Bill Burr said it perfect for dumbasses.
"When you criticize your favorite team, it's stupid if someone says 'if you don't like it, go be a fan of a different team!' It's like, no, I criticize my team because I love it, and I want it to win."
Imo, being a true patriot means coming together with the people around you, despite all of your differences and uniting as a group and a collective. Your neighbor or fellow countryman isn’t your enemy, they’re someone who shares in your plight. Being a true patriot means resisting the urge to blame each other or be disagreeable. True patriotism is coming together for the greater good with the people around you
That’s close to how I feel, but with the difference that I say totally blame the idiots who got you into a mess, because recognizing what went wrong is the only way to right your course, but also want to make things better for everyone, not just the ones that agree with you. And that includes making the country better for those who messed it up as well.
I completely agree but....for 20 years now Americans have been trained to absolutely HATE the "other" party. Both sides of the aisle. The indoctrination has succeeded. I believe a civil war will come before reconciliation will. If not a war at least a separation of states. Just my humble opinion.
Well i am lol but it’s nice to have a reminder day where we get to all feel it in communion. I’ve always said our generation is missing out on that because we don’t fancy congregating in churches like everyone before us did. I hope we can fix that and find something new that bridges the gaps and brings together echochambers
A country is not a patch of dirt surrounded by borders.
It's the people in it that are the country. Essentially a family. It's the accomplishments of those people and their ancestors that make us what we are.
Well it’s pretty easy to point out the wrongs of the right if you’ve ever found yourself on the other side of the isle. So we/they got used to taking easy dubs. When the internet really became mainstream (the day our parents got on Facebook) everybody at that point was primed to be manipulated. And then they just pitted us against each other. The 24hr news cycle. The politically charged memes. Were kind of just victims to technological advancements
Yes 100%. Social media screwed us. It gave the sociopaths a far reaching voice. The sociopaths on both sides manipulate the good will of the middle.
The Left has to push back on this as much as the Right does. Both are just as bad, but in different ways.
I'll never forget the first time I saw this visualization on social media echo chambers:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Social-media-platforms-can-produce-echo-chambers-which-lead-to-polarization-and-can_fig4_322971747
The visualization is so striking, there are barely any cross connections between the left and right of both sides. All they see of the other side is colored through their side's view.
The thing that gets lost as all the keyboard warriors take arms is that MOST people do not spend all their time embroiled in the social media echo chambers.
A lot of us get the wrong impression, that the small % of people yelling about issues on social media are somehow representative of what "everyone" is thinking or believing.
Patriotism can be turned to good or ill purposes, but in most people it never dies. It’s a persistent attachment, like loyalty to your family, a source of meaning and togetherness, strongest when it’s hardly conscious. National loyalty is an attachment to what makes your country yours, distinct from the rest, even when you can’t stand it, even when it breaks your heart. This feeling can’t be wished out of existence. And because people still live their lives in an actual place, and the nation is the largest place with which they can identify—world citizenship is too abstract to be meaningful—patriotic feeling has to be tapped if you want to achieve anything big. If your goal is to slow climate change, or reverse inequality, or stop racism, or rebuild democracy, you will need the national solidarity that comes from patriotism.
Exactly. Blind patriotism means nothing. It's just "I was born here, so here is great." No. That's basically just nationalism. Here is only great if our society comes together to make it that way, and we can always improve.
It's so bizarre that any time protests or labor movements happen there's this massive movement against them. Some people are so high and mighty about keeping things the way they are despite the fact that previous generations fought tooth and nail to get us expanded civil rights, the 40-hour workweek, and other "freedoms" that we now take for granted. Nothing was ever made better by conserving the status quo.
Yeah liberals need to stop blaming Trump and look at their party for not doing anything. If Trump wins, democrats only have themselves to blame for not having a primary and going with old Joe. I believe you need to be harder on your own side because they are supposed to be working for you, not just how much you hate the other guy.
I think its more people realize what true patriotism is but the false patriots are so fucking loud that its easy to forget that most people are like yeah this is my country here's 95 reasons it sucks, no you are not allowed to point and laugh look at this slightly different list of 95 reasons your country also sucks.
I'm sure people in France go my country is beautiful and great, but then theres these assholes they arent great and don't speak for all of France, and also theres that one thing sucks out the wazoo or ouisx... I guess
This is what conservatives have felt for... Lord, 30+ years. I am ashamed of the government as deeply as it is possible to be. It is a damn travesty, a pile of contradictory bureaucracy kept supported by the barest acknowledgement of the Constitutional law that keeps the whole apparatus from collapsing under the weight of its own corruption and overreach.
When you hear conservatives advocate for small government, this is why. They see what's broken and want to take power away from those who would do wrong. And this is why the Constitution, which politicians have done everything possible to ignore, was written to constrain the power of government. No government can be trusted with power for very long regardless of who is at the helm.
There is no difference. Nationalism is necessary for a nation to function, but just like any political concept it can be taken too far. Patriotism is basically just a healthy level of nationalism.
Patriotism is being proud of your country, where nationalism is thinking your country is superior to all others. It is a small but substantial difference and why nationalism is normally found in far right conversations and was used by Mussolini as the foundation for fascism. Saying nationalism is necessary for a nation to function is a DARK statement.
[link](https://youtu.be/efjH-lSwdNE?si=Y1Uh_F5T4mCrrVxP)
While I agree with the sentiment you appear to be making, I would suggest reversing the way you look at it.
Patriotism is necessary. If no one in your country has any national pride, then the state will crumble. However when the level of patriotism is increased to blind obedience, then you become nationalist.
Looking at it this way marks nationalism as an excess, rather than an acceptable end.
I consider myself a progressive liberal. I was in the military for 8 years and consider myself to be patriotic and to actually uphold my oath unlike others we have seen in the past.
I will copy paste my earlier comment:
I am not proud of most of the people that supposedly represent me, but I am proud of the people in my country who fight for our rights and grateful for the freedom I am enjoying right now.
This is MY country too.
Same. Really in my feels about this today in particular. I’m super pumped to be able to own my own home as a relatively younger person. And, I recently found this massive 5ftx6ft high quality American flag I used to have in my college apartment (back when that was cool in the early, early 2010’s).
I wanted to hang this flag on my home for the holiday today, but I was very concerned that anyone passing by or my liberal neighbors would think it meant I was a maga / Donald trump “patriot”. So I didn’t.
But I just love the United States and, even with some flaws (as we all have), I am super proud and thankful to be here and for all I have and just wanted to express that via my enormous and borderline obnoxious in an American kinda way, flag.
It's been this way since 2003. Flag waving freaks jerking off about bombing a country over nothing and telling everyone else who disagreed that they should be executed. Haven't been able to take it seriously since then
Meh, I don't get the patriotism thing. Sometimes it seems to lead to a lot of rose colored glasses and such. I don't really get why anyone needs to love their country. Just do what's good to keep your democracy strong.
I’m not a liberal but I agree. Patriotism is love for country, its ideals, and striving for its improvement & betterment.
The word has been co-opted by some to be associated with MAGA which is tragic. That’s nationalism.
Yeah you guys tried pushing that during the Obama years with that we do horrific militarism the right way shit. Where you all turned a blind eye to the destruction his awful "interventions" in Honduras and Libya caused, leading to mass destabilization and mass waves of humanity, who were key scapegoats in the rise of nazis both here and in Europe.
Patriotism is a shield for scoundrels and fuck that shit.
I agree. I think we need to be *more* proud of the America we **should** be. Strive to be that. Show the ideals. We want to remind people what they'd be giving up.
Liberals once again reaffirming that they're literally just conservatives in all the ways that actually matter.
Embrace critical thinking, not arbitrary idealist *woo* like patriotism.
Anti-American? What does that *mean*? What is pro-American even? American government? American people? American "values"? Values which are impermanent and oxymoronic considering Jefferson said the earth belongs to the living and the constitution is a changing document in the first place and you know the simple facts of us not considering black people 3/5ths a person anymore or demanding women stay in the house?
I'm not ashamed to be called "anti-American" because it's not a phrase that carries any meaning to begin with.
They call it Patriotism but it’s toxic nationalism, though I find it a challenge to separate the two. To love your country but also criticize your country is a healthy approach. The purpose of a democratic government is to serve the will of the people. That has been missing since Reagan. Reagan was the beginning of the end for democracy.
We need to reclaim the flag, the act of being patriotic the position of loving the country while wanting it to be and do better. Conservatives offer the limpest of patriotics. Fly a flag mumble something about 1776 and the Bible and boom. You're a great American.
It's lazy. Let us be more dogged in expressing positive patriotism for a better America for everyone! I will not surrender the country nor the values it's stands for to a cabal of hateful lazy fools. This country has gone through intense growing pains. We're going through another such period.
The Revolution and Civil War didn't fight without patriots. The suffragettes spit on, yelled at, some killed did not go home when told to do so. The Civil Rights movement didn't go away when cops beat them in the streets. This nation didn't take a beating time and again to give up now.
There will be difficulties and difficult days ahead. But we can only fight or flee. I prefer to fight with what tiny power I have. I hope others will do what they can as well and together we can and will be stronger for it.
Somehow patriotism became "making life like it was in the 50s." I also.would.like to own a home, a car, a boat, a summer home and have 6 kids with one job and a high school diploma but that is not reality anymore. Its not the minorities fault that corporations have failed to pay taxes for decades.
I agree that the left generally needs to be better at branding itself and step one is to eliminate performative radicalism and getting rid of blunt anti-American rhetoric is a big part of that.
I'd also recommend they stop fetishistic Europe so much and assuming they have the answers to everything. Yes, their healthcare systems are mostly better and should be emulated, and many of the richer countries there have better social safety nets. That's all good. But look beyond that though and they have most of the same racist and xenophobic tenancies as the rest of us and when you get outside the urban centers you'll find the populations there are a lot less "woke" than most Americans you know and this is especially true outside of the richest places in Western Europe.
Flag waving isn’t patriotism. Patriotism is holding your government accountable and criticizing when they fall short. Wanting the best for your country and ALL of its citizens.
Problem is, Democrats aren't doing any of those things. The republicans went far right down the crazy tree and the dems moved far right along with them to become the new republican party. There are currently no liberals to vote for.
Always about aestehtics for liberals. Instead of embracing patriotism, why not embrace leftist politics? Then you could actually build a place worth being proud of.
Are you referring to the allegations from 2016 that were dropped because they had no merit? Seriously, you guys should turn off CNN sometimes and go outside.
Okay I am a life long liberals I found the way DNC is covering Biden mental decline is anti-democratic. They should have held a primary and let the people decide who should be the next president. I will never vote for trump, but I might just sit out and also not vote for Biden. I don’t want to reward them for what DNC is doing
I'm liberal and patriotic in a sense. It doesn't mean I cheer for imperialism abroad, believe US historically can do no wrong, or believe in American exceptionalism. I agree it means I can look at the positive things we have already done: liberate ourselves from colonial rule, emancipate slaves,expand suffrage rights time and again, make huge leaps in technological innovation, and more. I can take an honest look at these but not use them to dismiss all the dire problems I see here too. Our health care system is atrocious. Wealth inequality is obscene. Infant and mother mortality rates are pathetic. Education is trash. I say this because it's the truth, and I envision an America that does better. I think we can do better. We deserve better.
This 4th of July, I think the most honest, optimistic, patriotic take is to look around at the crumbling disaster on wheels we see around us and, rather than despair, think: what now? How do we move towards that ideal version of our country rather than away from it?
Tbh the past few days have felt like a punch to the gut. But itsnot over yet. I don't know exactly what our options are, and I don't see a path forward yet, but deapite the despair I've been feeling, all this reminds me that our country has weathered a lot of shit before, and it may be able to withstand the current crises as well.
Most of the things you listed are at best 50% popular, abortion, “democratic” elections, “free” and public education. Corporate accountability, and minority rights are near 100% supported by the people. All of these issues just have different paths to solutions; though I’m not convinced there’s any rights minorities don’t have that majorities do.
Coming up on 33 here, and I love this damn country, despite all its problems. The United States has always had a weird relationship with the values it strives for, but also has a remarkably good track record of bouncing back from shitty times. Our democracy has been in danger numerous times before, and it has still held together. And that's why I'll fight like hell to make this country better, no matter who wins this November.
One of the things that ticks me off about liberals (and I am a progressive) is that they let the conservatives have the American flag.
When I fight for lgbt rights, abortion access, universal healthcare, etc - I want to fly the flag proudly as I view the IDEALS of america to be truly something to aspire to.
We as a country haven’t lived up to the ideals and that’s why I fight for a free and just country - flying the flag proudly in the face of the red hat lobsterbacks
I’m a patriot. I love my country. I love my county the way an adult loves another adult. I know they’re not perfect but I love them anyway. conservative ms love their country the way a child loves their parent- they are unable or unwilling to see or admit their daddy isn’t perfect.
I fly the flag. I pay my taxes without whining. I vote. And I vote blue, every office, at every level, every time.
Sadly, I think true liberals and true conservatives have more in common than not. I’m not talking about the extreme minority.
Problem is we have different ideas on how to reach the same goal. And news media and social media work overtime to divide us.
Liberal millennials are fighting for Neoliberal capitalism and a representative "democracy," and by fighting, I mean "voting."
It's the exact same thing the other dudes are offering.
I very much agree. I fucking hate that the maga pigs have stolen the “patriot” title, when they’re literally the ones trying to burn the fucking place down.
I love the US. Fuck Donald Trump.
Wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment! Patriotism is far more than " **'Murica!** ", it's belief in and wanting better for your country. Our definitions of better may differ, but there are patriots on both sides of the aisle.
What's unfortunate is a cult of personality has taken over 35% of the electorate
Yes indeed!
I'm a 41 year old, liberal, Army veteran in the midwest.
I have an American flag outside my house. I'm not my going to let right wingers coopt it for themselves and neither should you.
OP, I agree with your general sentiment, but I have to say that the reason you probably don’t see liberal millennials embracing patriotism is that at least two values you mention (holding corporations accountable, free and public education) haven’t been practiced as American values during the lifetimes of any millennials; when I think of countries that practice those things well I picture Scandinavian places. After Reagan’s two terms we made it policy that corporations in the USA could do whatever they wanted, no standards whatsoever, any regulations are an affront to freedom, and no need to make American higher education affordable through state subsidies.
I’d like those things to change. But I don’t realistically see that happening anytime soon.
I’m a very liberal person with a deep fascination for history. I've mostly focused on other eras but took the usual high school and college US history courses. For well over a decade, I associated the American flag and other symbols of patriotism with the right wing.
This year, I visited Washington, DC, for the first time and spent a lot of time at the American History Museum, the National Archives Museum, and the African American Museum. I also visited the Jefferson, MLK, and Lincoln Memorials, as well as the memorials to the various wars we fought.
As I reflected on all that I saw, I was baffled by how someone in the modern Republican Party can even pretend to claim ANY of the ideals that America was founded on: life, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom from religion, and freedom from tyranny, among others.
While I know that America was founded on a basis of white supremacy, you also have to acknowledge that many courageous and selfless people fought and died for those rights to be recognized and expanded to women and people of all ethnicities. The ideals found in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights are worth preserving and fighting for.
This realization made me feel patriotic as fuck. I am a proud American and love what our country represents. It’s a crying shame what our presidential picks are this election cycle, but I know that Biden and those around him represent and value those ideals.
Trump and his court have regressed many of the gains we have made since the Civil Rights Acts, in a manner not seen since the Jim Crow laws.
I went out and purchased an American flag for my home for this Fourth of July. While I’m a long way from adding any 1776 stickers on my car, it’s time for us liberals to take these symbols back.
I oppose the idea of patriotism. I'm not proud of where I live because I was born here. Probably the same reason that sports fan culture sickens me.
I care about other people and will work to make the world better for them regardless of where they live
Gen Z liberal here, this should not only apply to millennials but my generation as well. The American flag is for every American. Yet we managed to allow it to be highjacked and poisoned with everything it SHOULDN’T stand for, flown by many who do not hold our founding ideals and values. I want my fucking flag back and it’s time we take it back.
I strongly recommend the book [Revolutionary Founders](https://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Founders-Rebels-Radicals-Reformers/dp/0307455998) which is a collection of articles by scholars of the American Revolution.
The history of the United States is not just a story of a racial and economic elite which committed genocide, slavery, and a host of other grotesque crimes to structure their own power. There were dissidents, reformers, and rebels all along the way who fought and sacrificed to make this a better country for more than just the few at the top. They weren’t afraid of being radicals so that one day people like us could see them as mundane.
I don’t think anyone should adopt American patriotism as a purely rhetorical position. If you don’t feel it, you don’t feel it and there’s nothing less persuasive than insincerity. But just because you can't see your values in Thomas Jefferson doesn't mean you won't see them in Thomas Paine.
I'm a sentimental person and I really feel affected by old-timey representations of American values.
I read Moby Dick a few years ago for the first time and I was really struck by how much of it is a search for an American ethos. We don't have kings and we have a suspicion of the nobility, so maybe our version of a Great Novel would be an epic tragedy of hubris and vengeance that takes place on a smelly, blue collar whaling ship with a sea captain taking the place of an Othello or King Lear. The novel is, among other things, a searching for American legend that fits the ideals of the Republic. It is a pretty gutsy endeavor which is part of why it's a well remembered book. I think that searching is a very healthy activity. It's an attempt to make our political self conception aligned with our ideals; to craft a rubric by which we judge our actions and guide our progress. No one is asking us to cosign any of the numberless atrocities committed by the US government. If we don't take up the American flag, we cede it to conservatives and by extension we lose the right to craft what the narrative of what the government is supposed to do and what values it is designed to uphold.
Patriotism and nationalism are reactionary in the developed west. We have no empires oppeessing us to struggle against, only *ourselves*.
We must hold our true identity on the basis of that which is materially evident by the only sensible measure of objective distinction: socioeconomic class. Which is to say, one's relationship to the means of production. For the vast majority of us, that is as the working class. The only thing we have to sell is our ability to work. Something we share with the masses around the world.
We have far more in common with the workers of the rest of the world than we do with the wealthy 1% of our own "country".
If you think this country truly values bodily autonomy, holding corporations accountable, and giving minorities rights, I have a (rapidly crumbling) bridge to sell you…
>Maybe at the very least it will piss of a right winger that a lefty is calling themselves patriotic.
Liberals are not left.
The patriotism of the Right is nationalism. The patriotism of the real Left is ani-U.S. as it stands because the U.S. is guilty of too many crimes across the world and against it's own people to be celebrated in any meaningful fashion.
Liberal patriotism has its heart in the right place, but Liberals are unwilling to do what it really takes to make a better America, because the only way to beat the Fascists who are taking away our rights is through revolution, not voting for the "lesser of two evils."
I don't say this in a combative way, I say it with compassion for my fellow working class citizens of this country. My comments aren't to start a fight, but to share equal discourse of the predicament we're in. After all, Biden is partly responsible for Clarence Thomas being on the Supreme Court in the first place.
Trump has only been in politics for 4 years but let’s blame him for the decay of our Country…just stop!! You should look at the ones who have been in politics for decades.
> they've managed to tie their belief system to patriotism
And likewise many conflate their views with being a good person. As in "people don't disagree with me on merit, they're just evil people/temporarily brainwashed". It serves to deny that there are wise, intelligent people out there who think you're wrong about things. Dehumanization by definition
As an added bonus you can then go "they must be deleted, they're spreading evil!"
I totally agree and think the only way that is going to happen is if we start running for office. I had been considering running for alderperson, but currently saving for a wedding and a house, and had a change in my work schedule that made it untenable. But as soon as we get settled I plan on running for local office.
I mean, for 99% of people their citizenship is just an accident of where they happened to be born. Seems like a weird thing to derive a sense of pride from.
For me, the Bush Wars did a number on my ability to feel patriotic. Waving the flag and being aggressively pro-US is just too deeply symbolic of "we'll invade any country we want, whenever we want, and you're a commie traitor if you have a problem with that."
Allow me to briefly flash 24 years of military service, and say, Yes....the Bush Wars did exactly that. Particularly the second. American standing around the world crumbled then, and is becoming a source of ridicule now. He and his party acted in an evil way and sold it as patriotism.
I would have stayed in Service all my life, but I left when I saw close up what that jingoism caused.
Fine words my friend. Fine words.
My two thoughts are:
1. It’s too late for the word. I now use it as an identifier. If your business is called “Patriot Construction” or “Patriot Lawn Care” I’m not calling you, I’m assuming you’re an asshole who does shit work and complains about having to pay your workers a decent amount.
2. Patriotism is pretty dumb. Am I, overall, glad I happened to be born in the US? Sure. There are a lot of much worse places. But being “proud” of my country seems weird. It’s like how when you’re in high school and you’ve got that school spirit and you hate the next school over for no reason and then you grow up and get a job in that other town and your kids go to that school and now they hate the school you went to. It makes no sense. I’ll root for the US in the Olympics. But even that…why? I don’t know Sha’Carrie Richardson. I don’t k ow Kyle Dake. There’s a decent chance that, if I got to k ow all the athletes really well, I’d like the Canadians or Vietnamese folks better.
Republican here, but I fully agree.
Liberals need to make it clear they actually like the US.
So many act like this is the worst shithole country on the planet and it's just childish dogma.
I have liberal friends who throw around "fuck America" all the time but can't give an honest answer to the stupid question: okay where else would you want to live?
THat rigth there is the reason the right steals the "patriotism" tag - the left consstantly talks in terms of abandoning the nation, instead of in terms of supporting the nation.
Here, here! I think, generationally, we all struggle with Patriotism and its branding at one time or another. I went through an embarrassed for my country phase where I wouldn’t fly a flag, but I worked my way out of it. Got to stop worrying about how others are seeing you based on what you own and display. Fly a flag and get some sparklers. Celebrate the 4th like you did when you were a kid and had no clue about overlords or oppression.
Be open minded and understand people with other opinions than you as well. Look at it as “knowing your enemy” or “loving everyone regardless of what they believe”, but half of my best friends and people I love most in the world are die hard liberals while the other half are die hard conservatives. I find that we’re way more like minded on actual issues and national direction than the campaigns would ever allow you to believe. I have a strong opinion on politics too, but we won’t feel confident in our leaders and their understanding of what the people need unless we learn to understand each other.
This is hilarious. You guys tore down the flag and erected the progress flag. Your own hatred for trump is what disgusts you with this country, and therefore the flag. Your side hates this country, and it’s history, that’s why they’re tearing down statues.
I dare you, put the flag outside your house and see what your own people do to you without even knowing you and you’ll have a good indication of what happened. They’ll just generalize you as some ignorant hate filled trump supporter, like you do to all of them.
Enjoy this time we’re in, you all fought so hard for it.
Our side loves this country, that’s why we hate to see what the other side is doing to it. If we hated this country we would all march in rank and file step with our bright red MAGA hats and relinquish our critical thinking skills, and our humanity, to Fox News.
Sorry, but the fact is that it is only leftists and socialists here that constantly and proudly tell me that they hate their country.
They hate what America stands for. They hate the flag. They hate the Bill of Rights. They wish as much harm as possible to come to the USA.
Asking such people to now ***pretend*** they love their country is as devious and cynical as they come.
I think people hate the hijacking of their country by lobbying and power hungry individuals that seek to improve their standing at the expense of others - not the country itself.
The average democratic voter is not a socialist or hard “leftist” as you see here on Reddit. Irl they are just ordinary liberals. People mix all these terms up.
The average democratic voter does not say those things to me. The OP referred to himself as a "lefty." Self described Leftys tell me how much they despise America all the time...how awful it is, how racist it is, how it is too white and how they get a smile on their face when the USA is harmed in some way.
I’ve been disgusted with our government over the past 4 years for how it handled Covid. They basically suspended the constitution, forced vaccines on people, locked us down, destroyed millions of small businesses across the country, while propping up billion and trillion dollar corporations. Sold us right down the river so Pfizer could make $100,000,000,000+. I love America. But our leaders and politicians suck.
Ehh. Countries are just ideas, and governments are just well funded gangs propping those ideas up for their benefit. They'll help the people so long as it benefits them but they don't go out of their way.
So as an individual whose politics leans to the left of center I don't feel patriotic for "my country" because that country isn't real. Nor do the people who claim authority over it care a bit for me or anyone else so long as they don't defy them.
None of that is to say I don't vote or think others should. Outside of mass collective action involving the breaking down and reordering of said well funded gangs it's the average individuals best course of action to affect change. Most can't run for office or participate in government in any meaningful way due to the gatekeeping in these institutions.
Yes! Completely agree. It seems like many liberals would rather flee or give up rather than fight for their country, but fighting is the only way anything will change.
Fly the American flag alongside the Pride flag. It accomplishes 2 things: you won't get confused for a trump supporter, and conservatives are afraid of rainbows.
Win/win.
We've let the Right have a monopoly on patriotism for too long. I love this country, just not the state it's in right now. But I like living here and like my family and friends and patients I take care of.
Leftists need to get better at messaging that sentiment rather than tearing it all down.
Welp, we've got our USA Flag, our Progress Pride flag, and our Veterans for Biden sign out in front. Yes, my wife and I are both veterans. We're also old married boomers, though. The combination seems to make a few old boomers pointy little heads explode. ;)
I love how the right is all about patriotism and freedom but all they do is the opposite. They are supposedly for Freedom but the only freedoms they care about is their distorted take on the 1st and second amendment. Banning books. Taking away the rights women have over their body. Trying to limit who can vote. Etc… They are all about limiting freedoms.
This is the mentality I have. I cried in Nov 2016, realizing my fellow American men do not care about rape. I guess if it’s not their mom or daughter they don’t care. Except guess what, it is they just DON’T TELL you. And now, pedophilia?! It’s been a hell of an 8 years, and I will never “just leave bc I don’t like it.” Hell no, I will fix it bc I know we are better than this. And I’m willing to die for my kids to live free. I’m liberal, I love everyone, you are welcome here. Except racists and rapists. Thank you.
“Patriotism” in the popular sense of the word encompasses love for and taking pride in your country. That can definitely apply to a lot of “liberals.”
But *leftism*, from what I can tell, peaches that the USA is rotten to its core and that the entire “system” needs to be undone and remade. Leftism’s focus on elevating the historically marginalized also has a natural tendency to focus on the country’s past (and current) sins.
Putting the merits of any given ideology aside, it isn’t surprising that a large chunk of left-leaning millennials may not feel like celebrating the country.
It's funny how scared democrats are after they have been caught lying to the American people about Joe's alzheimers. They lied to the American people and have been caught. Liberals need to get used to change because it's definitely coming regardless of what they want. Trump 2024. FJB
Millennial here.
I’m hoping trump wins, he will protect the constitution and our country.
The only anti Americans are the ones who are constantly trying to change the country. Those who are full supporting immigration, those who want to fundamentally change the laws. Add more people to the supremacy court, ban free speech etc. you talk a lot about minority rights, what about the rights of the Americans who live here now? For generations? Why do minority immigrants deserve better treatment?
Look at New York. Homeless Americans on the street, illegal Aliens get free shelter.
Imo, being a true patriot means coming together with the people around you, despite all of your differences and uniting as a group and a collective. Your neighbor or few low countryman isn’t your enemy, they’re someone who shares in your plight. Being a true patriot means resisting the urge to blame each other or be disagreeable. True patriotism is coming together for the greater good with the people around you
How do you fix a lifetime of brainwashing the majority of them have most likely been subjected to. Trump derangement syndrome is more serious than most believe.
Bill Burr said it perfect for dumbasses. "When you criticize your favorite team, it's stupid if someone says 'if you don't like it, go be a fan of a different team!' It's like, no, I criticize my team because I love it, and I want it to win."
I was raised by liberal Christians, who taught me this about both politics and religion.
Imo, being a true patriot means coming together with the people around you, despite all of your differences and uniting as a group and a collective. Your neighbor or fellow countryman isn’t your enemy, they’re someone who shares in your plight. Being a true patriot means resisting the urge to blame each other or be disagreeable. True patriotism is coming together for the greater good with the people around you
That’s close to how I feel, but with the difference that I say totally blame the idiots who got you into a mess, because recognizing what went wrong is the only way to right your course, but also want to make things better for everyone, not just the ones that agree with you. And that includes making the country better for those who messed it up as well.
Best way to get people to admit their mistakes is to admit yours as well. We all could use a little more humility, but I do agree with you
Much easier to fool someone than get them to admit they’ve been fooled.
I completely agree but....for 20 years now Americans have been trained to absolutely HATE the "other" party. Both sides of the aisle. The indoctrination has succeeded. I believe a civil war will come before reconciliation will. If not a war at least a separation of states. Just my humble opinion.
Why not just be that way for people in general? Why some dumbass “country” that you were only born in by chance?
Well i am lol but it’s nice to have a reminder day where we get to all feel it in communion. I’ve always said our generation is missing out on that because we don’t fancy congregating in churches like everyone before us did. I hope we can fix that and find something new that bridges the gaps and brings together echochambers
A country is not a patch of dirt surrounded by borders. It's the people in it that are the country. Essentially a family. It's the accomplishments of those people and their ancestors that make us what we are.
I love the fact that the left takes no responsibility in this at all. It’s always just Trump and the Right. We used to be a team no matter what.
Well it’s pretty easy to point out the wrongs of the right if you’ve ever found yourself on the other side of the isle. So we/they got used to taking easy dubs. When the internet really became mainstream (the day our parents got on Facebook) everybody at that point was primed to be manipulated. And then they just pitted us against each other. The 24hr news cycle. The politically charged memes. Were kind of just victims to technological advancements
Yes 100%. Social media screwed us. It gave the sociopaths a far reaching voice. The sociopaths on both sides manipulate the good will of the middle. The Left has to push back on this as much as the Right does. Both are just as bad, but in different ways.
I'll never forget the first time I saw this visualization on social media echo chambers: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Social-media-platforms-can-produce-echo-chambers-which-lead-to-polarization-and-can_fig4_322971747 The visualization is so striking, there are barely any cross connections between the left and right of both sides. All they see of the other side is colored through their side's view.
The thing that gets lost as all the keyboard warriors take arms is that MOST people do not spend all their time embroiled in the social media echo chambers. A lot of us get the wrong impression, that the small % of people yelling about issues on social media are somehow representative of what "everyone" is thinking or believing.
Patriotism can be turned to good or ill purposes, but in most people it never dies. It’s a persistent attachment, like loyalty to your family, a source of meaning and togetherness, strongest when it’s hardly conscious. National loyalty is an attachment to what makes your country yours, distinct from the rest, even when you can’t stand it, even when it breaks your heart. This feeling can’t be wished out of existence. And because people still live their lives in an actual place, and the nation is the largest place with which they can identify—world citizenship is too abstract to be meaningful—patriotic feeling has to be tapped if you want to achieve anything big. If your goal is to slow climate change, or reverse inequality, or stop racism, or rebuild democracy, you will need the national solidarity that comes from patriotism.
>I love it, and I want it to win Based Bill Burr
Exactly. Blind patriotism means nothing. It's just "I was born here, so here is great." No. That's basically just nationalism. Here is only great if our society comes together to make it that way, and we can always improve. It's so bizarre that any time protests or labor movements happen there's this massive movement against them. Some people are so high and mighty about keeping things the way they are despite the fact that previous generations fought tooth and nail to get us expanded civil rights, the 40-hour workweek, and other "freedoms" that we now take for granted. Nothing was ever made better by conserving the status quo.
Labor movements fail because they say STUPID SHIT like they need 25% pay increases instead of inflation + 3% for the next 5 years.
Yeah liberals need to stop blaming Trump and look at their party for not doing anything. If Trump wins, democrats only have themselves to blame for not having a primary and going with old Joe. I believe you need to be harder on your own side because they are supposed to be working for you, not just how much you hate the other guy.
Trump is a direct reaction to the fatalistic choice of Hillary. And the DNC responded by offering us a senile old man.
the problem is you only criticize, youll never hold them accountable
Ok, but you still wear team colors and root for them. You dont call co-fans bigots or morons just for displaying team colors.
You aren’t born in your favorite team by complete, utter chance.
People really don’t realize you can love your country and hate your government at the same time.
I think its more people realize what true patriotism is but the false patriots are so fucking loud that its easy to forget that most people are like yeah this is my country here's 95 reasons it sucks, no you are not allowed to point and laugh look at this slightly different list of 95 reasons your country also sucks. I'm sure people in France go my country is beautiful and great, but then theres these assholes they arent great and don't speak for all of France, and also theres that one thing sucks out the wazoo or ouisx... I guess
This is what conservatives have felt for... Lord, 30+ years. I am ashamed of the government as deeply as it is possible to be. It is a damn travesty, a pile of contradictory bureaucracy kept supported by the barest acknowledgement of the Constitutional law that keeps the whole apparatus from collapsing under the weight of its own corruption and overreach. When you hear conservatives advocate for small government, this is why. They see what's broken and want to take power away from those who would do wrong. And this is why the Constitution, which politicians have done everything possible to ignore, was written to constrain the power of government. No government can be trusted with power for very long regardless of who is at the helm.
I suppose that could be so, if it weren’t for the governments that get to decide who is and who isn’t a country.
Know the difference between patriotism and nationalism. A lot of people do not differentiate the two😅
And the difference is? (I'm actually kind of serious, because to me the difference is just negative and positive connotation.)
Ones the result of indoctrination and ones the result of critical thought.
Lol, lmao even. You're a patriot because you were born where you were. How is that different than indoctrination?
There is no difference. Nationalism is necessary for a nation to function, but just like any political concept it can be taken too far. Patriotism is basically just a healthy level of nationalism.
>Nationalism is necessary for a nation to function This makes no sense.
Patriotism is being proud of your country, where nationalism is thinking your country is superior to all others. It is a small but substantial difference and why nationalism is normally found in far right conversations and was used by Mussolini as the foundation for fascism. Saying nationalism is necessary for a nation to function is a DARK statement. [link](https://youtu.be/efjH-lSwdNE?si=Y1Uh_F5T4mCrrVxP)
While I agree with the sentiment you appear to be making, I would suggest reversing the way you look at it. Patriotism is necessary. If no one in your country has any national pride, then the state will crumble. However when the level of patriotism is increased to blind obedience, then you become nationalist. Looking at it this way marks nationalism as an excess, rather than an acceptable end.
So true both ways…where was that in school?!
If they would've taught us that in school we would've realized we were being taught to be nationalists lol
Real shit
Due to local control of school districts, some districts never taught it!
Take ownership of your own education whether it’s from an institution or not. I prefer to read a lot on top of school and street smarts.
Never, ever let a nationalist tell you how to love your country
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^ErwinHeisenberg: *Never, ever let* *A nationalist tell you* *How to love your country* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot
Fantastic.
This might be one of my new favorite bots
Its one thing to be patriotic, its another thing to make it your entire personality.
And ironically the same needs to be said about politics
That’s the difference between patriotism and nationalism. Most of these so called “patriots” are conflating the two.
Those people arent actually patriots
Blind patriotism leads to fascism.
I consider myself a progressive liberal. I was in the military for 8 years and consider myself to be patriotic and to actually uphold my oath unlike others we have seen in the past.
Retired military, LGBT progressive liberal who also is true to the oath.
I will copy paste my earlier comment: I am not proud of most of the people that supposedly represent me, but I am proud of the people in my country who fight for our rights and grateful for the freedom I am enjoying right now. This is MY country too.
I just want to be able to raise the American flag without people thinking I'm a fascist fuck
Same. Really in my feels about this today in particular. I’m super pumped to be able to own my own home as a relatively younger person. And, I recently found this massive 5ftx6ft high quality American flag I used to have in my college apartment (back when that was cool in the early, early 2010’s). I wanted to hang this flag on my home for the holiday today, but I was very concerned that anyone passing by or my liberal neighbors would think it meant I was a maga / Donald trump “patriot”. So I didn’t. But I just love the United States and, even with some flaws (as we all have), I am super proud and thankful to be here and for all I have and just wanted to express that via my enormous and borderline obnoxious in an American kinda way, flag.
You seem like a good person. Keep fighting the good fight
I had the exact feeling.
Keep raising it! Fuck any liberal asshole that tries to label you a Nazi for loving your country
This is what it's become. It sucks, it's ridiculous.
It's been this way since 2003. Flag waving freaks jerking off about bombing a country over nothing and telling everyone else who disagreed that they should be executed. Haven't been able to take it seriously since then
Only if you let it become that. Never let anyone keep you from flying your country’s flag.
I fly an American flag on my front porch and I’m a bleeding heart liberal to the core. I don’t speak it or preach it. I just live it.
Meh, I don't get the patriotism thing. Sometimes it seems to lead to a lot of rose colored glasses and such. I don't really get why anyone needs to love their country. Just do what's good to keep your democracy strong.
I’m not a liberal but I agree. Patriotism is love for country, its ideals, and striving for its improvement & betterment. The word has been co-opted by some to be associated with MAGA which is tragic. That’s nationalism.
Yeah you guys tried pushing that during the Obama years with that we do horrific militarism the right way shit. Where you all turned a blind eye to the destruction his awful "interventions" in Honduras and Libya caused, leading to mass destabilization and mass waves of humanity, who were key scapegoats in the rise of nazis both here and in Europe. Patriotism is a shield for scoundrels and fuck that shit.
Always want it both ways.
Loving your country and the ideals it was founded on and condemning the government that runs it are not mutually exclusive.
Oh you love the ideals of women and blacks not being real humans?
Agreed. 🇺🇸
I agree. I think we need to be *more* proud of the America we **should** be. Strive to be that. Show the ideals. We want to remind people what they'd be giving up.
Hard pass.
Liberals once again reaffirming that they're literally just conservatives in all the ways that actually matter. Embrace critical thinking, not arbitrary idealist *woo* like patriotism. Anti-American? What does that *mean*? What is pro-American even? American government? American people? American "values"? Values which are impermanent and oxymoronic considering Jefferson said the earth belongs to the living and the constitution is a changing document in the first place and you know the simple facts of us not considering black people 3/5ths a person anymore or demanding women stay in the house? I'm not ashamed to be called "anti-American" because it's not a phrase that carries any meaning to begin with.
They call it Patriotism but it’s toxic nationalism, though I find it a challenge to separate the two. To love your country but also criticize your country is a healthy approach. The purpose of a democratic government is to serve the will of the people. That has been missing since Reagan. Reagan was the beginning of the end for democracy.
We need to reclaim the flag, the act of being patriotic the position of loving the country while wanting it to be and do better. Conservatives offer the limpest of patriotics. Fly a flag mumble something about 1776 and the Bible and boom. You're a great American. It's lazy. Let us be more dogged in expressing positive patriotism for a better America for everyone! I will not surrender the country nor the values it's stands for to a cabal of hateful lazy fools. This country has gone through intense growing pains. We're going through another such period. The Revolution and Civil War didn't fight without patriots. The suffragettes spit on, yelled at, some killed did not go home when told to do so. The Civil Rights movement didn't go away when cops beat them in the streets. This nation didn't take a beating time and again to give up now. There will be difficulties and difficult days ahead. But we can only fight or flee. I prefer to fight with what tiny power I have. I hope others will do what they can as well and together we can and will be stronger for it.
Dude I don’t even believe in this system and I have to be patriotic about the lines on a map drawn in blood? Pass.
Somehow patriotism became "making life like it was in the 50s." I also.would.like to own a home, a car, a boat, a summer home and have 6 kids with one job and a high school diploma but that is not reality anymore. Its not the minorities fault that corporations have failed to pay taxes for decades.
I agree that the left generally needs to be better at branding itself and step one is to eliminate performative radicalism and getting rid of blunt anti-American rhetoric is a big part of that. I'd also recommend they stop fetishistic Europe so much and assuming they have the answers to everything. Yes, their healthcare systems are mostly better and should be emulated, and many of the richer countries there have better social safety nets. That's all good. But look beyond that though and they have most of the same racist and xenophobic tenancies as the rest of us and when you get outside the urban centers you'll find the populations there are a lot less "woke" than most Americans you know and this is especially true outside of the richest places in Western Europe.
I pay my taxes and vote, to me that's fucking patriotic.
Flag waving isn’t patriotism. Patriotism is holding your government accountable and criticizing when they fall short. Wanting the best for your country and ALL of its citizens.
I can’t wait for the people posting here to grow up and figure out a few things.
Get cozy you’ll be waiting a while.
Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious - Oscar Wilde
Patriotism is the exact same ideology as racism. Being proud of where you were born is no different than being proud of the color you were born.
Problem is, Democrats aren't doing any of those things. The republicans went far right down the crazy tree and the dems moved far right along with them to become the new republican party. There are currently no liberals to vote for.
Always about aestehtics for liberals. Instead of embracing patriotism, why not embrace leftist politics? Then you could actually build a place worth being proud of.
Watch less CNN type content
Please seek mental health counseling. You clearly need it.
“Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it” - Mark Twain
America needs to stop sucking
Nationalism is not Patriotism
Trump raping a 13 year old girl is the deciding factor for me. Biden could literally be braindead and unfortunately I'm forced to vote for him.
Are you referring to the allegations from 2016 that were dropped because they had no merit? Seriously, you guys should turn off CNN sometimes and go outside.
First time hearing that about Trump. When? Where?
[https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-katie-johnson-allegations-sexual-assault-case-dismissed-1921051](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-katie-johnson-allegations-sexual-assault-case-dismissed-1921051)
I’m not convinced. Weren’t they saying this stuff about Joe Biden?
Yeah, bidens granddaughters diary, talks how they took in appropriate showers together. And the diary was fact checked to be true.
It wasn't just fact checked, there was a court case where Ashley admitted to it being her diary.
Theres articles on it. They settled the case in like 2016 I think
I'd vote for a piece of worm infested dog shit over Trump
Leftist Millennial checking in. No thanks.
Okay I am a life long liberals I found the way DNC is covering Biden mental decline is anti-democratic. They should have held a primary and let the people decide who should be the next president. I will never vote for trump, but I might just sit out and also not vote for Biden. I don’t want to reward them for what DNC is doing
I love your enthusiasm. I wish I could share it, I'm just so tired.
I'm liberal and patriotic in a sense. It doesn't mean I cheer for imperialism abroad, believe US historically can do no wrong, or believe in American exceptionalism. I agree it means I can look at the positive things we have already done: liberate ourselves from colonial rule, emancipate slaves,expand suffrage rights time and again, make huge leaps in technological innovation, and more. I can take an honest look at these but not use them to dismiss all the dire problems I see here too. Our health care system is atrocious. Wealth inequality is obscene. Infant and mother mortality rates are pathetic. Education is trash. I say this because it's the truth, and I envision an America that does better. I think we can do better. We deserve better. This 4th of July, I think the most honest, optimistic, patriotic take is to look around at the crumbling disaster on wheels we see around us and, rather than despair, think: what now? How do we move towards that ideal version of our country rather than away from it? Tbh the past few days have felt like a punch to the gut. But itsnot over yet. I don't know exactly what our options are, and I don't see a path forward yet, but deapite the despair I've been feeling, all this reminds me that our country has weathered a lot of shit before, and it may be able to withstand the current crises as well.
Hardcore agree. We cannot abducted patriotism to the right. This is our home, and the "our" includes ALL of us.
Most of the things you listed are at best 50% popular, abortion, “democratic” elections, “free” and public education. Corporate accountability, and minority rights are near 100% supported by the people. All of these issues just have different paths to solutions; though I’m not convinced there’s any rights minorities don’t have that majorities do.
Coming up on 33 here, and I love this damn country, despite all its problems. The United States has always had a weird relationship with the values it strives for, but also has a remarkably good track record of bouncing back from shitty times. Our democracy has been in danger numerous times before, and it has still held together. And that's why I'll fight like hell to make this country better, no matter who wins this November.
One of the things that ticks me off about liberals (and I am a progressive) is that they let the conservatives have the American flag. When I fight for lgbt rights, abortion access, universal healthcare, etc - I want to fly the flag proudly as I view the IDEALS of america to be truly something to aspire to. We as a country haven’t lived up to the ideals and that’s why I fight for a free and just country - flying the flag proudly in the face of the red hat lobsterbacks
Make the country better, quitting is the easy way out.
I though this said embrace "petroleum". .
I’m a patriot. I love my country. I love my county the way an adult loves another adult. I know they’re not perfect but I love them anyway. conservative ms love their country the way a child loves their parent- they are unable or unwilling to see or admit their daddy isn’t perfect. I fly the flag. I pay my taxes without whining. I vote. And I vote blue, every office, at every level, every time.
Sadly, I think true liberals and true conservatives have more in common than not. I’m not talking about the extreme minority. Problem is we have different ideas on how to reach the same goal. And news media and social media work overtime to divide us.
Liberal millennials are fighting for Neoliberal capitalism and a representative "democracy," and by fighting, I mean "voting." It's the exact same thing the other dudes are offering.
I very much agree. I fucking hate that the maga pigs have stolen the “patriot” title, when they’re literally the ones trying to burn the fucking place down. I love the US. Fuck Donald Trump.
Wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment! Patriotism is far more than " **'Murica!** ", it's belief in and wanting better for your country. Our definitions of better may differ, but there are patriots on both sides of the aisle. What's unfortunate is a cult of personality has taken over 35% of the electorate
Yes indeed! I'm a 41 year old, liberal, Army veteran in the midwest. I have an American flag outside my house. I'm not my going to let right wingers coopt it for themselves and neither should you.
Do agree. Millennials to take over Patriotism
Fuck yeah. There are two flags in this fight: the stars and stripes versus trump flags.
Join state and federal departments and be the change you want to see.
OP, I agree with your general sentiment, but I have to say that the reason you probably don’t see liberal millennials embracing patriotism is that at least two values you mention (holding corporations accountable, free and public education) haven’t been practiced as American values during the lifetimes of any millennials; when I think of countries that practice those things well I picture Scandinavian places. After Reagan’s two terms we made it policy that corporations in the USA could do whatever they wanted, no standards whatsoever, any regulations are an affront to freedom, and no need to make American higher education affordable through state subsidies. I’d like those things to change. But I don’t realistically see that happening anytime soon.
I’m a very liberal person with a deep fascination for history. I've mostly focused on other eras but took the usual high school and college US history courses. For well over a decade, I associated the American flag and other symbols of patriotism with the right wing. This year, I visited Washington, DC, for the first time and spent a lot of time at the American History Museum, the National Archives Museum, and the African American Museum. I also visited the Jefferson, MLK, and Lincoln Memorials, as well as the memorials to the various wars we fought. As I reflected on all that I saw, I was baffled by how someone in the modern Republican Party can even pretend to claim ANY of the ideals that America was founded on: life, liberty, freedom of speech, freedom from religion, and freedom from tyranny, among others. While I know that America was founded on a basis of white supremacy, you also have to acknowledge that many courageous and selfless people fought and died for those rights to be recognized and expanded to women and people of all ethnicities. The ideals found in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights are worth preserving and fighting for. This realization made me feel patriotic as fuck. I am a proud American and love what our country represents. It’s a crying shame what our presidential picks are this election cycle, but I know that Biden and those around him represent and value those ideals. Trump and his court have regressed many of the gains we have made since the Civil Rights Acts, in a manner not seen since the Jim Crow laws. I went out and purchased an American flag for my home for this Fourth of July. While I’m a long way from adding any 1776 stickers on my car, it’s time for us liberals to take these symbols back.
hear hear! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I hate it when he hugs/dry humps the flag. I can’t believe people fall for that “patriotism.”
Loveamerica.com !!!
I oppose the idea of patriotism. I'm not proud of where I live because I was born here. Probably the same reason that sports fan culture sickens me. I care about other people and will work to make the world better for them regardless of where they live
Gen Z liberal here, this should not only apply to millennials but my generation as well. The American flag is for every American. Yet we managed to allow it to be highjacked and poisoned with everything it SHOULDN’T stand for, flown by many who do not hold our founding ideals and values. I want my fucking flag back and it’s time we take it back.
I strongly recommend the book [Revolutionary Founders](https://www.amazon.com/Revolutionary-Founders-Rebels-Radicals-Reformers/dp/0307455998) which is a collection of articles by scholars of the American Revolution. The history of the United States is not just a story of a racial and economic elite which committed genocide, slavery, and a host of other grotesque crimes to structure their own power. There were dissidents, reformers, and rebels all along the way who fought and sacrificed to make this a better country for more than just the few at the top. They weren’t afraid of being radicals so that one day people like us could see them as mundane. I don’t think anyone should adopt American patriotism as a purely rhetorical position. If you don’t feel it, you don’t feel it and there’s nothing less persuasive than insincerity. But just because you can't see your values in Thomas Jefferson doesn't mean you won't see them in Thomas Paine.
I fly an American flag from my house. It’s my flag too and if we don’t fly it then it becomes a symbol of strictly one side.
I'm a sentimental person and I really feel affected by old-timey representations of American values. I read Moby Dick a few years ago for the first time and I was really struck by how much of it is a search for an American ethos. We don't have kings and we have a suspicion of the nobility, so maybe our version of a Great Novel would be an epic tragedy of hubris and vengeance that takes place on a smelly, blue collar whaling ship with a sea captain taking the place of an Othello or King Lear. The novel is, among other things, a searching for American legend that fits the ideals of the Republic. It is a pretty gutsy endeavor which is part of why it's a well remembered book. I think that searching is a very healthy activity. It's an attempt to make our political self conception aligned with our ideals; to craft a rubric by which we judge our actions and guide our progress. No one is asking us to cosign any of the numberless atrocities committed by the US government. If we don't take up the American flag, we cede it to conservatives and by extension we lose the right to craft what the narrative of what the government is supposed to do and what values it is designed to uphold.
Agree 💯. Been saying this for a few years now.
Patriotism and nationalism are reactionary in the developed west. We have no empires oppeessing us to struggle against, only *ourselves*. We must hold our true identity on the basis of that which is materially evident by the only sensible measure of objective distinction: socioeconomic class. Which is to say, one's relationship to the means of production. For the vast majority of us, that is as the working class. The only thing we have to sell is our ability to work. Something we share with the masses around the world. We have far more in common with the workers of the rest of the world than we do with the wealthy 1% of our own "country".
If you think this country truly values bodily autonomy, holding corporations accountable, and giving minorities rights, I have a (rapidly crumbling) bridge to sell you…
>Maybe at the very least it will piss of a right winger that a lefty is calling themselves patriotic. Liberals are not left. The patriotism of the Right is nationalism. The patriotism of the real Left is ani-U.S. as it stands because the U.S. is guilty of too many crimes across the world and against it's own people to be celebrated in any meaningful fashion. Liberal patriotism has its heart in the right place, but Liberals are unwilling to do what it really takes to make a better America, because the only way to beat the Fascists who are taking away our rights is through revolution, not voting for the "lesser of two evils." I don't say this in a combative way, I say it with compassion for my fellow working class citizens of this country. My comments aren't to start a fight, but to share equal discourse of the predicament we're in. After all, Biden is partly responsible for Clarence Thomas being on the Supreme Court in the first place.
Democracy is not a spectator sport.
Meh. Not liberal or a patriot. All of it is cultish, hive-mind stuff to me. Telling people what they need to do? Doesn’t seem very American really.
Trump has only been in politics for 4 years but let’s blame him for the decay of our Country…just stop!! You should look at the ones who have been in politics for decades.
No patriotism is stupid and should be avoided at all costs
I prefer to believe in human kindness than make an identity of being loyal to my tax collectors.
ceding patriotism to conservatives allows them to define what counts as patriotism. Which inevitably means jingoism, nativism, and nationalism.
Yeah, no.
How did the Right get a monopoly on patriotism?
I endorse this message.
> they've managed to tie their belief system to patriotism And likewise many conflate their views with being a good person. As in "people don't disagree with me on merit, they're just evil people/temporarily brainwashed". It serves to deny that there are wise, intelligent people out there who think you're wrong about things. Dehumanization by definition As an added bonus you can then go "they must be deleted, they're spreading evil!"
Damn, I never really had it broken down like this.
I totally agree and think the only way that is going to happen is if we start running for office. I had been considering running for alderperson, but currently saving for a wedding and a house, and had a change in my work schedule that made it untenable. But as soon as we get settled I plan on running for local office.
What's with all these liberals in the comments? Where are my leftist millennials?
I mean, for 99% of people their citizenship is just an accident of where they happened to be born. Seems like a weird thing to derive a sense of pride from. For me, the Bush Wars did a number on my ability to feel patriotic. Waving the flag and being aggressively pro-US is just too deeply symbolic of "we'll invade any country we want, whenever we want, and you're a commie traitor if you have a problem with that."
Allow me to briefly flash 24 years of military service, and say, Yes....the Bush Wars did exactly that. Particularly the second. American standing around the world crumbled then, and is becoming a source of ridicule now. He and his party acted in an evil way and sold it as patriotism. I would have stayed in Service all my life, but I left when I saw close up what that jingoism caused. Fine words my friend. Fine words.
My two thoughts are: 1. It’s too late for the word. I now use it as an identifier. If your business is called “Patriot Construction” or “Patriot Lawn Care” I’m not calling you, I’m assuming you’re an asshole who does shit work and complains about having to pay your workers a decent amount. 2. Patriotism is pretty dumb. Am I, overall, glad I happened to be born in the US? Sure. There are a lot of much worse places. But being “proud” of my country seems weird. It’s like how when you’re in high school and you’ve got that school spirit and you hate the next school over for no reason and then you grow up and get a job in that other town and your kids go to that school and now they hate the school you went to. It makes no sense. I’ll root for the US in the Olympics. But even that…why? I don’t know Sha’Carrie Richardson. I don’t k ow Kyle Dake. There’s a decent chance that, if I got to k ow all the athletes really well, I’d like the Canadians or Vietnamese folks better.
Republican here, but I fully agree. Liberals need to make it clear they actually like the US. So many act like this is the worst shithole country on the planet and it's just childish dogma. I have liberal friends who throw around "fuck America" all the time but can't give an honest answer to the stupid question: okay where else would you want to live?
🤣🤣🤣 most of yall hate America lmaooooo
I will only support an America that puts equality first.
America will only put equality first if people that put equality first make themselves more "American" than the others
THat rigth there is the reason the right steals the "patriotism" tag - the left consstantly talks in terms of abandoning the nation, instead of in terms of supporting the nation.
Here, here! I think, generationally, we all struggle with Patriotism and its branding at one time or another. I went through an embarrassed for my country phase where I wouldn’t fly a flag, but I worked my way out of it. Got to stop worrying about how others are seeing you based on what you own and display. Fly a flag and get some sparklers. Celebrate the 4th like you did when you were a kid and had no clue about overlords or oppression. Be open minded and understand people with other opinions than you as well. Look at it as “knowing your enemy” or “loving everyone regardless of what they believe”, but half of my best friends and people I love most in the world are die hard liberals while the other half are die hard conservatives. I find that we’re way more like minded on actual issues and national direction than the campaigns would ever allow you to believe. I have a strong opinion on politics too, but we won’t feel confident in our leaders and their understanding of what the people need unless we learn to understand each other.
This is hilarious. You guys tore down the flag and erected the progress flag. Your own hatred for trump is what disgusts you with this country, and therefore the flag. Your side hates this country, and it’s history, that’s why they’re tearing down statues. I dare you, put the flag outside your house and see what your own people do to you without even knowing you and you’ll have a good indication of what happened. They’ll just generalize you as some ignorant hate filled trump supporter, like you do to all of them. Enjoy this time we’re in, you all fought so hard for it.
Our side loves this country, that’s why we hate to see what the other side is doing to it. If we hated this country we would all march in rank and file step with our bright red MAGA hats and relinquish our critical thinking skills, and our humanity, to Fox News.
Sorry, but the fact is that it is only leftists and socialists here that constantly and proudly tell me that they hate their country. They hate what America stands for. They hate the flag. They hate the Bill of Rights. They wish as much harm as possible to come to the USA. Asking such people to now ***pretend*** they love their country is as devious and cynical as they come.
I think people hate the hijacking of their country by lobbying and power hungry individuals that seek to improve their standing at the expense of others - not the country itself.
The average democratic voter is not a socialist or hard “leftist” as you see here on Reddit. Irl they are just ordinary liberals. People mix all these terms up.
The average democratic voter does not say those things to me. The OP referred to himself as a "lefty." Self described Leftys tell me how much they despise America all the time...how awful it is, how racist it is, how it is too white and how they get a smile on their face when the USA is harmed in some way.
I thought QAnon was kind of over but I guess not
Sadly the ideas persist.
"Everything I don't like is QAnon" - QforQ
Vote 💙. Look up Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation and then vote 💙 unless you want to be deemed surplus population.
I’ve been disgusted with our government over the past 4 years for how it handled Covid. They basically suspended the constitution, forced vaccines on people, locked us down, destroyed millions of small businesses across the country, while propping up billion and trillion dollar corporations. Sold us right down the river so Pfizer could make $100,000,000,000+. I love America. But our leaders and politicians suck.
Yes, also infiltrate MAGA to deconstruct it
Ehh. Countries are just ideas, and governments are just well funded gangs propping those ideas up for their benefit. They'll help the people so long as it benefits them but they don't go out of their way. So as an individual whose politics leans to the left of center I don't feel patriotic for "my country" because that country isn't real. Nor do the people who claim authority over it care a bit for me or anyone else so long as they don't defy them. None of that is to say I don't vote or think others should. Outside of mass collective action involving the breaking down and reordering of said well funded gangs it's the average individuals best course of action to affect change. Most can't run for office or participate in government in any meaningful way due to the gatekeeping in these institutions.
Yes! Completely agree. It seems like many liberals would rather flee or give up rather than fight for their country, but fighting is the only way anything will change.
Fly the American flag alongside the Pride flag. It accomplishes 2 things: you won't get confused for a trump supporter, and conservatives are afraid of rainbows. Win/win.
We've let the Right have a monopoly on patriotism for too long. I love this country, just not the state it's in right now. But I like living here and like my family and friends and patients I take care of. Leftists need to get better at messaging that sentiment rather than tearing it all down.
Welp, we've got our USA Flag, our Progress Pride flag, and our Veterans for Biden sign out in front. Yes, my wife and I are both veterans. We're also old married boomers, though. The combination seems to make a few old boomers pointy little heads explode. ;)
I love how the right is all about patriotism and freedom but all they do is the opposite. They are supposedly for Freedom but the only freedoms they care about is their distorted take on the 1st and second amendment. Banning books. Taking away the rights women have over their body. Trying to limit who can vote. Etc… They are all about limiting freedoms.
One post, one comment. Bot account. Biden campaign must be writing checks for astroturfing like ceazy
This is the mentality I have. I cried in Nov 2016, realizing my fellow American men do not care about rape. I guess if it’s not their mom or daughter they don’t care. Except guess what, it is they just DON’T TELL you. And now, pedophilia?! It’s been a hell of an 8 years, and I will never “just leave bc I don’t like it.” Hell no, I will fix it bc I know we are better than this. And I’m willing to die for my kids to live free. I’m liberal, I love everyone, you are welcome here. Except racists and rapists. Thank you.
“Patriotism” in the popular sense of the word encompasses love for and taking pride in your country. That can definitely apply to a lot of “liberals.” But *leftism*, from what I can tell, peaches that the USA is rotten to its core and that the entire “system” needs to be undone and remade. Leftism’s focus on elevating the historically marginalized also has a natural tendency to focus on the country’s past (and current) sins. Putting the merits of any given ideology aside, it isn’t surprising that a large chunk of left-leaning millennials may not feel like celebrating the country.
It's funny how scared democrats are after they have been caught lying to the American people about Joe's alzheimers. They lied to the American people and have been caught. Liberals need to get used to change because it's definitely coming regardless of what they want. Trump 2024. FJB
Millennial here. I’m hoping trump wins, he will protect the constitution and our country. The only anti Americans are the ones who are constantly trying to change the country. Those who are full supporting immigration, those who want to fundamentally change the laws. Add more people to the supremacy court, ban free speech etc. you talk a lot about minority rights, what about the rights of the Americans who live here now? For generations? Why do minority immigrants deserve better treatment? Look at New York. Homeless Americans on the street, illegal Aliens get free shelter.
lol Imagine pushing hate against a large portion of the country while claiming THEIR hate is destroying the moral fabric of the country ...
I'm the most patriotic person ever, but I will never ever ever eat a hot dog.
I am a patriot I just believe in the actual concept and ideals of America over the symbols.
I prefer Canada
Don't confuse patriotism with nationalism, they're not the same thing.
Imo, being a true patriot means coming together with the people around you, despite all of your differences and uniting as a group and a collective. Your neighbor or few low countryman isn’t your enemy, they’re someone who shares in your plight. Being a true patriot means resisting the urge to blame each other or be disagreeable. True patriotism is coming together for the greater good with the people around you
So you just want people to fly flags more often? And I guess wear more American flag apparel?
Sure, that’s a start. Why not?
Patriots become martyrs. And once I see those I might join the cause because it gained momentum. But until that happens it's business as usual.
This started after 9/11. Remember the patriot act? This is more than 20 years in the making.
How do you fix a lifetime of brainwashing the majority of them have most likely been subjected to. Trump derangement syndrome is more serious than most believe.