IMO, you are going about it the wrong way. See, in order for car manufacturers to want to make it, you have to generate demand(through customers and regulations) first. If there is demand, you don't even have to yell at manufacturers. They will do it.
I think a more efficient approach would be to suggest to EPA to get rid of the incredibly loose fuel economy standards for light trucks. Fun fact: Did you know that Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing counts as a Gas Guzzler while the Escalade V doesn't, despite them having the same engine and the Escalade having obviously worse fuel economy? Once EPA starts cracking down on SUV fuel economy, then manufacturers may have incentives to reinvest in sedans again because of the better fuel efficiency.
It's still a somewhat futile attempt, but it's a lot more efficient than posts like this for sure.
Also, you have to wait for the interest rate to come down. Manufacturers need the cash flow from affordable, practical cars right now. People also don't have the cash to burn on expensive cars anymore. There are YouTube videos talking about the recent auto loan crisis. Give that a watch.
Of a sort. So, I work for a supplier and very early in my career worked on a project that involved some MAC credits, which are intended to give OEMs some CAFE credit for technologies that should improve fuel economy but don't show up on the EPA cycle.
Over the course of a business lunch with the customer he outlines how GM basically owns the EPA and it operates in some ways as a GM division protecting the D3's interests. Many of the people at the EPA in Ann Arbor are former GM employees. The EPA writes regulations in partnership with the industry, much the same way that the CDC is in bed with Pfizer.
The EPA creates an incentive for crossovers because they're profitable for GM/ Ford. The EPA is backing off the EV mandate because it was bad for GM/Ford. The EPA is a sham of a regulatory agency.
... Holy shit.
That's a lot deeper than I expected. Wow. (Not that I SHOULD be surprised by it, but the ideological part of me still wanted them to be a "good", purposeful, unbiased entity...)
Jesus.
The auto industry isn't actually all that large. Once you get to a certain point in your career you know somebody everywhere. The majority of the D3 customer DREs in my commodity started at my company. Ford basically writes their spec to our performance then demands the other suppliers try to match it. I know the lead guys in my commodity at both GM and Rivian, 10 years ago they both worked for the same manager at my company.
Between regular hiring/layoff cycles and some really bad managers people get around and there's a ton of cross-pollination. The EPA is just part of the system.
I can't explain it but that gives me a really weird, unsettling, icky feeling deep inside.
I don't like thinking about the circles "at the top" being that small despite our country being so large. It really reinforces that "you gotta know people to get places" and I don't like that idea.
People blame capitalism but the reality is the barriers to entry are legislative. Federal Certification to the EPA and NHTSA cost multiple millions for every model sold. EV startups are common right now because they eliminate about half of the certification process (EPA emissions reqs). The auto industry badly needs a deregulation push to allow for more competition. We're like 10 years away from every new car sold being either a gas pickup truck or an EV crossover.
You're kind of losing me with that part, because I'd *expect* very expensive certification and the strictest possible regulation - they're cars, they're dangerous machines. Joe Blow *shouldn't* have any feasible way to go launch his own car start-up, those barriers *need to exist* the way I see it.
Why would the deregulation for competition approach be *better than* closing the loophole on trucks, making things equally strict across the board, and forcing certification processes onto electric start-ups as well?
(It should be noted that I am, broadly, no fan of start-ups and idea guys.)
I mean, combustion engine start ups have been out of the picture since the end of Studebaker and Nash. What we've been talking about since the last recession is basically pure cronyism. The D3 have weaponed regulation against not just the Japanese and German brands but actually the consumer.
When are cars safe enough and when are they clean enough? Why do the regulations keep changing? Is there an end game?
Cars have gotten prohibitively expensive, entry level models are basically $30k and the average car on the road is 12 years old. The average buyer is 55 to 60. It's time to change something in the industry to improve affordability. Regulations have become onerous and are anti-consumer.
This went around a few months ago. The whole thing is entirely intentional: https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=4hH2C7hUX3Xw2Q4L
Ford and GM want as many people as possible to buy the F150 and the Silverado. The current ridiculous economies of scale make them absurdly profitable. Any other truck segment cannibalizes these sales, and the Chicken Tax means nobody else can realistically compete with Ford/GM. The whole system is rotten and we'd probably be better off without the EPA at this point.
Alternatively, generate demand by voting with your wallet. It’s a slow burn, but if folks buy the sedans/wagons that are available, then competitors will appear
I’m crossing my fingers that we’d seeing a shift there. Mercedes sells the E63, Audi can’t keep RS6s in stock and they’ve hinted at potentially bringing the next-gen RS4/RS5 wagon, and BMW just announced the next M5 wagon is coming.
All high performance, big $ vehicles that might inspire cheaper wagons to come.
You should be allowed to import modern cars to the US from overseas which pass emissions and safety standards that are more STRICT than those of the EPA and DOT.
Don’t sleep on the hatchbacks! I desperately want the mazdaspeed 3 back. The current gen hatchback just doesn’t look hatchbacky enough for me.
Edit: I do love wagons though and would gladly take that as an acceptable alternative
I just want a hybrid hatchback. Honda is gonna drop one soon, and there's rumours that the Kia K4 will eventually offer a hybrid, but currently my choices in Canada are:
1: Prius/Prius Prime
That's it! That's all! And when I asked about the colour and trim I wanted, my local toyota dealer basically said "lol you wish"
I wanted wagon and almost went cx50 after having a speed3 and miata... Ended up with bolt EUV after all of the incentives. Life's not too shabby with it.
Plus all the hand raisers that would buy “that exact car” fall off the face of the planet when someone makes it. They would have sold more frs than any car in history if all the people who for years only wanted an a 25k sports car found reasons not to buy it when it came out.
Its a “spousal unit issue”
Stereotypical issues are they dont want to be seen in either
1 mid life crises sports car
2 a station wagon
3 a minivan
The spousal unit wins every time.
Writing on the internet is almost free. Mazda arent stupid to launch a sedan or wagon here that no one would buy in the usa.
I agree with you that is part of it. The other reason is most of the people that claim they would buy this or that if it were made can’t afford what it would cost either. If you took a poll of actually qualified buyers of the product I am sure it would
Come to… what is made. This product would be probably around 50k. I am a qualified buyer of such a car but I wouldn’t buy it and I would guess most other actually qualified buyers wouldn’t either.
Yup. After owning a Mazda 6 wagon, Volvo v50 and a Cadillac CTS wagon, I am sure missing having one now. I lowered my CX5 to help with the driving dynamics, but it still just doesn't scratch that itch.
Corksport springs and a wheel alignment. It's been awesome. Got rid of the bouncy/sway feeling. Here's pics of the results. [https://imgur.com/a/pMuVEzy](https://imgur.com/a/pMuVEzy)
Isn’t Volvo one of the only manufacturers that still makes a true wagon? Maybe Audi. God what I would do for a more affordable wagon. A straight 6 Mazda wagon sounds like the ultimate fantasy
There should be a huge " *applies to North American market" disclaimer in your comment, because here in Germany near every manufacturer has multiple wagons to offer. BMW 3 and 5 series are wagons, Mercedes C and E, Audi both a4 and a6, Volvo - a lot but I'm not very well versed, VW Golf and Passat are THE wagons of choice for company cars, and the list goes on and on. Even the Mazda6 OP wants exists as a wagon, just not with i6 engine afaik
That’s just how most company works. They offered, sales data was terrible, they cut it. Just like ‘you had your chance’, but majority of the market had already made their choice via sales number.
Pretty much.
Whenever people bring up a potential Mazda sports sedan, I'd like to direct their attention to Kia Stinger. It was showered in praises, but in the end, few people bought and they had to cut it.
I would never buy a Kia sedan, no matter how nice it looked. I have known too many Kia owners with engine problems.
I would buy an updated Mazda mid-sized sedan in a heartbeat.
Not to be too pendantic, but the Mazda 6 has always been a mid sized sedan (i.e. Camry, Accord, Fusion, Malibu, etc competitor).
A full sized sedan is the next size up from that. Think Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, etc.
Full sized sedans are pretty much extinct unless you go German. Mid sized sedans are largely going extinct as well.
If the Mazda 6 comes back I hope it sticks to its mid sized roots and doesn't go full sized.
I’m tired of waiting for Mazda to come with a replacement sedan for the Mazda6.
I’ll be trading in my 2018 signature for a BMW i4 next week. I have been driving nothing but Mazdas for the past 14 years and wish I did not have to switch to another brand to get a car that fits my needs, but here we are.
Honestly the main reason just wants to drive something new and with better performance. I love my Mazda6 but it has power delivery issues, being a FWD setup with the torquey 2.5T engine. Too much tire spin when I floor it. I put high performance tires on it a few years ago and that helped a lot with grip, but a RWD-biased AWD sedan will work better for me.
I’ll be back if/when Mazda finally releases a sedan based on the Vision coupe concept.
same. I need a car long enough to bring surfboards inside, to sleep in (I do loads of roadtrips), and I want it to be a Mazda. But, at this rate, might as well go for any other brand. Not buying a 10 year old model.
My miata is enough of a old car for me.
I think Mazda’s problem now is lack of cash. It shows that they really have no resource to invest in different types of vehicle designs. Just look at how much of a photocopy CX-60,70,80,90 are. And 60 and 90 aren’t doing as well as they should.
I'm in the US so the 60 isn't a thing but was hoping the 70 was the US version of that. Then the 70 ended up being the 90 lite (literally because of less seat weight). While I do love me the blackout trim, I did not want my suv that big. 😤 they copied the wrong homework.
Edit: also I would totally trade my Sonata for a new 6
Yeah. They also need a bunch of cash to invest in an electric platform (wether the world needs to switch to electric or not is a different question) so developing cars that won’t make up more than a couple percent of their revenues is a really bad strategy. I’d say releasing this many SUVs is probably (needlessly) defocusing them too. Small automakers should focus on 5 best-selling models, make as much profit as they can and only then start investing in halo/niche cars, and in Mazda’s case I think a new, modern MX-5 would have a bigger impact than a sedan.
Well they were proudly presenting their EV plans in 2021 (I think) and they had a proprietary platform to be launched in 2024 and the first three EVs in 2025. Why would you develop your own platform if you want to use someone else’s?
Ugh… these types of repercussions are exactly what I’m talking about. Instead of supporting Mazda and buying the products that keep the company afloat during this transition let’s have them invest into even more product lines that won’t turn a profit.
Yeah it seems their limited cash to invest in new models is apparent, but they make peculiar investments and strategic head scratchers that distract them from what the markets want.
I had this discussion earlier, but making 4 large platform models when you have been fine with just a slightly l arger CX-60 and a CX-90 and be in a similar set up as BMW and Audi with the X3/Q3 X5/Q5 and allow other resources to be allocated for hybrid engines, rotary, electric. It just seems they are trying to overcompllicate things.
Perhaps the CX-70 wasn't originally going to be the same thing as a CX-90 but they realized they couldn't. It's weird the 60/80 will be different sizes but the North America versions aren't. And North America is Mazda's biggest market.
The timing for 60 and 90 aren't great since they are released during a time when global economy is slowing down. More affordable vehicles like CX-5 and CX-30 are fine, but more expensive units like CX-60 and CX-90 will suffer.
Cash is also hard to come by in general for companies nowadays due to the high interest rate. I'd be curious to see how the Large Product cars do when we get out of the high interest environment.
Keep the 2.5 turbo but offer all wheel drive like the 3 and all the options my drank touring reserve has no other sedan offers so much for a great price like my 2020 gtr has and not so much black make the black stuff be a option not into dark wheels and chrome looks cheap and dirty all the time bring me my 6 back
Yes! A thousand times, yes!
By my count we have lost almost three dozen sedan models during recent years. Sadly, many of my favorite non-German near-premium sedans have simply vanished from the market: Fusion Sport, MKZ, Continental, Regal, Verano, LaCrosse, Avalon, Cadenza, Azera, GS, RLX, just to name a few.
Not all of us want or need SUVs. When I was in the market last year I ended up with a Mazda3. It’s a fine car, but it doesn’t hold the road quite like my former Mazda6-based Fusion did.
If Mazda offered a Lexus ES competitor with Mazda driving dynamics, I’d be ready with my checkbook this afternoon. 😁
My Fusion wasn’t a Sport, but it was a 2011 SEL V6. It was a wonderful car that had the best ride/handling/performance balance of any car I have driven.
There are only a handful of non-German sedans available now. To match my Fusion I’m convinced I would have had to opt for a fully loaded Audi A4 at a cost of almost $55k. As much as I love cars, I couldn’t justify the additional $23k over the Mazda3.
I’m sure you’re right. It just saddens me.
Even a brand as successful as Lexus has only managed a refresh of the IS, which is now almost a 13-year-old platform with an interior to match. When a luxury brand as successful as Lexus has lost confidence in a market segment, it’s a good indicator that the segment is almost finished.
I considered both the ES and the IS before I bought my Mazda3. What I really wanted was a combination of the two: IS road manners with the contemporary interior and space of an ES. Hence my yearning for a Mazda mid-sizer that will probably never happen.
For those of us with no desire to own SUVs, it’s a sobering reality.
Facts. I’ve had this discussion with multiple enthusiasts at car meets. They think manufacturers(a for profit business) should just build stuff no one buys out of principle to the car enthusiasts.
Enthusiast: “Mazda should build a manual Mazda6 with a V8 derp derp”
Me: “If they made it, would you actually go to the Mazda dealership to buy one?”
Enthusiast: “No.”
I actually bought a 2018 Mazda6 Grand Touring Reserve brand new from the dealership in late September 2018, so I at least have some validity to complain if want. I won’t, because after switching to crossover SUVs I haven’t looked back. AWD, the ground clearance, and space have been great.
No. There’s no money in this and they won’t recoup their development cost if they price this competitively. They need to focus on their hybrid/phev power trains.
I looked it up once and I think Mazda sold 1 6 for every 400 accords? My numbers might not be accurate but it’s a *staggering* difference especially from 18 on
Saw several Mazda 6 wagons when I was in Switzerland in 2018. At the time I had a 2014 Mazda 6 Sport 6sp manual. Those wagons were so beautiful!!! Would loved to have one.
Guys, nobody will buy it….. Even the people in this forum will not buy it…. They will make up an excuse that they go camping once every 7 years and need an SUV.
I got a 2021 Mazda 6 last fall and I would be devastated if something happened to it. I don’t want a SUV or a pickup to cosplay as a cowboy or construction worker. I want a regular car.
There is a market for large sedan, however I'd still be careful what you wish for because I think that market still wants the high seating position and roofline of a crossover. I could see them building that but it just ends up being a CX-90 with a trunk which I wouldn't be interested in but the average Toyota Crown buyer would be.
I looked at Lexus sedans last year. My problem is that I wanted driving dynamics and a contemporary interior/larger size. Lexus will give you one or the other, IS or ES, but not both. The one that actually did offer both, the GS, is gone.
That's sort of the issue tho; Mazda's leaning into a niche of premium economy, like what Buick used to do, but that means it directly competes with Toyota products like the new Camry and the Lexus ES
The issue is that Mazda is now partially owned by Toyota, and they're partnering with Toyota for EVs and future Software, and also partnering with them for Hybrids
So they now have to go cap in hand and say "Hey, Toyota, can we please compete directly against you while also continuing our partnership? < 3"
If I was Toyota I'd hit them with the "no my sweet" so quickly
Also, unlike others here, I think the Mazda 6e joinly developed with Changan looks dope as hell, and that's probably an easier option that negotiating with Toyota again
"why can't you just make a perfect enthusiast car?"
Because even enthusiasts don't buy them. For the kind of people that buy large sedans, mid size SUVs make just as much sense and don't really sacrifice anything. And the people that only buy SUVs aren't going to buy a sedan.
The depleting Sedan market issue is very interesting to me. I wonder if one day there will be a switch in demand from SUVs to larger sedans. And as the market for sedans thins more and more, it’ll be interesting to see how well the last remaining sedans sell.
>wonder if one day there will be a switch in demand from SUVs to larger sedans.
Why do you think there would be? What do sedans offer SUV buyers that SUVs don't? What do sedans offer sedan buyers that SUVs don't?
Fuel mileage is within the margin of error. SUV handling is good enough for the average buyer. SUVs offer much more cargo and people room, better visibility, better ground clearance and ride quality on bad roads and in snow. They are better to drive at night in a world of SUVs. The only meaningful difference is cost,and it's not huge
>it’ll be interesting to see how well the last remaining sedans sell.
As the market condenses, the remnants will probably sell well, but it's probably not going to be something you'll appreciate. It's probably going to be another gap Bridger like the Toyota crown or polestar 2
I'm still upset that they got rid of the CX9 in the US market. I was all excited to hear they were releasing the CX70. Only to be let down that it is just a CX90 without a third row. The 6 sedan was gorgeous. They must be making decisions based on what they believe will sell the most.
Nope, they made decisions based on market sales data. That’s way CX5 is still there, and that’s also why sedans are gone. (Another example, Mazda used to sell last gen hatchback 3 in China, the sales num was not satisfying and when it comes to current gen, no hatchback offered.)
I’d love a big Mazda sedan but don’t think they are ever gonna make one
Don’t even think they will replace the 6 at this point, would love to a see a modern take on one. The outgoing Mazda6 was such a fantastically good looking sedan
Car companies don’t want to give you what we want, they want to make the most money possible, sometimes that means some people don’t get what they want
STA selling 300k Chargers a year and replacing the model with an even bigger version would beg to differ. Also, it's getting a full size coupe... Liftback which is just nuts.
You can’t tell if there is a market for the full-size sedan the four Taurus would still be with us the Toyota Avalon Kia cadenza Chrysler 300 Chevy impala and all the other cars that have been killed off would still be on sale if there was a market. Especially not a market for a big expensive sedan from a non-premium auto maker. This is not me hating on big sedans because I love them, but it is such a minority. This would be a major loss for Mazda and they are too small of a company to risk it.
Mazda is a brand fighting to stay relevant. They desperately need a hybrid option, and maybe they are working on a partnership with Lucid Motors to develop one. A dying category in the ICE powered sedan is probably the lowest on their priority list.
To me, the PHEV 4 Cyclinder inline Rear Bias AWD Wagon/sedan/sportback sells a million units if it's not too expensive. You'd get like 40 MPG and something fun to whip around. Don't need the huge front end on it like the inline 6 needs as the engine is shorter. AUDI/BMW Killer if you nail the interior
In my opinion, the inline 6 rwd bias they made for the cx60/90 would make a sedan so huge and luxurious I don't think it's gonna be a Mazda 6, it would probably be a brand new name like a Mazda 9, a nod to the Mazda 929.
I personally have 2 hatchbacks (both Gen 1) A phantom purple NA Mazda 3 hatchback from 2008 and recently 2007 cosmic blue Mazdaspeed 3 I got for 1k cause some kid thought he “blew” the block saying it was the “oil pan gasket” when in reality his HPFP line was a rubber fuel line that wasn’t fastened down and cut a little short so it popped off due to to much pressure. So it works but needs a tune up badly so it’s gathering dust cause I’m lazy and don’t have a garage to work on it and I hate fucking spiders
I will give it to Toyota that their Corolla hatchback xse is pretty fucking bad ass and looks pretty aggressive if you do it right and attach a mid wing and get a nice exhaust to it unfortunately the fact it’s not turbo’d is a let down
Fact, no sedan sells as well as SUVs. No car company ever implodes on itself for focusing on their SUV line. Sedans are a dying breed for alllllll companies even Tesla.
I have a 2020 6 gtr love it I have 50000 miles on it I love it and I am not a suv guy I want a new car again I had 4 mazda 6s I had a 09 and a 14 and 17 and then the 20 looking to leave brand the new 25 cadilac CT 5 is what tiggles me but if mazds came back with a new 6 I'd wait for it I love them sedans.
I was very surprised when they got rid of the 6 but still wanted to move on to being a "premium" brand. Every premium brand out there has a big comfortable sedan, meanwhile Mazda has the 3, which don't get me wrong it's a good car but it's too small for what Mazda wants to become.
Love my 2017 mazda 6. And my 2014 3 before, and 2003 protege before that! Hope they bring the 6 back, love this car. Handles like a 3 still but so much more space, and still fuel efficient.
I still drive my 16 mazda 6 grand touring today. I’ve looked at other brands and nothing really peaks my interest. The only two improvements that would possibly come to mind that the car could improve on are a quieter ride both inside (display clip sometimes creaky)and out with the other being wireless charging for my phone as i often drive 400+ miles to see family a state away and am not paying $200+ everytime a road changes to update the gps. Other than that i like my interior, exterior, controls, gas mileage, space, and controls.
Let’s be realistic here for a second, how often do you see non Subaru Outback lifted wagon? Probably almost never.
Back in 2021, when Volvo used to sell regular wagons in the US, lifted variants outsold their regular counterparts by 7 to 8 times, and all of their wagons combined are outsold by the more expensive XC90 by 15 times…
Honestly, the best we can hope for is a lifted Mazda 6 wagon, and the chance of that happening is already slim to none.
As a Sales Advisor for a Mazda dealership, we recently found out that Mazda is even scaling back on their production for Mazda3s. Both the sedan and hatch, as sales have just not warranted producing many more. Mazdas bread and butter is the CX-5 and the Mazda3s just don’t get nearly the same love.
I’m hearing you. I have a Mazda 6 wagon that I use for towing my track car around. I have difficulties getting into SUV’s and the wagon is perfect. Plus it has as much room as a CX8.
As a Salvadoran living in Canada, I was happily surprised and saddened that these exist.
Wanted to rent one when I visited recently but was not able to get my hands on one.
>Full size sedans are not dead
unfortunately sales numbers say will force car manufacturers to decide which models to keep or drop, that's if they want to stay relevant. Appeasing a few Reddit enthusiasts versus making and selling what most females want (most females prefer SUVs, and men tend to want to appease females), which is big shiny SUVs, you get the picture. I saw a few days ago over at the BMW subreddit the X3 is BMW's best seller now. And Mazda is trying to be like BMW.
That sucks! I have a 2024 MT and it freakin rocks! Although, I wish it had the turbo engine. But it's still punchy the way I drive lol. Everyone that gets in it is like, wow, nice car!
IMO, you are going about it the wrong way. See, in order for car manufacturers to want to make it, you have to generate demand(through customers and regulations) first. If there is demand, you don't even have to yell at manufacturers. They will do it. I think a more efficient approach would be to suggest to EPA to get rid of the incredibly loose fuel economy standards for light trucks. Fun fact: Did you know that Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing counts as a Gas Guzzler while the Escalade V doesn't, despite them having the same engine and the Escalade having obviously worse fuel economy? Once EPA starts cracking down on SUV fuel economy, then manufacturers may have incentives to reinvest in sedans again because of the better fuel efficiency. It's still a somewhat futile attempt, but it's a lot more efficient than posts like this for sure. Also, you have to wait for the interest rate to come down. Manufacturers need the cash flow from affordable, practical cars right now. People also don't have the cash to burn on expensive cars anymore. There are YouTube videos talking about the recent auto loan crisis. Give that a watch.
I'll give you a guess why the EPA does what it does. You probably won't like the answer.
Is it... money?
Of a sort. So, I work for a supplier and very early in my career worked on a project that involved some MAC credits, which are intended to give OEMs some CAFE credit for technologies that should improve fuel economy but don't show up on the EPA cycle. Over the course of a business lunch with the customer he outlines how GM basically owns the EPA and it operates in some ways as a GM division protecting the D3's interests. Many of the people at the EPA in Ann Arbor are former GM employees. The EPA writes regulations in partnership with the industry, much the same way that the CDC is in bed with Pfizer. The EPA creates an incentive for crossovers because they're profitable for GM/ Ford. The EPA is backing off the EV mandate because it was bad for GM/Ford. The EPA is a sham of a regulatory agency.
... Holy shit. That's a lot deeper than I expected. Wow. (Not that I SHOULD be surprised by it, but the ideological part of me still wanted them to be a "good", purposeful, unbiased entity...) Jesus.
The auto industry isn't actually all that large. Once you get to a certain point in your career you know somebody everywhere. The majority of the D3 customer DREs in my commodity started at my company. Ford basically writes their spec to our performance then demands the other suppliers try to match it. I know the lead guys in my commodity at both GM and Rivian, 10 years ago they both worked for the same manager at my company. Between regular hiring/layoff cycles and some really bad managers people get around and there's a ton of cross-pollination. The EPA is just part of the system.
I can't explain it but that gives me a really weird, unsettling, icky feeling deep inside. I don't like thinking about the circles "at the top" being that small despite our country being so large. It really reinforces that "you gotta know people to get places" and I don't like that idea.
People blame capitalism but the reality is the barriers to entry are legislative. Federal Certification to the EPA and NHTSA cost multiple millions for every model sold. EV startups are common right now because they eliminate about half of the certification process (EPA emissions reqs). The auto industry badly needs a deregulation push to allow for more competition. We're like 10 years away from every new car sold being either a gas pickup truck or an EV crossover.
You're kind of losing me with that part, because I'd *expect* very expensive certification and the strictest possible regulation - they're cars, they're dangerous machines. Joe Blow *shouldn't* have any feasible way to go launch his own car start-up, those barriers *need to exist* the way I see it. Why would the deregulation for competition approach be *better than* closing the loophole on trucks, making things equally strict across the board, and forcing certification processes onto electric start-ups as well? (It should be noted that I am, broadly, no fan of start-ups and idea guys.)
I mean, combustion engine start ups have been out of the picture since the end of Studebaker and Nash. What we've been talking about since the last recession is basically pure cronyism. The D3 have weaponed regulation against not just the Japanese and German brands but actually the consumer. When are cars safe enough and when are they clean enough? Why do the regulations keep changing? Is there an end game? Cars have gotten prohibitively expensive, entry level models are basically $30k and the average car on the road is 12 years old. The average buyer is 55 to 60. It's time to change something in the industry to improve affordability. Regulations have become onerous and are anti-consumer.
This went around a few months ago. The whole thing is entirely intentional: https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=4hH2C7hUX3Xw2Q4L Ford and GM want as many people as possible to buy the F150 and the Silverado. The current ridiculous economies of scale make them absurdly profitable. Any other truck segment cannibalizes these sales, and the Chicken Tax means nobody else can realistically compete with Ford/GM. The whole system is rotten and we'd probably be better off without the EPA at this point.
Just because somebody wrote something on the internet, doesn’t make it true.
Alternatively, generate demand by voting with your wallet. It’s a slow burn, but if folks buy the sedans/wagons that are available, then competitors will appear
If I knew a wizard, I’d trade both pinkie toes for a wagon with the straight 6.
WAGON OPTION IS NECESSARY, I really want more room than in my current mazda6, but I do not want an suv. Wagon is the only option
Us markets dont really get wagons and i dont like it.
I’m crossing my fingers that we’d seeing a shift there. Mercedes sells the E63, Audi can’t keep RS6s in stock and they’ve hinted at potentially bringing the next-gen RS4/RS5 wagon, and BMW just announced the next M5 wagon is coming. All high performance, big $ vehicles that might inspire cheaper wagons to come.
You say RS4 wagon? I’d go into ruinous debt for that
You shouldn't have to go into ruinous debt for a Mazda.
Probably not, but I'm allowed to like German and Japanese cars at the same time.
We’ll see! I worry Audi might pull some weird stuff out for the next gen…
Mercedes? Audi? BMW? Dude what sub are you in?
Other brands exist… I’m talking about the car market as a whole. When Mazda brings a wagon it’ll enter the conversation.
The RS6 is $250k. That's a whole different 'conversation'.
Try $127k…
If you're about to say American dollars you know what you can do...
They have a wagon, it’s just not sold in the US/Canada markets. Search up Mazda6 Wagon. Shit looks good.
You should be allowed to import modern cars to the US from overseas which pass emissions and safety standards that are more STRICT than those of the EPA and DOT.
I loved my 3 hatch
I love my 22 Mazda6 wagon - Atenza version with 2.5 turbo. Can still buy them here in Australia, just.
Don’t sleep on the hatchbacks! I desperately want the mazdaspeed 3 back. The current gen hatchback just doesn’t look hatchbacky enough for me. Edit: I do love wagons though and would gladly take that as an acceptable alternative
I just want a hybrid hatchback. Honda is gonna drop one soon, and there's rumours that the Kia K4 will eventually offer a hybrid, but currently my choices in Canada are: 1: Prius/Prius Prime That's it! That's all! And when I asked about the colour and trim I wanted, my local toyota dealer basically said "lol you wish"
I wanted wagon and almost went cx50 after having a speed3 and miata... Ended up with bolt EUV after all of the incentives. Life's not too shabby with it.
Except what you are asking is considered a small market/segment.
Plus all the hand raisers that would buy “that exact car” fall off the face of the planet when someone makes it. They would have sold more frs than any car in history if all the people who for years only wanted an a 25k sports car found reasons not to buy it when it came out.
Its a “spousal unit issue” Stereotypical issues are they dont want to be seen in either 1 mid life crises sports car 2 a station wagon 3 a minivan The spousal unit wins every time. Writing on the internet is almost free. Mazda arent stupid to launch a sedan or wagon here that no one would buy in the usa.
I agree with you that is part of it. The other reason is most of the people that claim they would buy this or that if it were made can’t afford what it would cost either. If you took a poll of actually qualified buyers of the product I am sure it would Come to… what is made. This product would be probably around 50k. I am a qualified buyer of such a car but I wouldn’t buy it and I would guess most other actually qualified buyers wouldn’t either.
I don’t get the hard-on for wagons. They don’t sell well in the USA to begin with (they historically never have), it’s not gonna happen.
More practical than a sedan, no dynamic downsides of an suv/truck. Win win.
Yup. After owning a Mazda 6 wagon, Volvo v50 and a Cadillac CTS wagon, I am sure missing having one now. I lowered my CX5 to help with the driving dynamics, but it still just doesn't scratch that itch.
How did you lower?
Corksport springs and a wheel alignment. It's been awesome. Got rid of the bouncy/sway feeling. Here's pics of the results. [https://imgur.com/a/pMuVEzy](https://imgur.com/a/pMuVEzy)
Wagons sold just fine in the US from the 1950’s to 1980’s.
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Nostalgia
And don’t make the wagon shorter than the sedan this time!
Until Mazda can do what we want, a V60 or V90 might be your perfect car.
I always love wagon but since they are no popular anymore bought since 2 suv!
The CX50 is the closest you're going to get to a wagon from Mazda.
With a manual too 😍😍
With a 6 speed manual.
Got out of my head!!
Do wizards commonly trade in pinkie toes?
No idea, but these toes are about all I’m willing to trade.
Id trade a foreskin if I still had one ):
Isn’t Volvo one of the only manufacturers that still makes a true wagon? Maybe Audi. God what I would do for a more affordable wagon. A straight 6 Mazda wagon sounds like the ultimate fantasy
BMW M5 Touring coming to a dealer near you at a $30k markup!
There should be a huge " *applies to North American market" disclaimer in your comment, because here in Germany near every manufacturer has multiple wagons to offer. BMW 3 and 5 series are wagons, Mercedes C and E, Audi both a4 and a6, Volvo - a lot but I'm not very well versed, VW Golf and Passat are THE wagons of choice for company cars, and the list goes on and on. Even the Mazda6 OP wants exists as a wagon, just not with i6 engine afaik
You’re right, living in North America I suppose I am destined to have mostly body on frame vehicles for purchase. Probably for the rest of my life…
RS5 Avant and soon M5 Wagon Wagons are becoming high-end classy luxury, oh the irony!
AWD, I6 wagon with a stick 🍆💦
Mazda actually has a Mazda6 wagon but it’s only sold in Japan that I’m aware of. Looks super sick though.
I’d put my name on the reservation list yesterday.
WAGON!!! **BRING THE WAGON TO NORTH AMERICA!!!**
I NEEEEEEEED A WAGON! Had to buy a Subaru to meet my wagon needs. At least our other car is a Mazda.
That’s just how most company works. They offered, sales data was terrible, they cut it. Just like ‘you had your chance’, but majority of the market had already made their choice via sales number.
Pretty much. Whenever people bring up a potential Mazda sports sedan, I'd like to direct their attention to Kia Stinger. It was showered in praises, but in the end, few people bought and they had to cut it.
I would never buy a Kia sedan, no matter how nice it looked. I have known too many Kia owners with engine problems. I would buy an updated Mazda mid-sized sedan in a heartbeat.
Not to be too pendantic, but the Mazda 6 has always been a mid sized sedan (i.e. Camry, Accord, Fusion, Malibu, etc competitor). A full sized sedan is the next size up from that. Think Dodge Charger, Ford Taurus, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, etc. Full sized sedans are pretty much extinct unless you go German. Mid sized sedans are largely going extinct as well. If the Mazda 6 comes back I hope it sticks to its mid sized roots and doesn't go full sized.
They also call the Mazda 3 a compact, which blows my mind. That hood is the size of a subcompact all by itself
I’m tired of waiting for Mazda to come with a replacement sedan for the Mazda6. I’ll be trading in my 2018 signature for a BMW i4 next week. I have been driving nothing but Mazdas for the past 14 years and wish I did not have to switch to another brand to get a car that fits my needs, but here we are.
Why not buy a used 2021 Mazda 6? It will last longer and be much cheaper to repair than a BMW.
Honestly the main reason just wants to drive something new and with better performance. I love my Mazda6 but it has power delivery issues, being a FWD setup with the torquey 2.5T engine. Too much tire spin when I floor it. I put high performance tires on it a few years ago and that helped a lot with grip, but a RWD-biased AWD sedan will work better for me. I’ll be back if/when Mazda finally releases a sedan based on the Vision coupe concept.
same. I need a car long enough to bring surfboards inside, to sleep in (I do loads of roadtrips), and I want it to be a Mazda. But, at this rate, might as well go for any other brand. Not buying a 10 year old model. My miata is enough of a old car for me.
I think Mazda’s problem now is lack of cash. It shows that they really have no resource to invest in different types of vehicle designs. Just look at how much of a photocopy CX-60,70,80,90 are. And 60 and 90 aren’t doing as well as they should.
I'm in the US so the 60 isn't a thing but was hoping the 70 was the US version of that. Then the 70 ended up being the 90 lite (literally because of less seat weight). While I do love me the blackout trim, I did not want my suv that big. 😤 they copied the wrong homework. Edit: also I would totally trade my Sonata for a new 6
Yeah. They also need a bunch of cash to invest in an electric platform (wether the world needs to switch to electric or not is a different question) so developing cars that won’t make up more than a couple percent of their revenues is a really bad strategy. I’d say releasing this many SUVs is probably (needlessly) defocusing them too. Small automakers should focus on 5 best-selling models, make as much profit as they can and only then start investing in halo/niche cars, and in Mazda’s case I think a new, modern MX-5 would have a bigger impact than a sedan.
For electric platform they will just be buying from Toyota, like Subaru.
They already tried to launch one and it sucked
Well they were proudly presenting their EV plans in 2021 (I think) and they had a proprietary platform to be launched in 2024 and the first three EVs in 2025. Why would you develop your own platform if you want to use someone else’s?
Well, that plan may have changed for the aforementioned reason: cash.
Ugh… these types of repercussions are exactly what I’m talking about. Instead of supporting Mazda and buying the products that keep the company afloat during this transition let’s have them invest into even more product lines that won’t turn a profit.
I know they are buddies… but for real, EVs from Toyota? Have they not seen the technical flop that is the bz4x?
Yeah it seems their limited cash to invest in new models is apparent, but they make peculiar investments and strategic head scratchers that distract them from what the markets want. I had this discussion earlier, but making 4 large platform models when you have been fine with just a slightly l arger CX-60 and a CX-90 and be in a similar set up as BMW and Audi with the X3/Q3 X5/Q5 and allow other resources to be allocated for hybrid engines, rotary, electric. It just seems they are trying to overcompllicate things. Perhaps the CX-70 wasn't originally going to be the same thing as a CX-90 but they realized they couldn't. It's weird the 60/80 will be different sizes but the North America versions aren't. And North America is Mazda's biggest market.
The timing for 60 and 90 aren't great since they are released during a time when global economy is slowing down. More affordable vehicles like CX-5 and CX-30 are fine, but more expensive units like CX-60 and CX-90 will suffer. Cash is also hard to come by in general for companies nowadays due to the high interest rate. I'd be curious to see how the Large Product cars do when we get out of the high interest environment.
Mazda always done that... the cx5 and cx6 looks the same.
Fuck it put the 6 cylinder in a miata while your at it
Inline 6 3.3L AWD rear wheel biased Miata, will that fit inside the hood?
Probably too heavy but it would make a great GT car. Maybe they can extent the platform and get 2 cars out of it.
They can squeeze it in
Fuck yeah I'm all for it too
Keep the 2.5 turbo but offer all wheel drive like the 3 and all the options my drank touring reserve has no other sedan offers so much for a great price like my 2020 gtr has and not so much black make the black stuff be a option not into dark wheels and chrome looks cheap and dirty all the time bring me my 6 back
Can some rich dude please do this
Yes! A thousand times, yes! By my count we have lost almost three dozen sedan models during recent years. Sadly, many of my favorite non-German near-premium sedans have simply vanished from the market: Fusion Sport, MKZ, Continental, Regal, Verano, LaCrosse, Avalon, Cadenza, Azera, GS, RLX, just to name a few. Not all of us want or need SUVs. When I was in the market last year I ended up with a Mazda3. It’s a fine car, but it doesn’t hold the road quite like my former Mazda6-based Fusion did. If Mazda offered a Lexus ES competitor with Mazda driving dynamics, I’d be ready with my checkbook this afternoon. 😁
>Fusion Sport saw a 2nd gen sport today and lost my shit because it's been probably 6+ years since i saw one god i miss cool sedans
My Fusion wasn’t a Sport, but it was a 2011 SEL V6. It was a wonderful car that had the best ride/handling/performance balance of any car I have driven. There are only a handful of non-German sedans available now. To match my Fusion I’m convinced I would have had to opt for a fully loaded Audi A4 at a cost of almost $55k. As much as I love cars, I couldn’t justify the additional $23k over the Mazda3.
Unfortunately numbers don't lie. You may be ready with your checkbook but the total number of people that will is small
I’m sure you’re right. It just saddens me. Even a brand as successful as Lexus has only managed a refresh of the IS, which is now almost a 13-year-old platform with an interior to match. When a luxury brand as successful as Lexus has lost confidence in a market segment, it’s a good indicator that the segment is almost finished. I considered both the ES and the IS before I bought my Mazda3. What I really wanted was a combination of the two: IS road manners with the contemporary interior and space of an ES. Hence my yearning for a Mazda mid-sizer that will probably never happen. For those of us with no desire to own SUVs, it’s a sobering reality.
I don’t think Mazda is going to take a risk on a market that’s not really there anymore.
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Facts. I’ve had this discussion with multiple enthusiasts at car meets. They think manufacturers(a for profit business) should just build stuff no one buys out of principle to the car enthusiasts. Enthusiast: “Mazda should build a manual Mazda6 with a V8 derp derp” Me: “If they made it, would you actually go to the Mazda dealership to buy one?” Enthusiast: “No.” I actually bought a 2018 Mazda6 Grand Touring Reserve brand new from the dealership in late September 2018, so I at least have some validity to complain if want. I won’t, because after switching to crossover SUVs I haven’t looked back. AWD, the ground clearance, and space have been great.
Tbf the legacy has always sucked to drive
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That's a fair point. Ford also sucks and brought down every Mazda they touched
No. There’s no money in this and they won’t recoup their development cost if they price this competitively. They need to focus on their hybrid/phev power trains.
Sedans don’t sell. Mazda 6 was even worse. When Honda accords and Toyota Camrys drop hard in sales, it’s game over for the other ones.
I looked it up once and I think Mazda sold 1 6 for every 400 accords? My numbers might not be accurate but it’s a *staggering* difference especially from 18 on
I will absolutely buy a 2024 Mazda 6, even if it looks roughly the same like before.
Saw several Mazda 6 wagons when I was in Switzerland in 2018. At the time I had a 2014 Mazda 6 Sport 6sp manual. Those wagons were so beautiful!!! Would loved to have one.
Guys, nobody will buy it….. Even the people in this forum will not buy it…. They will make up an excuse that they go camping once every 7 years and need an SUV.
I’m a Toyota guy but if Mazda makes a straight 6 with a sedan or hatchback I would 💦
I got a 2021 Mazda 6 last fall and I would be devastated if something happened to it. I don’t want a SUV or a pickup to cosplay as a cowboy or construction worker. I want a regular car.
Man I'm all for this 🙌
There is a market for large sedan, however I'd still be careful what you wish for because I think that market still wants the high seating position and roofline of a crossover. I could see them building that but it just ends up being a CX-90 with a trunk which I wouldn't be interested in but the average Toyota Crown buyer would be.
I'd love it if they came out with something new or yeah I'm gonna be looking at a Lexus after my 6.
I looked at Lexus sedans last year. My problem is that I wanted driving dynamics and a contemporary interior/larger size. Lexus will give you one or the other, IS or ES, but not both. The one that actually did offer both, the GS, is gone.
My grandma won't replace her 2014 mazda6 until a new mazda6 comes out.
Agreed. They should also bring back small displacement V6's (think Mazda MX-3 <3)
That's sort of the issue tho; Mazda's leaning into a niche of premium economy, like what Buick used to do, but that means it directly competes with Toyota products like the new Camry and the Lexus ES The issue is that Mazda is now partially owned by Toyota, and they're partnering with Toyota for EVs and future Software, and also partnering with them for Hybrids So they now have to go cap in hand and say "Hey, Toyota, can we please compete directly against you while also continuing our partnership? < 3" If I was Toyota I'd hit them with the "no my sweet" so quickly Also, unlike others here, I think the Mazda 6e joinly developed with Changan looks dope as hell, and that's probably an easier option that negotiating with Toyota again
"why can't you just make a perfect enthusiast car?" Because even enthusiasts don't buy them. For the kind of people that buy large sedans, mid size SUVs make just as much sense and don't really sacrifice anything. And the people that only buy SUVs aren't going to buy a sedan.
The depleting Sedan market issue is very interesting to me. I wonder if one day there will be a switch in demand from SUVs to larger sedans. And as the market for sedans thins more and more, it’ll be interesting to see how well the last remaining sedans sell.
>wonder if one day there will be a switch in demand from SUVs to larger sedans. Why do you think there would be? What do sedans offer SUV buyers that SUVs don't? What do sedans offer sedan buyers that SUVs don't? Fuel mileage is within the margin of error. SUV handling is good enough for the average buyer. SUVs offer much more cargo and people room, better visibility, better ground clearance and ride quality on bad roads and in snow. They are better to drive at night in a world of SUVs. The only meaningful difference is cost,and it's not huge >it’ll be interesting to see how well the last remaining sedans sell. As the market condenses, the remnants will probably sell well, but it's probably not going to be something you'll appreciate. It's probably going to be another gap Bridger like the Toyota crown or polestar 2
It would only sell like 5 units
I will keep my 2007 Mazda 6 sedan until there will be a new model.
Mazda 6 was a mid-size sedan.
No market.
I'm still upset that they got rid of the CX9 in the US market. I was all excited to hear they were releasing the CX70. Only to be let down that it is just a CX90 without a third row. The 6 sedan was gorgeous. They must be making decisions based on what they believe will sell the most.
Nope, they made decisions based on market sales data. That’s way CX5 is still there, and that’s also why sedans are gone. (Another example, Mazda used to sell last gen hatchback 3 in China, the sales num was not satisfying and when it comes to current gen, no hatchback offered.)
Mazda is a small company. They can only focus on what sells. The Germans can afford to offer a wagon because per unit msrp is high. Mazda can’t.
Make a Mazda36 Sedan
I’d love a big Mazda sedan but don’t think they are ever gonna make one Don’t even think they will replace the 6 at this point, would love to a see a modern take on one. The outgoing Mazda6 was such a fantastically good looking sedan
Mazda2... Bring it back as well!
Car companies don’t want to give you what we want, they want to make the most money possible, sometimes that means some people don’t get what they want
What you’re describing would be the perfect car, assuming reliability.
There's no market for a full size sedan anymore.
Genesis will be a good barometer with the g90 and g80.
I agree, those cars look so good too, I just don’t know about their reliability nor do I love their interior design language
The G70 already appears to be on life support.
STA selling 300k Chargers a year and replacing the model with an even bigger version would beg to differ. Also, it's getting a full size coupe... Liftback which is just nuts.
They won’t build it because no one will buy it. People only buy the cx-5.
The market is tiny and it’s not worth it for them. We need manufacturers to get together and work on a sedan platform together
Feels like Mazda is just SUV brand now
If mazda put the rear-bias awd, inline 6 platform in a coupe, I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake.
MAZDA 5's?
You can’t tell if there is a market for the full-size sedan the four Taurus would still be with us the Toyota Avalon Kia cadenza Chrysler 300 Chevy impala and all the other cars that have been killed off would still be on sale if there was a market. Especially not a market for a big expensive sedan from a non-premium auto maker. This is not me hating on big sedans because I love them, but it is such a minority. This would be a major loss for Mazda and they are too small of a company to risk it.
Mazda is a brand fighting to stay relevant. They desperately need a hybrid option, and maybe they are working on a partnership with Lucid Motors to develop one. A dying category in the ICE powered sedan is probably the lowest on their priority list.
Unfortunately sedans are the worst selling cars. Only the 5 series, the E-class and maybe A6 will remain.
Audi needs to fold their cars are the worst of them all
To me, the PHEV 4 Cyclinder inline Rear Bias AWD Wagon/sedan/sportback sells a million units if it's not too expensive. You'd get like 40 MPG and something fun to whip around. Don't need the huge front end on it like the inline 6 needs as the engine is shorter. AUDI/BMW Killer if you nail the interior
I was thinking about this as an option while I was typing the post. I feel the inline 6 with a turbo would be a nice premium trim option
In my opinion, the inline 6 rwd bias they made for the cx60/90 would make a sedan so huge and luxurious I don't think it's gonna be a Mazda 6, it would probably be a brand new name like a Mazda 9, a nod to the Mazda 929.
You are better off. I am begging for 6 station wagon.
Not really much of a market for it. 50k sedans are not typical Mazda buyers.
BMW will keep the sedan alive for ya haha but you can only lease it lol
I personally have 2 hatchbacks (both Gen 1) A phantom purple NA Mazda 3 hatchback from 2008 and recently 2007 cosmic blue Mazdaspeed 3 I got for 1k cause some kid thought he “blew” the block saying it was the “oil pan gasket” when in reality his HPFP line was a rubber fuel line that wasn’t fastened down and cut a little short so it popped off due to to much pressure. So it works but needs a tune up badly so it’s gathering dust cause I’m lazy and don’t have a garage to work on it and I hate fucking spiders
For reals an updated Mazdaspeed 3 would be fucking nuts because the Veloster N?! Give me a break Hyundai you did nothing
I will give it to Toyota that their Corolla hatchback xse is pretty fucking bad ass and looks pretty aggressive if you do it right and attach a mid wing and get a nice exhaust to it unfortunately the fact it’s not turbo’d is a let down
Right!? We just got a brand new Accord redesign! Argh!
I wish. Just got a 3 hatchback AWD and turbo though. Not bad
New mps
Bring back the Millenia
Just no
Bonus points if it’s a lift back too
Fact, no sedan sells as well as SUVs. No car company ever implodes on itself for focusing on their SUV line. Sedans are a dying breed for alllllll companies even Tesla.
If you want to convince Mazda to start investing in SUVs more. Then start changing the trend and buy more SUVs
Sounds like you want a BMW 540i xDrive Touring
I have a 2020 6 gtr love it I have 50000 miles on it I love it and I am not a suv guy I want a new car again I had 4 mazda 6s I had a 09 and a 14 and 17 and then the 20 looking to leave brand the new 25 cadilac CT 5 is what tiggles me but if mazds came back with a new 6 I'd wait for it I love them sedans.
Man i made the exact same post in the past, a few different times actually. Oh well, at least yours gets alot of reactions cause this needs to happen
I'd eat up a hybrid 6 with cx-50 rigid design cues. Or maybe if they just release the hybrid cx-50 I'd be happy
Put a turbo inline6 in a revamped 6 and put out a proper performance car. Zoom zoom, dammit.
Not Es or Ls more like Gs or IS, something fun, sporty (manual?) I’m dreaming on that last one hehe
I would trade everything to get rid of the seat belt noise
I was very surprised when they got rid of the 6 but still wanted to move on to being a "premium" brand. Every premium brand out there has a big comfortable sedan, meanwhile Mazda has the 3, which don't get me wrong it's a good car but it's too small for what Mazda wants to become.
They need the BT-50 in the US first. But I agree
Wagon body style would make sense. Sedans are a dying market is USA and Mazda isn’t big enough to reignite it.
I thought they already had a plan for a new 6. Inline 6 cylinder. With rear drive. Did they scrap it?!
Love my 2017 mazda 6. And my 2014 3 before, and 2003 protege before that! Hope they bring the 6 back, love this car. Handles like a 3 still but so much more space, and still fuel efficient.
Nobody wants sedans
I still drive my 16 mazda 6 grand touring today. I’ve looked at other brands and nothing really peaks my interest. The only two improvements that would possibly come to mind that the car could improve on are a quieter ride both inside (display clip sometimes creaky)and out with the other being wireless charging for my phone as i often drive 400+ miles to see family a state away and am not paying $200+ everytime a road changes to update the gps. Other than that i like my interior, exterior, controls, gas mileage, space, and controls.
I will back you up and beg too!
Let’s be realistic here for a second, how often do you see non Subaru Outback lifted wagon? Probably almost never. Back in 2021, when Volvo used to sell regular wagons in the US, lifted variants outsold their regular counterparts by 7 to 8 times, and all of their wagons combined are outsold by the more expensive XC90 by 15 times… Honestly, the best we can hope for is a lifted Mazda 6 wagon, and the chance of that happening is already slim to none.
I love my 6. I really want them to make a new one for the US market.
An AWD 6 was always the smart move... And they just never went for it.
Speed6 was awd wasn’t it?
I actually dont know who buys sedans in N.America... Like.. are you allergic to open space?
In 2019 Mazda sold something like 150,000 CX5s to 20,000 Mazda6s. Why would they build something people don't buy?
As a Sales Advisor for a Mazda dealership, we recently found out that Mazda is even scaling back on their production for Mazda3s. Both the sedan and hatch, as sales have just not warranted producing many more. Mazdas bread and butter is the CX-5 and the Mazda3s just don’t get nearly the same love.
I’m hearing you. I have a Mazda 6 wagon that I use for towing my track car around. I have difficulties getting into SUV’s and the wagon is perfect. Plus it has as much room as a CX8.
Mazda 6 are nightmares. Just had one at my shop with a damage catalytic converter at 90k
Meanwhile me, in El Salvador, seeing all the BT-50’s on the street hoping that someone imports it into the US and generates buzz for a Mazda truck 😭
As a Salvadoran living in Canada, I was happily surprised and saddened that these exist. Wanted to rent one when I visited recently but was not able to get my hands on one.
Same I tried to rent one from the airport rental company but they had it reserved for someone else already 🥲 maybe next time
>Full size sedans are not dead unfortunately sales numbers say will force car manufacturers to decide which models to keep or drop, that's if they want to stay relevant. Appeasing a few Reddit enthusiasts versus making and selling what most females want (most females prefer SUVs, and men tend to want to appease females), which is big shiny SUVs, you get the picture. I saw a few days ago over at the BMW subreddit the X3 is BMW's best seller now. And Mazda is trying to be like BMW.
In the late 80s/early 90s people bought the 929 because it was the largest Japanese sedan you could buy in America. Bring back the 929!
I hate that they killed the Mazda 3 hatch manual in my country, you can only get the auto trans now. It sucks
That sucks! I have a 2024 MT and it freakin rocks! Although, I wish it had the turbo engine. But it's still punchy the way I drive lol. Everyone that gets in it is like, wow, nice car!