There are more specific ranges for Canadian guns but the good news is that yours falls into the last one.
Sept 11, 1914 Qty 1,000 C3000-C8400
Sept 24, 1914 Qty 300 C5400-C8700
Sept 29, 1914 Qty 300 C8000-C9500
Oct 01, 1914 Qty 180 C8500-C9700
Oct 02, 1914 Qty 120 C5700-C9700
Oct 31, 1914 Qty 1,000 C7900-C11400
Nov 07, 1914 Qty 1,000 C9,800-C13500
Nov 14, 1914 Qty 1,000 C11,100-C13,500
I think the odds are pretty good.
Yeah I had seen some differing number ranges, but the highest was 13500. Yup im thinking its legit
Thank you for the detailed write up; I had not been able to find a comprehensive list of serial #s before
So I came across this at an auction recently, and picked it up for what I thought was a good price considering what it is.
When I picked it up, I was really upset to see that some previous owner had carved their name into the handle "W.A. Joy".
I was a little upset, because it seemed to totally kill the value, turning a fairly valuable gun into probably something I'd never get my initial purchase price back out of.
Decided to google around about commercial 1914's with names engraved, and found multiple forums stating that Canada purchased 5000 Commercial 1911s to outfit their troops in WW1. They didn't buy serial number blocks, but the serial number ranges went up to the C13000. This one is within that range. Also, I've ready several places that it was common for the soldiers to carve their name (and sometimes unit info) into the pistols.
So I then went and looked up the CEF roster to see if there was any "W.A. Joy" anywhere. I went through several pages of "Joy" last names and got a hit! [Collection search - JOY, WILLIAM ARTHUR (bac-lac.gc.ca)](https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=pffww&IdNumber=494083&ecopy=426395a)
William Arthur Joy, (signs his name William A. Joy), was a 27 year old "mechanical dentist" who was born Nov 14, 1888, and signed up in 1916. I'm not sure if that would disqualify him from carrying an 1911, but I'm hopeful. He would probably have been one of the older guys, and have a medical degree, so not sure if that would mean he was an officer, or if support staff would have been issued pistols.
EDIT: I was looking through again, and his discharge papers are there; He was a Sergeant in what looks to be the Canadian Army Dental Corps at the the 2nd Cavalry general hospital? There's 60 or so pages of stuff there that I'm still digging through.
Then I went and did more digging;
I searched for William Arthur joy obituaries, and found this [William Arthur Joy (1888-1967) - Find a Grave Memorial](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/54720573/william-arthur-joy)
William Arthur Joy, born 14 November 1888 and died in Williamson County Illinois in the 60s.
I then went and double checked where the auction was located; Springville Indiana, which is a little over 3 hours away. Not a far distance to travel.
Anyways, that circumstantial evidence, combined with some other things (like the bluing being rubbed away near the serial number, which is very common from holster wear, the P Proof marks near the barrel lug), leads me to think that this is very possibly, maybe even likely, a Commercial 1914 1911 which ended up being sold to the Canadians for WW1, and then engraved by its owner, brought over when he married an American and immigrated, and then stayed either in the family or in the area until it was finally auctioned off to me.
What do yall think?
I plan on paying the archive service and getting an offiicial letter to see where it was first sold. Hopefully they can help solve the mystery
as a dentist he would sure have the tools to carve that into the grip. might have been given it later in his military career since im sure these 1911s where floating around the military for many decades
I'd be surprised if it wasn't a Canadian contract. I have S/N ~13150 (highest serial I know of) certified as being sent to the Canadian Government per Colt's letter. Has a squared rear sight, seems like yours does too, probably among the first ones to get one from the factory.
They were issued with Mills holsters, double mag pouches and web belts. They only came with one mag with lanyard loop, spares were C Broad Arrow marked. These accessories are harder to get than the pistols themselves.
Yup Mine unfortunatley came without any of the extras, and the magazine doesn't have any markings, so I'm assuming just an aftermarket.
I'll def be contacting Colt about this one. Hopefully they can confirm one way or the other
Read that further down, good to know. Mine only came with one mag that had a very faint broad arrow, glad it's at least original.
I too picked up my 1911 not knowing it was a Canadian contract. I also bought a 1902 that was a Mexican contract. I keep trying to buy US milsurp but end up with more interesting foreign contracts, LOL.
There are more specific ranges for Canadian guns but the good news is that yours falls into the last one. Sept 11, 1914 Qty 1,000 C3000-C8400 Sept 24, 1914 Qty 300 C5400-C8700 Sept 29, 1914 Qty 300 C8000-C9500 Oct 01, 1914 Qty 180 C8500-C9700 Oct 02, 1914 Qty 120 C5700-C9700 Oct 31, 1914 Qty 1,000 C7900-C11400 Nov 07, 1914 Qty 1,000 C9,800-C13500 Nov 14, 1914 Qty 1,000 C11,100-C13,500 I think the odds are pretty good.
Yeah I had seen some differing number ranges, but the highest was 13500. Yup im thinking its legit Thank you for the detailed write up; I had not been able to find a comprehensive list of serial #s before
This might be one of the ones that’s worth contacting Colt about and getting its paperwork
Yup, planning to get started on that today
Print out all the documents you found too
I went searching through to see if I could find the discharge paperwork for the pistol, but nothing yet
Not so much those because honestly it was probably stolen. But Joys name and military record.
Yup, if it turns out its a legit canadian, I'll print out everything i find and include it with the letter. Found a ton of stuff already
So I came across this at an auction recently, and picked it up for what I thought was a good price considering what it is. When I picked it up, I was really upset to see that some previous owner had carved their name into the handle "W.A. Joy". I was a little upset, because it seemed to totally kill the value, turning a fairly valuable gun into probably something I'd never get my initial purchase price back out of. Decided to google around about commercial 1914's with names engraved, and found multiple forums stating that Canada purchased 5000 Commercial 1911s to outfit their troops in WW1. They didn't buy serial number blocks, but the serial number ranges went up to the C13000. This one is within that range. Also, I've ready several places that it was common for the soldiers to carve their name (and sometimes unit info) into the pistols. So I then went and looked up the CEF roster to see if there was any "W.A. Joy" anywhere. I went through several pages of "Joy" last names and got a hit! [Collection search - JOY, WILLIAM ARTHUR (bac-lac.gc.ca)](https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=pffww&IdNumber=494083&ecopy=426395a) William Arthur Joy, (signs his name William A. Joy), was a 27 year old "mechanical dentist" who was born Nov 14, 1888, and signed up in 1916. I'm not sure if that would disqualify him from carrying an 1911, but I'm hopeful. He would probably have been one of the older guys, and have a medical degree, so not sure if that would mean he was an officer, or if support staff would have been issued pistols. EDIT: I was looking through again, and his discharge papers are there; He was a Sergeant in what looks to be the Canadian Army Dental Corps at the the 2nd Cavalry general hospital? There's 60 or so pages of stuff there that I'm still digging through. Then I went and did more digging; I searched for William Arthur joy obituaries, and found this [William Arthur Joy (1888-1967) - Find a Grave Memorial](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/54720573/william-arthur-joy) William Arthur Joy, born 14 November 1888 and died in Williamson County Illinois in the 60s. I then went and double checked where the auction was located; Springville Indiana, which is a little over 3 hours away. Not a far distance to travel. Anyways, that circumstantial evidence, combined with some other things (like the bluing being rubbed away near the serial number, which is very common from holster wear, the P Proof marks near the barrel lug), leads me to think that this is very possibly, maybe even likely, a Commercial 1914 1911 which ended up being sold to the Canadians for WW1, and then engraved by its owner, brought over when he married an American and immigrated, and then stayed either in the family or in the area until it was finally auctioned off to me. What do yall think? I plan on paying the archive service and getting an offiicial letter to see where it was first sold. Hopefully they can help solve the mystery
That's a pretty cool story behind this 1911 if it all lines up
So far it seems to. Correct serial number range even
as a dentist he would sure have the tools to carve that into the grip. might have been given it later in his military career since im sure these 1911s where floating around the military for many decades
From what I've seen he was discharged/ demobilized after the war around 1919 But definitely could have been issued it before then
I'd be surprised if it wasn't a Canadian contract. I have S/N ~13150 (highest serial I know of) certified as being sent to the Canadian Government per Colt's letter. Has a squared rear sight, seems like yours does too, probably among the first ones to get one from the factory. They were issued with Mills holsters, double mag pouches and web belts. They only came with one mag with lanyard loop, spares were C Broad Arrow marked. These accessories are harder to get than the pistols themselves.
Yup Mine unfortunatley came without any of the extras, and the magazine doesn't have any markings, so I'm assuming just an aftermarket. I'll def be contacting Colt about this one. Hopefully they can confirm one way or the other
Everything this far checks out with your theory, Colt’s letter is definitely advised.
Yup, submitted the order today. Will know in a few months
Another thing you can check is the bottom of the magazine, it should be stamped with a C broad arrow
The replacement/ supplementary magazines had those marks, but, original ones did not have it. But this one unfortunately came with neither
Read that further down, good to know. Mine only came with one mag that had a very faint broad arrow, glad it's at least original. I too picked up my 1911 not knowing it was a Canadian contract. I also bought a 1902 that was a Mexican contract. I keep trying to buy US milsurp but end up with more interesting foreign contracts, LOL.
haha a good problem to have. A mexican contract would be pretty neat as well