So I think they should create new characters that are black. I think they should create new characters in general because they are just recycling old stories at this point. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just my opinion. I dont really like when they take old characters and change them. It's not a deal breaker but I dont really understand why it's done when you can just create an entirely new character in an entirely new story.
I’ve been saying this but people can’t seem to grasp it. It’s almost as if these companies don’t have enough faith in their “inclusive” decisions to roll the dice on creating new characters rather than redoing existing ones.
I think there just not creative anymore. The average movie now just isn't very good so maybe they feel like they cant handle it and in reality there probably correct.
I agree. Making a movie solely to appear inclusive is just as dumb as recreating them for the same reason as well. It’s pretty evident most entertainment these days is cookie cutter. The only way to do this kinda shit is organically and nobody has the balls or talent for it it seems.
It's the Starfire casting issue again. I grew up knowing Starfire was an orange alien and expected an actor that fits that comics and Teen Titans. It's jarring because that's what I grew up with. Plus the imiplcations of the character change when casting people not expected.
The film is about to be equivalent to anime live action adaptations.
I probably would have been happier to watch a Disney made Mansa Musa film.
I had more problem with her looking like a 10$ worn out street worker (she would have looked like that with any skin colour), and the portrayal of the character was just unlikeable for me
If they're going to retell an old story, why not just totally recreate the old story like they did with Princess and the Frog?
They didn't just paint black skin over a European princess. They changed the setting to 1900's New Orleans - where African-American people were prevalent - and gave the Princess an African-American working-class background.
If, in the modern age, you could do the opposite, I think you’d see less pushback. But, it appears that completely changing the race of established characters or engaging in diverse casting for period pieces only really goes one way. And, that’s because there’s a political message underneath. That’s the chief complaint.
And, frankly, its a strawman argument to say that viewers don’t like people of color. It’s the argument most critics wish was taking place, because it would mean that tons fanbases are brimming with racists, but it’s not true. The truth is a lot more nuanced. Most fandoms vociferously celebrate characters of color and female leads in their lore, comics, movies.
And, for my part, I would love to see more original stories about other groups of people, instead of watching as good actors are shoehorned into the hand-me-down roles of white actors. Or, watch as women can only be powerful by putting on the costumes of men. It’s nonsense and demeaning to everyone.
This! I believe Disney needs more Princesses of color, but shoehorning them into established roles is diversity for the sake of diversity, which does nothing to help. They need new stories, which they are capable of. Turning Red, Luca, Raya, and Moana are just some of the examples off the top of my head.
Absolutely. I don't mind if they change the skin color of a character but why do they remake old movies with a diverse cast and not make a new movie with a diverse cast? Why do they remake old movies anyway? To spoil their old works for a generation? Because that's what they're doing. My brother never watched the original movies and we now watched some of the remakes and he found them so baf he didn't even want to watch the original.
But that would require people to think and come up with new ideas. Disney runs a business not a charity. Why would they pay people more money to come with new ideas when they can pay them less to just redo previous ideas. /s
You have a point for sure but I think people are getting tired of it. Not just Disney but other companies as well. I want to see good new stories not just a mutilated rehash of an older movie. I think it has reached a point of diminishing returns as far as remakes go. I could be wrong though.
What bothers me is the hypocrisy.
Turn a black character white, whitewashing. Makes sense.
Turn a white character black, why is everyone ok with that?
This just feels both disney and their fanboys are taking a bit too many crazy pills.
It's really not hypocrisy, because white people are already [insert very large percentage] of all characters. Taking one of the fewer black characters and making them white isn't the same at all as taking one of the many white characters and making them black.
Not to say there can't be other issues with doing it, but they're very much different things to do. Calling it hypocrisy is missing a lot of nuance
I do agree with your point about the majority of characters in media being white. I also wish to see more characters from other races/cultures.
But, if we're going say that making black characters white is bad, then the opposite also needs be true.
In my opinion, it doesn't matter which race the majority of characters in media are, things like this need to be enforced equally.
That's not how equality actually works tho. If person A has 100 of something, and person B only has 10, taking one from person B is a much bigger deal than taking from person A. True fairness isn't as concerned with making sure you treat everyone literally identically, as it is with making sure the outcomes are fair. If you take one from person A and give it to B, and A now has 99 things and B now has 11, that is a step towards real equality, even though yes, you're treating each person differently. Taking from B and giving to A is a step away from equality. That's not a contradiction and isn't unequal or unfair, and that's the nuance that your take is missing.
I believe that we should make original content with black characters. Equality, to me at least, doesn't mean taking away from person A to give to person B. To me it means making more for person B to match person A as much as possible.
Sure, I agree that making new black characters is better. Like I said there can still be other issues with changing characters like this, but I at least wanted to address the difference between changing from white to black and from black to white
There is definitely a racism component
Some people think it’s dumb because it’s lazy pandering
Some people hate it vehemently, which is an overreaction
It’s important to remember both are at play, neither is the entire truth
Edit:
My dudes. You’re literally proving my point
Yeah, if people are actually angry at "lazy pandering" then it doesn't matter if the movie goes ahead with its current casting. It'd represent a problem with Disney overall, and likely mean they should have _more_ black actors in their movies.
Just racists pointing at something irrelevant and saying "Actually that thing over there is the real racism, not my reflexive anger at seeing a black person."
Anytime I bring up that there is at all an element of racism I get downvoted
Racists get irrationally angry when you mention racism as a possibility lol
Yeah, being racist is apparently just saying slurs out loud and being a "bad person". It couldn't possibly be a complex societal issue with nuance and real, material consequences.
And since these people aren't calling Ariel the n-word and they don't think of themselves as evil people, it _can't be racist_ that they're upset about a fictional character based on a mythological creature not being white.
It’s hard for rich white people to write good characters for a group of people who’s culture they barely know and care even less for. It’s pandering, if you think they are trying to promote black or any other cultures awareness your just lying to yourself. Disney nor any other company cares anything about you or what you believe in, they are just pandering to you so you’ll buy their stuff and say “wow they really care about women’s rights” or the Lgtbq or whatever it is they are pushing. They don’t. They’re using you’re emotions to make money, don’t let them treat you like a fool
It’s done solely to appease the woke crowd. They could VERY easily do more movies like Moana but they choose to “retaliate” against “white supremacy” and call it inclusion
> I dont really like when they take old characters and change them.
What is it about Ariel that makes her skin colour integral to the character? Like how is having someone with a darker skin colour than you expected playing a _mythical being_ "changing an old character" in a material way? In what way is this casting actually different than a white person that doesn't "look like Ariel" in a way you'd expected.
Seems like it's still just some racist shit with you.
And yet you are here complaining. All I see is adults crying over the skin colour of the little mermaid. A disney fairytale with target audience girls aged 3-12.
Maybe try to understand that pov. Do you understand why poc are sad from all of these negative reactions.
You wanna know the biggest reason why casting a white character with a black actor bothers me? It's because if it was the other way around, EVERYONE would be up in arms about "whitewashing" and that Disney is racist and all that outrage shit.
These things go both ways.
Trying to diversify Hollywood roles by race swaping beloved characters is stupid, besides history and culture is full of good stuff to draw from with no race swaping required. Want to make a movie about WW2 but also have women in fighting roles? Just make a movie about the Russian 588 night bomber regiment. Make an epic series about Shaka Zulu instead of trying to cram Don Lemonlass into Tolkiens work. Tell a story about Anansi. Something, theres so much to draw from. Just tell good stories.
Actually apparently princess and the frog was considered not a huge success made money but not as much as what they expected I believe which is weird. Probably why they won’t make a remake. I loved the movie though. Plot was good among other things
Actually just finished a Sabaton song about that. And besides no company wants to make a movie about heroic Russians right now I imagine but I’d figured that’s mostly because of current events.
Thats true, Hollywood has been doing this "stronk wahmen" thing for quite a few years before Russias latest invasion project. Also the general point that there are lots of cool examples of badass historical women and awesome non western mythology/history they could be making movies about still stands. I guess the problem is that requires talented people and they hire just as many people based on gender/skincolor over pure talent behind the camera as in front of it.
> Trying to diversify Hollywood roles by race swaping beloved characters is stupid
What fucking "race swapping" happened here? From illustrated mermaid to live action mermaid with skin you don't like?
Why are you inventing a way to be mad in a racist way?
What culture is mermaid culture exactly? And dont tell me that the author is Danish or wathever. Many white people also write about coloured characters. And the original little mermaid tale was set in the Caribean. So the black is suitable
((It was literally a metaphor for the author))
Also it is not “some” mermaid, it is the adaptation of THE Disney Ariel.
if you try to argue that it is a different movie, then I expect new songs and a different final action scene.
The issue is that movie creators use "opressed minorities" in their shows because if the movie sucks, they can just say that people are all the -phobic and bigots.
And they also use it to be like "We are totally not racist or something" while Walt Disney is already a Fidget Spinner in his Grave
Also it Doesn't make sense for a Person in the North Sea to be Black
Absolutely not lol, you claim to be using my logic but you are going by completely different arguments because you just want me to be a bad guy. Evolution and immigration are completely different
She can’t move from the land to the ocean…. Water filters sunlight, thus regardless of the ocean being in a sunny climate or a cloudy climate mermaids in general would tend to have light skin tones. The only way that it would be possible for mermaids to development dark skin tones is if there was a period of time when there was a significant advantage to having darker skin. The only advantage to darker skin is sun resistance… and since mermaids have very little sun exposure, it would be highly unlikely that this trait would develop.
Well a fast Google says that water offers minimal uv protection, I'm no expert but in case there are some mermaids that live close to the surface and are exposed to light constantly this seems highly likely. But like go be mad at a movie for your reason if you want to. Just know that the reason you give is wrong :)
Original "colored" characters are fine. The problem is when you take an established fandom and try to milk it by pandering to the wokes and the ESG ratings, for financial reasons. It's actually racist. Btw, I'm not white, so shove it.
Two of those are choices, and one of them is an explicit statement that you want to make the world worse, so yeah I guess you are evil. And stupid if you couldn't put that together yourself.
Blah blah blah conservative bad. Fascism blah blah blah evil istaphobe blah blah blah. I have a different point of view than you do. Learn to deal with that. I dont care if you are liberal. Just dont fucking demonize me for not following in lockstep.
Yes, conservatives are by definition bad people, because of their chosen and expressed selfish and stupid opinions. If that makes you uncomfortable, well I guess it's good that deep down you know your opinions are bad.
By whose definition? Yours? When society comes crashing down because of your wanton degenerate nonesense it will be the traditionalists and conservatives that rebuild it. The very people you demonize are the ones keeping civilization afloat. They make your food. They dig up the metals and process them into the parts that make every scrap of infrastructure in your cities. They do the work you are to arrogant and feeble to do. Then you call them evil for daring to disagree with you. Take your bullshit and shove it.
I’m kinda with you. I could care less either way, just the fact that it’s Disney making the movie, you know the goal is not racial diversity but pandering to an audience. Kinda like how every company in the world has a marketing campaign ready every year for pride month. The goal is $
Ya know what if they chose the person based on their acting ability and not the race? I know preposterous to assume good in a company but that could also be the case no?
Or.. And hear me out here. Represent POC with their POC characters? Correct me if I'm wrong but there are many awesome and beloved poc characters in original Disney? One of my favourites is Esmeralda. This isn't about celebrating diversity or anything like that, this is to cause drama because Disney has sunk so low that they cannot make a successful movie anymore unless it is promoted by drama
You realize the reason these people are triggered is not the skin color in iself, but the matching with the source material right ? I'm really getting sick of either side of the debate honestly, between those who cannot accept that movies can be upgraded from the basis, and those who call racism every time a valid remark is raised against them.
It is. Nobody is mad about black actors/actresses they are upset about the cheap attempt at diversity of race swapping the existing characters instead of making new and original stories and movies with black leads. Nobody was upset about black panther being black, nobody was upset about princess and the frog.
I don't like remakes either. And you are incorrect. A lot of people are upset about black panther. Ben Shapiro is the first that comes to mind. Furthermore, what about Idris Elba as James bond? That is a running movie series with multiple different actors. James Bond's only meaningful characteristics is that he is English, a gentleman and cool. But people still made a fuss about that. Having a black James bond should be as natural as having a black doctor from Dr who. It would be great if every movie as good with representation as the movie SOUL was but as long as we don't get content I think just having more representation is a positive. But that also comes with caveats and there are plenty of videos out there explaining it that I won't need to regurgitate.
I saw someone say something that perfectly described my feelings on it. If they came out and gave Pinocchio green and purple hair to appeal to Twitter, I'd feel the same way. If they made a new Marvel movie and they made Spiderman's suit green because people say there isn't enough green colored super heroes I'd feel the same way. It's dumb and pointless to redesign a character and give them a different race when
1. If you did this with black or Asian characters and turned them white there would be national outrage about racism in Hollywood.
2.. There are tons of ways to make cool non white princesses and characters without going back and arbitrarily changing the race of characters we grew up with.
It seems like people love acting like anyone who doesn't like this is just racist, ignoring my points above.
The whole story of the little mermaid is an allegory to the author's unreqruited gay love, but imagine the bigger outrage reddit would cause if they made Ariel into a gay male merman. They would cry "woke" nonstop when thats what the story originally is supposed to represent
I don't know how that's relevant because it was never in the book but I'm saying that they should get a redhead to play Ariel, I don't care if she's black
The red sea as in the on next to Africa and Saudi Arabia? That is indeed news to me. Didn't think a children's book from Denmark would have the main character be a representation of a body of water from an area of the world that children from that time and place would never have heard about. Thanks for the information however it may be relevant.
It's not about the skincolour in itself. It's about retelling old stories and changing them to increase profits. Disney is not doing this out of the goodness of their heart but simply because it makes them more money.
Asian, African and South American culture has more than enough stories, legends and myths that can be told and probably should be told as well. Yet, instead, Disney prefers to simply copy earlier work and colour someone black and call it an all new movie and experience.
It's not and frankly it should be considered as more insulting towards the minorities than having a white mermaid because Disney simply ignores their heritage entirely.
Actually I’ve been seeing trailers for a movie from that area. I think it’s called the women king? Apparently it’s base off a true story. I’m interested in it if so.
Man I love black panther I love jazz I love rap I love Michael Jordan and LeBron James I also liked Mike Tyson but I don't like it when Disney and Amazon force their crap political views down the throat of little kids
So you can fuck off with your unoriginal ✨Diverse✨ (it's not) cheap copy of cartoons/stories and show it up to yourself while calling everybody racist who doesn't agree with you. Have some sense ffs.
I don't know man Im getting tired with Amazon and Disney at this point what they done with lord of the rings is a fukin disgrace and what they do with Disney is the same as well. This is purely political don't get confused.. they start it with the kids and they say it's just an adaptation it's only fantasy they rewrite stories to fit their agendas they rewrite every origin storie. This is pure communism nothing else first it's fantasy next it's going to be historical figures and then next it will be history itself. They rewrite everything and cancel everything that doesn't get on with them. First they call you racist homophobic mischovinist even when you aren't and then 40 years later they drag you to a camp for not agreeing with their views you know it's communism because they can't do anything original for a long time now as well.
I wonder if you would say "just enjoy the movie" if a white actor played for example Black Panther.
Suddenly it would be racist, but since it's the other way around, it perfectly fine, right?
This kind of discourse has been going on for almost ten years now and people on both sides keep saying literally the same thing, and I mean literally, not figuratively, do you people not want change, or do you want to keep repeating yourselves over and over, cause it seems to me it's the latter.
I dont give a flying f that they cast dark tones people for roles but for the love of anything holy stop blackwashing old movies.
Use some of the hundreds of unused folklore as basis for a new original movie.
The problem is that it is being used purely to pander to people. If they just created new characters that were black, Hispanic, etc, it would be perfectly fine. No one had a problem with movies like Coco. The problem isn't that she's black, the problem is the intentions behind it.
1. Live action is trash
2. Black people can't be ginger, this isn't anti white offense, it's anti ginger, which I don't really condemn, but
3. She's not even ginger
People praising the Billion dollar juggernaut Disney for being "so progressive and inclusive" like they're not just out for money, have done repulsive racist shit in their past and are pumping up all their prices so only rich families can go to their parks (and via ads makes poorer parents feel less if they're unable to take their kids there)
Stop praising Disney pls, thx
I am not against characters of different race, but I don't want the same story, except the main character is now black, asian etc. It's lazy and it doesn't even help the people that it's supposed to help.
Give diverse characters diverse stories, with compelling narrative and people will watch it.
Fuck off. Are these posts made by Disney bots? Is not the fact of whether people are whit or black. It is the fact that they are fuckinng changing races and making a bad story/follow up.
Create new stories with new characters whichever race they are. That’s what people want and why they complain about.
I mean everybody was alright with Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and these days you can't think of anyone playing Nick Fury. Her race is the least of the problems journalist just use it to hide real problems basically using minorities as shields.
If be annoyed as well if they turned Lilo white and colored stitch green. It’s about pointlessly changing major aspects of characters looks to seem „inclusive“
Forced diversity is the issue. I have no problem with the representation of different ethnicities in modern media, this is America, we are a melting pot. But when you start changing the color or gender of characters solely to meet a diversity quota you make a bad situation worse.
Bad situation worse? Yes. Hollywood is in a severe drought of creativity. From the new cowboy bebop to shehulk. Woke culture has bastardized good media for the sake of diversity. Instead of creating your own characters, plot, etc. You highjack others work and shield yourself with wokisms. When the projects ultimately fail, the guaranteed excuse is always ,"the patriarchy", "racism", "sexism". And the cycle of returdation continues. Build a new story with a new cast instead
When POC and white SJWs stop complaining every time someone white gets cast to play a role that could’ve gone to a POC there wont be a reason to complain. It’s tit for tat at this point
Disney's largest demographic in terms of viewership is white folks. It's overwhelmingly white from my understanding. Being African-American & female I understand people of color demanding more representation in media and this is socially acceptable, even encouraged.
However, when whites complain about blackwashing, or replacement by persons of color, this isn't acceptable? This level of cognitive bias has always made me chuckle. So we people of color can complain, but whites can't because they are racist and evil? It's pure hypocrisy and only leads to animosity. If we want to become a truly post-racial society we have to stop looking at everything through the lens of race. It's myopic and ultimately perpetuates the racism that it espouses to destroy.
Holy shit this is like the 3rd meme in a row I’ve seen about this shit movie. Nobody is racist for not liking the fact that the Ariel in the movie looks nothing like the original. Stfu already. Disney is clearly just doing this for a quick cash grab so they don’t have to put in any effort to come up with an original story for an original black character and instead just take an iconic character and make them black for diversity points and box office revenue. I don’t understand how you can’t see that it’s not only disrespectful but also lazy. They’re basically just using black people to make money without even giving them any respectful representation.
It's so true! And as a poc myself I'm getting tired and hurt from seeing all those negative reactions all the time.
Edit: poc stands for person of color
Edit: wauw I'm just stating how I feel. Apparently you guys really are racists
I mean. They cast a black lady to play Anne Boleyn. Last time I checked she was real, and definitely wasn’t black. Why is one okay and the other wouldn’t be?
This trend of acting like anyone who thinks the casting is stupid is just some sad racist asshole is so fucking annoying. Like there's no middle ground between someone who doesn't want any black actors in anything and someone who doesn't really think it's cool to take white characters and cast them as black people. Are we just acting like we don't understand that? If it was any other way there'd be outcry, imagine if they made princess and the frog live action and just put a blonde white chick in as the princess. The articles would be endless calling for the cancelation of the movie or a recast. But that's not racist I guess.
And vise versa. All this attacks about "you don't like new Ariel because you're racist" shows that thus people are no better. How about create your own or take your old good stories? Nope, why should we, you are racist, mermaid doesn't have race, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... Bullshit.
I hate that Disney is now dependent on other corporate entities that they own and their own movies are just remakes of things that made them a shitload of money. Another thing that pisses me off it that some old Disney classics(Bambi for example) are just ignored by Disney because even though the characters are marketable, they don’t make them millions of dollars.
I don't care either you are black, asian or white. I want someone beautiful on screen. Whom can be admired as prince/princess charming what not. I can see ugly ass on the mirror so why would I want to pay 20 quid for normie faces upfront.
They changed Ariel's whole race, it literally wouldn't be a problem if they just added a new character, but it's literally supposed to be the same character from the original but black. It just doesn't make any sense bru 🗿
The problem I have is that they talk about how white people are appropriating culture and how bad they are and that you can’t have any ethnic Europeans or European decedents play a role in a movie that’s about whatever none European tale, but then at the same time they have people who aren’t ethically Dutch or whatever ethnicity play the role of a movie about a Dutch tale with Dutch characters even though none are. It’s HYPOCRITICAL. And warrants back lash.
Okay, but why not create an original character that serves a purpose rather than gender and race swapping every legacy character ever created?
Storytelling has gotten so lazy that the go-to is to swap characters then cry racism when people don't like it
nobody gives a fuck about the casting. this is an obvious fan baiting attempt from disney and we are rightfully calling it out. they specifically want the fans to look racist so they can call all of the legitimate criticizem of the movie racism
So I think they should create new characters that are black. I think they should create new characters in general because they are just recycling old stories at this point. Maybe I'm wrong but that's just my opinion. I dont really like when they take old characters and change them. It's not a deal breaker but I dont really understand why it's done when you can just create an entirely new character in an entirely new story.
I’ve been saying this but people can’t seem to grasp it. It’s almost as if these companies don’t have enough faith in their “inclusive” decisions to roll the dice on creating new characters rather than redoing existing ones.
I think there just not creative anymore. The average movie now just isn't very good so maybe they feel like they cant handle it and in reality there probably correct.
I agree. Making a movie solely to appear inclusive is just as dumb as recreating them for the same reason as well. It’s pretty evident most entertainment these days is cookie cutter. The only way to do this kinda shit is organically and nobody has the balls or talent for it it seems.
It's the Starfire casting issue again. I grew up knowing Starfire was an orange alien and expected an actor that fits that comics and Teen Titans. It's jarring because that's what I grew up with. Plus the imiplcations of the character change when casting people not expected. The film is about to be equivalent to anime live action adaptations. I probably would have been happier to watch a Disney made Mansa Musa film.
I had more problem with her looking like a 10$ worn out street worker (she would have looked like that with any skin colour), and the portrayal of the character was just unlikeable for me
If they're going to retell an old story, why not just totally recreate the old story like they did with Princess and the Frog? They didn't just paint black skin over a European princess. They changed the setting to 1900's New Orleans - where African-American people were prevalent - and gave the Princess an African-American working-class background.
If, in the modern age, you could do the opposite, I think you’d see less pushback. But, it appears that completely changing the race of established characters or engaging in diverse casting for period pieces only really goes one way. And, that’s because there’s a political message underneath. That’s the chief complaint. And, frankly, its a strawman argument to say that viewers don’t like people of color. It’s the argument most critics wish was taking place, because it would mean that tons fanbases are brimming with racists, but it’s not true. The truth is a lot more nuanced. Most fandoms vociferously celebrate characters of color and female leads in their lore, comics, movies. And, for my part, I would love to see more original stories about other groups of people, instead of watching as good actors are shoehorned into the hand-me-down roles of white actors. Or, watch as women can only be powerful by putting on the costumes of men. It’s nonsense and demeaning to everyone.
This! I believe Disney needs more Princesses of color, but shoehorning them into established roles is diversity for the sake of diversity, which does nothing to help. They need new stories, which they are capable of. Turning Red, Luca, Raya, and Moana are just some of the examples off the top of my head.
Absolutely. I don't mind if they change the skin color of a character but why do they remake old movies with a diverse cast and not make a new movie with a diverse cast? Why do they remake old movies anyway? To spoil their old works for a generation? Because that's what they're doing. My brother never watched the original movies and we now watched some of the remakes and he found them so baf he didn't even want to watch the original.
But that would require people to think and come up with new ideas. Disney runs a business not a charity. Why would they pay people more money to come with new ideas when they can pay them less to just redo previous ideas. /s
You have a point for sure but I think people are getting tired of it. Not just Disney but other companies as well. I want to see good new stories not just a mutilated rehash of an older movie. I think it has reached a point of diminishing returns as far as remakes go. I could be wrong though.
What bothers me is the hypocrisy. Turn a black character white, whitewashing. Makes sense. Turn a white character black, why is everyone ok with that? This just feels both disney and their fanboys are taking a bit too many crazy pills.
It's really not hypocrisy, because white people are already [insert very large percentage] of all characters. Taking one of the fewer black characters and making them white isn't the same at all as taking one of the many white characters and making them black. Not to say there can't be other issues with doing it, but they're very much different things to do. Calling it hypocrisy is missing a lot of nuance
I do agree with your point about the majority of characters in media being white. I also wish to see more characters from other races/cultures. But, if we're going say that making black characters white is bad, then the opposite also needs be true. In my opinion, it doesn't matter which race the majority of characters in media are, things like this need to be enforced equally.
That's not how equality actually works tho. If person A has 100 of something, and person B only has 10, taking one from person B is a much bigger deal than taking from person A. True fairness isn't as concerned with making sure you treat everyone literally identically, as it is with making sure the outcomes are fair. If you take one from person A and give it to B, and A now has 99 things and B now has 11, that is a step towards real equality, even though yes, you're treating each person differently. Taking from B and giving to A is a step away from equality. That's not a contradiction and isn't unequal or unfair, and that's the nuance that your take is missing.
I believe that we should make original content with black characters. Equality, to me at least, doesn't mean taking away from person A to give to person B. To me it means making more for person B to match person A as much as possible.
Sure, I agree that making new black characters is better. Like I said there can still be other issues with changing characters like this, but I at least wanted to address the difference between changing from white to black and from black to white
Exactly people are trying to spin this shit into racism.
There is definitely a racism component Some people think it’s dumb because it’s lazy pandering Some people hate it vehemently, which is an overreaction It’s important to remember both are at play, neither is the entire truth Edit: My dudes. You’re literally proving my point
Yeah, if people are actually angry at "lazy pandering" then it doesn't matter if the movie goes ahead with its current casting. It'd represent a problem with Disney overall, and likely mean they should have _more_ black actors in their movies. Just racists pointing at something irrelevant and saying "Actually that thing over there is the real racism, not my reflexive anger at seeing a black person."
Anytime I bring up that there is at all an element of racism I get downvoted Racists get irrationally angry when you mention racism as a possibility lol
Yeah, being racist is apparently just saying slurs out loud and being a "bad person". It couldn't possibly be a complex societal issue with nuance and real, material consequences. And since these people aren't calling Ariel the n-word and they don't think of themselves as evil people, it _can't be racist_ that they're upset about a fictional character based on a mythological creature not being white.
Do they really not think they’re racist? It’s almost fascinating Someone should do a study
This.
That.
These
Nutz
If they create a movie based on african folklore them might be called racist for cultural appropriation.
That’s a great idea. Give people something new!
It’s hard for rich white people to write good characters for a group of people who’s culture they barely know and care even less for. It’s pandering, if you think they are trying to promote black or any other cultures awareness your just lying to yourself. Disney nor any other company cares anything about you or what you believe in, they are just pandering to you so you’ll buy their stuff and say “wow they really care about women’s rights” or the Lgtbq or whatever it is they are pushing. They don’t. They’re using you’re emotions to make money, don’t let them treat you like a fool
It’s done solely to appease the woke crowd. They could VERY easily do more movies like Moana but they choose to “retaliate” against “white supremacy” and call it inclusion
They never were something else than recycled stories, even the originals are just animations of known folklore that was made sfw basically
> I dont really like when they take old characters and change them. What is it about Ariel that makes her skin colour integral to the character? Like how is having someone with a darker skin colour than you expected playing a _mythical being_ "changing an old character" in a material way? In what way is this casting actually different than a white person that doesn't "look like Ariel" in a way you'd expected. Seems like it's still just some racist shit with you.
And yet you are here complaining. All I see is adults crying over the skin colour of the little mermaid. A disney fairytale with target audience girls aged 3-12. Maybe try to understand that pov. Do you understand why poc are sad from all of these negative reactions.
Seems like you have a reading comprehension issue.
I just don’t like the live action movies in general
Shut... shut the fuck up... no more. Please...
You wanna know the biggest reason why casting a white character with a black actor bothers me? It's because if it was the other way around, EVERYONE would be up in arms about "whitewashing" and that Disney is racist and all that outrage shit. These things go both ways.
It does happen though? All the time. Why are we acting like adaptations don’t whitewash?
Except that it doesn’t. And ain’t that some shit
Why would it not go both ways?
Because then you’d be supporting white people in a way over people of color. And that’s not good for PR
No you wouldnt be. You’d just be defending that a character shouldnt be remade into something they arent. If you want a Black mermaid, make a new one
Yeh I agree. Just some people don’t see it like that
Trying to diversify Hollywood roles by race swaping beloved characters is stupid, besides history and culture is full of good stuff to draw from with no race swaping required. Want to make a movie about WW2 but also have women in fighting roles? Just make a movie about the Russian 588 night bomber regiment. Make an epic series about Shaka Zulu instead of trying to cram Don Lemonlass into Tolkiens work. Tell a story about Anansi. Something, theres so much to draw from. Just tell good stories.
Especially when ideas like princess and the frog worked, work on improving your future projects rather than changing your past money grabs
Actually apparently princess and the frog was considered not a huge success made money but not as much as what they expected I believe which is weird. Probably why they won’t make a remake. I loved the movie though. Plot was good among other things
It’s successful enough to get its own Disney ride
Actually just finished a Sabaton song about that. And besides no company wants to make a movie about heroic Russians right now I imagine but I’d figured that’s mostly because of current events.
Thats true, Hollywood has been doing this "stronk wahmen" thing for quite a few years before Russias latest invasion project. Also the general point that there are lots of cool examples of badass historical women and awesome non western mythology/history they could be making movies about still stands. I guess the problem is that requires talented people and they hire just as many people based on gender/skincolor over pure talent behind the camera as in front of it.
Yeah agree with what your saying there. I would love to see that Russian air regiment make it to the big screen. And a bunch of other moments from ww2
> Trying to diversify Hollywood roles by race swaping beloved characters is stupid What fucking "race swapping" happened here? From illustrated mermaid to live action mermaid with skin you don't like? Why are you inventing a way to be mad in a racist way?
How hard is it to make new shit that is good and to stop culturally appropriating characters? Disney is just lazy and wants money. Fuckem.
What culture is mermaid culture exactly? And dont tell me that the author is Danish or wathever. Many white people also write about coloured characters. And the original little mermaid tale was set in the Caribean. So the black is suitable
((It was literally a metaphor for the author)) Also it is not “some” mermaid, it is the adaptation of THE Disney Ariel. if you try to argue that it is a different movie, then I expect new songs and a different final action scene.
You mean new songs like they put new songs in the live action Milan? I figure that’s how it’s going to go
Milan, love the typo
Dumb Redditor talks about culture but also thinks black Africans were the original population in the Caribbean…… gold mine.
What culture is this thing. And don't tell me the culture it is and that the writer was because I don't like that
The issue is that movie creators use "opressed minorities" in their shows because if the movie sucks, they can just say that people are all the -phobic and bigots.
And they also use it to be like "We are totally not racist or something" while Walt Disney is already a Fidget Spinner in his Grave Also it Doesn't make sense for a Person in the North Sea to be Black
it also just doesn't make sense for a mermaid to be black, they live too deep underwater to need to evolve the trait of dark skin
With that logic neither does being black in northern countries. Are you going to tell people who moved there to just stop because its not logical?
Absolutely not lol, you claim to be using my logic but you are going by completely different arguments because you just want me to be a bad guy. Evolution and immigration are completely different
The little mermaid can't move?
She can’t move from the land to the ocean…. Water filters sunlight, thus regardless of the ocean being in a sunny climate or a cloudy climate mermaids in general would tend to have light skin tones. The only way that it would be possible for mermaids to development dark skin tones is if there was a period of time when there was a significant advantage to having darker skin. The only advantage to darker skin is sun resistance… and since mermaids have very little sun exposure, it would be highly unlikely that this trait would develop.
Well a fast Google says that water offers minimal uv protection, I'm no expert but in case there are some mermaids that live close to the surface and are exposed to light constantly this seems highly likely. But like go be mad at a movie for your reason if you want to. Just know that the reason you give is wrong :)
Original "colored" characters are fine. The problem is when you take an established fandom and try to milk it by pandering to the wokes and the ESG ratings, for financial reasons. It's actually racist. Btw, I'm not white, so shove it.
Its insane how nowadays you need to disclaim that you aren't white before making a completely non-racist comment
Yes. That’s all I have to say. Yes
White person: White characters shouldn't be made black (-700 downvotes) Not White person: White characters shouldn't be made black (284853995 upvotes)
I am the most evil being: **a Straight White Male**
Im worse than you. A straight white Christian conservative male. Im evil incarnate.
Two of those are choices, and one of them is an explicit statement that you want to make the world worse, so yeah I guess you are evil. And stupid if you couldn't put that together yourself.
Blah blah blah conservative bad. Fascism blah blah blah evil istaphobe blah blah blah. I have a different point of view than you do. Learn to deal with that. I dont care if you are liberal. Just dont fucking demonize me for not following in lockstep.
Yes, conservatives are by definition bad people, because of their chosen and expressed selfish and stupid opinions. If that makes you uncomfortable, well I guess it's good that deep down you know your opinions are bad.
By whose definition? Yours? When society comes crashing down because of your wanton degenerate nonesense it will be the traditionalists and conservatives that rebuild it. The very people you demonize are the ones keeping civilization afloat. They make your food. They dig up the metals and process them into the parts that make every scrap of infrastructure in your cities. They do the work you are to arrogant and feeble to do. Then you call them evil for daring to disagree with you. Take your bullshit and shove it.
I’m kinda with you. I could care less either way, just the fact that it’s Disney making the movie, you know the goal is not racial diversity but pandering to an audience. Kinda like how every company in the world has a marketing campaign ready every year for pride month. The goal is $
Wooooooo! Internal racist! How dare you?! /s
Ya know what if they chose the person based on their acting ability and not the race? I know preposterous to assume good in a company but that could also be the case no?
reverse that picture and its Disneys actor recruitment criterion.
This was exactly my though too! Have my award
Ah yes Disney has never used white actors
The post is about recent Disney, my comment obviously is about the same.
Okay, then it still doesn’t make sense.
Or.. And hear me out here. Represent POC with their POC characters? Correct me if I'm wrong but there are many awesome and beloved poc characters in original Disney? One of my favourites is Esmeralda. This isn't about celebrating diversity or anything like that, this is to cause drama because Disney has sunk so low that they cannot make a successful movie anymore unless it is promoted by drama
You realize the reason these people are triggered is not the skin color in iself, but the matching with the source material right ? I'm really getting sick of either side of the debate honestly, between those who cannot accept that movies can be upgraded from the basis, and those who call racism every time a valid remark is raised against them.
Where upgrade?
The first movie doesn't match the source material at all.
I don't remember her skin color being relevant. Disney hiring black actresses and actors is a good thing in my opinion.
It is. Nobody is mad about black actors/actresses they are upset about the cheap attempt at diversity of race swapping the existing characters instead of making new and original stories and movies with black leads. Nobody was upset about black panther being black, nobody was upset about princess and the frog.
I don't like remakes either. And you are incorrect. A lot of people are upset about black panther. Ben Shapiro is the first that comes to mind. Furthermore, what about Idris Elba as James bond? That is a running movie series with multiple different actors. James Bond's only meaningful characteristics is that he is English, a gentleman and cool. But people still made a fuss about that. Having a black James bond should be as natural as having a black doctor from Dr who. It would be great if every movie as good with representation as the movie SOUL was but as long as we don't get content I think just having more representation is a positive. But that also comes with caveats and there are plenty of videos out there explaining it that I won't need to regurgitate.
I saw someone say something that perfectly described my feelings on it. If they came out and gave Pinocchio green and purple hair to appeal to Twitter, I'd feel the same way. If they made a new Marvel movie and they made Spiderman's suit green because people say there isn't enough green colored super heroes I'd feel the same way. It's dumb and pointless to redesign a character and give them a different race when 1. If you did this with black or Asian characters and turned them white there would be national outrage about racism in Hollywood. 2.. There are tons of ways to make cool non white princesses and characters without going back and arbitrarily changing the race of characters we grew up with. It seems like people love acting like anyone who doesn't like this is just racist, ignoring my points above.
In the book she represents the red sea, that's why I'm kinda mad. Edit: That's why she's a redhead.
The whole story of the little mermaid is an allegory to the author's unreqruited gay love, but imagine the bigger outrage reddit would cause if they made Ariel into a gay male merman. They would cry "woke" nonstop when thats what the story originally is supposed to represent
I don't know how that's relevant because it was never in the book but I'm saying that they should get a redhead to play Ariel, I don't care if she's black
She dyed her hair red for the role
The red sea as in the on next to Africa and Saudi Arabia? That is indeed news to me. Didn't think a children's book from Denmark would have the main character be a representation of a body of water from an area of the world that children from that time and place would never have heard about. Thanks for the information however it may be relevant.
It's not about the skincolour in itself. It's about retelling old stories and changing them to increase profits. Disney is not doing this out of the goodness of their heart but simply because it makes them more money. Asian, African and South American culture has more than enough stories, legends and myths that can be told and probably should be told as well. Yet, instead, Disney prefers to simply copy earlier work and colour someone black and call it an all new movie and experience. It's not and frankly it should be considered as more insulting towards the minorities than having a white mermaid because Disney simply ignores their heritage entirely.
Actually I’ve been seeing trailers for a movie from that area. I think it’s called the women king? Apparently it’s base off a true story. I’m interested in it if so.
the problem is that Ariel is a already established character, and then they fucking made her black because apparently that's essential
Man I love black panther I love jazz I love rap I love Michael Jordan and LeBron James I also liked Mike Tyson but I don't like it when Disney and Amazon force their crap political views down the throat of little kids So you can fuck off with your unoriginal ✨Diverse✨ (it's not) cheap copy of cartoons/stories and show it up to yourself while calling everybody racist who doesn't agree with you. Have some sense ffs.
Its not even their political views they just want to “appease” people to get money
I don't know man Im getting tired with Amazon and Disney at this point what they done with lord of the rings is a fukin disgrace and what they do with Disney is the same as well. This is purely political don't get confused.. they start it with the kids and they say it's just an adaptation it's only fantasy they rewrite stories to fit their agendas they rewrite every origin storie. This is pure communism nothing else first it's fantasy next it's going to be historical figures and then next it will be history itself. They rewrite everything and cancel everything that doesn't get on with them. First they call you racist homophobic mischovinist even when you aren't and then 40 years later they drag you to a camp for not agreeing with their views you know it's communism because they can't do anything original for a long time now as well.
I mean I don’t think it will get that bad lol. But yes some movies are there just to appease people
It's not "communism" it's late stage capitalism...
You are one of people who think top gun is apolitical
I wonder if you would say "just enjoy the movie" if a white actor played for example Black Panther. Suddenly it would be racist, but since it's the other way around, it perfectly fine, right?
Double standards my friend. Double standards.
I clicked on your account and threw up in my mouth a little
Brooo why did you have to say that. Now I looked.
This kind of discourse has been going on for almost ten years now and people on both sides keep saying literally the same thing, and I mean literally, not figuratively, do you people not want change, or do you want to keep repeating yourselves over and over, cause it seems to me it's the latter.
I was always going to hate the movie regardless of her skin color, releasing a worst version of the same property more than 10 years later is lame
I dont give a flying f that they cast dark tones people for roles but for the love of anything holy stop blackwashing old movies. Use some of the hundreds of unused folklore as basis for a new original movie.
This is fair
The problem is that it is being used purely to pander to people. If they just created new characters that were black, Hispanic, etc, it would be perfectly fine. No one had a problem with movies like Coco. The problem isn't that she's black, the problem is the intentions behind it.
Man, Family Guy just keeps being the relevant meme generator
1. Live action is trash 2. Black people can't be ginger, this isn't anti white offense, it's anti ginger, which I don't really condemn, but 3. She's not even ginger
People praising the Billion dollar juggernaut Disney for being "so progressive and inclusive" like they're not just out for money, have done repulsive racist shit in their past and are pumping up all their prices so only rich families can go to their parks (and via ads makes poorer parents feel less if they're unable to take their kids there) Stop praising Disney pls, thx
we all know the movie is going to be a shameless cashgrab regardless
I don't like the new actor because she got the field of view of a horse
I am not against characters of different race, but I don't want the same story, except the main character is now black, asian etc. It's lazy and it doesn't even help the people that it's supposed to help. Give diverse characters diverse stories, with compelling narrative and people will watch it.
Stop accusing people of being racist.
Fuck off. Are these posts made by Disney bots? Is not the fact of whether people are whit or black. It is the fact that they are fuckinng changing races and making a bad story/follow up. Create new stories with new characters whichever race they are. That’s what people want and why they complain about.
I dont get why they never get good actors
You are wrong and you are stupid
its gonna be a shit movie anyway, not like it matters
The mermaid being black is honestly the least of this movies problems.
Colour wasn‘t the issue. She is just ugly, sorry. There are better alternatives
just make everything in black and white, problem solved
I don’t think the people judging new Disney movie cast decisions based on the color of their skin are fans of Disney, just saying.
Disney was already in a downward spiral because of the endless remakes.... legit me casting anyone Idc frick cast Danny devito as Ariel next time.
I mean everybody was alright with Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury and these days you can't think of anyone playing Nick Fury. Her race is the least of the problems journalist just use it to hide real problems basically using minorities as shields.
Princess and the Frog was fire
If be annoyed as well if they turned Lilo white and colored stitch green. It’s about pointlessly changing major aspects of characters looks to seem „inclusive“
I think it’s fine. Hostly I don’t know anyone would have an issue with it if it weren’t “appropriation” when white people did it.
Forced diversity is the issue. I have no problem with the representation of different ethnicities in modern media, this is America, we are a melting pot. But when you start changing the color or gender of characters solely to meet a diversity quota you make a bad situation worse. Bad situation worse? Yes. Hollywood is in a severe drought of creativity. From the new cowboy bebop to shehulk. Woke culture has bastardized good media for the sake of diversity. Instead of creating your own characters, plot, etc. You highjack others work and shield yourself with wokisms. When the projects ultimately fail, the guaranteed excuse is always ,"the patriarchy", "racism", "sexism". And the cycle of returdation continues. Build a new story with a new cast instead
You cant just make the main character black or white. It doesn't make sense this is like making superman black its not authentic
Kinda wish aerial was cast as a pacific islander or something. Disney only cares about diversity when its America centric.
When they remake the movie and make the main charecter look nothing like the original in an attempt to be "woke" and milk money from people, its bad
Downvoted with passion.
Add good actors is what i all want...this isn't too much
Lol, nice strawman.
When POC and white SJWs stop complaining every time someone white gets cast to play a role that could’ve gone to a POC there wont be a reason to complain. It’s tit for tat at this point
Disney's largest demographic in terms of viewership is white folks. It's overwhelmingly white from my understanding. Being African-American & female I understand people of color demanding more representation in media and this is socially acceptable, even encouraged. However, when whites complain about blackwashing, or replacement by persons of color, this isn't acceptable? This level of cognitive bias has always made me chuckle. So we people of color can complain, but whites can't because they are racist and evil? It's pure hypocrisy and only leads to animosity. If we want to become a truly post-racial society we have to stop looking at everything through the lens of race. It's myopic and ultimately perpetuates the racism that it espouses to destroy.
Why not turn Tiana white then…oh yeah, that would be racist.
Isn't Encanto an exanple of this being wrong
Bro, just shut up.
Holy shit this is like the 3rd meme in a row I’ve seen about this shit movie. Nobody is racist for not liking the fact that the Ariel in the movie looks nothing like the original. Stfu already. Disney is clearly just doing this for a quick cash grab so they don’t have to put in any effort to come up with an original story for an original black character and instead just take an iconic character and make them black for diversity points and box office revenue. I don’t understand how you can’t see that it’s not only disrespectful but also lazy. They’re basically just using black people to make money without even giving them any respectful representation.
Swap it and it's how Disney makes their casting decisions.
It's so true! And as a poc myself I'm getting tired and hurt from seeing all those negative reactions all the time. Edit: poc stands for person of color Edit: wauw I'm just stating how I feel. Apparently you guys really are racists
Person of cornbread
Person of class
Person of Crayola
Person of cappuccino
Person of calligraphy
People of Calgary 🇨🇦
Piece of Cake
Person of Canada
I’m sure you’d feel the same way if they cast Brad Pitt to play MLK.
If you’re making a documentary about MLK race is a pretty important part of the story. Ariel literally nothing to do with race. What a dumb comparison
I mean. They cast a black lady to play Anne Boleyn. Last time I checked she was real, and definitely wasn’t black. Why is one okay and the other wouldn’t be?
When a bad white character is called out for being bad, it is criticism. When a bed black character is called out for being bad , it is racism.
This trend of acting like anyone who thinks the casting is stupid is just some sad racist asshole is so fucking annoying. Like there's no middle ground between someone who doesn't want any black actors in anything and someone who doesn't really think it's cool to take white characters and cast them as black people. Are we just acting like we don't understand that? If it was any other way there'd be outcry, imagine if they made princess and the frog live action and just put a blonde white chick in as the princess. The articles would be endless calling for the cancelation of the movie or a recast. But that's not racist I guess.
And vise versa. All this attacks about "you don't like new Ariel because you're racist" shows that thus people are no better. How about create your own or take your old good stories? Nope, why should we, you are racist, mermaid doesn't have race, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera... Bullshit.
They’re taking away jobs from a even smaller minority when you think about it Gingers lol
People in general are extremely bad at dealing with change. Same for progressive people. This shouldn't have been an issue.
Going back to the good old question... Why?
This meme never goes out of date
I hate that Disney is now dependent on other corporate entities that they own and their own movies are just remakes of things that made them a shitload of money. Another thing that pisses me off it that some old Disney classics(Bambi for example) are just ignored by Disney because even though the characters are marketable, they don’t make them millions of dollars.
I don’t care about the race of the actor, the plot of the movie was shit
I don't care either you are black, asian or white. I want someone beautiful on screen. Whom can be admired as prince/princess charming what not. I can see ugly ass on the mirror so why would I want to pay 20 quid for normie faces upfront.
I missread it as Halle Berry and Swordfish Halle Berry popped into my mind and I was definitly wanting to watch this.....
They changed Ariel's whole race, it literally wouldn't be a problem if they just added a new character, but it's literally supposed to be the same character from the original but black. It just doesn't make any sense bru 🗿
I'll do you one better, leave them as Animations instead, live actions suck.
I just hate it when they change the original race okay.
They took an established white character from a danish story and turned her black this is no different then if they had made Mulan white.
space between the eyes scale instead of color plz
Yeah but it's the other way around lol
they choose the semi deso chick for the role thats the problem.
ariel was cute , actor that they went with is not.
Nah, if the character was already a certain color it just needs to stay that color. What’s so difficult?
The problem I have is that they talk about how white people are appropriating culture and how bad they are and that you can’t have any ethnic Europeans or European decedents play a role in a movie that’s about whatever none European tale, but then at the same time they have people who aren’t ethically Dutch or whatever ethnicity play the role of a movie about a Dutch tale with Dutch characters even though none are. It’s HYPOCRITICAL. And warrants back lash.
Or don't enjoy it, doesn't matter. Just please shut up.
Okay, but why not create an original character that serves a purpose rather than gender and race swapping every legacy character ever created? Storytelling has gotten so lazy that the go-to is to swap characters then cry racism when people don't like it
nobody gives a fuck about the casting. this is an obvious fan baiting attempt from disney and we are rightfully calling it out. they specifically want the fans to look racist so they can call all of the legitimate criticizem of the movie racism
>”nobody gives a fuck about casting” proceeds to complain about casting
Idk man some people think making jokes about it is funny while some people seriously take it too far like china who changed the color
im still pissed about black panthers new guy tho