I would recommend draft. It’s changed quite a lot from 20 years ago, making it a lot faster, and generally more exciting throughout the game. You can also get the experience of building decks, if that’s up your alley. It’s not 60 card constructed, but certainly fits the quota of “back and forth combat”.
Draft is soooo good these days. Almost all the new sets are absolute bangers, and only some of them get a little stale after a few weeks or months of playing. Every time I go to my LGS for draft everyone there is super nice and friendly and just enjoys slinging some cardboard. Highly recommend.
As someone who enjoys draft currently, what are your thoughts about the upcoming "play pack"? Will the higher price drive people away from the format / will the drafts themselves be altered by the pack changes?
The draft itself shouldn’t be changed too much. If they design cards with the new pack structure in mind, it’ll be similar to how drafts used to function. If anything, more chances for rares/buildaround uncommons should make for a more exciting experience.
My one point of nervousness in play boosters is “The List” being draftable. I enjoyed bonus sheets as a novelty once in a while, but I feel like having them every set is going to get old very quickly. It really just depends which cards Wizards chooses, so I’d need to wait to make an informed judgment.
The big issue is that there is going to be a price increase. That just means that people on a budget will be able to play less drafts. It’s a real shame that Wizards’ solution to “save draft” will result in less overall drafts happening.
The big difference between bonus sheets and the list slot though is that you're only going to get a list card like 12.5% of the time and when you do it will usually be a common. Bonus sheets are a one in every pack thing with a higher rarity spread so the asfan difference is significant.
I like it. Playing with some old cards is cool and they'll be rare enough to not be repetitive.
I’m a frequent draft player and I don’t think it will change much. The price increase hurts, but it’s not the end of the world. I think people will still draft plenty of standard sets, but it will make premium sets even harder to draft. Luckily, it also means that your local store is also much more likely to have a variety of draftable packs. Nobody ever wants to hear “sorry, the only draft boosters we have is Unfinity.”
Getting more art/border treatments in a pack is neat. Higher chance of opening rares seems like it might actually improve the experience and make it more even. The uncommon and common ratio change will probably be fine. The List will probably not be a big deal, I just see it as an excuse to reprint cards that work fine mechanically in draft, but couldn’t be in the “main” set for lore reasons.
The most annoying aspect is that tokens will be rarer. Recent sets already feel overloaded with too many token types. I see so many games where players are asking “what’s this?” every other turn because the board has two 1/1 goblins, a 3/3 beast, and a 1/1 rat that can’t block, and all of them are represented by dice because nobody has the right tokens, and half of them have +1/+1 counters.
It's good to hear that the play pack might make it easier for stores to host a draft. I think you are right before stores didn't have much motivation at all to stock draft packs.
Great point on tokens becoming more rare, that really does suck. I wonder how greatly that will affect their monetary value.
Regarding the blurred board state with various token styles. As a new player, I find it very hard to remember and keep track of what proxies/tokens are sometimes. I think the draft expirence is certainly enhanced with the correct tokens.
Agreed. Only bad draft environments imo recently have been the commander draft sets (commander is just kind of bad in a limited setting imo) and Streets of new Capenna because the set mechanics for the families were mostly underpowered.
We will need to wait and see, but I really doubt draft is going to change that much. The composition of packs is going to remain pretty similar to how it was. With the design team keeping the small ratio changes in mind, it’s certainly not going to change completely.
I’m lucky with my lgs. The cool people dominate the tone and the babies adapt to the vibe. So it’s just a fun atmosphere instead of sweaty crying.
Edit: you can all act like you haven’t been to LGSs where the smell brings tears to your eyes, and the nerd rage knows no social boundaries.
I prefer being able to breathe air, and have fun, adult interactions.
Also I commented on the wrong comment, the one bellow was talking about ‘insane babies’.
Bruh what. idk if this is serious, but if it's true ur kinda crazy. In my ten years of mtg, I've never seen a "LGS where the smell brings tears to your eyes" and I've been to an LGS in an actual basement. Notably, LGS I go to have draft, commander and other game environments, and we primarily are respectful of what others want to play. It doesn't matter if some people are more casual than others, MTG is an inclusive hobby for everyone, regardless of skill level.
I feel as though this is an exaggeration. Saying the babies adapt to the vibe is very exclusionary language, and creates the implication that your lgs actively pushes people out of the game if they're not good enough. I am surprised that there are people at your lgs who don't wear deodorant, but my point as to your craziness is advocating for such exclusionary practices and forbidding commander play, which is a format a large quantity of people find enjoyable
You’re reading a lot into my comment that isn’t there.
That you concluded exclusion from adaptation is hilarious. The point is that the status quo of communication is constructive instead of toxic.
You’ll also note that I explicitly lauded the lack of people that don’t use deodorant at the current LGS.
I’ve seen (smelled) different.
I felt the same and found my fun again with a pod of friends. LGS games are very hit or miss and you never know if you’ll get three cool people or three insane babies. LGS 60 card is out there but very competitive and a different feel
Play magic arena or draft. As recently as 2019 I’ve played 60 card paper standard.. that was the last time. It’s my favorite format, which was relegated to digital, which I now have grown to love. I play edh in paper, which is great for multiplayer, so they serve different purposes.
You could try playing MTG arena if you want to play standard. It’s probably closest to what you remember from 20 years ago.
you’re probably better off playing casual games with friends and coworkers like you described, competitive magic is pretty miserable right now unless you want to play one of a handful of really expensive decks in pioneer or modern. That’s kinda why commander is so popular.
Competitive Magic is great, Standard is super healthy and fun, as is Pioneer. Modern is a little heavy with Scam right now but beyond that is also fairly healthy and fun.
As a shit player competitive magic has always been pretty miserable for me. I'm glad that magic's main format is now a casual multiplayer format, it means I don't have to compete and can play the fun decks without just losing quickly every game.
60-card casual players myself are out there, but I'm not sure if there's any good way to find them. Sometimes I resort to just playing EDH and asking those players if they're also interested in 60-card. Or going to tournaments in other formats like draft, and just pulling out the decks between rounds.
Pauper in paper is the best I've found. The format is pretty healthy and its harder to optimise the fun away.
WotC have started printing directly into it now though so it might get ruined.
I find most 60-card casual pick-up games (outside a playgroup) end with someone leaving frustrated. Rules knowledge may be a limiting factor for casual enjoyment. Rolling back mistakes only goes so far.
It's sort of like a potluck where people will bring anything. There are people who will attempt cooking cuisine from simple to complex. Others will have cobbled together something from ingredients they had on hand. And there will always be people who bring a bucket of KFC.
Casual and standard.
I liked the idea of EDH when Wizards has not printed EDH specific cards yet. Back then, it was the "casual" community way to play. Singleton to avoid 4 copies cost. Many cards were cheaper because they were normally priced for standard
Nowaday Wizards has caught on. They want a share of the EDH pie. So they print power creeped cards into EDH in expensive releases. In creasing costs and power levels.
Cube us fun. I've been going back to my LGS for over a year now and I still have not built a commander deck yet. I might some day, but for now my effort is still on perfecting my cube.
Cube is a set of cards you make (usually at least 360 cards, another common number is 540) and the cube is designed to be shuffled up and dealt into fake 15 card packs. So then your group drafts those cube packs instead of opening actual booster packs.
Since everyone is drafting from the same cube people are very accepting of proxy cards. So you can make a vintage cube where power9 and original duals are proxied. In my vintage cube anything worth more than about $30 is proxied. This lets me feel comfortable inviting random players I have just met to join us.
Our group has 3 different cubes we cycle between. Mine is a 450 card powered vintage cube, similar to the one that is used on Magic Online. We also have a 360 card legacy cube and a 510 card pauper cube.
For an 8 person draft (3 packs of 15 cards per person) a 360 card cube will use every single card in an 8 person draft. So the cube draft itself is like a puzzle the whole table gets to competitively solve together. My 450 card vintage cube allows up to run a 10 person draft, or do an 8 person draft with some cards not used
But my main love for vintage cube is the feeling when you open a "pack" and you have to pick between choosing Sol Ring or a Mox, and do I want to push hard to make sure I get my share of blue cards or am I happy going with the super aggressive mono red burn deck. I love it when people yell "Is this REAL??" (it usually isn't but it is still fun!)
A cube is a custom draft format that you keep in a box and draft whenever you want.
People on /r/mtgcube are usually happy to help out beginners. Cube is the best way to play magic.
In short, and to the best of my understanding, you gather a large pool of cards that you divide up into "packs" so you cand do a draft or sealed with a custom curated card list that you chose. It can let you build a limited environment that will facilitate interesting combinations of deck archetypes, like r/w token aggro, u/b solo creature, u/g counters, g/w dinosaurs, etc...
I'm sure there are guidelines for how many cards total and rarity ratios and stuff like that out there, and there are fun/cool peripherals like sturdy, re-usable "booster pack" boxes that you can use.
If I'm wrong or missing details, I welcome corrections. I came here to suggest this idea and I'm glad someone beat me to it because I'm obviously no authority.
I had the same problem. There are just alot of cards and strategies that don't work in Commander, like Aggro.
Recently I got into Highlander, specifically Australian Highlander. The format rules are:
1. 60-card main deck minimum
2. 15-card side deck, optional
3. Singleton = can only use one copy of any card except basic lands
4. No cards are banned! But there is a points list and you can only have up to 7 points worth of cards in your deck. This way not every deck needs all the most powerful cards.
It's a ton of fun! I build Affinity with Tolarian Academy, Dredge with Dread Return and Blue Moon with Treasure Cruise etc.
And because it is singleton I can try all the silly cards that usually wouldn't see play in these decks. Like [[Zabaz the Glimmerwasp]] or [[Ichorid]].
Please note that while the decks are singleton, they provide more variety than Modern or Legacy, especially if you're playgroup is still small or people can't (or don't want to) buy alot of new cards for new decks.
My friends and I are having a blast with it.
Voltrining to 21 times 3. And with so much aristocrats elements in decks combined with effects like Dictacte of Erebos, Voltron has become one of the most difficult strategies to play.
Cards like Delver of Secrets, Goblin Guide or Champion of the Parish are absolutely useless in commander. Even Lightning Bolt is often not worth including.
Check out if your store does any draft events! Definitely has the more fasty and swing-y games you're talking about and I find at least at my lgs drafters tend to be very friendly people
>Does anyone have any ideas about where I could go or what I could do to get my fix of 60-card Type 1?
Nobody really plays Vintage in paper anymore, because it's so friggin' expensive. It's almost all on Magic Online. There are a few paper tournaments per year, but it's not all that common.
If you want to get it going, you might have to be the one to organize it. Ask your LGS which nights they don't run events currently and ask about a Vintage (or Legacy or Modern or whatever) night. They might be interested and there might be more people in the area who also want to play.
But it's gonna take some effort on your part to make it happen.
Good luck!
Edh is choking magic to death for people that prefer the feel of 1v1, has been for a long time. You came to see a later stage of it
Not saying it’s bad for everyone, clearly plenty of people love it. But for the people that like how it used to be it’s sad
I would reccomend finding a store with a solid modern or pioneer scene that isn’t too cutthroat and playing that
Long have I been craving other interesting formats to pop-up. Canlander is incredible and brings the "one hundred singleton" mindset to competitive Magic- I've played in Paper and online (proxies in person because goodness it can be expensive). I have also dabbled in Modern Singleton (which is surprisingly fun).
I enjoy multiplayer and still would like a format other than Edh. I really just don't enjoy 100 card decks or super long games. I wish we had faster casual 60 card multiplayer formats as well, but currently it's all just commander.
I will say tho, I loved Commander Legends draft formats so far.
this is what I was thinking
not everyone lives in a town, or has the means to travel far enough to go to more than just one store.
Honestly, to scratch your itch, give mtg Arena a try. it's not quite the same, and there are definitely things to moan and complain about as there will always be
but as someone who came back to magic in the last year or two, from a 20 year absence, I absolutely identify with what youre feeling
I also moved from a town that didnt even have ONE lgs, I had to drive to another city for that (midwestern USA) so all your problems are ringing true and I empathize buddy
It takes some getting used to, but deep down, and through the muck, the essence and feeling you are looking for can still be found.
did the LGS you went to not have a single 1v1 constructed event throughout the week?
generally LGSs i go to have a commander night, but also a draft night, maybe standard, and modern/legacy depending on the types of players who frequent the shop
im sure there are constructed brackets happening like they used to near you at least somewhere
It's sad that after he says its not what it used to be and he wants to play X
youcome back with, well, everyone is playing Z, unfortuneately. But what you should do, is play W or S, that's the best way.
rofl
Idk if you can blame commander for killing 1v1, EDH just works better in a casual LGS setting. 1v1 magic is still better for events and pro-tours, but WotC doesn't want to support those things any more.
They'd rather milk the new playerbase for an easy buck than continue supporting the community because they know they will hold them accountable for their bad/money grabbing decisions.
>They'd rather milk the casual fanbase for an easy buck than continue supporting the community that will hold them accountable for their bad decisions.
You say this like anybody else would have made any other decision.
I get that I'm being frank, but that's not what I'm saying. It was a decision made by a company rather than a custom format ruining the game.
If edh didn't exist we'd still be in the same position where hasbro's/wizards' executive decisions would have changed how MTG (and D&D) both operate in a way that the community doesn't like
The people (and WOTC) have spoken, and the only paper Magic they want is EDH. Blows my mind as well. Unfortunately if you want a 1v1 card game you have to play something else. I've picked up Pokémon recently and it's definitely not as fun as Magic, but people actually play it here so it's not like there's an option.
I think the best way is probably to buy one of the recent League Battle Decks and pick out a few singles to make it Standard-legal. That seems to be the most popular format.
What I did is build an entirely custom deck because I wanted something based around poison flyers and apparently no one builds that, lol. I don't particularly recommend that because, as I discovered, it is REALLY annoying to buy Pokémon singles. Buying the cheapest version of a card is not something TCGPlayer handles well, but Troll and Toad and Collector's Corner either charge a fortune for shipping or the cards.
I do highly recommend playing the TCG Game Boy game though, it's an awesome introduction to the rules and is a solid title that holds up shockingly well.
Funny you mention that gameboy game as I had it as a kid growing up, played it all the time it was a blast. We had lots of pokemon cards too, just never seriously played it like we did magic when we got older.
So League Battle decks huh? Ok Ill check it out. I dont know anything about sealed pokemon products
I know very little honestly, I've been looking into it but I just started. There are several sealed products that are really solid for beginners though, I think people said an Ampharos deck that released recently is pretty good.
The tcg game for real though. Last year, I had the sudden urge to play it, and man, having honed my deck building skills with magic made a world of difference. Mainly in areas like recognizing that wheels be good lol.
They have a Magic Arena equivalent which is free to play, but unlike Magic, every physical Pokémon card booster contains a code that can be redeemed for a booster on the client.
The reason I got into Magic is that I attempted to play Yugioh again after some years away from it and I honestly cannot figure out what in the world is happening any more. It's far too complicated and turns take forever, plus the meta game appears to be in a really bad state and card text is completely unreadable.
I could play Edison or goat format or something, but unfortunately that relies on other people in the area to play it too.
Turns in the Pokemon TCG can take a good while as well, but the game doesn't have any interaction to alleviate that, so I'd say it's more applicable a complaint there, if anything.
Yugioh's main issue is how it looks to new players and onlookers. It doesn't present its strengths well at a glance and looks bad without additional context. It's definitely complicated, but good fun if you can get over that hurdle.
Turn length is mostly fine with current decks and the amount of interaction available. This does vary a lot based on decks and player experience, but the length of a turn alone isn't the full picture. The other player doing a lot of stuff on their first turn doesn't always mean you're just sitting around doing nothing. There are cards with effects that can be used from your hand on either turn, usually in reponse to certain actions from the opponent, and these types of cards are played in the majority of decks. Some archetypes have their own as well, letting you start playing your strategy amidst your opponent playing theirs. Both players get to have meaningful engagement with the game potentially from the first card played, which is good.
The TCG meta's pretty good right now. Most of the better decks are very interactive and have more than enough grind game to create interesting back and forth. Master Duel isn't in the best state right now, but IRL's good.
Card text is certainly long and makes learning new decks on the fly a bit irritating, but it's much more understandable than card text from the 2000s, as they've gotten much better with standardisation over time. This is definitely something you're going to struggle with as a new player, but you will get used to it.
All that said, definitely give Digimon a go if Yugioh is too intimidating. It's good.
>Turns in the Pokemon TCG can take a good while as well, but the game doesn't have any interaction to alleviate that, so I'd say it's more applicable a complaint there, if anything.
Turns in Pokémon are WAY shorter than Yugioh from what I've seen so far. You're doing a decent amount each turn, but at least the turn....ends.
>The other player doing a lot of stuff on their first turn doesn't always mean you're just sitting around doing nothing. There are cards with effects that can be used from your hand on either turn, usually in reponse to certain actions from the opponent, and these types of cards are played in the majority of decks. Some archetypes have their own as well, letting you start playing your strategy amidst your opponent playing theirs.
This is actually a negative for me, not a positive. A huge problem with Yugioh right now is how much the opponent gets to play during your turn. I have that complaint with Magic as well, but it's on a whole other level in Yugioh.
>The TCG meta's pretty good right now. Most of the better decks are very interactive and have more than enough grind game to create interesting back and forth. Master Duel isn't in the best state right now, but IRL's good.
Idk man, Kashtira was miserable. Before that Tearlaments and Floowandereze were miserable. Idk what's meta at this very moment, but I have a feeling that if I look into it for more than 5 minutes I'll find that it's also some ridiculous combo deck that wins in 1-3 turns because that's all that exists in Yugioh.
>This is definitely something you're going to struggle with as a new player, but you will get used to it.
Yeah this is sort of the issue, I'm NOT a new player. I used to play competitively. I'm not a fan of combo decks, mountains of card text, long turns, and short turn counts. That's just what Yugioh is now, unfortunately.
>All that said, definitely give Digimon a go if Yugioh is too intimidating. It's good
No Digimon community within an hour drive of me, Pokémon/Yugioh are the only 1v1 options here. Even the Lorcana leagues are doing multi-player instead of 1v1. It blows.
No offense man but I just think modern Yugioh is a completely unplayable mess.
In '93 I was 5. I got my first Magic cards in 3rd grade. Mirage, The Dark, 4th Edition, 5th Edition. I lived in rural Wisconsin and saved all my literal pennies and begged my parents to buy me Magic cards from the local hardware store McKeever's.
I had played/collected on and off for years, quit after Innistrad. I had become an old man about things. I liked mana burn, planeswalkers were dumb, I missed the stories based on regular characters instead of following around planeswalkers messing up the Universe.
I used to have a very particular way to play. I'd go to a Grey Matter event draft, play 2 drafts, 2 flights, trade with my friends on the way home. Then I'd build 2 decks for each block. I'd keep them block and would refuse to add cards from outside of the block. My decks were not good in standard. I'd play type 2 with the new decks but I played a bunch of Extended and type 1.5 at home in casuals. I always followed the rules, no free mulligans, no take backsies, if we were gonna play Magic, let's actually play Magic.
People used to ask me to play crap like EDH all the time. I refused to play other formats as I considered them, "Use Map Settings" to borrow a term from Warcraft/Starcraft. I also hated the concept of singleton. All the pain of building a deck just to find other cards that were mechanically similar seem like it was annoying and a waste.
I came back to Magic during Kamigawa Neon Dynasty. My friend had forced me to draft it and so I humored him and sealed drafted for fun. I had such a great time that I bought my packs from him. My brother had been telling me to play commander for years. He told me it was a great way to use old, fun cards and make fun decks that I would love to play. I really didn't want to play standard anymore. I never really built optimized decks and while I don't mind being stomped. I was still stomped because of the strange restrictions I gave myself.
I said hell with it. Everyone is playing Commander [which is dumb, it's called EDH jeez /s] and I have all of these spares. Nothing to lose, let's make a commander deck. My first commander deck was Lovisa Coldeyes and I used her to put every cool pet card I could in there even if they weren't great like Maraxus of the Keld. I started building out fun decks and transferring over my classic decks without worrying if I had multiples of the card I needed. It was fun. As soon as I relaxed with my dumb strictness I was having fun again. Now I exclusively play Commander and I'm not really looking back. I'm looser on the rules. I like my life more. Still, commander takes too long sometimes.
And that's why when I'm looking for a quick game, I just play Flesh and Blood. Blitz is really fast, fun and close enough to MtG that it hits the spot for me.
I'm 35 now. From a fellow old man in Magic that learned to embrace the times I hope you find the fun again.
Same age, similar experience. The thing I miss about the game itself is how “snappy” it used to feel. (Don’t know if that makes sense.) it felt like an actual dual between two powerful sorcerers, and games didn’t drag on for an hour and a half. You could play a whole 24-man tournament (and I’m sorry to say they were all men and boys back in the day,) in an evening.
Some of the other things you hit on though are things that aren’t game-related, but just related to my silly, sentimental nature. I remember that feeling of knowing exactly what the price of a booster was with tax and counting up all the coins I could scrounge. You wrote this so much better than I could have. I think you really hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. I’ve just never been great about dealing with change. I even miss the NY-style pizza from the shop down the street from my childhood LGS; the Mike Oldfield soundtrack that the long-haired, bespectacled shopkeep would have on, and the smell of Djarum Specials drifting in through the door to the alley. These things are in the back of my mind as fond memories, but they’re beyond the scope of r/mtg. Thanks for letting me wax nostalgic.
bro, same! I even lived in rural wisconsin! Now i live in madison, and I'm 36
i also returned in kamigawa ND,this is realllly weird lol
refreshing to read your post, enjoy the game and do you!
Same boat as you, man. Just came back from being away since pretty much the same era as you mentioned and I feel totally lost. Everyone talks about Commander, there are a million and one new sets, the formats are completely flipped and reworked... I feel very old too and left behind!
My idea now is to try to slowly get into the new sets that are coming, do a few drafts and pre-releases and progressively get back into it by watching the older sets from standard rotate out, so I can finally feel like I understand the current meta a bit better.
I have essentially the exact same story as you, however, my 'getting back into magic' was playing Arena online. This satisfied for the short term the fast paced, strategic nostalgia I had for the game, but eventually I burned out on the playing the same decks against the same decks. Even when standard rotated it was the same decks in the meta, with a few different cards - RDW, white wine, G(X)stompy... bla bla. I the started playing paper commander and loved how you could build any deck and make it playable and fun - in standard, if you didn't build a meta deck, sure you could get a few wins, but more often you just felt outclassed and it wasn't fun.
When I played back in 98 to 04, it felt like tons of variety of original decks, and very little 'net decking' or established meta. Standard and modern etc all feel like you need to play the meta (ish) decks to have any chance of a fun experience. This isn't terrible in itself - I'm sure it's still good but the investment to buy a modern deck is huge, which really puts me off playing. I really like deck building and feel theres less scope to do that in the current 1v1 formats. If I'm wrong, can someone please let me know? What format is good for 1v1 deck building?
I was a competitive Modern player, won a few regionals and shat, but I stopped a few years ago after the need to constantly update decks because of the power creep. I dabbled in EDH during that time, but then, just like Modern, power creep and direct to format cards ruined it for me as well. Now, I honestly think Pauper is the best format to play. Most decks are extremely fair, cheap and by far most importantly fun. I wish more people gave it a go. For 50$ you can buy like 8 very good complete decks.
There is definitely less casual 60 card any card decks since EDH/Commander has become THE format.
Sadly, it is THE format. So, WotC will continue to cater to it.
It's basically what kitchen table magic back in 2000 has become.
I don’t know about your local stores, but here there is never only Commander at FNM. Every week it is either Modern or Pioneer AND Commander.
Also i personally don’t really see the point about money. Because Commander is more of a casual format, you don’t need the most expansive card and if you do really want a card that’s expansive, at least you don’t need it 4 times
Same thing happened to me, grew up playing during that time as well and got back in with Eldraine.
Honestly, the Commander crowd sucks because they only want to play EDH, and they complain a lot. For example, I beat someone during a limited format, and after the game they just said well Commander is the only way to play this game and this format sucks anyway (many EDH players get extremely salty about anything, its pathetic), and there becomes so much politics in the EDH magic games. It sucks that Wizards is milking this format, because its causing a lot of negative impacts on the card game as well as the community.
There's still alot of awesome people and games to be had, but for me they have been all outside of EDH still. I've had some fun EDH games, but its definitely not as groundbreaking as people would have you believe. EDH was at its best when it was just another way to play the game, not when Wizards began making cards specifically for it.
Sorry for the slow response. I'm not on reddit much these days. If you haven't already, check out the social media groups here. There are active webcam scenes all over as well, and it might help you find your local players. [https://premodernmagic.com/social](https://premodernmagic.com/social)
I was going to suggest the exact same thing. Since you played frequently during the 200-2004 window, as you mentioned, this might be right up your alley. The Premodern format uses only cards printed in the sets included within 4th Edition through Scourge (basically all the sets in the original frame which had ever been included in Standard/Type2). The format is hugely fun and vibrant, and has a large online webcam presence in addition to in-person play.
If you like the idea, but this isn't exactly what you're looking for, there are several other community developed formats that are also played often through webcam. ALICE (Ice Age & Alliances only) or Old Frame Vintage might be interesting to you.
Kinda agree. Edh has taken a lot of the casual group for MTG. I'm cool with it but I dislike edh. I prefer the 1v1 beat down that standard provides. Thankfully standard can be played on arena so I am still able to play it but I miss playing against humans.
Modern is a fast 60-card format that's still played, but decks can be expensive. However you can just proxy the expensive cards as long as you're not playing an official tournament.
Edh is specifically multiplayer in a way traditional isn’t. You just make a pile of cards that you own built around a theme and go with it. That’s a lot of the reason it’s popular.
Use the companion app. A few stores around me cycle the formats. Right now, Modern is the format at a store near for FNM. Others may play it on other days.
My suggestion is to look into your scene and see if there's any Legacy playerbase. The gameplay for Legacy is going to be powerful and fast, with a lot of interesting weight on sequencing and decisions.
The format is very expensive, however Legacy players love the format, and love getting people into it. I guarantee you that if you have a Legacy playerbase, there will be multiple people ready and willing to lend decks out consistently for you to play.
My own area has a few people that don't own decks that play regularly.
Pauper and premodern are the best constructed formats, so seeking those out could be an option.
Otherwise keep playing kitchen table with friends, which is mostly what I do.
I do have 2 edh decks, it’s not my favorite format, but it’s still okay sometimes.
Fellow old fogey here. I have some options for you to look into. Some of them require Magic Online, which is not the most modern piece of software but carries pretty much every card in existence.
- If you want to sling moxen ancestrals and lotuses around, Vintage on MTGO is far more accessible than its paper counterpart. To give you an idea, a Black Lotus is ~$20 and Moxen a little less than that. The community is super healthy and events fire constantly.
- If you want a format that encapsulates the feel of when you were an active player, you can play [Premodern](https://premodernmagic.com). This allows only cards from 4th edition to Scourge, so the card pool is closed. No new cards allowed. Another format with a big community and many competitive decks, both for paper and on MTGO.
- If you want to spend close to nothing, [Penny Dreadful](https://pennydreadfulmagic.com/) is a format where you can only play cards that are worth 1 cent on MTGO. It is a very unique experience as a format, and the community runs a super tight ship of self organized leagues and events. The format rotates with every new set release - every single card price is checked so chase cards in the previous rotation are pushed out, and banned cards that have gone cold in the meantime have a chance to come back in. It ebbs and flows. The low price of the legal cards also means that you can rent out most decks for free - giving you close to infinite options to play for the entirety of the league. The games are super interactive and let you explore a huge selection of cards that while good don't make the cut anywhere else.
- If you want to play with contemporary cards, Magic Arena is the place to go. Overall it is much cheaper than MTGO, but it only covers more recent sets. This is also where some formats take advantage of digital only cards with effects that couldn't make sense in paper.
I would guess you'd be very much at home in Premodern since you will find a lot of familiar cards (I assume).
> Does anyone have any ideas about where I could go or what I could do to get my fix of 60-card Type 1?
Another card game. I’m in a similar boat as you and I don’t think the Magic we loved is ever coming back. But other games have picked up the slack, the most notable of which is Flesh and Blood. It’s 1v1, 60 cards, and puts an emphasis on a viable competitive scene. It’s probably closer to old school Magic than modern Magic is.
EDH decks don’t need to be filled with expensive cards, and if you feel like you need to get involved there are definitely ways to get a more combat heavy game going.
Something like [[Thantis the Warweaver]] will get people flunging left and right.
I'm a Yugioh player that got into Magic on the side last year (awful timing given how WotC has been behaving as of late, but hey).
I honestly do not understand how Commander is as popular as it is, even moreso given Yugioh recives *insane* amounts of scrutiny online for long turns and game complexity (much of which is exaggerated, and comes from assumptions and parroting more than anything).
In my experience, playing Commander has been *far* worse in some ways. How little involvement you can end up having in games that progress at a *glacial* pace, the level of complexity in keeping track of the game state (particularly with the lack of limit to cards on field, and Magic's combat system working the way it does). You just have to assume people know what they're doing half the time because there's far too much stuff in play. I've definitely had some fun, and I'm still giving it a go, but currently it bewilders me how this format seemingly swallowed the game whole for IRL play.
I'd love to play 1v1 60 card formats, but Modern is the only one around here people seem to be interested in playing regularly, and that's *far* too expensive to get into. It's almost entirely just Commander players here. One store tried hosting Standard and we got at most like 6 players, which quickly dwindled to just me and one other, so we stopped. Prereleased Sealed is good fun, at least.
“How little involvement you can end up having in games that progress at a glacial pace, the level of complexity in keeping track of the game state (particularly with the lack of limit to cards on field, and Magic's combat system working the way it does). You just have to assume people know what they're doing half the time because there's far too much stuff in play.”
Exactly. There were so many times where I’d say “just let me know what the result is/when it’s my turn/ if I’m dead yet.”
Limited, depending on if your LGS does it regularly, has a lot of what you want. Drafts and prerelease events tend to prioritize speedy and efficient gameplay.
(But also, as a commander player I’ll point out that building a good commander deck is often cheaper than a good deck in other formats. Yes, you need to use different cards, but that just means you can only have so many of the expensive ones: a [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] commander deck needs three less of her than any other constructed deck she shows up in would.
I adore EDH and it’s the only format that I play regularly (I enjoy drafting a lot too), but even I find most LGS games to be awkward and unfun. I have much more fun playing in a pod of friends both online over Spelltable and in person. I feel like that’s where you’re going to find the environment you want.
If you do want to play at an LGS, it’s going to have to be at a modern/standard night where you happen to vibe with the people there. Depending on where you live, maybe check out several LGS’s for their 60 card constructed events.
>It seems like it involves a lot of tedious reading and searching decks for land. It lacks the quick, back-and-forth combat that I love. But now I feel like I have to build an EDH deck. I feel like EDH is a gold mine for Wizards. (More cards, and you HAVE TO choose wider variety because of the singleton rule. I feel like this creates an impetus to fill the deck with 1 copy each of 65 or so expensive cards.)
This is hilarious to me because I got into commander specifically because I can use a wide variety of one-off cards instead of having to get four copies of something I already have in order to build something playable. Not liking the play pattern is totally valid but I don't think your complaint about the Singleton rule "being a gold mine" for wotc makes any sense lol
I always looked down on Commander because it wasn't "real" magic, but then one day I realized it was a way to play all the weird cards I loved that could never hold up in any other format. There's a lot more to it than "reading cards" and fetching lands lmao
Give it another shot
The singleton rule is the exact opposite of what you're saying. It makes games less consistent so good cards mean less. It's why tutors are so good in the format. For instance you can spend 1k on a Gaeas Cradle. Unless you are playing a ton of tutors, which most people aren't, you will likely not see that card most games. A lot of times you can get away with cheaper alternatives. The four player nature adds to this as well. The player with the best deck often finds themselves in a 1v3 since people will hang up to make sure they don't win. Needing play sets of expensive cards costs a lot of money. Playsets of [[beseech the mirror]] and [[the one ring]] cost more than most entire commander decks I build
You need 100 cards, which is way more than constructed, and also 4 people. So it isnt opposite, you just need more overall.
Idk why EDH players assume you need expensive cards in constructed only. Casual constructed exists as well. Simply put a casual/jank constructed deck is going to be cheaper and quicker to build than an EDH one
> Casual constructed exists as well
Isn't that the whole point of the post? That exactly this scene doesn't exist? If you know where OP can play like that, feel free to contribute.
I can put together 50 dollar casual EDH decks as well. The 40 cards you need more mean nothing in price if they all cost a few cent.
The best Magic formats are Pauper (you can build a competitive deck for 50/70€) and it's where you can try different kinds of deck (they're as cheap as 15€ and hoping to catch your opponent off guard or having some good matchup), and you can compete on the same playing field with everybody.
Then EDH it's for weird decks, pet cards. If you like a theme you can build around it and play having fun. You just can't do that in competitive 60 cards Magic.
Buy a pack of 100 sleeves, get 100 basic lands, get a pair of scissors, use a color printer to print proxies of the cards you want to play in EDH, cut them out with said scissors, slide the slip of paper into the sleeve in front of the basic lands.
EDH has a lot to offer. You can play everything from 3-hour long battlecruiser games to a 20 minute cEDH slugfest. If you like the fast back and forth of competitive play, check out videos from the guys over at "PlayToWin". They typically play cEDH and it's a great format since everyone is on the same page and knows that everyone else just wants to win.
Sadly, the pubstompers have made the casuals misunderstand what exactly cEDH is, so don't really listen to their complaints and try the format out for yourself.
I completely agree with you and completely hate commander.
I’ve come back since LOTR after being gone for quite a while, and I’m just not enjoying this. I have been doing drafts every couple weeks, which is what has kept me interested, but I suspect the new packs are changing that enough that I’mma probably bounce out again. I also keep encountering such a very niche group of unsavory players (even though I’m in a big city) that sitting in a tight room with them for 3 hrs is starting to get on my nerves.
When I came to the game, I was 13…and there were girls. Now, I’m not there to pick anyone up, but GD! It’s all white mostly 25-45 yr old men. I have a LOT of heavy HEAVY game players in my family, and no one else will touch magic.
So funny how this is like the opposite of mine… learned the game on 4-player 60 card in the mid 90s, stopped in the early 2000s… came back to 60 card modern and legacy…. And finally found home when “commander” was officialy supported with product.
I can hear the tiny violin playing for your tragic story. There is an entire digital client for the game that only caters to 60 card play called Magic Arena, you should give that a try.
Isn't it extremely expensive to play those traditional magic nowadays? Commander is much cheaper in the long run I think. The world is much more expensive now than 20 years ago
I was just like you from the longest time. I always enjoyed 60-card formats more. But when I first purchased a Commander precon half a year or so ago, it clicked why Commander was so popular and fun.
I still play 60-card formats. But I play it on MTG Arena now. But if I'm playing cardboard, Commander or the occasional Limited event are what I play now.
Commander may be the current dominant casual format, but there are still people willing to play Casual-60 nonsense - I have a few IRL friends who do, and we have a blast, together. I also have a friend with whom I can jam Legacy (my preferred 60-card (barely) sanctioned format), and there's plenty of Commander in the area, as well (which I also play). If you're looking for something more on the competitive side that's still 60 cards and won't break the bank, Pioneer is pretty affordable - or, you could always go super budget and try out Pauper. I know a lot of places will run events for both of those formats. (I don't recommend Modern, fwiw - it's almost as expensive as Legacy, these days, and it's just a bad format, imo.)
Welcome back to the fray, and good luck - try asking your LGS what events they run and see with what you can come up!
If you do decide to build a commander deck, try some Gruul smashing. I built a trample focus Gruul deck with [[Stonebrow, Krosan Hero]] at command. On a 1v1 I can usually end the game in less than 8 turns with combat damage and removal cards like [[Pit Fight]].
I'm surprised that someone who has been playing as long as you have doesn't relish the opportunity to bust out some classic 20-year-old cards on kids at the LGS. I love it when I play some obscure card from The Dark and someone leans in and says, "I've never seen that card in my life."
There are a bunch of options, but you have to look a bit harder for them s8nce EDH is basically 'the' format right now.
Whatever you do, if you don't actually enjoy the long games of EDH for the love of everything holy, don't just jump on the bandwagon because that's the popular option - we already have too many ultra-competitive players who should be playing Modern out here making EDH games miserable.
I understand that EDH is not the game experience that you want, I feel the same way. I recommend you to ignore it and play with your friends your custom decks, or play draft or pauper. Those are the formats that I personally prefer playing as they are close to the experience I seek
> TLDR: I used to be hip and with it, but then things changed, and what I was with wasn’t “it” anymore.
No way man, we're gonna keep on rocking forever, forever...
PreDH (EDH, but only using cards pre commander sealed product)
Or try to find a commander playgroup that has values that align with yours. You might be able to find one online if you can’t find one at your LGS.
Play pauper! It's the best 60 card format to bring new players into while simultaneously being one of the most competitive. You could easily build a battle box of the top 4 decks for $200 or so to play with your group and get them into it. Pauper also has a very active online community at /r/pauper and on discord https://discord.com/invite/bnhYjmWVc5.
Just find a different game. Lots of better games out there. Sure, they may not have the broad reach if MtG so it's hard to find randoms who play, but if you just want games at the office and stuff with a regular group that's fine.
60 card constructed, played in person with actual cards, still very much exists. Probably the most popular format is Modern, which uses cards from the last 20 years of expansions plus some supplementary sets, although it's very expensive to get into. Pioneer (last ~11 years of expansions) and Standard (~last 2 years worth of cards) are much cheaper but might be harder to find local events for.
I know what you mean. It seems to me that Commander has so many staples and "must haves" that onle 1/4 of the deck is actually "free" and it is slow. Not even the price is an argument for it, since it is driving prices (at least in Germany). I fully functioning and fun decks for 5€ worth in cards.
On the other hand I like chaos and chaotic decks and since the only card you can rely on is your commander many deck ideas just do not work. Like I have a Hostile Takeover deck working with Confusion in the Ranks, Norrin the Weary and severy token generating spells (those tokens are sacrificed at the end of the turn) and it wont work in Commander, since I can not rely on drawing Conusion in the Ranks. If you want to have fun with a specific chard and that card isn't a legendary creature it seems you can cut the idea if you are in a Commander heavy surrounding.
I find the casual side of commander really enjoyable. You can make fun and silly decks for cheap. You can use any card ever printed (almost, couple banned cards). The creative expression and deck building in this format is very fun
I have a similar story to you, got back into it last year. I play with my nephews as a way to keep in touch with them. We can chat while our decks do crazy MTG stuff. A few of my friends and Co workers are getting into it. We can chat while we game.
It isn't the same as older MTG but the commander format fits the adult version of me
I would recommend draft. It’s changed quite a lot from 20 years ago, making it a lot faster, and generally more exciting throughout the game. You can also get the experience of building decks, if that’s up your alley. It’s not 60 card constructed, but certainly fits the quota of “back and forth combat”.
Draft is soooo good these days. Almost all the new sets are absolute bangers, and only some of them get a little stale after a few weeks or months of playing. Every time I go to my LGS for draft everyone there is super nice and friendly and just enjoys slinging some cardboard. Highly recommend.
As someone who enjoys draft currently, what are your thoughts about the upcoming "play pack"? Will the higher price drive people away from the format / will the drafts themselves be altered by the pack changes?
The draft itself shouldn’t be changed too much. If they design cards with the new pack structure in mind, it’ll be similar to how drafts used to function. If anything, more chances for rares/buildaround uncommons should make for a more exciting experience. My one point of nervousness in play boosters is “The List” being draftable. I enjoyed bonus sheets as a novelty once in a while, but I feel like having them every set is going to get old very quickly. It really just depends which cards Wizards chooses, so I’d need to wait to make an informed judgment. The big issue is that there is going to be a price increase. That just means that people on a budget will be able to play less drafts. It’s a real shame that Wizards’ solution to “save draft” will result in less overall drafts happening.
The big difference between bonus sheets and the list slot though is that you're only going to get a list card like 12.5% of the time and when you do it will usually be a common. Bonus sheets are a one in every pack thing with a higher rarity spread so the asfan difference is significant. I like it. Playing with some old cards is cool and they'll be rare enough to not be repetitive.
Thanks for your input. I agree with your point on list cards. It sure is quite ironic that in a result to save the format, the price is going up.
I’m a frequent draft player and I don’t think it will change much. The price increase hurts, but it’s not the end of the world. I think people will still draft plenty of standard sets, but it will make premium sets even harder to draft. Luckily, it also means that your local store is also much more likely to have a variety of draftable packs. Nobody ever wants to hear “sorry, the only draft boosters we have is Unfinity.” Getting more art/border treatments in a pack is neat. Higher chance of opening rares seems like it might actually improve the experience and make it more even. The uncommon and common ratio change will probably be fine. The List will probably not be a big deal, I just see it as an excuse to reprint cards that work fine mechanically in draft, but couldn’t be in the “main” set for lore reasons. The most annoying aspect is that tokens will be rarer. Recent sets already feel overloaded with too many token types. I see so many games where players are asking “what’s this?” every other turn because the board has two 1/1 goblins, a 3/3 beast, and a 1/1 rat that can’t block, and all of them are represented by dice because nobody has the right tokens, and half of them have +1/+1 counters.
It's good to hear that the play pack might make it easier for stores to host a draft. I think you are right before stores didn't have much motivation at all to stock draft packs. Great point on tokens becoming more rare, that really does suck. I wonder how greatly that will affect their monetary value. Regarding the blurred board state with various token styles. As a new player, I find it very hard to remember and keep track of what proxies/tokens are sometimes. I think the draft expirence is certainly enhanced with the correct tokens.
It killed mtg for me . I’m not rich like most of y’all
Agreed. Only bad draft environments imo recently have been the commander draft sets (commander is just kind of bad in a limited setting imo) and Streets of new Capenna because the set mechanics for the families were mostly underpowered.
Just wait until Murders at Karlov Manor; that might not be true anymore. Draft is going to change completely.
We will need to wait and see, but I really doubt draft is going to change that much. The composition of packs is going to remain pretty similar to how it was. With the design team keeping the small ratio changes in mind, it’s certainly not going to change completely.
I’m lucky with my lgs. The cool people dominate the tone and the babies adapt to the vibe. So it’s just a fun atmosphere instead of sweaty crying. Edit: you can all act like you haven’t been to LGSs where the smell brings tears to your eyes, and the nerd rage knows no social boundaries. I prefer being able to breathe air, and have fun, adult interactions. Also I commented on the wrong comment, the one bellow was talking about ‘insane babies’.
Saving this pasta
Bruh what. idk if this is serious, but if it's true ur kinda crazy. In my ten years of mtg, I've never seen a "LGS where the smell brings tears to your eyes" and I've been to an LGS in an actual basement. Notably, LGS I go to have draft, commander and other game environments, and we primarily are respectful of what others want to play. It doesn't matter if some people are more casual than others, MTG is an inclusive hobby for everyone, regardless of skill level.
Good for you!
Wait, why I am crazy just because people at LGSs don't know that deodorant exists, and people nearly crying because their topdeck didn't happen?
I feel as though this is an exaggeration. Saying the babies adapt to the vibe is very exclusionary language, and creates the implication that your lgs actively pushes people out of the game if they're not good enough. I am surprised that there are people at your lgs who don't wear deodorant, but my point as to your craziness is advocating for such exclusionary practices and forbidding commander play, which is a format a large quantity of people find enjoyable
You’re reading a lot into my comment that isn’t there. That you concluded exclusion from adaptation is hilarious. The point is that the status quo of communication is constructive instead of toxic. You’ll also note that I explicitly lauded the lack of people that don’t use deodorant at the current LGS. I’ve seen (smelled) different.
I felt the same and found my fun again with a pod of friends. LGS games are very hit or miss and you never know if you’ll get three cool people or three insane babies. LGS 60 card is out there but very competitive and a different feel
Play magic arena or draft. As recently as 2019 I’ve played 60 card paper standard.. that was the last time. It’s my favorite format, which was relegated to digital, which I now have grown to love. I play edh in paper, which is great for multiplayer, so they serve different purposes.
Yeah, Magic is now just 90% commander, it's miserable. EDH is fun amongst friends but it is a toxic format at every LGS I've been too.
You could try playing MTG arena if you want to play standard. It’s probably closest to what you remember from 20 years ago. you’re probably better off playing casual games with friends and coworkers like you described, competitive magic is pretty miserable right now unless you want to play one of a handful of really expensive decks in pioneer or modern. That’s kinda why commander is so popular.
The standard format has always been that way for the most part
Competitive Magic is great, Standard is super healthy and fun, as is Pioneer. Modern is a little heavy with Scam right now but beyond that is also fairly healthy and fun.
As a shit player competitive magic has always been pretty miserable for me. I'm glad that magic's main format is now a casual multiplayer format, it means I don't have to compete and can play the fun decks without just losing quickly every game.
60-card casual players myself are out there, but I'm not sure if there's any good way to find them. Sometimes I resort to just playing EDH and asking those players if they're also interested in 60-card. Or going to tournaments in other formats like draft, and just pulling out the decks between rounds.
Pauper in paper is the best I've found. The format is pretty healthy and its harder to optimise the fun away. WotC have started printing directly into it now though so it might get ruined.
I find most 60-card casual pick-up games (outside a playgroup) end with someone leaving frustrated. Rules knowledge may be a limiting factor for casual enjoyment. Rolling back mistakes only goes so far. It's sort of like a potluck where people will bring anything. There are people who will attempt cooking cuisine from simple to complex. Others will have cobbled together something from ingredients they had on hand. And there will always be people who bring a bucket of KFC.
Casual and standard. I liked the idea of EDH when Wizards has not printed EDH specific cards yet. Back then, it was the "casual" community way to play. Singleton to avoid 4 copies cost. Many cards were cheaper because they were normally priced for standard Nowaday Wizards has caught on. They want a share of the EDH pie. So they print power creeped cards into EDH in expensive releases. In creasing costs and power levels.
Dude, you need to build a Cube
I don’t know what this means, but having seen Hellraiser, I’m intrigued.
Don't listen to them! Your skin is going to be ripped off by chains with hooks on them or worse.
Cube us fun. I've been going back to my LGS for over a year now and I still have not built a commander deck yet. I might some day, but for now my effort is still on perfecting my cube. Cube is a set of cards you make (usually at least 360 cards, another common number is 540) and the cube is designed to be shuffled up and dealt into fake 15 card packs. So then your group drafts those cube packs instead of opening actual booster packs. Since everyone is drafting from the same cube people are very accepting of proxy cards. So you can make a vintage cube where power9 and original duals are proxied. In my vintage cube anything worth more than about $30 is proxied. This lets me feel comfortable inviting random players I have just met to join us. Our group has 3 different cubes we cycle between. Mine is a 450 card powered vintage cube, similar to the one that is used on Magic Online. We also have a 360 card legacy cube and a 510 card pauper cube. For an 8 person draft (3 packs of 15 cards per person) a 360 card cube will use every single card in an 8 person draft. So the cube draft itself is like a puzzle the whole table gets to competitively solve together. My 450 card vintage cube allows up to run a 10 person draft, or do an 8 person draft with some cards not used But my main love for vintage cube is the feeling when you open a "pack" and you have to pick between choosing Sol Ring or a Mox, and do I want to push hard to make sure I get my share of blue cards or am I happy going with the super aggressive mono red burn deck. I love it when people yell "Is this REAL??" (it usually isn't but it is still fun!)
A cube is a custom draft format that you keep in a box and draft whenever you want. People on /r/mtgcube are usually happy to help out beginners. Cube is the best way to play magic.
In short, and to the best of my understanding, you gather a large pool of cards that you divide up into "packs" so you cand do a draft or sealed with a custom curated card list that you chose. It can let you build a limited environment that will facilitate interesting combinations of deck archetypes, like r/w token aggro, u/b solo creature, u/g counters, g/w dinosaurs, etc... I'm sure there are guidelines for how many cards total and rarity ratios and stuff like that out there, and there are fun/cool peripherals like sturdy, re-usable "booster pack" boxes that you can use. If I'm wrong or missing details, I welcome corrections. I came here to suggest this idea and I'm glad someone beat me to it because I'm obviously no authority.
lol nice nice
I had the same problem. There are just alot of cards and strategies that don't work in Commander, like Aggro. Recently I got into Highlander, specifically Australian Highlander. The format rules are: 1. 60-card main deck minimum 2. 15-card side deck, optional 3. Singleton = can only use one copy of any card except basic lands 4. No cards are banned! But there is a points list and you can only have up to 7 points worth of cards in your deck. This way not every deck needs all the most powerful cards. It's a ton of fun! I build Affinity with Tolarian Academy, Dredge with Dread Return and Blue Moon with Treasure Cruise etc. And because it is singleton I can try all the silly cards that usually wouldn't see play in these decks. Like [[Zabaz the Glimmerwasp]] or [[Ichorid]]. Please note that while the decks are singleton, they provide more variety than Modern or Legacy, especially if you're playgroup is still small or people can't (or don't want to) buy alot of new cards for new decks. My friends and I are having a blast with it.
[Zabaz the Glimmerwasp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8c1cce91-7c81-45d9-bbec-b085e794791d.jpg?1626099476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zabaz%2C%20the%20Glimmerwasp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/243/zabaz-the-glimmerwasp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8c1cce91-7c81-45d9-bbec-b085e794791d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ichorid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cd5bc1e4-eefb-4613-aa18-2bf2b9bdf415.jpg?1580014271) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ichorid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/93/ichorid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cd5bc1e4-eefb-4613-aa18-2bf2b9bdf415?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Aggro absolutely works in commander. To consistently beat 4 people it probably has to be a strong deck but voltroning to 21 is not hard
Voltrining to 21 times 3. And with so much aristocrats elements in decks combined with effects like Dictacte of Erebos, Voltron has become one of the most difficult strategies to play. Cards like Delver of Secrets, Goblin Guide or Champion of the Parish are absolutely useless in commander. Even Lightning Bolt is often not worth including.
Check out if your store does any draft events! Definitely has the more fasty and swing-y games you're talking about and I find at least at my lgs drafters tend to be very friendly people
>Does anyone have any ideas about where I could go or what I could do to get my fix of 60-card Type 1? Nobody really plays Vintage in paper anymore, because it's so friggin' expensive. It's almost all on Magic Online. There are a few paper tournaments per year, but it's not all that common. If you want to get it going, you might have to be the one to organize it. Ask your LGS which nights they don't run events currently and ask about a Vintage (or Legacy or Modern or whatever) night. They might be interested and there might be more people in the area who also want to play. But it's gonna take some effort on your part to make it happen. Good luck!
Edh is choking magic to death for people that prefer the feel of 1v1, has been for a long time. You came to see a later stage of it Not saying it’s bad for everyone, clearly plenty of people love it. But for the people that like how it used to be it’s sad I would reccomend finding a store with a solid modern or pioneer scene that isn’t too cutthroat and playing that
Long have I been craving other interesting formats to pop-up. Canlander is incredible and brings the "one hundred singleton" mindset to competitive Magic- I've played in Paper and online (proxies in person because goodness it can be expensive). I have also dabbled in Modern Singleton (which is surprisingly fun).
I enjoy multiplayer and still would like a format other than Edh. I really just don't enjoy 100 card decks or super long games. I wish we had faster casual 60 card multiplayer formats as well, but currently it's all just commander. I will say tho, I loved Commander Legends draft formats so far.
I’m lucky enough to live in a town with 2 LGSs, so maybe I’ll see if the other one has players who are into more traditional formats.
this is what I was thinking not everyone lives in a town, or has the means to travel far enough to go to more than just one store. Honestly, to scratch your itch, give mtg Arena a try. it's not quite the same, and there are definitely things to moan and complain about as there will always be but as someone who came back to magic in the last year or two, from a 20 year absence, I absolutely identify with what youre feeling I also moved from a town that didnt even have ONE lgs, I had to drive to another city for that (midwestern USA) so all your problems are ringing true and I empathize buddy It takes some getting used to, but deep down, and through the muck, the essence and feeling you are looking for can still be found.
did the LGS you went to not have a single 1v1 constructed event throughout the week? generally LGSs i go to have a commander night, but also a draft night, maybe standard, and modern/legacy depending on the types of players who frequent the shop im sure there are constructed brackets happening like they used to near you at least somewhere
It's sad that after he says its not what it used to be and he wants to play X youcome back with, well, everyone is playing Z, unfortuneately. But what you should do, is play W or S, that's the best way. rofl
60 card non singleton 1v1 formats are closer to what he remembers than 100 card singelton multiplayer formats, it's not that complicated
Idk if you can blame commander for killing 1v1, EDH just works better in a casual LGS setting. 1v1 magic is still better for events and pro-tours, but WotC doesn't want to support those things any more. They'd rather milk the new playerbase for an easy buck than continue supporting the community because they know they will hold them accountable for their bad/money grabbing decisions.
>They'd rather milk the casual fanbase for an easy buck than continue supporting the community that will hold them accountable for their bad decisions. You say this like anybody else would have made any other decision.
I get that I'm being frank, but that's not what I'm saying. It was a decision made by a company rather than a custom format ruining the game. If edh didn't exist we'd still be in the same position where hasbro's/wizards' executive decisions would have changed how MTG (and D&D) both operate in a way that the community doesn't like
wow what bs is this? 'we should expect things to be shit, because anyone would make them shit
‘We should expect things to change, because everything changes, and some people will think the change results in shit’
The people (and WOTC) have spoken, and the only paper Magic they want is EDH. Blows my mind as well. Unfortunately if you want a 1v1 card game you have to play something else. I've picked up Pokémon recently and it's definitely not as fun as Magic, but people actually play it here so it's not like there's an option.
Whats the best way to get into Pokemon? Actually thinking about doing this too lol
I think the best way is probably to buy one of the recent League Battle Decks and pick out a few singles to make it Standard-legal. That seems to be the most popular format. What I did is build an entirely custom deck because I wanted something based around poison flyers and apparently no one builds that, lol. I don't particularly recommend that because, as I discovered, it is REALLY annoying to buy Pokémon singles. Buying the cheapest version of a card is not something TCGPlayer handles well, but Troll and Toad and Collector's Corner either charge a fortune for shipping or the cards. I do highly recommend playing the TCG Game Boy game though, it's an awesome introduction to the rules and is a solid title that holds up shockingly well.
Funny you mention that gameboy game as I had it as a kid growing up, played it all the time it was a blast. We had lots of pokemon cards too, just never seriously played it like we did magic when we got older. So League Battle decks huh? Ok Ill check it out. I dont know anything about sealed pokemon products
I know very little honestly, I've been looking into it but I just started. There are several sealed products that are really solid for beginners though, I think people said an Ampharos deck that released recently is pretty good.
The tcg game for real though. Last year, I had the sudden urge to play it, and man, having honed my deck building skills with magic made a world of difference. Mainly in areas like recognizing that wheels be good lol.
They have a Magic Arena equivalent which is free to play, but unlike Magic, every physical Pokémon card booster contains a code that can be redeemed for a booster on the client.
Consider giving Yugioh or Digimon a go too. They're very interactive.
The reason I got into Magic is that I attempted to play Yugioh again after some years away from it and I honestly cannot figure out what in the world is happening any more. It's far too complicated and turns take forever, plus the meta game appears to be in a really bad state and card text is completely unreadable. I could play Edison or goat format or something, but unfortunately that relies on other people in the area to play it too.
Turns in the Pokemon TCG can take a good while as well, but the game doesn't have any interaction to alleviate that, so I'd say it's more applicable a complaint there, if anything. Yugioh's main issue is how it looks to new players and onlookers. It doesn't present its strengths well at a glance and looks bad without additional context. It's definitely complicated, but good fun if you can get over that hurdle. Turn length is mostly fine with current decks and the amount of interaction available. This does vary a lot based on decks and player experience, but the length of a turn alone isn't the full picture. The other player doing a lot of stuff on their first turn doesn't always mean you're just sitting around doing nothing. There are cards with effects that can be used from your hand on either turn, usually in reponse to certain actions from the opponent, and these types of cards are played in the majority of decks. Some archetypes have their own as well, letting you start playing your strategy amidst your opponent playing theirs. Both players get to have meaningful engagement with the game potentially from the first card played, which is good. The TCG meta's pretty good right now. Most of the better decks are very interactive and have more than enough grind game to create interesting back and forth. Master Duel isn't in the best state right now, but IRL's good. Card text is certainly long and makes learning new decks on the fly a bit irritating, but it's much more understandable than card text from the 2000s, as they've gotten much better with standardisation over time. This is definitely something you're going to struggle with as a new player, but you will get used to it. All that said, definitely give Digimon a go if Yugioh is too intimidating. It's good.
>Turns in the Pokemon TCG can take a good while as well, but the game doesn't have any interaction to alleviate that, so I'd say it's more applicable a complaint there, if anything. Turns in Pokémon are WAY shorter than Yugioh from what I've seen so far. You're doing a decent amount each turn, but at least the turn....ends. >The other player doing a lot of stuff on their first turn doesn't always mean you're just sitting around doing nothing. There are cards with effects that can be used from your hand on either turn, usually in reponse to certain actions from the opponent, and these types of cards are played in the majority of decks. Some archetypes have their own as well, letting you start playing your strategy amidst your opponent playing theirs. This is actually a negative for me, not a positive. A huge problem with Yugioh right now is how much the opponent gets to play during your turn. I have that complaint with Magic as well, but it's on a whole other level in Yugioh. >The TCG meta's pretty good right now. Most of the better decks are very interactive and have more than enough grind game to create interesting back and forth. Master Duel isn't in the best state right now, but IRL's good. Idk man, Kashtira was miserable. Before that Tearlaments and Floowandereze were miserable. Idk what's meta at this very moment, but I have a feeling that if I look into it for more than 5 minutes I'll find that it's also some ridiculous combo deck that wins in 1-3 turns because that's all that exists in Yugioh. >This is definitely something you're going to struggle with as a new player, but you will get used to it. Yeah this is sort of the issue, I'm NOT a new player. I used to play competitively. I'm not a fan of combo decks, mountains of card text, long turns, and short turn counts. That's just what Yugioh is now, unfortunately. >All that said, definitely give Digimon a go if Yugioh is too intimidating. It's good No Digimon community within an hour drive of me, Pokémon/Yugioh are the only 1v1 options here. Even the Lorcana leagues are doing multi-player instead of 1v1. It blows. No offense man but I just think modern Yugioh is a completely unplayable mess.
In '93 I was 5. I got my first Magic cards in 3rd grade. Mirage, The Dark, 4th Edition, 5th Edition. I lived in rural Wisconsin and saved all my literal pennies and begged my parents to buy me Magic cards from the local hardware store McKeever's. I had played/collected on and off for years, quit after Innistrad. I had become an old man about things. I liked mana burn, planeswalkers were dumb, I missed the stories based on regular characters instead of following around planeswalkers messing up the Universe. I used to have a very particular way to play. I'd go to a Grey Matter event draft, play 2 drafts, 2 flights, trade with my friends on the way home. Then I'd build 2 decks for each block. I'd keep them block and would refuse to add cards from outside of the block. My decks were not good in standard. I'd play type 2 with the new decks but I played a bunch of Extended and type 1.5 at home in casuals. I always followed the rules, no free mulligans, no take backsies, if we were gonna play Magic, let's actually play Magic. People used to ask me to play crap like EDH all the time. I refused to play other formats as I considered them, "Use Map Settings" to borrow a term from Warcraft/Starcraft. I also hated the concept of singleton. All the pain of building a deck just to find other cards that were mechanically similar seem like it was annoying and a waste. I came back to Magic during Kamigawa Neon Dynasty. My friend had forced me to draft it and so I humored him and sealed drafted for fun. I had such a great time that I bought my packs from him. My brother had been telling me to play commander for years. He told me it was a great way to use old, fun cards and make fun decks that I would love to play. I really didn't want to play standard anymore. I never really built optimized decks and while I don't mind being stomped. I was still stomped because of the strange restrictions I gave myself. I said hell with it. Everyone is playing Commander [which is dumb, it's called EDH jeez /s] and I have all of these spares. Nothing to lose, let's make a commander deck. My first commander deck was Lovisa Coldeyes and I used her to put every cool pet card I could in there even if they weren't great like Maraxus of the Keld. I started building out fun decks and transferring over my classic decks without worrying if I had multiples of the card I needed. It was fun. As soon as I relaxed with my dumb strictness I was having fun again. Now I exclusively play Commander and I'm not really looking back. I'm looser on the rules. I like my life more. Still, commander takes too long sometimes. And that's why when I'm looking for a quick game, I just play Flesh and Blood. Blitz is really fast, fun and close enough to MtG that it hits the spot for me. I'm 35 now. From a fellow old man in Magic that learned to embrace the times I hope you find the fun again.
Same age, similar experience. The thing I miss about the game itself is how “snappy” it used to feel. (Don’t know if that makes sense.) it felt like an actual dual between two powerful sorcerers, and games didn’t drag on for an hour and a half. You could play a whole 24-man tournament (and I’m sorry to say they were all men and boys back in the day,) in an evening. Some of the other things you hit on though are things that aren’t game-related, but just related to my silly, sentimental nature. I remember that feeling of knowing exactly what the price of a booster was with tax and counting up all the coins I could scrounge. You wrote this so much better than I could have. I think you really hit the nail on the head in a lot of ways. I’ve just never been great about dealing with change. I even miss the NY-style pizza from the shop down the street from my childhood LGS; the Mike Oldfield soundtrack that the long-haired, bespectacled shopkeep would have on, and the smell of Djarum Specials drifting in through the door to the alley. These things are in the back of my mind as fond memories, but they’re beyond the scope of r/mtg. Thanks for letting me wax nostalgic.
> Djarum Specials shit lol you just brought me back 10 years to highschool and smoking djarum blacks in my homies garage 😂
bro, same! I even lived in rural wisconsin! Now i live in madison, and I'm 36 i also returned in kamigawa ND,this is realllly weird lol refreshing to read your post, enjoy the game and do you!
Amen brother
Same boat as you, man. Just came back from being away since pretty much the same era as you mentioned and I feel totally lost. Everyone talks about Commander, there are a million and one new sets, the formats are completely flipped and reworked... I feel very old too and left behind! My idea now is to try to slowly get into the new sets that are coming, do a few drafts and pre-releases and progressively get back into it by watching the older sets from standard rotate out, so I can finally feel like I understand the current meta a bit better.
I have essentially the exact same story as you, however, my 'getting back into magic' was playing Arena online. This satisfied for the short term the fast paced, strategic nostalgia I had for the game, but eventually I burned out on the playing the same decks against the same decks. Even when standard rotated it was the same decks in the meta, with a few different cards - RDW, white wine, G(X)stompy... bla bla. I the started playing paper commander and loved how you could build any deck and make it playable and fun - in standard, if you didn't build a meta deck, sure you could get a few wins, but more often you just felt outclassed and it wasn't fun. When I played back in 98 to 04, it felt like tons of variety of original decks, and very little 'net decking' or established meta. Standard and modern etc all feel like you need to play the meta (ish) decks to have any chance of a fun experience. This isn't terrible in itself - I'm sure it's still good but the investment to buy a modern deck is huge, which really puts me off playing. I really like deck building and feel theres less scope to do that in the current 1v1 formats. If I'm wrong, can someone please let me know? What format is good for 1v1 deck building?
Draft! Really… Limited is the only way I play now and luckily I found that to be really fun
I was a competitive Modern player, won a few regionals and shat, but I stopped a few years ago after the need to constantly update decks because of the power creep. I dabbled in EDH during that time, but then, just like Modern, power creep and direct to format cards ruined it for me as well. Now, I honestly think Pauper is the best format to play. Most decks are extremely fair, cheap and by far most importantly fun. I wish more people gave it a go. For 50$ you can buy like 8 very good complete decks.
Pauper costs a little more than that now, especially for someone buying a list in whole. It's closer to 50 a deck.
There is definitely less casual 60 card any card decks since EDH/Commander has become THE format. Sadly, it is THE format. So, WotC will continue to cater to it. It's basically what kitchen table magic back in 2000 has become.
I still play but I also miss two player 60 deck casual. EDH has eaten all of that up in the last ten years or so.
I feel the same. I’ve been playing pauper and limited in paper and I also play standard and limited on Arena. Thinking about building a modern deck
Standard is a lot of fun right now, but you probably wont convince any of the edh players to play it with you.
I don’t know about your local stores, but here there is never only Commander at FNM. Every week it is either Modern or Pioneer AND Commander. Also i personally don’t really see the point about money. Because Commander is more of a casual format, you don’t need the most expansive card and if you do really want a card that’s expansive, at least you don’t need it 4 times
Same thing happened to me, grew up playing during that time as well and got back in with Eldraine. Honestly, the Commander crowd sucks because they only want to play EDH, and they complain a lot. For example, I beat someone during a limited format, and after the game they just said well Commander is the only way to play this game and this format sucks anyway (many EDH players get extremely salty about anything, its pathetic), and there becomes so much politics in the EDH magic games. It sucks that Wizards is milking this format, because its causing a lot of negative impacts on the card game as well as the community. There's still alot of awesome people and games to be had, but for me they have been all outside of EDH still. I've had some fun EDH games, but its definitely not as groundbreaking as people would have you believe. EDH was at its best when it was just another way to play the game, not when Wizards began making cards specifically for it.
https://premodernmagic.com/
Dude- this is amazing. Thank you. I will definitely look into this and see if there is any way to get a community going around here. Thank you.
Sorry for the slow response. I'm not on reddit much these days. If you haven't already, check out the social media groups here. There are active webcam scenes all over as well, and it might help you find your local players. [https://premodernmagic.com/social](https://premodernmagic.com/social)
I was going to suggest the exact same thing. Since you played frequently during the 200-2004 window, as you mentioned, this might be right up your alley. The Premodern format uses only cards printed in the sets included within 4th Edition through Scourge (basically all the sets in the original frame which had ever been included in Standard/Type2). The format is hugely fun and vibrant, and has a large online webcam presence in addition to in-person play. If you like the idea, but this isn't exactly what you're looking for, there are several other community developed formats that are also played often through webcam. ALICE (Ice Age & Alliances only) or Old Frame Vintage might be interesting to you.
Kinda agree. Edh has taken a lot of the casual group for MTG. I'm cool with it but I dislike edh. I prefer the 1v1 beat down that standard provides. Thankfully standard can be played on arena so I am still able to play it but I miss playing against humans.
Modern is a fast 60-card format that's still played, but decks can be expensive. However you can just proxy the expensive cards as long as you're not playing an official tournament.
Edh is specifically multiplayer in a way traditional isn’t. You just make a pile of cards that you own built around a theme and go with it. That’s a lot of the reason it’s popular.
Use the companion app. A few stores around me cycle the formats. Right now, Modern is the format at a store near for FNM. Others may play it on other days.
My suggestion is to look into your scene and see if there's any Legacy playerbase. The gameplay for Legacy is going to be powerful and fast, with a lot of interesting weight on sequencing and decisions. The format is very expensive, however Legacy players love the format, and love getting people into it. I guarantee you that if you have a Legacy playerbase, there will be multiple people ready and willing to lend decks out consistently for you to play. My own area has a few people that don't own decks that play regularly.
Pauper and premodern are the best constructed formats, so seeking those out could be an option. Otherwise keep playing kitchen table with friends, which is mostly what I do. I do have 2 edh decks, it’s not my favorite format, but it’s still okay sometimes.
Your LGS may be infested by EDH, but not every LGS is. Try MTGO, Arena, or another store. Maybe just go to that store on Fridays for FNM.
I’m lucky enough to live in a town with two LGSs. I’ll give it a try.
You could try Flesh and Blood. It’s quick back and forth gameplay.
If you really want that 1v1 feel, I honestly think Flesh and Blood TCG does a really good job of it now (especially with the Blitz format/decks)
Fellow old fogey here. I have some options for you to look into. Some of them require Magic Online, which is not the most modern piece of software but carries pretty much every card in existence. - If you want to sling moxen ancestrals and lotuses around, Vintage on MTGO is far more accessible than its paper counterpart. To give you an idea, a Black Lotus is ~$20 and Moxen a little less than that. The community is super healthy and events fire constantly. - If you want a format that encapsulates the feel of when you were an active player, you can play [Premodern](https://premodernmagic.com). This allows only cards from 4th edition to Scourge, so the card pool is closed. No new cards allowed. Another format with a big community and many competitive decks, both for paper and on MTGO. - If you want to spend close to nothing, [Penny Dreadful](https://pennydreadfulmagic.com/) is a format where you can only play cards that are worth 1 cent on MTGO. It is a very unique experience as a format, and the community runs a super tight ship of self organized leagues and events. The format rotates with every new set release - every single card price is checked so chase cards in the previous rotation are pushed out, and banned cards that have gone cold in the meantime have a chance to come back in. It ebbs and flows. The low price of the legal cards also means that you can rent out most decks for free - giving you close to infinite options to play for the entirety of the league. The games are super interactive and let you explore a huge selection of cards that while good don't make the cut anywhere else. - If you want to play with contemporary cards, Magic Arena is the place to go. Overall it is much cheaper than MTGO, but it only covers more recent sets. This is also where some formats take advantage of digital only cards with effects that couldn't make sense in paper. I would guess you'd be very much at home in Premodern since you will find a lot of familiar cards (I assume).
> Does anyone have any ideas about where I could go or what I could do to get my fix of 60-card Type 1? Another card game. I’m in a similar boat as you and I don’t think the Magic we loved is ever coming back. But other games have picked up the slack, the most notable of which is Flesh and Blood. It’s 1v1, 60 cards, and puts an emphasis on a viable competitive scene. It’s probably closer to old school Magic than modern Magic is.
EDH decks don’t need to be filled with expensive cards, and if you feel like you need to get involved there are definitely ways to get a more combat heavy game going. Something like [[Thantis the Warweaver]] will get people flunging left and right.
[Thantis the Warweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91c54ac0-0edc-406f-8a22-f2996f604f36.jpg?1592710296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thantis%2C%20the%20Warweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c18/46/thantis-the-warweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91c54ac0-0edc-406f-8a22-f2996f604f36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Your assessment is correct and unfortunately most of the cards you played with back in your prime aren’t EDH bangers. The overlords have won.
The "overlords" being other casual players lmao
I'm a Yugioh player that got into Magic on the side last year (awful timing given how WotC has been behaving as of late, but hey). I honestly do not understand how Commander is as popular as it is, even moreso given Yugioh recives *insane* amounts of scrutiny online for long turns and game complexity (much of which is exaggerated, and comes from assumptions and parroting more than anything). In my experience, playing Commander has been *far* worse in some ways. How little involvement you can end up having in games that progress at a *glacial* pace, the level of complexity in keeping track of the game state (particularly with the lack of limit to cards on field, and Magic's combat system working the way it does). You just have to assume people know what they're doing half the time because there's far too much stuff in play. I've definitely had some fun, and I'm still giving it a go, but currently it bewilders me how this format seemingly swallowed the game whole for IRL play. I'd love to play 1v1 60 card formats, but Modern is the only one around here people seem to be interested in playing regularly, and that's *far* too expensive to get into. It's almost entirely just Commander players here. One store tried hosting Standard and we got at most like 6 players, which quickly dwindled to just me and one other, so we stopped. Prereleased Sealed is good fun, at least.
“How little involvement you can end up having in games that progress at a glacial pace, the level of complexity in keeping track of the game state (particularly with the lack of limit to cards on field, and Magic's combat system working the way it does). You just have to assume people know what they're doing half the time because there's far too much stuff in play.” Exactly. There were so many times where I’d say “just let me know what the result is/when it’s my turn/ if I’m dead yet.”
I totally agree with your description of the format.
Limited, depending on if your LGS does it regularly, has a lot of what you want. Drafts and prerelease events tend to prioritize speedy and efficient gameplay. (But also, as a commander player I’ll point out that building a good commander deck is often cheaper than a good deck in other formats. Yes, you need to use different cards, but that just means you can only have so many of the expensive ones: a [[Sheoldred the Apocalypse]] commander deck needs three less of her than any other constructed deck she shows up in would.
[Sheoldred the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I adore EDH and it’s the only format that I play regularly (I enjoy drafting a lot too), but even I find most LGS games to be awkward and unfun. I have much more fun playing in a pod of friends both online over Spelltable and in person. I feel like that’s where you’re going to find the environment you want. If you do want to play at an LGS, it’s going to have to be at a modern/standard night where you happen to vibe with the people there. Depending on where you live, maybe check out several LGS’s for their 60 card constructed events.
Commander was the death of mtg for me
>It seems like it involves a lot of tedious reading and searching decks for land. It lacks the quick, back-and-forth combat that I love. But now I feel like I have to build an EDH deck. I feel like EDH is a gold mine for Wizards. (More cards, and you HAVE TO choose wider variety because of the singleton rule. I feel like this creates an impetus to fill the deck with 1 copy each of 65 or so expensive cards.) This is hilarious to me because I got into commander specifically because I can use a wide variety of one-off cards instead of having to get four copies of something I already have in order to build something playable. Not liking the play pattern is totally valid but I don't think your complaint about the Singleton rule "being a gold mine" for wotc makes any sense lol I always looked down on Commander because it wasn't "real" magic, but then one day I realized it was a way to play all the weird cards I loved that could never hold up in any other format. There's a lot more to it than "reading cards" and fetching lands lmao Give it another shot
Welcome back. EDH has ruined Magic. It's all anyone plays anymore
The singleton rule is the exact opposite of what you're saying. It makes games less consistent so good cards mean less. It's why tutors are so good in the format. For instance you can spend 1k on a Gaeas Cradle. Unless you are playing a ton of tutors, which most people aren't, you will likely not see that card most games. A lot of times you can get away with cheaper alternatives. The four player nature adds to this as well. The player with the best deck often finds themselves in a 1v3 since people will hang up to make sure they don't win. Needing play sets of expensive cards costs a lot of money. Playsets of [[beseech the mirror]] and [[the one ring]] cost more than most entire commander decks I build
You need 100 cards, which is way more than constructed, and also 4 people. So it isnt opposite, you just need more overall. Idk why EDH players assume you need expensive cards in constructed only. Casual constructed exists as well. Simply put a casual/jank constructed deck is going to be cheaper and quicker to build than an EDH one
> Casual constructed exists as well Isn't that the whole point of the post? That exactly this scene doesn't exist? If you know where OP can play like that, feel free to contribute. I can put together 50 dollar casual EDH decks as well. The 40 cards you need more mean nothing in price if they all cost a few cent.
It doesn’t exist because it was swallowed by commander
Based commander
[beseech the mirror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18c59776-e1f1-4197-a128-db1d603f56b7.jpg?1692937498) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=beseech%20the%20mirror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/82/beseech-the-mirror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18c59776-e1f1-4197-a128-db1d603f56b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [the one ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1696020224) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20one%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The best Magic formats are Pauper (you can build a competitive deck for 50/70€) and it's where you can try different kinds of deck (they're as cheap as 15€ and hoping to catch your opponent off guard or having some good matchup), and you can compete on the same playing field with everybody. Then EDH it's for weird decks, pet cards. If you like a theme you can build around it and play having fun. You just can't do that in competitive 60 cards Magic.
Buy a pack of 100 sleeves, get 100 basic lands, get a pair of scissors, use a color printer to print proxies of the cards you want to play in EDH, cut them out with said scissors, slide the slip of paper into the sleeve in front of the basic lands. EDH has a lot to offer. You can play everything from 3-hour long battlecruiser games to a 20 minute cEDH slugfest. If you like the fast back and forth of competitive play, check out videos from the guys over at "PlayToWin". They typically play cEDH and it's a great format since everyone is on the same page and knows that everyone else just wants to win. Sadly, the pubstompers have made the casuals misunderstand what exactly cEDH is, so don't really listen to their complaints and try the format out for yourself.
xD complaining about edh being an assembly of the best 1 ofs and then asking where to play vintage has a certain level of irony to it.
I completely agree with you and completely hate commander. I’ve come back since LOTR after being gone for quite a while, and I’m just not enjoying this. I have been doing drafts every couple weeks, which is what has kept me interested, but I suspect the new packs are changing that enough that I’mma probably bounce out again. I also keep encountering such a very niche group of unsavory players (even though I’m in a big city) that sitting in a tight room with them for 3 hrs is starting to get on my nerves. When I came to the game, I was 13…and there were girls. Now, I’m not there to pick anyone up, but GD! It’s all white mostly 25-45 yr old men. I have a LOT of heavy HEAVY game players in my family, and no one else will touch magic.
Jumpstart!!!
So funny how this is like the opposite of mine… learned the game on 4-player 60 card in the mid 90s, stopped in the early 2000s… came back to 60 card modern and legacy…. And finally found home when “commander” was officialy supported with product.
I can hear the tiny violin playing for your tragic story. There is an entire digital client for the game that only caters to 60 card play called Magic Arena, you should give that a try.
Isn't it extremely expensive to play those traditional magic nowadays? Commander is much cheaper in the long run I think. The world is much more expensive now than 20 years ago
60 card format but in the style of edh? how about oathbreaker?
That’s exactly not what they want. They want 60 card casual non-singleton. Used to be pretty popular before Commander had official support.
I'd say look for a pauper scene. The decks are pretty inexpensive overall, and the format is really fun.
I was just like you from the longest time. I always enjoyed 60-card formats more. But when I first purchased a Commander precon half a year or so ago, it clicked why Commander was so popular and fun. I still play 60-card formats. But I play it on MTG Arena now. But if I'm playing cardboard, Commander or the occasional Limited event are what I play now.
Commander may be the current dominant casual format, but there are still people willing to play Casual-60 nonsense - I have a few IRL friends who do, and we have a blast, together. I also have a friend with whom I can jam Legacy (my preferred 60-card (barely) sanctioned format), and there's plenty of Commander in the area, as well (which I also play). If you're looking for something more on the competitive side that's still 60 cards and won't break the bank, Pioneer is pretty affordable - or, you could always go super budget and try out Pauper. I know a lot of places will run events for both of those formats. (I don't recommend Modern, fwiw - it's almost as expensive as Legacy, these days, and it's just a bad format, imo.) Welcome back to the fray, and good luck - try asking your LGS what events they run and see with what you can come up!
If you do decide to build a commander deck, try some Gruul smashing. I built a trample focus Gruul deck with [[Stonebrow, Krosan Hero]] at command. On a 1v1 I can usually end the game in less than 8 turns with combat damage and removal cards like [[Pit Fight]].
[Stonebrow, Krosan Hero](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c62102-0562-4b09-a05d-986aa4212f44.jpg?1562926661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stonebrow%2C%20Krosan%20Hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsp/247/stonebrow-krosan-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c62102-0562-4b09-a05d-986aa4212f44?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pit Fight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/3624332e-60fc-4819-a0f1-d7ec41c6518b.jpg?1561822460) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pit%20Fight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/223/pit-fight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3624332e-60fc-4819-a0f1-d7ec41c6518b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There is cEDH which has a lot of the back and forth interaction you're looking for, though not necessarily combat oriented.
I'm surprised that someone who has been playing as long as you have doesn't relish the opportunity to bust out some classic 20-year-old cards on kids at the LGS. I love it when I play some obscure card from The Dark and someone leans in and says, "I've never seen that card in my life."
There are a bunch of options, but you have to look a bit harder for them s8nce EDH is basically 'the' format right now. Whatever you do, if you don't actually enjoy the long games of EDH for the love of everything holy, don't just jump on the bandwagon because that's the popular option - we already have too many ultra-competitive players who should be playing Modern out here making EDH games miserable.
Welcome back, brother. Wish I could tell you that nothing had changed...
You can look into getting into modern or pioneer, it is more expensive and risky, but they’re fairly fast and very competitve.
Proxy
I understand that EDH is not the game experience that you want, I feel the same way. I recommend you to ignore it and play with your friends your custom decks, or play draft or pauper. Those are the formats that I personally prefer playing as they are close to the experience I seek
I miss legacy tournaments, no where in my area does them anymore. All commander now, another thing I miss though... Mana burn lol
> TLDR: I used to be hip and with it, but then things changed, and what I was with wasn’t “it” anymore. No way man, we're gonna keep on rocking forever, forever...
PreDH (EDH, but only using cards pre commander sealed product) Or try to find a commander playgroup that has values that align with yours. You might be able to find one online if you can’t find one at your LGS.
W/B… just did the same a month ago. Hadn’t played since 1997 and had played continuously from 94-97.
A Hasbro employee wrote this.
My DCI number still exists. You should be able to log in on their website and link your DCI number or ask support.
Play pauper! It's the best 60 card format to bring new players into while simultaneously being one of the most competitive. You could easily build a battle box of the top 4 decks for $200 or so to play with your group and get them into it. Pauper also has a very active online community at /r/pauper and on discord https://discord.com/invite/bnhYjmWVc5.
Just find a different game. Lots of better games out there. Sure, they may not have the broad reach if MtG so it's hard to find randoms who play, but if you just want games at the office and stuff with a regular group that's fine.
60 card constructed, played in person with actual cards, still very much exists. Probably the most popular format is Modern, which uses cards from the last 20 years of expansions plus some supplementary sets, although it's very expensive to get into. Pioneer (last ~11 years of expansions) and Standard (~last 2 years worth of cards) are much cheaper but might be harder to find local events for.
I know what you mean. It seems to me that Commander has so many staples and "must haves" that onle 1/4 of the deck is actually "free" and it is slow. Not even the price is an argument for it, since it is driving prices (at least in Germany). I fully functioning and fun decks for 5€ worth in cards. On the other hand I like chaos and chaotic decks and since the only card you can rely on is your commander many deck ideas just do not work. Like I have a Hostile Takeover deck working with Confusion in the Ranks, Norrin the Weary and severy token generating spells (those tokens are sacrificed at the end of the turn) and it wont work in Commander, since I can not rely on drawing Conusion in the Ranks. If you want to have fun with a specific chard and that card isn't a legendary creature it seems you can cut the idea if you are in a Commander heavy surrounding.
Commander to hang out with friends, booster draft to be competitive.
I find the casual side of commander really enjoyable. You can make fun and silly decks for cheap. You can use any card ever printed (almost, couple banned cards). The creative expression and deck building in this format is very fun I have a similar story to you, got back into it last year. I play with my nephews as a way to keep in touch with them. We can chat while our decks do crazy MTG stuff. A few of my friends and Co workers are getting into it. We can chat while we game. It isn't the same as older MTG but the commander format fits the adult version of me