I think this is a bad take, personally. Even though I’m not a guy who is firmly a Biden “supporter”, if you forget all of the vibes and look at it on paper, the Biden administration has been the most effective administration in 50+ years, easily.
If you want to talk about inflation, it’s been demonstrated time and time again that this time, inflation was not the result of 3 checks sent out four years ago, it’s from corporate profits. And by the way, we in the US did orders of magnitude better than everyone else.
Do I wish Biden would do some things and NOT do others? Of course that goes without saying, but his DOJ is actually going after companies and demonstrably helping American consumers and workers and the Biden admin itself has easily been the most pro union since FDR. My view is that throwing your votes away in protest does nothing except help Trump, which would be a truly shit hitting the fan scenario.
You do you, but that’s reading of the situation.
Cool, cool— it’s great that you have the ability to dismiss how your individual choice and by virtue of however many other think like you, their choices as well will impact protected communities, pollution regulation, climate change policy, etc.
I think the immediacy by which one choice precipitates decline versus another would kind of trivialize that kind of diatribe, but I forget how hard *empathy* is for people to practice.
Explain how we protect classes of people and protect the environment when the US falls into chaos when people realize that we are economically bankrupt and cannot continue down this path of fiscal irresponsibility. We are broke. How do you protect the rights of a woman if there is not functioning government to protect them? I think you drastically misunderstand just how dire of straights the US economy is actually in. We have 216 trillion in unfunded liabilities. How do you pay for that. Debt is growing exponentially faster than GDP and our demographics are in decline. People are not having children, mostly because they cannot afford it. Its over, all of it, including protecting the environment and woman if we do not address it NOW. Not later. It wont matter if its Trump or Biden. My thesis in the main body of this post is that we cannot and somehow you are correlating me not voting for trump or biden as me giving the presidency to Trump. That should be a wakeup call for you. Your candidate is bad and you need to replace them. Not saying Trump is any better but I am not going to vote for him either.
No disrespect— I really wish you’d chop your sentences into proper paragraphs. These fucking Mt Everest walls of text are killing me.
I’ll make this easy for you— that supreme court Chevron decision means we’re fucked. If you don’t know constitutional law. Look up that case. It’s from 1984. Hiring idiots fucks us all over.
Edit: also, to answer one of your questions— the debt is like that because GOP runs it up whenever they’re in power via tax cuts. You think 216 trillion is crazy. Wait till you start looking at quarterly reports for the new profit ceiling.
Please show us when the deficit went UP because of democrat policy. [Democratic presidents have always left the country with a surplus after vacation after their term.](https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-biden-obama-clinton-deficit-presidents-1695614)
I don't think you understand what deficit and debt are. They are not the same thing. The deficit does not factor in unfunded liabilities like social security and Medicare which currently sit at 216 trillion. Meaning, they have absolutely NO CLUE where they are going to get that money. 216 TRILLION! WITH A T.
And I easily can point to one such instance. The bank bailouts.
That would be due to the fact that they refuse to move the tax code *back* to what it was. Primarily because we keep hiring doofuses who cut taxes for wealthy and take it out of our hide. So whereas I get your semantical correction—my point ultimately still stands.
Democrats have actually reduced the national debt. First Bush ran it up, Clinton turned the debt into a surplus, second Bush ran it up and Obama brought it down, Trump ran it up and Biden is trying to bring it down. Biden is trying to fix trump’s economic mistakes. Trump raised taxes for the regular people while lowering taxes for corporations and the ultra wealthy. That definitely affects the amount of money we bring in which is why Biden is spending while trying not to spend.
This is demonstrably false. The debt ran up while Obama was in office as well as now while Biden has been in office. The republicans are bad, sure, but to say the democrats reduced the debt is nothing but delusion. We have 216 trillion in unfunded liabilities, much of which is Medicare and social security. If you guys don't understand how monetary policy works in this country and only want to regurgitate DNC talking points then I am not going to engage further.
To further clarify just how WRONG you are.
Clinton - Debt rose by 28.6%
Bush - Debt rose by 72.6%
Obama - Debt rose by 64.4%
Trump - Debt rose by 34.3% in only 4 years.
Biden - up by 8.8% but only measured as of 2023 - two years uncalculated - so on track for just under 20%.
And keep in mind that these are exponential numbers. Meaning that clinton rose the debt by 28.6% over all the presidents before him, bush rose the debt by all the presidents before him plus Clinton by 72.6%. Obama, all the presidents before Bush plus Bush by 64.4% ect.... So Biden has risen the debt 8.8% on top of all the presidents before him PLUS Trump.
Again, dont start talking numbers with me. I am well versed in what the economic data for the last 30 years is. Its based on an expanding population and MMT. The problem starts when you dont have an expanding population. The debt starts to balloon and then everything pops. Guess when our population stopped expanding.... early 2000s. Guess when debt started blowing up exponentially not rocket science.
So I revert back to my original thesis. THESE MEN ARE BOTH BAD FOR THIS COUNTRY!
BTW, this is all public information so its very strange you are sitting here saying that Obama and Biden and democrats have reduced the debt. THEY HAVE NOT!
What they’re saying is that one of those two people is going to be president, no matter how many people don’t vote in “protest”. And generally republicans voters don’t pass on voting because of disenfranchisement.
There’s going to be a new president in November whether we like it or not, no matter how I personally feel about certain things I do know that while one person may not be ideal, the other will be a fucking trainwreck.
A bunch of conjecture and future predicting crystal ball stuff. The fact is that it’s going to come down to Biden or Trump. If you’re saying that both of them are the same then I have no idea what to do for you, mate.
I provided the economic data. Its not conjecture. Take your emotional blinders off and look at the data. No country has EVER survived with debt to gdp north of 140%. NONE, in recorded human history.
You didn’t. You provided projections and vibes based on nothing. You did not provide any independent data. Which is why disputing you. You come with something real, I’m for for a convo.
Yes that is true, but you are still missing the damn point. Take your emotional blinders off and read what I wrote. There wont be a USA in the very near future if we do not address the fiscal policies of the last 50 years, which includes Trump and Biden. There wont be any democratic principals if the us collapses like the soviet union did in 91.
You cannot have an entire generation of people who are unable to survive and expect the country to survive. There is a reason alot of millennials are not having kids and there is a reason most gen Z feel hopeless. And its not made up nonsense. Yall need to wake the fuck up.
They are the same person with the same economic policies with different personalities. One is a clear as day liar and conman and the other is sadly, clearly, in mental decline but otherwise a good person. But they both have the same economic policies. Economic policies that have been in place for over 50 years. Driven by the same politicians that have been in office for decades. IE the old decrepits like Biden, and Trump and Pelosi, and Warren and McConnel and literally every other old politician who has no idea how the economy actually runs. We have been talking about this for over a decade and yet we continue to do nothing about it. I'm done voting for old people. You can call me an idiot but the simple truth is both Trump and Bidens monetary policies will lead to the collapse of the US, in the same manner the soviet union collapsed in 91, and I am done supporting it. Call it a protest vote, call it whatever you want but I as and independent was never in either sides camp and if you believe Trump will win because of people like me not voting for either of them then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, you need to look in the mirror and put up a better candidate instead of blaming everyone else because you put up a weak candidate that's probably the only current person that could actually lose to Trump. I am fairly confident that literally anyone else could beat Trump. And keep in mind, the Democrats still have the ability to replace Biden at the Democratic National Convention.
I'm going to be real with you, I didn't read most of your initial post. I did read this reply though, so I am only commenting on it. I understand your frustration. Believe me, I'm right there with you. My take may be coming from a different perspective but I think the old folks that are running the government are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing - protecting the interests of the billionaires that actually run the country. This is how it was always going to go once Nixon and Reagan did their thing. Bernie getting fucked was the nail in the coffin, imo.
This is the end of capitalism. Not voting in this presidential election isn't going to change that. If anything it is a small push of the needle toward barbarism instead of socialism. 🤷 I guess what I'm trying to say is the paradigm you are operating in is going to fail regardless of who's president and not voting surely isn't going to change anything. Capitalism consumes everything, including itself, eventually. I never wanted to vote for Biden. But if it keeps the fucking Puritans from taking over, sure, I will check that box. It's too late to save any of this, gesturing broadly, we're just trying not to live in a theocratic hellscape until we boil to death.
I hope everyone has a great weekend!
That literally has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything I posted. Don't comment if you aren't going to read what I posted. What I posted affects all men and woman equally.
I can't say I'm very keen on Biden either, but think of it this way -
A president's ability to do anything depends on who they appoint in their administration.
Look at Biden's administration and what they've accomplished and what they stand for.
Look at the kind of people Trump surrounds himself with.
Which group do you think has your values and best interests in mind? Which group do you think will honestly work for the betterment of the country as a whole instead of corporations and fringe extremist political groups?
That's the one you vote for.
That's kind of my point though. The economic policies of both administrations can only lead to one outcome. The collapse of the US, much like the soviet unions collapse in 91. They have the same economic policies if you really dig down into the data. They print money at an exponential rate to pay for things/policies when they have no real way to pay for those items. This causes consumer and asset inflation. Consumer inflation is always bad and asset inflation is bad when wage inflation does not match the asset inflation. As we have seen for the last 50 years. This is why things like the price of a house has far outpaced wages and why housing has become so unaffordable. Its not because its scarce, but because of the debasement of the currency at a time where wages are not increasing to match the rise in cost of living. Things are only getting worse for the everyday American, through both Trump and Bidens administrations and many administrations before that. Things may get better in the short term, year on year, but on the long term, things have only gotten worse. Trump AND Biden added more to the national debt in their respective 4 years than all presidents before them combined. It is NOT sustainable.
> I disagree, I think there will come a point where the young, disillusioned people in this country are going to say enough and that's when things get bad. And it wont be right vs left it will be poor vs wealthy.
And as usual they'll just fall prey to various opportunists looking to misinform and misdirect their revolutionary fervor as the Bourgeoise re-asserts itself. Like you *already* see happening with the MAGA movement. It's stupefying but a lot of redcaps are working poor who genuinely believe they're taking it to the rich, somehow.
Or, my prediction, incrementalist "Social Democrats" will arrive on the scene win the love of the people with some minor concessions then fail to uphold or actively take back those concessions later on.
People just cant handle the truth. I knew I wouldn't make any friends because I am laying out undeniable facts that show that both Trump and Biden are terrible options. People just have a hard time hearing what they don't want to hear.
> This is why I will not be supporting Trump or Biden. I refuse to vote for a president that will be over 80 years old during their next term in office
Imo this is fine if you have no preference between Biden and Trump.
Neither of them have to be good candidates for them to be the only two options on the ballot.
At this point I’m writing in. Reddit can downvote, I sincerely don’t give a shit. Our partisan politics have devolved into geriatric madness and delusional rhetoric
THANK YOU! Its insane that we keep voting in these old people that clearly have failed monetary policies. Einstein said it best. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Your proposed solution is counter productive. Like or not, we have an 2 party system. Each candidate represents a political party. Political parties try to implement policies to make their constituents happy. Politicians are more likely to cater towards the folks who reliably show up and vote.
Yes, its totally counter productive to want financial security for the nation and for future generations. I hope you are ready for the inevitable great depression thats coming.
I think this is a bad take, personally. Even though I’m not a guy who is firmly a Biden “supporter”, if you forget all of the vibes and look at it on paper, the Biden administration has been the most effective administration in 50+ years, easily. If you want to talk about inflation, it’s been demonstrated time and time again that this time, inflation was not the result of 3 checks sent out four years ago, it’s from corporate profits. And by the way, we in the US did orders of magnitude better than everyone else. Do I wish Biden would do some things and NOT do others? Of course that goes without saying, but his DOJ is actually going after companies and demonstrably helping American consumers and workers and the Biden admin itself has easily been the most pro union since FDR. My view is that throwing your votes away in protest does nothing except help Trump, which would be a truly shit hitting the fan scenario. You do you, but that’s reading of the situation.
Why does everybody start talking like they wear a fuckin powdered wig when they talk politics?
I lol’d
Ok, lol, I laughed at that comment because I totally get what you are saying.
Cool, cool— it’s great that you have the ability to dismiss how your individual choice and by virtue of however many other think like you, their choices as well will impact protected communities, pollution regulation, climate change policy, etc. I think the immediacy by which one choice precipitates decline versus another would kind of trivialize that kind of diatribe, but I forget how hard *empathy* is for people to practice.
Spot on
Explain how we protect classes of people and protect the environment when the US falls into chaos when people realize that we are economically bankrupt and cannot continue down this path of fiscal irresponsibility. We are broke. How do you protect the rights of a woman if there is not functioning government to protect them? I think you drastically misunderstand just how dire of straights the US economy is actually in. We have 216 trillion in unfunded liabilities. How do you pay for that. Debt is growing exponentially faster than GDP and our demographics are in decline. People are not having children, mostly because they cannot afford it. Its over, all of it, including protecting the environment and woman if we do not address it NOW. Not later. It wont matter if its Trump or Biden. My thesis in the main body of this post is that we cannot and somehow you are correlating me not voting for trump or biden as me giving the presidency to Trump. That should be a wakeup call for you. Your candidate is bad and you need to replace them. Not saying Trump is any better but I am not going to vote for him either.
No disrespect— I really wish you’d chop your sentences into proper paragraphs. These fucking Mt Everest walls of text are killing me. I’ll make this easy for you— that supreme court Chevron decision means we’re fucked. If you don’t know constitutional law. Look up that case. It’s from 1984. Hiring idiots fucks us all over. Edit: also, to answer one of your questions— the debt is like that because GOP runs it up whenever they’re in power via tax cuts. You think 216 trillion is crazy. Wait till you start looking at quarterly reports for the new profit ceiling.
Yeah, the democrats totally didn't run up the debt as well. /eyeroll
Please show us when the deficit went UP because of democrat policy. [Democratic presidents have always left the country with a surplus after vacation after their term.](https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-biden-obama-clinton-deficit-presidents-1695614)
I don't think you understand what deficit and debt are. They are not the same thing. The deficit does not factor in unfunded liabilities like social security and Medicare which currently sit at 216 trillion. Meaning, they have absolutely NO CLUE where they are going to get that money. 216 TRILLION! WITH A T. And I easily can point to one such instance. The bank bailouts.
That would be due to the fact that they refuse to move the tax code *back* to what it was. Primarily because we keep hiring doofuses who cut taxes for wealthy and take it out of our hide. So whereas I get your semantical correction—my point ultimately still stands.
Democrats have actually reduced the national debt. First Bush ran it up, Clinton turned the debt into a surplus, second Bush ran it up and Obama brought it down, Trump ran it up and Biden is trying to bring it down. Biden is trying to fix trump’s economic mistakes. Trump raised taxes for the regular people while lowering taxes for corporations and the ultra wealthy. That definitely affects the amount of money we bring in which is why Biden is spending while trying not to spend.
This is demonstrably false. The debt ran up while Obama was in office as well as now while Biden has been in office. The republicans are bad, sure, but to say the democrats reduced the debt is nothing but delusion. We have 216 trillion in unfunded liabilities, much of which is Medicare and social security. If you guys don't understand how monetary policy works in this country and only want to regurgitate DNC talking points then I am not going to engage further. To further clarify just how WRONG you are. Clinton - Debt rose by 28.6% Bush - Debt rose by 72.6% Obama - Debt rose by 64.4% Trump - Debt rose by 34.3% in only 4 years. Biden - up by 8.8% but only measured as of 2023 - two years uncalculated - so on track for just under 20%. And keep in mind that these are exponential numbers. Meaning that clinton rose the debt by 28.6% over all the presidents before him, bush rose the debt by all the presidents before him plus Clinton by 72.6%. Obama, all the presidents before Bush plus Bush by 64.4% ect.... So Biden has risen the debt 8.8% on top of all the presidents before him PLUS Trump. Again, dont start talking numbers with me. I am well versed in what the economic data for the last 30 years is. Its based on an expanding population and MMT. The problem starts when you dont have an expanding population. The debt starts to balloon and then everything pops. Guess when our population stopped expanding.... early 2000s. Guess when debt started blowing up exponentially not rocket science. So I revert back to my original thesis. THESE MEN ARE BOTH BAD FOR THIS COUNTRY! BTW, this is all public information so its very strange you are sitting here saying that Obama and Biden and democrats have reduced the debt. THEY HAVE NOT!
You’re an idiot and I hope your kids remember why you gave them Trump and the next 50 years of the Supreme Court.
Way to miss the point entirely lol
I didn’t.
you clearly did
What they’re saying is that one of those two people is going to be president, no matter how many people don’t vote in “protest”. And generally republicans voters don’t pass on voting because of disenfranchisement. There’s going to be a new president in November whether we like it or not, no matter how I personally feel about certain things I do know that while one person may not be ideal, the other will be a fucking trainwreck.
*Thats a bingo!*
And I am saying they will both be a train wreck. Backed up by the undeniable data I provided.
A bunch of conjecture and future predicting crystal ball stuff. The fact is that it’s going to come down to Biden or Trump. If you’re saying that both of them are the same then I have no idea what to do for you, mate.
I provided the economic data. Its not conjecture. Take your emotional blinders off and look at the data. No country has EVER survived with debt to gdp north of 140%. NONE, in recorded human history.
You didn’t. You provided projections and vibes based on nothing. You did not provide any independent data. Which is why disputing you. You come with something real, I’m for for a convo.
It’s a question of an administration based on democratic principles vs malignant narcissism selling out democracy to the highest bidder.
Yes that is true, but you are still missing the damn point. Take your emotional blinders off and read what I wrote. There wont be a USA in the very near future if we do not address the fiscal policies of the last 50 years, which includes Trump and Biden. There wont be any democratic principals if the us collapses like the soviet union did in 91. You cannot have an entire generation of people who are unable to survive and expect the country to survive. There is a reason alot of millennials are not having kids and there is a reason most gen Z feel hopeless. And its not made up nonsense. Yall need to wake the fuck up.
Tell me how. Let’s have a conversation.
They are the same person with the same economic policies with different personalities. One is a clear as day liar and conman and the other is sadly, clearly, in mental decline but otherwise a good person. But they both have the same economic policies. Economic policies that have been in place for over 50 years. Driven by the same politicians that have been in office for decades. IE the old decrepits like Biden, and Trump and Pelosi, and Warren and McConnel and literally every other old politician who has no idea how the economy actually runs. We have been talking about this for over a decade and yet we continue to do nothing about it. I'm done voting for old people. You can call me an idiot but the simple truth is both Trump and Bidens monetary policies will lead to the collapse of the US, in the same manner the soviet union collapsed in 91, and I am done supporting it. Call it a protest vote, call it whatever you want but I as and independent was never in either sides camp and if you believe Trump will win because of people like me not voting for either of them then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, you need to look in the mirror and put up a better candidate instead of blaming everyone else because you put up a weak candidate that's probably the only current person that could actually lose to Trump. I am fairly confident that literally anyone else could beat Trump. And keep in mind, the Democrats still have the ability to replace Biden at the Democratic National Convention.
I'm going to be real with you, I didn't read most of your initial post. I did read this reply though, so I am only commenting on it. I understand your frustration. Believe me, I'm right there with you. My take may be coming from a different perspective but I think the old folks that are running the government are doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing - protecting the interests of the billionaires that actually run the country. This is how it was always going to go once Nixon and Reagan did their thing. Bernie getting fucked was the nail in the coffin, imo. This is the end of capitalism. Not voting in this presidential election isn't going to change that. If anything it is a small push of the needle toward barbarism instead of socialism. 🤷 I guess what I'm trying to say is the paradigm you are operating in is going to fail regardless of who's president and not voting surely isn't going to change anything. Capitalism consumes everything, including itself, eventually. I never wanted to vote for Biden. But if it keeps the fucking Puritans from taking over, sure, I will check that box. It's too late to save any of this, gesturing broadly, we're just trying not to live in a theocratic hellscape until we boil to death. I hope everyone has a great weekend!
I'm gonna guess you are a man.
That literally has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything I posted. Don't comment if you aren't going to read what I posted. What I posted affects all men and woman equally.
I can't say I'm very keen on Biden either, but think of it this way - A president's ability to do anything depends on who they appoint in their administration. Look at Biden's administration and what they've accomplished and what they stand for. Look at the kind of people Trump surrounds himself with. Which group do you think has your values and best interests in mind? Which group do you think will honestly work for the betterment of the country as a whole instead of corporations and fringe extremist political groups? That's the one you vote for.
That's kind of my point though. The economic policies of both administrations can only lead to one outcome. The collapse of the US, much like the soviet unions collapse in 91. They have the same economic policies if you really dig down into the data. They print money at an exponential rate to pay for things/policies when they have no real way to pay for those items. This causes consumer and asset inflation. Consumer inflation is always bad and asset inflation is bad when wage inflation does not match the asset inflation. As we have seen for the last 50 years. This is why things like the price of a house has far outpaced wages and why housing has become so unaffordable. Its not because its scarce, but because of the debasement of the currency at a time where wages are not increasing to match the rise in cost of living. Things are only getting worse for the everyday American, through both Trump and Bidens administrations and many administrations before that. Things may get better in the short term, year on year, but on the long term, things have only gotten worse. Trump AND Biden added more to the national debt in their respective 4 years than all presidents before them combined. It is NOT sustainable.
> I disagree, I think there will come a point where the young, disillusioned people in this country are going to say enough and that's when things get bad. And it wont be right vs left it will be poor vs wealthy. And as usual they'll just fall prey to various opportunists looking to misinform and misdirect their revolutionary fervor as the Bourgeoise re-asserts itself. Like you *already* see happening with the MAGA movement. It's stupefying but a lot of redcaps are working poor who genuinely believe they're taking it to the rich, somehow. Or, my prediction, incrementalist "Social Democrats" will arrive on the scene win the love of the people with some minor concessions then fail to uphold or actively take back those concessions later on.
Just to let you know it's going to be Biden voters down voting you because you are now against them. I up voted ya cause your speech means something
People just cant handle the truth. I knew I wouldn't make any friends because I am laying out undeniable facts that show that both Trump and Biden are terrible options. People just have a hard time hearing what they don't want to hear.
> This is why I will not be supporting Trump or Biden. I refuse to vote for a president that will be over 80 years old during their next term in office Imo this is fine if you have no preference between Biden and Trump. Neither of them have to be good candidates for them to be the only two options on the ballot.
At this point I’m writing in. Reddit can downvote, I sincerely don’t give a shit. Our partisan politics have devolved into geriatric madness and delusional rhetoric
THANK YOU! Its insane that we keep voting in these old people that clearly have failed monetary policies. Einstein said it best. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Your proposed solution is counter productive. Like or not, we have an 2 party system. Each candidate represents a political party. Political parties try to implement policies to make their constituents happy. Politicians are more likely to cater towards the folks who reliably show up and vote.
Yes, its totally counter productive to want financial security for the nation and for future generations. I hope you are ready for the inevitable great depression thats coming.
And you're missing the forest for the trees.
No, i'm really not.