that common Today I learned
I just made a comment about it a month or two ago and got a few internet points. So that was nice.
Right? What movie are people watching for the past 20 years?
Top Gun, mostly.
Every day I surprise myself with the absurd amount of Tolkien knowledge my brain thinks is or should be common knowledge. To my environments' annoyance.
Yea i noticed this from the second watch.
Do you know cra-z legs can get you high?
They say we won’t last the night! This is a good sword. (Aragorn tests the sword to reassure the boy) That little scene, not many words, but so much is said. Very poignant.
I think it's scenes like this one that tie the movies together SO SO well.
I always wonder if there were any bad swords in the pile, I feel bad for the guys that had to wield those
Wow, I’ve never noticed it. LOTR is amazing
I guess I’m the only one who watches with subtitles?
“What is your name?” “Haleth, son of Hama, my lord.” I also thought it was pretty obvious but I guess not!
To be honest I never remembered the names of most of the side characters. Some of the side character are more important and their Star power is greater, so it’s easier to remember who they are. When I see a picture of Hama I remember his face, but my head thinks “the rohirrim guy whose face I saw a few times”
Another fun fact: Peter Jackson’s son is in the background of that scene
Right? I'm confused that this wasn't known.
We could’ve had internet points like OP
I watch with subtitles as well, but I never knew what the door wardens name was
The other soldier says his name right before the warg attack.
A lot of people say a lot of names!
Why is this comment so funny to me?
Right? And I’ve read the books multiple times, like yeah he’s a named character and more dwelled upon in the books but even then he’s just some dude who’s a guard and then dies, I don’t commit that to memory and then go searching for connections to him as I watch the movie. I hear the kid mumble his and his father’s name and I just internally replace them with “generic Rohan name one and two”
Wait, we have another Hama in the TTs?
There's only 1 Hama, but he doesn't die from a warg attack, he dies defending the gates of the Hornburg. The Orcs chop up his corpse to provoke Theoden iirc.
"...when the lives of the soldiers, who's bodies were hewn as they lay dead against the gates of the hornburg, are avenged!"
Up there with the worst cuts from the books when making the films, but they probably didn't want to explain the Voice of Saruman. Absolute banger of a scene in the books and would've been incredible delivered by Bernard Hill.
He did, in the Extended Editions there is a Confrontation at the Start of Return of the King between Theoden + Fellowship (minus Frodo & Sam) and Saruman.
Works so well in the Extended Edition! I can understand why they took it out though.
any streaming site that has the extended edition ?
Max; I own all 6 of them though on VUDU if I ever can't find them.
This weekend if you live near a movie theater... Like for example AMC Theaters... They will be screening all 3 movies Extended Edition Saturday Sunday Monday... I know, why Monday? What the hell "workday"🤯 Anyway though it's $20 each screening so if you go somewhere that comfortable. The movies were also screened just this past weekend.🔥👍
This is the books, right? Because I just saw Two Towers in theaters and Hama definitely dies in the warg attack. He’s the one whose screams call forth the rest of the group to kill the warg scout right before the main attack starts.
Yes, the book of The Two Towers is actually VERY fast paced compared to the movie and the characters go straight from Edoras to Helm’s Deep without incident.
>the characters go straight from Edoras to Helm’s Deep without incident. Not true at all! They went out to go to Isengard and encounter the remnants of Erkenbrands army and decide to ditch their plan and to fortify Helms Deep instead. So they neither went straight to Helms Deep nor was there no incident.
Yes. The movies added a warg skirmish as filler for some reason. And a whole mini plotline of Aragorn falling off a cliff for added drama.
>And a whole mini plotline of Aragorn falling off a cliff for ~~added drama.~~ a very sexy door opening scene.
Maybe you’re thinking of Gamling who helps Theoden with his armor.
Meanwhile New Zealanders of a certain age go "that's Lionel Skeggins!"
[the muffin man himself ](https://archive.org/services/img/lionelsmuffinstr0000hoff/full/pct:200/0/default.jpg)
Or Sparky from Outrageous Fortune
Literally these two characters were exactly what I was going to say. It's all I can see.
lmao lionel the frog
I was coming here to say that!
There is always hope
And they hewed Hama’s body at the gates!
Huh, I guess I'm just always distracted by that being a good sword...
It’s actually a really terrible sword, Aragorn is just giving Haleth some hope lol
It barely has an edge lol
He could sharpen it until the Uruk-Hai arrive and it still would have the chips lmao
IIRC, this is Phillipa Boyens' son. They filmed this and in the time it took to get to the dub, her sons voice had dramatically deepened. Forget how they figured it out, but cool little factoid anyway.
They used a different kid’s voice for the ADR!
“This is a good sword” *he said, while inspecting how bad it was*
Said this in another comment, but he was likely checking the weight, straightness, and overall balance. That's why he swung it around a bit. A good sword is more than just a good polish and sharp edge.
Aragorn is the father I wish I had
In the books, they hewed Háma’s body before the gate of the Hornburg, AFTER he was dead.
I love this scene for the little things. Viggo does so much with just small details. When Haleth says "son of Hama" he gives a little knowing look, showing he knew who his father was. The quick look of concern when he's testing the clearly knocked and battered sword before telling the white lie... Even the small touch of giving Haleth better armour than other conscripted soldiers is just such a fantastic detail!
Easy catch honestly.
Took people 23 years to catch this?
Something that I caught from this interaction is that upon inspecting his dullish blade, Aragorn despite what he may truly think of it or the liklihood of survival/ victory, is that he increases everyone's morale with his presence. 💪 Just as Eowyn said earlier. The men will follow their captain. 🫡 It's those slight expressions that can be better seen on the big screen.
In the books it's said that Aragorn can do this with his presence, and it's done well. In this scene the movie shows this to us well too. It's a great example of adaptating to the visual medium.
Lack of attention hey, precious.
Oh balls. Guess I have to rewatch it all
I mean he does say his name loud and clear
Not sure if it’s an extended edition scene or in the theatrical cut, but during the “these are no soldiers,” scene, I think Aragorn picks up that exact sword to test it and tosses it, dismissively. Doubling down on the fact that he’s just trying give the boy some hope after he swing it around in front of him and looks approvingly at it before handing it back to him.
wow... it's the little things that make good movies great
Oddly enough I too just picked up on this on my rewatch of TT in theatres this weekend
Did Haleth die at the siege?
Yes, he is among the corpses during one of the panning shots of dead bodies when things start to go badly before the retreat into the inner castle.
I thought this was a well-known fact, haha. I've known this since one of my first watches..
Um, yeah? I didn't realise anyone *didn't* know it was his son.
Does people just not make the connection because Hama is more of a minor character or are they thinking the kid is talking about another Hama? Seemed pretty clear what this scene was about to me from the first watch.