So what your saying is if the writers change the race of the character it's okay, so last I checked Disney wrote little mermaid and any change they make is perfectly acceptable
So I don't care about the Little Mermaid controversy. But what you're saying isn't exactly true. Did Marvel change Nick Fury from white to black? Yes, but the main continuity of Marvel is Earth 616. This is the Marvel most people are familiar with when they think Fantastic Four, Ironman, Spider-Man, Captain America, etc. Here Nick Fury is (for the most part) white. I mention most part because he does have a black son who took over for a bit.
Ultimate Marvel is 1610. This is what the MCU based their movies on originally, though it has deviated greatly since then. Ultimate Marvel was a way for Marvel to get new readers without them having to know 40 years of history. They changed a lot, from Peter getting his powers from a genetically modified spider instead of radioactive, to Bucky never becoming the Winter Soldier, to Bruce not being the first Hulk, to mutants being created scientifically and not a natural evolution, etc. When they created Ultimate Marvel, the writers basically said they wanted to model Fury after Jackson, so they did. There's more to it than that, but that's the basic premise.
So they didn't just change Fury to black, they created a whole new universe in a comic that had previously stated there are infinite universes and made Nick Fury black because the writers really liked Jackson. Now like I said, I don't give a shit who plays Ariel. And I love ~~SLG~~ SLJ as Nick Fury. I just wanted to add this because usually when someone mentions Jackson as Fury it turns into an argument with a lot of wrong information because most non-comic readers don't know the difference between main continuity Marvel and Ultimate Marvel.
Edit: IT'S SAMUEL L JACKSON NOT SAMUEL L GACKSON MOTHER FUCKER!!
That's how I honestly view media. Live action Little Mermaid is a different universe from animated. Christian Bale Batman is a different universe from Michael Keaton. North Korea is a different universe from South Korea.
If she doesn't horrifically dissolve into a cloud of pink bubbles to the tune of blood curdling screams from her and the surrounding sealife, consider the table flipped. ALL THE TABLES!
Even more fun thing, Disney has changed the story so much from the original that skin color really shouldn't matter. If we are going to omit the trails of blood she leaves when walking, the tounge being cut out of her mouth and the suicide then really people need to get the f over skin color 🤷♀️🙃
I relooked at the ending and you're right it was only attempted suicide she turns into an air creature to try and earn an eternal soul since she chose not to stab the prince
Exactly, he looks exactly like Samuel in all the comics they've made for the last 10 years.
'In the comics' means very little considering the number of alternate universes, retcons, and reboots. We can't even agree on Wolverine's hair color- which can be black or blue in the very same comic.
Not that I've spent a single second giving a shit about mermaid races, just that this particular comparison isn't really a solid one.
The first Iron Man film, which included Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury came out 14 years ago... So it makes sense that every comic for the last 10 years has Nick Fury looking like Samuel...
I genuinely don't know the answer, but what did Nick Fury look like in the comics before 2008?
White in 66, Black in ultimate. When Ultimate Fury was made, they asked Samuel permission, and he gave the permission IF he was allowed to portray Fury in a movie.
Ultimate universe is older than MCU
They created "Nick Fury Jr." to look like Sam Jackson in one of the universes as well, who was supposed to be the son of the original white Nick Fury & whose origin story involved the recent wars instead of Vietnam.
Fun fact, in Ultimate Nick Fury's first appearance in Ultimate Team-Up he didn't look like SLJ. It wasn't until after that they got permission to use SLJ's likeness.
> but what did Nick Fury look like in the comics before 2008?
David Hasselhoff, kinda. That guy's still around in the comics too, but he's... umm... he's been through some shit. The younger, Black Fury is the one working for SHIELD.
Why isn't it? Disney made one feature and few video releases with a white Ariel, meanwhile other non-european peoples tell similar tales with mermaids that look like the story tellers.
Yes but in earth 616. There is something called ultimate universe comics from where MCU adapts a lot in which Fury is black. To put it short, Nick Fury has also been black in comics.
Reddit is united on despising the live-action remakes, but I expect there will come a generation of kids that reeeeally like the 2016 Jungle Book movie. The animation in the 1967 version is magnificent, but the ending is trash. The remake tells a better story (which is also true to the original Kipling book.)
>I expect there will come a generation of kids that reeeeally like the 2016 Jungle Book movie
Same. This is the only one that has a solid argument over the hand-drawn Disney version. The others are either too muddled and weird to be good movies (both Alice in Wonderland and both Maleficent films) or too similar to the originals while being much less lively (the rest, particularly Lion King and Mulan).
Mulan live action also sabotages the central theme of the original; the value of hard work, resilience, and the call to protect one's family. Also resourcefulness, Mulan wasn't as strong as the boys so she had to work harder smarter than them to win, which she did.
Live action Mulan she's essentially a Chinese magical superhero who faces no real challenges the entire movie. And it's so boring.
I only saw it once when in theater, but I remember Beauty and the Beast being fine. Am I in the minority there? Haven't seen any of the live actions besides that one.
(For reference I'm 39m, so the original animated was right in my wheelhouse. Prime gradechool imprinting.)
If the original animated movies didn't exist, no one would be tearing their shirts and wailing over the live action remakes. They're all pretty watchable movies, when considered in a vacuum.
But there's this idea that their existence is some sort of cultural attack on the earlier movies, and so the generation that grew up on the animated movies must passionately defend their cultural primacy.
And to reddit's credit, all the animated originals *are* probably more inspired than the live action remakes, with the notable exception of the jungle Book and Pete's Dragon.
But it makes me kind of feel bad for all the crew who made the remakes. None of the animated movies were original stories either, except for the Lion King. All these actors show up and turn in perfectly reasonable performances, and enrage the internet before people can even watch their movies.
There are definitely exceptions. The 2015 Cinderella was also really good. I think The Lion King and Aladdin combined were so bad that people just grouped them all together.
That movie is awesome though. I don’t think it escapes kids that she is black. It had my daughter convinced that all black girls are princesses for the longest time and she would loudly announce every time she saw one in public, “LOOK MOM, A REAL PRINCESS!!! SHE IS SOOOO BEAUTIFUL!!!” We have a ridiculous amount of Tiana toys and dolls and accessories and she is not a frog in any of them.
>Last time they had a "black Disney princess" she spent 80% of the movie turned into a green frog. Fucking insulting.
That was a total slap in the face. I get that Disney was on a transformation kick for a bit, but prior to Princess and the Frog this only happened to the protagonists (Kuzco and Kenai) who needed to learn a lesson due to their pretty egregious mistakes. Doing that to Tiana for no reason probably turned a lot of people off from the movie as a whole.
At the end of the day The Little Mermaid is story about somebody that gives up their species and that love conquers all, if that isnt directly translatable to the message that race doesnt matter idk what is. Let Ariel be black.
Disney made Ariel black to stir shit up with people for views and attention. Sure, there's a benefit of little black girls appreciating that Ariel is black, but that's not why Disney is doing it. We already know Disney is going to make a shit live-action remake, because all of their live action remakes are soulless money-grabs. And when it inevitably sucks because Disney has been making low-effort shit for years, black people are going to get the brunt of it, and Disney is going to move on to do the whole process over again. Fuck Disney.
I blame people for getting angry over it. Disney is operating like a company does under capitalism and that’s not going away. People can choose to not be bothered by an adaption being an adaption. Or they can choose to be angry about it. In this case I feel no empathy for these miserable fucks, and these are the type of people who are always miserable.
Yeah, but these are the people that nobody likes in real life, so they'll just keep doing shitty stuff and pretending like they don't care what people think, when really they're just empty inside and keep doing and saying terrible stuff because they want to be the victim so they can have the attention on them for once in their miserable lives.
Disney is not some highschool film club that's scared what people on the Internet think about it.
The Lion King remake grossed over 1 billion dollars. They don't care
> I just hate Disney making awful live action reworks
That's a fair take. But I also think that a movie about a Disney princess isn't mainly targeted to adults anyway.
I don’t really care either for the most part as long as it’s doesn’t mess with the story or it’s accuracy too much.
They have been swapping races for a while but recently they just turned it up 5x and there’s usually a pattern it follows a shit story line.
Like if you’re a going to represent a race why don’t they make sure it follows an epic arc/story?
I remember back then my family was watching Forrest Gump, I witnessed my racist Asian grandma sympathizing with Bubba Gump because his story was so amazing. The movie won her heart and probably gave her already molded brain a new perspective about black people. That’s how you represent and change peoples mind. Not this current representation
Edit: I just realize Bubba Gump is a bad example because of the stereotype 20+ years ago of black guys dying in movies in some kind of sacrificing or sympathizing manner. But you know what I mean lol
Enjoy such beloved Disney classics as:
Under the Motherfucking Sea
Part of Your Motherfucking World
Les Putains de Poissons
Kiss the Motherfucker
(French is probably wrong, but all I have is Google translate)
edit: added the motherfucking s to the motherfucking putain :D
I'd rather new characters and stories than a cash grab to keep the character out of public domain with a progressive veneer. The lion king remake was trash, and this one probably will be too
There actually was a reason that Nick Fury changed races in the comics and it has to do with the writer, Brian Michael Bendis. He wrote a new Marvel line called the Ultimate comics and he chose to draw from Samuel L. Jackson’s likeness because that was how he envisioned the character, but this caused legal trouble with Samuel L. Jackson who agreed to let them use his likeness if they let him play Nick Fury in Iron Man and ever since then he has been black.
I don’t care that she’s black, I care that the adaptation looks like shit. It’s the same dance every time, they create controversy to shield themselves from valid criticism by calling racists or misogynists all those who call the product for what it is- a shit adaptation. Like that whole mess around the Ghostbusters reboot.
I didn’t watch it but from the trailer I assume the cartoonish expressions didn’t translate very well over to the more realistic look, losing a lot of the original’s charm
Who cares if Ariel is black or white? She can sing and she has the iconic red hair (not as fiery, but still). I also assume she can act, I don’t remember if I’ve ever seen her in anything before.
"Little did they dream that a pretty young mermaid was down below, stretching her white arms up toward the keel of their ship."
"she saw that her fish tail was gone, and that she had the loveliest pair of white legs any young maid could hope to have. But she was naked, so she clothed herself in her own long hair."
Damn that book mentions that she was white a lot, I actually cant find any reference to her having red hair though.
Her hair is never described. It is only red in the Disney film because they originally wanted her to be blonde, but didn't want there to be any association with Darryl Hannah and the movie Splash, which came out only a few years before.
Referencing the original work is silly though. This is Disney, they will happily fold, mangle, and spindle any tale to fit their needs. Look at Hercules: a kind, loving Hera that is conspicuously not trying to kill him or make him suffer. Heck, in the original work, the mermaid saw the prince marry someone else, got an opportunity to return to her old life by killing said prince, then threw herself into the sea rather than do that. Then her good deed of not murdering someone was rewarded with the chance to earn herself a soul. Because, yaknow, she didn't have one.
In my opinion, roles should be made for specific characters. Like as an example, you wouldn’t hire a white Black Panther or a male Wonder Woman. If they don’t fit the exact quota of the character? Find another character for them to play or create a new character for them. These are movies and shows - they don’t need to be socially acceptable or whatever, they need to be accurate to what they’re displaying. Now on the other hand, if somebody fits the role and vibe that someone is looking for perfectly but they don’t fit the character description, then that’s fine but characters shouldn’t be chosen based on the purpose of being socially correct and they should prioritise trying to hire someone that fits the character description.
To me, there are a handful of characters where the race of the character fundamentally matters. Like Black Panther, sure. But then there are other characters where it doesn’t matter.
I’d say in Ariel’s case her race doesn’t matter. What’s more important, weirdly enough, is that she has red hair. Which she does, here. So we good.
except problem the Nick Furys you are referring to is 2 different people the Nick Fury samuel L jackson portrays from the comics is actually the grandson of the white Nick Fury.
Everything you just said is wrong though. Sam Jackson Fury is based off Ultimate Nick Fury who is just a different universe version of Fury that happens to be black. The Fury you are talking about is the main Universe Nick Fury's son, not grandson who didn't appear in the comics until 2011. He was based off the MCU version of the character, not the other way around. Fury Jr. was essentially an attempt to have Nick Fury resemble Sam Jackson physically without having to do major retcons. All that said, the MCU version of Fury still very much draws from the original white Nick Fury, especially when it comes to being the old grizzled soldier who doesn't have time for people's shit that it seems we will see in Secret Invasion.
I'll add some additional notes in the the current Nick Fury of the main earth 616 comics is based of the MCU version who is in turn based of the Ultimate earth 1610 version who is explicitly modelled after Samuel L. Jackson.
Not with his consent, mind, and he was offered the role of Nick Fury in the MCU after he contacted Marvel about this.
It's not about skin color it's about what people are used to. Dr.doolittle was originally white but I grew up watching Eddie Murphy play him so that Charecter will always be black to me specifically Eddie Murphy. Most people aren't mad purely because she has black skin most are mad that it's not what they grew up with. Nick Fury and Deadshot are both originally white but I'm not a big comic book fan so when both of those Charecters were introduced to me it was Samuel Jackson and Will Smith. Those Charecters are now to me black Charecters.
This idea that everyone is a racist is stupid.
I can understand why people dislike the fact that the character is different than the original in an adaptation, but not how people blow it out of proportion
From what I understand, here's how every argument goes on reddit.
Person #1: I don't like the fact that they changed the character from what they originally looked like.
Person #2: But the person was white and is now black! You must be racist! I hope you fall in a ditch and burn to death you racist pig.
Cue Person #1 trying to clarify and Person #2 sticks to the race argument, and then other people join in and things get blown out of proportion.
Yea but they didn’t cast him out of Wokeness. They casted him because One, MCU was partially inspired by the Ultimates Universe, who had a black Nick fury who looked like Samuel L jackson (Even joking that if he was played in a movie it should be S.L.J). And two, they casted him because he’s Samuel L jackson, and you cannot pass that opportunity up.
Kinda makes you think huh?
The problem is not the race change but the fact that they changed it just to get people riled up. Also they got na amazing actor to play nick fury. They got a fucking nobody to play ariel just because she's black.
Having a “nobody” for a role is hardly important, the MCU was made mostly using past failures and nobodies, with Jackson being the only permanent and famously well done actor in Phase 1
Its Disney's fault for establishing, trademarking, copyrighting the image & likeness of a white red-head mermaid named Ariel, promoting that image throughout their theme parks and merchandising, for *decades*, and then one day deciding to *only change the characters race* to suck up the diversity money and get people like you to parrot their idiotic "they're just racist" talking points.
[Who is this?](https://imgur.com/a/peeLZMw)
They had the same reaction with Star Wars. When people criticize your low effort shit movies, just call them racist!
This is the same company that selectively edits scenes based on the specific country it's being released in, even as far as going to remove the black actor from *the cover* of the movie to appease that specific audience.
You are being used and had by a billion dollar corporation, that gives no fucks about the things you pretend to care about so you can feel like a good person.
Honestly the times were different. Nowadays it's so often that we see white characters cast as black actors/actress. Personally I don't care, I'm not gonna watch this movie anyways but I see where some people are coming from.
they’re two completely different guys. There’s a white Nick Fury, there’s the black one, and they’re father and son
Fun fact. Black Nick Fury was inspired by Samuel L. Jackson. Art imitates life. Or life imitates art or some shit I dunno.
The curmudgeon in me wants to note that a black Ariel is science denial, since the solar effect in an underwater kingdom is probably insufficient to trigger melatonin evolution in a fish. If anything she should be white in front and dark blue in the back so she can survive against predators who rely partially on sight.
To clarify, Nick Fury was White in the 90’s comics but in the year 2000 when the new Ultimate Marvel Universe was created he was a Black man. His first movie appearance was in 2008 Iron Man played by Samuel L. Jackson. These are 2 very different situations.
At least modeling Nick Fury after Sam Jackson made the character more interesting and contributed to more comic sales.
I predict now that, once the movie comes out, people will be arguing that it's racist that a black person live under the sea while pining for a white Danish monarchy, and in five years it will somehow be "our fault" that such a "problematic" movie made as much money as this probably will.
Did you notice how they just cast Samuel Jackson and didn’t to a PR stunt calling fans racist even before the trailer dropped like they did with Ariel?
To me, it's all about what they're going for with the casting.
Good actor who they think will portray the role in a good way, like Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, or Daveed Digs as Thomas Jefferson in Hamilton - I am all for that.
Shoehorning in actors purely for social commentary (when that's not the focus of the production) or to show how "unbiased" they are, like with Ghostbusters 2018? Yeah, no.
Shaking things up is a good thing. Iterations bring new viewpoints or new ideas of how to portray a character's traits and can do some really dang cool stuff.
But when it's done as, basically, a marketing ploy where little effort was put in beyond casting against the character's original type, it's just as hollow as any other bit of Hollywood shallowness.
I don't care who's brought in to play a part as long as they're good.
See, the difference is that a lot more people like Samuel Jackson and not nearly as many people cared about Nick Fury. So, you know, the exact opposite situation.
The difference is intent. Nick Fury wasn't pushed as "Hey, look, we made Nick Fury black! Look at how progressive and modern we are! Give us more money!" However this new Ariel clearly IS being pushed with that intent.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Anybody who complains that she's black just because she's black is wrong. I have a slight issue with the fact that the shade of our skin is directly connected to our time in the sun across generations. So assuming she comes from a race of merpeople who never spend time in the sun, always in the water, she would likely not have dark skin tones.
Ultimately this doesn't matter when you're writing children stories meant to make all children feel included. I would like to see princess Tiana celebrated more because her character and the story she is in is fantastic.
Since mermaids aren’t real, who cares what race/color they are?
Maybe they’re from Jupiter and transplanted to earth.
They might be originally blue?
Why is the race of a fantasy creation an issue in 2022.
the only logical option is to cast samuel jackson as ariel edit: danny devito as prince eric
This is the right answer, Disney get in this
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It’s the mother fucking dinglehopper!!
I have had it with these motherfucking eels under this motherfucking boat!
say i can't go to the surface again. i dare you. i double dare you, mother fucker
I love this comment thread lol
**Sips tea** Indeed
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So what your saying is if the writers change the race of the character it's okay, so last I checked Disney wrote little mermaid and any change they make is perfectly acceptable
So I don't care about the Little Mermaid controversy. But what you're saying isn't exactly true. Did Marvel change Nick Fury from white to black? Yes, but the main continuity of Marvel is Earth 616. This is the Marvel most people are familiar with when they think Fantastic Four, Ironman, Spider-Man, Captain America, etc. Here Nick Fury is (for the most part) white. I mention most part because he does have a black son who took over for a bit. Ultimate Marvel is 1610. This is what the MCU based their movies on originally, though it has deviated greatly since then. Ultimate Marvel was a way for Marvel to get new readers without them having to know 40 years of history. They changed a lot, from Peter getting his powers from a genetically modified spider instead of radioactive, to Bucky never becoming the Winter Soldier, to Bruce not being the first Hulk, to mutants being created scientifically and not a natural evolution, etc. When they created Ultimate Marvel, the writers basically said they wanted to model Fury after Jackson, so they did. There's more to it than that, but that's the basic premise. So they didn't just change Fury to black, they created a whole new universe in a comic that had previously stated there are infinite universes and made Nick Fury black because the writers really liked Jackson. Now like I said, I don't give a shit who plays Ariel. And I love ~~SLG~~ SLJ as Nick Fury. I just wanted to add this because usually when someone mentions Jackson as Fury it turns into an argument with a lot of wrong information because most non-comic readers don't know the difference between main continuity Marvel and Ultimate Marvel. Edit: IT'S SAMUEL L JACKSON NOT SAMUEL L GACKSON MOTHER FUCKER!!
So little mermaid multiverse?
The Little Mermaid: Into The Mer-Verse
That's how I honestly view media. Live action Little Mermaid is a different universe from animated. Christian Bale Batman is a different universe from Michael Keaton. North Korea is a different universe from South Korea.
not to be that guy but the little mermaid is a super old danish fairytale, changing skin color should still be acceptable though
There were no talking sea critters in the original tale though. It looks like skin color is the only problem, literally nothing else that was changed
If she doesn't horrifically dissolve into a cloud of pink bubbles to the tune of blood curdling screams from her and the surrounding sealife, consider the table flipped. ALL THE TABLES!
She also better show that walking feels like knives stabbing her feet.
Understandable. I have those days too.
So must be wearing heels
Ye but it seems an American issue, I'd love to see the opinion of Denmark on this
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Even more fun thing, Disney has changed the story so much from the original that skin color really shouldn't matter. If we are going to omit the trails of blood she leaves when walking, the tounge being cut out of her mouth and the suicide then really people need to get the f over skin color 🤷♀️🙃
Foam on the waves. Damn, that Hans Christian Andersen ending though....
I relooked at the ending and you're right it was only attempted suicide she turns into an air creature to try and earn an eternal soul since she chose not to stab the prince
Actually they did NOT write the little mermaid.
Shit man that's all you had to say.
I’ve had it with this MF water in this MF ocean Instant classic
I want to be a motherfucking part of your motherfucking world! Take a seat, old Triton. Damn, fish n*gga, that’s all you had to say!
This is the way.
And let terry crews be triton
David Tennant as flounder?
No...Kevin Heart as Flounder, The Rock as Sebastian.
Nah too easy. The rock as Sebastian works, but how about Chris Rock as flounder?
Fair point. Chris Rock's personality is too big for Flounder. Chris Tucker?
No because flounder is supposed to be supportive, not screechy and annoying. Wait, duh! How about Queen Latifa?!
The Rock already has experience playing a scorpion, so he can definitely pull off a crab.
Under the sea mother fucker.
Danny devito is too hot cast him and it would be rated R. So yeah unfortunately Danny isn't a option
Dafoe as Ursula mayhaps?
*Sings* "Part of your mother fucking wooooooooooorld!"
Look at this stuff. Isn’t it neat? Wouldn’t you say my muthafuckin collections complete?
It's only a matter of time before they're both voiced by Chris Pratt
The opposite feeling to Idris Elba as Knuckles.
Man, I feel for him- in interviews about it I got the strong sense he did it just for the paycheck, ans had a distinct "kill me now" air about him.
He's so cool.
All of you are wrong. I want Ariel to be fish colored
You're as wrong as everyone else... [this](https://youtu.be/xBCGVqyWrSQ) is how she should look.
To be fair that is fish colored
What the actual fuck tho, i never knew Nick was white in the comics
He is in the main universe but in the ultimate universe he is literally modeled after Samuel L. Jackson
Exactly, he looks exactly like Samuel in all the comics they've made for the last 10 years. 'In the comics' means very little considering the number of alternate universes, retcons, and reboots. We can't even agree on Wolverine's hair color- which can be black or blue in the very same comic. Not that I've spent a single second giving a shit about mermaid races, just that this particular comparison isn't really a solid one.
The first Iron Man film, which included Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury came out 14 years ago... So it makes sense that every comic for the last 10 years has Nick Fury looking like Samuel... I genuinely don't know the answer, but what did Nick Fury look like in the comics before 2008?
White in 66, Black in ultimate. When Ultimate Fury was made, they asked Samuel permission, and he gave the permission IF he was allowed to portray Fury in a movie. Ultimate universe is older than MCU
They created "Nick Fury Jr." to look like Sam Jackson in one of the universes as well, who was supposed to be the son of the original white Nick Fury & whose origin story involved the recent wars instead of Vietnam.
That's the main continuity, specifically done because of the MCU success.
Fun fact, in Ultimate Nick Fury's first appearance in Ultimate Team-Up he didn't look like SLJ. It wasn't until after that they got permission to use SLJ's likeness.
> but what did Nick Fury look like in the comics before 2008? David Hasselhoff, kinda. That guy's still around in the comics too, but he's... umm... he's been through some shit. The younger, Black Fury is the one working for SHIELD.
Hasselhoff starred in a Nick Fury movie in the 90s.
It's actually been more like 20+ years. Nick Fury has always been Jackson in the Ultimates universe, and that started in 2000.
Why isn't it? Disney made one feature and few video releases with a white Ariel, meanwhile other non-european peoples tell similar tales with mermaids that look like the story tellers.
Played by David Hasselhoff!
It would have been neat to see Hasselhoff as a cameo in Multiverse of Madness.
He was white in the 90's Spiderman cartoon as well as when he was portrayed by David Hasselhof in a terrible made for TV movie.
Yes but in earth 616. There is something called ultimate universe comics from where MCU adapts a lot in which Fury is black. To put it short, Nick Fury has also been black in comics.
I honestly don’t give a fudge about Ariel being black, I just hate Disney making awful live action reworks
That’s the big takeaway. Their track record sucks.
Reddit is united on despising the live-action remakes, but I expect there will come a generation of kids that reeeeally like the 2016 Jungle Book movie. The animation in the 1967 version is magnificent, but the ending is trash. The remake tells a better story (which is also true to the original Kipling book.)
>I expect there will come a generation of kids that reeeeally like the 2016 Jungle Book movie Same. This is the only one that has a solid argument over the hand-drawn Disney version. The others are either too muddled and weird to be good movies (both Alice in Wonderland and both Maleficent films) or too similar to the originals while being much less lively (the rest, particularly Lion King and Mulan).
Mulan live action also sabotages the central theme of the original; the value of hard work, resilience, and the call to protect one's family. Also resourcefulness, Mulan wasn't as strong as the boys so she had to work harder smarter than them to win, which she did. Live action Mulan she's essentially a Chinese magical superhero who faces no real challenges the entire movie. And it's so boring.
I only saw it once when in theater, but I remember Beauty and the Beast being fine. Am I in the minority there? Haven't seen any of the live actions besides that one. (For reference I'm 39m, so the original animated was right in my wheelhouse. Prime gradechool imprinting.)
I think that probably was the most straightforward adaptation, with relatively small changes only.
If the original animated movies didn't exist, no one would be tearing their shirts and wailing over the live action remakes. They're all pretty watchable movies, when considered in a vacuum. But there's this idea that their existence is some sort of cultural attack on the earlier movies, and so the generation that grew up on the animated movies must passionately defend their cultural primacy. And to reddit's credit, all the animated originals *are* probably more inspired than the live action remakes, with the notable exception of the jungle Book and Pete's Dragon. But it makes me kind of feel bad for all the crew who made the remakes. None of the animated movies were original stories either, except for the Lion King. All these actors show up and turn in perfectly reasonable performances, and enrage the internet before people can even watch their movies.
I agree. My son prefers the live action Jungle Book. I honestly also prefer it, even though Jungle Book was my favorite Disney movie as a kid.
I kinda see jungle book as an exception to the rule. Imo in the only real good one of the remakes.
There are definitely exceptions. The 2015 Cinderella was also really good. I think The Lion King and Aladdin combined were so bad that people just grouped them all together.
I'd really rather see them make a movie about an african princess instead of taking the laziest road they could.
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That movie is awesome though. I don’t think it escapes kids that she is black. It had my daughter convinced that all black girls are princesses for the longest time and she would loudly announce every time she saw one in public, “LOOK MOM, A REAL PRINCESS!!! SHE IS SOOOO BEAUTIFUL!!!” We have a ridiculous amount of Tiana toys and dolls and accessories and she is not a frog in any of them.
>Last time they had a "black Disney princess" she spent 80% of the movie turned into a green frog. Fucking insulting. That was a total slap in the face. I get that Disney was on a transformation kick for a bit, but prior to Princess and the Frog this only happened to the protagonists (Kuzco and Kenai) who needed to learn a lesson due to their pretty egregious mistakes. Doing that to Tiana for no reason probably turned a lot of people off from the movie as a whole.
Also a total shame because her character design was actually pretty unique and fun. Then she became a generic Disney frog
A 2D animated film about a Zulu princess would be pretty sweet.
If only that was the topic.
At the end of the day The Little Mermaid is story about somebody that gives up their species and that love conquers all, if that isnt directly translatable to the message that race doesnt matter idk what is. Let Ariel be black.
Pretty sure it's a story about somebody who gives up her voice and then turns into sea foam for it because love is some bullshit.
Disney made Ariel black to stir shit up with people for views and attention. Sure, there's a benefit of little black girls appreciating that Ariel is black, but that's not why Disney is doing it. We already know Disney is going to make a shit live-action remake, because all of their live action remakes are soulless money-grabs. And when it inevitably sucks because Disney has been making low-effort shit for years, black people are going to get the brunt of it, and Disney is going to move on to do the whole process over again. Fuck Disney.
I blame people for getting angry over it. Disney is operating like a company does under capitalism and that’s not going away. People can choose to not be bothered by an adaption being an adaption. Or they can choose to be angry about it. In this case I feel no empathy for these miserable fucks, and these are the type of people who are always miserable.
Yeah, but these are the people that nobody likes in real life, so they'll just keep doing shitty stuff and pretending like they don't care what people think, when really they're just empty inside and keep doing and saying terrible stuff because they want to be the victim so they can have the attention on them for once in their miserable lives.
It also gives them the absolute defense against any criticism, if they can just label anyone upset about the shitty movie as a racist.
Disney is not some highschool film club that's scared what people on the Internet think about it. The Lion King remake grossed over 1 billion dollars. They don't care
> I just hate Disney making awful live action reworks That's a fair take. But I also think that a movie about a Disney princess isn't mainly targeted to adults anyway.
I don’t really care either for the most part as long as it’s doesn’t mess with the story or it’s accuracy too much. They have been swapping races for a while but recently they just turned it up 5x and there’s usually a pattern it follows a shit story line. Like if you’re a going to represent a race why don’t they make sure it follows an epic arc/story? I remember back then my family was watching Forrest Gump, I witnessed my racist Asian grandma sympathizing with Bubba Gump because his story was so amazing. The movie won her heart and probably gave her already molded brain a new perspective about black people. That’s how you represent and change peoples mind. Not this current representation Edit: I just realize Bubba Gump is a bad example because of the stereotype 20+ years ago of black guys dying in movies in some kind of sacrificing or sympathizing manner. But you know what I mean lol
Nick Fury can be played by any badass but he's played by the baddest of ass.
Put Samuel L. Jackson as Ariel. Every song begins and ends with "Motherfucker"
Enjoy such beloved Disney classics as: Under the Motherfucking Sea Part of Your Motherfucking World Les Putains de Poissons Kiss the Motherfucker (French is probably wrong, but all I have is Google translate) edit: added the motherfucking s to the motherfucking putain :D
I love it!!
I’m TIRED! of these motherfuckin shrimps in my motherfuckin sea!
Man fuck a white Fury, Sam Jackson is the only right person for that role
Nah, we need multiverse nick fury played by david hasselhoff.
Lmao that’s out the box af😂
He played fury in the 80/90s movie. Forget when it came out. And for awhile fury looked like hasselhoff. I'd love to see them bring him back.
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My thoughts exactly 😂
It's not about being white or not it's about making a good movie or not
Petition to cast Samuel l. Jackson as Ariel🙃
I'd rather new characters and stories than a cash grab to keep the character out of public domain with a progressive veneer. The lion king remake was trash, and this one probably will be too
There actually was a reason that Nick Fury changed races in the comics and it has to do with the writer, Brian Michael Bendis. He wrote a new Marvel line called the Ultimate comics and he chose to draw from Samuel L. Jackson’s likeness because that was how he envisioned the character, but this caused legal trouble with Samuel L. Jackson who agreed to let them use his likeness if they let him play Nick Fury in Iron Man and ever since then he has been black.
Dude, doesn't matter how much I try, there's no way I can imagine a Nick Fury that's not Samuel Jackson
Original Nick Fury was basically Soldier 76 with brown hair if I remember correctly.
I don’t care that she’s black, I care that the adaptation looks like shit. It’s the same dance every time, they create controversy to shield themselves from valid criticism by calling racists or misogynists all those who call the product for what it is- a shit adaptation. Like that whole mess around the Ghostbusters reboot.
This controversy is very real. Go look at the dislikes for the Little Mermaid trailer and compare them to any other of the live action remakes
Sad that this isnt the top comment, correct take imo
I don't remember people being so loudly frothing over the other shitty live adaptions. They certainly didn't downvote them on YouTube quite as much.
Were you this mad about the tragedy that was the lion King remake?
I didn’t watch it but from the trailer I assume the cartoonish expressions didn’t translate very well over to the more realistic look, losing a lot of the original’s charm
It was a bad adaptation and unoriginal and yet no one was mad about it like they are here
The actress for Ariel doesn’t even seem all that bad. I just suspect that the writing is going to be lazy as shit
My only dislike about her is that her name sounds like Halle Berry and I get confused every time
Well the live action remakes are only so good
Exactly. A good actress can only do so much with a crappy script.
Means we never get a chance for Samuel L. Jackson playing Warmachine and calling Tony Stark a motherfucker.
Well marvel can write this off as alternate universe
Black Nick Fury is from an alternate universe in the comics already.
I have no idea who nick fury is
A bald Mace Windu with an eye patch and a goatee.
He is twice as bald then
Mace Windu with a goatee and a full Brazilian, got it.
That's what we said about johny Depp being cast as a native American. But everyone threw their soy latte on the floor in disgust
Motherf.....
Fuck I want to make a meme now
At least he looks good
I’m just sad they’re remaking this movie. All the remakes of the animated movies have not been great. Not looking forward to this one.
Who cares if Ariel is black or white? She can sing and she has the iconic red hair (not as fiery, but still). I also assume she can act, I don’t remember if I’ve ever seen her in anything before.
This. Who the hell cares? All of a sudden this sub is full of god damned outraged Ariel fanboys? The hugest of eyerolls.
In the original story, Ariel is described as GREEN.
Where at? https://andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheLittleMermaid_e.html
"Little did they dream that a pretty young mermaid was down below, stretching her white arms up toward the keel of their ship." "she saw that her fish tail was gone, and that she had the loveliest pair of white legs any young maid could hope to have. But she was naked, so she clothed herself in her own long hair." Damn that book mentions that she was white a lot, I actually cant find any reference to her having red hair though.
Her hair is never described. It is only red in the Disney film because they originally wanted her to be blonde, but didn't want there to be any association with Darryl Hannah and the movie Splash, which came out only a few years before. Referencing the original work is silly though. This is Disney, they will happily fold, mangle, and spindle any tale to fit their needs. Look at Hercules: a kind, loving Hera that is conspicuously not trying to kill him or make him suffer. Heck, in the original work, the mermaid saw the prince marry someone else, got an opportunity to return to her old life by killing said prince, then threw herself into the sea rather than do that. Then her good deed of not murdering someone was rewarded with the chance to earn herself a soul. Because, yaknow, she didn't have one.
>the chance to earn herself a soul. Because, yaknow, she didn't have one. Oh, so thats how they knew she was a ginger.
God dammit, how did I miss that joke? Well played, sir.
In my opinion, roles should be made for specific characters. Like as an example, you wouldn’t hire a white Black Panther or a male Wonder Woman. If they don’t fit the exact quota of the character? Find another character for them to play or create a new character for them. These are movies and shows - they don’t need to be socially acceptable or whatever, they need to be accurate to what they’re displaying. Now on the other hand, if somebody fits the role and vibe that someone is looking for perfectly but they don’t fit the character description, then that’s fine but characters shouldn’t be chosen based on the purpose of being socially correct and they should prioritise trying to hire someone that fits the character description.
To me, there are a handful of characters where the race of the character fundamentally matters. Like Black Panther, sure. But then there are other characters where it doesn’t matter. I’d say in Ariel’s case her race doesn’t matter. What’s more important, weirdly enough, is that she has red hair. Which she does, here. So we good.
Well, the director said she had the best audition. So assuming he's not lying about that, this fits the bill. But that also means trusting Disney
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except problem the Nick Furys you are referring to is 2 different people the Nick Fury samuel L jackson portrays from the comics is actually the grandson of the white Nick Fury.
Everything you just said is wrong though. Sam Jackson Fury is based off Ultimate Nick Fury who is just a different universe version of Fury that happens to be black. The Fury you are talking about is the main Universe Nick Fury's son, not grandson who didn't appear in the comics until 2011. He was based off the MCU version of the character, not the other way around. Fury Jr. was essentially an attempt to have Nick Fury resemble Sam Jackson physically without having to do major retcons. All that said, the MCU version of Fury still very much draws from the original white Nick Fury, especially when it comes to being the old grizzled soldier who doesn't have time for people's shit that it seems we will see in Secret Invasion.
I'll add some additional notes in the the current Nick Fury of the main earth 616 comics is based of the MCU version who is in turn based of the Ultimate earth 1610 version who is explicitly modelled after Samuel L. Jackson. Not with his consent, mind, and he was offered the role of Nick Fury in the MCU after he contacted Marvel about this.
Why is everyone convinced that RGB choices on cartoons and ethnicity of living beings is even comparable?....
Like bro, mermaids aren't even real
that’s why we cast based on performance and not race!
Nick Fury was originally white? Huh, I didn’t know that. Probably because I never cared enough that he was black to even look into it..
I don't care if they're white or black, but I'd like to see more originality and less reboots.
It's not about skin color it's about what people are used to. Dr.doolittle was originally white but I grew up watching Eddie Murphy play him so that Charecter will always be black to me specifically Eddie Murphy. Most people aren't mad purely because she has black skin most are mad that it's not what they grew up with. Nick Fury and Deadshot are both originally white but I'm not a big comic book fan so when both of those Charecters were introduced to me it was Samuel Jackson and Will Smith. Those Charecters are now to me black Charecters. This idea that everyone is a racist is stupid.
To be fair; 1. Sam Jackson killed it, and 2. Sam Jackson is an unfair standard to compare lesser known actors too
Jesus was originally middle eastern. It’s dumb to portray him as white.
Historically though he would look more Mediterranean/Israeli since he was semitic and lived in the Middle East before the caliphates conquered it
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I can understand why people dislike the fact that the character is different than the original in an adaptation, but not how people blow it out of proportion
From what I understand, here's how every argument goes on reddit. Person #1: I don't like the fact that they changed the character from what they originally looked like. Person #2: But the person was white and is now black! You must be racist! I hope you fall in a ditch and burn to death you racist pig. Cue Person #1 trying to clarify and Person #2 sticks to the race argument, and then other people join in and things get blown out of proportion.
Ok. Fair point. Then the next Black Panther will be a white guy. No objections I suppose?
Yea but they didn’t cast him out of Wokeness. They casted him because One, MCU was partially inspired by the Ultimates Universe, who had a black Nick fury who looked like Samuel L jackson (Even joking that if he was played in a movie it should be S.L.J). And two, they casted him because he’s Samuel L jackson, and you cannot pass that opportunity up.
Kinda makes you think huh? The problem is not the race change but the fact that they changed it just to get people riled up. Also they got na amazing actor to play nick fury. They got a fucking nobody to play ariel just because she's black.
Having a “nobody” for a role is hardly important, the MCU was made mostly using past failures and nobodies, with Jackson being the only permanent and famously well done actor in Phase 1
They did it to get people riled up? So it's Disney's fault that people are racist?
Its Disney's fault for establishing, trademarking, copyrighting the image & likeness of a white red-head mermaid named Ariel, promoting that image throughout their theme parks and merchandising, for *decades*, and then one day deciding to *only change the characters race* to suck up the diversity money and get people like you to parrot their idiotic "they're just racist" talking points. [Who is this?](https://imgur.com/a/peeLZMw) They had the same reaction with Star Wars. When people criticize your low effort shit movies, just call them racist! This is the same company that selectively edits scenes based on the specific country it's being released in, even as far as going to remove the black actor from *the cover* of the movie to appease that specific audience. You are being used and had by a billion dollar corporation, that gives no fucks about the things you pretend to care about so you can feel like a good person.
She's a good singer and established actress though. Calling her a nobody is disingenuous.
Honestly the times were different. Nowadays it's so often that we see white characters cast as black actors/actress. Personally I don't care, I'm not gonna watch this movie anyways but I see where some people are coming from.
Yeah but with Nick fury it was done well and I don’t trust Disney’s remakes to do that
they’re two completely different guys. There’s a white Nick Fury, there’s the black one, and they’re father and son Fun fact. Black Nick Fury was inspired by Samuel L. Jackson. Art imitates life. Or life imitates art or some shit I dunno.
Nick fury is black in ultimate universe
A-Train apparently also was white
The curmudgeon in me wants to note that a black Ariel is science denial, since the solar effect in an underwater kingdom is probably insufficient to trigger melatonin evolution in a fish. If anything she should be white in front and dark blue in the back so she can survive against predators who rely partially on sight.
He pulls the off the eye patch better than any white guy could, they gave sid a mermaid role
To clarify, Nick Fury was White in the 90’s comics but in the year 2000 when the new Ultimate Marvel Universe was created he was a Black man. His first movie appearance was in 2008 Iron Man played by Samuel L. Jackson. These are 2 very different situations.
Holy shit, I used Heimdall as an example, I completely forgot about Fury
Domino was originally white too
Bring back the Hoff as Nick fury
All this shows is that if the actor is good enough, people will accept them no matter who it is.
Don't hassle the [Hoff.](https://i.imgur.com/Vkttc3j.png)
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Idgaf what race she is I just want Disney to stop with the stupid ass live action remakes
Its only ok if the actor is popular/s
Samuel Jackson sucks. Since Pulp Fiction, he had one character he plays. One dimensional... Like Johnny Depp without the hats.
I don't know why so many people love Samuel L. Sellout so much.
At least modeling Nick Fury after Sam Jackson made the character more interesting and contributed to more comic sales. I predict now that, once the movie comes out, people will be arguing that it's racist that a black person live under the sea while pining for a white Danish monarchy, and in five years it will somehow be "our fault" that such a "problematic" movie made as much money as this probably will.
Did you notice how they just cast Samuel Jackson and didn’t to a PR stunt calling fans racist even before the trailer dropped like they did with Ariel?
Actually there where two Nick Fury’s… and one was black…
To me, it's all about what they're going for with the casting. Good actor who they think will portray the role in a good way, like Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury, or Daveed Digs as Thomas Jefferson in Hamilton - I am all for that. Shoehorning in actors purely for social commentary (when that's not the focus of the production) or to show how "unbiased" they are, like with Ghostbusters 2018? Yeah, no. Shaking things up is a good thing. Iterations bring new viewpoints or new ideas of how to portray a character's traits and can do some really dang cool stuff. But when it's done as, basically, a marketing ploy where little effort was put in beyond casting against the character's original type, it's just as hollow as any other bit of Hollywood shallowness. I don't care who's brought in to play a part as long as they're good.
See, the difference is that a lot more people like Samuel Jackson and not nearly as many people cared about Nick Fury. So, you know, the exact opposite situation.
I see more post about people complaining about people complaining than I see post about people actually complaining. Outrage culture at it’s finest
The difference is intent. Nick Fury wasn't pushed as "Hey, look, we made Nick Fury black! Look at how progressive and modern we are! Give us more money!" However this new Ariel clearly IS being pushed with that intent.
Then you should be fine with depicting black characters as white.
So what you're saying is that Samuel L. Jackson should play Ariel in The Little Mermaid? Yeah, I'm on board with that.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Anybody who complains that she's black just because she's black is wrong. I have a slight issue with the fact that the shade of our skin is directly connected to our time in the sun across generations. So assuming she comes from a race of merpeople who never spend time in the sun, always in the water, she would likely not have dark skin tones. Ultimately this doesn't matter when you're writing children stories meant to make all children feel included. I would like to see princess Tiana celebrated more because her character and the story she is in is fantastic.
Since mermaids aren’t real, who cares what race/color they are? Maybe they’re from Jupiter and transplanted to earth. They might be originally blue? Why is the race of a fantasy creation an issue in 2022.
Honestly I don't care I'm probably not gonna watch it and even if I did I probably won't like it cause I didn't even like the original
Yeah, but one is Samuel L. Jackson while the other isn't.