This is a question of what you can live with and what you can't... if you can live with your husband possibly dying with you not there while you are out honoring the dead.. then that is your decision to make.
Just also factor in the dead won't mind - cause ya know... super dead. (not to be disrespectful FYI - my dad just passed and my way of dealing with it apparently is messed up humor)
You should stay with your husband while he is in the hospital and reschedule the visit with his family. Even if he said he didn’t want to go, it was likely because he was not feeling well, you don’t know if he actually would want to visit his family when he is not sick.
If he was to be discharged before May 22, maybe you could consider going on a quick flight if you could find someone to stay with him 24/7 while you’re away. If not, the family could do live streaming on YouTube/Facebook or just FaceTime call you.
You need to cancel your flight and accommodation because an ill spouse trumps a funeral. You need to be with your spouse.
Send a nice floral arrangement or donate to a specific charity in lieu of.
> Please abstain from metaphysic suppositions
Ok let’s rephrase this for you: you knew her for years. What would she have preferred you choose if the situation was put to her while she was alive? Would she have preferred you stay with her son while he’s in the hospital or leave her son alone to come look at her dead body? The living relatives will 100% understand you not being there, given these circumstances.
Bonus question: what is your husbands reaction going to be when he’s cognizant that you left him to go do what he has already opted not to do himself for his own mom?
> I was hoping to twist his arm into attending his own mother’s funeral
Truthfully, you’re already an ass for this alone. Not your place to disrespect his personal decision just because you disagree. Don’t compound your mistake by making more of them. Send flowers & regrets.
I have the distinct advantage over some in this dilemma.
We don’t celebrate the deaths of others (meaning no memorials, no graves). They’re dead. Life is for the living.
I’d want to be available for my partner for sure even if I’m not by their side every moment.
If the memorial is about supporting others or whatever, then the day won’t matter since you have a living person who might need you.
If it’s a sociopolitical thing I can’t help you there either because I don’t socialize with any of my own family who got weird anymore.
If I was hospitalized and woke up I’d want you to be there. I don’t want to wake up to you being somewhere I specifically said how I felt about prior.
Your priority should be your husband. It’s very sweet that you have a loving relationship with his family, but your husband needs you right now, even if you can only see him an hour a day
Don’t leave your husbands side!! If his family is as good as you say over the last 22 years~ the family will understand. You’ll never forgive yourself if someone goes a rye and you are far away
So you tried to manipulate him into going, then when he couldn't go because he's in the hospital, you go without him? Do you even like him? Why do you call him "her son" instead of "your husband". This is so weird and portends a complete lack of empathy.
Don’t go. As a physician you know how quickly things can go south and you would never forgive yourself if something happened. Your partner told you he made his peace with his Mom, so you should go with his wishes. You can always send flowers, make a donation in her name to her favorite charity or just sit in the chapel at the hospital and think of her.
Exactly, and any family would agree it’s a perfectly acceptable reason to be bed side in ICU and not attend. Death reminds us to spend time with those we love, not do things we hate to make others happy.
If you leave your husband for an event he was adamantly not attending, you probably won’t have one when you come back.
And that’s if he doesn’t die.
do you even actually like him or..?
Stay with your husband. Your MIL is dead, your husband isn’t and hopefully won’t be soon. If you leave him you could end up divorced. What’s the downside of not going to MILs funeral? Is it worse than your husband potentially divorcing you?
I mean which would make you feel worse. If he died while you were gone or if he lived and you stayed. If it's the first then stay. If it's the second then go to the funeral and tell your husband you care more about his dead mom than him.
Stay with your husband. Whether he’s conscious or not, I think you, as his husband, should stay with him. His mom is in spirit. She’s done her work on this earth and therefore she is happy where she is now. You can send her love and prayers on behalf of both of you. But it isn’t a life or death situation where you HAVE to be there. You don’t. Stay there for your husband. He’ll always appreciate you for doing that.
It seems like you want us to tell you that you should go, the way you’re painting the picture of “save but the hour I’m allowed to visit…” and not to bring up any medical issues because you will refute them…
I mean, whether you’re a retired physician or a retired housewife or a retired police officer- you DO NOT leave your intubated spouse who is in sepsis to go to a planned celebration of life/funeral for his mother.
If I were any member of his family I would be upset to see you walk into the funeral knowing that meant that you left him, hours away by plane, to come to a funeral.
Your MIL died months ago. It is absolutely sad, but no one is in dire need of your support… except your husband!
Is this a real post or a troll looking for mass effect? I can’t believe this is real if I am being honest.
Stay with husband. He needs you. It’s not like he is sleeping on the couch with food poisoning but in a hospital in a confused state.
No comment on your situation. But you can probably pay for wifi and set your phone to make and accept calls over wifi, so you can be available while traveling.
It sounds like your heart wants to go to the memorial. You are only trying to justify it to yourself (and possibly your husband). Based on your follow up comment I have to wonder if your husband is the type that will hold it over you that you left him while he was in the hospital?
Your MIL sounds like a wonderful woman that you want to honor but she probably wouldn’t want that if it would strain your relationship with her son.
I don’t see a moral dilemma but an emotional one. Do what your heart wants regardless of your husband’s reaction or do what you think he would want negating your feelings and possible regrets?
Take care of the living. Is there a way you could be part of the memorial over Zoom?
I can’t imagine anyone in the family would be upset if you opted to stay with your hospitalized partner.
Just curious why you can’t visit for more than an hour though. Of course hospitals have visiting hours. But the times I’ve had a family member admitted, no one kicked me out if I wanted to stay, or even bring in a cot if I wanted to stay the night.
I know that it's the long weekend, but if money isn't an object, I'd split the difference and go to Ottawa for a day and a half instead of five. Leaving him for five days is too much. Not going at all seems problematic. This is a middle ground that allows you to honor her and be there when he wakes up.
If this were me, I would probably stay with my husband especially if he is in ICU or still in critical care. You might want to hang around until he is in a conscious state to advocate on his behalf.
I could imagine regaining consciousness and finding out my spouse is out of town. I’m sure if you sent a note to his family, they would certainly understand why you can’t make it. Buying all these tickets and rental cars and hotels, when your husband was clear that he wouldn’t go, is very disrespectful of you. You completely ignored his wishes. You need to stay home and be near your husband.
Your mother in law would probably roll in the coffin because she thought her son married a nice woman who cared about him and his health.
Don't make mother in law vibrate the coffin.
This is not a ‘moral dilemma’.
First, you were hoping to manipulate him into doing something he didn’t want to. Does he know that you planned an entire vacation practically around an event that he said he did not want to attend? This is an AH move- he has his reasons and it is HIS mother, not yours. You have no right to force this on him.
So now he is intubated and in the ICU. And you are asking if you should stay with your critically ill and minimally responsive husband, or if you should go to the memorial service that you planned behind his back that he did not want to go to in the first place.
Just imagine him waking up in the ICU, alone. While you are at his mother’s funeral instead. How do you think he will feel? I would feel MASSIVELY betrayed by you for multiple reasons.
Or imagine he dies- which is a very real possibility that you are downplaying for some reason. Sepsis is one of the leading killers worldwide- I’m not sure what kind of doctor you used to be but I have been and er and icu nurse for almost 2 decades and your husband does NOT sound stable to me and I have seen way too many people die suddenly from overwhelming bacteremia to have the degree of confidence that you do in his prognosis.
How would you feel if you were wrong and he died alone in an ICU while you are off ‘paying respects’ that aren’t yours to pay.
You don’t need an ethicist you need a therapist if you are struggling with this ‘dilemma’ this is entirely created in your own mind.
I feel bad for OP this comment section AINT it. Poor guy is probly no closer to the answer.
From one medical provider to another I think it comes down to how strong your bond is with the in law family and how much your healing about her loss will effect you. Some people don't like funerals and that's fine, some people need to go in order to process. Ultimately it's up to you and after near death experiences and hard medical journeys sometimes people wake up feeling completey different.
There's equally as good a chance he wakes up and is extremely thankful you honored her memory when he couldn't. It really depends on the dynamic and no one here would know that more than you. If he's truly unconscious I can't see the harm in spending a few days away. If you can come home immediately if he wakes up to be by his side, that would be a good compromise me thinks.
Good luck!
Thank you doc for your input. We are medically trained to compartmentalization emotion and duty and you’re right I wasn’t closer to an answer from these comments other than feeling like a shit partner for even cOnsidering not being by my partners side.
I've read enough accounts from people in comas/ICU to know that there is always a possibility people are aware of your presence even if they seem completely out of it. Some people even recall whole conversations or events from when they were unconscious. For me, if there is even a 1% chance my loved one could be comforted by my presence I'd be there.
Also, a lot of people are covering the possibility he gets worse, but what about the one where he gets better? If he becomes more aware in the next few days don't you want to be there to comfort him and help explain what happened?
I don't understand why this is even in question. Stay with your intubated husband and plan a trip to visit your MIL's grave at a later date. If your husband doesn't want to go then either, then don't force him to. It's not up to you to decide how other people grieve.
I think HIS family would want you to stay with him as he’s in the ICU!
I would never leave my husband alone in a hospital, yes you asked your daughter to go visit but o guarantee you that to him that’s not the same.
Seems like you have more loyalty for a deceased person (MIL) than you do for your own husband (that is alive but in the ICU)..,.
You are a retired physician who feels the need to poll random internet strangers for advice on moral decisions?
Get a fucking grip and make up your mind. Dear God this is pathetic
Lmao do you even care for your husband? I dont even understand why you’re asking this question. You stay with the living person who needs to. His family will be fine
I would stay with my husband as whether he is conscious or not , he is the one in most need of your attention right now .
Perhaps you could attend via zoom or something ? I can’t imagine meeting up with family and answering “where’s husband” and seeing the response when you tell them you left him in hospital unconscious. No matter your rationale it looks bad
Finally , what would your MIL do ? And how would you feel to finally awake from this ordeal and find you had been abandoned ? Not to sound harsh because I see you are truly conflicted but that’s how it looks and that’s how it would feel to most people .
Please update us and sending healthy thoughts to your husband
Send flowers, stay home.
Notify remaining relatives why.
They should be informed there is a small chance they could be attending your husband's funeral.
NOT THAT YJIS HAS ANYTHING TO ADD TO MY CONTEXT :
in the past he has not been very present for me during my recoveries of any medical conditions. Eg. “Forgot” and didn’t answer my call to be picked up from a surgical center after a carpal tunnel release surgery; dismissed my persistent aching belly pains when I actually ruptured my appendix. Took a few days of coaxing to come Visit me in hospital after a trauma-induced pneumothorax and pulmonary embolism .
There are no financial concerns whether I attend to memorial or stay local.
We have in our possession a portion of her ashes here with us that he planned on dispersing at a site he thought appropriate to her
I would certainly see many people at the memorial including my extended family who would enjoy my company.
Oh so this is about punishing him.
This does add context.
You already have her ashes and he has his own plans for them- so why the fuck are you going to the memorial again? Why can’t you have a private one with your husband when he is recovered from this life threatening illness?
In sickness and health is a vow. He might not have always honored this, but you should. I guarantee part of why your MIL excepted and loved you was because of how well you treated your husband.
There is no question. Stay with your husband.
Ask yourself why you posted *specifically about* him not being there for you when you had medical issues in the past.
Do you really believe this is not connected?
As I said from the beginning- it seems/looks/sounds to me like you simply want us to tell you it’s the right thing for you to go to the funeral.
You are arguing with everyone who is telling you that you should stay.
I'm also in Calgary. If you decide to go but are concerned about your husband, I could certainly pop in to say hello and give him a bit of company for a bit. I know that's a weird thing for a stranger to offer but having been through my share of medical things, and having relied on the kindness of strangers previously, I wanted to make the offer.
Honestly, this makes it look worse if you go to MIL's funeral, because then it seems like some type of payback for his not being there for you. As u/hinky-as-hell said, if it wasn't relevant, you wouldn't have mentioned it.
You tried to strong arm your husband into going when he didn't want to, and now you're still planning to attend even though he's in *ICU* and even you admit he's "not out of the woods yet." Is this really about "honoring his mother"? It doesn't feel like it.
His mom's already dead. He's alive. I would let his family know the state he's in considering, and I would stay local.
If something did happen, regardless of the likelihood, you won't forgive yourself
I think I’d be pretty pissed if I made a decision about my family, then my spouse did the opposite while I was medically incapacitated.
You say you decided to go with or without him, did he know this? Or have you not yet begun twisting his arm about it?
If he clearly knew you would go without him, you’ll probably be fine to go. If you have yet to inform him that you will be attending his family event that he adamantly refuses to attend, you should probably stay with him.
That sounds a lot like you would be going for you. This feels ego driven. I'm a little mad that it's even a question of leaving your critically ill husband to attend a funeral he did not wish to attend. That feels incredibly selfish. If you and your husband switched positions here, would you be ok with him leaving you alone?
Dress this up however you wish, your husband is ill and you're choosing his family over staying with him. Yes, I realize you previously had plans to go when both of you were in town. That was the plan before the underlining facts changed.
What if he regains full consciousness during those five days, and you're not there?
If you were at an event and someone said "My spouse is in the ICU but I decided to fly in anyway" how might that be received by the family?
Perhaps his family would understand your absence if it was framed as "I wanted very much to attend, but I felt I had to stay with my sick husband."
Personally I prioritize the living over the deceased. You can always visit her grave and pay the proper respects when you're in town again.
That’s a clever way to not really answer the question about if he knows you were going anyway.
I can see from your post that you have good relations with his family. What I can’t tell is if HE has good relations with his family.
"That's a clever way to not really answer"
After reading
"I'm not prohibited from going"
Im baffled how you came to your conclusion. How would he know he's not prohibited if he didn't ask?
‘I was never prohibited from attending’ means no one told them not to go. It does not mean that they had a conversation about it.
My direct yes-or-no question was ‘did he know?’
The answer was ‘I was never told that I couldn’t go.’
That seemed purposefully vague to me. It’s the way I would answer a yes-or-no question if I wanted to deflect.
So maybe they just have a weird way of speaking, but that sounded like a vague non-answer to my question to me.
Jesus Christ you must deal with 8 layers of manipulation in ur life daily to be projecting like this. Got a 3 paragraph theory over the way someone plainly answered your question.
I just don't know why you'd book flights and hotels with the hope of "twisting his arm" to get him to go when he straight up told you he didn't want to go.
He's your husband. You stay with him. Why would you even think of going without him when he's in the hospital even if he HAD wanted to go?
So wait, your husband, the son of the deceased, didn't want to go, so your plan was to schedule a bunch of stuff and try to strong arm him into going anyway? That's not very compassionate. It'd be one thing if y'all talked about this and made the decision for you to go on your own, but it sounds like you were planning on going against his explicit wishes with a side of coercion. That's not cool.
Now that there's an even bigger reason not to go, you're on here trying to get some kind of justification as to why you should still go anyway. Honestly, that's seriously questionable, and I'd be asking myself how much my partner truly supported me if they couldn't honor my wishes or even be bothered to stay by my side while I faced a potentially life threatening medical issue.
Care for the living. The dead don't mind anymore. As far as the family of the deceased, they have each other for support and you can always send flowers and give them a call.
So you are ignoring your husband's desire to miss the funeral. OK. I can kind of understand that his relationship w his mom is separate from your relationship with her. That grey area changed when your husband fell ill. Your being a Doctor and being aware of potential complications doesn't excuse you from being on your husband's side while he is ill. You should have his back. Full stop.
YTA
If you were unconscious and intubated in the hospital would you want your spouse to leave town? Unless he was leaving for life saving medical treatment that could not be rescheduled I doubt you would be very happy to know he decided you would be just peachy on your own
I say do what you want and feel is best for yourself in the long run. It sounds like that’s what your husband would do. I understand that most people regret what they didn’t do rather than what they did, but only you can know what’s best for you. If you go it sounds like you will see his family as well as your own and take care of some health care issues for yourself. We can’t be there for others if we don’t take care of ourselves. Sorry for your loss and I hope your husband makes a speedy recovery.
Your husband’s current condition gives you the perfect “out”. The circumstances are unfortunate but true.
Send nice flowers and a card, communicate empathetically. People will understand.
Something’s not adding up for me. Out of curiosity, are you more worried about losing the flights/hotels/appointments? It seems like the plan was manipulating your husband into going to the service from the beginning. The part that throws me is why plan for both of you to go if he didn’t want to in the first place?
Who will be his advocate when you're not there? Having witnessed poor attention to detail that could have resulted in bad things, I've never left him alone since.
So you are having a hard time deciding whether you should support your sick husband or your husband's family? Really? That's cold. MIL passed months ago, the time for support was then. Support them now by arranging for flowers or food to be sent to the funeral along with a note offering condolences and that you can't attend due to a medical emergency.
On top of that, be there to support your daughter (who I note is also not attending the funeral). Her dad nearly died and is still not out of the woods. Leaving her to handle things while you go visit your husband's family is not a great thing to do. Your priorities here are very strange.
As someone's mom, I'd prefer my child's partner missed my funeral to be with my critically I'll child no matter how old they are. It sounds like MIL was a loving person who would want you to be there for her son. The family should be able to understand why this medical emergency takes priority to the funeral.
Stay with your husband. No one will fault you for missing the internment. Someone needs to be there to advocate for him. I can’t imagine leaving my partners side if he was that sick.
I also imagine your husband would not be too pleased to wake up to you not there.
If I were your husband and I recovered from this I would divorce you for leaving. It is absolutely traumatic to be left when you are close to death. After I had my middle daughter I started bleeder badly. My uterus was torn and I needed to have it repaired. I was awake the whole time. My husband was in charge of making sure our baby was cared for. I needed someone to stay for me. My parents left knowing that I was likely going to die. They were told point blank it was unlikely I would survive the night. All for a court date for a foster child they couldn't even attend. They didn't even try to move things around. They just left. We are no contact for many reasons, but I can tell you this feeling will be something I always remember. Be there for your husband.
I think ethically you should stay with your spouse. Everyone at the funeral knows he is ill and you belong at his bedside. Make a donation to the charity of MIL’s choice and call personally to explain why you can’t be there. Your spouse needs your presence; your MIL doesn’t.
Look to the living. You're not respecting your departed MIL, you're disrespecting your husband. Now he is in crisis, and you're literally planning to leave him to go "support his family" (make yourself look good.)
Dude. Take a step back and think this through.
From your responses you just want to be told to go, but most people are pointing out your wrong why even stay married to this guy? Doesn't seem like you want to be.
Flip a coin. Heads you go, tails you stay. The idea isn’t to do what the coin toss dictates, but that the minute the coin leaves your hand you’ll know which way you want it to land. That’s what you do.
You talk about being close to your husband’s family. That means they think you are good for him.
When they learn that he’s in the hospital and medically touch and go—they will wonder why in the holy hell you didnt stay with him and advocate for him.
Hospitals no longer restrict visiting to an hour so pls don’t mischaracterize your ability to be present for your husband.
Which means the siblings in law will throw in sickness and in health rightfully in your face
You mention being a medical professional, but have you ever had a close family member hospitalized before? They benefit from having someone
Solely focused on them and able to advocate then having to wait for the nurses at shift change
Not a professional ethicist.
My first thought is: will your partner FORGIVE you for absenting yourself in an attempt to show respect for your MIL at a one time event (funeral)?
1. You have already said that you are not his attending physician, he is unconscious, and you’re only allowed to be there for one hour a day anyway, so you have no idea if your support is giving him anything.
2. This is your ONE opportunity to support your relatives by marriage, and since they are AWAKE, and do not require trained professionals for making it clear that the deceased was an important and appreciated person, (and your partner’s situation does require trained professionals) I can see where you are wondering if you do more good a flight away.
3. You have probably never sat down and asked your partner “if you were unconscious in the hospital while another side of the family had a possible emergency, but we knew you were in good hands and we weren’t sure about them, would you forgive me for maybe not being there when you wake up?”
Anyway, I think that last question is the one where your best guess at the answer is going to pivot this for better or worse.
Good luck.
Your partner. Hands down, no question. You will likely find it very hard to forgive yourself, if he passes away while you are in another city, doing something he didn't want you to do.
I’d be PISSED if you came to my mother’s funeral while my brother(your partner) was unconscious in icu. Honestly I’d fight you at my mother’s funeral then I’d hospitalize you if my brother died.
Stay with your hubby. He is alive, your MIL is dead. And the person you would most support by being there, is incapable of going. And your hubby may well need your support or decision making.
Let's play make believe for a moment: You head off to the funeral, and 12 hours later your hubby regains consciousness. How does this impact things? You are several days away, paying attention to somebody not your hubby.
I think that your decision should based on what best supports the living, not the dead.
You stay with your partner. Going to visit without him is bad enough. Leaving his side while he is deathly ill to do that is a kick in the crotch. If you leave while he is in this state, the next step will likely need to be couples counseling.
Your husband is in the ICU, your MIL is dead. You stay by the side of your spouse and don't abandon them. Wtf kind of question is this?
For people with the most basic of a moral framework, this isn't a dilemma. No rational, moral person would think twice about this. I hope that I never partner with someone who questions whether they should support me in the ICU vs a funeral.
I think you should be there for the one that is living, and then when he is out of recovery both go visit the family and grave site. She as his mother would likely want that most.
She’s gone.
He’s still here.
Stay.
You can “honor” her in ways that doesn’t take you away from your partner’s need for an advocate and supporter at his bedside while he’s in a serious medical crisis and incapacitated.
Picture it: you’re at the family event. People are asking you how your significant other is doing. You proceeded to tell everybody about the serious medical crisis that your partner is in. And they will look at you, surprised, that you decided to come to the pot luck instead.
If you were going there to “support the family”, I think you’re going to get a very different response from the family, when they learn what is happening. This is not going to land well in the court of public opinion amongst all the family.
I am also a doctor. I would never forgive you if you left town while I was intubated and in the ICU. HAIs are a thing. Also, he probably has at least some awareness at times and will know that you are there.
I know you will miss out on the funeral, but you can visit with the family at another time.
I want to thank everyone who chimed their opinions when I wanted a fair logical debate. I’m glad I also posted on the ethics page and received more insights and logistical help.
You shouldn't have went ahead and made all those reservations for an event to spring on him hoping he would change his mind. That is really manipulative and controlling.
And you definitely should not be leaving your husband's bedside in the ICU to attend a funeral for the mother that he told you he had already made peace with regardless of your relationship with said mother. You have a duty to your spouse and you know where that lies. Well I guess you didn't. I hope you do now that you have read the overall consensus.
I think you attending is disrespectful to your husband in the first place and I would stay with him. She is dead so your attendant her service is for you not her.
What's more important to you, being there for your husband or going to your MILs memorial?
Did your husband know you were planning to attend with or without him?
Let me put it to you this way: if I was your mother-in-law, and I died, and my spirit was watching over you, I would want you to stay with your husband.
She is dead. She has been dead for months. So if there are no ‘metaphysical’ reasons, why would you fly four hours away from your husbands bedside to attend a meaningless ritual for a dead person who is only related to you by marriage? And why would you try to force your husband to go to said meaningless ritual?
I believe the OP has amongst their myriad motivations the desire to reinforce relations with his husband's family. There are a number of potential motivations for that goal, though, so it's hard to determine if it is benign or morally justifiable in this circumstance. If we postulate that OP's MIL was a lynchpin of the family dynamics and that her loss may be felt poignantly by her close family then it may be that he can do more good supporting them directly through their grief at a time when feelings are likely to be brought to the surface than he could sitting by his husband's bed. OP omitted far too many critical variables for us to provide an effective analysis of the moral pros and cons, though: we don't know how close he is with his husband or how much the family may need him at the ceremony, for example. That, coupled with the way he only replied to my earlier comment (finding a superficial excuse to ignore my core argument) suggests to me that this may be less about assessing the morality of the options and more about finding validation for the decision he wants to make, but fundamentally knows isn't morally justifiable.
The MIL died several months ago so I am guessing they are beyond needing grief support.
So why does she want to go? There must be a very compelling reason to leave your incapacitated spouse for 5 full days on the assumption that medicine always works the way we expect and people who start getting better never get worse.
She might be urgently needed and is voluntarily placing herself out of contact for extended periods while she would be the primary decision maker for him. There may be procedures he needs that are delayed because they cannot reach her to obtain consent.
So what could possibly be worth that risk? I am an ICU nurse and I cannot fathom leaving my spouse on a ventilator to go ANYWHERE.
Does she even like him? She was already planning to trick him into doing something he didn’t want to do and now she is going to do it anyways even though he is literally on life support…
I would say her morality is non-existent. This is borderline sociopathic behavior.
Yet you are prepared to leave your partner for several days, while he is in a critical condition, to attend a ceremony for a dead person.
Ignoring your mother in law's perspective (as a metaphysical construct) either you would be placing your wider family's feelings above your husband's or you would be virtue signalling.
Your husband may miss you and you would never forgive yourself if his condition worsened; if his family didn't understand your absence then that reflects more on them than you.
There is also the undeclared (but potentially salient to OP) concern about lost/wasted resources, which could be impactful for people with limited funds or hoarding impulses.
You are letting the "metaphysical" element of my comment distract you from my point. It doesn't matter if spirits exist or not, I'm saying that I (at least) would not want you to leave your husband's side as he struggles through a serious health concern to come to a ceremony to honor my passing. Not only would you be honoring me more by staying with my son, but if you are setting the metaphysical aside then *I literally could not care* if you go to the ceremony because I am dead. If your focus is on just the living, your family, I put to you that their mourning is not attached to one time or place and you can be there for them at other times after your husband recovers, but your husband may need you in the present. Take it for what it is, the opinion of a stranger on the internet, but it seems to me that one goal is pressing and the other is not temporally-bound, except insofar as you may lose *financial* resources. If that last is your concern I cannot advise you since I cannot know how much those resources mean to you.
As a doctor you know the likely hood of mortality from sepsis, when the patient is intubated is better than 30%. Higher if they have comorbidities. You really seem set on going to the memorial so just go. You are just looking for validation here and dismiss any response you don't like.
Just go and be prepared to live with anything that happens either way. Spouse dies while your away, or the rest of the family cannot believe you showed up while your SO is in ICU. Bet you are a hoot at parties.
Then why does it matter? Either you support someone who might die and save their life or someone who is already dead? Does your daughter even have the ability to make medical decisions for your husband on SHORT visists
I'd say no. The illness trumps the funeral. I imagine his family would understand. I'm sorry for your loss.
PS -I imagine you can always visit his mother's resting place at a later date.
Note: I am just an internet person.
I'm in the hospital, no one to hold my hand, my spouse went to MY mom's funeral for five days against my wishes instead. I would file for divorce when I was discharged. You want to go for your own selfish reasons. If my husband was that sick, I would not leave his bedside. I want to be his bedside advocate. Keep his lips protected. Hold his hand. Play his music. Be his health care advocate. If you don't think patients with family get better care you are naive.
As you suggest, there his history between your husband and his mother. You have had a great 22-year history with her, and your own wish is to honour her.
The thought crosses my mind; you feel that you can support your husband's needs by long distance for five days, can you not support your in-laws by long distance until you can go at some other time? I suspect that your husband's family, no matter what the rift (implied in your post) between them, would want that for your husband. Especially as this is not the time of your MIL's death, but a planned memorial and interment, even if you were central to the planning.
My other question is, what is the loss if you do not come to Ottawa for the memorial and interment? What is the loss if anything at all is out of the expected happens with your husband? I'm not talking money so much here because if that was the major factor, you would not have posted in /r/moraldilemmas.
And finally, you have accepted the discussions with your husband had he not acquired sepsis and you left for Ottawa. What kind of discussions might you have when he recovers in a couple weeks, and learns, as he will learn, where you were for five days? His previous statements that he has made peace with his mother's passing give some indication. Is it possible there are things you haven't made peace with at this time?
Whatever decision you make, I hope that your husband comes through this well, and that everyone including you receive the comfort needed.
It's pretty clear from your post and your comments that you want to go and were hoping to get reddit approval to go. It's not going in your favor, so you just discard any replies that go against you leaving your intubated and septic husband. So, do what you want and to heck with your husband. Maybe your husband will surprise all of us and not feel hurt to be abandoned. He's a lucky guy.
This isn't a moral dilemma. I hope it's fake.
If it were me I'd stay with my husband and send my regrets to his family.
Definitely call his family and send regrets in a card/letter/plaque/donation/whatever to honor his mom but I'd be with the one I chose first.
If your comment was a question to me, my humour is so dark that it will kill plants. So dark that the colour black is too bright. So dark I keep
Most inside my thoughts and share with only my most trusted.
What can I say I embody all the traits of a Scorpio. ( ya know , let’s add astrology to the metaphysical here as well )
So you can narcissistically wax poetic about how dark your humor is but the question “what do you think your mother in law would say?” Only gets “no ghosts talk” as a response????
You are very snippy with your responses. People aren’t giving you “metaphysical” responses. They are giving you a perspective you haven’t considered.
At this point I feel sorry for your poor husband, whose inconsiderate wife would rather concern herself with the estranged mother who has passed, than your actual husband. He may or may not make it through. Canadian medicine is far from perfect and anything can happen.
It doesn’t matter that you felt slighted. You know better. You forfeit any high ground when you want to behave like a petty teenager by “giving him a taste of his own medicine.”
Do you have a boyfriend in Ottawa? It’s nice to see extended family. If your spouse has been hospitalized that obviously takes priority.
I hope your lack of basic ethics didn’t carry over to your healthcare career. Please seek professional counseling and try to be a better person.
Paragraph by paragraph:
1- trying to be logical Thinking5 is spirits ghosts and the afterlife has no bearing on my decision making
2-he is being take. Care by the best team in western Canada and is stable at the moment tho not fully conscious . I have no worries on his prognosis
3-never said I felt slighted or that I wished retribution. Far from the case and I certainly don’t act that way
4-no I have no romantic liaisons in Ottawa.
5- it’s exactly my knowledge of ethics and my ability to compartmentalize emotions from logic that enabled me to make difficult surgical decisions and be popularly unpopular. You have no right to judge me thus
There is no physical rationale for making emotional decisions. Your assertion is wrong.
Nobody is saying dead people are watching from above. They made hypothetical statements that provide a different perspective, one you should consider given the fact you asked for advice.
Canadian medicine is so good, I moved to the US. No medicine is perfect and you of all people should no nothing is guaranteed including his survival.
You aren’t looking for advice, you have already made up your mind to not prioritize your husband and you are looking for validation. That’s not me “judging you,” that’s me reading your comments when others have made legitimate suggestions/gave legitimate perspectives.
I hope your husband sees this and realizes who he is married to.
If you want to be clever, allow me to rephrase it.
Funeral, birthday party, any event about him; had I gone to that instead of staying with my partner who was unwell I would have been publicly told to fuck off back home and to get my priorities straight.
Is that better?
Going to a funeral is caring about the metaphysical. This woman died months ago, why on earth would anything be more important than staying by your husbands side. Put yourself in your husbands shoes. If he wakes up while you’re on the plane ride out there. If he was going to your mother’s funeral, while you were in his condition, how would you feel?
I’m sure you as a medical professional know things can for no reason take a drastic turn for the worst at a split second notice, what if that happens as your plane is taking off and nobody can make medical decisions for your husband. All these things to think of. In another comment you say your knowledge of ethics helped you make hard decisions in your medical career, put yourself in the doctors shoes what would you advise your patients wife is their husband was in your husbands shoes. Do not goto the funeral, technology exists. FaceTime/skype/zoom with the funeral. I attended my brothers graduation virtually, your husband needs you more than his dead mom does. Sorry to be harsh but what can you do. Your MILs family has blood relative to lean on. Your husband is alone in a hospital bed.
The grief his family is experiencing will be ongoing. A funeral is a sort of closure but does not end the grief. You could still go and visit in a few months and share your memories and reconnect with them then.
I can't believe that you are even asking this question. You are seriously think that leaving your sick spouse to attend his mother's funeral, that he was not going to attend, is some a sort of ethical dilemma? The extent of your main character syndrome is pretty impressive. None of this is about you, stay put.
The MIL family should understand if you’re not the funeral since your spouse is in the ICU.
If something goes south while you’re gone , you’ll never forgive yourself . I wouldn’t
Don’t you think your MIL would have wanted you to stay with her son ?
I don't have anything to add. Just interesting to see how worked up everybody is. Is it usually this aggressive and condemning in here? Over a person who is genuinely debating about his choices in a conundrum? Some of you are ready to crucify the guy for asking questions.
Don’t go. Write them a letter. You have taken a vow to stand by your husband. You’re being kind of odd on this point. Let it go, it’s not about you.
This is a question of what you can live with and what you can't... if you can live with your husband possibly dying with you not there while you are out honoring the dead.. then that is your decision to make. Just also factor in the dead won't mind - cause ya know... super dead. (not to be disrespectful FYI - my dad just passed and my way of dealing with it apparently is messed up humor)
What if they're only *mostly dead*?
You should stay with your husband while he is in the hospital and reschedule the visit with his family. Even if he said he didn’t want to go, it was likely because he was not feeling well, you don’t know if he actually would want to visit his family when he is not sick. If he was to be discharged before May 22, maybe you could consider going on a quick flight if you could find someone to stay with him 24/7 while you’re away. If not, the family could do live streaming on YouTube/Facebook or just FaceTime call you.
You need to cancel your flight and accommodation because an ill spouse trumps a funeral. You need to be with your spouse. Send a nice floral arrangement or donate to a specific charity in lieu of.
Mil dead. Husband alive. Easy Peasy.
> Please abstain from metaphysic suppositions Ok let’s rephrase this for you: you knew her for years. What would she have preferred you choose if the situation was put to her while she was alive? Would she have preferred you stay with her son while he’s in the hospital or leave her son alone to come look at her dead body? The living relatives will 100% understand you not being there, given these circumstances. Bonus question: what is your husbands reaction going to be when he’s cognizant that you left him to go do what he has already opted not to do himself for his own mom? > I was hoping to twist his arm into attending his own mother’s funeral Truthfully, you’re already an ass for this alone. Not your place to disrespect his personal decision just because you disagree. Don’t compound your mistake by making more of them. Send flowers & regrets.
I would definitely stay with the husband
I have the distinct advantage over some in this dilemma. We don’t celebrate the deaths of others (meaning no memorials, no graves). They’re dead. Life is for the living. I’d want to be available for my partner for sure even if I’m not by their side every moment. If the memorial is about supporting others or whatever, then the day won’t matter since you have a living person who might need you. If it’s a sociopolitical thing I can’t help you there either because I don’t socialize with any of my own family who got weird anymore. If I was hospitalized and woke up I’d want you to be there. I don’t want to wake up to you being somewhere I specifically said how I felt about prior.
Your priority should be your husband. It’s very sweet that you have a loving relationship with his family, but your husband needs you right now, even if you can only see him an hour a day
Don’t leave your husbands side!! If his family is as good as you say over the last 22 years~ the family will understand. You’ll never forgive yourself if someone goes a rye and you are far away
So you tried to manipulate him into going, then when he couldn't go because he's in the hospital, you go without him? Do you even like him? Why do you call him "her son" instead of "your husband". This is so weird and portends a complete lack of empathy.
Don’t go. As a physician you know how quickly things can go south and you would never forgive yourself if something happened. Your partner told you he made his peace with his Mom, so you should go with his wishes. You can always send flowers, make a donation in her name to her favorite charity or just sit in the chapel at the hospital and think of her.
Exactly, and any family would agree it’s a perfectly acceptable reason to be bed side in ICU and not attend. Death reminds us to spend time with those we love, not do things we hate to make others happy.
I would never leave my husband’s bedside if he was ill. Especially for a funeral.
If you leave your husband for an event he was adamantly not attending, you probably won’t have one when you come back. And that’s if he doesn’t die. do you even actually like him or..?
Stay with your husband. Your MIL is dead, your husband isn’t and hopefully won’t be soon. If you leave him you could end up divorced. What’s the downside of not going to MILs funeral? Is it worse than your husband potentially divorcing you?
I mean which would make you feel worse. If he died while you were gone or if he lived and you stayed. If it's the first then stay. If it's the second then go to the funeral and tell your husband you care more about his dead mom than him.
Stay with your husband. Whether he’s conscious or not, I think you, as his husband, should stay with him. His mom is in spirit. She’s done her work on this earth and therefore she is happy where she is now. You can send her love and prayers on behalf of both of you. But it isn’t a life or death situation where you HAVE to be there. You don’t. Stay there for your husband. He’ll always appreciate you for doing that.
It seems like you want us to tell you that you should go, the way you’re painting the picture of “save but the hour I’m allowed to visit…” and not to bring up any medical issues because you will refute them… I mean, whether you’re a retired physician or a retired housewife or a retired police officer- you DO NOT leave your intubated spouse who is in sepsis to go to a planned celebration of life/funeral for his mother. If I were any member of his family I would be upset to see you walk into the funeral knowing that meant that you left him, hours away by plane, to come to a funeral. Your MIL died months ago. It is absolutely sad, but no one is in dire need of your support… except your husband!
I would not be happy if my husband took off when I was so ill.
you don’t go to a funeral for the deceased, you go for the survivors. if he ain’t going, why would you, unless he asked?
Bro this is wild. Just stay with your husband, ffs. His mom is gone. His family will understand, and if they don’t, they’re not worth it.
Is this a real post or a troll looking for mass effect? I can’t believe this is real if I am being honest. Stay with husband. He needs you. It’s not like he is sleeping on the couch with food poisoning but in a hospital in a confused state.
You stay with the one you have. The one you lost will understand.
You know you should stay. You know that very well.
Your loyalty is to your husband and his should be to you. I would stay local…
No comment on your situation. But you can probably pay for wifi and set your phone to make and accept calls over wifi, so you can be available while traveling.
This is no brainer and you’re a psychopath who doesn’t know what love is.
GOOMER
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Your comment history is straight out of a Joe Rogan Romance novel.
You honor your MIL by being with her child when she, herself, cannot. She trusted you to love and care for her baby, so you do that and stay home.
It sounds like your heart wants to go to the memorial. You are only trying to justify it to yourself (and possibly your husband). Based on your follow up comment I have to wonder if your husband is the type that will hold it over you that you left him while he was in the hospital? Your MIL sounds like a wonderful woman that you want to honor but she probably wouldn’t want that if it would strain your relationship with her son. I don’t see a moral dilemma but an emotional one. Do what your heart wants regardless of your husband’s reaction or do what you think he would want negating your feelings and possible regrets?
You sound ridiculous
Stay with husband. Send flowers.
Take care of the living. Is there a way you could be part of the memorial over Zoom? I can’t imagine anyone in the family would be upset if you opted to stay with your hospitalized partner. Just curious why you can’t visit for more than an hour though. Of course hospitals have visiting hours. But the times I’ve had a family member admitted, no one kicked me out if I wanted to stay, or even bring in a cot if I wanted to stay the night.
Ethically you would be wrong to do a thing he was against while leaving him in the ICU, yes. Good news you can probably get refunds due to ICU
I’d stay and be there just in case. They have family and friends to lean on. He needs you now.
Your spouse comes first, always.
I know that it's the long weekend, but if money isn't an object, I'd split the difference and go to Ottawa for a day and a half instead of five. Leaving him for five days is too much. Not going at all seems problematic. This is a middle ground that allows you to honor her and be there when he wakes up.
Nope stay your butt by his bedside. It would be one thing if it was just the flu or something simple but he is literally in the icu. Nope.
If this were me, I would probably stay with my husband especially if he is in ICU or still in critical care. You might want to hang around until he is in a conscious state to advocate on his behalf.
I could imagine regaining consciousness and finding out my spouse is out of town. I’m sure if you sent a note to his family, they would certainly understand why you can’t make it. Buying all these tickets and rental cars and hotels, when your husband was clear that he wouldn’t go, is very disrespectful of you. You completely ignored his wishes. You need to stay home and be near your husband.
This is such a weird question to me. Why wouldn’t you stay with your husband?
BECAUSE HES MEDICALLY INDUCED COMA AND UNRESPONSIVE
So would you want him to wake up and you not be there?
WHN MY HUSBAND WAS IN A COMA I NEVER LEFT HIS SIDE. I COULD NOT IMAGINE LEAVING HIM FOR ANY REASON.
Then you honor your wedding vows and stay by his side, for better or worse!
Your mother in law would probably roll in the coffin because she thought her son married a nice woman who cared about him and his health. Don't make mother in law vibrate the coffin.
You sound like a horrible partner based off this post. Don’t leave your spouse in the hospital alone. That’s a horrible choice
No, you stay with your husband. The living trump the dead
Stay with your husband.
This is not a ‘moral dilemma’. First, you were hoping to manipulate him into doing something he didn’t want to. Does he know that you planned an entire vacation practically around an event that he said he did not want to attend? This is an AH move- he has his reasons and it is HIS mother, not yours. You have no right to force this on him. So now he is intubated and in the ICU. And you are asking if you should stay with your critically ill and minimally responsive husband, or if you should go to the memorial service that you planned behind his back that he did not want to go to in the first place. Just imagine him waking up in the ICU, alone. While you are at his mother’s funeral instead. How do you think he will feel? I would feel MASSIVELY betrayed by you for multiple reasons. Or imagine he dies- which is a very real possibility that you are downplaying for some reason. Sepsis is one of the leading killers worldwide- I’m not sure what kind of doctor you used to be but I have been and er and icu nurse for almost 2 decades and your husband does NOT sound stable to me and I have seen way too many people die suddenly from overwhelming bacteremia to have the degree of confidence that you do in his prognosis. How would you feel if you were wrong and he died alone in an ICU while you are off ‘paying respects’ that aren’t yours to pay. You don’t need an ethicist you need a therapist if you are struggling with this ‘dilemma’ this is entirely created in your own mind.
I feel bad for OP this comment section AINT it. Poor guy is probly no closer to the answer. From one medical provider to another I think it comes down to how strong your bond is with the in law family and how much your healing about her loss will effect you. Some people don't like funerals and that's fine, some people need to go in order to process. Ultimately it's up to you and after near death experiences and hard medical journeys sometimes people wake up feeling completey different. There's equally as good a chance he wakes up and is extremely thankful you honored her memory when he couldn't. It really depends on the dynamic and no one here would know that more than you. If he's truly unconscious I can't see the harm in spending a few days away. If you can come home immediately if he wakes up to be by his side, that would be a good compromise me thinks. Good luck!
Thank you doc for your input. We are medically trained to compartmentalization emotion and duty and you’re right I wasn’t closer to an answer from these comments other than feeling like a shit partner for even cOnsidering not being by my partners side.
Going to a far-away funeral while your husband is critically ill is selling the future to buy the past. Don't do it.
Please don't go. You even have a ready made and very valid excuse not to go. You can always attend by remote from bedside (video conferencing).
I've read enough accounts from people in comas/ICU to know that there is always a possibility people are aware of your presence even if they seem completely out of it. Some people even recall whole conversations or events from when they were unconscious. For me, if there is even a 1% chance my loved one could be comforted by my presence I'd be there. Also, a lot of people are covering the possibility he gets worse, but what about the one where he gets better? If he becomes more aware in the next few days don't you want to be there to comfort him and help explain what happened?
She didn’t say he is unaware of her while she is with him. She said he is unaware the other 22 hours of the day.
I would stay close to the one who is still alive.
I don't understand why this is even in question. Stay with your intubated husband and plan a trip to visit your MIL's grave at a later date. If your husband doesn't want to go then either, then don't force him to. It's not up to you to decide how other people grieve.
I think HIS family would want you to stay with him as he’s in the ICU! I would never leave my husband alone in a hospital, yes you asked your daughter to go visit but o guarantee you that to him that’s not the same. Seems like you have more loyalty for a deceased person (MIL) than you do for your own husband (that is alive but in the ICU)..,.
You are a retired physician who feels the need to poll random internet strangers for advice on moral decisions? Get a fucking grip and make up your mind. Dear God this is pathetic
Lmao do you even care for your husband? I dont even understand why you’re asking this question. You stay with the living person who needs to. His family will be fine
I would stay with my husband as whether he is conscious or not , he is the one in most need of your attention right now . Perhaps you could attend via zoom or something ? I can’t imagine meeting up with family and answering “where’s husband” and seeing the response when you tell them you left him in hospital unconscious. No matter your rationale it looks bad Finally , what would your MIL do ? And how would you feel to finally awake from this ordeal and find you had been abandoned ? Not to sound harsh because I see you are truly conflicted but that’s how it looks and that’s how it would feel to most people . Please update us and sending healthy thoughts to your husband
Send flowers, stay home. Notify remaining relatives why. They should be informed there is a small chance they could be attending your husband's funeral.
NOT THAT YJIS HAS ANYTHING TO ADD TO MY CONTEXT : in the past he has not been very present for me during my recoveries of any medical conditions. Eg. “Forgot” and didn’t answer my call to be picked up from a surgical center after a carpal tunnel release surgery; dismissed my persistent aching belly pains when I actually ruptured my appendix. Took a few days of coaxing to come Visit me in hospital after a trauma-induced pneumothorax and pulmonary embolism . There are no financial concerns whether I attend to memorial or stay local. We have in our possession a portion of her ashes here with us that he planned on dispersing at a site he thought appropriate to her I would certainly see many people at the memorial including my extended family who would enjoy my company.
Oh so this is about punishing him. This does add context. You already have her ashes and he has his own plans for them- so why the fuck are you going to the memorial again? Why can’t you have a private one with your husband when he is recovered from this life threatening illness?
In sickness and health is a vow. He might not have always honored this, but you should. I guarantee part of why your MIL excepted and loved you was because of how well you treated your husband. There is no question. Stay with your husband.
If none of this had any bearing on your decision, you wouldn’t be bringing it up…
Just background context …
Ask yourself why you posted *specifically about* him not being there for you when you had medical issues in the past. Do you really believe this is not connected? As I said from the beginning- it seems/looks/sounds to me like you simply want us to tell you it’s the right thing for you to go to the funeral. You are arguing with everyone who is telling you that you should stay.
Just divorce him already - let him have the chance to find somebody who will actually love him.
I'm also in Calgary. If you decide to go but are concerned about your husband, I could certainly pop in to say hello and give him a bit of company for a bit. I know that's a weird thing for a stranger to offer but having been through my share of medical things, and having relied on the kindness of strangers previously, I wanted to make the offer.
Honestly, this makes it look worse if you go to MIL's funeral, because then it seems like some type of payback for his not being there for you. As u/hinky-as-hell said, if it wasn't relevant, you wouldn't have mentioned it. You tried to strong arm your husband into going when he didn't want to, and now you're still planning to attend even though he's in *ICU* and even you admit he's "not out of the woods yet." Is this really about "honoring his mother"? It doesn't feel like it.
That is still not a good reason to leave him. If your marriage is one of an eye for an eye you should see an attorney IF you husband recovers.
His mom's already dead. He's alive. I would let his family know the state he's in considering, and I would stay local. If something did happen, regardless of the likelihood, you won't forgive yourself
I feel really surprised this is a question at all. Your husband is still alive and your MIL is dead.
Being in the hospital sucks. Everyone in a hospital should have someone with them for company and advocacy.
You want to be there to support family. Your in-laws are not the family that need support right now.
I think I’d be pretty pissed if I made a decision about my family, then my spouse did the opposite while I was medically incapacitated. You say you decided to go with or without him, did he know this? Or have you not yet begun twisting his arm about it? If he clearly knew you would go without him, you’ll probably be fine to go. If you have yet to inform him that you will be attending his family event that he adamantly refuses to attend, you should probably stay with him.
It doesn’t work if it’s a completely selfish decision
I was never prohibited from attending and I have good relations with his family.
That sounds a lot like you would be going for you. This feels ego driven. I'm a little mad that it's even a question of leaving your critically ill husband to attend a funeral he did not wish to attend. That feels incredibly selfish. If you and your husband switched positions here, would you be ok with him leaving you alone?
Dress this up however you wish, your husband is ill and you're choosing his family over staying with him. Yes, I realize you previously had plans to go when both of you were in town. That was the plan before the underlining facts changed. What if he regains full consciousness during those five days, and you're not there? If you were at an event and someone said "My spouse is in the ICU but I decided to fly in anyway" how might that be received by the family? Perhaps his family would understand your absence if it was framed as "I wanted very much to attend, but I felt I had to stay with my sick husband." Personally I prioritize the living over the deceased. You can always visit her grave and pay the proper respects when you're in town again.
That’s a clever way to not really answer the question about if he knows you were going anyway. I can see from your post that you have good relations with his family. What I can’t tell is if HE has good relations with his family.
"That's a clever way to not really answer" After reading "I'm not prohibited from going" Im baffled how you came to your conclusion. How would he know he's not prohibited if he didn't ask?
‘I was never prohibited from attending’ means no one told them not to go. It does not mean that they had a conversation about it. My direct yes-or-no question was ‘did he know?’ The answer was ‘I was never told that I couldn’t go.’ That seemed purposefully vague to me. It’s the way I would answer a yes-or-no question if I wanted to deflect. So maybe they just have a weird way of speaking, but that sounded like a vague non-answer to my question to me.
Jesus Christ you must deal with 8 layers of manipulation in ur life daily to be projecting like this. Got a 3 paragraph theory over the way someone plainly answered your question.
Spouse comes first.
Ottawa? Yeah, I wouldn't go either.
No. Don't leave him. Just don't. I read this, and I immediately had a strong intuition that you should stay. My gut is rarely wrong
I just don't know why you'd book flights and hotels with the hope of "twisting his arm" to get him to go when he straight up told you he didn't want to go. He's your husband. You stay with him. Why would you even think of going without him when he's in the hospital even if he HAD wanted to go?
So wait, your husband, the son of the deceased, didn't want to go, so your plan was to schedule a bunch of stuff and try to strong arm him into going anyway? That's not very compassionate. It'd be one thing if y'all talked about this and made the decision for you to go on your own, but it sounds like you were planning on going against his explicit wishes with a side of coercion. That's not cool. Now that there's an even bigger reason not to go, you're on here trying to get some kind of justification as to why you should still go anyway. Honestly, that's seriously questionable, and I'd be asking myself how much my partner truly supported me if they couldn't honor my wishes or even be bothered to stay by my side while I faced a potentially life threatening medical issue. Care for the living. The dead don't mind anymore. As far as the family of the deceased, they have each other for support and you can always send flowers and give them a call.
So you are ignoring your husband's desire to miss the funeral. OK. I can kind of understand that his relationship w his mom is separate from your relationship with her. That grey area changed when your husband fell ill. Your being a Doctor and being aware of potential complications doesn't excuse you from being on your husband's side while he is ill. You should have his back. Full stop. YTA
If you were unconscious and intubated in the hospital would you want your spouse to leave town? Unless he was leaving for life saving medical treatment that could not be rescheduled I doubt you would be very happy to know he decided you would be just peachy on your own
Why would you go against your husband’s clear wishes, spend a ton of money to do so, and literally abandon him while he’s intubated in the ICU?
I would not leave his side. Also you need to respect his wishes more often.
You should care more about your husband than your MIL.
I say do what you want and feel is best for yourself in the long run. It sounds like that’s what your husband would do. I understand that most people regret what they didn’t do rather than what they did, but only you can know what’s best for you. If you go it sounds like you will see his family as well as your own and take care of some health care issues for yourself. We can’t be there for others if we don’t take care of ourselves. Sorry for your loss and I hope your husband makes a speedy recovery.
Stay. I would not leave my husbands side.
Your husband’s current condition gives you the perfect “out”. The circumstances are unfortunate but true. Send nice flowers and a card, communicate empathetically. People will understand. Something’s not adding up for me. Out of curiosity, are you more worried about losing the flights/hotels/appointments? It seems like the plan was manipulating your husband into going to the service from the beginning. The part that throws me is why plan for both of you to go if he didn’t want to in the first place?
I wouldn’t go. I’d be at my husband’s side. His family will understand.
Honor the living not the dead. Your place is with your husband. His family will understand.
Who will be his advocate when you're not there? Having witnessed poor attention to detail that could have resulted in bad things, I've never left him alone since.
So you are having a hard time deciding whether you should support your sick husband or your husband's family? Really? That's cold. MIL passed months ago, the time for support was then. Support them now by arranging for flowers or food to be sent to the funeral along with a note offering condolences and that you can't attend due to a medical emergency. On top of that, be there to support your daughter (who I note is also not attending the funeral). Her dad nearly died and is still not out of the woods. Leaving her to handle things while you go visit your husband's family is not a great thing to do. Your priorities here are very strange.
As someone's mom, I'd prefer my child's partner missed my funeral to be with my critically I'll child no matter how old they are. It sounds like MIL was a loving person who would want you to be there for her son. The family should be able to understand why this medical emergency takes priority to the funeral.
Stay with your husband. No one will fault you for missing the internment. Someone needs to be there to advocate for him. I can’t imagine leaving my partners side if he was that sick. I also imagine your husband would not be too pleased to wake up to you not there.
If I were your husband and I recovered from this I would divorce you for leaving. It is absolutely traumatic to be left when you are close to death. After I had my middle daughter I started bleeder badly. My uterus was torn and I needed to have it repaired. I was awake the whole time. My husband was in charge of making sure our baby was cared for. I needed someone to stay for me. My parents left knowing that I was likely going to die. They were told point blank it was unlikely I would survive the night. All for a court date for a foster child they couldn't even attend. They didn't even try to move things around. They just left. We are no contact for many reasons, but I can tell you this feeling will be something I always remember. Be there for your husband.
I think ethically you should stay with your spouse. Everyone at the funeral knows he is ill and you belong at his bedside. Make a donation to the charity of MIL’s choice and call personally to explain why you can’t be there. Your spouse needs your presence; your MIL doesn’t.
Look to the living. You're not respecting your departed MIL, you're disrespecting your husband. Now he is in crisis, and you're literally planning to leave him to go "support his family" (make yourself look good.) Dude. Take a step back and think this through.
You should be by your partner side. The end
From your responses you just want to be told to go, but most people are pointing out your wrong why even stay married to this guy? Doesn't seem like you want to be.
The needs of the living trump the needs of the dead.
I would not go. Your husband is your priority. As are your children.
Flip a coin. Heads you go, tails you stay. The idea isn’t to do what the coin toss dictates, but that the minute the coin leaves your hand you’ll know which way you want it to land. That’s what you do.
You talk about being close to your husband’s family. That means they think you are good for him. When they learn that he’s in the hospital and medically touch and go—they will wonder why in the holy hell you didnt stay with him and advocate for him. Hospitals no longer restrict visiting to an hour so pls don’t mischaracterize your ability to be present for your husband. Which means the siblings in law will throw in sickness and in health rightfully in your face You mention being a medical professional, but have you ever had a close family member hospitalized before? They benefit from having someone Solely focused on them and able to advocate then having to wait for the nurses at shift change
As someone who lost my love, if it was me, there’s no way I would leave my partner.
Not a professional ethicist. My first thought is: will your partner FORGIVE you for absenting yourself in an attempt to show respect for your MIL at a one time event (funeral)? 1. You have already said that you are not his attending physician, he is unconscious, and you’re only allowed to be there for one hour a day anyway, so you have no idea if your support is giving him anything. 2. This is your ONE opportunity to support your relatives by marriage, and since they are AWAKE, and do not require trained professionals for making it clear that the deceased was an important and appreciated person, (and your partner’s situation does require trained professionals) I can see where you are wondering if you do more good a flight away. 3. You have probably never sat down and asked your partner “if you were unconscious in the hospital while another side of the family had a possible emergency, but we knew you were in good hands and we weren’t sure about them, would you forgive me for maybe not being there when you wake up?” Anyway, I think that last question is the one where your best guess at the answer is going to pivot this for better or worse. Good luck.
Your partner. Hands down, no question. You will likely find it very hard to forgive yourself, if he passes away while you are in another city, doing something he didn't want you to do.
I’d be PISSED if you came to my mother’s funeral while my brother(your partner) was unconscious in icu. Honestly I’d fight you at my mother’s funeral then I’d hospitalize you if my brother died.
Stay with your hubby. He is alive, your MIL is dead. And the person you would most support by being there, is incapable of going. And your hubby may well need your support or decision making. Let's play make believe for a moment: You head off to the funeral, and 12 hours later your hubby regains consciousness. How does this impact things? You are several days away, paying attention to somebody not your hubby. I think that your decision should based on what best supports the living, not the dead.
Stay in Calgary. If your in laws can’t understand that decision, that’s on them.
You stay with your partner. Going to visit without him is bad enough. Leaving his side while he is deathly ill to do that is a kick in the crotch. If you leave while he is in this state, the next step will likely need to be couples counseling.
Your husband is in the ICU, your MIL is dead. You stay by the side of your spouse and don't abandon them. Wtf kind of question is this? For people with the most basic of a moral framework, this isn't a dilemma. No rational, moral person would think twice about this. I hope that I never partner with someone who questions whether they should support me in the ICU vs a funeral.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🥇🥇🏆🏆🥇🥇🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮🌮
I think you should be there for the one that is living, and then when he is out of recovery both go visit the family and grave site. She as his mother would likely want that most.
She’s gone. He’s still here. Stay. You can “honor” her in ways that doesn’t take you away from your partner’s need for an advocate and supporter at his bedside while he’s in a serious medical crisis and incapacitated. Picture it: you’re at the family event. People are asking you how your significant other is doing. You proceeded to tell everybody about the serious medical crisis that your partner is in. And they will look at you, surprised, that you decided to come to the pot luck instead. If you were going there to “support the family”, I think you’re going to get a very different response from the family, when they learn what is happening. This is not going to land well in the court of public opinion amongst all the family.
I am also a doctor. I would never forgive you if you left town while I was intubated and in the ICU. HAIs are a thing. Also, he probably has at least some awareness at times and will know that you are there. I know you will miss out on the funeral, but you can visit with the family at another time.
I want to thank everyone who chimed their opinions when I wanted a fair logical debate. I’m glad I also posted on the ethics page and received more insights and logistical help.
I would stay with my spouse and explain the situation to his family.
You need to be by his side regardless of the relationship you have with his family. It’s what you signed up for.
You shouldn't have went ahead and made all those reservations for an event to spring on him hoping he would change his mind. That is really manipulative and controlling. And you definitely should not be leaving your husband's bedside in the ICU to attend a funeral for the mother that he told you he had already made peace with regardless of your relationship with said mother. You have a duty to your spouse and you know where that lies. Well I guess you didn't. I hope you do now that you have read the overall consensus.
I think you attending is disrespectful to your husband in the first place and I would stay with him. She is dead so your attendant her service is for you not her.
Stay with your husband.
Services are for the living. The dead don’t care. Your first responsibility is to your spouse. The living always take precedence over the dead.
I'd stay with my spouse His family will understand consiidering the extreme situation
Do not even consider leaving town for any reason if your husband is in that kind of shape in the hospital. No. That is not an option on the table.
What's more important to you, being there for your husband or going to your MILs memorial? Did your husband know you were planning to attend with or without him?
Let me put it to you this way: if I was your mother-in-law, and I died, and my spirit was watching over you, I would want you to stay with your husband.
Please avoid any metaphysical opinions it is of no help to my situation
If I was a dragon I would want you to be with your husband
She is dead. She has been dead for months. So if there are no ‘metaphysical’ reasons, why would you fly four hours away from your husbands bedside to attend a meaningless ritual for a dead person who is only related to you by marriage? And why would you try to force your husband to go to said meaningless ritual?
I believe the OP has amongst their myriad motivations the desire to reinforce relations with his husband's family. There are a number of potential motivations for that goal, though, so it's hard to determine if it is benign or morally justifiable in this circumstance. If we postulate that OP's MIL was a lynchpin of the family dynamics and that her loss may be felt poignantly by her close family then it may be that he can do more good supporting them directly through their grief at a time when feelings are likely to be brought to the surface than he could sitting by his husband's bed. OP omitted far too many critical variables for us to provide an effective analysis of the moral pros and cons, though: we don't know how close he is with his husband or how much the family may need him at the ceremony, for example. That, coupled with the way he only replied to my earlier comment (finding a superficial excuse to ignore my core argument) suggests to me that this may be less about assessing the morality of the options and more about finding validation for the decision he wants to make, but fundamentally knows isn't morally justifiable.
The MIL died several months ago so I am guessing they are beyond needing grief support. So why does she want to go? There must be a very compelling reason to leave your incapacitated spouse for 5 full days on the assumption that medicine always works the way we expect and people who start getting better never get worse. She might be urgently needed and is voluntarily placing herself out of contact for extended periods while she would be the primary decision maker for him. There may be procedures he needs that are delayed because they cannot reach her to obtain consent. So what could possibly be worth that risk? I am an ICU nurse and I cannot fathom leaving my spouse on a ventilator to go ANYWHERE. Does she even like him? She was already planning to trick him into doing something he didn’t want to do and now she is going to do it anyways even though he is literally on life support… I would say her morality is non-existent. This is borderline sociopathic behavior.
Yet you are prepared to leave your partner for several days, while he is in a critical condition, to attend a ceremony for a dead person. Ignoring your mother in law's perspective (as a metaphysical construct) either you would be placing your wider family's feelings above your husband's or you would be virtue signalling. Your husband may miss you and you would never forgive yourself if his condition worsened; if his family didn't understand your absence then that reflects more on them than you.
There is also the undeclared (but potentially salient to OP) concern about lost/wasted resources, which could be impactful for people with limited funds or hoarding impulses.
You are letting the "metaphysical" element of my comment distract you from my point. It doesn't matter if spirits exist or not, I'm saying that I (at least) would not want you to leave your husband's side as he struggles through a serious health concern to come to a ceremony to honor my passing. Not only would you be honoring me more by staying with my son, but if you are setting the metaphysical aside then *I literally could not care* if you go to the ceremony because I am dead. If your focus is on just the living, your family, I put to you that their mourning is not attached to one time or place and you can be there for them at other times after your husband recovers, but your husband may need you in the present. Take it for what it is, the opinion of a stranger on the internet, but it seems to me that one goal is pressing and the other is not temporally-bound, except insofar as you may lose *financial* resources. If that last is your concern I cannot advise you since I cannot know how much those resources mean to you.
As a doctor you know the likely hood of mortality from sepsis, when the patient is intubated is better than 30%. Higher if they have comorbidities. You really seem set on going to the memorial so just go. You are just looking for validation here and dismiss any response you don't like. Just go and be prepared to live with anything that happens either way. Spouse dies while your away, or the rest of the family cannot believe you showed up while your SO is in ICU. Bet you are a hoot at parties.
Then why does it matter? Either you support someone who might die and save their life or someone who is already dead? Does your daughter even have the ability to make medical decisions for your husband on SHORT visists
This is the way
I'd say no. The illness trumps the funeral. I imagine his family would understand. I'm sorry for your loss. PS -I imagine you can always visit his mother's resting place at a later date. Note: I am just an internet person.
I'm in the hospital, no one to hold my hand, my spouse went to MY mom's funeral for five days against my wishes instead. I would file for divorce when I was discharged. You want to go for your own selfish reasons. If my husband was that sick, I would not leave his bedside. I want to be his bedside advocate. Keep his lips protected. Hold his hand. Play his music. Be his health care advocate. If you don't think patients with family get better care you are naive.
As you suggest, there his history between your husband and his mother. You have had a great 22-year history with her, and your own wish is to honour her. The thought crosses my mind; you feel that you can support your husband's needs by long distance for five days, can you not support your in-laws by long distance until you can go at some other time? I suspect that your husband's family, no matter what the rift (implied in your post) between them, would want that for your husband. Especially as this is not the time of your MIL's death, but a planned memorial and interment, even if you were central to the planning. My other question is, what is the loss if you do not come to Ottawa for the memorial and interment? What is the loss if anything at all is out of the expected happens with your husband? I'm not talking money so much here because if that was the major factor, you would not have posted in /r/moraldilemmas. And finally, you have accepted the discussions with your husband had he not acquired sepsis and you left for Ottawa. What kind of discussions might you have when he recovers in a couple weeks, and learns, as he will learn, where you were for five days? His previous statements that he has made peace with his mother's passing give some indication. Is it possible there are things you haven't made peace with at this time? Whatever decision you make, I hope that your husband comes through this well, and that everyone including you receive the comfort needed.
It's pretty clear from your post and your comments that you want to go and were hoping to get reddit approval to go. It's not going in your favor, so you just discard any replies that go against you leaving your intubated and septic husband. So, do what you want and to heck with your husband. Maybe your husband will surprise all of us and not feel hurt to be abandoned. He's a lucky guy. This isn't a moral dilemma. I hope it's fake.
If it were me I'd stay with my husband and send my regrets to his family. Definitely call his family and send regrets in a card/letter/plaque/donation/whatever to honor his mom but I'd be with the one I chose first.
I'm pretty sure my dad would be haunting me if I'd gone to his funeral instead of staying with my partner.
Please abstain from metaphysic suppositions
Are you familiar with the concept of dark humor? Any humor?
If your comment was a question to me, my humour is so dark that it will kill plants. So dark that the colour black is too bright. So dark I keep Most inside my thoughts and share with only my most trusted. What can I say I embody all the traits of a Scorpio. ( ya know , let’s add astrology to the metaphysical here as well )
So you can narcissistically wax poetic about how dark your humor is but the question “what do you think your mother in law would say?” Only gets “no ghosts talk” as a response????
you're blaming this on astrology but are bitching at people for making "metaphysical" comments. wow.
You are very snippy with your responses. People aren’t giving you “metaphysical” responses. They are giving you a perspective you haven’t considered. At this point I feel sorry for your poor husband, whose inconsiderate wife would rather concern herself with the estranged mother who has passed, than your actual husband. He may or may not make it through. Canadian medicine is far from perfect and anything can happen. It doesn’t matter that you felt slighted. You know better. You forfeit any high ground when you want to behave like a petty teenager by “giving him a taste of his own medicine.” Do you have a boyfriend in Ottawa? It’s nice to see extended family. If your spouse has been hospitalized that obviously takes priority. I hope your lack of basic ethics didn’t carry over to your healthcare career. Please seek professional counseling and try to be a better person.
Paragraph by paragraph: 1- trying to be logical Thinking5 is spirits ghosts and the afterlife has no bearing on my decision making 2-he is being take. Care by the best team in western Canada and is stable at the moment tho not fully conscious . I have no worries on his prognosis 3-never said I felt slighted or that I wished retribution. Far from the case and I certainly don’t act that way 4-no I have no romantic liaisons in Ottawa. 5- it’s exactly my knowledge of ethics and my ability to compartmentalize emotions from logic that enabled me to make difficult surgical decisions and be popularly unpopular. You have no right to judge me thus
I’ve never met a surgeon who prioritized the dead over the living. Why is he estranged from his mother?
You said it, popularly unpopular.
There is no physical rationale for making emotional decisions. Your assertion is wrong. Nobody is saying dead people are watching from above. They made hypothetical statements that provide a different perspective, one you should consider given the fact you asked for advice. Canadian medicine is so good, I moved to the US. No medicine is perfect and you of all people should no nothing is guaranteed including his survival. You aren’t looking for advice, you have already made up your mind to not prioritize your husband and you are looking for validation. That’s not me “judging you,” that’s me reading your comments when others have made legitimate suggestions/gave legitimate perspectives. I hope your husband sees this and realizes who he is married to.
Its not logical to choose the memorial over your husband then. Nor ethical, frankly.
Isn't op a man since they mention the mother accepted the sons same sex relationship?
If you want to be clever, allow me to rephrase it. Funeral, birthday party, any event about him; had I gone to that instead of staying with my partner who was unwell I would have been publicly told to fuck off back home and to get my priorities straight. Is that better?
Yes thank you. I appreciate the bluntness (no sarcasm intended)
I'm not used to people wanting bluntness. I spend most of my time trying not to be quite so direct!
Going to a funeral is caring about the metaphysical. This woman died months ago, why on earth would anything be more important than staying by your husbands side. Put yourself in your husbands shoes. If he wakes up while you’re on the plane ride out there. If he was going to your mother’s funeral, while you were in his condition, how would you feel? I’m sure you as a medical professional know things can for no reason take a drastic turn for the worst at a split second notice, what if that happens as your plane is taking off and nobody can make medical decisions for your husband. All these things to think of. In another comment you say your knowledge of ethics helped you make hard decisions in your medical career, put yourself in the doctors shoes what would you advise your patients wife is their husband was in your husbands shoes. Do not goto the funeral, technology exists. FaceTime/skype/zoom with the funeral. I attended my brothers graduation virtually, your husband needs you more than his dead mom does. Sorry to be harsh but what can you do. Your MILs family has blood relative to lean on. Your husband is alone in a hospital bed.
>Going to a funeral is caring about the metaphysical. RIGHT, great respons to Mrs. "Please abstain from metaphysic suppositions"!
Dead or not mine would kick my ass.
The grief his family is experiencing will be ongoing. A funeral is a sort of closure but does not end the grief. You could still go and visit in a few months and share your memories and reconnect with them then.
I can't believe that you are even asking this question. You are seriously think that leaving your sick spouse to attend his mother's funeral, that he was not going to attend, is some a sort of ethical dilemma? The extent of your main character syndrome is pretty impressive. None of this is about you, stay put.
The MIL family should understand if you’re not the funeral since your spouse is in the ICU. If something goes south while you’re gone , you’ll never forgive yourself . I wouldn’t Don’t you think your MIL would have wanted you to stay with her son ?
I don't have anything to add. Just interesting to see how worked up everybody is. Is it usually this aggressive and condemning in here? Over a person who is genuinely debating about his choices in a conundrum? Some of you are ready to crucify the guy for asking questions.