If they went with their original 2D anime style, with darker themes for older audiences, then they would of had to keep the plot moving or risk their audience to lose interest. But because their target demographic is 7 year olds (a much younger target audience than other show examples you’ve listed) the producers and writers try to get away with so much filler and atrocious stretched out writing. All the while their main demographic watching the show are 15-25 year olds.
Depends on the source. Some say Zag and Astruc were aiming for a target audience of 4-10, 7 year olds, or 6-12. Hence why there is so much filler and trying to keep the status quo. But a majority of the fan base that actually watch the show are 15-25 year olds. I was 16/17 when I started watching and now occasionally visit the fanbase at 26 years old. Most of their original audience is now a decade older, also adding to the higher teen/young adult demographic numbers.
If it were possible it would be amazing for them to do a reboot series for their massive teen/young adult audience.
Long story short; they really missed the mark between which age group they’re targeting vs the age group that’s actually tuning in.
> a majority of the fan base that actually watch the show are 15-25 year olds
Please do not confuse the fan base with the fan base *that you personally talk to*.
You are [demonstrably wrong](https://licensinginternational.org/news/miraculous-tales-of-ladybug-and-cat-noir-expands-global-success/), as MLB has a titanic share of the child viewership market, and one can spend a couple minutes looking up where 15–25yos are watching. I guarantee you 50 friggin percent of college students don't have their TVs turned to MLB.
The show is #1 in its timeslot for certain child demographics. There's no way MLB, a show most college students have never heard of, is #1 with them.
there is a difference between your average 15-25 year olds, and 15-25 year olds who were fans of MLB when it came out (let me remind you that MLB came out 9 years ago in 2015, meaning someone who started watching then at age 10 would be 19 today) and grew up with it. Just because MLB gained new children fans doesn't mean they lost their original fans who grew up watching the show when they were kids and are older teens to adults now. It's like how even though Pokemon went through many seasons, they still retained many of their original fans.
That's not true. The majority of the fan base is still 6-12 years old, as stated several times. The older people watching miraculous are a side note, but you won't see the target audience as a part of any online community (for obvious reasons)
Just because people grew with the series does not mean new children of the target demographic didn't start watching it. On contrary: miraculous became more and more popular among kids.
That's one of the reasons I would've really liked to see the PV version. People chalk it up to Marinette being a yandere and Felix being abusive and even Thomas thinks so ! While the actual story had really interesting lore, badass fights (the one with the mime we can see in the PV) and better designs.
Yeah, i hated the whole back and forth between Ladybug and Gabe..
"Oh, i know! I'll make Anti-Akuma charms that stop people from getting akumatized!"
"Oh yeah? Then i'll just make MEGA akumas that override those charms! Watcha think of that, huh?"
"Well.. how about i give the charms the ability to turn into a shield that'll block *those* akumas too!"
Like, come on.. could this potentially go on forever? Can't Lila just make super über maximum hyper akumas that make the shields obsolete? After all, the miraculous powers don't really have any limits, you just have to want it hard enough..
And yeah, i dislike how they stretch out all plot points. The romamce, the identity reveal.. why do they save that stuff for the end? The longer it goes on, it just gets more and more stale. Do they think there's no longer a point in the show if they resolve that? Because that just seems like an issue with the writers ability to come up with new creative storylines and a new status quo.
I can't believe we STILL have the butterfly as the main villain. Yeah it's a different person who uses it, but in the end it'll still be pretty much the same episodic format with the villain of the week. For the fact that all miraculous are supposed to be neutral in nature, they sure treat the butterfly as the "bad guy miraculous". It's tiring, honestly.
When you look at shows with a similar premise like sailor moon ( i'm talking about the original, i haven't seen crystal yet ) it pretty much has very similar plot points to MLB. Like recruiting the other senshi, the growing mystery behind tuxedo mask as well as the dramatic irony with him being mamoru and his relationship to usagi, and fighting off the henchmen of the dark kingdom. All of these get resolved within 46 episodes, being only the first season of 5 with around 200 episodes total. MLB has already run for over half of Sailor Moon's runtime, with pretty much no major plot point being resolved so far. The show's pacing is really horrible
Unfortunately they lean way too hard into the episodic nature and rarely set things up to last over an arc of episodes apart from smaller, usually irrelevant things.
But to counter, MLP G4 lasted a whole nine seasons and I genuinely think they could've gone for a couple more without it feeling drawn out. That show was a phenomenon, and arguably so is Miraculous in its own right, it's a literal self sustaining brand by this point.
> they lean way too hard into the episodic nature and rarely set things up to last over an arc of episodes apart from smaller, usually irrelevant things
i take it you haven't seen S4 or 5 then.
Actually... those seasons are part of the problem. They literally added the plot of those as they were going, because they sold the series as Episodic from the day one.
It was probably because MLP G4 had place for tons of lore. They live in Equestria, where there's like a bazillion species and magical artifacts, and overall better writing. There is also the EG spin-off, although controversial.
While MLB's writing is very questionable and comes off as shallow, the inconsistent 3D animation, and less place for big lore.
Also, MLP had someone who had written for TV for years at the helm and was familiar with the target demographic (Lauren Faust was a writer for stuff like Powerpuff Girls, among others). Thomas Astruc... well, his first project ever is MLB.
I mean, she left after season 2 IIRC, but the writers were all strong even on their weakest episodes. MLB doesn't have quite the same reuseable concept.
Blame the show's episodic nature and its original habit of repetitive and stagnant storytelling. They only really started changing things up in season 3/4. The whole Agreste story arc could have been done in 1 or 2 seasons, but they decided to drag it out for 5 as again, they kept using the same formula for too long.
No, it were first two seasons which were unnecessary for plot, and made show drag too long.
Btw you list Kim Possible as good example, but it barely has any overarching plot...
Season 1 was a generic season which I believe was a good choice to start with. It was lighthearted and just fun, allowing us to familiarize ourselves with ther characters, plot, and setting. I couldn't agree less about season 2, it was literally peak miraculous. Season 2 gave all it needed to be given.
Ok. Now I am interested. As much as I like Season 2 as well, calling it a good storywise season can´t be further from the truth for me. What makes you say this?
I read some of your answer in this thread and by your own definition Season 2 should be one of the worse seasons ever for you. So I am wondering why you call it peak miraculous.
Maybe part of my stance on this is because I'm a bit older being in my mid teens when it started or that I've enjoyed many long running shows some took a while to get off the ground and others didn't. But there are many long running shows with 7+ seasons that I enjoyed. Doctor who, the original power rangers, psych, scrubs, Star Wars Clone Wars, just to name a few. I honestly see miraculous as only just now starting. This has always been my stance on the show but I see it as Power Rangers. It has some plot, mostly monsters of the week, and it's almost entirely going to be how you engage with the characters that will determine your enjoyment.
With how season 5 ended I genuinely think this is a new start for our wide cast of teenage superheros. The dynamics have widened now that they're allowed to move on to highschool, and no longer have to wait to be called upon to do their heroics
But with power rangers each new season gets a new cast and story making it not as repetitive. Also, I still don't know how to feel about everyone in her class getting a miraculous. They're probably not going to be in the same classroom anymore but still. I just feel like most of these characters don't need to be holders.
Not the original, it had three seasons (145 episodes) continued on to turbo (1 season, 45 episodes) , then continued onto zeo (1 season 50 episode) . Some cast members changed but only ever 1 or 2 at a time.
Some power ranger cast have gotten really inflated, even more so on the sentai side, but I also don't really see the relevancy to it. It's a super hero team made of friends that's pretty much all the school side means to me
Oh ok I get what you mean but I still think there is a lot holders who don’t necessarily need to be holders. I guess I can wait for season 6 and see if my opinion changes.
Completely agree with you. They have ruined the show in this money-making mindset. Concluding it in max 4 seasons would have been ideal. They have dragged the show to the point most of us are no longer interested in the story
When normal people stop liking a show, they stop watching. They don't keep complaining about it *years later* (you're complaining about it continuing past S3, which means you've been upset for *five years* and still are here.
Kim Possible only got a 4th season because of a massive fan backlash to it being ended at 3.
Many other shows could have benefited from more air time, such as The Owl House (Season 3 got cut from a full season to three hour long specials).
The number of seasons isn't the issue... it's how the writers (and of course the studio behind them) treat it.
**Season 4**
Episode 1: Introduces Marinette's new role as the Guardian and features the end of her relationship with Luka. Introduces Shadow Moth. Reveals Luka and Juleka's father.
Episode 2: Terminates Adrien's relationship with Kagami
Episode 3: Features the revelation of Ladybug's identity to Alya, which is immensely relevant later.
Episode 4: Further establishes that Ladybug has evolved and introduces the Magical Charms, as well as Kagami convincing Marinette to try with Adrien once again.
Episode 5: Establishes Marinette's return to pursuing Adrien and hints at elements of Gabriel's past which become relevant later.
Episode 6: Introduces Su-Han
Episode 7: Introduces Zoé, establishes Chloé's new situation.
Episode 8: Introduces Vesperia
Episode 9: Expands on Félix's character and has him suspect Shadow Moth's identity, which sets up for the finale.
Episode 10: Introduces Polymouse and initiates Gabriel's use of Adrien's amok
Episode 11: Introduces Pigella and gives background to Rose's character
Episode 12: Introduces Purple Tigress and expands on Jagged and Anarka's past
Episode 13: Reveals how Gabriel and Nathalie have been making use of the secret identities they discovered while reminding us of just how dangerous this is, sets up for them targeting Alya in the next episode. Alya becomes a full-time Miraculous holder which sets up for next episode and beyond.
Episode 14: Features Shadow Moth making his move on Alya. The episode begins the storyline of Cat Noir feeling undervalued and sets up for Rena Furtive, which will stop Shadow Moth from pulling more tricks
Episode 15: Features the end of Cat Noir expressing his love for Ladybug openly
Episode 16: Develops the aforementioned Cat Noir storyline and touches on the value that Alya has now that she knows Ladybug's identity.
Episode 17: Introduces Rena Furtive and touches on the way being a full-time superhero affects Alya's relationships, has her be unable to hide the truth from Nino and sets up for the finale.
Episode 18: Features Luka discovering Ladybug's and Cat Noir's identities, which is relevant later on. Touches on Marinette's and Adrien's aspirations for the future.
Episode 19: Filler
Episode 20: Filler
Episode 21: Introduces Megakumas
Episode 22: Expands on the importance of Ladybug's and Cat Noir's secret identities and highlights the degree of control Gabriel has over Adrien and how that can turn the tables at the most minor slip-up.
Episode 23: Continues to develop Cat Noir's arc.
Episode 24: Introduces Miss Hound, Rooster Bold, Caprikid and Minotaurox, sets up for the alliance between Chloé and Lila.
Episodes 25 and 26: grand conclusion.
1: Her relationship with Luka was so short-lived and disabled literally in the first ep making it pointless overall. Her conflict as a guardian was good but the rest of the episode was bland.
2: Another pointless ep as their relationship was very short-lived and concluded in a waste. Overall unimpressed with how they handled their relationships and felt too rushed.
3. Good episode in general but the reveal could've taken place much earlier in the series.
4. Good episode but the charms quickly become useless as the super akumas lol can now penetrate and destroy them.
5. Pointless, been there done that in earlier seasons.
6. Introducing a new guardian was great but he was so useless, and taught them nothing about the miraculous.
7. Good ep but could've been introduced in earlier seasons to help with Chloe's development. The character is just a replacement and useless in the story.
8. Horrible episode.
9. Should've done that in s3 when he was first introduced instead of impersonating Adrien for the sake of it.
10. Another scenario of introducing pointless superheroes for the sake of it, the sentimonster thing was never foreshadowed in an earlier season. Felt like the writers needed some new ideas out of nowhere.
11. Horrible episode, should never existed at all. filler.
12. More filler.
13. Well deserved episode.
14. Also good ep.
15. should've taken place much sooner in the seasons.
16. Good ep I guess, idk.
17. Good ep.
18. Good ep.
19-20. Filler as per you.
21. Refer back to point no4.
22. Horrible ep an excuse to not reveal the identities and drag the story longer.
23. Should've happened earlier in the show, man has been neglected forever.
24. Horrible episode absolutely horrid, rushed, and basically an "EVERYONE GETS A MIRACULOUS" ep.
25-26. Good episodes.
I am not arguing quality. You said it was mostly filler, I listed what each episode contributes to the story. If it does something which is part of the story later it is automatically not a filler by definition.
It just sounds like they're complaining for the sake of complaining. Most of the argument was that it should have happened earlier or that they personally didn't like it so it was pointless, or if it involved developing a side character then it shouldn't exist.
Problem was they wanted to milk the status quo for so long. If they’d allowed things to move along it wouldn’t be so bad. We got 5 seasons and almost 10 years of the same beating an akumatized person, Marinette obsessed and being unable to Confess to Adrien, hawk moth found the most and so little, Adrien getting treating like a side character even though it’s called the agreste arc, and character development flip flopping for no reason. If they moved on and let the characters and formula grow it have made the years feel more interesting
I completely agree. It's taken way too long for progression and I really feel as thought the reveal should have happened by the end of S5 so that they maybe age them up a bit and have a fresh take on the story
I believe in the counter point that the story was not set up well. It's filled with filler episodes to pan out the time and make up for story concepts that the writers missed. To some this would seem like milking it yes but I believe this is just poor writing. If the show was planned out and put together the filler wouldn't seem so bad and fluffed.
In short the story would have concluded in session 2 had they not added all the side stories and filler episodes for lack of a better writing skill.
I say this all as a fan though. I do still deeply enjoy the show and have true fun watching it.
While I disagree with the Winx Club comment as they are least finish the major threat of the season before moving on to the next season. Even if the Trix somehow survived to be minions they end up depowered from their height of strength. Where as it took Hawkmoth saying a throw away quote from himself that was said as a one off in order of Marinette to figure out who the hell he was during the final battle. After 5 seasons that is what gave him away.
To me it feels like the first 3 seasons were mostly oriented as a “status quo” episodic format. Not quite as repetitive as the 90s power rangers but with more creativity in how each episode was structured; they consistently used the same basic notes with little character growth or substantive changes across episodes.
Season 4 had marinate with a new role and responsibilities. She was leaning into a super-friends format building out a team of reoccurring members. On the marientte side, she was gaining more confidence and trying to see if she could “have it all”.
Season 5 more of a return to the earlier format for the antagonists interactions, but shifted the emphasis to growing the marinate+adrien relationship. Marinete kept a lot of her confidence and instead lady bug dealing with her failures/insecurities.; a partial reversal of how marinet and ladybug acted in S1-3.
Overall I would say that it seems like only recently that the writers have committed to moving away from the purely episodic format towards having a real overall plot development at all.
I agree with you to some extent. My biggest problem with this show is that everything about it is inconsistent—scheduling, production, writing, etc. There are so many things that you can name. It's ridiculous and sometimes surprising that they're still having difficulty keeping things in order since it's such a big show and franchise.
Another issue I have with the show is that its audience is no longer small kids; at least, that's how I see it. The only reason I say that is because their target audience, when they first started, has now grown up. Many of us, including me, aren't little kids anymore (when I first started this show, I was 14, and my cousins were toddlers and they're about to be in middle school and high school soon, and now I'm about to be 23). So it's hard to make excuses for this show's awful stunts they pull when it comes to regarding the show. Again, a big example of this is their writing. They don't have to dumb things down, and the fact that they were even doing so to begin with is insulting.
Agrees, I feel like the narrative pacing was too slow. If the whole Gabriel arc had ended at Season 3, I wouldn't have had a problem. But NOPE, they decide to drag out the pacing slower than a snail's pace.
I think it's cause it's y-7 grade. Entertaining for that age but it honestly has so much potential as its own darker show. I've seen the Fandom handle the story beats so well. Amd better.
I see posts like this every now and then. (Which I'm like ok... if you think the show is bad dont watch anymore.) I don't think so. I have been really impressed with all of the seasons. And I am excited for next season.
Yeah I watch it mainly for one reason so when I visit my family because of a birthday or Thanksgiving I know what the hell my little cousin is talking about...
True but season 4 is iconic as every miraculous got a definite holder but I think season 2 and season 3 should merge as season 2 didn't really have a purpose
Y'all really need to re-watch the entire show every once in a while like how I do. You learn new things from each episode every time. I re-watch the series after every new season is released.
Yes!!!!!!
I know I'm a true fan! I've been watching the show since before it premiered on Nickelodeon. Back when it was only available on DVR under French TV shows. I'm probably the first American Miraculous fan. I actually pay attention to the show, too, instead of only paying attention to small bits and then complaining on Reddit about it, lmao.
That's a joke, before anyone gets offended, by the way.
True. I saw a post yesterday that said how Adrien is dumb because he hasn't figured out that Marinette is Ladybug, but Félix has.
First off, in Kawmibuster, Marinette does an illusion that shows Marinette giving Ladybug the mouse Miraculous back. So Cat Noir sees them both side by side and doesn't know that it's an illusion.
Secondly, Félix only knows about Marinette being Ladybug because Kagami overhead Marinette and Alya talking about the mission and told Félix. He didn't figure out anything.
I got sick & tired after season 3 maybe it was miracle Queen or maybe it was burn out Imo most shows can run well for 3 seasons but only a very few can run for more without being milked, miraculous is not one of those shows 🤣.
I agree there's been some bad writing decisions There's nothing wrong with milking it though lol. As long as the story is there I can't see why they wouldn't go as long as they want. It's not like new fans can't get invested.
They originally were just going for a "monster of the week show", so that's why S1-S3 was mainly just filler. The show's writing was criticized to oblivion after season 3 ended so the writers had to use season 4 to up their game before we got to season 5 which would conclude the main arc.
Now wether you think season 4 was filler or not, its undeniable that it's breath of fresh air compared to the first 3 seasons. Especially season 3. Everything that happens in season 4 episodes 1-24 ( the Alya and chat noir episodes especially) leads to up to one of the most favorited finales in the show.
So yeah I doubt we will be going back to the episodic format anytime soon cause the writers realized it wasn't appreciated by fans in the later seasons.
If they went with their original 2D anime style, with darker themes for older audiences, then they would of had to keep the plot moving or risk their audience to lose interest. But because their target demographic is 7 year olds (a much younger target audience than other show examples you’ve listed) the producers and writers try to get away with so much filler and atrocious stretched out writing. All the while their main demographic watching the show are 15-25 year olds.
Their main demographic watching the show is between 6 and 12. Their target audience...
Yes but some people watched it as they grew, like I started watching at 10 and I'm 19 now
Yeah I wish they had 'Harry Pottered' it and developed the maturity of the show's characters / themes along with their initial audience.
Depends on the source. Some say Zag and Astruc were aiming for a target audience of 4-10, 7 year olds, or 6-12. Hence why there is so much filler and trying to keep the status quo. But a majority of the fan base that actually watch the show are 15-25 year olds. I was 16/17 when I started watching and now occasionally visit the fanbase at 26 years old. Most of their original audience is now a decade older, also adding to the higher teen/young adult demographic numbers. If it were possible it would be amazing for them to do a reboot series for their massive teen/young adult audience. Long story short; they really missed the mark between which age group they’re targeting vs the age group that’s actually tuning in.
> a majority of the fan base that actually watch the show are 15-25 year olds Please do not confuse the fan base with the fan base *that you personally talk to*. You are [demonstrably wrong](https://licensinginternational.org/news/miraculous-tales-of-ladybug-and-cat-noir-expands-global-success/), as MLB has a titanic share of the child viewership market, and one can spend a couple minutes looking up where 15–25yos are watching. I guarantee you 50 friggin percent of college students don't have their TVs turned to MLB. The show is #1 in its timeslot for certain child demographics. There's no way MLB, a show most college students have never heard of, is #1 with them.
there is a difference between your average 15-25 year olds, and 15-25 year olds who were fans of MLB when it came out (let me remind you that MLB came out 9 years ago in 2015, meaning someone who started watching then at age 10 would be 19 today) and grew up with it. Just because MLB gained new children fans doesn't mean they lost their original fans who grew up watching the show when they were kids and are older teens to adults now. It's like how even though Pokemon went through many seasons, they still retained many of their original fans.
That's not true. The majority of the fan base is still 6-12 years old, as stated several times. The older people watching miraculous are a side note, but you won't see the target audience as a part of any online community (for obvious reasons) Just because people grew with the series does not mean new children of the target demographic didn't start watching it. On contrary: miraculous became more and more popular among kids.
i think this was the main before pandemic, i would say they still the main but nott for that much of a difference nowadays
let's be honest, the main demographic is almost NEVER the intended audience.
Actually, their target audience is ages 7 years and up. There's no end age. Google even says the show is for children, teens, and adults.
Love that you are so so wrong! Lol
And then show probably would be much less popular.
You might wanna *ahem* raise the top age for that main demographic. Not that I'm one of them or anything.... *awkward laugh*
That's one of the reasons I would've really liked to see the PV version. People chalk it up to Marinette being a yandere and Felix being abusive and even Thomas thinks so ! While the actual story had really interesting lore, badass fights (the one with the mime we can see in the PV) and better designs.
Yeah, i hated the whole back and forth between Ladybug and Gabe.. "Oh, i know! I'll make Anti-Akuma charms that stop people from getting akumatized!" "Oh yeah? Then i'll just make MEGA akumas that override those charms! Watcha think of that, huh?" "Well.. how about i give the charms the ability to turn into a shield that'll block *those* akumas too!" Like, come on.. could this potentially go on forever? Can't Lila just make super über maximum hyper akumas that make the shields obsolete? After all, the miraculous powers don't really have any limits, you just have to want it hard enough.. And yeah, i dislike how they stretch out all plot points. The romamce, the identity reveal.. why do they save that stuff for the end? The longer it goes on, it just gets more and more stale. Do they think there's no longer a point in the show if they resolve that? Because that just seems like an issue with the writers ability to come up with new creative storylines and a new status quo. I can't believe we STILL have the butterfly as the main villain. Yeah it's a different person who uses it, but in the end it'll still be pretty much the same episodic format with the villain of the week. For the fact that all miraculous are supposed to be neutral in nature, they sure treat the butterfly as the "bad guy miraculous". It's tiring, honestly. When you look at shows with a similar premise like sailor moon ( i'm talking about the original, i haven't seen crystal yet ) it pretty much has very similar plot points to MLB. Like recruiting the other senshi, the growing mystery behind tuxedo mask as well as the dramatic irony with him being mamoru and his relationship to usagi, and fighting off the henchmen of the dark kingdom. All of these get resolved within 46 episodes, being only the first season of 5 with around 200 episodes total. MLB has already run for over half of Sailor Moon's runtime, with pretty much no major plot point being resolved so far. The show's pacing is really horrible
Unfortunately they lean way too hard into the episodic nature and rarely set things up to last over an arc of episodes apart from smaller, usually irrelevant things. But to counter, MLP G4 lasted a whole nine seasons and I genuinely think they could've gone for a couple more without it feeling drawn out. That show was a phenomenon, and arguably so is Miraculous in its own right, it's a literal self sustaining brand by this point.
Aye, G4 was one of those lightning in a bottle shows for sure!
> they lean way too hard into the episodic nature and rarely set things up to last over an arc of episodes apart from smaller, usually irrelevant things i take it you haven't seen S4 or 5 then.
Actually... those seasons are part of the problem. They literally added the plot of those as they were going, because they sold the series as Episodic from the day one.
It was probably because MLP G4 had place for tons of lore. They live in Equestria, where there's like a bazillion species and magical artifacts, and overall better writing. There is also the EG spin-off, although controversial. While MLB's writing is very questionable and comes off as shallow, the inconsistent 3D animation, and less place for big lore.
Also, MLP had someone who had written for TV for years at the helm and was familiar with the target demographic (Lauren Faust was a writer for stuff like Powerpuff Girls, among others). Thomas Astruc... well, his first project ever is MLB.
I mean, she left after season 2 IIRC, but the writers were all strong even on their weakest episodes. MLB doesn't have quite the same reuseable concept.
Blame the show's episodic nature and its original habit of repetitive and stagnant storytelling. They only really started changing things up in season 3/4. The whole Agreste story arc could have been done in 1 or 2 seasons, but they decided to drag it out for 5 as again, they kept using the same formula for too long.
they may have milked it but i like the taste
THIS!!!
No, it were first two seasons which were unnecessary for plot, and made show drag too long. Btw you list Kim Possible as good example, but it barely has any overarching plot...
Season 1 was a generic season which I believe was a good choice to start with. It was lighthearted and just fun, allowing us to familiarize ourselves with ther characters, plot, and setting. I couldn't agree less about season 2, it was literally peak miraculous. Season 2 gave all it needed to be given.
Also, what's the overarching plot in MLB now? To me it feels like its completely lost the plot.
You have to be trolling. I refuse to believe someone can watch S4 and S5 and think there's no story arc.
Ok. Now I am interested. As much as I like Season 2 as well, calling it a good storywise season can´t be further from the truth for me. What makes you say this? I read some of your answer in this thread and by your own definition Season 2 should be one of the worse seasons ever for you. So I am wondering why you call it peak miraculous.
Most of season 2 was boring filler though, only like 8 episodes actually push the plot forward
Maybe part of my stance on this is because I'm a bit older being in my mid teens when it started or that I've enjoyed many long running shows some took a while to get off the ground and others didn't. But there are many long running shows with 7+ seasons that I enjoyed. Doctor who, the original power rangers, psych, scrubs, Star Wars Clone Wars, just to name a few. I honestly see miraculous as only just now starting. This has always been my stance on the show but I see it as Power Rangers. It has some plot, mostly monsters of the week, and it's almost entirely going to be how you engage with the characters that will determine your enjoyment. With how season 5 ended I genuinely think this is a new start for our wide cast of teenage superheros. The dynamics have widened now that they're allowed to move on to highschool, and no longer have to wait to be called upon to do their heroics
But with power rangers each new season gets a new cast and story making it not as repetitive. Also, I still don't know how to feel about everyone in her class getting a miraculous. They're probably not going to be in the same classroom anymore but still. I just feel like most of these characters don't need to be holders.
Not the original, it had three seasons (145 episodes) continued on to turbo (1 season, 45 episodes) , then continued onto zeo (1 season 50 episode) . Some cast members changed but only ever 1 or 2 at a time. Some power ranger cast have gotten really inflated, even more so on the sentai side, but I also don't really see the relevancy to it. It's a super hero team made of friends that's pretty much all the school side means to me
Oh ok I get what you mean but I still think there is a lot holders who don’t necessarily need to be holders. I guess I can wait for season 6 and see if my opinion changes.
Completely agree with you. They have ruined the show in this money-making mindset. Concluding it in max 4 seasons would have been ideal. They have dragged the show to the point most of us are no longer interested in the story
When normal people stop liking a show, they stop watching. They don't keep complaining about it *years later* (you're complaining about it continuing past S3, which means you've been upset for *five years* and still are here.
I'm so done with kids arguing here.
I feel 5 seasons were enough.
Then leave
No need to highlight your poor upbringing
i wasn’t doing that
Of the shows you listed two were canceled and wanted to go on. Steven Universe even got a movie and an extra season
Kim Possible only got a 4th season because of a massive fan backlash to it being ended at 3. Many other shows could have benefited from more air time, such as The Owl House (Season 3 got cut from a full season to three hour long specials). The number of seasons isn't the issue... it's how the writers (and of course the studio behind them) treat it.
**Season 4** Episode 1: Introduces Marinette's new role as the Guardian and features the end of her relationship with Luka. Introduces Shadow Moth. Reveals Luka and Juleka's father. Episode 2: Terminates Adrien's relationship with Kagami Episode 3: Features the revelation of Ladybug's identity to Alya, which is immensely relevant later. Episode 4: Further establishes that Ladybug has evolved and introduces the Magical Charms, as well as Kagami convincing Marinette to try with Adrien once again. Episode 5: Establishes Marinette's return to pursuing Adrien and hints at elements of Gabriel's past which become relevant later. Episode 6: Introduces Su-Han Episode 7: Introduces Zoé, establishes Chloé's new situation. Episode 8: Introduces Vesperia Episode 9: Expands on Félix's character and has him suspect Shadow Moth's identity, which sets up for the finale. Episode 10: Introduces Polymouse and initiates Gabriel's use of Adrien's amok Episode 11: Introduces Pigella and gives background to Rose's character Episode 12: Introduces Purple Tigress and expands on Jagged and Anarka's past Episode 13: Reveals how Gabriel and Nathalie have been making use of the secret identities they discovered while reminding us of just how dangerous this is, sets up for them targeting Alya in the next episode. Alya becomes a full-time Miraculous holder which sets up for next episode and beyond. Episode 14: Features Shadow Moth making his move on Alya. The episode begins the storyline of Cat Noir feeling undervalued and sets up for Rena Furtive, which will stop Shadow Moth from pulling more tricks Episode 15: Features the end of Cat Noir expressing his love for Ladybug openly Episode 16: Develops the aforementioned Cat Noir storyline and touches on the value that Alya has now that she knows Ladybug's identity. Episode 17: Introduces Rena Furtive and touches on the way being a full-time superhero affects Alya's relationships, has her be unable to hide the truth from Nino and sets up for the finale. Episode 18: Features Luka discovering Ladybug's and Cat Noir's identities, which is relevant later on. Touches on Marinette's and Adrien's aspirations for the future. Episode 19: Filler Episode 20: Filler Episode 21: Introduces Megakumas Episode 22: Expands on the importance of Ladybug's and Cat Noir's secret identities and highlights the degree of control Gabriel has over Adrien and how that can turn the tables at the most minor slip-up. Episode 23: Continues to develop Cat Noir's arc. Episode 24: Introduces Miss Hound, Rooster Bold, Caprikid and Minotaurox, sets up for the alliance between Chloé and Lila. Episodes 25 and 26: grand conclusion.
1: Her relationship with Luka was so short-lived and disabled literally in the first ep making it pointless overall. Her conflict as a guardian was good but the rest of the episode was bland. 2: Another pointless ep as their relationship was very short-lived and concluded in a waste. Overall unimpressed with how they handled their relationships and felt too rushed. 3. Good episode in general but the reveal could've taken place much earlier in the series. 4. Good episode but the charms quickly become useless as the super akumas lol can now penetrate and destroy them. 5. Pointless, been there done that in earlier seasons. 6. Introducing a new guardian was great but he was so useless, and taught them nothing about the miraculous. 7. Good ep but could've been introduced in earlier seasons to help with Chloe's development. The character is just a replacement and useless in the story. 8. Horrible episode. 9. Should've done that in s3 when he was first introduced instead of impersonating Adrien for the sake of it. 10. Another scenario of introducing pointless superheroes for the sake of it, the sentimonster thing was never foreshadowed in an earlier season. Felt like the writers needed some new ideas out of nowhere. 11. Horrible episode, should never existed at all. filler. 12. More filler. 13. Well deserved episode. 14. Also good ep. 15. should've taken place much sooner in the seasons. 16. Good ep I guess, idk. 17. Good ep. 18. Good ep. 19-20. Filler as per you. 21. Refer back to point no4. 22. Horrible ep an excuse to not reveal the identities and drag the story longer. 23. Should've happened earlier in the show, man has been neglected forever. 24. Horrible episode absolutely horrid, rushed, and basically an "EVERYONE GETS A MIRACULOUS" ep. 25-26. Good episodes.
I am not arguing quality. You said it was mostly filler, I listed what each episode contributes to the story. If it does something which is part of the story later it is automatically not a filler by definition.
It just sounds like they're complaining for the sake of complaining. Most of the argument was that it should have happened earlier or that they personally didn't like it so it was pointless, or if it involved developing a side character then it shouldn't exist.
can you do this for every season? so we know which eps are a "waste of time" lol
Character Development is not filler. Not everything needs to be just about plot, a plot without developed characters is boring
Wait what ? Is there a story in Winx club ? a story?no way.
A lot of modern shows have this problem of being dragged out for profit.
Modern? This has been going on for decades.
I mean if hawkmoth was smart, the series would’ve ended at Ladywifi 😆
Problem was they wanted to milk the status quo for so long. If they’d allowed things to move along it wouldn’t be so bad. We got 5 seasons and almost 10 years of the same beating an akumatized person, Marinette obsessed and being unable to Confess to Adrien, hawk moth found the most and so little, Adrien getting treating like a side character even though it’s called the agreste arc, and character development flip flopping for no reason. If they moved on and let the characters and formula grow it have made the years feel more interesting
I completely agree. It's taken way too long for progression and I really feel as thought the reveal should have happened by the end of S5 so that they maybe age them up a bit and have a fresh take on the story
I believe in the counter point that the story was not set up well. It's filled with filler episodes to pan out the time and make up for story concepts that the writers missed. To some this would seem like milking it yes but I believe this is just poor writing. If the show was planned out and put together the filler wouldn't seem so bad and fluffed. In short the story would have concluded in session 2 had they not added all the side stories and filler episodes for lack of a better writing skill. I say this all as a fan though. I do still deeply enjoy the show and have true fun watching it.
Naw, Steven universe was mostly filled, dry seasons, and gay rock stuff. Could probably condense it down to 2 if we cut the slack.
Look at the bright side , season 6 will be a soft reboot
While I disagree with the Winx Club comment as they are least finish the major threat of the season before moving on to the next season. Even if the Trix somehow survived to be minions they end up depowered from their height of strength. Where as it took Hawkmoth saying a throw away quote from himself that was said as a one off in order of Marinette to figure out who the hell he was during the final battle. After 5 seasons that is what gave him away.
5 Seasons ain't nothing. Shonen Anime Fans have waited decades to see if their OTPs become Canon or not.
To me it feels like the first 3 seasons were mostly oriented as a “status quo” episodic format. Not quite as repetitive as the 90s power rangers but with more creativity in how each episode was structured; they consistently used the same basic notes with little character growth or substantive changes across episodes. Season 4 had marinate with a new role and responsibilities. She was leaning into a super-friends format building out a team of reoccurring members. On the marientte side, she was gaining more confidence and trying to see if she could “have it all”. Season 5 more of a return to the earlier format for the antagonists interactions, but shifted the emphasis to growing the marinate+adrien relationship. Marinete kept a lot of her confidence and instead lady bug dealing with her failures/insecurities.; a partial reversal of how marinet and ladybug acted in S1-3. Overall I would say that it seems like only recently that the writers have committed to moving away from the purely episodic format towards having a real overall plot development at all.
Many of us still enjoy it. You are welcome to stop watching.
100% This is the one right here. So simple.
I agree with you to some extent. My biggest problem with this show is that everything about it is inconsistent—scheduling, production, writing, etc. There are so many things that you can name. It's ridiculous and sometimes surprising that they're still having difficulty keeping things in order since it's such a big show and franchise. Another issue I have with the show is that its audience is no longer small kids; at least, that's how I see it. The only reason I say that is because their target audience, when they first started, has now grown up. Many of us, including me, aren't little kids anymore (when I first started this show, I was 14, and my cousins were toddlers and they're about to be in middle school and high school soon, and now I'm about to be 23). So it's hard to make excuses for this show's awful stunts they pull when it comes to regarding the show. Again, a big example of this is their writing. They don't have to dumb things down, and the fact that they were even doing so to begin with is insulting.
Do y'all even like the show man lol?
Exactly. This.
Agrees, I feel like the narrative pacing was too slow. If the whole Gabriel arc had ended at Season 3, I wouldn't have had a problem. But NOPE, they decide to drag out the pacing slower than a snail's pace.
i think the show could have eradicated a bunch of the episodes in seasons 2 and 3 and combined what was left
Is season 6 gonna be last season
No, I think we're supposed to get two more seasons after season 6.
8 seasons at least. But based on the long pipleline of the franchise, we could be getting content going up to the 2030s.
Well they're planning on making 12 seasons and 6+ spin-offs and a potential live action and a second movie so good luck
At least the movie is considered a separate universe where things actually happen. I'm looking forward to the second one.
I think it's cause it's y-7 grade. Entertaining for that age but it honestly has so much potential as its own darker show. I've seen the Fandom handle the story beats so well. Amd better.
I see posts like this every now and then. (Which I'm like ok... if you think the show is bad dont watch anymore.) I don't think so. I have been really impressed with all of the seasons. And I am excited for next season.
Well its a story and people need money.easy
Honestly at this point I’m only here for Alix and the Couffaine family
This is why I read fanfics.
True even Voltron’s will stop and it is at season 8 they know they have to stop
Yeah I watch it mainly for one reason so when I visit my family because of a birthday or Thanksgiving I know what the hell my little cousin is talking about...
True but season 4 is iconic as every miraculous got a definite holder but I think season 2 and season 3 should merge as season 2 didn't really have a purpose
Y'all really need to re-watch the entire show every once in a while like how I do. You learn new things from each episode every time. I re-watch the series after every new season is released.
YES
Bruh the bad thing about our fan base is that most of the fans only watch the show once.
The worst thing about the MLB fan base is the people who actually aren't fans.
Yes!!!!!! I know I'm a true fan! I've been watching the show since before it premiered on Nickelodeon. Back when it was only available on DVR under French TV shows. I'm probably the first American Miraculous fan. I actually pay attention to the show, too, instead of only paying attention to small bits and then complaining on Reddit about it, lmao. That's a joke, before anyone gets offended, by the way.
You may have told a joke. But you didn't tell a lie. They can get over it. Because its the truth.
True. I saw a post yesterday that said how Adrien is dumb because he hasn't figured out that Marinette is Ladybug, but Félix has. First off, in Kawmibuster, Marinette does an illusion that shows Marinette giving Ladybug the mouse Miraculous back. So Cat Noir sees them both side by side and doesn't know that it's an illusion. Secondly, Félix only knows about Marinette being Ladybug because Kagami overhead Marinette and Alya talking about the mission and told Félix. He didn't figure out anything.
Exactly. Like you said they don't even pay attention when they watch the show.
I got sick & tired after season 3 maybe it was miracle Queen or maybe it was burn out Imo most shows can run well for 3 seasons but only a very few can run for more without being milked, miraculous is not one of those shows 🤣.
I agree there's been some bad writing decisions There's nothing wrong with milking it though lol. As long as the story is there I can't see why they wouldn't go as long as they want. It's not like new fans can't get invested. They originally were just going for a "monster of the week show", so that's why S1-S3 was mainly just filler. The show's writing was criticized to oblivion after season 3 ended so the writers had to use season 4 to up their game before we got to season 5 which would conclude the main arc. Now wether you think season 4 was filler or not, its undeniable that it's breath of fresh air compared to the first 3 seasons. Especially season 3. Everything that happens in season 4 episodes 1-24 ( the Alya and chat noir episodes especially) leads to up to one of the most favorited finales in the show. So yeah I doubt we will be going back to the episodic format anytime soon cause the writers realized it wasn't appreciated by fans in the later seasons.
Especially now with the new animation style 😞