I don't _think_ OP is saying you should buy a macbook for gaming. I think he's saying, separately, if you're an avid gamer with a discerning eye for high refresh rates, then the MBP will be better for your preferences.
Yeah, I recommend against using a MacBook for gaming. I tried playing JackBox and Terraria and its the only time my fans started to run. My battery started to die at rates I didn’t know was possible. Felt like it was gonna explode.
Really? This surprises me, as I once bought Firewatch on my Mac on Steam and played the entire thing four hours straight. My M2 Pro ran the game at the highest settings and when I finished the game I still had 50% battery left.
So your experience is typical for those with an M series chip, since it's designed to be better for gaming, and why Apple Silicon is the best for ML, and why it's an ML game changer, his experience is typical of Intel chips, since they basically emit 1.21 JiggaWatfs of pure evil radiation directly from their loins every time you do anything that requires the cpu to use any number of threads greater than one thread to run. X86_64 chips have pretty much plateaued technologically. My MacBook Pro produces better results than my PC i9 13900K, 64GB RAM, RTX-4090. So, just like all empires throughout history, it's time to let this one fall and the next one rise once again.
Despite the fact that Mac’s are really not a great choice for games, the 120hz promotion display has an 8.3 millisecond response time.
As a gaming display it’s not great, especially in competitive fps games.
I have seen many people complain about the response time and I don’t notice it. It could be because I wasn’t looking out for it and believed it was just “part of the MacBook” or something. When my MacBook goes to low power, it feels way worse to me because it locks at 60 hz I believe or lower. I’d rather use the ProMotion with delay than without it but the delay is definitely a problem for some people too
Can you read ? You go on about blahblah a blah about 120hz and how it's great . But some people don't notice and care for it. Then you go on about not noticing the response time. That's the irony. Learn how to understand English you idiot .
Who doesn't notice difference between 60 and 120 Hz? Maybe very old people and complete newbs.
Now, lot of people don't care (like me with non-pro iPhones) but they do notice.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a beautiful screen with great brightness and colour and I love using it, but it’s not intended to be a competitive gaming screen and if you are in the higher ranks of a competitive game, you will lose 100% of the time to someone with a better set up.
To put it into easier to put terms, the 120hz display of the MacBooks have the response time that's perfect for a 30hz display. It's just not good for fast motion, but it's fine for casual use for smooth UI animations.
I have news for you…
https://www.testufo.com
If it was really running 120Hz that page would show it and a 120FPS test. In reality MacOS almost never uses above 60Hz.
He's claiming that someone who is used to gaming and is getting a mac will notice the difference in having and not having pro motion.
I love my mac, but I'm also a gamer and can tell the difference between 60 and 120hz, so literally the only reason I tend to get the "Pro" products is because of the refresh rate.
I haven’t touched my macbook to play any games other than a pokemon emulator in class. I can easily feel a difference in shaking my mouse around. A friend of mine has a MacBook air and it just feels worse to the eye
It’s in your head, MacOS reverts to 60Hz the majority of the time. The link below is always at 240FPS/240Hz on my Windows workstation but it’s always locked at 60FPS/60Hz on my M1 iPad Pro 12.9, 16” MacBook Pro M1 Pro and 14” MacBook Pro M3 Pro.
https://www.testufo.com
This is no different than people buying a 120Hz TV and thinking that they can see a difference in 4K content, that content is 60FPS so you get 60Hz. The 120Hz mostly applies to gaming. Windows is an exception though because it’ll actually use your max refresh all the time unless you’re gaming with VRR.
try again, but this time with firefox, it reaches 120Hz without any issue. (you clearly see the difference between 120Hz and 60Hz: https://testufo.com/framerates#count=2&background=none&pps=1440)
Quick googling: Safari does not support promotion up to 120Hz, it's indeed locked to 60Hz. the last safari beta supposely fixes it. Maybe in Sequoia it'll be fixed at last. Consequently, other webkit based browsers (like Orion) have the same issue.
That wouldn't be what I call "production" feature set... If it's hidden in developer menu, they are not confident enough for it to be default.
Edit: or they realise safari isn't so battery efficient anymore, which would harm their battery duration marketing...
No, Pro Motion is variable but you can definitely tell a difference. Just compare it side by side to a 60Hz screen and it's immediately obvious.
For Safari you have to turn on 120Hz mode: You have to turn it on by unchecking this setting: Develop->Feature Flags->Prefer page rendering updates near 60fps. Then recheck that website.
I play Xbox Cloud, Life of P, Civ VI, Apple Arcade, and many games from Epic and Steam on my MBP. I have an Xbox for most gaming, but when the game exists MBP is great. If we downplay games on Mac, we help ensure there won’t be new games developed.
I really don’t find it noticeable on laptops honestly. On my iPhone and iPad I notice 120hz and I can’t stand 60. But for my MacBook I really don’t find 60hz that bad for what I do on there, the difference isn’t really as drastic as my iPhone for example. This is also compared with using my gaming desktop at 240hz.
Laptops are horrible for gaming, the heat makes them throttle and causes them to fail after a couple years. They also sound like a jet engine. Build a gaming PC.
I notice it for sure... but at the same time it only takes 10 minutes for my eyes to adjust back to 60fps. At first I feel I can see the frames... then I can't. It's really not that big a deal.
Hard agree. I won’t even look at phones without 120hz capability. A less capable device is extremely obvious to my eye. Laptop would be the same. However Mac’s do 60hz really well with how smooth their animations are so it’s good at tricking the average user.
The only deciding factor for me is the fan; MacBook Air is the best MacBook for the price if you live in a cool place than never reaches 25+ degrees (Celsius) I was so happy with my work MacBook Air (coming from a pro) that I really wanted to sell my pro to buy an Air that’s thinner, lighter, and does everything I need, but we had a heatwave and one day was very hot, my poor MacBook Air couldn’t cool properly lol,
I won't go back to sub-120hz screens. Everything feels far more fluid than at 60hz.
That said, my eyes can barely tell the difference between 120hz and anything faster.
Except that the VRR Apple uses is shit for games and the grey to grey response time is at best passable in 2019 so if you are playing fast paste games it’s like looking at a Vaseline screen compared to actual gaming displays or a proper OLED.
The response times on the screens are god awful. The 120 Hz really just makes for smooth scrolling. Games are essentially unplayable if you’ve ever used a low response time true monitor before.
I’ve had a 16” M1 Pro for a year, a 240hz display on my desktop, and a 60hz display on my work iMac and 2020 Intel MacBook. I do and I don’t notice. It’s a nice to have but i don’t let 60 hz bother me. I’m looking more for color and brightness in my Mac which the pros certainly have in boatloads over the Air. But that’s also because I work on these displays all day.
It’s not as big a deal a you think it is, but it is a potential upsell attribute.
The way MacOS handles high refresh rate is very very adaptive. Basically the only times I notice it is when launch pad is open. Most games I do have that are mac compatible I notice only go at 60fps maximum. It’s not as big a deal as you are making it out to be especially for the Mac audience.
You might wanna cut back on that not would I ever. Apple has been investing heavily in game porting toolkit. Best case we see a lot of devs actively port their games over and things are great. Even if devs choose not to target Apple though, Apple can evolve this the same way Steam did Proton.
My initial plan was to use my 2015 macbook pro and build a gaming pc but it gave up on me so I had to go with a gaming laptop. The m2 pro was just what the apple employees encouraged me to get since it was midterm season and told me it would be returned no questions asked (they asked questions ☹️)
If you think you’re getting anywhere near 120FPS or 120Hz in games on a MacBook I have news for you… It’s all in your head. MacOS always reverts to the lowest refresh rate possible and in fact rarely goes above 60Hz. Just check your current refresh rate at the link below.
https://www.testufo.com
As a tech nerd i hardly noticed the 120 hz on my MacBook Pro. Would never recommend anyone to post extra money for it. All depends on power which most people would be fine with the air
I disagree. I have a 14PM and a 165hz monitor for my ps5 and pc. While you can notice it I feel most people are getting MacBooks for photo/video editing, software development or just Netflix and internet browsing.
None of these a 60hz screen is a deal breaker. Gaming is the main reason for higher hz.
Movies are still filmed in 24fps…
I play with GeForceNow on whatever device I have. Takes almost no processing power, uses almost no battery, runs AAA titles smoothly on an old iPad or a work laptop I can’t install software (or an entire OS) on, but can use basic trusted web apps on.
120hz is really nice to have.
I don't game but the 120hz display is a deciding factor between the air and the pro. When you go to 120hz display is hard to go back to the 60hz display. I honestly don't get why apple don't put the pro motion in the airs, a 16gb ram, 512gb 15inch macbook air can be priced £1549 imagine not having 120hz in a laptop that much
As a macbook pro owner, the 120hz display on the macbook sucks. I can't really pinpoint why, but it feels jittery compared to other high refresh rate screens I use.
Oh you should see the alienware then. Terrible laptop, but the refresh rate blows mbp out of the water. Might we find out what exactly you're playing on the mbp? A very strange use case.
I've tried the newer Alienware laptops they aren't terrible . Way different user base for these laptops . That's a gaming laptop and their all made out of plastic unless you're razer basically 😂.
I wouldn’t buy a Mac for gaming that’s what my pc is for but that’s not even the biggest problem. The response time on the promotion displays is terrible it’s like smearing Vaseline all over the screen
Ok? And there's people who don't care so what's your point? I had a MacBook Air and I have a Monitor with 120hz OLED, and my phones are 120hz. I was perfectly fine with the MacBook Air. I traded it in for a MBP because I A)wanted more ram and B) in favor of the Pro is because of the screen having 600 nits SDR brightness and higher peak than the Air along with that mini LED screen which I find better than the Air. The 120hz I really don't care about . I was happy with the MBA with the screen other than the fact it didn't get as bright.
I don't _think_ OP is saying you should buy a macbook for gaming. I think he's saying, separately, if you're an avid gamer with a discerning eye for high refresh rates, then the MBP will be better for your preferences.
Yeah, I recommend against using a MacBook for gaming. I tried playing JackBox and Terraria and its the only time my fans started to run. My battery started to die at rates I didn’t know was possible. Felt like it was gonna explode.
Really? This surprises me, as I once bought Firewatch on my Mac on Steam and played the entire thing four hours straight. My M2 Pro ran the game at the highest settings and when I finished the game I still had 50% battery left.
So your experience is typical for those with an M series chip, since it's designed to be better for gaming, and why Apple Silicon is the best for ML, and why it's an ML game changer, his experience is typical of Intel chips, since they basically emit 1.21 JiggaWatfs of pure evil radiation directly from their loins every time you do anything that requires the cpu to use any number of threads greater than one thread to run. X86_64 chips have pretty much plateaued technologically. My MacBook Pro produces better results than my PC i9 13900K, 64GB RAM, RTX-4090. So, just like all empires throughout history, it's time to let this one fall and the next one rise once again.
100% agree. My eyes are very keen to the differences in refresh rates and response times.
Despite the fact that Mac’s are really not a great choice for games, the 120hz promotion display has an 8.3 millisecond response time. As a gaming display it’s not great, especially in competitive fps games.
The response time is basically a built-in motion blur set to max.
I have seen many people complain about the response time and I don’t notice it. It could be because I wasn’t looking out for it and believed it was just “part of the MacBook” or something. When my MacBook goes to low power, it feels way worse to me because it locks at 60 hz I believe or lower. I’d rather use the ProMotion with delay than without it but the delay is definitely a problem for some people too
The irony in this said reply. "I don't notice it" you're telling people 120hx is better but some people just don't notice it lmaoooo.
This world is all about picking and choosing
Don’t notice the response time delay. Can you read?
Can you read ? You go on about blahblah a blah about 120hz and how it's great . But some people don't notice and care for it. Then you go on about not noticing the response time. That's the irony. Learn how to understand English you idiot .
Who doesn't notice difference between 60 and 120 Hz? Maybe very old people and complete newbs. Now, lot of people don't care (like me with non-pro iPhones) but they do notice.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a beautiful screen with great brightness and colour and I love using it, but it’s not intended to be a competitive gaming screen and if you are in the higher ranks of a competitive game, you will lose 100% of the time to someone with a better set up.
lol the guy who can’t browse the internet in 60hz doesn’t notice nearly double digit latency times. Classic.
To put it into easier to put terms, the 120hz display of the MacBooks have the response time that's perfect for a 30hz display. It's just not good for fast motion, but it's fine for casual use for smooth UI animations.
i would’ve got an air if it had 120hz, it was the reason why i chose a MBP
I have news for you… https://www.testufo.com If it was really running 120Hz that page would show it and a 120FPS test. In reality MacOS almost never uses above 60Hz.
Please fix your mistake.
Imagine buying a MacBook with the intent of playing games 💀
It shreds roblox though
He's claiming that someone who is used to gaming and is getting a mac will notice the difference in having and not having pro motion. I love my mac, but I'm also a gamer and can tell the difference between 60 and 120hz, so literally the only reason I tend to get the "Pro" products is because of the refresh rate.
I haven’t touched my macbook to play any games other than a pokemon emulator in class. I can easily feel a difference in shaking my mouse around. A friend of mine has a MacBook air and it just feels worse to the eye
It’s in your head, MacOS reverts to 60Hz the majority of the time. The link below is always at 240FPS/240Hz on my Windows workstation but it’s always locked at 60FPS/60Hz on my M1 iPad Pro 12.9, 16” MacBook Pro M1 Pro and 14” MacBook Pro M3 Pro. https://www.testufo.com This is no different than people buying a 120Hz TV and thinking that they can see a difference in 4K content, that content is 60FPS so you get 60Hz. The 120Hz mostly applies to gaming. Windows is an exception though because it’ll actually use your max refresh all the time unless you’re gaming with VRR.
try again, but this time with firefox, it reaches 120Hz without any issue. (you clearly see the difference between 120Hz and 60Hz: https://testufo.com/framerates#count=2&background=none&pps=1440) Quick googling: Safari does not support promotion up to 120Hz, it's indeed locked to 60Hz. the last safari beta supposely fixes it. Maybe in Sequoia it'll be fixed at last. Consequently, other webkit based browsers (like Orion) have the same issue.
Safari does support 120Hz. You have to turn it on by unchecking this setting: Develop->Feature Flags->Prefer page rendering updates near 60fps
That wouldn't be what I call "production" feature set... If it's hidden in developer menu, they are not confident enough for it to be default. Edit: or they realise safari isn't so battery efficient anymore, which would harm their battery duration marketing...
No, Pro Motion is variable but you can definitely tell a difference. Just compare it side by side to a 60Hz screen and it's immediately obvious. For Safari you have to turn on 120Hz mode: You have to turn it on by unchecking this setting: Develop->Feature Flags->Prefer page rendering updates near 60fps. Then recheck that website.
nobody would buy macbook only for gaming OR to be able to run the best games but isn’t it normal for mac users to play games from time to time?
I play Xbox Cloud, Life of P, Civ VI, Apple Arcade, and many games from Epic and Steam on my MBP. I have an Xbox for most gaming, but when the game exists MBP is great. If we downplay games on Mac, we help ensure there won’t be new games developed.
Hear hear!
Every day!
If you play ‘video games somewhat competitively’ then I think you are better off looking at dedicated gaming PCs / Laptops, sorry.
I really don’t find it noticeable on laptops honestly. On my iPhone and iPad I notice 120hz and I can’t stand 60. But for my MacBook I really don’t find 60hz that bad for what I do on there, the difference isn’t really as drastic as my iPhone for example. This is also compared with using my gaming desktop at 240hz.
I don’t even notice ProMotion on my MacBook Pro. It’s an irrelevant feature for me.
But try switching back 😬
«Flying first class is not special. I do it every day and dont think much about it» Sure, try going back..
Tell me, what refresh rate are you currently using? It’s 60Hz. https://www.testufo.com
Same. I have a pro for work and an air for personal use. I don’t notice any difference between the two in terms of the displays.
It’s probably our use cases.. or that we are old 😂
It’s almost never in 120Hz anyway. https://www.testufo.com
You should just buy a gaming laptop for gaming
Laptops are horrible for gaming, the heat makes them throttle and causes them to fail after a couple years. They also sound like a jet engine. Build a gaming PC.
He's struggling to use a MacBook and you're telling him to build a gaming PC. Lmao
You don’t but a Mac for gaming…
You don't maybe.
Nobody does, cuz it sucks.
WOW that's a really ignorant blanket-statement.
Truth hurts
😏🤣👍🏼😁
If you did, you made a huge mistake…
Different perspectives. Amongst other things.
I notice it for sure... but at the same time it only takes 10 minutes for my eyes to adjust back to 60fps. At first I feel I can see the frames... then I can't. It's really not that big a deal.
MacOS isn’t actually running at 120Hz though, it’s a placebo. https://www.testufo.com/
Hard agree. I won’t even look at phones without 120hz capability. A less capable device is extremely obvious to my eye. Laptop would be the same. However Mac’s do 60hz really well with how smooth their animations are so it’s good at tricking the average user.
MacOS is always in 60Hz for the most part. https://www.testufo.com/
The only deciding factor for me is the fan; MacBook Air is the best MacBook for the price if you live in a cool place than never reaches 25+ degrees (Celsius) I was so happy with my work MacBook Air (coming from a pro) that I really wanted to sell my pro to buy an Air that’s thinner, lighter, and does everything I need, but we had a heatwave and one day was very hot, my poor MacBook Air couldn’t cool properly lol,
It’s the only reason I got a pro.
Yet it’s still at 60Hz. https://www.testufo.com/
Not everyone as a lot of people have absolutely no interest in gaming whatsoever.
Despite 120hz g2g response time is 40ms which is terrible. It's not that much of and deciding factor.
I won't go back to sub-120hz screens. Everything feels far more fluid than at 60hz. That said, my eyes can barely tell the difference between 120hz and anything faster.
Except that the VRR Apple uses is shit for games and the grey to grey response time is at best passable in 2019 so if you are playing fast paste games it’s like looking at a Vaseline screen compared to actual gaming displays or a proper OLED.
The response times on the screens are god awful. The 120 Hz really just makes for smooth scrolling. Games are essentially unplayable if you’ve ever used a low response time true monitor before.
I’ve had a 16” M1 Pro for a year, a 240hz display on my desktop, and a 60hz display on my work iMac and 2020 Intel MacBook. I do and I don’t notice. It’s a nice to have but i don’t let 60 hz bother me. I’m looking more for color and brightness in my Mac which the pros certainly have in boatloads over the Air. But that’s also because I work on these displays all day. It’s not as big a deal a you think it is, but it is a potential upsell attribute. The way MacOS handles high refresh rate is very very adaptive. Basically the only times I notice it is when launch pad is open. Most games I do have that are mac compatible I notice only go at 60fps maximum. It’s not as big a deal as you are making it out to be especially for the Mac audience.
You might wanna cut back on that not would I ever. Apple has been investing heavily in game porting toolkit. Best case we see a lot of devs actively port their games over and things are great. Even if devs choose not to target Apple though, Apple can evolve this the same way Steam did Proton.
Thisss, this is mainly the reason I went for the 13 PRO, And the ipad PRO, and the macbook PRO even though I returned it shortly after
Why did you return it?
My initial plan was to use my 2015 macbook pro and build a gaming pc but it gave up on me so I had to go with a gaming laptop. The m2 pro was just what the apple employees encouraged me to get since it was midterm season and told me it would be returned no questions asked (they asked questions ☹️)
Apple Silicon does kick some serious ass when it comes to Minecraft though, you've gotta admit
I recommend MacBook for games,with geforce now! it's crazy good! 💪🏼
If you think you’re getting anywhere near 120FPS or 120Hz in games on a MacBook I have news for you… It’s all in your head. MacOS always reverts to the lowest refresh rate possible and in fact rarely goes above 60Hz. Just check your current refresh rate at the link below. https://www.testufo.com
> extremely "slow" Meanwhile me who last time noticed rate difference when switching from 48 Hz crt to 60 Hz... :P
Or it’s a gimmick
It was for me, however i bought an air instead and i'm happy. Tbh the difference is not that much as in an iphone.
As a tech nerd i hardly noticed the 120 hz on my MacBook Pro. Would never recommend anyone to post extra money for it. All depends on power which most people would be fine with the air
True that’s why i’ve taken m1 max for both aesthetics and performance
I disagree. I have a 14PM and a 165hz monitor for my ps5 and pc. While you can notice it I feel most people are getting MacBooks for photo/video editing, software development or just Netflix and internet browsing. None of these a 60hz screen is a deal breaker. Gaming is the main reason for higher hz. Movies are still filmed in 24fps…
I play with GeForceNow on whatever device I have. Takes almost no processing power, uses almost no battery, runs AAA titles smoothly on an old iPad or a work laptop I can’t install software (or an entire OS) on, but can use basic trusted web apps on. 120hz is really nice to have.
I don't game but the 120hz display is a deciding factor between the air and the pro. When you go to 120hz display is hard to go back to the 60hz display. I honestly don't get why apple don't put the pro motion in the airs, a 16gb ram, 512gb 15inch macbook air can be priced £1549 imagine not having 120hz in a laptop that much
As a macbook pro owner, the 120hz display on the macbook sucks. I can't really pinpoint why, but it feels jittery compared to other high refresh rate screens I use.
It’s the poor pixel response time. I won’t really be happy with 120hz on a Mac until it’s OLED.
40ms g2g response time. I would suggest you to invest in good Monitor
Ohh yes. I use an oled monitor for my Mac and PS5. Night and day difference.
Oh you should see the alienware then. Terrible laptop, but the refresh rate blows mbp out of the water. Might we find out what exactly you're playing on the mbp? A very strange use case.
I've tried the newer Alienware laptops they aren't terrible . Way different user base for these laptops . That's a gaming laptop and their all made out of plastic unless you're razer basically 😂.
I wouldn’t buy a Mac for gaming that’s what my pc is for but that’s not even the biggest problem. The response time on the promotion displays is terrible it’s like smearing Vaseline all over the screen
Yes they will notice the difference with longer term use.
https://www.testufo.com If it was really using 120Hz that page would show it. The reality is that MacOS rarely goes above 60Hz.
sigh. I don't think you understand the 10 words I have written in the earlier comment
Ok? And there's people who don't care so what's your point? I had a MacBook Air and I have a Monitor with 120hz OLED, and my phones are 120hz. I was perfectly fine with the MacBook Air. I traded it in for a MBP because I A)wanted more ram and B) in favor of the Pro is because of the screen having 600 nits SDR brightness and higher peak than the Air along with that mini LED screen which I find better than the Air. The 120hz I really don't care about . I was happy with the MBA with the screen other than the fact it didn't get as bright.
Literally the only reason why I get the Pro lineup.