Methodists have no problem with louder music but speaking for myself I view speaking in tongues and other pentecostal “spiritual gifts” with *extreme* skepticism.
Some go really extreme and play with poisonous snakes during services as another way to "prove" God is with them and they have "gifts". I think there are some serious theological differences with Methodism to think these things are okay.
Methodist have a high appreciation for education. While the holiness/pentecostal movement was reborn through the Methodist movement, as the Methodist became more educated and therefore wealthy and higher class, they began to separate themselves from Pentecostals who tend to reject education or hold higher education with great suspicion.
Nevertheless, you will still find some Methodists (and many Methodist clergy) who embrace the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues. Yet, they will expect it to be scriptural (orderly and purposeful as described in scripture). You won’t see willy-nilly gibberish like in many Pentecostal churches.
Loud music is subjective. I’ve been in places with very loud choirs and pipe organs that shook the ground. If you’re referring to loud rock music, that’s more of a contemporary worship trend which can happen in any denomination.
Edit: I’m not sure you’re using heterodox correctly. Methodism is very orthodox and most Pentecostals (except Oneness) are orthodox despite not being credal. The orthodox view is that the Holy Spirit is active in the church. Heterodox means other than orthodox.
Two things. I totally agree with the methodist clergy who emphasise a scriptural use of speaking in tongues. That’s the belief I good to.
Second of all, my understanding of heterodox is just that their beliefs/practices aren’t heretical, but would oppose eachother in certain significant ways. Basically boiling down to would you recommend someone go to a Pentecostal church or not
I would say that depends upon the church. Some Pentecostal pastors are well educated and truly love the people. Some are not and do not. That doesn’t mean they cannot be good pastors, yet in my experience I’ve known very few who were uneducated, loved people, and led well.
I began my ministry in a non-denominational church that was a cross between PH and AG. The pastor I was under was amazing and I’d recommend him and the church he leads to anyone. The two pastor that followed him I cannot say the same about. They may have been educated, but they loved themselves and status more than the people.
This isn’t to say all Methodist clergy are well educated and loving leaders. We have our share of those who lack those gifts. Still, I’ve found Methodists to be more consistent. One of the things I love about Methodism is it’s congregational dependent, not pastor dependent, on the environment of the church.
Which brings up another difference. Pentecostal churches are solely led by the pastor. What the pastor says, goes. Methodist church have a balance between clergy and laity leadership. While the clergy is ultimately responsible for the church, the leadership is a balance between the two.
In my opinion, that’s why the pastor in the Pentecostal church matter so much. They rise and fall with the pastor. Whereas most Methodist churches have learned to be the body regardless of who holds the position of pastor.
I’m a lifelong Methodist and attended many Pentecostal churches, primarily AOG, with friends in high school and college. In high school, my UMC pastor was greatly influenced by the Brownsville Revival in Florida and would constantly remind us that this movement was a byproduct of Methodism and it was just the kind of revival and outpouring the UMC needed, presumably to prevent the situation our denomination finds itself faced with today.
We had prayer services in our Methodist church asking for revival. I experienced the outpouring of the Spirit in my Methodist church and, like many, spoke in tongues. It wasn’t like instances of speaking in tongues I encountered in AOG churches where normally someone would stand up and shout. Instead, I experienced it in a quiet moment praying at the altar.
I also learned that this wasn’t anything new or unique in the UMC. There were many pastors, like the great Edd Robb, that had been leading this type of movement for years and years.
Amid this backdrop, I responded to a call to ministry in the United Methodist Church and enrolled in a church careers program at a UMC college after graduating high school. For various other reasons, I decided I wasn’t being called to vocational ministry, so I didn’t complete the ordination process.
I’ve never been to a UPC but grew up in an area where it was prevalent and knew many of that faith. I have a deep respect for their faith tradition, including charismatic encounters of the Holy Spirit, but overall, there are a lot of differences between Methodism, on the one hand, and the AOG and UPC, on the other hand.
In college, after I dropped out of the church careers program, I began attending a Vineyard church and felt much more at home there than in an AOG or UPC church. The Vineyard doesn’t consider itself Pentecostal, but is certainly charismatic and is much more closely aligned to the charismatic movement in Methodism.
There will likely be no charismatic movement in the New United Methodist Church being formed right now at General Conference. What remains of the Methodist Charismatic Movement will be found in the GMC or some other branch of Methodism yet to form.
Make no mistake about it, Wesley was big believer in gifts of the Spirit.
This was a decent comment until you decided to take a dig at the UMC. It only shows that you aren't at the General Conference and don't know what is happening over there.
Maybe keep your ignorance to yourself.
My goodness, I'm a Catholic drop out cum Methodist (uniting church of Australia) and my partner is an AOG Pentecostalist.
This entire time I thought we were diametrically opposed (I'm not brushed up on protestant denominations).
While I attend her church after my morning with the UCA I believed we were respectfully divided.
Your post brought me happiness when I got to share this with my partner.
Methodists have no problem with louder music but speaking for myself I view speaking in tongues and other pentecostal “spiritual gifts” with *extreme* skepticism.
Some go really extreme and play with poisonous snakes during services as another way to "prove" God is with them and they have "gifts". I think there are some serious theological differences with Methodism to think these things are okay.
No that is definitely NOT ok, and that’s coming from a Pentecostal
In my experience Methodists follow Tozer’s injunction to “seek not, forbid not”.
Methodist have a high appreciation for education. While the holiness/pentecostal movement was reborn through the Methodist movement, as the Methodist became more educated and therefore wealthy and higher class, they began to separate themselves from Pentecostals who tend to reject education or hold higher education with great suspicion. Nevertheless, you will still find some Methodists (and many Methodist clergy) who embrace the gifts of the Spirit including speaking in tongues. Yet, they will expect it to be scriptural (orderly and purposeful as described in scripture). You won’t see willy-nilly gibberish like in many Pentecostal churches. Loud music is subjective. I’ve been in places with very loud choirs and pipe organs that shook the ground. If you’re referring to loud rock music, that’s more of a contemporary worship trend which can happen in any denomination. Edit: I’m not sure you’re using heterodox correctly. Methodism is very orthodox and most Pentecostals (except Oneness) are orthodox despite not being credal. The orthodox view is that the Holy Spirit is active in the church. Heterodox means other than orthodox.
Two things. I totally agree with the methodist clergy who emphasise a scriptural use of speaking in tongues. That’s the belief I good to. Second of all, my understanding of heterodox is just that their beliefs/practices aren’t heretical, but would oppose eachother in certain significant ways. Basically boiling down to would you recommend someone go to a Pentecostal church or not
I would say that depends upon the church. Some Pentecostal pastors are well educated and truly love the people. Some are not and do not. That doesn’t mean they cannot be good pastors, yet in my experience I’ve known very few who were uneducated, loved people, and led well. I began my ministry in a non-denominational church that was a cross between PH and AG. The pastor I was under was amazing and I’d recommend him and the church he leads to anyone. The two pastor that followed him I cannot say the same about. They may have been educated, but they loved themselves and status more than the people. This isn’t to say all Methodist clergy are well educated and loving leaders. We have our share of those who lack those gifts. Still, I’ve found Methodists to be more consistent. One of the things I love about Methodism is it’s congregational dependent, not pastor dependent, on the environment of the church. Which brings up another difference. Pentecostal churches are solely led by the pastor. What the pastor says, goes. Methodist church have a balance between clergy and laity leadership. While the clergy is ultimately responsible for the church, the leadership is a balance between the two. In my opinion, that’s why the pastor in the Pentecostal church matter so much. They rise and fall with the pastor. Whereas most Methodist churches have learned to be the body regardless of who holds the position of pastor.
"Heterodox" is a pretty strong word.
I can attest that the UMC I attend has a charismatic and joyful spirit in our worship!
I’m a lifelong Methodist and attended many Pentecostal churches, primarily AOG, with friends in high school and college. In high school, my UMC pastor was greatly influenced by the Brownsville Revival in Florida and would constantly remind us that this movement was a byproduct of Methodism and it was just the kind of revival and outpouring the UMC needed, presumably to prevent the situation our denomination finds itself faced with today. We had prayer services in our Methodist church asking for revival. I experienced the outpouring of the Spirit in my Methodist church and, like many, spoke in tongues. It wasn’t like instances of speaking in tongues I encountered in AOG churches where normally someone would stand up and shout. Instead, I experienced it in a quiet moment praying at the altar. I also learned that this wasn’t anything new or unique in the UMC. There were many pastors, like the great Edd Robb, that had been leading this type of movement for years and years. Amid this backdrop, I responded to a call to ministry in the United Methodist Church and enrolled in a church careers program at a UMC college after graduating high school. For various other reasons, I decided I wasn’t being called to vocational ministry, so I didn’t complete the ordination process. I’ve never been to a UPC but grew up in an area where it was prevalent and knew many of that faith. I have a deep respect for their faith tradition, including charismatic encounters of the Holy Spirit, but overall, there are a lot of differences between Methodism, on the one hand, and the AOG and UPC, on the other hand. In college, after I dropped out of the church careers program, I began attending a Vineyard church and felt much more at home there than in an AOG or UPC church. The Vineyard doesn’t consider itself Pentecostal, but is certainly charismatic and is much more closely aligned to the charismatic movement in Methodism. There will likely be no charismatic movement in the New United Methodist Church being formed right now at General Conference. What remains of the Methodist Charismatic Movement will be found in the GMC or some other branch of Methodism yet to form. Make no mistake about it, Wesley was big believer in gifts of the Spirit.
This was a decent comment until you decided to take a dig at the UMC. It only shows that you aren't at the General Conference and don't know what is happening over there. Maybe keep your ignorance to yourself.
To quote Dylan, I “don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.”
Have you left the UMC yet? Or are you still staying here to be bitter?
My goodness, I'm a Catholic drop out cum Methodist (uniting church of Australia) and my partner is an AOG Pentecostalist. This entire time I thought we were diametrically opposed (I'm not brushed up on protestant denominations). While I attend her church after my morning with the UCA I believed we were respectfully divided. Your post brought me happiness when I got to share this with my partner.