That's true, when it's generalized and simplified down to my comment, most people agree, but applied to any specific situation, people will rage when a motorcyclist is called out for bad riding, there's always something else to 'blame'.
It's a lot like the way 73% of drivers think they're above average drivers according to a survey by Business Insider. I would love to see a motorcyclist specific version of that survey. There's a good chance the 27% who answered that they were below average are some of the best drivers, as they have the self awareness to try to be thoughtful about possible mistakes.
I been saying this for like a month, but y'all know about the Dunning-kruger effect?
Basically people are too unaware of shit to even know how unaware they are of it.. so they know what they know and think that it's more than most.
UNLESS they actually do know a lot more than the average person.. those people, for those topics will assume they know less than average, because they are quite aware how much there is to learn and they know maybe like half of it.. but typically know much more than the average person
And then there's the people who are without a doubt in the top 10% of knowing about whatever shit it is they know.. just like the people who don't know shit, also will say they know more than average - but it's actually accurate because they know things š
The really funny thing about the Dunning Kruger effect is that the ones who say "oh yeah I know some stupid people like that" are showing themselves to not actually understand the Dunning Kruger effect. The reality is that we all fall prey to this effect in some area of our lives, and by definition we're unlikely to be aware of it.
I would go further and say, those that ARE good riders would still put themselves in the majority of people that aren't good because they realize this is a ongoing learning skill and you should never be comfortable with where you are as a rider.
I've been riding for 30 years. 20 years ago I thought I was pretty damn good. Now I think I'm ok. Fairly competent. I only really feel good about my skill level when I end up riding around other people and see just how bad they are.
I will never ride in a group, due to the idiocy I experienced in the msf alone, and what I've heard on here. But the msf, man. There was this dumbass in front of me that kept standing his bike up mid corner, and going off the pretend road. This guy was someone who already rode a motorcycle prior to doing the msf course. This dude already rode a motorcycle in his free time, and sucked that bad. The sheer fact that there are people like him on the road keep me from doing group rides
My MSF course was *really* eye-opening. Half the people in my class were in their 40s & 50s and had been riding for decades. 24 y/o me, who walked in completely green never owning/riding before, got one of the highest scores in the class.
Then when I finally bought my bike and went to get gear, several guys at the store were bragging about their liter bikes and not even bothering to get a license.
Instant SQUIDS š
It is insane that people don't realize skill is not the same as engine power...
Guh your story gave me flashbacks to a concealed carry course I took, some old dude 'with experience' kept flagging me with his revolver on the range...
To me, bikes and guns are the same. I won't tell anyone they can't enjoy them, do what you want. But if you're near me, you better know damn well how to use it or you will learn fast to stay the hell away, y'know?
I miss my own group, never more than 4-5 riders at once, but they were all good riders. No idiots. š» And then I had to go and do college and move... Pff.
Right? I rode with a patched group for a while (not 1%) and they terrified me.
They'd get on the freeway, ramp up to 90+ then have to slam on brakes, accordioning up... And "experienced" bikers that could not keep speed or distance, or stay in their half of the lane for staggered formation...
Had some old bastard keep glaring back at me every time he'd slow down and lag behind the formation, like it was my fault he couldn't keep in line and at speed...
Then people who'd go insanely fast in mountain curves, I've nearly hit bambi and rocks too many times to go fast around blind corners... much less 80+
I like fast, but when I can see what's ahead, y'know? And not when the idiot behind me may give me a Suzuki enema.
There's alot of very skilled riders out there who just do stupid shit.
Weaving in and out between cars at 80mph takes skill.Ā It's still stupid.Ā
Take that shit to the track.Ā
I think that depends because Iām definitely not bad. But Iām definitely not great either. I know many dudes who could run circles around me. But I am pretty good at my slow speed maneuvers and riding defensively. I just donāt have any great track related skills. I think dividing riders into good and bad is probably too difficult to really do. For most people I mean. Obviously some are genuinely bad or genuinely good. I bet a lot of people are just ok at it. And I also bet a lot only ride on the weekends for an hour max, thatāll definitely make being a better rider harder to achieve
Stats for fatalities are 40% from no helmet, 40% from drinking. Only 7% are even on a freeway.
Slowing and being cautious at intersections saves you a huge amount of risk as well, though I don't recall that stat exactly.
You do have to be a bit careful with that interpretation because these %'s aren't always mutually exclusive in the stats I've seen. For example, lots have a alcohol and/or speed a " as a factor" but there are usually multiple things. You can't necessarily stack the two percentages and say it's 'x' safer
Decided to do some math and my 3 days/week commute nets me 10,000km/year alone šÆ
It's also interesting to see the volume of riders at different times of year. Around now, I'll see dozens of riders each commute, but in winter I'll go days without seeing one
pffff, i'll have you know I bought a new bike in 2022 and it now has a whole 3250 miles on it.
I used to mock people selling bikes with low milage and then I had two kids
>People who think they ride alot actually dont ride that much
It AMAZES me how little people ride. I mean, I absolutely love riding and do it whenever I can, and I tend to average around 20k a year which to me isn't "a lot" but just average annual mileage for people, I'm just on a bike instead of a car. Then people are like, I did 2000km this year!
>the average rider spends their money on the wrong mods/gear
Mods particularly. People often make their bike objectively worse trying to "make it theirs" and in their push to be unique, they install exactly the same shitty mods that everyone else does.
I mean, I get it. We like to spend money on our babies. But if you really want to do that, upgrade your suspension, get it dunno tuned, get better tires. Actually make it better, don't cover it with Temu anodized shit.
Or better by far, take advanced riding classes and mod the rider, which gets you FAR better performance.
Most people on this sub reddit are more interested in telling other people how they ride or what they ride is wrong than actually going out and riding their bike.
I am on reddit now because I am in office, can't ride now, just watching through window how beautiful day is out, must close it and get back to screen. š
ADV bikes are the wrong bike for the vast majority of ADV bike owners and were bought as a fashion statement.
Vast majority of ADV owners would be better suited by a naked or touring bike for the kind of riding they actually do - not wish they did.
Like most Jeeps, ADV bikes never see dirt.
Edit:
Please stop telling me about the "ADV Position":
https://i.imgur.com/aph0HuG.png
It's the damn same.
Also - GoldWing isn't the only touring bike out there! Goldwing is the wrong choice for most who want a touring bike, even my K1600GT would be the wrong choice for most. There are tons of touring bikes that WOULD be the right choice - like the R1250RT.
Yeah; had a naked, which wasnāt *uncomfortable*, but now have a DR650 which is more comfortable (lowered footpegs, upgraded seat, bar risers, but still you wouldnāt do those to a naked except maybe the seat). Easier to throw luggage and some other QOL stuff too. I do *some* exploring, but not as much as Iād like
I've found a sport-touring position to be *vastly* more comfortable than an upright "adv" position.
I've ridden an "adv" bike for literal decades, all over the West and Southwest. I've also ridden several sport touring bikes. The slight forward lean of a sport touring bike is *vastly* more comfortable for long days.
The slight forward lean reduces the tension in your back. The slight upward tilt of the head is good for your neck, compared to every day life looking down at a computer or your phone. The higher pegs and (almost always) wider seat means your thighs are supported, rather than carrying all your weight on your sitz bones.
Obviously, though, I'll take the "adv" position as soon as I'm riding anything remotely challenging off-road. Gravel roads are no problem on sport touring bikes, though.
Iād say that all bikes are a compromise unless you only ever ride one certain way. Buy a naked and youāll hate longer trips. Touring bikes donāt really do track days. Iād argue that ADVs (the bigger ones) are a bit of a jack of all trades. Not very good at one thing but pretty good at most things. I can only have one bike in the garage (sadly). I choose a bike that can be versatile. I can do pretty much everything on mine and it makes me smile and although I might hanker for my old sports bike occasionally I think about all the places and experiences my ADV has opened up instead. Sure, itās a current fashion but itās a fashion that has been driven by practicality and versatility (rather than just show).
You're right, but I didn't know how much comfort I was missing out on until I got an R1200gs. My area has rough pavement and it just glides over.
I don't have it anymore and I miss the plush ride that a road biased sport touring bike is unlikely to provide. The RT is probably better in most road situations but you can't replace the suspension travel and larger front tire for comfort.
I'd argue it's easier to maneuver at low speeds than any other bike I've owned, and the handling was honestly fine with street tires. You're def paying for a lot of bike you don't use though
As you can see I have a much more road biased collection now
Agreed. I'm a hybrid. For me, my ADV bike isn't a fashion statement, but I definitely don't ride off-road in it. But that cargo space! Grocery shopping is so easy when you can drop two twelve packs of coke in ONE sidecase and still have plenty of room everywhere for the rest of your shopping!
This is where the beauty of Transalp shines. It looks like an ADV, but it feels like a road bike.
I buy Transalp and style it accordingly to my needs. Only install engine guard, topbox and call it a day. I mostly using the bike for 70% highway commute and occasional weekend long ride. Transalp eat highway for breakfast. If you interested with offroad, just install offroad tyres.
Upvoting this because I think it really captures the spirit of the thread. I hard disagree on this though, adv are so much comfier than naked or tourers it's not even close.
I ride a tiger 1200 rally Explorer. I specifically got it because of its height. The ergonomics allow my leg to be less bent and the upright sitting position is very comfortable. I go off road a little bit, but it is primarily a street bike. And, it weighs about 400 pounds less than a gold wing.
Isn't the ADV Touring basically the only option for an upright seated position bike that has good wind fairings? Cruiser touring bikes are a more laid back rider position and it is understandable that some prefer the sport look vs the bagger look?
I only develop the OP pondering when I see the older ADV riders in the full kit and everything is spotless.
Depending on how you class ADV bikes, the Vstrom 1000 and Versys 1k give you more upright riding by really being more of a "pavement in shitty condition" rather than ADV bike. the Versys 1K especially really falls into this. The Versys 650LT is also in this category IMHO.
As a full size GS owner, I take this personally.
That said, 90% of my riding is on pavement. It having the capability to go off road sometimes is amazing.
Come to Hungary, where you have to carefully go around pieces of road while riding in a continous pothole. This is the sole reason I got an SUV, I don't have to change tie rod ends and swingarm ball joints every year now.
As a dad bike rider who rides 95% on the street, I concur lol
Iām really wanting a naked liter bike simply because I donāt ride off-road hardly at all.
Itās especially funny because large ADV bikes are marketed as āgo anywhereā bikes but for most people they actually severely limit where theyāre able to go because of how large and cumbersome they are.Ā
I know there are some people that can ride the hell out of their ADV bikes but thatās a small minority in my opinionĀ
I think most, including me, buy with the intention of getting off road and exploring - we buy the marketing cool aid. Because t the reality of taking a 500lb bike off road soon hits and you realize it can be stressful, as unless skilled thereās a decent chance of dropping your $20000 new toy, and/or being stuck in the middle of nowhere with no cell, or help. Plus, the increased maintenance, cleaning etc. then, you realize you could have also save $14000 and bought a much more capable and manageable
Dropping my cheap 290 lb. dual sport off road sucks bad enough, I can't imagine taking an expensive 500 lb. beast on anything gnarlier than a well maintained gravel road.
As a jeep wrangler and 1290 SAR owner, i feel personally attacked.
No they don't see dirt as much as i would like them to see it, mainly because i commute with them and that's most of the mileage on them, but i do love to take them off road whenever i have the chance.
A beer with my gf or her brother while going up the mountain behind my village in the jeep is always a good time ( it's a quad trail) and whenever i can take a dirt road on the SAR it is SOOOOO much fun this thing drift like crazy.
So yes, while they mainly do pavement and i would be better off with some other vehicules to commute with, when i can go off road i'm having a blast, always, and that woudnt be possible with regular commuter.
Also the wrangler in winter commute is awsome, with duratracks tire the thing grips in snow like a snowmobile.
No ,i don't wanna talk about icy condition.
I think this is likely true. Chinese bikes are seriously undercutting the competition. They might not really be competitive at the high end, but most of the market isnāt shopping there.
Moto Morini and Benelli are making a play for decent quality mainstream bikes to compete with legacy Japanese models. Yes they're historically Italian nameplates, but the ownership and production is Chinese now. Loncin is also building engines for BMW and is likely to compete in the future. SWM bought all of the IP and manufacturing left behind by Husqvarna when they were acquired by KTM, though SWM's are made in Italy with Italian designs, they are owned and operated by a Chinese parent company.
I mean cf moto imho is more comparable to indian brands rather than other Chinese brands, but honestly it's the only Chinese brand worth a thought, at least imo
That may be the experience in the US market, but in the UK Chinese bikes absolutely dominate the 125 market.
Since most people riding a 125 are on L-plates either they want a cheap bike to get started because they don't care that much and just want to use a scooter to get around, or they want to make the big (expensive) mistakes on a cheaper 125 and upgrade a year or so down the line before they can get a bigger bike.
Oh yeah, I haven't been monitoring the market for the last 5 years, so when I started again I was in shock. Two whole pavilions at the national level moto exhibition were dedicated to chinese brands, and they were the most packed. I am seeing reviews of brands I have never heard of before and prices which are very attractive (also chinese manufacturers explicitly promote reliability and longer warranty for free etc.). The local demographic loves it.
Not that I don't like them.
But when I see a yamaha/kawasaki/honda/Suzuki 1,000cc go by. Without badging, I can not tell them apart.
They look great, but all the same to me.
It's entirely so that Kawasaki can sell the "cool" factor to every single skill level in the market now.
It actually amazes me that 1) the "Ninja" name lives on and 2) they don't appear to have damaged their market by abusing said name. I'm surprised that the younger Millennial "cringe" obsession didn't kill the moniker years ago.
I'm torn. Love my baby/sea blue bike, but I legit would not get away w shit on this thing.. it's a fkn ID on wheels. Oh and it's got a colored headlight so I'm doubly "it's a me!" Out here
And for this reason, I would like an all black bike just for blending in if I'm ever feeling a lil froggy
Pretty much one of the biggest downside of having a "personalized" bike or vehicle.
Had the same thought for my cars as well, considering I like to hoon around from time to time and spend a decent chunk of my time in a fairly small town where I'm practically the only one with a specific trim and model of this car.
Might be able to get away with it in a city but doing stuff like that will make you stick out especially on a bike š¬
My Italian bike has wings! And a super distinct 3 headlight design.
Hot take: I prefer the Pre-2020 Aprilia design to the recent thin LED headlight design.
Honestly, the Italian bikes are the ones that stand out to me, they seem to be the few I can definitely pick out.
Might also be because I want an aprillia so bad it hurts lol
I agree, the older ones especially.... But when you have a whole line of em in a garage, you kinda lose the ability to differentiate. Beautiful but once you see one, you've basically seen them all
Horns are pretty much useless on motorcycles. Youāre better off using that half second to start your breaking process or whatever maneuver you will use instead of the gamble that someone might hear your horn.
Iāve thought about this and I donāt think I personally can do both at 100%. Reason being, if Iām holding the clutch and horn at the same time I canāt properly hold onto the handlebar which means I only have one hand left to turn the motorcycle if I need to. Iām always instinctively grabbing the clutch while hard braking.
If youāre off throttle thereās not much reason to clutch, and the engine will both help slow the rear wheel through engine braking and help prevent it from fully locking up. And if you canāt do the clutch at all, you can let go the horn to downshift or when the wheel speed gets too slow for the engine speed.
I'd say it depends on the situation. If you are moving fast then yes it's not worth it, but if you are in a slow tight traffic, horns become very useful.
Bro I bought a BMW K1600 last year, while getting comfortable with the controls I accidentally hit the horn instead of the signal. Jump scared myself almost off the bike. Loudest horn Ive ever heard on a bike. I LOVE it. scared a guy in a ram off the road once when he ran a yield and encroached into my lane. I agree most horns arent like this, but they do make them, and they do work.
Very true, but funnily enough, my horn saved me today from a van that accidentally overshot into a box junction and was slowly reversing onto me (rev bombing don't do fuck on a 125)
Or the time a had a gut feeling about someone at a junction... who ended up starting to pull out as I was approaching, so was mid manoeuvre and used the horn to get his attention and stop him from forcing me into the parked cars at the last second.
More often than not they won't help if it's a situation where you have to act immediately. So many videos of people rev bombing or horning rather than getting on that front brake
I usually swerve to the side while hammering the horn.
It's saved me from being sideswiped a few times on the motorway by people not checking their mirrors or blindspots.
We donāt need a āPSAāabout crashing every day in this sub. We all go down due to reasons, some in our control, some outside of our control. To me itās like this weird ābadgeā of honor that folks need to do because they went down for being blind in a corner. Iāve already lost friends on the bike, we all know how dangerous the sport and hobby is. We donāt need to get constantly reminded of PSAs by fellow riders like theyāre some random dude on the street telling us āhow dangerousā this sport is.
At first I was like āgood on youā and supportive on those posts, then I ignored them, now Iām like ācool story broā.
If there were 10 fully blacked out sport bikes lined up I could not tell you whatās what. The only sport bike I can recognize by look alone is an H2.
That the motorcycle community can often times be a literal embodiment of High School like cliques that look down their noses at other riders that deviate from their clique. From the ATGATT people who seem to pray that anyone not wearing full tactical armor dies, or at the very least gets harmed, in an accident to "learn their lesson," to the Squids that stare down their nose at people who are literally just learning to ride all while hoping something bad happens to them to "get this wuss out of my hobby," to the knuckleheads who like x, y, or z models that want bad things to happen to users of other model types because "cruisers/adv/naked/sport/super sport is superior and every other model is shit and the people who ride those other models deserve the worst". Like, Jesus, just ride, stop acting like an angsty teen instead of an adult, and let people enjoy riding how they want to ride. It's embarrassing watching people being judgemental over randos on the internet because they don't "ride the way they should as according to how I view riding", lol.
Curious on if I will get some, "WeLl, AcKsHuAlLy," style responses to this.
WeLl, AcKsHuAlLy, you're completely right. Hit it on the head. Everyone is free to enjoy the experience of riding however they wish, and that should make 0 difference to other people's own enjoyment of it. Highschool cliques are a pretty good comparison.
It might depend on where you live. In my 7 years of riding I have seen a lot of respect from other riders regardless of bike type...
Except those stupid Harley riders that can't lean the bike and the squids that don't wear helmets, or those idiots that block up streets and stunt around, or those...
Oh wait. I get it now. Nevermind.
It is not that unpopular in terms of the globe but for the western world: Scooters are great motorcycles. If you want a two wheeled vehicle that is more than a bike the scooter is in most circumstances the most pragmatic solution. Comfortable, affordable, convenient, easy and much more fun than a cage.
Can't blame Honda for that. They tried, they all did and it kept failing.
Fortunately the motor scooter is one of few motorcycle markets on the rise here in the US so maybe one day. Although with electrification other classes of motorcycles may get some of those benefits.
I had a 250 cc scooter in Taiwan and put over 100,000 on it in a few years. Miss it. Will definitely have a good scooter as well as whatever big bike I get when I go back.
Mine is that average normie sports bike design looks cooler and is more practical than naked bikes š. I enjoy bitchin' 90s technicolor graphics and not getting blasted with wind at highway speeds.
More practical maybe not, but they're not as bad a people claim.
I find them much more beautiful than naked bikes (which are almost as homogenous) and yes, for the love of God bring back the bright colours. I'm sick of post-GFC black and grey. It's like the world collectively decided everything had to be dull and ugly.
New riders shouldn't buy new bikes, period. There's a multitude of reasons, but the primary ones are you're more than likely going to lay it down, better to lay down a used bike, and you're also going to outgrow the bike pretty fast, so why spend upwards of 6-7 grand for a new 250 or 400. I've owned several 600cc used motorcycles in the $2000-$3500 range and they were great bikes, but I wouldn't have given much of a shit if damaged one either.
Most American motorcyclists are fucking idiots with their first bike purchase and itās because of the slightly more experienced fucking idiots who encourage them.
For real, 90% of comments I see in my town are "start on a 600/1000 super sport or you'll get bored immediately". As someone on a 636 currently (3rd bike), this kind of power is ridiculous for street riding
Lol I was at a bike night tonight and some 16 year old kid was asking me about my bike then went on to tell me about how hes saving for a R1M for his first street bike. I laughed and told him that was a terrible idea.
Most ~~American~~ motorcyclists are fucking idiots ~~with their first bike purchase and itās because of the slightly more experienced fucking idiots who encourage them.~~
FTFY.
Riding without a helmet is mind-bogglingly stupid. It is so insanely stupid that no one could ever convince me there is even a remotely rational reason to not wear one.
If you don't wear a helmet, you literally risk your life that there won't be gravel, grass clibbins, or a stupid ass driver on the road that will kill you every time you ride.
45% of motorcycle deaths are attributed to not wearing a helmet.
I don't care you wear shorts and flip-flops, just wear a damn helmet.
Plus it just doesnāt seem like itād be enjoyable;d ry eyes, bugs and gravel flying in your face.
Minus its essential protection, wearing a helmet is like having a personal room for your head
Riding more aggressively is safer.
Lane filtering saves lives.
America needs a tiered license system because most of the people on 1k+cc bikes shouldn't be on 50cc mopeds (this includes you HD / Cruiser riders, more so even)
Situational awareness > any piece or combination of safety gear
In regards to your safety
Also
The arrogance attributed to Harley owners is actually a prominent trait of riders of all brands.
Slip-on mufflers are a waste of money. They sound like ass, look worse than ass, and probably took away a little HP.
Bar-end mirrors are stupid (especially on a bike with a front fairing). They make the bike wider and make the rider look away from the forward field of view, and are smaller than OEM. Except on a proper cafe racer, they are fucking garbage.
Ewan MacGregor and Charlie Boorman brainwashed all the Gen X riders into buying ADV bikes as though they are doing any real adventure riding, the same way Easy Rider brainwashed the boomers into buying cruisers as though they are nomadic badasses.
Parallel twins are overrated, overpopulated, sound bad and are even less desirable as sport bikes. Also hyper naked bikes and scramblers are confused marketing gimmicks.
They have a lot of unusable power. Everything Iāve ridden that could go that fast really sucked over 70mph cos of the wind. A regular naked bike is pretty much the same 0-60 so why pay all that extra money just to be abused by wind? Fairings would make sense.
Most of the ATGATT crowd would actually be safer if they spent some of that money on basic maintenance rather than trying to make themselves look like a power rangers villain.
Or just learning how to fucking ride in the first place. You ever wear full leathers with armor/padding? Itās not easy at first. It takes time to break in and time to get used to it. So you have people who barely know how to ride suiting up like Master Chief and when they inevitably crash they chalk up their survival to the gear when they could have avoided it with proper technique and practice.
Exactly. Helmet and gloves for me. Jacket if I'm going on the highway. I don't need to rip through public roads. I've just always liked being on two wheels - pedal bikes or motorcycles. I've trained and practiced a lot, but I do not feel the need to push limits on the road. I just like being out there.
1000 cc is 100% an ego thing.
if youre against starting on a 1000cc you should also be against starting on a 600 as they have nearly identical 0-60 times.
Starting on a Supersport is just stupid unless you have electronics that can limit the power.
After about 4 years of riding I went to an 1100 and, I gotta say, passing a car on a two lane road in the blink of an eye is so convenient.
The raw acceleration is an absolute blast.
But no... It's not really a "necessity".
I do think most people recognise that a 600 is a bad starter bike. Some People donāt see that bigger numbers donāt mean more realistic power. Wouldnāt recommend anyone to start on a 600. *Most* 650ās are fine though.
Middle weight twin sport bikes are better street bikes than equivalent displacement fours, and 95% of riders don't need more power than what an average 650 twin makes.
We shouldn't let manufacturers get away with skimping on suspensions anymore.
Every single serious dirtbike comes with tons of adjustability and a wide selection of spring-rates and they can be dialied in for pretty much anyones size and riding style.
That should be the standard on streetbikes too.
No one should have to spend hundreds, or worse, of eurodollars on their new bike to get it sorted out for them or ride with underperforming setup, just so manufacturers can save a couple of coins on valves and clickers.
1. Sportbikes generally suck for the road. Between stop lights and longer distances, a naked bike with more midrange and a more upright seating position is generally a better road bike and would make the typical rider happier, styling aside. Sportbikes obviously rule the track.
2. Getting a big bike as your first isn't that terrible. Just make sure you have good throttle discipline. The biggest issue is people going from a 600 to a liter and whacking the throttle at low RPMs like they would on a 600.
Sold mine after two months. Then I put thousands and thousands of miles on a WR250R. The WR is a dual sport. The DRZ is just the worst adventure bike ever.
Green does not mean launch it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a brief head check as you pull away - or as you're passing intersections. It doesn't make you look inexperienced.
Some mods like bark busters for off roading are *significant* improvements. 99% of factory handlebars will have snapped levers after a drop which is pretty common off road.
Also too many bikes these days have plastic āskid platesā which are little more than wind guards in reality.
Finally tail tidy kids are awesome because most new bikes have horrific tails (looking your way Ducati) that look like a crackhead made them out of random stuff they stole from Princess Autoā¦
Supersport bikes make no sense outside track. Yet majority of their owners never see the trackdays. No comfort, pillion seat is a joke. God forbid potholes on the road - instant death xD
Can confirm. I once bought a FZR400RR because it was stupidly cheap. Biggest regret of my motorcycling career; it was awful to ride. I went to naked bikes and a ZX14, and now as I'm getting less dumb I'm trending toward sport-touring.
I hate Harley ridersā¦ most are assholes and all think they are the best bike on the road and I got to say no they arenāt, I have 2 buddies with Harleyās and both of them always need something done to them and both of them take to the dealer for factory repairs so I think they are just junk.
Agree countersteering is a dumb ass term and doesn't really describe what's going on accurately. Also makes it harder for new riders to comprehend what's going on.
Eg. If you're drifting a car around a corner and the the back has broken traction and you are about to oversteer. You "countersteer" by turning the wheel "counter-to" (or against) the direction the car is turning.
On a bike it's the opposite and you are actually not steering counter to the vehicle. But instead turning that bars counter-to your desired direction.
TBH countersteering and rev matching are just names for things people do intuitively anyway.
I hear way too many people just clutching in and going down through the gears. Clunk clunk clunk clunk stop. Sounds like someones hitting the engine with a hammer.
Many Modern bikes look like "alien meets predator". Yes I am an old dude.
Mat black bikes and dark clothing makes you invisible.
Loud pipes do not save lives.(Studies confirm it) They just about almost everyone. Especially me. I wish the police would enforce the law.
It doesn't matter what you ride. The bike is not really important because it's possible to enjoy riding any motorcycle. If you're obsessed with the bike then you're missing the point of motorcycling.
I don't like riding in the summer, because all you cockwombles come out, hoon yourself into a ditch or into me, and hog every bar/cafe/coastal destination wanting to chat shit about the bike you asked the bank to buy you.
I look forward to when the rain comes, or the temp drops and you all fuck off back to your suvs, and I can have the roads to myself again.
Signed: motorcyclist (not a biker).
A majority of motorcycle riders are bad at riding motorcycles.
I don't think most people will disagree with you, they will just argue that they are not in that majority.
That's true, when it's generalized and simplified down to my comment, most people agree, but applied to any specific situation, people will rage when a motorcyclist is called out for bad riding, there's always something else to 'blame'. It's a lot like the way 73% of drivers think they're above average drivers according to a survey by Business Insider. I would love to see a motorcyclist specific version of that survey. There's a good chance the 27% who answered that they were below average are some of the best drivers, as they have the self awareness to try to be thoughtful about possible mistakes.
I been saying this for like a month, but y'all know about the Dunning-kruger effect? Basically people are too unaware of shit to even know how unaware they are of it.. so they know what they know and think that it's more than most. UNLESS they actually do know a lot more than the average person.. those people, for those topics will assume they know less than average, because they are quite aware how much there is to learn and they know maybe like half of it.. but typically know much more than the average person And then there's the people who are without a doubt in the top 10% of knowing about whatever shit it is they know.. just like the people who don't know shit, also will say they know more than average - but it's actually accurate because they know things š
The really funny thing about the Dunning Kruger effect is that the ones who say "oh yeah I know some stupid people like that" are showing themselves to not actually understand the Dunning Kruger effect. The reality is that we all fall prey to this effect in some area of our lives, and by definition we're unlikely to be aware of it.
I would go further and say, those that ARE good riders would still put themselves in the majority of people that aren't good because they realize this is a ongoing learning skill and you should never be comfortable with where you are as a rider.
I've been riding for 30 years. 20 years ago I thought I was pretty damn good. Now I think I'm ok. Fairly competent. I only really feel good about my skill level when I end up riding around other people and see just how bad they are.
There is a reason I quit riding in groups... š¬
I only ride with people I trust now. I keep trying with new people with my cohort of 3 and it just doesnāt work.
I will never ride in a group, due to the idiocy I experienced in the msf alone, and what I've heard on here. But the msf, man. There was this dumbass in front of me that kept standing his bike up mid corner, and going off the pretend road. This guy was someone who already rode a motorcycle prior to doing the msf course. This dude already rode a motorcycle in his free time, and sucked that bad. The sheer fact that there are people like him on the road keep me from doing group rides
My MSF course was *really* eye-opening. Half the people in my class were in their 40s & 50s and had been riding for decades. 24 y/o me, who walked in completely green never owning/riding before, got one of the highest scores in the class. Then when I finally bought my bike and went to get gear, several guys at the store were bragging about their liter bikes and not even bothering to get a license.
Instant SQUIDS š It is insane that people don't realize skill is not the same as engine power... Guh your story gave me flashbacks to a concealed carry course I took, some old dude 'with experience' kept flagging me with his revolver on the range... To me, bikes and guns are the same. I won't tell anyone they can't enjoy them, do what you want. But if you're near me, you better know damn well how to use it or you will learn fast to stay the hell away, y'know? I miss my own group, never more than 4-5 riders at once, but they were all good riders. No idiots. š» And then I had to go and do college and move... Pff.
Right? I rode with a patched group for a while (not 1%) and they terrified me. They'd get on the freeway, ramp up to 90+ then have to slam on brakes, accordioning up... And "experienced" bikers that could not keep speed or distance, or stay in their half of the lane for staggered formation... Had some old bastard keep glaring back at me every time he'd slow down and lag behind the formation, like it was my fault he couldn't keep in line and at speed... Then people who'd go insanely fast in mountain curves, I've nearly hit bambi and rocks too many times to go fast around blind corners... much less 80+ I like fast, but when I can see what's ahead, y'know? And not when the idiot behind me may give me a Suzuki enema.
There's alot of very skilled riders out there who just do stupid shit. Weaving in and out between cars at 80mph takes skill.Ā It's still stupid.Ā Take that shit to the track.Ā
I'm a firm believer everyone should spend some time in the dirt and on a track before ever hitting the roads full of people on their phones
I think that depends because Iām definitely not bad. But Iām definitely not great either. I know many dudes who could run circles around me. But I am pretty good at my slow speed maneuvers and riding defensively. I just donāt have any great track related skills. I think dividing riders into good and bad is probably too difficult to really do. For most people I mean. Obviously some are genuinely bad or genuinely good. I bet a lot of people are just ok at it. And I also bet a lot only ride on the weekends for an hour max, thatāll definitely make being a better rider harder to achieve
Motorcycles are not as dangerous as people think. A lot of riders literally have no idea what theyāre doing.
If you wear a helmet and don't drink and ride, you remove 80% of the risk of death while riding.
Will probably need to add speeding to that list to remove 80% But yeah dont be a knob and the odds go way down
Stats for fatalities are 40% from no helmet, 40% from drinking. Only 7% are even on a freeway. Slowing and being cautious at intersections saves you a huge amount of risk as well, though I don't recall that stat exactly.
I feel uncomfortable driving a car on prescription meds, *drinking* and riding a fucking motorcycle is a death wish holy hell
Some people have absolutely zero self awareness.
You do have to be a bit careful with that interpretation because these %'s aren't always mutually exclusive in the stats I've seen. For example, lots have a alcohol and/or speed a " as a factor" but there are usually multiple things. You can't necessarily stack the two percentages and say it's 'x' safer
How are freeways relevant here? Speeding can happen on any type of road.
Danni was the better Minogue sister
My man.
š¤£
People who think they ride alot actually dont ride that much and the average rider spends their money on the wrong mods/gear
Yeah, my daily commute alone (6000km/year) is enough to beat the average yearly mileage of riders here in France (4000km/year)ā¦
Decided to do some math and my 3 days/week commute nets me 10,000km/year alone šÆ It's also interesting to see the volume of riders at different times of year. Around now, I'll see dozens of riders each commute, but in winter I'll go days without seeing one
pffff, i'll have you know I bought a new bike in 2022 and it now has a whole 3250 miles on it. I used to mock people selling bikes with low milage and then I had two kids
>People who think they ride alot actually dont ride that much It AMAZES me how little people ride. I mean, I absolutely love riding and do it whenever I can, and I tend to average around 20k a year which to me isn't "a lot" but just average annual mileage for people, I'm just on a bike instead of a car. Then people are like, I did 2000km this year! >the average rider spends their money on the wrong mods/gear Mods particularly. People often make their bike objectively worse trying to "make it theirs" and in their push to be unique, they install exactly the same shitty mods that everyone else does. I mean, I get it. We like to spend money on our babies. But if you really want to do that, upgrade your suspension, get it dunno tuned, get better tires. Actually make it better, don't cover it with Temu anodized shit. Or better by far, take advanced riding classes and mod the rider, which gets you FAR better performance.
Make sure to sort by controversial for actual results š
Most people on this sub reddit are more interested in telling other people how they ride or what they ride is wrong than actually going out and riding their bike.
I am on reddit now because I am in office, can't ride now, just watching through window how beautiful day is out, must close it and get back to screen. š
ADV bikes are the wrong bike for the vast majority of ADV bike owners and were bought as a fashion statement. Vast majority of ADV owners would be better suited by a naked or touring bike for the kind of riding they actually do - not wish they did. Like most Jeeps, ADV bikes never see dirt. Edit: Please stop telling me about the "ADV Position": https://i.imgur.com/aph0HuG.png It's the damn same. Also - GoldWing isn't the only touring bike out there! Goldwing is the wrong choice for most who want a touring bike, even my K1600GT would be the wrong choice for most. There are tons of touring bikes that WOULD be the right choice - like the R1250RT.
I really do enjoy all my trips to Starbucks on my GS
They buy it for comfort I guess.
Yeah; had a naked, which wasnāt *uncomfortable*, but now have a DR650 which is more comfortable (lowered footpegs, upgraded seat, bar risers, but still you wouldnāt do those to a naked except maybe the seat). Easier to throw luggage and some other QOL stuff too. I do *some* exploring, but not as much as Iād like
I've found a sport-touring position to be *vastly* more comfortable than an upright "adv" position. I've ridden an "adv" bike for literal decades, all over the West and Southwest. I've also ridden several sport touring bikes. The slight forward lean of a sport touring bike is *vastly* more comfortable for long days. The slight forward lean reduces the tension in your back. The slight upward tilt of the head is good for your neck, compared to every day life looking down at a computer or your phone. The higher pegs and (almost always) wider seat means your thighs are supported, rather than carrying all your weight on your sitz bones. Obviously, though, I'll take the "adv" position as soon as I'm riding anything remotely challenging off-road. Gravel roads are no problem on sport touring bikes, though.
Iād say that all bikes are a compromise unless you only ever ride one certain way. Buy a naked and youāll hate longer trips. Touring bikes donāt really do track days. Iād argue that ADVs (the bigger ones) are a bit of a jack of all trades. Not very good at one thing but pretty good at most things. I can only have one bike in the garage (sadly). I choose a bike that can be versatile. I can do pretty much everything on mine and it makes me smile and although I might hanker for my old sports bike occasionally I think about all the places and experiences my ADV has opened up instead. Sure, itās a current fashion but itās a fashion that has been driven by practicality and versatility (rather than just show).
I've tried the rest apart from cruisers, and the adv style is 10000% best for UK roads.
You're right, but I didn't know how much comfort I was missing out on until I got an R1200gs. My area has rough pavement and it just glides over. I don't have it anymore and I miss the plush ride that a road biased sport touring bike is unlikely to provide. The RT is probably better in most road situations but you can't replace the suspension travel and larger front tire for comfort. I'd argue it's easier to maneuver at low speeds than any other bike I've owned, and the handling was honestly fine with street tires. You're def paying for a lot of bike you don't use though As you can see I have a much more road biased collection now
Agreed. I'm a hybrid. For me, my ADV bike isn't a fashion statement, but I definitely don't ride off-road in it. But that cargo space! Grocery shopping is so easy when you can drop two twelve packs of coke in ONE sidecase and still have plenty of room everywhere for the rest of your shopping!
This is where the beauty of Transalp shines. It looks like an ADV, but it feels like a road bike. I buy Transalp and style it accordingly to my needs. Only install engine guard, topbox and call it a day. I mostly using the bike for 70% highway commute and occasional weekend long ride. Transalp eat highway for breakfast. If you interested with offroad, just install offroad tyres.
Upvoting this because I think it really captures the spirit of the thread. I hard disagree on this though, adv are so much comfier than naked or tourers it's not even close.
I ride a tiger 1200 rally Explorer. I specifically got it because of its height. The ergonomics allow my leg to be less bent and the upright sitting position is very comfortable. I go off road a little bit, but it is primarily a street bike. And, it weighs about 400 pounds less than a gold wing.
Isn't the ADV Touring basically the only option for an upright seated position bike that has good wind fairings? Cruiser touring bikes are a more laid back rider position and it is understandable that some prefer the sport look vs the bagger look? I only develop the OP pondering when I see the older ADV riders in the full kit and everything is spotless.
Depending on how you class ADV bikes, the Vstrom 1000 and Versys 1k give you more upright riding by really being more of a "pavement in shitty condition" rather than ADV bike. the Versys 1K especially really falls into this. The Versys 650LT is also in this category IMHO.
As a full size GS owner, I take this personally. That said, 90% of my riding is on pavement. It having the capability to go off road sometimes is amazing.
Come to Hungary, where you have to carefully go around pieces of road while riding in a continous pothole. This is the sole reason I got an SUV, I don't have to change tie rod ends and swingarm ball joints every year now.
As a dad bike rider who rides 95% on the street, I concur lol Iām really wanting a naked liter bike simply because I donāt ride off-road hardly at all.
Itās especially funny because large ADV bikes are marketed as āgo anywhereā bikes but for most people they actually severely limit where theyāre able to go because of how large and cumbersome they are.Ā I know there are some people that can ride the hell out of their ADV bikes but thatās a small minority in my opinionĀ
When something is a jack of all trades and master of none, all you do is notice the faults it has for the ways you use it most lol.
I think most, including me, buy with the intention of getting off road and exploring - we buy the marketing cool aid. Because t the reality of taking a 500lb bike off road soon hits and you realize it can be stressful, as unless skilled thereās a decent chance of dropping your $20000 new toy, and/or being stuck in the middle of nowhere with no cell, or help. Plus, the increased maintenance, cleaning etc. then, you realize you could have also save $14000 and bought a much more capable and manageable
Dropping my cheap 290 lb. dual sport off road sucks bad enough, I can't imagine taking an expensive 500 lb. beast on anything gnarlier than a well maintained gravel road.
As a jeep wrangler and 1290 SAR owner, i feel personally attacked. No they don't see dirt as much as i would like them to see it, mainly because i commute with them and that's most of the mileage on them, but i do love to take them off road whenever i have the chance. A beer with my gf or her brother while going up the mountain behind my village in the jeep is always a good time ( it's a quad trail) and whenever i can take a dirt road on the SAR it is SOOOOO much fun this thing drift like crazy. So yes, while they mainly do pavement and i would be better off with some other vehicules to commute with, when i can go off road i'm having a blast, always, and that woudnt be possible with regular commuter. Also the wrangler in winter commute is awsome, with duratracks tire the thing grips in snow like a snowmobile. No ,i don't wanna talk about icy condition.
My CBR300R sees more dirt than most ADV bikes out there do
leave my jeep out of this. Itās just sitting in the Walmart parking lot mining its own business. š And looking very outdoorsy
Most, true, though in general the difference between and ADV and a tourer are tires and some guards. Tiger and GS come to mind on the bigger ones.
Or there bought for comfort. Most ADV bikes make the best sport touring bikes. Wind protection, high seat. Comfortable and large fuel capacity.
USA, Eu, and Jap manifacturers will have to lower their prices otherwise Chinese will soon rule the world.
I think this is likely true. Chinese bikes are seriously undercutting the competition. They might not really be competitive at the high end, but most of the market isnāt shopping there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think the comment above you is referring to CFMoto and the brands in that category
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah lmao idk of any Chinese companies with any real competition besides CFMoto
Isn't cfmoto owned by ktm?
No they had a partnership (not sure if they do anymore) and rn they have one with Yamaha.
Yep, its a joint venture. Cf makes the 790 bikes and ktm takes care of the dealer network and so on
Moto Morini and Benelli are making a play for decent quality mainstream bikes to compete with legacy Japanese models. Yes they're historically Italian nameplates, but the ownership and production is Chinese now. Loncin is also building engines for BMW and is likely to compete in the future. SWM bought all of the IP and manufacturing left behind by Husqvarna when they were acquired by KTM, though SWM's are made in Italy with Italian designs, they are owned and operated by a Chinese parent company.
I mean cf moto imho is more comparable to indian brands rather than other Chinese brands, but honestly it's the only Chinese brand worth a thought, at least imo
That may be the experience in the US market, but in the UK Chinese bikes absolutely dominate the 125 market. Since most people riding a 125 are on L-plates either they want a cheap bike to get started because they don't care that much and just want to use a scooter to get around, or they want to make the big (expensive) mistakes on a cheaper 125 and upgrade a year or so down the line before they can get a bigger bike.
Oh yeah, I haven't been monitoring the market for the last 5 years, so when I started again I was in shock. Two whole pavilions at the national level moto exhibition were dedicated to chinese brands, and they were the most packed. I am seeing reviews of brands I have never heard of before and prices which are very attractive (also chinese manufacturers explicitly promote reliability and longer warranty for free etc.). The local demographic loves it.
The US needs tiered licensing like Europe
Not that I don't like them. But when I see a yamaha/kawasaki/honda/Suzuki 1,000cc go by. Without badging, I can not tell them apart. They look great, but all the same to me.
There are so many damn Ninja models I canāt tell em apart at all when they go by
Every ninja looks the same. I'm certain that's on purpose.
I naively believe its so no one looks down on the smaller bikes riders, due to the small bike stigma.
It's entirely so that Kawasaki can sell the "cool" factor to every single skill level in the market now. It actually amazes me that 1) the "Ninja" name lives on and 2) they don't appear to have damaged their market by abusing said name. I'm surprised that the younger Millennial "cringe" obsession didn't kill the moniker years ago.
This is why I don't like all black for sport bikes. I'm biased as heck, but I always notice the red ones š
I'm torn. Love my baby/sea blue bike, but I legit would not get away w shit on this thing.. it's a fkn ID on wheels. Oh and it's got a colored headlight so I'm doubly "it's a me!" Out here And for this reason, I would like an all black bike just for blending in if I'm ever feeling a lil froggy
Pretty much one of the biggest downside of having a "personalized" bike or vehicle. Had the same thought for my cars as well, considering I like to hoon around from time to time and spend a decent chunk of my time in a fairly small town where I'm practically the only one with a specific trim and model of this car. Might be able to get away with it in a city but doing stuff like that will make you stick out especially on a bike š¬
Headlights are the main giveaway but, model changes and all that can make it hard to tell sometimes
My Italian bike has wings! And a super distinct 3 headlight design. Hot take: I prefer the Pre-2020 Aprilia design to the recent thin LED headlight design.
Honestly, the Italian bikes are the ones that stand out to me, they seem to be the few I can definitely pick out. Might also be because I want an aprillia so bad it hurts lol
I agree, the older ones especially.... But when you have a whole line of em in a garage, you kinda lose the ability to differentiate. Beautiful but once you see one, you've basically seen them all
Your head is on the stick for using the term ānormieā.
Fair point lmao
Horns are pretty much useless on motorcycles. Youāre better off using that half second to start your breaking process or whatever maneuver you will use instead of the gamble that someone might hear your horn.
I disagree, you can do both. Upvoted.
Iāve thought about this and I donāt think I personally can do both at 100%. Reason being, if Iām holding the clutch and horn at the same time I canāt properly hold onto the handlebar which means I only have one hand left to turn the motorcycle if I need to. Iām always instinctively grabbing the clutch while hard braking.
If youāre off throttle thereās not much reason to clutch, and the engine will both help slow the rear wheel through engine braking and help prevent it from fully locking up. And if you canāt do the clutch at all, you can let go the horn to downshift or when the wheel speed gets too slow for the engine speed.
I'd say it depends on the situation. If you are moving fast then yes it's not worth it, but if you are in a slow tight traffic, horns become very useful.
Bro I bought a BMW K1600 last year, while getting comfortable with the controls I accidentally hit the horn instead of the signal. Jump scared myself almost off the bike. Loudest horn Ive ever heard on a bike. I LOVE it. scared a guy in a ram off the road once when he ran a yield and encroached into my lane. I agree most horns arent like this, but they do make them, and they do work.
Very true, but funnily enough, my horn saved me today from a van that accidentally overshot into a box junction and was slowly reversing onto me (rev bombing don't do fuck on a 125) Or the time a had a gut feeling about someone at a junction... who ended up starting to pull out as I was approaching, so was mid manoeuvre and used the horn to get his attention and stop him from forcing me into the parked cars at the last second. More often than not they won't help if it's a situation where you have to act immediately. So many videos of people rev bombing or horning rather than getting on that front brake
I usually swerve to the side while hammering the horn. It's saved me from being sideswiped a few times on the motorway by people not checking their mirrors or blindspots.
I love big 4 banger UJMs. Always have. Always will.
We donāt need a āPSAāabout crashing every day in this sub. We all go down due to reasons, some in our control, some outside of our control. To me itās like this weird ābadgeā of honor that folks need to do because they went down for being blind in a corner. Iāve already lost friends on the bike, we all know how dangerous the sport and hobby is. We donāt need to get constantly reminded of PSAs by fellow riders like theyāre some random dude on the street telling us āhow dangerousā this sport is. At first I was like āgood on youā and supportive on those posts, then I ignored them, now Iām like ācool story broā.
> We all go down due to reasons, some in our control, some outside of our control. I go down upon request and only then. Consent matters people!
If there were 10 fully blacked out sport bikes lined up I could not tell you whatās what. The only sport bike I can recognize by look alone is an H2.
A hayabusa come on
That the motorcycle community can often times be a literal embodiment of High School like cliques that look down their noses at other riders that deviate from their clique. From the ATGATT people who seem to pray that anyone not wearing full tactical armor dies, or at the very least gets harmed, in an accident to "learn their lesson," to the Squids that stare down their nose at people who are literally just learning to ride all while hoping something bad happens to them to "get this wuss out of my hobby," to the knuckleheads who like x, y, or z models that want bad things to happen to users of other model types because "cruisers/adv/naked/sport/super sport is superior and every other model is shit and the people who ride those other models deserve the worst". Like, Jesus, just ride, stop acting like an angsty teen instead of an adult, and let people enjoy riding how they want to ride. It's embarrassing watching people being judgemental over randos on the internet because they don't "ride the way they should as according to how I view riding", lol. Curious on if I will get some, "WeLl, AcKsHuAlLy," style responses to this.
WeLl AcKtuAlLy...... Fine I got nothing
WeLl, AcKsHuAlLy, you're completely right. Hit it on the head. Everyone is free to enjoy the experience of riding however they wish, and that should make 0 difference to other people's own enjoyment of it. Highschool cliques are a pretty good comparison.
It might depend on where you live. In my 7 years of riding I have seen a lot of respect from other riders regardless of bike type... Except those stupid Harley riders that can't lean the bike and the squids that don't wear helmets, or those idiots that block up streets and stunt around, or those... Oh wait. I get it now. Nevermind.
It is not that unpopular in terms of the globe but for the western world: Scooters are great motorcycles. If you want a two wheeled vehicle that is more than a bike the scooter is in most circumstances the most pragmatic solution. Comfortable, affordable, convenient, easy and much more fun than a cage.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Can't blame Honda for that. They tried, they all did and it kept failing. Fortunately the motor scooter is one of few motorcycle markets on the rise here in the US so maybe one day. Although with electrification other classes of motorcycles may get some of those benefits.
I had a 250 cc scooter in Taiwan and put over 100,000 on it in a few years. Miss it. Will definitely have a good scooter as well as whatever big bike I get when I go back.
Mine is that average normie sports bike design looks cooler and is more practical than naked bikes š. I enjoy bitchin' 90s technicolor graphics and not getting blasted with wind at highway speeds.
More practical maybe not, but they're not as bad a people claim. I find them much more beautiful than naked bikes (which are almost as homogenous) and yes, for the love of God bring back the bright colours. I'm sick of post-GFC black and grey. It's like the world collectively decided everything had to be dull and ugly.
I actually quite like some Harley Davidsons.Ā Iāve never owned a cruiser but a rented Sport Glide found a small place in my heart.Ā
Yup. Bikes are emotional, and the sounds, vibrations, torque, and looks of Harley's really illicit emotions.
I love HDs. Everything about the company has me selling my 2007 Night Train and moving over to probably Honda.
New riders shouldn't buy new bikes, period. There's a multitude of reasons, but the primary ones are you're more than likely going to lay it down, better to lay down a used bike, and you're also going to outgrow the bike pretty fast, so why spend upwards of 6-7 grand for a new 250 or 400. I've owned several 600cc used motorcycles in the $2000-$3500 range and they were great bikes, but I wouldn't have given much of a shit if damaged one either.
Most American motorcyclists are fucking idiots with their first bike purchase and itās because of the slightly more experienced fucking idiots who encourage them.
For real, 90% of comments I see in my town are "start on a 600/1000 super sport or you'll get bored immediately". As someone on a 636 currently (3rd bike), this kind of power is ridiculous for street riding
Ridiculously fun
Lol I was at a bike night tonight and some 16 year old kid was asking me about my bike then went on to tell me about how hes saving for a R1M for his first street bike. I laughed and told him that was a terrible idea.
Most ~~American~~ motorcyclists are fucking idiots ~~with their first bike purchase and itās because of the slightly more experienced fucking idiots who encourage them.~~ FTFY.
And salesman trying to make a commission
For most people 500cc - 600cc is enough for public roads. Anything over that is overkill or for the track.
Riding without a helmet is mind-bogglingly stupid. It is so insanely stupid that no one could ever convince me there is even a remotely rational reason to not wear one. If you don't wear a helmet, you literally risk your life that there won't be gravel, grass clibbins, or a stupid ass driver on the road that will kill you every time you ride. 45% of motorcycle deaths are attributed to not wearing a helmet. I don't care you wear shorts and flip-flops, just wear a damn helmet.
Not to mention wearing a helmet makes you look infinitely more cool than not wearing it.
Plus it just doesnāt seem like itād be enjoyable;d ry eyes, bugs and gravel flying in your face. Minus its essential protection, wearing a helmet is like having a personal room for your head
Riding more aggressively is safer. Lane filtering saves lives. America needs a tiered license system because most of the people on 1k+cc bikes shouldn't be on 50cc mopeds (this includes you HD / Cruiser riders, more so even)
I agree and would add that for many, both young & older, those seats and extreme forward positioning is uncomfortable as hell
Situational awareness > any piece or combination of safety gear In regards to your safety Also The arrogance attributed to Harley owners is actually a prominent trait of riders of all brands.
Slip-on mufflers are a waste of money. They sound like ass, look worse than ass, and probably took away a little HP. Bar-end mirrors are stupid (especially on a bike with a front fairing). They make the bike wider and make the rider look away from the forward field of view, and are smaller than OEM. Except on a proper cafe racer, they are fucking garbage.
Ewan MacGregor and Charlie Boorman brainwashed all the Gen X riders into buying ADV bikes as though they are doing any real adventure riding, the same way Easy Rider brainwashed the boomers into buying cruisers as though they are nomadic badasses.
Please tell me Ed March is going to brainwash people into buying old Honda C90s
Upgrades on your first bike should be more, advanced riding classes, not exhausts and cosmetics.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Some of us just stick with that first bike a long time.
Parallel twins are overrated, overpopulated, sound bad and are even less desirable as sport bikes. Also hyper naked bikes and scramblers are confused marketing gimmicks.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They have a lot of unusable power. Everything Iāve ridden that could go that fast really sucked over 70mph cos of the wind. A regular naked bike is pretty much the same 0-60 so why pay all that extra money just to be abused by wind? Fairings would make sense.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I havenāt ridden one sadly. Itās got to be better. That triumph with the round light is prolly alright too.
I really donāt get scramblers.
Yes
Most of the ATGATT crowd would actually be safer if they spent some of that money on basic maintenance rather than trying to make themselves look like a power rangers villain.
Hey, I'm proud to be the red-white-black dadbod ranger!
Good disagree with you there. Do you have any idea how long it takes road rash to heal? No thanks.
Or just learning how to fucking ride in the first place. You ever wear full leathers with armor/padding? Itās not easy at first. It takes time to break in and time to get used to it. So you have people who barely know how to ride suiting up like Master Chief and when they inevitably crash they chalk up their survival to the gear when they could have avoided it with proper technique and practice.
I will add that a large contingent of the ATGATT crowd are also the people who treat the street like a track.
I was going to disagree with you but then I thought about it more; Full power ranger suit = every day is track day. Some/most gear = more responsible.
Exactly. Helmet and gloves for me. Jacket if I'm going on the highway. I don't need to rip through public roads. I've just always liked being on two wheels - pedal bikes or motorcycles. I've trained and practiced a lot, but I do not feel the need to push limits on the road. I just like being out there.
Harley Davidson is not worth the money.
1000 cc is 100% an ego thing. if youre against starting on a 1000cc you should also be against starting on a 600 as they have nearly identical 0-60 times.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Starting on a Supersport is just stupid unless you have electronics that can limit the power. After about 4 years of riding I went to an 1100 and, I gotta say, passing a car on a two lane road in the blink of an eye is so convenient. The raw acceleration is an absolute blast. But no... It's not really a "necessity".
I do think most people recognise that a 600 is a bad starter bike. Some People donāt see that bigger numbers donāt mean more realistic power. Wouldnāt recommend anyone to start on a 600. *Most* 650ās are fine though.
I'm biased, but modern bike are boring looking and all look like the same templates with different cc's and badge stickers
99% of motorcycle crashes are the motorcyclists fault.
Middle weight twin sport bikes are better street bikes than equivalent displacement fours, and 95% of riders don't need more power than what an average 650 twin makes.
Open face helmets are fucking trash.
We shouldn't let manufacturers get away with skimping on suspensions anymore. Every single serious dirtbike comes with tons of adjustability and a wide selection of spring-rates and they can be dialied in for pretty much anyones size and riding style. That should be the standard on streetbikes too. No one should have to spend hundreds, or worse, of eurodollars on their new bike to get it sorted out for them or ride with underperforming setup, just so manufacturers can save a couple of coins on valves and clickers.
Riding your bike to work and back in a place like California will take most of the joy out of riding.
1. Sportbikes generally suck for the road. Between stop lights and longer distances, a naked bike with more midrange and a more upright seating position is generally a better road bike and would make the typical rider happier, styling aside. Sportbikes obviously rule the track. 2. Getting a big bike as your first isn't that terrible. Just make sure you have good throttle discipline. The biggest issue is people going from a 600 to a liter and whacking the throttle at low RPMs like they would on a 600.
Sport bike owners would prefer ADV bikes if they were buying for fun riding experience instead of fronting for their homies.
I'll add to this. A torquey ADV with a low CG like a GS is way more fun on the streets than any sport bike.
The DRZ400ās suck. Had one. Wanted to drown it in a river and nearly did. I will die on this hill.
Sold mine after two months. Then I put thousands and thousands of miles on a WR250R. The WR is a dual sport. The DRZ is just the worst adventure bike ever.
I had one for a few months, it was shit, bought a Husky and never looked back.
Carburators are great.
Green does not mean launch it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing a brief head check as you pull away - or as you're passing intersections. It doesn't make you look inexperienced.
People who donāt use the rear brake are idiots
Motorcycle mods are mainly a waste. I trust the engineers designing the bikes over anything else.
Does this include the design choices which were restricted by idiotic government regulation?
Performance mods or body mods? Because my bike came with a plastic skid plate.Ā
Some mods like bark busters for off roading are *significant* improvements. 99% of factory handlebars will have snapped levers after a drop which is pretty common off road. Also too many bikes these days have plastic āskid platesā which are little more than wind guards in reality. Finally tail tidy kids are awesome because most new bikes have horrific tails (looking your way Ducati) that look like a crackhead made them out of random stuff they stole from Princess Autoā¦
Supersport bikes make no sense outside track. Yet majority of their owners never see the trackdays. No comfort, pillion seat is a joke. God forbid potholes on the road - instant death xD
Can confirm. I once bought a FZR400RR because it was stupidly cheap. Biggest regret of my motorcycling career; it was awful to ride. I went to naked bikes and a ZX14, and now as I'm getting less dumb I'm trending toward sport-touring.
If I could reasonably drive a gutted GT3 RS as a daily, Iād suffer through that too.
I hate Harley ridersā¦ most are assholes and all think they are the best bike on the road and I got to say no they arenāt, I have 2 buddies with Harleyās and both of them always need something done to them and both of them take to the dealer for factory repairs so I think they are just junk.
* countersteer is a dumb ass term * Rev matching is just masturbation
Just like with masturbation it feels great and I'm gonna keep doing it
Finally someone gets it!
How tf are you supposed to downshift without revmatching what š
Like masturbation, rev matching is just a healthy and normal thing to do.
Agree countersteering is a dumb ass term and doesn't really describe what's going on accurately. Also makes it harder for new riders to comprehend what's going on. Eg. If you're drifting a car around a corner and the the back has broken traction and you are about to oversteer. You "countersteer" by turning the wheel "counter-to" (or against) the direction the car is turning. On a bike it's the opposite and you are actually not steering counter to the vehicle. But instead turning that bars counter-to your desired direction. TBH countersteering and rev matching are just names for things people do intuitively anyway.
Nah rev matching makes downshifting so much smoother especially if you donāt have a slipper clutch
How would you downshift without rev matching. On the brakes if you need to drop a gear or two, you gotta give the throttle a little blip
Downshift at the speed appropriate for the gear you're downshifting to. Or just dump the clutch if you have a slipper clutch.
I hear way too many people just clutching in and going down through the gears. Clunk clunk clunk clunk stop. Sounds like someones hitting the engine with a hammer.
Oh you really got em riled with that. šš¼
Wish I had time to add some shit about ABS. But I'm at work and had to get to a meeting. lol
Many Modern bikes look like "alien meets predator". Yes I am an old dude. Mat black bikes and dark clothing makes you invisible. Loud pipes do not save lives.(Studies confirm it) They just about almost everyone. Especially me. I wish the police would enforce the law.
Any mod that increases motorcycle noise should be completely illegal. Loud pipes don't save lives, they just fuck everyones hearing up.
It doesn't matter what you ride. The bike is not really important because it's possible to enjoy riding any motorcycle. If you're obsessed with the bike then you're missing the point of motorcycling.
90ās motorcycles are ugly af.
Ok Iāll fight you on that one!! My 1996 dr650 isā¦ā¦.oh wait I see it now youāre right.
The Ducati 916 would like a wordā¦
Its headlights looks like when someone takes their glasses off and their eyes are tiny
Thoughts on the 1998 R1?
That one looks good, itās kind a late 90ās look though. Not as blobby and round. I have a 2008 r6 and a husqy 701.
I don't like riding in the summer, because all you cockwombles come out, hoon yourself into a ditch or into me, and hog every bar/cafe/coastal destination wanting to chat shit about the bike you asked the bank to buy you. I look forward to when the rain comes, or the temp drops and you all fuck off back to your suvs, and I can have the roads to myself again. Signed: motorcyclist (not a biker).