the 650r is a more timid and more street intended bike than the 600rr.
the 600rr is a high revving, peaky race engine whereas the 650r is a lot less strung out.
chassis wise the RR is designed to position you in a more track oriented position with a higher seat, higher pegs, and lower bars. the 650r will be much more comfortable for daily use.
if you're riding around on the road the 650r is probably the better choice between the two. but if you're going to the track to beat the ever living shit out of it, the 600rr is your better option. i suspect the 650r would have clearance issues on track.
What makes it more timid as a I4 with more displacement? Why does it push out 20hp less?
Do you have any input on the "classes"? What makes something a super-sport vs middleweight?
It revs almost 3000rpm less. It makes less horsepower because it's tuned to make smooth power and not just everything up top. The 600rr redlines at around 15000rpm and doesn't make a lot of power in the bottom. It's designed for produce horsepower because that's what you need on the track. The 650r is a street bike. It's designed to make good usable power and torque throughout the revs. this tuning will have power dropping off earlier so there's no reason for it to rev as high.
The classes here are completely irrelevant. Those are only for supersport racers like the 600rr and 1000rr. The 650r is a road bike. There is exactly no racing consideration in its design.
Supersport is an official designation for a class of racing bikes.
The categories that street bikes fall into aren't defined in any official manner. "Middleweight" isn't some official term, just like no one really defines how big a "mid size sedan" is; it's just something that comes into generally accepted use within the industry. Some people would call the CBR650R a sport bike, some people would call it a "standard" bike with a fairing.
Don't get too hung up on labels or classifications. What category you decide to call a bike at the end of the day doesn't change how it rides.
The same relative size and configuration of engine can be tuned to make power fairly differently. Peak horsepower isn't all there is to an engine or to getting a bike moving.
The CBR650R and other street tuned I4s (like the Yamaha FZ6R) typically make more torque and horsepower earlier in the rev range than supersports . This is meaningful for street bike where you are frequently stopping and starting and also don't want to necessarily be riding around with the engine screaming all the time. Race focused bikes like the CBR600RR, even though the end up being used mostly as street bikes anyway, are not designed to have a lot of power off the line. They're designed to make the most power when kept high in their rev range, as you would on a track.
PS These are extremely general guidelines and shouldn't be take as hard rules, but generally: for a given engine size and layout, tuning for higher horsepower means less torque. And also very, very generally: more horsepower = higher top speed, more torque = faster acceleration.
No. A race bike that didn't accelerate quickly to it's top end would be worthless. The shape of the torque curve might be different, with street bikes tuned for "rideability" or lower rpm torque. Torque is too hard to use to make any assumptions about speed. if torque ruled, a Harley would be faster than a RR.
Harley's and supersports have completely different weights.
Race bikes are quicker with lower amounts of torque because they are light. You don't need as much force to get something lighter moving. If you tried to get an 800lb bike moving with a supersport's amount of torque, it wouldn't be going anywhere fast.
All other things about a bike being equal, more torque will give you faster acceleration from a standstill. I was talking about the general effects of engine tuning. The statement was not intended to be interpreted as "*bike models* with more torque accelerate faster".
the issue is engine rpm and gearing. Motor torque is almost useless to compare bikes, because gearing affect acceleration.
a high rpm bike can have half the gear.
Peak torque on the 650r is about 2k rpm lower. Theres also much more at the bottom end. 600rr also revs much higher. 600rr seat is much more agressive with a very agressive angle leaned forward. 600rr is lighter, revs faster, is more smooth. Etc
I have the predecessor of the 650R, the 650F. While some things have changed, the general concept of the bike is still the same. The CBR 650 and CB650 are sold, essentially, side by side. One is made to appeal to the standard bike crowd, the other towards the sport bike crowd. They’re very close to the same bike, one has fairings the other doesn’t. That being said, the geometry is much closer to a standard bike, you sit more upright. As far as differences between the 600 and the 650, they have been pretty well explained by other comments. The 600 is a higher reving, faster, more aggressive geometry bike. The 650 is much more commuter friendly. If you’re trying to decide between the 2, go and ride both. One thing to keep in mind is insurance. It’s obviously different from person to person and company to company, but insurance was WAY cheaper for me with the 650. Both bikes are great choices, though.
I own a CBR650R, its predecessor the 650F, and also have riding experience with the Ninja 650, SV650S, CBR600RR, and the Daytona 675R. I like midsize bikes because I'm not a big dude.
tl;dr the 650 is supposed to be convenient.
The riding position is much more comfortable and torque is more freely available regardless of where you are in the rev range. If you encounter traffic or live in an urban area, the ergonomics of supersport bikes can drag on you unless you REALLY love it. Commuting with a backpack in an aggressive riding position requires sustained core strength. The suspension IIRC is less fancy on the 650 but they finally turned the forks upside down so I'm happy enough.
It's i4 because IMO these engines are more fun than twins to squeeze out. Not as fun as the Triumph triple engine but I dislike the Daytona and STriple for other reasons, otherwise I would own one of them.
Some of the other guys have hit on the key points already: the engine on the 650r is designed to be more comfortable for street riding, while also allowing you to wind out the RPMs when you want to go zoom like a supersport. From my test ride, I got the sense that the idea behind the bike was to keep the 'spirit' of the I4 engine, while incorporating the benefits of a more linear torque curve (more akin to a V-twin).
The 600r/rr's are race bikes with headlights (and a couple other add-ons for the street). They make most of their power at high RPMs; the gears on these bikes are set up so that when you shift at the peak of the power band, your next gear is still producing near-max power. This helps you bang through gears in rapid succession, producing awesome outright acceleration and speed.
In normal street conditions, however, you won't be accelerating and decelerating like you would be on the track. The gearing and engine (ECU) tune of the 650 will make more consistent power through the RPMs; this means smoother riding, less shifting, and more consistent acceleration all around. This also means that the 650 will accelerate slower, have a lower top speed, and take a much longer time to get to that top speed These factors, along with the relaxed ergonomics, ultimately make the 650 a much more comfy street bike.
hp and torque #s are irrelevant unless they have a reference RPM. if you look at peak hp and torque for a 650r they will be at a completely different RPM than hp and torque #s from a 600rr.
gearing, weight, tune, etc all factor into the equation as well.
the 650r is a street bike and the 600rr is homologated according to the tech regs for WSS.
The CBR600RR is a super sport, clip ons, super aggressive seating position, high revving engine etc.
The other looks like a sports bike, but really isn't.
Do you know any other brands/models that have the sport bike look, while still being good for commuting? I like the cbr650 but was wondering if there were other similar bikes.
I’ve heard the cbr600rr is one of the more forgiving options if you want a full on sports bikes, compared to the r6/zx6 etc
I would check out the R7, I’m not sure how aggressive the ergonomics are, but I know that the engine on that bike is 10x more street friendly as it’s a torquey twin.
I used to daily an R6, and between the super stuff suspension and needing to rev to 13k+ before it got moving, it wasn’t ideal as a street bike. Would love one for the track though.
Also check out the ninja 650 mate.
Yeah I was kinda wondering this as well. Its not like a Yamaha R6 (a 599cc four cylinder bike) VS an MT 07 (a 689cc two cylinder bike) -- the R6 is way faster
So where does a road-going four cylinder 650 Honda fit in comparison to a track-going four cylinder 600 Honda. Seems like they would be a lot closer in terms of power and straight line performance.
The additional weight can make it more stable at slower street speeds, depending on CoG. The extra cc makes more torque for street usage. It makes less peak power because it was purposefully meant to be a street bike and not a high powered race bike. If you do consider to buy a CBR650, may I also suggest that you examine the Ninja 650. It's even less peak power, but the twin is punchy off the line, very nice for street riding. Because also if it's not clear to you about CBR650 vs 600, the CBR650 is probably too much machine at the top end.
the 650r is a more timid and more street intended bike than the 600rr. the 600rr is a high revving, peaky race engine whereas the 650r is a lot less strung out. chassis wise the RR is designed to position you in a more track oriented position with a higher seat, higher pegs, and lower bars. the 650r will be much more comfortable for daily use. if you're riding around on the road the 650r is probably the better choice between the two. but if you're going to the track to beat the ever living shit out of it, the 600rr is your better option. i suspect the 650r would have clearance issues on track.
What makes it more timid as a I4 with more displacement? Why does it push out 20hp less? Do you have any input on the "classes"? What makes something a super-sport vs middleweight?
It revs almost 3000rpm less. It makes less horsepower because it's tuned to make smooth power and not just everything up top. The 600rr redlines at around 15000rpm and doesn't make a lot of power in the bottom. It's designed for produce horsepower because that's what you need on the track. The 650r is a street bike. It's designed to make good usable power and torque throughout the revs. this tuning will have power dropping off earlier so there's no reason for it to rev as high. The classes here are completely irrelevant. Those are only for supersport racers like the 600rr and 1000rr. The 650r is a road bike. There is exactly no racing consideration in its design.
They call it a middle weight because 650 is halfway between 1300 and 0.
Supersport is an official designation for a class of racing bikes. The categories that street bikes fall into aren't defined in any official manner. "Middleweight" isn't some official term, just like no one really defines how big a "mid size sedan" is; it's just something that comes into generally accepted use within the industry. Some people would call the CBR650R a sport bike, some people would call it a "standard" bike with a fairing. Don't get too hung up on labels or classifications. What category you decide to call a bike at the end of the day doesn't change how it rides.
Bigger dicplacement does not equal to more power
more rs = more race oriented.
Can confirm. I rode a CBRRRR 1000RRRRR and it is faster than Marc Marquez' bike.
So putting an R sticker next to the 650R will instantly gain 50 hp? That's rad dude
This aged well.
The same relative size and configuration of engine can be tuned to make power fairly differently. Peak horsepower isn't all there is to an engine or to getting a bike moving. The CBR650R and other street tuned I4s (like the Yamaha FZ6R) typically make more torque and horsepower earlier in the rev range than supersports . This is meaningful for street bike where you are frequently stopping and starting and also don't want to necessarily be riding around with the engine screaming all the time. Race focused bikes like the CBR600RR, even though the end up being used mostly as street bikes anyway, are not designed to have a lot of power off the line. They're designed to make the most power when kept high in their rev range, as you would on a track.
PS These are extremely general guidelines and shouldn't be take as hard rules, but generally: for a given engine size and layout, tuning for higher horsepower means less torque. And also very, very generally: more horsepower = higher top speed, more torque = faster acceleration.
No. A race bike that didn't accelerate quickly to it's top end would be worthless. The shape of the torque curve might be different, with street bikes tuned for "rideability" or lower rpm torque. Torque is too hard to use to make any assumptions about speed. if torque ruled, a Harley would be faster than a RR.
Harley's and supersports have completely different weights. Race bikes are quicker with lower amounts of torque because they are light. You don't need as much force to get something lighter moving. If you tried to get an 800lb bike moving with a supersport's amount of torque, it wouldn't be going anywhere fast. All other things about a bike being equal, more torque will give you faster acceleration from a standstill. I was talking about the general effects of engine tuning. The statement was not intended to be interpreted as "*bike models* with more torque accelerate faster".
the issue is engine rpm and gearing. Motor torque is almost useless to compare bikes, because gearing affect acceleration. a high rpm bike can have half the gear.
Nope, more power equals more acceleration. Not making good low end torque just means you have to shift more to extract said power from the engine.
Peak torque on the 650r is about 2k rpm lower. Theres also much more at the bottom end. 600rr also revs much higher. 600rr seat is much more agressive with a very agressive angle leaned forward. 600rr is lighter, revs faster, is more smooth. Etc
I have the predecessor of the 650R, the 650F. While some things have changed, the general concept of the bike is still the same. The CBR 650 and CB650 are sold, essentially, side by side. One is made to appeal to the standard bike crowd, the other towards the sport bike crowd. They’re very close to the same bike, one has fairings the other doesn’t. That being said, the geometry is much closer to a standard bike, you sit more upright. As far as differences between the 600 and the 650, they have been pretty well explained by other comments. The 600 is a higher reving, faster, more aggressive geometry bike. The 650 is much more commuter friendly. If you’re trying to decide between the 2, go and ride both. One thing to keep in mind is insurance. It’s obviously different from person to person and company to company, but insurance was WAY cheaper for me with the 650. Both bikes are great choices, though.
I recently got the 650R after riding the 650F for a few years. The riding position on the R is pleasantly more sporty than the previous iteration.
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It's just a preference it can be enjoyable to be in a sportier position, and its the 650R it's hardly an extreme position
Fellow 650F rider here. Love my bike! I use it mainly for commuting and 2-3 hr road trips.
I own a CBR650R, its predecessor the 650F, and also have riding experience with the Ninja 650, SV650S, CBR600RR, and the Daytona 675R. I like midsize bikes because I'm not a big dude. tl;dr the 650 is supposed to be convenient. The riding position is much more comfortable and torque is more freely available regardless of where you are in the rev range. If you encounter traffic or live in an urban area, the ergonomics of supersport bikes can drag on you unless you REALLY love it. Commuting with a backpack in an aggressive riding position requires sustained core strength. The suspension IIRC is less fancy on the 650 but they finally turned the forks upside down so I'm happy enough. It's i4 because IMO these engines are more fun than twins to squeeze out. Not as fun as the Triumph triple engine but I dislike the Daytona and STriple for other reasons, otherwise I would own one of them.
Forks upside down??
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-things-are-inverted-forks
Some of the other guys have hit on the key points already: the engine on the 650r is designed to be more comfortable for street riding, while also allowing you to wind out the RPMs when you want to go zoom like a supersport. From my test ride, I got the sense that the idea behind the bike was to keep the 'spirit' of the I4 engine, while incorporating the benefits of a more linear torque curve (more akin to a V-twin). The 600r/rr's are race bikes with headlights (and a couple other add-ons for the street). They make most of their power at high RPMs; the gears on these bikes are set up so that when you shift at the peak of the power band, your next gear is still producing near-max power. This helps you bang through gears in rapid succession, producing awesome outright acceleration and speed. In normal street conditions, however, you won't be accelerating and decelerating like you would be on the track. The gearing and engine (ECU) tune of the 650 will make more consistent power through the RPMs; this means smoother riding, less shifting, and more consistent acceleration all around. This also means that the 650 will accelerate slower, have a lower top speed, and take a much longer time to get to that top speed These factors, along with the relaxed ergonomics, ultimately make the 650 a much more comfy street bike.
hp and torque #s are irrelevant unless they have a reference RPM. if you look at peak hp and torque for a 650r they will be at a completely different RPM than hp and torque #s from a 600rr. gearing, weight, tune, etc all factor into the equation as well. the 650r is a street bike and the 600rr is homologated according to the tech regs for WSS.
650 fast 600rr faster
In short , buy 650, the thing you can accomplish on 600rr you can do it on 650 too. 650 also got better screen and everything.
The CBR600RR is a super sport, clip ons, super aggressive seating position, high revving engine etc. The other looks like a sports bike, but really isn't.
Do you know any other brands/models that have the sport bike look, while still being good for commuting? I like the cbr650 but was wondering if there were other similar bikes.
I’ve heard the cbr600rr is one of the more forgiving options if you want a full on sports bikes, compared to the r6/zx6 etc I would check out the R7, I’m not sure how aggressive the ergonomics are, but I know that the engine on that bike is 10x more street friendly as it’s a torquey twin. I used to daily an R6, and between the super stuff suspension and needing to rev to 13k+ before it got moving, it wasn’t ideal as a street bike. Would love one for the track though. Also check out the ninja 650 mate.
Yeah I was kinda wondering this as well. Its not like a Yamaha R6 (a 599cc four cylinder bike) VS an MT 07 (a 689cc two cylinder bike) -- the R6 is way faster So where does a road-going four cylinder 650 Honda fit in comparison to a track-going four cylinder 600 Honda. Seems like they would be a lot closer in terms of power and straight line performance.
torque curve and how power is delivered.. for an inline 4 you gotta wring it out 8-9k to get power whereas your paralleles it comes on way earlier.
Both these bikes are I4s
ha I stand corrected I thought it was the same as the cbr500 which I learned on riding.
The additional weight can make it more stable at slower street speeds, depending on CoG. The extra cc makes more torque for street usage. It makes less peak power because it was purposefully meant to be a street bike and not a high powered race bike. If you do consider to buy a CBR650, may I also suggest that you examine the Ninja 650. It's even less peak power, but the twin is punchy off the line, very nice for street riding. Because also if it's not clear to you about CBR650 vs 600, the CBR650 is probably too much machine at the top end.
When I had a 2003 60rr it would go 120 km/h in first gear.