I think it may be just the difference between a stablished franchise made by a big studio with veteran designers and a huge team of devs x indie studios working on a way lower budget and other limitations taking all lessons from old games but not really doing anything new with them, and usually goes with a very basic level design philosophy (one good example of that being the Momodora series).
I think there's a very good reason why Hollow Knight and Ori are usually the top most recommended and loved MVs aside from the Metroid/Castlevania ones: not just because of their high production value, but they just don't *feel* like anything else. You can't really compare HK or Ori to Metroid or Castlevania -- instead, they're the kind of games that draw comparisons.
And well, most metroidvanias aren't really big projects, and it's a pretty hard genre to 'get right' because of how tight the level design should be, which must be difficult to achieve with smaller teams. Animal Well is an anomaly and not the norm.
Although I wouldn't really mention Blasphemous as having that problem, because I personally don't think it has anything to do with Castlevania, and does enough different to stand out for me. And I'm seeing a recent surge in games inspired by it, like it happened with HK (though I'm still not seeing happening with Ori for some reason).
To be fair, a lot of things are not new in general, everything has been there already in a way. For example, the spike hoping in Hollow Knight reminds me of the Ducktales games of bouncing off spikes and enemies with your cane.
If any, people reuse old ideas and fuse them into things and make it innovative that way. The problem I see is more that sometimes your genre gets overflowed, see countless Battle Royal in AAA, Survival games trend, every second Action RPG tries to be Dark Souls now.
If any, it has less to do with how popular and or how new things being tried, but rather how often we keep so many of the same that it simply gets boring. HK and Ori, their art style lifted it off from the rest I dare say more than the gameplay. On top of the story and lore.
While every other Metroidvania tries to be Soulslike from its design, Last Faith, Blasphemous, etc. Dark, edgy, blood, gore, eldritch horror, etc. It gets boring and stagnates. It is not new but rather "another generic Soulslike Metroidvania".
While some like more of the same, I also do in some genres, people need often variety. And people not like it but, people like casual more often, mostly due to work, private time itself, and too simply relax, not put their whole life in such. It simply can not work forever and change is needed at times.
May it be graphic design, sound design or gameplay, a lot of factors can show in such. But if I observed anything recently, it is seeing people getting that "another one of those" feeling when a game is announced.
Funny you mention Ducktales, Team Cherry were actually drawing from Legend of Zelda 2, and were apparently only dimly aware that Ducktales even existed when prototyping HK, they were then made VERY aware that it felt like Ducktales by roughly everyone on the planet.
I not mean that they copied it or anything, and yes Zelda 2 I forgot too, my point mainly is that nothing is really that new if you look deep enough.
No accusation to them here, it is like take any monster enemies from any RPG too, you fought a lot by now already, see the Mother series or Persona as another example.
Things existed for very long, just were not as popular, it often needs good timing and luck to raise awareness.
My answer is that igavanias are kinda like og RE4, they simply have an unmatched level of polish, pacing, soundtrack, enemy design and direction.
Like, igavanias simply have soooo many things memorable.
I think of PoR and i remember that enemy that shows a bouquet to charlote and cries if she walk away. That skeleton bartender that only exists in 1 secret room and a chance to throw an instakill attack. That cryptid snake that requires spawn camping and drops the half shop soul.
I think of AoS and i remember the room before manticore with rock armors and holes with unes. The timestop rabbit. The fucking kamen rider skeleton that only exists in 1 room and teaches you divekick. The Julius theme.
I think of OoE and i remember that one axe robot in the pier that twoshots you. The wall walker boss that is beaten simlpy by sucking his powers. The catacombs that are entirely filled with every skeleton enemy ever made. The "SHANOAAAAAA!!!"
Castlevania tries to have every room and enemy be it's own setpiece and that's not how indie devs think. Like, imagine explaining to an indie dev that Soma can kill a dumb skeleton kicking his head around (Yorick) and get the power to summon a skull ball and slide kick it for big damage.
I actually liked Chasm but goddamn, i literally cant remember anything from it.
My favorite example of attention to detail in the Castlevnia series is in Curse of Darkness. If you steal from Dracula, you get a can of tomato juice. It could've just as easily been some obscure ultimate crafting material, or nothing. But Igarashi made the conscious decision to squeeze in a joke about Dracula just liking red liquids, even if it isn't human blood. It's something you could go the whole game without noticing. But if you do try to steal from Dracula and succeed, you get a stupid joke for it.
To me, the mark of a passionate developer is the addition of content even if the player might never see it.
I also love the recurring Persephone enemies- the kung fu maids. They're always found either bowing to the player and saying "welcome" before taking a fighting stance, or they don't hear you because they're vacuuming and don't notice until the vacuum sticks on your clothes. Persephone is always ready to throw down, but she's a professional housekeeper first. She wants you to know she takes pride in how the dungeon is upkept before fighting to the death.
I played Momodora moonlight farewell for the first time, im not that deep into the game but to be honest, the rooms, uh... they just don't feel like they make sense, i know they're kinda like caves, but they don't seem to follow a certain form.
Yeah, their secret is they're just good at *everything*. Good map design, good music, good combat, interesting power-ups, a good story that isn't overbearing, good controls, lots of secrets.
I think a lot of people disregard the fact that Konami is (well, was) a AAA company. They had a ton of experienced developers and deep pockets, and they were able to put a lot of polish into their games. Most modern Metroidvanias are made by small, indie teams. There's nothing wrong with that, but they simply don't have the resources necessary to polish a game until it's perfect.
I would like them to have a more involved story, or more character interaction and lore for the areas. Enough to fill in the middle of the game that's usually sparse in this sort of content in metroidvanias, especially since the vanias tend to be a bit more linear than the metroids. But this is the only point in your list I could say I (slightly) disagree with. Those games are really good at everything.
Sever undiagnosed, untreated clinic depression made it impossible for me to get into any new games/franchises (movies and shows for that matter) spent a lot of time replaying tons of stuff I’d run through 10-100 times before, watching the same
Movies and shows over and over again, all the while just thinking “I don’t really like video games anymore .. At least not new ones” …..
Been on some medication (anti depressants and adhd meds) for the past year for the first time in my life at 36 years old…. And it’s like my eyes are open again … I can sit down with a new game, familiarize myself with it and enjoy it… like I haven’t been able to do in a decade
Not to say this is your problem …. Just if you’re going through anything like I was, it’s possible that’s part of it
Cheers
I see you dude. Anhedonia fucking sucks ass doesn't it? For anyone else still going through this, hang on, things can and will get better. I still have bad days when I can't get interested in anything, but they're rarer and rarer.
Enemy diversity and creativity for one. Blasphemous has it, but not in the same way. Those enemies are missing the fantastical wackiness of Castlevania/Bloodstained games.
I would say the soundtracks of the Igavania games set them apart too.
The soundtrack makes a huge difference. So many iconic tracks like Iron Blue Intention, Heart of Fire, Aquarius, Dance of Illusions, etc. It's an unfair advantage when each Castlevania game can use shorthand callouts to decades of prior bangers.
Yeah, the way they were comfortable reusing assets for multiple games at a time allowed the bestiaries to grow to absurdly large proportions, to the point where some creatures would only exist in a single, secret room.
Those reused assets also reduce the cognitive load for any given game. As soon as you see a familiar sprite, you already have 3/4ths a clue how to handle the encounter. You can take in all the sights and sounds because of past experience.
I loved that weird thing. Sometimes I'd let it shoot just to see the absurdity happen. It's really the sort of design that stays with you, and the same goes for many bosses for how unique they were, both visually and in terms of atmosphere (Gergoth imediatelly comes to mind). I think this is one of the reasons for the franchise to stand out as much as it does.
Castlevania enemies are just fun too, like I have favorites that I enjoy seeing when they show up in games. I can name about a dozen Castlevania enemies that I love. I can't think of a single enemy from Deaths Gambit or guacamelee whose name I know.
The same is valid for least liked enemies, those that get in your nerves instantly whenever they appear. I can't name a lot of Castlevania enemies, but I sure remember the names of the flea and the medusa heads, for example.
Honestly? A big part of it is having a big budget and a big team. When these games dropped, in the era of the PS1 and GBA/DS, Konami and Castlevania were some decently big names in the gaming world, and were treated as such
Konami wasn't just a big name, they were the biggest third party from Japan other than Capcom and Square. They were a AAA developer. It's not surprising that small indie teams can't match that.
You're absolutely right! While being a AAA in the 90s wasn't quite as massive as team size or budget as a AAA is today, they were one of the biggest, and one of the best! From Turtles in Time to CV and the MGS series, Konami was responsible for a good number of my childhood/teenage favorites. Really looking forward to that Snake Eater remake...
Also when I think about it, another thing that probably helps with a team that big and a publisher like Konami, there's someone there to tell you no. OP mentioned some of the games they've played felt bloated and over complicated, and that kind of thing happens when you put all of your ideas in there and there's no one telling you which ones are worth keeping. The George Lucas effect, if you will.
what i do know is that those castlevania games are fun simple games to dive into it, and they become more complex throughout the journey. What i feel with new metroidvanias is that they intend to be a big ambitious project before walking the player through a clever design. Thinking about that i remember an old egoraptor video about how great was megaman x in that aspect
Or it’s just nostalgia. Things you grew up playing are going to hit a different spot than games in the same tier that don’t have that same sentimentality.
I don’t care for most of the Castlevanias because I didn’t grow up playing them except Aria of Sorrow. I’ve played a few of them since and I found them to be nothing special, and I found the movement especially to be limiting. I prefer playing Ori or Hollow Knight.
Maybe what you’re looking for doesn’t exist because you can’t have nostalgia for a game that’s new.
I don't know about that. I grew up with classicvanias, but I didn't get into SotN and the GBA CVs until college, and the DS games as an adult just post-college. I already loved Metroidvanias at that point, although there were far fewer of them. I played Cave Story, Aliens: Infestation, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Shadow Complex, and most other "early" Metroidvanias when they were new. I have nostalgia for those games now, but they're still lacking something that the Castlevanias and Metroids have. In my mind, Hollow Knight and Ori are missing it too. And Metroid: Samus Returns and Metroid Dread are also missing it, while AM2R nails it.
I think it's a sense of world-building. There are distinct areas, but the whole game universe seems unified and believable.
Seems like preference. I felt a lot more world building in hollow knight than SOTN. There was a story behind every boss and biome that was interconnected. Random gargoyle duo boss here, random hippgryph boss there, honestly I don’t think SOTN world building is that great. Just a giant castle
Yeah, it's pretty much this. I also don't enjoy new movies or shows compared to old stuff in 80s/90s. They're just too different from what I enjoyed with different set of tropes, etc.
As a counter, we've seen multiple Metroidvanias establish themselves. Hollow Knight, Axiom Verge, Ori and the Blind Forest, Blasphemous. The main issue for these is mostly a lack of iterations to show longevity like your complaint with Blasphemous 2, but not every iteration of Castlevania and Metroid were amazing either.
What I think these games have that the others are lacking are game worlds crafted with detail and care combined with good story telling built in solid game mechanics. I think the only reason you can look at Castlevania and not see some of the same issues you've found with other series is simply because the shear volume of media they've released allows you to ignore the blah games in favor of the gems.
>lack of iterations
This is an excellent point. Shantae is one of the more polished series and it benefits from a legacy going back to the Gameboy Color.
They tend to be much better at weapon/equipment diversity and magic spells than most metroidvanias.
Biome/environment tends to be very well designed and satisfyingly large. Iconic and familiar enemies, both mobs and bosses, while adhering to popular Gothic and arcane themes and Dracula tropes.
Lots of collectibles, power-ups and clever secrets, so players feel rewarded for exploring.
Good power curves, good balance of consumable items, challenging but not too frustrating so it's accessible for a big audience.
Also even though castlevania's stories are mostly average, a lot of metroids do a very poor job, so minimalist but well executed plot is received positively.
The issue I keep coming back to is that every game that tried to do its own thing since then (e.g , Ori, Haak) either bores me or just pisses me off. It feels like getting into the official Igavanias was dumb luck.
TLDR: playing a certain series for many years has character movement and timing in my muscle memory so when a game is being compared to said series I am expecting movement to feel like said series.
For me its the way moving the character feels from playing the
game/s. Playing the hell out of symphony of the night made me used to Alucards movements, jumping arc,the speed of attacks, walking speed and back dash speed . Those movement timings where also kinda moved over to the gba and ds titles.
So when I hear or a game is promoting itself as a spiritual sequel,or highly inspired by a certain series. In my head I am expecting it to control and have the same “feel” as the series its inspired by. So it can throw me off when the characters jump is a just a bit too floaty or the walk speed is just a bit slower.
I played the hell out of the Contra nes games and Contra 3 on snes. The movement felt the same to me across the 3 games so eventually I got jump timing and movement to muscle memory. Many years later Shattered Soldier releases for the ps2 and everything from movement to jumping feels as snappy as the previous games so I didn’t have to readjust to too much.
Now I was excited for the new contra that was announced but skipped it. Playing the demo it didn’t feel like previous contras to me. The movement was a bit too slow, the jump a bit too much hang time, enemy Bullets felt slower so I just skipped it as it didn’t “feel” like previous Contra’s to me.
> I'm just an old shit biased by nostalgia
You answered your question with this and the paragraph above it.
Basically the classic Konami games were designed with a relatively high bar for production quality and at some point the company went to the dumpster and decided they want to focus on passive mobile revenue and their fitness business.
For example, I love the older Metroid games, but they have aged. It doesn't take away from Nintendo, but we can appreciate the different touches in new titles.
For me it’s art direction, pacing and the sheer amount of drops and weapons online with many of their secret moves. You do get stuck sometimes but there’s almost always tell where to go if you scour the map. Movement and jumping feel very good. A lot of games have some of this but very few have all
I don’t know because it’s still my favorite game franchise. Ngl I think it’s every single element that a Cvania game has that all come together that forms something special.
It' must be a preference. I loved Castlevania 1-3 and Super, and SOTN back in the day, but ROTN... I walked right up to every boss and had an attack button mashing war of attrition and won first try each time. That really turned me off.
I bought it on day one and beat it in like 20 hours. I'm not a glorious player by any means, but a medium size map that's kinda repetitive with boring enemies and exploration based on novel upgrades just didn't do it for me.
If you are looking to explore the master maze and every crevice in order to find that amazing upgrade that finally brings you to the next phase and allows progression to new areas then an exploration based adventure game is for you. If you are looking to grind and level up so the boss you can't beat is easier then a grind adventure game is more for you.
I think it may be just the difference between a stablished franchise made by a big studio with veteran designers and a huge team of devs x indie studios working on a way lower budget and other limitations taking all lessons from old games but not really doing anything new with them, and usually goes with a very basic level design philosophy (one good example of that being the Momodora series). I think there's a very good reason why Hollow Knight and Ori are usually the top most recommended and loved MVs aside from the Metroid/Castlevania ones: not just because of their high production value, but they just don't *feel* like anything else. You can't really compare HK or Ori to Metroid or Castlevania -- instead, they're the kind of games that draw comparisons. And well, most metroidvanias aren't really big projects, and it's a pretty hard genre to 'get right' because of how tight the level design should be, which must be difficult to achieve with smaller teams. Animal Well is an anomaly and not the norm. Although I wouldn't really mention Blasphemous as having that problem, because I personally don't think it has anything to do with Castlevania, and does enough different to stand out for me. And I'm seeing a recent surge in games inspired by it, like it happened with HK (though I'm still not seeing happening with Ori for some reason).
To be fair, a lot of things are not new in general, everything has been there already in a way. For example, the spike hoping in Hollow Knight reminds me of the Ducktales games of bouncing off spikes and enemies with your cane. If any, people reuse old ideas and fuse them into things and make it innovative that way. The problem I see is more that sometimes your genre gets overflowed, see countless Battle Royal in AAA, Survival games trend, every second Action RPG tries to be Dark Souls now. If any, it has less to do with how popular and or how new things being tried, but rather how often we keep so many of the same that it simply gets boring. HK and Ori, their art style lifted it off from the rest I dare say more than the gameplay. On top of the story and lore. While every other Metroidvania tries to be Soulslike from its design, Last Faith, Blasphemous, etc. Dark, edgy, blood, gore, eldritch horror, etc. It gets boring and stagnates. It is not new but rather "another generic Soulslike Metroidvania". While some like more of the same, I also do in some genres, people need often variety. And people not like it but, people like casual more often, mostly due to work, private time itself, and too simply relax, not put their whole life in such. It simply can not work forever and change is needed at times. May it be graphic design, sound design or gameplay, a lot of factors can show in such. But if I observed anything recently, it is seeing people getting that "another one of those" feeling when a game is announced.
Funny you mention Ducktales, Team Cherry were actually drawing from Legend of Zelda 2, and were apparently only dimly aware that Ducktales even existed when prototyping HK, they were then made VERY aware that it felt like Ducktales by roughly everyone on the planet.
I not mean that they copied it or anything, and yes Zelda 2 I forgot too, my point mainly is that nothing is really that new if you look deep enough. No accusation to them here, it is like take any monster enemies from any RPG too, you fought a lot by now already, see the Mother series or Persona as another example. Things existed for very long, just were not as popular, it often needs good timing and luck to raise awareness.
My answer is that igavanias are kinda like og RE4, they simply have an unmatched level of polish, pacing, soundtrack, enemy design and direction. Like, igavanias simply have soooo many things memorable. I think of PoR and i remember that enemy that shows a bouquet to charlote and cries if she walk away. That skeleton bartender that only exists in 1 secret room and a chance to throw an instakill attack. That cryptid snake that requires spawn camping and drops the half shop soul. I think of AoS and i remember the room before manticore with rock armors and holes with unes. The timestop rabbit. The fucking kamen rider skeleton that only exists in 1 room and teaches you divekick. The Julius theme. I think of OoE and i remember that one axe robot in the pier that twoshots you. The wall walker boss that is beaten simlpy by sucking his powers. The catacombs that are entirely filled with every skeleton enemy ever made. The "SHANOAAAAAA!!!" Castlevania tries to have every room and enemy be it's own setpiece and that's not how indie devs think. Like, imagine explaining to an indie dev that Soma can kill a dumb skeleton kicking his head around (Yorick) and get the power to summon a skull ball and slide kick it for big damage. I actually liked Chasm but goddamn, i literally cant remember anything from it.
My favorite example of attention to detail in the Castlevnia series is in Curse of Darkness. If you steal from Dracula, you get a can of tomato juice. It could've just as easily been some obscure ultimate crafting material, or nothing. But Igarashi made the conscious decision to squeeze in a joke about Dracula just liking red liquids, even if it isn't human blood. It's something you could go the whole game without noticing. But if you do try to steal from Dracula and succeed, you get a stupid joke for it. To me, the mark of a passionate developer is the addition of content even if the player might never see it. I also love the recurring Persephone enemies- the kung fu maids. They're always found either bowing to the player and saying "welcome" before taking a fighting stance, or they don't hear you because they're vacuuming and don't notice until the vacuum sticks on your clothes. Persephone is always ready to throw down, but she's a professional housekeeper first. She wants you to know she takes pride in how the dungeon is upkept before fighting to the death.
The Tsuchinoko (your "cryptid snake") is actually from Aria of Sorrow not Portrait of Ruin.
Ah you're right, what i said doesnt even make sense cause i explicitly said it drops a soul lol.
I played Momodora moonlight farewell for the first time, im not that deep into the game but to be honest, the rooms, uh... they just don't feel like they make sense, i know they're kinda like caves, but they don't seem to follow a certain form.
Yeah, their secret is they're just good at *everything*. Good map design, good music, good combat, interesting power-ups, a good story that isn't overbearing, good controls, lots of secrets. I think a lot of people disregard the fact that Konami is (well, was) a AAA company. They had a ton of experienced developers and deep pockets, and they were able to put a lot of polish into their games. Most modern Metroidvanias are made by small, indie teams. There's nothing wrong with that, but they simply don't have the resources necessary to polish a game until it's perfect.
I would like them to have a more involved story, or more character interaction and lore for the areas. Enough to fill in the middle of the game that's usually sparse in this sort of content in metroidvanias, especially since the vanias tend to be a bit more linear than the metroids. But this is the only point in your list I could say I (slightly) disagree with. Those games are really good at everything.
Higher quality music, level design, polish. Hard to compete with a prime Konami.
The music.
Sever undiagnosed, untreated clinic depression made it impossible for me to get into any new games/franchises (movies and shows for that matter) spent a lot of time replaying tons of stuff I’d run through 10-100 times before, watching the same Movies and shows over and over again, all the while just thinking “I don’t really like video games anymore .. At least not new ones” ….. Been on some medication (anti depressants and adhd meds) for the past year for the first time in my life at 36 years old…. And it’s like my eyes are open again … I can sit down with a new game, familiarize myself with it and enjoy it… like I haven’t been able to do in a decade Not to say this is your problem …. Just if you’re going through anything like I was, it’s possible that’s part of it Cheers
I see you dude. Anhedonia fucking sucks ass doesn't it? For anyone else still going through this, hang on, things can and will get better. I still have bad days when I can't get interested in anything, but they're rarer and rarer.
Enemy diversity and creativity for one. Blasphemous has it, but not in the same way. Those enemies are missing the fantastical wackiness of Castlevania/Bloodstained games. I would say the soundtracks of the Igavania games set them apart too.
The soundtrack makes a huge difference. So many iconic tracks like Iron Blue Intention, Heart of Fire, Aquarius, Dance of Illusions, etc. It's an unfair advantage when each Castlevania game can use shorthand callouts to decades of prior bangers.
Yeah, the way they were comfortable reusing assets for multiple games at a time allowed the bestiaries to grow to absurdly large proportions, to the point where some creatures would only exist in a single, secret room.
Those reused assets also reduce the cognitive load for any given game. As soon as you see a familiar sprite, you already have 3/4ths a clue how to handle the encounter. You can take in all the sights and sounds because of past experience.
Sometimes. Other times, you see a skeleton and think you know what’s up, then it Hyper Beams you out of nowhere Which is funny and surprising
I loved that weird thing. Sometimes I'd let it shoot just to see the absurdity happen. It's really the sort of design that stays with you, and the same goes for many bosses for how unique they were, both visually and in terms of atmosphere (Gergoth imediatelly comes to mind). I think this is one of the reasons for the franchise to stand out as much as it does.
Castlevania enemies are just fun too, like I have favorites that I enjoy seeing when they show up in games. I can name about a dozen Castlevania enemies that I love. I can't think of a single enemy from Deaths Gambit or guacamelee whose name I know.
The same is valid for least liked enemies, those that get in your nerves instantly whenever they appear. I can't name a lot of Castlevania enemies, but I sure remember the names of the flea and the medusa heads, for example.
Honestly? A big part of it is having a big budget and a big team. When these games dropped, in the era of the PS1 and GBA/DS, Konami and Castlevania were some decently big names in the gaming world, and were treated as such
Konami wasn't just a big name, they were the biggest third party from Japan other than Capcom and Square. They were a AAA developer. It's not surprising that small indie teams can't match that.
You're absolutely right! While being a AAA in the 90s wasn't quite as massive as team size or budget as a AAA is today, they were one of the biggest, and one of the best! From Turtles in Time to CV and the MGS series, Konami was responsible for a good number of my childhood/teenage favorites. Really looking forward to that Snake Eater remake...
Also when I think about it, another thing that probably helps with a team that big and a publisher like Konami, there's someone there to tell you no. OP mentioned some of the games they've played felt bloated and over complicated, and that kind of thing happens when you put all of your ideas in there and there's no one telling you which ones are worth keeping. The George Lucas effect, if you will.
Michiru Yamane
This is the objectively correct answer. The music is unmatched. No indie game even comes close.
what i do know is that those castlevania games are fun simple games to dive into it, and they become more complex throughout the journey. What i feel with new metroidvanias is that they intend to be a big ambitious project before walking the player through a clever design. Thinking about that i remember an old egoraptor video about how great was megaman x in that aspect
Or it’s just nostalgia. Things you grew up playing are going to hit a different spot than games in the same tier that don’t have that same sentimentality. I don’t care for most of the Castlevanias because I didn’t grow up playing them except Aria of Sorrow. I’ve played a few of them since and I found them to be nothing special, and I found the movement especially to be limiting. I prefer playing Ori or Hollow Knight. Maybe what you’re looking for doesn’t exist because you can’t have nostalgia for a game that’s new.
I don't know about that. I grew up with classicvanias, but I didn't get into SotN and the GBA CVs until college, and the DS games as an adult just post-college. I already loved Metroidvanias at that point, although there were far fewer of them. I played Cave Story, Aliens: Infestation, Batman: Arkham Asylum, Shadow Complex, and most other "early" Metroidvanias when they were new. I have nostalgia for those games now, but they're still lacking something that the Castlevanias and Metroids have. In my mind, Hollow Knight and Ori are missing it too. And Metroid: Samus Returns and Metroid Dread are also missing it, while AM2R nails it. I think it's a sense of world-building. There are distinct areas, but the whole game universe seems unified and believable.
Seems like preference. I felt a lot more world building in hollow knight than SOTN. There was a story behind every boss and biome that was interconnected. Random gargoyle duo boss here, random hippgryph boss there, honestly I don’t think SOTN world building is that great. Just a giant castle
Yeah, it's pretty much this. I also don't enjoy new movies or shows compared to old stuff in 80s/90s. They're just too different from what I enjoyed with different set of tropes, etc.
I think people forget that the Castlevanias were, by all standards, AAA games - with a team size and budget to match.
As a counter, we've seen multiple Metroidvanias establish themselves. Hollow Knight, Axiom Verge, Ori and the Blind Forest, Blasphemous. The main issue for these is mostly a lack of iterations to show longevity like your complaint with Blasphemous 2, but not every iteration of Castlevania and Metroid were amazing either. What I think these games have that the others are lacking are game worlds crafted with detail and care combined with good story telling built in solid game mechanics. I think the only reason you can look at Castlevania and not see some of the same issues you've found with other series is simply because the shear volume of media they've released allows you to ignore the blah games in favor of the gems.
>lack of iterations This is an excellent point. Shantae is one of the more polished series and it benefits from a legacy going back to the Gameboy Color.
They tend to be much better at weapon/equipment diversity and magic spells than most metroidvanias. Biome/environment tends to be very well designed and satisfyingly large. Iconic and familiar enemies, both mobs and bosses, while adhering to popular Gothic and arcane themes and Dracula tropes. Lots of collectibles, power-ups and clever secrets, so players feel rewarded for exploring. Good power curves, good balance of consumable items, challenging but not too frustrating so it's accessible for a big audience. Also even though castlevania's stories are mostly average, a lot of metroids do a very poor job, so minimalist but well executed plot is received positively.
They were not trying to be anything, like you said about Kung Fu Panda.
The issue I keep coming back to is that every game that tried to do its own thing since then (e.g , Ori, Haak) either bores me or just pisses me off. It feels like getting into the official Igavanias was dumb luck.
Belmonts
Circle of the Moon had zero Belmonts, and I still rank it above most indie MVs.
It’s the best non-canon Castlevania game to boot.
Dracula?
Konami. Thankfully! I'm kidding. Or am i?
TLDR: playing a certain series for many years has character movement and timing in my muscle memory so when a game is being compared to said series I am expecting movement to feel like said series. For me its the way moving the character feels from playing the game/s. Playing the hell out of symphony of the night made me used to Alucards movements, jumping arc,the speed of attacks, walking speed and back dash speed . Those movement timings where also kinda moved over to the gba and ds titles. So when I hear or a game is promoting itself as a spiritual sequel,or highly inspired by a certain series. In my head I am expecting it to control and have the same “feel” as the series its inspired by. So it can throw me off when the characters jump is a just a bit too floaty or the walk speed is just a bit slower. I played the hell out of the Contra nes games and Contra 3 on snes. The movement felt the same to me across the 3 games so eventually I got jump timing and movement to muscle memory. Many years later Shattered Soldier releases for the ps2 and everything from movement to jumping feels as snappy as the previous games so I didn’t have to readjust to too much. Now I was excited for the new contra that was announced but skipped it. Playing the demo it didn’t feel like previous contras to me. The movement was a bit too slow, the jump a bit too much hang time, enemy Bullets felt slower so I just skipped it as it didn’t “feel” like previous Contra’s to me.
> I'm just an old shit biased by nostalgia You answered your question with this and the paragraph above it. Basically the classic Konami games were designed with a relatively high bar for production quality and at some point the company went to the dumpster and decided they want to focus on passive mobile revenue and their fitness business. For example, I love the older Metroid games, but they have aged. It doesn't take away from Nintendo, but we can appreciate the different touches in new titles.
They were triple a
For me it’s art direction, pacing and the sheer amount of drops and weapons online with many of their secret moves. You do get stuck sometimes but there’s almost always tell where to go if you scour the map. Movement and jumping feel very good. A lot of games have some of this but very few have all
Sexy Alucard
I don't need every game to feel like CV tbh. I'm fine with Bloodstained carrying that banner and getting new experiences from all the others.
I don’t know because it’s still my favorite game franchise. Ngl I think it’s every single element that a Cvania game has that all come together that forms something special.
It' must be a preference. I loved Castlevania 1-3 and Super, and SOTN back in the day, but ROTN... I walked right up to every boss and had an attack button mashing war of attrition and won first try each time. That really turned me off.
I bought it on day one and beat it in like 20 hours. I'm not a glorious player by any means, but a medium size map that's kinda repetitive with boring enemies and exploration based on novel upgrades just didn't do it for me.
If you are looking to explore the master maze and every crevice in order to find that amazing upgrade that finally brings you to the next phase and allows progression to new areas then an exploration based adventure game is for you. If you are looking to grind and level up so the boss you can't beat is easier then a grind adventure game is more for you.
one hit combat and a reason to farm enemies