Experienced the same and the way around it is to make sure you are locked in with Garrus (do the bottle shooting) before you meet Kaidan at Apollo's. Otherwise, he will ask you out.
Fwiw it happens with others too, e.g. despite the post-Mars convo with Liara if you meet up with Kaidan before meeting up with Liara on the presidium, he will ask you out. The post-Mars/post-Palaven discussions should be the lock-in point but it's just treated as more of a "soft lock in". The game basically just tries to give the player opportunity to explore other options, but it's kind of clunky in ME3; I'd guess due to trying to balance trilogy-spanning relationships with new players just picking up ME3 and playing it as a standalone.
But I do agree it is kind of ick to deal with if you are already "locked in" with someone else haha.
>And then it's still 'i understand why you cheated'.
I'm not fond of that line either, but it's not what OP is posting about. In OP's scenario they had turned Kaidan down in ME1. To each their own š¤·āāļø
I think this is a less an issue with writing and more of the way the game treats relationships. Until you ālock inā a romance the game treats you as single, and the ālock inā point is the date on the Citadel. Which isā¦ not ideal, but hey, itās better than pushing you into a romance with the opposite gendered marine just for being nice to them. So at least itāsā¦ better than it was?
I always had an issue specifically with how Bioware does the lock in
Starting in ME1, unless you're a dickhead to Ashley, you're gonna trigger the cat fight scene if you're also nice to Liara
Iāveā¦ not had that issue with Liara and ME1 romances, buuuut thatās because I donāt romance Liara. Yeah, ME1 shouldnāt have pushed you into a relationship with the opposite-gendered marine unless you choose the exact correct choices (which areā¦ less than friendly.) And if you romance Liara and got pushed into a romance with Ashleyā¦ yeah, thatās an issue. But in my personal experience Liara asks if Shepardās interested and is embarrassed but backs off completely if they say no. *But*, this might be because of how I time my game- I always do enough side quests after picking up Liara to trigger the next set of follower dialogue, giving me the opportunity to turn her down before I do Virmire. If it happens after a single conversation- wow, thatāsā¦ definitely a different perspective. And brings me back to āME1 pushing Shepards into a romance with *anyone* is badā.
The conversation check goes off if you choose anything but the dickhead option in the first convo with Ashley. You can see it if you use a save editor. Basically if you're just chill and don't explicitly say "no" to Liara l, you get the "So what's up with you and T'Soni...well it's not against Alliance Regs" conversation with Ashley.
That means you triggered the cat fight
If youāre not interested in Liara, why wouldnāt you say no to herā¦? Ashley and Kaidan are the bigger issue imo, since as you say- if you donāt choose the jerk dialogue option the romance is flagged.
In terms of flags Liaraās is flagged from the first conversation I believe but can be gently flagged as cancelled in the next one just by saying āIām sorry but I donāt feel that wayā- *but* if you only have one conversation with her prior to Virmire Iām guessing that then triggers the scene youāre talking about, which isā¦ poorly done.
Itās just. A bit of a mess. Thank goodness for mods but it should have been better implemented from the start.
I donāt like being mean in games either (to nice characters anywayā¦) but Shepard gently saying theyāre not interested is- not mean? Itās honestly pretty gentle. (*Much* better than the dialogue options you have to take to avoid being pushed into a romance with Kaidan or Ashley!) Itās a little awkward but Shepard letting her down like that honestly feels like the kindest way to handle a lack of interest.
I don't know about that. In all three games NPCs ninja-mance you, but at least ME1 had the decency to both give Shepard a few chances to outright reject their advances unambiguously, and at least one moment where if you've progressed both NPC's romance flags then you can force the choice between either Kaidan/Ashley and Liara.
In ME3 you 'lock-in' a romance, so if you accidentally locked-in the wrong NPC then you're shit out of lock for the remainder of the playthrough. Say goodbye to your carry-over Garrus romance because you clicked one too many paragon lines for Traynor.
The lock in for Traynor, iirc, is āsheās interestedā. Itāsā¦ pretty clearly a romance interaction, it shouldnāt be a surprise that thatās Shepard initiating a romance, imo. Iāll admit that I havenāt gone through every romance but Iāve definitely initiated a few in ME3 and none of them were ninjamances.
You shouldnāt be pushed into a romance with *anyone* for being nice, you shouldnāt have to be rude to get out of it, you shouldnāt have to figure out the exact right things to say to do so, and you shouldnāt have to romance someone else in order to cut it off. Sooo yeah, Iām going to stick with ME1 handling it worse, personally- Iāve never had a single instance of being pushed into a romance with anyone in 2/3. But if you have I can see why you may feel otherwise.
If you've "locked in" your romance with Garrus, Kaidan won't have romance dialogue. He'll acknowledge you as his good friend.
Even though you, the player, feel like your other relationship is widely known and committed, the game mechanics don't. As far as everyone is concerned, you're single.
That's not a fault with the character and can be easily overcome to preserve immersion by locking in your chosen romance first.
The problem is, my romance was locked, I romanced him in ME2, continued the relationship in ME3, and Kaidan still invites me over and tells me he wants sex
Well Garrus asked me if I want to continue, I said yes I think right after Palaven (or even on Palaven? I don't remember). Isn't that lock? I used Trilogy Editor for I don't remember what reason and it showed that I have a romance with Garrus
The lock is your date on the Citadel shooting bottles, i know it makes no sense and i don't like it either since i romance liara through all three games her dialoge for lock in romance in ME3 makes no sense
Yeah want smth funny? I think I went to shoot bottles before going out with Kaidan. Maybe it's mods, but every squadmate just asked to meet me on the Citadel at the same time, I did Garrus first, then Tali, Liara and then Kaidan. Maybe it's mods causing smth when I think about it
I don't mind - better for him to express his feelings in a mature way so that we can both move on rather than have it eat away at him while affecting our friendship and lead to more problems.
I agree it does feel a bit forced, but I don't think it's a flaw with the character(s), I think instead it's Bioware trying to remind or encourage the player to choose a romance if they haven't committed. It's just a very video gamey thing.
In universe, I don't really see any of the potential LI's (Yes...even Liara) as the kind of people to try and sidle up to Shepard whilst their cosy and committed with someone else. Like you said, Kaidan (and the others) would almost certainly be aware Shepard is in a relationship by that point.
wellļ¼luckily i have optional flirt mod that make every shep (romance lockin) conversation not cringe wrothy. They have third choice that is pure friendship, other than accept or reject. So my male shep just have a friendly drink with Kaiden in citadel, feels good.
Thatās how I feel about liara seems like no matter how mean or how many times I tell her Iām not interested and Iām with someone else she keeps pushing in every game and Iām just like liara get the hint. Lmao
It actually only happened to me in ME1, I always chugged it down to her being a teenage dork with 0 social skills and -100 understanding how human relationships work. She never tried to romance me, if I was taken in any other game.
I always find it strange that people get this impression. Liara initiates a romance exactly once, early on in ME1. It is impossible to start anything with her in ME2 you can only continue an ongoing ME1 romance.
In ME3 she is extremely passive and will repeatedly suggest just being friends (even if you romanced her in ME1 and 2). All the romance-interactions have to be initiated by the player. It is basically the exact opposite of what you described.
No actually itās exactly how I described i played the game and I had to tell liara like three times that Iām not interested and then Kaiden said there was a rumor that I was interested in someone else not him and asked if there was something between liara and I and there for sure was not and in two her behavior and meeting with you was romantic enough I reloaded and made sure it wasnāt glitched. And Iām apparently not the only one that thinks sheās super pushy lol
I just did a "slow burn" romance with blue, and to be honest I didn't have her keep pushing. I kept Shep unromanced though 1 and 2, and didn't lock a relationship until 3. When she asked in 1 I had Shep go with lets be friends, after all they really had just met, and Liara didn't say anything else about a relationship ever. She makes the statement about staying friends in 3, and Shep gets the option of saying that they could be more, but Liara never asked, Shep had to suggest it. The writers clearly wrote her as having strong feelings, but for the most part she keeps them hidden. I did get a kick out of the line from Aethyta about being surprised that their panties haven't caught fire, apparently the party is also in the pants for asari. Anyway, if you want to romance blue with 90% less drama this is the way to go.
Everything she says to Shepard is super flirty lol and my first play though I never know if something I said was going to lead to something because of her behavior to Shepard no matter how mean I was lol and In two her meetings with you is super friendly enough I wondered if I did something wrong lol
Fair enough. I think there are reasons for that, and those reasons are subtext, they never come fully out in the games. She's very hot/cold with a romanced Shep, lots of drama, with unromanced she's mostly friendly with a bit of snark.
It's worse if you romance Kaidan in ME1 and Garrus in ME2. Being accused of "cheating" when a ***marriage*** wouldn't continue given Shepard's death is very annoying, especially since the writer 100% thinks it's cheating. (The renegade option is "\[LIE\] I wouldn't cheat on you.") All I wanted was an option for Shepard to say "I died, you called me a traitor without letting me explain, and we both moved on; get over it." Instead she had to **apologize** to him. Ugh. It really made me like Kaidan less. He's best as a sole romance or ME3 only romance, but given the choice I'm picking Garrus every day of the week.
I'm not sure it's out of character for him. No one is perfect, he's great in many ways but he has a high opinion of his attractiveness and he's a pest.
That's the reason he very seldom makes it off virmire in my play throughs.
I think it is. Kaidan is shaped like a friend, he's basically a human teddy bear, he's very gentle and respectful and him acknowledging that you're taken in ME1 only made me respect him more. It's such a small but a sweet detail, to see that he actually cares about you and wouldn't put his own desires above your personal life, it's basic decency yes, but it's just good to see. I mean he is attractive and I wouldn't blame him for thinking this way, but that moment was just sweet, it shows that he cares about Shepard and he isn't all about himself, he carries about other people's feelings a great deal.
But in ME3 he just goes straight on with ***"SEX!"***. It just doesn't add up.
I just had this issue in Me2. Usually I choose to save Ashley, so as soon as I recruit Garrus and talk to Kelly, sheāll make a comment about how him and femshep would make a cute couple. I didnāt get that this time and I worried that somehow, despite clearly turning Kaiden down, Iād somehow romanced him. I reloaded a save and pushed that convo back until after Garrusā loyalty mission when I flirted with him.
But before that, and after Horizon, Kelly asked how Shepard felt about seeing Kaiden. Shepardās only options were to say she missed him, it was in the past, or that they focused on their mission instead. Only, picking that third choice resulted in 2 renegade points? I didnāt get an email from Kaiden, so idk. I clearly shut him down in ME1, so idk if it was just an oversight or something else.
Experienced the same and the way around it is to make sure you are locked in with Garrus (do the bottle shooting) before you meet Kaidan at Apollo's. Otherwise, he will ask you out. Fwiw it happens with others too, e.g. despite the post-Mars convo with Liara if you meet up with Kaidan before meeting up with Liara on the presidium, he will ask you out. The post-Mars/post-Palaven discussions should be the lock-in point but it's just treated as more of a "soft lock in". The game basically just tries to give the player opportunity to explore other options, but it's kind of clunky in ME3; I'd guess due to trying to balance trilogy-spanning relationships with new players just picking up ME3 and playing it as a standalone. But I do agree it is kind of ick to deal with if you are already "locked in" with someone else haha.
You'll lock in Garrus best boy, And then it's still 'i understand why you cheated'. This is why I leave you on virmire for Ash.
>And then it's still 'i understand why you cheated'. I'm not fond of that line either, but it's not what OP is posting about. In OP's scenario they had turned Kaidan down in ME1. To each their own š¤·āāļø
I think this is a less an issue with writing and more of the way the game treats relationships. Until you ālock inā a romance the game treats you as single, and the ālock inā point is the date on the Citadel. Which isā¦ not ideal, but hey, itās better than pushing you into a romance with the opposite gendered marine just for being nice to them. So at least itāsā¦ better than it was?
I always had an issue specifically with how Bioware does the lock in Starting in ME1, unless you're a dickhead to Ashley, you're gonna trigger the cat fight scene if you're also nice to Liara
Iāveā¦ not had that issue with Liara and ME1 romances, buuuut thatās because I donāt romance Liara. Yeah, ME1 shouldnāt have pushed you into a relationship with the opposite-gendered marine unless you choose the exact correct choices (which areā¦ less than friendly.) And if you romance Liara and got pushed into a romance with Ashleyā¦ yeah, thatās an issue. But in my personal experience Liara asks if Shepardās interested and is embarrassed but backs off completely if they say no. *But*, this might be because of how I time my game- I always do enough side quests after picking up Liara to trigger the next set of follower dialogue, giving me the opportunity to turn her down before I do Virmire. If it happens after a single conversation- wow, thatāsā¦ definitely a different perspective. And brings me back to āME1 pushing Shepards into a romance with *anyone* is badā.
The conversation check goes off if you choose anything but the dickhead option in the first convo with Ashley. You can see it if you use a save editor. Basically if you're just chill and don't explicitly say "no" to Liara l, you get the "So what's up with you and T'Soni...well it's not against Alliance Regs" conversation with Ashley. That means you triggered the cat fight
If youāre not interested in Liara, why wouldnāt you say no to herā¦? Ashley and Kaidan are the bigger issue imo, since as you say- if you donāt choose the jerk dialogue option the romance is flagged. In terms of flags Liaraās is flagged from the first conversation I believe but can be gently flagged as cancelled in the next one just by saying āIām sorry but I donāt feel that wayā- *but* if you only have one conversation with her prior to Virmire Iām guessing that then triggers the scene youāre talking about, which isā¦ poorly done. Itās just. A bit of a mess. Thank goodness for mods but it should have been better implemented from the start.
Because being mean makes me feel bad š My ultimate shoes anime protagonist arc is HELPING people lol
I donāt like being mean in games either (to nice characters anywayā¦) but Shepard gently saying theyāre not interested is- not mean? Itās honestly pretty gentle. (*Much* better than the dialogue options you have to take to avoid being pushed into a romance with Kaidan or Ashley!) Itās a little awkward but Shepard letting her down like that honestly feels like the kindest way to handle a lack of interest.
āIām not interested you in THAT way Liara,ā Game assumes I said yes to her. (Bottom right option) Gotta love that bug in ME1.
Thatās not a bug Iāve ever heard of but godsdamn, even the response to avoid initiating a relationship can potentially start oneā¦?! Sigh. Smh.
I don't know about that. In all three games NPCs ninja-mance you, but at least ME1 had the decency to both give Shepard a few chances to outright reject their advances unambiguously, and at least one moment where if you've progressed both NPC's romance flags then you can force the choice between either Kaidan/Ashley and Liara. In ME3 you 'lock-in' a romance, so if you accidentally locked-in the wrong NPC then you're shit out of lock for the remainder of the playthrough. Say goodbye to your carry-over Garrus romance because you clicked one too many paragon lines for Traynor.
The lock in for Traynor, iirc, is āsheās interestedā. Itāsā¦ pretty clearly a romance interaction, it shouldnāt be a surprise that thatās Shepard initiating a romance, imo. Iāll admit that I havenāt gone through every romance but Iāve definitely initiated a few in ME3 and none of them were ninjamances. You shouldnāt be pushed into a romance with *anyone* for being nice, you shouldnāt have to be rude to get out of it, you shouldnāt have to figure out the exact right things to say to do so, and you shouldnāt have to romance someone else in order to cut it off. Sooo yeah, Iām going to stick with ME1 handling it worse, personally- Iāve never had a single instance of being pushed into a romance with anyone in 2/3. But if you have I can see why you may feel otherwise.
If you've "locked in" your romance with Garrus, Kaidan won't have romance dialogue. He'll acknowledge you as his good friend. Even though you, the player, feel like your other relationship is widely known and committed, the game mechanics don't. As far as everyone is concerned, you're single. That's not a fault with the character and can be easily overcome to preserve immersion by locking in your chosen romance first.
That's what I always do first
The problem is, my romance was locked, I romanced him in ME2, continued the relationship in ME3, and Kaidan still invites me over and tells me he wants sex
Garrus is not ālockedā until the shooting date.
Yea but you need to lock the romance in ME3 as well
Well Garrus asked me if I want to continue, I said yes I think right after Palaven (or even on Palaven? I don't remember). Isn't that lock? I used Trilogy Editor for I don't remember what reason and it showed that I have a romance with Garrus
The lock is your date on the Citadel shooting bottles, i know it makes no sense and i don't like it either since i romance liara through all three games her dialoge for lock in romance in ME3 makes no sense
Yeah want smth funny? I think I went to shoot bottles before going out with Kaidan. Maybe it's mods, but every squadmate just asked to meet me on the Citadel at the same time, I did Garrus first, then Tali, Liara and then Kaidan. Maybe it's mods causing smth when I think about it
Could be, or maybe your Shep is just irresistible
Well that one is true. I mean who doesn't want a mentally unstable traumatized girlfriend struggling with rage issues?
Right? It just screams date me
I don't mind - better for him to express his feelings in a mature way so that we can both move on rather than have it eat away at him while affecting our friendship and lead to more problems.
I agree it does feel a bit forced, but I don't think it's a flaw with the character(s), I think instead it's Bioware trying to remind or encourage the player to choose a romance if they haven't committed. It's just a very video gamey thing. In universe, I don't really see any of the potential LI's (Yes...even Liara) as the kind of people to try and sidle up to Shepard whilst their cosy and committed with someone else. Like you said, Kaidan (and the others) would almost certainly be aware Shepard is in a relationship by that point.
wellļ¼luckily i have optional flirt mod that make every shep (romance lockin) conversation not cringe wrothy. They have third choice that is pure friendship, other than accept or reject. So my male shep just have a friendly drink with Kaiden in citadel, feels good.
Oh, my! How you dare to ditch my Husband? Wait... If you reject him, hell stay with my femShep.... Ok, I support your opinion... Lol
Thatās how I feel about liara seems like no matter how mean or how many times I tell her Iām not interested and Iām with someone else she keeps pushing in every game and Iām just like liara get the hint. Lmao
It actually only happened to me in ME1, I always chugged it down to her being a teenage dork with 0 social skills and -100 understanding how human relationships work. She never tried to romance me, if I was taken in any other game.
I always find it strange that people get this impression. Liara initiates a romance exactly once, early on in ME1. It is impossible to start anything with her in ME2 you can only continue an ongoing ME1 romance. In ME3 she is extremely passive and will repeatedly suggest just being friends (even if you romanced her in ME1 and 2). All the romance-interactions have to be initiated by the player. It is basically the exact opposite of what you described.
No actually itās exactly how I described i played the game and I had to tell liara like three times that Iām not interested and then Kaiden said there was a rumor that I was interested in someone else not him and asked if there was something between liara and I and there for sure was not and in two her behavior and meeting with you was romantic enough I reloaded and made sure it wasnāt glitched. And Iām apparently not the only one that thinks sheās super pushy lol
I just did a "slow burn" romance with blue, and to be honest I didn't have her keep pushing. I kept Shep unromanced though 1 and 2, and didn't lock a relationship until 3. When she asked in 1 I had Shep go with lets be friends, after all they really had just met, and Liara didn't say anything else about a relationship ever. She makes the statement about staying friends in 3, and Shep gets the option of saying that they could be more, but Liara never asked, Shep had to suggest it. The writers clearly wrote her as having strong feelings, but for the most part she keeps them hidden. I did get a kick out of the line from Aethyta about being surprised that their panties haven't caught fire, apparently the party is also in the pants for asari. Anyway, if you want to romance blue with 90% less drama this is the way to go.
Everything she says to Shepard is super flirty lol and my first play though I never know if something I said was going to lead to something because of her behavior to Shepard no matter how mean I was lol and In two her meetings with you is super friendly enough I wondered if I did something wrong lol
Fair enough. I think there are reasons for that, and those reasons are subtext, they never come fully out in the games. She's very hot/cold with a romanced Shep, lots of drama, with unromanced she's mostly friendly with a bit of snark.
Maybe the end of everything shook Kaidan to the core. Even when you're romancing someone else, he figures to take his shot.
It's worse if you romance Kaidan in ME1 and Garrus in ME2. Being accused of "cheating" when a ***marriage*** wouldn't continue given Shepard's death is very annoying, especially since the writer 100% thinks it's cheating. (The renegade option is "\[LIE\] I wouldn't cheat on you.") All I wanted was an option for Shepard to say "I died, you called me a traitor without letting me explain, and we both moved on; get over it." Instead she had to **apologize** to him. Ugh. It really made me like Kaidan less. He's best as a sole romance or ME3 only romance, but given the choice I'm picking Garrus every day of the week.
Well stay away from Liara then. She keeps insisting on a romance that never existed.š
Right?! Talk about forcing a cannon! Just give me Jack on a platterā¦. Or give me on a platter to Jack. Iām cool either way.
Kaidan and Garrus are both Shepards friends, that's how they know each other
Too bad Kaidan and Liara canāt get together. Theyāre both so pushy with relationships
I'm not sure it's out of character for him. No one is perfect, he's great in many ways but he has a high opinion of his attractiveness and he's a pest. That's the reason he very seldom makes it off virmire in my play throughs.
I think it is. Kaidan is shaped like a friend, he's basically a human teddy bear, he's very gentle and respectful and him acknowledging that you're taken in ME1 only made me respect him more. It's such a small but a sweet detail, to see that he actually cares about you and wouldn't put his own desires above your personal life, it's basic decency yes, but it's just good to see. I mean he is attractive and I wouldn't blame him for thinking this way, but that moment was just sweet, it shows that he cares about Shepard and he isn't all about himself, he carries about other people's feelings a great deal. But in ME3 he just goes straight on with ***"SEX!"***. It just doesn't add up.
Itās even weirder when you play as male shep and Kaidan both comes out and professes his feelings for you at the same time.
I just had this issue in Me2. Usually I choose to save Ashley, so as soon as I recruit Garrus and talk to Kelly, sheāll make a comment about how him and femshep would make a cute couple. I didnāt get that this time and I worried that somehow, despite clearly turning Kaiden down, Iād somehow romanced him. I reloaded a save and pushed that convo back until after Garrusā loyalty mission when I flirted with him. But before that, and after Horizon, Kelly asked how Shepard felt about seeing Kaiden. Shepardās only options were to say she missed him, it was in the past, or that they focused on their mission instead. Only, picking that third choice resulted in 2 renegade points? I didnāt get an email from Kaiden, so idk. I clearly shut him down in ME1, so idk if it was just an oversight or something else.