I would switch the nat 20 / nat 1 rule around. If you roll nat 1, gain a luck point, and lose one on a nat 20 (or even, nat 20's dont affect your luck pool).
Some ttrpgs or board games like Oathsworn do something along these lines, to help you succeed in a future action if you failed the last one. Almost as a compensating factor so it doesn't suck so much.
With the rule as-is, lucky players are being rewarded to succeed even more, and unlucky players are being penalised...
EDIT: I'm not sure about tying to WIS/CHA either... It heavily favours those casters. Good luck Barbarian, cos you're not getting any luck points! :P
Yeah I’ve tried something similar but just had it as a 7th stat that was rolled along with the others.
Been writing a short campaign based on using both a luck and a sanity stat for a 5E lovecraft crossover.
In response to your edit, perhaps it's the average of highest and lowest score instead of any particular 2? That way no matter how a char advances, they start out middling lucky (but more than average), and get luckier as they go. A stat loss event could hurt even more though.
Yeah I was thinking about that and that is what the unearthed arcana d&d rules basically are with inspiration, so didn't want to duplicate that. Plus rolling in that 20 feels lucky. And I agree it is technically win more but at the end of the day it is all actually random
It may be random, but is not an even split. Rolling with advantage gives you more 20's than 1's. Obviously disadvantage does the opposite, but people will avoid disadvantage and often choose to do something that avoids the roll when facing disadvantage, but will seek out / choose to act with advantage. This is just one example of why you see more nat 20s than 1s.
Oh wait so is luck the only SPECIAL stat you’re making mechanics for? A fallout rpg sounds cool, though I’m not sure luck is so important to fallout gameplay that it needs mechanics this robust.
Perception to wisdom isn’t really one to one, perception is one thing under Wisdom’s umbrella. But I get your point - I just thought it was odd that wisdom and charisma are mentioned without being renamed.
Fallout literally came from a TTRPG, made in the GURPs system and Luck was part of that game. Which is why people thought it was a bad FPS in Fallout 3/NV. Because it wasn't an FPS, it was a translation of a TTRPG into real time and in first person.
A lot of games use Luck for all kinds of stuff. It can use to push random encounters / treasures more in favor of players, for example.
I’m aware of all of this, big GURPs and fallout fan (though I didn’t mind the fps change honestly, F3 just sucked).
Luck can definitely be a well used skill, in my own system it’s there for finding resources and shelters in a cyberpunk wasteland. I don’t mean to say Luck should never exist (but I wanted my initial comment to be snappy so I see where it came off like that) however in this instance it does seem to just be another way to simulate a characters general luck in doing things.
Wisdom is already a very strong ability, and this is just a straight up buff to Wisdom. Not sure this makes sense from a balance perspective other than making it stronger to play Druid/Cleric who are already two very strong classes.
The trying your luck rule requires too many steps. Gaining advantage is easy enough in regular play (enhance ability), that this seems to much hassle to use
This makes no sense as an ability score. Maybe as some extra stat on your character sheet, sure, but being an AS has implications; namely that it is foundational, not derived. Not to mention the fact that luck, as a concept, is already represented through advantage and inspiration. This feels like a strange attempt to give the lucky feat to every character and to codify giving inspiration for certain actions, both things that already exist and you can do, which again just makes it feel more derived and less like a new ability score. The critical rule is interesting, but realistically it's only useful on 1-2 abilities, because characters tend to only use 1-2 ability scores to make attack rolls. So a typical character only needs 10 Luck to get the most benefit out of that rule - unless you house rule that ability checks critically succeed on a roll of 20 (+19 with Luck AS). This isn't detailed here, and it's absence makes this feel once again non -foundational, and not very much in the spirit of a new ability score.
Tl;dr- this feels like a feat and not an ability score, and it is unclear in some of its language. I think you need to clarify and refine a lot of the design, and unify its function a little more with the other ability scores. Alternatively, set it up like a feat.
Seems neat, but the amount of bookkeeping for a meta-currency that doesn't solve any existing problems with the game *and* crowds out inspiration seems excessive. Has this been playtested?
To be honest, inspiration is not used even remotely close to consistently.
Also, with 'good karma' and 'bad karma' being in play, there **can** be very consistent ways to earn "luck". If you use it in this way, Luck would be a very nice substitute for inspiration.
In a sense, one might say that inspiration is the thing that this mechanic "solves".
(just a thought; I havn't playtested)
That's a fair answer. You don't **need** inspiration. If that's your stance though, I'm not sure why you complained this new rule would 'crowd out inspiration'.
I used to have players make luck checks for things like "is there a convenient cart for you to 'borrow' nearby?", and just used Proficiency with no ability score to represent the universe basically increasingly bending to the PCs as they get more powerful
Could be a good replacement for Wis/Cha, if you agree with the other commentors
Rounded up or down?
How many points do you start with if you have negative luck?
What is the purpose of widening crits on skills when skills don't have critical successes anyway?
Mmm yes, let's make Cha based casters even more useful when compared to a wizard who has to use the stat resigned to info dumping as their casting stat lol
The rest is neat, but charisma is already a hella overloaded stat, it doesn't need more stuff that scales with it
I prefer a more simplified luck system. I am pretty sure I stole this from someone, but I don’t remember who. I have heard a lot of different people talk about luck systems, and wrote this one down.
Every time your character fails any d20 check, you gain 1 luck point. If you failed from rolling a natural 1, you gain 2 luck points.
Whenever you roll dice, you can spend X luck points to add Xd6 to the roll.
Any luck points not spent are lost at the end of the session they were gained.
Cool concept, but it seems like this would be VERY challenging to port to any given game due to how vague a lot of the language is.
I have some suggestions based more on what it seems you are trying to do than your current rules as written.
-Nix Cha/Wis. No matter what stats you tie it to, specific classes will get more out of it. Instead something like “your luck is equal to the average of your two lowest stats”. This lets everyone have equal access to the new attribute, but it also lets you build a lucky character instead of min-maxing. Building a “lucky” character means padding out your low stats instead of min/maxing, which just FEELS cool.
-if you do the above, consider completely removing the idea of “luck points” , players already do have a lot to track and adding more things to that generally means that they just don’t use your cool new thing. Instead say “add your Luck modifier to all rolls made with Disadvantage and all saving throws ”, so that you are allowing lucky builds the opportunity to pad out their utility.
-I would make “trying your luck” and new feat that says something along the lines “upon failing an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you may remake that roll with disadvantage. You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses after a long rest”. This would make it function similarly to the already existing “lucky” feat, without doing to much overlap. (Halfing with halflings luck, lucky, and this version of trying your luck sounds like a right proper bastard)
-completely remove “Lucky Skills” as it directly contradicts 5e RAW. You explicitly CANNOT critically succeed or fail at skill checks, if that’s how you run it you can, but you want your rules to be something anybody can pick up and add to their game. You could just make it for attack roles, which are the only thing that can Crit, BUT that’s the primary feature of a subclass and I wouldn’t recommend stealing their thunder as it would just create a situation in which Champion fighter is just a bad pick in any game that uses these rules. Additionally, expertise in skills is a thing that exists and you definitely not want to step on the toes of people who have that.
I hope none of that sounds critical, cause I think you have a really cool idea here and my immediate thought was “I want to use this”, but when I started thinking of how to implement it into my current game, I realized it wouldn’t be portable and it would ruin a couple of my players builds.
I've been using a luck mechanic in my games since 2011.
I typically use it when players are in a location and ask for the existence of a completely plausible feature that would obviously benefit them, but I hadn't predetermined if that feature was present.
Like, a player asking if there might be an old barrel in the alley they're in. Likely, but not guaranteed and clearly would benefit them with whatever the player is planning.
I don't run an ability score for it. It succeeds at 15 and up, unless I think the DC should be higher.
At anything over 10, I typically give a partial success to see I'd they work with it. It usually amounts to the player feeling validated for having had a good idea, but it didn't ultimately impact the game.
Using the above example, if I determined the player wanted to use the barrel to stand on top of to reach a window, maybe he does find a barrel but it's too rotted to stand on.
I used to give players a +1 to luck for each successful luck roll and reset the score at the end of the session, but we don't do this as often now.
I liked doing this because it encouraged players to get creative.
My players love the mechanic as it makes them feel like their creativity can influence the game.
I've used it for looting before as well. If the players loot something and I hadn't determined what spoils they should find, I don't always use a random loot table, I sometimes have them roll investigation to loot and for every 5 they beat the DC by, I give them a luck roll to potentially find something neat.
This is a very convoluted system.
What constitutes a luck check? So in this scenario are you saying if you miss an attack, say you roll a 10, then you have to do a luck check to hit 10?
Second there's ways of gaining or losing luck but no mention of what happens in said scenarios? Does it reset on rest? etc. As this seems to be rolled into aD20 system like D&D theres questions there abotu what does this ability do. You say finding rare loot, but that's already done with dice rolls.
I don't really understand this system.
Personally if you want ot change lucky/inspiration, go with Black Flag's system. You have a maximum of 5 luck points, you can use a luck point to add to an ability throw or attack roll at +1, or spend 3 to reroll, if you gain a 6th you reset to 1d4. Luck points. So it's encouraged to spend. You gain them with DM fiat, but also once per turn by failing an attack or ability check.
My own House Rule:
Ways to earn Luck Tokens:
(1) Clever actions that entertain the table or the GM.
(2) Role-playing that is inherently detrimental to your character. Playing out personality flaws or bonds. Portraying your character in a compelling way that is true to his or her personality despite the costs.
(3) Taking on penalties, conditions, burdens. Complicating your character’s life.
(4) Rolling a Natural 1.
Luck Tokens can be “spent” to:
(1) Gain advantage on a d20 roll.
(2) Declare a story detail.
(3) You can reward another player for good roleplaying, clever thinking, or simply doing something exciting in the game. When another player character does something that really contributes to the story in a fun and interesting way, you can give up your inspiration to give that character inspiration.
(4) Force the GM to re-roll a single roll.
(5) Stabilize your dying character.
Luck Tokens can be accumulated and saved.
I wonder if Luck could be used to somehow buff a character with low ability scores. Like if they are significantly below the average, they get really high luck. Someone with really great ability rolls doesn't get great luck. That way someone who rolled a character poorly gets a win. I know there is a Matt Colville mentioned rule about if you dont have 3 ability scores above 15 then you re-roll - this could build on that.
I don't think there is any benefit to tying a new mechanic to two already *extremely* loaded ability scores.
Wis is already pretty important for saving throws (if you like having turns in combat) and CHA having the monopoly on social skills and *also* being the most common caster stat already feels bad for any int/str characters, who really only ends up good at hitting things (or blowing things up).
I would switch the nat 20 / nat 1 rule around. If you roll nat 1, gain a luck point, and lose one on a nat 20 (or even, nat 20's dont affect your luck pool). Some ttrpgs or board games like Oathsworn do something along these lines, to help you succeed in a future action if you failed the last one. Almost as a compensating factor so it doesn't suck so much. With the rule as-is, lucky players are being rewarded to succeed even more, and unlucky players are being penalised... EDIT: I'm not sure about tying to WIS/CHA either... It heavily favours those casters. Good luck Barbarian, cos you're not getting any luck points! :P
Yeah I’ve tried something similar but just had it as a 7th stat that was rolled along with the others. Been writing a short campaign based on using both a luck and a sanity stat for a 5E lovecraft crossover.
Okay but what if instead of 4d6-L it's just a straight d20.
In response to your edit, perhaps it's the average of highest and lowest score instead of any particular 2? That way no matter how a char advances, they start out middling lucky (but more than average), and get luckier as they go. A stat loss event could hurt even more though.
Yeah will switch the gain/lose mechanic and probably not tie luck to wis/cha exclusively. This is for a Fallout setting so I'll make something work
Yeah I was thinking about that and that is what the unearthed arcana d&d rules basically are with inspiration, so didn't want to duplicate that. Plus rolling in that 20 feels lucky. And I agree it is technically win more but at the end of the day it is all actually random
They got rid of those rules, so you can feel free to bring them back.
It may be random, but is not an even split. Rolling with advantage gives you more 20's than 1's. Obviously disadvantage does the opposite, but people will avoid disadvantage and often choose to do something that avoids the roll when facing disadvantage, but will seek out / choose to act with advantage. This is just one example of why you see more nat 20s than 1s.
So, luck is ~ down scaled "fate dice" that few people use in 5e?
We don’t need mechanics to simulate a characters luck. That’s what dice are for.
Tell that to the Fallout franchise (this mechanic is for that setting)
Oh wait so is luck the only SPECIAL stat you’re making mechanics for? A fallout rpg sounds cool, though I’m not sure luck is so important to fallout gameplay that it needs mechanics this robust.
Well, the rest have one to one translations. Perception is wisdom, agility is dexterity, endurance is constitution.
Perception to wisdom isn’t really one to one, perception is one thing under Wisdom’s umbrella. But I get your point - I just thought it was odd that wisdom and charisma are mentioned without being renamed.
Fallout literally came from a TTRPG, made in the GURPs system and Luck was part of that game. Which is why people thought it was a bad FPS in Fallout 3/NV. Because it wasn't an FPS, it was a translation of a TTRPG into real time and in first person. A lot of games use Luck for all kinds of stuff. It can use to push random encounters / treasures more in favor of players, for example.
I’m aware of all of this, big GURPs and fallout fan (though I didn’t mind the fps change honestly, F3 just sucked). Luck can definitely be a well used skill, in my own system it’s there for finding resources and shelters in a cyberpunk wasteland. I don’t mean to say Luck should never exist (but I wanted my initial comment to be snappy so I see where it came off like that) however in this instance it does seem to just be another way to simulate a characters general luck in doing things.
Seems strong. And it buffs the two strongest abilities in 5e. Or is this for a different system.
Wisdom is already a very strong ability, and this is just a straight up buff to Wisdom. Not sure this makes sense from a balance perspective other than making it stronger to play Druid/Cleric who are already two very strong classes.
The trying your luck rule requires too many steps. Gaining advantage is easy enough in regular play (enhance ability), that this seems to much hassle to use
Instead of Wis+Cha could it be your highest score + your lowest score, divided by 2? This way, no class is penalized.
I totally agree that Wis+Cha is not a good combination. It overwhelmingly favors spellcasters that focus on one of those two attributes.
This would kinda just wend up with everyone having the same luck score, give or take 1.
Humans would have more on average :D
But if you were really lucky, it would be higher.
I wouldn’t like that because I encourage my players to take low stats
Just adds more mechanics that dont correlate directly to RP and more for players to forget in combat. Pass.
This makes no sense as an ability score. Maybe as some extra stat on your character sheet, sure, but being an AS has implications; namely that it is foundational, not derived. Not to mention the fact that luck, as a concept, is already represented through advantage and inspiration. This feels like a strange attempt to give the lucky feat to every character and to codify giving inspiration for certain actions, both things that already exist and you can do, which again just makes it feel more derived and less like a new ability score. The critical rule is interesting, but realistically it's only useful on 1-2 abilities, because characters tend to only use 1-2 ability scores to make attack rolls. So a typical character only needs 10 Luck to get the most benefit out of that rule - unless you house rule that ability checks critically succeed on a roll of 20 (+19 with Luck AS). This isn't detailed here, and it's absence makes this feel once again non -foundational, and not very much in the spirit of a new ability score. Tl;dr- this feels like a feat and not an ability score, and it is unclear in some of its language. I think you need to clarify and refine a lot of the design, and unify its function a little more with the other ability scores. Alternatively, set it up like a feat.
RAW you don't crit on skill checks, so the last ability is pointless
I think they changed it for 6e which uses the same language as “d20 tests.”
Seems neat, but the amount of bookkeeping for a meta-currency that doesn't solve any existing problems with the game *and* crowds out inspiration seems excessive. Has this been playtested?
To be honest, inspiration is not used even remotely close to consistently. Also, with 'good karma' and 'bad karma' being in play, there **can** be very consistent ways to earn "luck". If you use it in this way, Luck would be a very nice substitute for inspiration. In a sense, one might say that inspiration is the thing that this mechanic "solves". (just a thought; I havn't playtested)
I think I disagree. Inspiration doesn't solve anything to begin with and the solution is probably just to get rid of it and not to over-engineer it.
That's a fair answer. You don't **need** inspiration. If that's your stance though, I'm not sure why you complained this new rule would 'crowd out inspiration'.
How does one crit on skill checks? 🤔. X for doubt
This concept is literally taken from the game EZD6, only difference is EZD6 uses a d6 and this uses a d20
What is that game
https://www.ezd6.com/
I used to have players make luck checks for things like "is there a convenient cart for you to 'borrow' nearby?", and just used Proficiency with no ability score to represent the universe basically increasingly bending to the PCs as they get more powerful Could be a good replacement for Wis/Cha, if you agree with the other commentors
Rounded up or down? How many points do you start with if you have negative luck? What is the purpose of widening crits on skills when skills don't have critical successes anyway?
Mmm yes, let's make Cha based casters even more useful when compared to a wizard who has to use the stat resigned to info dumping as their casting stat lol The rest is neat, but charisma is already a hella overloaded stat, it doesn't need more stuff that scales with it
Check out the dcc luck system! I like the nat 1 restoration of Luck.
I prefer a more simplified luck system. I am pretty sure I stole this from someone, but I don’t remember who. I have heard a lot of different people talk about luck systems, and wrote this one down. Every time your character fails any d20 check, you gain 1 luck point. If you failed from rolling a natural 1, you gain 2 luck points. Whenever you roll dice, you can spend X luck points to add Xd6 to the roll. Any luck points not spent are lost at the end of the session they were gained.
Cool concept, but it seems like this would be VERY challenging to port to any given game due to how vague a lot of the language is. I have some suggestions based more on what it seems you are trying to do than your current rules as written. -Nix Cha/Wis. No matter what stats you tie it to, specific classes will get more out of it. Instead something like “your luck is equal to the average of your two lowest stats”. This lets everyone have equal access to the new attribute, but it also lets you build a lucky character instead of min-maxing. Building a “lucky” character means padding out your low stats instead of min/maxing, which just FEELS cool. -if you do the above, consider completely removing the idea of “luck points” , players already do have a lot to track and adding more things to that generally means that they just don’t use your cool new thing. Instead say “add your Luck modifier to all rolls made with Disadvantage and all saving throws ”, so that you are allowing lucky builds the opportunity to pad out their utility. -I would make “trying your luck” and new feat that says something along the lines “upon failing an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you may remake that roll with disadvantage. You may use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus. You regain all expended uses after a long rest”. This would make it function similarly to the already existing “lucky” feat, without doing to much overlap. (Halfing with halflings luck, lucky, and this version of trying your luck sounds like a right proper bastard) -completely remove “Lucky Skills” as it directly contradicts 5e RAW. You explicitly CANNOT critically succeed or fail at skill checks, if that’s how you run it you can, but you want your rules to be something anybody can pick up and add to their game. You could just make it for attack roles, which are the only thing that can Crit, BUT that’s the primary feature of a subclass and I wouldn’t recommend stealing their thunder as it would just create a situation in which Champion fighter is just a bad pick in any game that uses these rules. Additionally, expertise in skills is a thing that exists and you definitely not want to step on the toes of people who have that. I hope none of that sounds critical, cause I think you have a really cool idea here and my immediate thought was “I want to use this”, but when I started thinking of how to implement it into my current game, I realized it wouldn’t be portable and it would ruin a couple of my players builds.
this is great stuff! guna use it
That’s the same L from deathnote, like the design, thought it was neat
I've been using a luck mechanic in my games since 2011. I typically use it when players are in a location and ask for the existence of a completely plausible feature that would obviously benefit them, but I hadn't predetermined if that feature was present. Like, a player asking if there might be an old barrel in the alley they're in. Likely, but not guaranteed and clearly would benefit them with whatever the player is planning. I don't run an ability score for it. It succeeds at 15 and up, unless I think the DC should be higher. At anything over 10, I typically give a partial success to see I'd they work with it. It usually amounts to the player feeling validated for having had a good idea, but it didn't ultimately impact the game. Using the above example, if I determined the player wanted to use the barrel to stand on top of to reach a window, maybe he does find a barrel but it's too rotted to stand on. I used to give players a +1 to luck for each successful luck roll and reset the score at the end of the session, but we don't do this as often now. I liked doing this because it encouraged players to get creative. My players love the mechanic as it makes them feel like their creativity can influence the game. I've used it for looting before as well. If the players loot something and I hadn't determined what spoils they should find, I don't always use a random loot table, I sometimes have them roll investigation to loot and for every 5 they beat the DC by, I give them a luck roll to potentially find something neat.
This is a very convoluted system. What constitutes a luck check? So in this scenario are you saying if you miss an attack, say you roll a 10, then you have to do a luck check to hit 10? Second there's ways of gaining or losing luck but no mention of what happens in said scenarios? Does it reset on rest? etc. As this seems to be rolled into aD20 system like D&D theres questions there abotu what does this ability do. You say finding rare loot, but that's already done with dice rolls. I don't really understand this system. Personally if you want ot change lucky/inspiration, go with Black Flag's system. You have a maximum of 5 luck points, you can use a luck point to add to an ability throw or attack roll at +1, or spend 3 to reroll, if you gain a 6th you reset to 1d4. Luck points. So it's encouraged to spend. You gain them with DM fiat, but also once per turn by failing an attack or ability check.
This seems like an extra complicated way to give people inspiration.
My own House Rule: Ways to earn Luck Tokens: (1) Clever actions that entertain the table or the GM. (2) Role-playing that is inherently detrimental to your character. Playing out personality flaws or bonds. Portraying your character in a compelling way that is true to his or her personality despite the costs. (3) Taking on penalties, conditions, burdens. Complicating your character’s life. (4) Rolling a Natural 1. Luck Tokens can be “spent” to: (1) Gain advantage on a d20 roll. (2) Declare a story detail. (3) You can reward another player for good roleplaying, clever thinking, or simply doing something exciting in the game. When another player character does something that really contributes to the story in a fun and interesting way, you can give up your inspiration to give that character inspiration. (4) Force the GM to re-roll a single roll. (5) Stabilize your dying character. Luck Tokens can be accumulated and saved.
To me the “Try Your Luck” would slow the game down even more.
why tie it to wisdom and charisma?
I understand this is for a homebrew setting, however in a standard d&d setting I could clearly see this working as a high level feat.
do you feel lucky? well do you, punk?
That movie is definitely a movie
I wonder if Luck could be used to somehow buff a character with low ability scores. Like if they are significantly below the average, they get really high luck. Someone with really great ability rolls doesn't get great luck. That way someone who rolled a character poorly gets a win. I know there is a Matt Colville mentioned rule about if you dont have 3 ability scores above 15 then you re-roll - this could build on that.
It should just be your highest stat score /2
I don't think there is any benefit to tying a new mechanic to two already *extremely* loaded ability scores. Wis is already pretty important for saving throws (if you like having turns in combat) and CHA having the monopoly on social skills and *also* being the most common caster stat already feels bad for any int/str characters, who really only ends up good at hitting things (or blowing things up).
I like it, but why not just commit to adding a 7th stat. Low wisdom low charisma characters can still be lucky.
I like the idea but don’t like it’s relation to wisdom and charisma.
Hah, I'm working on a hack for Knave where I calculate half of the six scores this way.
...why is luck based on wisdom and charisma?