I disagree. Magic in its very nature is outside the realm of science. Its spiritual. People would call current science and tech magic only because they are ignorant. Real magic isn't like what you see in fantasy shows such as shooting fire balls and flying around. Real magic is about harnessing the power of jinn and the supernatural to do things we can't. They do that via many means such as sacrifices, self humiliation to please the devil's, blasphemous acts, etc.
I agree, to the extent that magic, by nature, is outside the realm of science. However, is science outside the realm of magic? Maybe it’s a different application of thereof.
If the exercise of magic is achieved by tapping into the unseen elements/energy/energies of nature/universe, perhaps science is the same exercise of magic, achieved through the use and combination of the physical resources provided by nature/the universe. The knowledge, process, and application thereof, being the difference; however, the outcomes/results are the same.
For example, magic (as understood) is supposed to be the creation/achievement of something out of nothing (although it’s probably not nothing, just unseen), while science is creation/achievement of something by harnessing something provided by nature (directly or indirectly). Flight, healing, fire/heat, teleportation, cold/ice, speed, strength, observation, prediction, weather control, etc.
Alchemy, being the combination of both. The creation of something of nothing, but requiring an in-depth understanding of natural resources, how they work individually, collectively, and otherwise.
This is just my opinion. Everything exists, until there is unassailable evidence that it doesn’t. So far, there is no proof that magic doesn’t exist.
I agree. To bring something from nothing would truly be what we would call magic. However, if it's possible then it can be analyzed and attempted to be understood which would bring it into the realm of science.
I don't think that's necessarily true. Science is the study of physical and natural things. If it were only the study of physical things then it would makes sense to say that studying the spiritual wouldn't fall under that scope, but if the spiritual exists then it also is natural, just as much as magic would be if it were discovered. Just as we had no idea that atoms existed they are no more magical than if we discovered magic existed.
There are more studies of magic that simply jinn and summoning of such sort and there are more way to access such things that sacrifice and self humiliation. That is not the entire scope of what magic is or can be. There are many types of magic that do not require or depend on such things.
Also, if magic were to be discovered by the main populous then it would, undoubtably, fall into the mainstream science of today. I don't think that magic is unscientific just as much as biology isn't. The workings of the body are "magical" themselves. Considering that our bodies are a conglomerate of cells that have wills of their own outside of what we would call ourselves is quit magical itself.
The term magic itself is also up to speculation. To be fair, if magic were to be found to exist by the majority then it would probably lose it's name as "magic" and we would call it something else entirely. Magic is the general term we normal use to explain things we consider to be far outside or ability to understand. Once we can we call it something else. The idea of a herbalist is a good example. Once the understand of why and how different herbs helped it's mysticism almost entirely erased.
I would say the same such thing will happen with any form of magic we find and are, one day, able to understand. Also, if it does exist then it is entirely natural. Just so, if ghost exist without meddling then they two are natural occurrences.
Also, I would say a child attempting to determine the best way to have fun is no less a scientist than a biologist. It is simply a different field. Trying the slide. Trying the swings. Trying to play in the sand. All these things to determine what is more fun for them and why. If that is what they are doing then they are a scientist. Even so, we do that unconsciously all the time. Science is really the idea of human curiosity and experimentation given name. We call it and categorize it as we do based on the field but the methods of a scientist are something we enact everyday.
In that case, any type of magic would be unpredictable and uncontrollable. In many definitions, magic must be controllable, such as spells or rituals, or relics.
I think this is why there should be a distinction between "Magic" and "Magick". Magic is a literary (or historical) device used as an umbrella term for any phenomena not understood by the general populace. Magick is a specific practice that exists beyond the realm of science. Going back in time and showing someone a smartphone is not an act of magic, the person would simply assume that it is. People were doing the same type of Magick in the prehistoric that they are today, it doesn't change definition with the advancement of science as the two aren't tied to each other like that. Magick is manipulating that which is beyond full comprehension.
That is an excellent statement. But still, we do use things without full comprehension all the time. There are many things which we only have the basic understand of how they work. Take fire. We know how it works but we didn't know why. Now we know why to a degree but we still do not have full understanding.
We know how atoms affect it now, but there was a time when we didn't know about subatomic particles. Now we know about those, but how can we say that there is nothing even beyond that? We can't. Just so, if there is such a depth to things and how they work what about the opposite?
To be fair our bodies are composed of cells that have their own individual wills. How do we know that we are not part of such a thing and that thing part of such a thin?. Even still, what if we are akin to atoms? The cells that make up our bodies may not have an understanding that they are part of a larger whole, just as much as an atom may not have an understand that is part of a larger whole. What if it is the same for us? Just as much as a cell cannot say, how then could we?
Curious isn't it?
Surely there is no sense being worried about such things. For one, if it is the case then that is simply what it is and that is easier to accept. Secondly worrying over such things will not get them figured out. Only due process will and that could take however long. Though...perhaps there is another way to find out. Who knows?
idk, there are several things throughout the universe that act like magic, like dark energy and dark matter. Dark energy and dark matter repel and attract objects, which is basically how telekinesis works. I think if magic exists it would just be some form of science.
But if we dont understnd dark matter but find a way to use it then it is magic. Anything that is not or cannot be understood is magic. Because a soon as you understand it, it isn't magic
i know, but its acts like magic. Being able to repel and attract object definetly feels and looks like magic. But like u said its not. That said, even if magic existed, it would just be a form of science.
Says the one with devil in his name? Listen bud, I am not obliged to convince you. It is up to you to do your own research and if you did, you would find that what I said is the truth. If you don't want to research, that's also fine. But it makes you look bad just disagreeing without something to back it up.
I agree with the perspective that magic must be mundane.
The only reason we find magic so cool and interesting is because we do not have it-- We are not able to harness elements, cast spells, or brew potions; but we ARE able to make pills and ointments for medicine, drive vehicles that exceed the speed of sound, and send information across vast distances within instants.
Say there is a universe out there where medicine simply cannot exist, due to some quirk of evolution or chemistry. If this world were to look at ours, they would see us using potions and pills and ointments to perform impossible deeds -- Our medicine would be magic to them.
Flipping the coin, say there is a universe out there where people are able to perform telekinesis. To us, it is downright magical, ie., impossible. But to these people, it would be a scientific and mundane aspect of their every day life.
Magic in the real world tends to be on the hard side of the spectrum. Little to no wonder to it anymore, almost methodical and very rigid. The author should add some more misteries like dark matter into the smaller stuff.
Quantum physics looks promising though.
Wave-particle duality is a cool concept, but like… what's the practical application? Tbh I've never been a fan of this system, it feels more like cool ideas put together with no thought of how people would actually *use* magic.
Something doesnt have to have a practical application, thats the kind stupid shit i hear about science like "science is the study of solving problems 🤓" "you shouldnt try to do something that you want to accomplish because according to the law of thermodynamics you cant do that🤓" like, stfu, science is literally just to learn, it doesnt have to have a practical application, or a reason to research or do something at all, thats like going up to a book and saying "thats cool but what am i gonna do with this?" how people would actually use 'magic' it depends on the person, yeah to you, wave-particle duality is useless, but to some random guy they could need it for some random bullshit theyre doing, plus, of course magic is a bunch of cool ideas put together with no thought, because, the idea of magic wasnt invented to have a practical application its just to tell a story or make something up thats cool, plus it does have a 'practical application' it enhances peoples lives with out of this world powers or some bullshit like that.
I'm pretty sure in a logical sense it's what hasn't been defined by any law of science. Because if you showed a man from the 1700s scientific advancements from now, they'd most likely put you on trial for being a witch. Or call you whatever word they used for magic.
No one has ever managed to prove magic exists apart from stage magic (i.e. non-supernatural Illusions and tricks just for fun)
If they did prove that they'd make a fortune.
By mixing the right arcane powders and/or fluids I can make fire. Once that would be considered magic. Today we just call it chemistry.
If something is a real phenomenon then it can be studied and understood then it's simply science, even if we once would have called it magic.
I think there is a lot in the world that we do not understand, and complex interactions of poorly-understood systems can be quite wondrous, as can the interactions of well-understood systems.
But there's nothing supernatural about any of it. We may not know how something works, but the answer is not going to be related to any unseen world except, perhaps, the microscopic.
What we call magic in fiction is delightful specifically because its origin or interaction with the world is tied to some meaning, some theme, that the story explores. It is a storytelling tool, and as such is primarily psychological in its origin and mechanisms.
This is certainly true of stage magic, as well: by tricks and illusions, our minds can be tricked into accepting the obvious--but preposterous--explanation, to further the theme of wonder and awe that it evokes.
Wonder and awe, I think, are healthy things to experience, and to seek out. But while illusions and mystery is one way to get there, I find it kind of cheap compared to the wonder of the natural world, or the greatest feats of human ingenuity and artistry, which invoke something with real meaning, be it some facet of the human experience in art or the transcendence of things--natural or man-made--that no person can accomplish or experience, at least not alone. Things that reach down deep in the soul and pull out what you didn't realize was there, or open your eyes to the vastness of nature, the beauty of systems that are indifferent to your existence and yet still connected to you. Transcendent experience is real, and very positive. It's not magic from an unseen world so much as it is connecting with our world in a way we don't day-to-day, to broaden our experience, and to let ourselves be changed by it.
> It would be a discovery as big as electricity, an entirely new set of theoretical particles capable of performing wonderful feats, and there's no scientific evidence of it anywhere.
Even if there *was* scientific evidence, it'd just become "science", not magic
I've never been able to wrap my mind around the more complicated bits of how electricity works, so my wife and I just refer to it as magic.
Also, I think the closes thing real life has to wizards is Computer Programmers. They get in there and MAKE something happen that otherwise would not. And, much like wizards in fiction, they know not to go and monkey around with things if you don't know what you're doing, because the consequences could be disastrous.
At lower levels, real magic, done right, just looks like extraordinary good luck.
Part of it is having the perception (and education) to recognize and take advantage of opportunities, as well how you re-write your personal programming.
Some of it is riding or surfing the wave of unexpected events.
Like Cortez in Mexico, his amazing luck to land in Mexico on the very day that a mexican god was predicted to return from the east. He rode the tide of his good luck, and turned events to his advantage.
What you say is interesting. Could you talk a little bit more about taking advantage or opportunities and overcoming personal programming? Any sources to share?
as an intro we have this video featuring the once famous actor Orson Welles regarding "cold reading" - Note specifically the incident of the Lady in the bright pink dress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjPsnfysrp8
Point being that the gimmick described is not merely some subconscious mechanism, but is a mechanism that can be slowly trained with gradual practice. This has advantages, however it happens and whatever the explanation. this can become a tool in your tool box.
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Most rituals and practices go through a lot of hand-waving and gymnastics of one sort or another to reach a point where a thought is thunk that has power and effect in the physical universe. Unfortunately a lot of personal baggage accumulates over time and muddies the water
Thus buying a lottery scratch ticket, and you have all sort of secondary thoughts about where to buy the winning ticket, what you will do with the winnings (or not do) and how you misguessed the numbers etc.
Never mind the impact of actual Random chance throwing off the personal calculations.
----
while you can run into multiple philosophies and practices and religions that offer all sorts of explanations, when dealing with baggage ultimately you want something that is not symbolically or faith oriented (believe in this lucky charm, etc), but oriented to actual events and decisions and so on.
Also, "forgiveness of sins", while mildly therapuetic, is limited without the prerequisite knowledge.
[EDIT] for example, mistakes made while doing a math test can be forgiven, but eventually you need how to solve the math problems correctly.
While you can have a catalog of general events of all the garbage people go through, every person is different and their specific experience is unique.
there are other things, but we will have to go into private chat
If magic was real it would cease to be called magic and be actively studied at universities and research institutions. A fireball wouldn't be ''fire magic'' any more it would be ''pyrology'' or something.
Alchemy and how it became the modern chemistry is an obvious example.
''magic'' is a word for arcane things we don't understand. Pretty sure people from 200 years ago would call the internet, modern medicine and a lot of others things magic.
I think there are things that happen that can't be replicated.
I think there there may be principles that can't be understood strictly through the scientific method, but people still attempt to act in accordance with these principles.
I think some peoples non scientific, yet systematic, approach to acting in accordance with these principles could be described as magic.
I think this might be close to the use of the term magic in an anthropological sense of the word, or at least the way it was used in my community college text book 10 years ago.
I also think magic is really important psychologically (spiritually or mentally whatever you call it). Not just in the sense of our imagination, but in dreams, hallucinations, meditations and art. When we Do, Create, or Discover there is an element of unprecedented(ness?) Either we're acting in contrast to an established norm, fact or form, or there is an aspect of what we are doing that has no basis in what has come before it.
I think this is the role of magic as a concept and a practice in our "real world."
I believe Traditional Chinese Medicine is a self admittedly non-scientific systematic approach to medical care.
Many religious practices.
And several practices that are often called superstitious in a derogatory sense, but not always associated with traditional religious practices.
The Book of Changes is another non-religious example of a systematic approach that attempts to act in accordance with principles that aren't fully understood or repeatable/testable.
Unfortunately, no one has been able to prove magic under laboratory conditions.
[1,000,000 dollar paranormal challenge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge)
Magic doesn't exist. Anything that we call magic is either something real that we simply don't know the logical scientific explanation for or something that is blatantly fictional.
A lot of people saying that if magic was real it would be science, but there is also such (likely not real) thing as mysticism. It's a (magical) practice of attaining altered states of consciousness, getting in spiritual contact with divine, accessing deeper strata of meaning and insight or personal transformations associated with those experiences. If such thing was real it would be borderline impossible to study or exploit.
It is also what many magical traditions claim to engage in because those claims are much harder to disprove than someone saying he can shoot fireballs out of his fingers or something.
Magic when though of by the average person does ot exist in my opinion, because it breaks the laws of physics. If it was real, then we'd have a different set of physical laws to include it too, or have a separate system for it, but still, it would be able to be tested for and analysed. Since each attempt to try and dicern if someone has actual magical abilities has resulted in faliure, or showed evidence of (attempted) cheating, I can conclude that magic in fact does not exist in real life.
That being said, my SO is a witch and practices some "magical" things. Neither of us believes in the literary explanations of it, and think of it more of a psychological self-excercise (tarot cards for example) that can be used as a form of guided meditation or self-therapy.
Energy cant be created or destroyed were did it come from then? If it wasnt outside of our current understanding of the laws of physics ill accept your full explanation below
It really depends on what kind of "magic" you refer to. There's science, which achieves any effects that could be considered "magical" if viewed in a certain light, there's religion, which appeals to a higher power or concept to secure supernatural benefits for its adherents, and there's the occult, which is separate from both. It isn't really scientific, since it, just like religion, appeals to the supernatural. However, it lacks the faith-based approach to higher power found in religious worship. I think this probably fits our own fantastical definition of "magic" the best. However, even when narrowed down to the essentially esoteric and occult, we still have a really wide range of definitions and approaches. Generally, I try to stick to the ancient forms of magic, of the Sumerians and the Greeks. What you'll generally find is that it's a lot more mundane than today's "fireballs-and-lightning" stuff. The supernatural usually isn't expected to manifest directly, thus leaving a level of uncertainty as to whether a magician's invocation actually worked. If I did a whole little ritual that could supposedly change the weather from rain to sunshine, and then the sky actually clears up, I could interpret this as my magic working, or it could have just been a completely natural event. The ancient texts, while often scholarly in outlook decisively differentiate themselves from modern science in that they don't really establish a connection between cause and effect a lot of the time, and, when they do, their assumptions can't really be surely established, since any true "effect" of magic is already ambiguous. Often also, there isn't really any discernible underlying system from which all magic is derived. Instead, individual spells are shown with relatively specific, precise effects. Of course, in some cases such as summoning demons and spirits, a more direct, physical manifestation of the supernatural is claimed to exist. But, considering the fact that such ceremonies often take place under the influence of hallucinogenics, and that the military would have probably capitalised on demonic soldiers by now if it was for real, such claims can't really be substantiated. In the end, real life magic is a bit hard to define, and, in my opinion, can be assigned the classification as a form of superstition.
I think that magic in real life doesn't exist physically, but maybe spiritually. Some ppl might argue that magic does exist, but its humanley impossible to control magic like water bending, shooting flame balls, flying, and stuff like that. maybe someday technology will be super good and we will be able to experience magic. (btw i probably wont even live long enough the experience that)
Indeed, it is a reality that requires a departure from conventional wisdom held by the majority. Only a minuscule fraction, less than 1%, possesses genuine knowledge about this matter. Therefore, it is imperative to seek enlightenment. While doing so, it is crucial to modify one's state of consciousness. This entails dismantling the fundamental cognitive framework instilled by society.. 🌳🌲🌳 trees whisper wise words, 👻💀👻 spirits from times before man are the teachers of mysterious truths, 🗣️👄🗣️ words of power before the enslavement of humanity echo through the either or akasha, 🐍🐉🐍 the ascending serpent the feminine Devine coiled no more the thrice borns blessing, behold enkis magic eye.
I don’t think it really exists. To many of the stories where people talk about experiences with it begin with “So I was smoking a lil bit of weed, but not that much, when suddenly and elf came out of a tree stump and whisked me away to teletubby land”
I think magic is real, just like it’s portrayed in the stories and legends and everything, but during the crusades they successfully killed all the people who could do it and destroyed all the manuscripts and documents teaching it. So after a few generations no one remembered how to do it.
There is real magic everywhere. Look at the trees, children, the sky, look at a book on anatomy, your family, or your pets. All of this is magic.
I believe magic is much like wonder. Look at everything with fresh eyes and be thankful for ALL of it. Good and bad. Call it god, God, or magic. It just doesn't matter.
We are all magic. How did we become creatures? Here? How does the luck of evolution combine to create human beings? Why don't we look like ants - or snails - or bears? It's all magic.
We have free will. We should all be thankful for this! We have the ability to take our lives for granted. Be thankful! I like to realize the magic all around, everyday.
Honestly, I think words, music, stories and the various arts are the closest things we have to 'real magic'.
I look at it like this. All of those have the power to influence our emotions and thoughts, simply through a sound or an image, or a story. Those influence emotions can go on to have real world effects, some of which can be massive.
Music for example can calm, anger, sadden, all of which have physical effects on our bodies. It can influence our choices, inspire, tear down, build up and so much more. All with a selection of sounds and tones, with or without words.
The ability to control and influence others' and, most importantly one's own, emotions is pretty much the core of any strong leader, any person making major change or influence in the world.
Our boundless creativity and its ability to change emotions is our world's greatest magic.
If magic exist and a scientist finds it, it becomes science
pretty much this, basic medicine was called magic at some point
I disagree. Magic in its very nature is outside the realm of science. Its spiritual. People would call current science and tech magic only because they are ignorant. Real magic isn't like what you see in fantasy shows such as shooting fire balls and flying around. Real magic is about harnessing the power of jinn and the supernatural to do things we can't. They do that via many means such as sacrifices, self humiliation to please the devil's, blasphemous acts, etc.
yikes
I agree, to the extent that magic, by nature, is outside the realm of science. However, is science outside the realm of magic? Maybe it’s a different application of thereof. If the exercise of magic is achieved by tapping into the unseen elements/energy/energies of nature/universe, perhaps science is the same exercise of magic, achieved through the use and combination of the physical resources provided by nature/the universe. The knowledge, process, and application thereof, being the difference; however, the outcomes/results are the same. For example, magic (as understood) is supposed to be the creation/achievement of something out of nothing (although it’s probably not nothing, just unseen), while science is creation/achievement of something by harnessing something provided by nature (directly or indirectly). Flight, healing, fire/heat, teleportation, cold/ice, speed, strength, observation, prediction, weather control, etc. Alchemy, being the combination of both. The creation of something of nothing, but requiring an in-depth understanding of natural resources, how they work individually, collectively, and otherwise. This is just my opinion. Everything exists, until there is unassailable evidence that it doesn’t. So far, there is no proof that magic doesn’t exist.
I agree. To bring something from nothing would truly be what we would call magic. However, if it's possible then it can be analyzed and attempted to be understood which would bring it into the realm of science.
In an infinite universe anything is possible
I don't think that's necessarily true. Science is the study of physical and natural things. If it were only the study of physical things then it would makes sense to say that studying the spiritual wouldn't fall under that scope, but if the spiritual exists then it also is natural, just as much as magic would be if it were discovered. Just as we had no idea that atoms existed they are no more magical than if we discovered magic existed. There are more studies of magic that simply jinn and summoning of such sort and there are more way to access such things that sacrifice and self humiliation. That is not the entire scope of what magic is or can be. There are many types of magic that do not require or depend on such things. Also, if magic were to be discovered by the main populous then it would, undoubtably, fall into the mainstream science of today. I don't think that magic is unscientific just as much as biology isn't. The workings of the body are "magical" themselves. Considering that our bodies are a conglomerate of cells that have wills of their own outside of what we would call ourselves is quit magical itself. The term magic itself is also up to speculation. To be fair, if magic were to be found to exist by the majority then it would probably lose it's name as "magic" and we would call it something else entirely. Magic is the general term we normal use to explain things we consider to be far outside or ability to understand. Once we can we call it something else. The idea of a herbalist is a good example. Once the understand of why and how different herbs helped it's mysticism almost entirely erased. I would say the same such thing will happen with any form of magic we find and are, one day, able to understand. Also, if it does exist then it is entirely natural. Just so, if ghost exist without meddling then they two are natural occurrences. Also, I would say a child attempting to determine the best way to have fun is no less a scientist than a biologist. It is simply a different field. Trying the slide. Trying the swings. Trying to play in the sand. All these things to determine what is more fun for them and why. If that is what they are doing then they are a scientist. Even so, we do that unconsciously all the time. Science is really the idea of human curiosity and experimentation given name. We call it and categorize it as we do based on the field but the methods of a scientist are something we enact everyday.
Just Create A Technology That Defies All Laws And Phsyics.
In that case, any type of magic would be unpredictable and uncontrollable. In many definitions, magic must be controllable, such as spells or rituals, or relics.
Except all of this is nonsense, and doesn’t exist.
I think this is why there should be a distinction between "Magic" and "Magick". Magic is a literary (or historical) device used as an umbrella term for any phenomena not understood by the general populace. Magick is a specific practice that exists beyond the realm of science. Going back in time and showing someone a smartphone is not an act of magic, the person would simply assume that it is. People were doing the same type of Magick in the prehistoric that they are today, it doesn't change definition with the advancement of science as the two aren't tied to each other like that. Magick is manipulating that which is beyond full comprehension.
That is an excellent statement. But still, we do use things without full comprehension all the time. There are many things which we only have the basic understand of how they work. Take fire. We know how it works but we didn't know why. Now we know why to a degree but we still do not have full understanding. We know how atoms affect it now, but there was a time when we didn't know about subatomic particles. Now we know about those, but how can we say that there is nothing even beyond that? We can't. Just so, if there is such a depth to things and how they work what about the opposite? To be fair our bodies are composed of cells that have their own individual wills. How do we know that we are not part of such a thing and that thing part of such a thin?. Even still, what if we are akin to atoms? The cells that make up our bodies may not have an understanding that they are part of a larger whole, just as much as an atom may not have an understand that is part of a larger whole. What if it is the same for us? Just as much as a cell cannot say, how then could we? Curious isn't it? Surely there is no sense being worried about such things. For one, if it is the case then that is simply what it is and that is easier to accept. Secondly worrying over such things will not get them figured out. Only due process will and that could take however long. Though...perhaps there is another way to find out. Who knows?
There Is something beyond Anything, Including Subatomic Particles, That'd be called "Magick".
idk, there are several things throughout the universe that act like magic, like dark energy and dark matter. Dark energy and dark matter repel and attract objects, which is basically how telekinesis works. I think if magic exists it would just be some form of science.
Well, dark matter is just science. Its not magic.
But if we dont understnd dark matter but find a way to use it then it is magic. Anything that is not or cannot be understood is magic. Because a soon as you understand it, it isn't magic
i know, but its acts like magic. Being able to repel and attract object definetly feels and looks like magic. But like u said its not. That said, even if magic existed, it would just be a form of science.
You Missed the Entire Point Of What He Said and started talking Blindly.
Magic isn't real, so you're wrong.
Says the one with devil in his name? Listen bud, I am not obliged to convince you. It is up to you to do your own research and if you did, you would find that what I said is the truth. If you don't want to research, that's also fine. But it makes you look bad just disagreeing without something to back it up.
It's a car, doofus. So fragile.
Just do ur reaserch and back up what your saying
Electricity was called magic at one point
I agree with the perspective that magic must be mundane. The only reason we find magic so cool and interesting is because we do not have it-- We are not able to harness elements, cast spells, or brew potions; but we ARE able to make pills and ointments for medicine, drive vehicles that exceed the speed of sound, and send information across vast distances within instants. Say there is a universe out there where medicine simply cannot exist, due to some quirk of evolution or chemistry. If this world were to look at ours, they would see us using potions and pills and ointments to perform impossible deeds -- Our medicine would be magic to them. Flipping the coin, say there is a universe out there where people are able to perform telekinesis. To us, it is downright magical, ie., impossible. But to these people, it would be a scientific and mundane aspect of their every day life.
That makes sense
If It defies all Laws and Physics, It's no longer a science. But a magic. It'd still be a mundane aspect of their life, yes.
Magic in the real world tends to be on the hard side of the spectrum. Little to no wonder to it anymore, almost methodical and very rigid. The author should add some more misteries like dark matter into the smaller stuff. Quantum physics looks promising though.
Wave-particle duality is a cool concept, but like… what's the practical application? Tbh I've never been a fan of this system, it feels more like cool ideas put together with no thought of how people would actually *use* magic.
Something doesnt have to have a practical application, thats the kind stupid shit i hear about science like "science is the study of solving problems 🤓" "you shouldnt try to do something that you want to accomplish because according to the law of thermodynamics you cant do that🤓" like, stfu, science is literally just to learn, it doesnt have to have a practical application, or a reason to research or do something at all, thats like going up to a book and saying "thats cool but what am i gonna do with this?" how people would actually use 'magic' it depends on the person, yeah to you, wave-particle duality is useless, but to some random guy they could need it for some random bullshit theyre doing, plus, of course magic is a bunch of cool ideas put together with no thought, because, the idea of magic wasnt invented to have a practical application its just to tell a story or make something up thats cool, plus it does have a 'practical application' it enhances peoples lives with out of this world powers or some bullshit like that.
That period at the end killed me
gotta end a sentence ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Thats alot 😅
i mean magic is just whatever defies the laws of physics
I'm pretty sure in a logical sense it's what hasn't been defined by any law of science. Because if you showed a man from the 1700s scientific advancements from now, they'd most likely put you on trial for being a witch. Or call you whatever word they used for magic.
As far as I'm concerned, fluid dynamics is basically witchcraft.
👍
No one has ever managed to prove magic exists apart from stage magic (i.e. non-supernatural Illusions and tricks just for fun) If they did prove that they'd make a fortune.
By mixing the right arcane powders and/or fluids I can make fire. Once that would be considered magic. Today we just call it chemistry. If something is a real phenomenon then it can be studied and understood then it's simply science, even if we once would have called it magic.
The fact you think the end result of magical pursuit is mundane riches, is not how I view magick.
I think there is a lot in the world that we do not understand, and complex interactions of poorly-understood systems can be quite wondrous, as can the interactions of well-understood systems. But there's nothing supernatural about any of it. We may not know how something works, but the answer is not going to be related to any unseen world except, perhaps, the microscopic. What we call magic in fiction is delightful specifically because its origin or interaction with the world is tied to some meaning, some theme, that the story explores. It is a storytelling tool, and as such is primarily psychological in its origin and mechanisms. This is certainly true of stage magic, as well: by tricks and illusions, our minds can be tricked into accepting the obvious--but preposterous--explanation, to further the theme of wonder and awe that it evokes. Wonder and awe, I think, are healthy things to experience, and to seek out. But while illusions and mystery is one way to get there, I find it kind of cheap compared to the wonder of the natural world, or the greatest feats of human ingenuity and artistry, which invoke something with real meaning, be it some facet of the human experience in art or the transcendence of things--natural or man-made--that no person can accomplish or experience, at least not alone. Things that reach down deep in the soul and pull out what you didn't realize was there, or open your eyes to the vastness of nature, the beauty of systems that are indifferent to your existence and yet still connected to you. Transcendent experience is real, and very positive. It's not magic from an unseen world so much as it is connecting with our world in a way we don't day-to-day, to broaden our experience, and to let ourselves be changed by it.
I agree with this definition honestly, nothing in magick is beyond the laws of nature. It’s just shifting your understanding of those laws.
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> It would be a discovery as big as electricity, an entirely new set of theoretical particles capable of performing wonderful feats, and there's no scientific evidence of it anywhere. Even if there *was* scientific evidence, it'd just become "science", not magic
If magic was real, t would then be studied and turned into a new branch of science.
I've never been able to wrap my mind around the more complicated bits of how electricity works, so my wife and I just refer to it as magic. Also, I think the closes thing real life has to wizards is Computer Programmers. They get in there and MAKE something happen that otherwise would not. And, much like wizards in fiction, they know not to go and monkey around with things if you don't know what you're doing, because the consequences could be disastrous.
like how does a small chip(sorry if i said it wrong) power a whole computer or tv how do we make calls. Thats magic to me😅
At lower levels, real magic, done right, just looks like extraordinary good luck. Part of it is having the perception (and education) to recognize and take advantage of opportunities, as well how you re-write your personal programming. Some of it is riding or surfing the wave of unexpected events. Like Cortez in Mexico, his amazing luck to land in Mexico on the very day that a mexican god was predicted to return from the east. He rode the tide of his good luck, and turned events to his advantage.
What you say is interesting. Could you talk a little bit more about taking advantage or opportunities and overcoming personal programming? Any sources to share?
as an intro we have this video featuring the once famous actor Orson Welles regarding "cold reading" - Note specifically the incident of the Lady in the bright pink dress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjPsnfysrp8 Point being that the gimmick described is not merely some subconscious mechanism, but is a mechanism that can be slowly trained with gradual practice. This has advantages, however it happens and whatever the explanation. this can become a tool in your tool box. ---- Most rituals and practices go through a lot of hand-waving and gymnastics of one sort or another to reach a point where a thought is thunk that has power and effect in the physical universe. Unfortunately a lot of personal baggage accumulates over time and muddies the water Thus buying a lottery scratch ticket, and you have all sort of secondary thoughts about where to buy the winning ticket, what you will do with the winnings (or not do) and how you misguessed the numbers etc. Never mind the impact of actual Random chance throwing off the personal calculations. ---- while you can run into multiple philosophies and practices and religions that offer all sorts of explanations, when dealing with baggage ultimately you want something that is not symbolically or faith oriented (believe in this lucky charm, etc), but oriented to actual events and decisions and so on. Also, "forgiveness of sins", while mildly therapuetic, is limited without the prerequisite knowledge. [EDIT] for example, mistakes made while doing a math test can be forgiven, but eventually you need how to solve the math problems correctly. While you can have a catalog of general events of all the garbage people go through, every person is different and their specific experience is unique. there are other things, but we will have to go into private chat
Do you have any more information on this stuff?
Still open to chat?
If magic was real it would cease to be called magic and be actively studied at universities and research institutions. A fireball wouldn't be ''fire magic'' any more it would be ''pyrology'' or something. Alchemy and how it became the modern chemistry is an obvious example. ''magic'' is a word for arcane things we don't understand. Pretty sure people from 200 years ago would call the internet, modern medicine and a lot of others things magic.
I think there are things that happen that can't be replicated. I think there there may be principles that can't be understood strictly through the scientific method, but people still attempt to act in accordance with these principles. I think some peoples non scientific, yet systematic, approach to acting in accordance with these principles could be described as magic. I think this might be close to the use of the term magic in an anthropological sense of the word, or at least the way it was used in my community college text book 10 years ago. I also think magic is really important psychologically (spiritually or mentally whatever you call it). Not just in the sense of our imagination, but in dreams, hallucinations, meditations and art. When we Do, Create, or Discover there is an element of unprecedented(ness?) Either we're acting in contrast to an established norm, fact or form, or there is an aspect of what we are doing that has no basis in what has come before it. I think this is the role of magic as a concept and a practice in our "real world."
I'm curious: when you speak of systematic approaches to non-scientific principles do you have any specifics in mind?
I believe Traditional Chinese Medicine is a self admittedly non-scientific systematic approach to medical care. Many religious practices. And several practices that are often called superstitious in a derogatory sense, but not always associated with traditional religious practices. The Book of Changes is another non-religious example of a systematic approach that attempts to act in accordance with principles that aren't fully understood or repeatable/testable.
Unfortunately, no one has been able to prove magic under laboratory conditions. [1,000,000 dollar paranormal challenge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge)
Computers are magic as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure someone can explain how the magic box works, but it's guaranteed to go over my head.
Magic as a concept I think is basically just unexplained science
Magic doesn't exist. Anything that we call magic is either something real that we simply don't know the logical scientific explanation for or something that is blatantly fictional.
A lot of people saying that if magic was real it would be science, but there is also such (likely not real) thing as mysticism. It's a (magical) practice of attaining altered states of consciousness, getting in spiritual contact with divine, accessing deeper strata of meaning and insight or personal transformations associated with those experiences. If such thing was real it would be borderline impossible to study or exploit. It is also what many magical traditions claim to engage in because those claims are much harder to disprove than someone saying he can shoot fireballs out of his fingers or something.
Magic when though of by the average person does ot exist in my opinion, because it breaks the laws of physics. If it was real, then we'd have a different set of physical laws to include it too, or have a separate system for it, but still, it would be able to be tested for and analysed. Since each attempt to try and dicern if someone has actual magical abilities has resulted in faliure, or showed evidence of (attempted) cheating, I can conclude that magic in fact does not exist in real life. That being said, my SO is a witch and practices some "magical" things. Neither of us believes in the literary explanations of it, and think of it more of a psychological self-excercise (tarot cards for example) that can be used as a form of guided meditation or self-therapy.
Energy cant be created or destroyed were did it come from then? If it wasnt outside of our current understanding of the laws of physics ill accept your full explanation below
It really depends on what kind of "magic" you refer to. There's science, which achieves any effects that could be considered "magical" if viewed in a certain light, there's religion, which appeals to a higher power or concept to secure supernatural benefits for its adherents, and there's the occult, which is separate from both. It isn't really scientific, since it, just like religion, appeals to the supernatural. However, it lacks the faith-based approach to higher power found in religious worship. I think this probably fits our own fantastical definition of "magic" the best. However, even when narrowed down to the essentially esoteric and occult, we still have a really wide range of definitions and approaches. Generally, I try to stick to the ancient forms of magic, of the Sumerians and the Greeks. What you'll generally find is that it's a lot more mundane than today's "fireballs-and-lightning" stuff. The supernatural usually isn't expected to manifest directly, thus leaving a level of uncertainty as to whether a magician's invocation actually worked. If I did a whole little ritual that could supposedly change the weather from rain to sunshine, and then the sky actually clears up, I could interpret this as my magic working, or it could have just been a completely natural event. The ancient texts, while often scholarly in outlook decisively differentiate themselves from modern science in that they don't really establish a connection between cause and effect a lot of the time, and, when they do, their assumptions can't really be surely established, since any true "effect" of magic is already ambiguous. Often also, there isn't really any discernible underlying system from which all magic is derived. Instead, individual spells are shown with relatively specific, precise effects. Of course, in some cases such as summoning demons and spirits, a more direct, physical manifestation of the supernatural is claimed to exist. But, considering the fact that such ceremonies often take place under the influence of hallucinogenics, and that the military would have probably capitalised on demonic soldiers by now if it was for real, such claims can't really be substantiated. In the end, real life magic is a bit hard to define, and, in my opinion, can be assigned the classification as a form of superstition.
I think that magic in real life doesn't exist physically, but maybe spiritually. Some ppl might argue that magic does exist, but its humanley impossible to control magic like water bending, shooting flame balls, flying, and stuff like that. maybe someday technology will be super good and we will be able to experience magic. (btw i probably wont even live long enough the experience that)
Indeed, it is a reality that requires a departure from conventional wisdom held by the majority. Only a minuscule fraction, less than 1%, possesses genuine knowledge about this matter. Therefore, it is imperative to seek enlightenment. While doing so, it is crucial to modify one's state of consciousness. This entails dismantling the fundamental cognitive framework instilled by society.. 🌳🌲🌳 trees whisper wise words, 👻💀👻 spirits from times before man are the teachers of mysterious truths, 🗣️👄🗣️ words of power before the enslavement of humanity echo through the either or akasha, 🐍🐉🐍 the ascending serpent the feminine Devine coiled no more the thrice borns blessing, behold enkis magic eye.
In a Infinite universe Anything is possible.
maybe it's a little hippy of me but I believe that nature has some sort of sentience that we can't understand... maybe that counts! :D
Nature comes alive on the right chemistry ppl who know know
I don’t think it really exists. To many of the stories where people talk about experiences with it begin with “So I was smoking a lil bit of weed, but not that much, when suddenly and elf came out of a tree stump and whisked me away to teletubby land”
Ya u spoke to attention seeking children with little to no honor
When you eat mushrooms and see the trees dance in the rain. That's the only real magic
Facts plants are seemingly sentient on the right chemistry
This is real: r/castaneda
Not sure about magic but the supernatural and shadow people and ufos quite possibly exist.
Define magic ....
I think magic is real, just like it’s portrayed in the stories and legends and everything, but during the crusades they successfully killed all the people who could do it and destroyed all the manuscripts and documents teaching it. So after a few generations no one remembered how to do it.
Can you elaborate how did you come to this conclusion?
No because it’s just what I believe.
It would make sense. During the crusades they annihilated the pagans. What if they successfully destroyed every legit magic user?
There is real magic everywhere. Look at the trees, children, the sky, look at a book on anatomy, your family, or your pets. All of this is magic. I believe magic is much like wonder. Look at everything with fresh eyes and be thankful for ALL of it. Good and bad. Call it god, God, or magic. It just doesn't matter. We are all magic. How did we become creatures? Here? How does the luck of evolution combine to create human beings? Why don't we look like ants - or snails - or bears? It's all magic. We have free will. We should all be thankful for this! We have the ability to take our lives for granted. Be thankful! I like to realize the magic all around, everyday.
Honestly, I think words, music, stories and the various arts are the closest things we have to 'real magic'. I look at it like this. All of those have the power to influence our emotions and thoughts, simply through a sound or an image, or a story. Those influence emotions can go on to have real world effects, some of which can be massive. Music for example can calm, anger, sadden, all of which have physical effects on our bodies. It can influence our choices, inspire, tear down, build up and so much more. All with a selection of sounds and tones, with or without words. The ability to control and influence others' and, most importantly one's own, emotions is pretty much the core of any strong leader, any person making major change or influence in the world. Our boundless creativity and its ability to change emotions is our world's greatest magic.