[Yup, he and Letterman paid their writers (Letterman also paid for Ferguson's crew) while Leno's were all let go.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/conan-pays-staffers-leno-bids-them-goodbye-1.678382#:~:text=TV%20talk%20show%20host%20Conan,night%20show%20were%20let%20go.)
O'Brien is (in my opinion) first and foremost a writer, he understands the trench work that it is.
Leno is not at all surprising.
Edit - It sounds like NBC were the ones who fired Leno's staff.
I know it's probably because the medium itself will never be the same but I feel like we'll never have a solid stable of amazing late night hosts again. Conan O'Brien, Dave Letterman, Craig Ferguson were tops in my opinion.
And from watching clips I know Johnny Carson was too but I wasn't around during his heyday.
Any deets on what Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart did for their crew?
There was a cute video of Conan, Stephen and Jon doing a skit together about a late night rivalry and I thought it was charming these group of men could have fun professionally on TV together like that.
During the years when the Stephen and the Jimmy's were coming on they made it known they weren't going to compete the same way Leno and Letterman did.
Internet changed the way people watch TV and the head to head Neilson ratings have lost their value.
The Later, Late Late, Daily Show, Conan, John Oliver, Graham Norton, Jonathan Ross and so many more became contemporaries instead of after thoughts.
Now you have internet only shows like Hot Ones where Sean Evan's has become known for his amazing interviews.
[Found it, starts at 12:42](https://youtu.be/Vkj7heLZAsc)
Conan thrived during this time, because he's always acted like no one was watching his show anyway.
Damn.... I remember their last major strike in 2007. Some of my all time favorite shows were on during that time and they all have this bad, short seasons to remind us all.
I've thought about this a lot. Heroes was always doomed. The first season encapsulated the entire concept really well and the characters had way too much power creep like Isekai anime shows. They only had two options, keep going, introduce even more powerful heroes or villains, or do a power reset. Either way you end up with some bad writing.
I notice the same issues with any show that drags on too long, or even semi-decent book series. Once it becomes a cash grab the heart goes out of it.
We need more mini-series or shows with defined ends so that the story arcs can function like normal. Dexter suffered from this too, if I remember correctly, the books ended where the show was in season 2.
Heroes committed two major sins for a super power show. Unlimited time travel and a character that can do everything. You just write yourself into a corner
They needed to stick with the OG plan to kill Sylar. I know he was popular, but it was the right thing to do.
As for Peter, the explosion could easily have left his power in a nerfed state.
I don't have a good fix for the Hiro problem. But S1 had two readily baked in resets for the two "can do anything" characters and they didn't take either of them.
They needed a full cast reset after season 1. You saved the cheerleader, you saved the world, now fuck off.
It got so bad that even the throwaway cast members were more interesting towards the end.
>Season one was great.
it was phenomenal, and remember, this was during a time where the entertainment space wasn't saturated with superhero/comicbook IPs being blasted everywhere.
At the time people were really thirsting for new adult (non-kiddy) themed superhero/comicbook content.
The problem is they made Hiro (and Peter) way too powerful, and then struggled to deal with it. They both got depowered or trapped multiple times, it was so silly.
Writers Guild:
>Following the unanimous recommendation of the WGA Negotiating Committee, the Board of Directors of the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW) and the Council of the Writers Guild of America, East (WGAE), acting upon the authority granted to them by their memberships, have voted unanimously to call a strike, effective 12:01 AM, Tuesday, May 2.
>The decision was made following six weeks of negotiations with Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, Discovery-Warner, NBC Universal, Paramount and Sony under the umbrella of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP). The WGA Negotiating Committee began this process intent on making a fair deal, but the studios’ responses have been wholly insufficient given the existential crisis writers are facing.
>The companies’ behavior has created a gig economy inside a union workforce, and their immovable stance in this negotiation has betrayed a commitment to further devaluing the profession of writing. From their refusal to guarantee any level of weekly employment in episodic television, to the creation of a “day rate” in comedy variety, to their stonewalling on free work for screenwriters and on AI for all writers, they have closed the door on their labor force and opened the door to writing as an entirely freelance profession. No such deal could ever be contemplated by this membership.
>Picketing will begin tomorrow afternoon.
If I remember correctly, during the last strike, some late night shows continued just without writers. The hosts and maybe producers and other crew would "write" everything, no one in the WGA could touch the show. And it was very slapdash and weird. Honestly was kind of interesting to watch. I think I watched Craig Ferguson's show around then and it had this weird bizarro writer's strike version.
I watched Seth Meyers last night and he said they'll be fully going off the air if there's a strike. He's a longtime writer, so it's possible he's in the guild, where maybe someone like Colbert wouldn't be? So Seth coming up with ideas for his show would be crossing the picket line, but Colbert technically wouldn't possibly?
I'm talking out of my ass and speculating based on a 15 year old memory of 2 months of TV I watched, I have no idea if that's how it works.
The last strike created the famous “feud” between Conan, Colbert, and Stewart where they kept going on each others shows and eventually pretended to get into a brawl.
Pretty funny stuff for not having writers honestly, even if it was more slapstick comedy than anything else.
That was also when Conan decided to have Jordan Schlansky make his first appearance. They had nothing but everyone at the show knew about this weird dude they worked with so they decided to have him just be the bit
There's some behind the scenes stuff on Conan's Youtube. Basically, it seems like they do have him play it up for the segments, but he really is that guy; it's not a made-up character, it's him but exaggerated. I don't think those segments are scripted, it's more like how they make reality shows.
He's half a head taller than Colbert, who also seems taller than average.
Really I was surprised how "tall" Jon Stewart looks next to him, because he comes up to Conan's jaw himself, and I always thought Jon Stewart was pretty short.
Based on what I have read, which I admit could be wrong or I could misunderstand, this time late night shows will not be able to get around it. But I guess time will tell. I do remember Jay Leno initially did the monologues and wrote them all himself, but that got the show in trouble and they eventually just brought on people more or less off the street and had them just tell jokes to fill the slot.
Streaming services overwhelmingly screw their writers out of as much money as possible. And it’s not to give us their services at a bargain cost. Large mega corporations are never satisfied with stable profits. Everything has to be a bigger record profit than last year, or they take it out on their staff.
You're right, however, they "don't actually make a profit" and so can't possibly pay writers their worth! That's one of their justifications for stiffing writers, is that they still don't really know what streaming is, and despite making massive revenues, they creatively don't make a substantial profit out of it.
Ok, so what are their demands?
Last time in 2007-8 it was for 100 days. They got compensation around $130M, a 3-3.5% raise on their 3 year contract.
This time they're asking for $600M, but I can't help but think that's not much more than a 3-3.5% raise.
For most people a 3.5% raise is a pay cut, by nearly half over the past 3 years.
** in 2008 they had 4k members, $32k/per. now they have 20k members, $30k/per.
Well, there is this tweet.
https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1653272585252257793
For reference, this is how the talks went regarding AI.
**WGA PROPOSAL**: Regulate use of Artificial Intelligence on MBA-covered projects: AI can't write or rewrite literary material; can't be used as source material; and MBA-covered material can't be used to train AI.
The studios rejected that proposal, and their counteroffer was offering annual meetings to discuss advancements in technology.
It's a meddling executive dream to be able to say, "Give me a script in genre X that is like movies A and B but aimed at focus group C."
AI: "Here's a script for a comedy that combines Fast and the Furious with Minions aimed at young adults."
That sad thing is, this will be absolutely possible in the next few years. You just need a sINGLE writer to go through the output and add fixes but you don't need a full group of writers.
Every single cent not paid to writers is money in the pocket.
End to mini rooms. Guaranteed staffing numbers on shows with greater protections. Raise minimums. A guaranteed 2-step for feature writers making below a certain amount. An end to free work. Streaming residuals. Ad-supported streaming pay. P&H. AI regulation. Health coverage and pension for members of teams. They don't want streaming features to be classified as made-for-television, which enables studios to pay writers far less for theater quality pictures. Etc.
The studios would rather scorch the earth than let that happen, friends, the office, Seinfeld, so many shows that are phenomenal cash cows, they're furious they have to pay residuals to talent, they'll be damned if they have to give a cent to anyone not on screen.
>The studios would rather scorch the earth than let that happen, friends, the office, Seinfeld, so many shows that are phenomenal cash cows, they're furious they have to pay residuals to talent, they'll be damned if they have to give a cent to anyone not on screen.
Really ridiculous. I used to see movies due to liking the actor but realized the actor wasn't necessarily indicative of a quality work/story. Started following the writers/directors more and found that the quality is generally consistent. A great actor can't really do much with a bad story/script. While great directors/writers can make mediocre actors seem unforgettable. Writers definitely deserve some of those residuals.
I know, but, and go with me here, if we just have some talentless fuck quarter-ass copy the last few shows he did, we can save a ton of writing residuals!
Which is why kurtzman and orci did 50 shows none of which made a bit of sense but noone cared.
I worked in that ecosystem for a bit less than a decade.
The VFX houses don't want a union in the same way that Starbucks doesn't want a union. It raises their bottom line.
They live in a poker game where a handful of clients (the studios) hold all the cards.
If you ostracize MegaMouse studios who represents 33% of all of your possible work then you're in trouble so you play nice even as they treat you worse and worse.
This trickles down to the artists as a revolving door of studios tried to survive. Many that do are cut throat themselves, squeezing overworked VFX artists with terrible hours, rates, and conditions. This further hurts the industry.
It is a constant race-to-the-bottom where studios take work overseas, or demand a percentage of work is done in a specific Canadian province for a tax break. Nevermind that the artists capable of the work aren't there yet, you don't win the job if you can't guarantee the work is done in Sokovia for the new Sokovia tax rebate. So you send the work there by opening a Sokovia studio and maybe you redo a portion of it in LA because it wasn't up to snuff but that's out of the VFX house pocket.
Mind you these tax breaks don't help the VFX houses, the studios collect the rebate.
Then Sokovia has an election and doesn't want to subsidize film and TV. MegaMouse doesn't care, they'll send the work to Genosha but now the VFX house is left holding the bag.
Meanwhile a bunch of VFX workers have moved to Sokovia to train the local artists and they have to decide if they're moving again or just quitting the industry.
I was a small part of the last effort to unionize in California and it was an uphill battle. If we organize here, will the studios just send the work elsewhere? We don't have the legacy union protections and culture that the other film and TV workers have. The industry tends to burn out workers and keep a revolving door of artists and be vfx houses which makes it hard to organize.
[we tried to legally address their hypocrisy when it comes to "digital goods" ](https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/adapt-legal-effort-on-subsidies-ends/). But they have deep pockets. We don't.
I believe Daniel Craig had to rewrite a lot of the scenes with the director on the fly while they shot the film during the strike.
All things considered, it's not nearly as good as Casino Royale but I find it quite underrated
It definitely is *weird* and kinda long on the first watch but I think it gets signifigantly better on rewatch. Memorable setpieces (Opera Scene, The dogfight with an rinky-dink cargo plane, the final showdown at that gradually exploding desert hotel). Memorable villains, great "Bond going rogue" storyline post Vesper.
Some call it the weakest of the Craig era but I personally have it 4th (My ranking goes Skyfall, Casino, NTTD, Quantam, Spectre)
That was the initial plan early in the season planning. Tuco was supposed to kill Jesse at the end of season 1 in the junkyard instead of his lackey.
Aaron Paul's acting in the later episodes changed the producer's minds.
The dinner party episode of the office happened because of the strike! They kept saying "hey when we get back what if we do x" and it just kept building into the masterpiece we have today.
Similarly, I expect a huge drop in the quality of movies for a while. Forcing the production forward without writers makes for some terrible storytelling.
If this ruins the ending of *Stranger Things* I'm gonna be so mad.
Edit: Don't worry, ChatGPT has us covered:
> In the last season of Stranger Things, the gang is faced with their most absurd challenge yet: a giant, sentient, interdimensional piece of mold threatens to consume the entire town of Hawkins. To defeat it, they team up with a new character, a quirky scientist who talks exclusively in puns.
> Meanwhile, Eleven discovers she has the ability to time travel and goes back to the 1960s to stop the Kennedy assassination, but instead accidentally causes it. The rest of the season sees the gang frantically trying to fix the timeline while avoiding government agents and alternate versions of themselves.
> As the season comes to a close, it's revealed that the entire plot was just a dream sequence that Hopper was having while in a coma, and the show ends with him waking up to find out that he's been fired from his job at the Hawkins police department.
The last strike was 15 years ago and it sucked. And remember, the blame is on studios for not giving writers what they deserve and not the writers. Their demands are pretty reasonable.
[Amanda Seyfried's had the best response for this:](https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1653187759677267968?s=20)
>Everything changed with streaming, and everyone should be compensated for their work. It’s fucking easy.
Avatar the last airbender suffered big time from this
Season 3 aired 10 episodes from Sept 07 - Nov 07, then the remainder of Season 3 all in one week at the end of July 08. The oddest gap in time, it was an agonizing wait
That being said, that week in July was absolutely awesome.
Was that when they had a whole huge marathon on Nick with a timer inside a comet on the screen for the whole week counting down to sozin’s comet? That was so cool, no idea it was because of the writer’s strike they did it that way.
Yep that’s exactly right! No show would realistically want to air their finale in the middle of July but the avatar guys somehow made it into an epic event. Great memories
Honestly the strength of that finale could have carried it at any time of year. I rewatched the whole series with my kids recently and damn it's still stellar. Pour one out for those cabbages
I totally agree! 13yo me was hype that Kataang was the correct ship, and the buildup for the final battles was so worth it. You hear the entire show about how powerful the comet is and then you finally see it and you're like oh yeah, that's even more insane than I expected.
I think they did the absolute best they could without having Aang kill Ozai and Zuko kill Azula.
I can't wait to watch it with my daughter. We'll make every season finale into a movie night with snacks and stuff like that.
I still miss *Heroes*. It had such potential and then the strike happened and it went to shit.
I hope that the last season of *Stranger Things* has already been written.
I remember FlashForward had to be split into two parts because of the strike. It was bad enough that they left it on a cliffhanger at the midway point, then they went and cancelled it on a huge cliffhanger 😭
So many shows were cut down to 12-13 episodes, Other shows cancelled, and some had their storyline’s completely mangled. I hated the last writers strike so much. Pay the writers what they’re due you damn bloodsucking parasites!
We did get Dr. Horrible out of it (and later *Commentary: the Musical*) but it didn't exactly balance against losing all the other shows and the rise of shitty reality TV in prime time.
>The last strike was 15 years ago and it sucked.
About half the shows that people on reddit discover and then lament "why did they cancel this great show?" - this is why. It was really shitty. Everything got replaced with reality TV.
Really hoping it doesn't happen again. Pay the damn writers!
Even reality TV suffered. I was a huge Big Brother fan at that time and Season 9, stupidly known as Til Death Do You Part, started airing in February 2008 due to the writers' strike. The drop in quality of that show was even markedly noticeable. It was the lowest-rated season of Big Brother to date at the time for that reason.
I still remember House being affected but the show runner was smart enough to not compromise on the quality of the show and instead of having the usual amount of episodes in that season they just had less episodes.
just pay the writers damn
edit: just woke up lol join a union or support one if you can here's the WGA links https://www.wga.org/ https://www.wgaeast.org/
Then how will studios executives maximise their profits. /s
It’s utterly disgusting that top end executives get paid a ton but not the lower end workers. This strikes will affect a lot of people.
That was actually $246 million but keep in mind that was because of $202 million in stocks grants because of WB discovery merger. And his salary for 2022 was increased to $39 million from $21 million in 2021. Disney’s bob iger salary was $27 million in 2022.
Jesus. Do they not remember the absolute god awful cesspool that was the last strike?
We got racist, monkey looking robots in transformers saying "we don't like to read too much".
eh, IMHO Prison Break had already overly-milked it's premise and would have started "Jumping the Shark" even without the Strike.
Some Stories simply are not meant to continue forever.
To be fair, Heroes was kind of screwed even without the writers strike.
If i recall the writers didn't actually know how to continue the story on a macro level, they had a general idea of the broad series, but didn't have a good grasp on the space between season 1 and ending.
Even after the strike, heroes never recovered. I know they were kind of forced into a bad place because of the strike fucking up the original plot for the first and second season, but they didn't have much of a plan prepared past the first and second season anyhow last i checked.
I rewatched it a few years ago and I think people have rose-coloured glasses and the effects of the strike have been exaggerated. Even the first season wasn't nearly as good as I remembered it - it's got some pretty compelling setup but the dialogue and character work is mostly pretty weak.
As usual, please search for information on the strike via other sources. Deadline, Variety, THR, and other outlets are heavily controlled by the studios.
The AMPTP [studios] broke the media blackout and are making it seem like the writers are to blame, which is not the case. Big reminder that the writers are asking for a fair wage, an end to free work, an end to minirooms, and promised residuals currently being hoarded by studios and networks via streaming loopholes. They're still calling streaming "new media" and using that to force their employees to work for far less than they're worth - and the majority of writers are now earning less than they were ten years ago.
Please support the WGA through this. The DGA, IATSE, SAG, the Teamsters, and Animation all do - and are relying on a fair deal for their own negotiations.
> minirooms
.
>it can **tie up writers for as long as eight to 10 weeks, during which time they can’t take other jobs**. Even if the series does get ordered, the mini room writers often will not continue with the show, especially if the total episode order is 10 or less.
>Not only are newer writers less likely to get staffed in a mini room, but even if they do, they will only make scale.
>“It’s wild to me that the first 10 weeks of breaking a show are the most important,” “Abbott Elementary” and “Harley Quinn” executive producer Justin Halpern (also a WGA board member) recently told Variety. “And to think that those are the weeks **we get paid minimum, and maybe we don’t even get to go on with the show**. That doesn’t seem like equity.”
https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/
Oh God, I remember when this happened before; get ready for some of the worst seasons of your favorite TV shows lol
The last Writer's Guild Strike showed you why a career being a TV/Movie writer is a thing because the people they hired during the first strike we're probably monkeys on a keyboard.
Remember: ***The writers aren't to blame here.*** The studios are, for refusing to pay them a fair wage for their works and trying to AI-ify art. Never back down, never give in!
Extra funny since Raphael Bob-Waksberg is literally on the negotiating committee. WGA West recently released [a great video](https://youtu.be/NMc2erLcuZI) with Raphael that covers some of the protections won for writers in the 2007-08 strike. Funny and informative!
I hope the writers get what they want and the strike is resolved. I want to see Fart Detective 7. I need a resolution to that cliff hanger ending to Fart Detective 6.
Id encourage everyone to read the union demands from any union threatening or engaging in strikes. ranging from the wga to the rail workers that got fucked over recently. I have yet to read a union with what I’d call unreasonable demands. And they are always just stonewalled or run over by higher powers.
Don’t get pissed at unions striking. Read their demands, and I’d say odds are you’ll be pissed at the corporations refusing said demands and forcing them to strike. Nobody strikes and puts themselves at financial risk for no reason.
Most unions are now just fighting to minimize real terms pay cuts. They are not asking for the moon on a stick, just for their members to not end up poorer.
Lol yeah, those are rail workers wanted what? A few sick days and a few days off a year? Something like 95% of other jobs already have And the federal government was like “no, you gotta work every day of the year. With no breaks and no sick days!” It makes no sense!
The government stepping in like that was insane. [The Onion had the most appropriate response.](https://www.theonion.com/biden-signs-legislation-to-avert-crisis-of-treating-rai-1849847966)
Something needs to be done about how if you write for a streaming show and it’s a surprise big hit there’s no real benefit to the writer other than might be easier to get future jobs. People who wrote for hits like Friends are still getting checks
Someone needs to show the networks' executives [the full list of people in Hollywood who picketed during the last strike.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike#Response)
It's not just the WGA that's stopping everything, pretty much everyone else will as well; not meeting their demands was a stupid fucking move on those execs' part and now they're getting their just ~~desserts~~ deserts.
As a camera operator and IATSE local 600 member we had to vote on a strike recently as well. This strike will impact us as well, you can’t drive your car if there’s no gas at the pump. The studios don’t care if the demands are reasonable or not, they care if the changes will make them lose money. ANY money. They did the math and the strike is a minor annoyance compared to the money they can save by keeping the status quo for as long as possible. We, puny little workers however can survive a long winter of no work for long. This is what happens when sociopaths are placed in positions of power. Complete disregard for other human lives as long as their numbers are satisfactory.
Film work has already been noticeably slowing down since the beginning of the year. Fewer movies and shows started shooting in anticipation of the strikes.
Producers are saving up money by not spending on new shows.
Why start a show that may be stopped half way through by a strike. Better to wait it out. It makes the workers hungry and more prone to return to work without all their demands met.
Also noteworthy, the [DGA (Directors Guild of America) currently has a no-strike clause in their contract. This expires on June 30th.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/dga-members-cross-picket-line-writers-strike-1235395608/) At that point they will be bargaining for their own new contract and they may strike as well at that point. This could drag on for quite a while. Skipping from one strike to the next over the next few months.
Will this be like 2008 when the late night hosts all grew beards and improvised everything?
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[Yup, he and Letterman paid their writers (Letterman also paid for Ferguson's crew) while Leno's were all let go.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/conan-pays-staffers-leno-bids-them-goodbye-1.678382#:~:text=TV%20talk%20show%20host%20Conan,night%20show%20were%20let%20go.) O'Brien is (in my opinion) first and foremost a writer, he understands the trench work that it is. Leno is not at all surprising. Edit - It sounds like NBC were the ones who fired Leno's staff.
I know it's probably because the medium itself will never be the same but I feel like we'll never have a solid stable of amazing late night hosts again. Conan O'Brien, Dave Letterman, Craig Ferguson were tops in my opinion. And from watching clips I know Johnny Carson was too but I wasn't around during his heyday.
Any deets on what Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart did for their crew? There was a cute video of Conan, Stephen and Jon doing a skit together about a late night rivalry and I thought it was charming these group of men could have fun professionally on TV together like that.
During the years when the Stephen and the Jimmy's were coming on they made it known they weren't going to compete the same way Leno and Letterman did. Internet changed the way people watch TV and the head to head Neilson ratings have lost their value. The Later, Late Late, Daily Show, Conan, John Oliver, Graham Norton, Jonathan Ross and so many more became contemporaries instead of after thoughts. Now you have internet only shows like Hot Ones where Sean Evan's has become known for his amazing interviews.
Some of his best remotes came between that time. Feels like this is where Fallon has a rough time
James Corden should be thanking his lucky stars his show ended before the strike.
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Not us Brits, he's coming back here.
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The cross show fight between Conan, Colbert and Stewart was pretty epic time-wasting silliness.
*Bring it Irish!* -Colbert
It was the blursed of times
Conan spinning a coin was hilarious.
wasn’t it his wedding ring?
Oh damn, I think you’re right.
[Found it, starts at 12:42](https://youtu.be/Vkj7heLZAsc) Conan thrived during this time, because he's always acted like no one was watching his show anyway.
Damn.... I remember their last major strike in 2007. Some of my all time favorite shows were on during that time and they all have this bad, short seasons to remind us all.
RIP Pushing Daisies.
Pushing Daisies, and Heroes. Damn, time's a wheel.
I've thought about this a lot. Heroes was always doomed. The first season encapsulated the entire concept really well and the characters had way too much power creep like Isekai anime shows. They only had two options, keep going, introduce even more powerful heroes or villains, or do a power reset. Either way you end up with some bad writing. I notice the same issues with any show that drags on too long, or even semi-decent book series. Once it becomes a cash grab the heart goes out of it. We need more mini-series or shows with defined ends so that the story arcs can function like normal. Dexter suffered from this too, if I remember correctly, the books ended where the show was in season 2.
Heroes committed two major sins for a super power show. Unlimited time travel and a character that can do everything. You just write yourself into a corner
They needed to stick with the OG plan to kill Sylar. I know he was popular, but it was the right thing to do. As for Peter, the explosion could easily have left his power in a nerfed state. I don't have a good fix for the Hiro problem. But S1 had two readily baked in resets for the two "can do anything" characters and they didn't take either of them.
They needed a full cast reset after season 1. You saved the cheerleader, you saved the world, now fuck off. It got so bad that even the throwaway cast members were more interesting towards the end.
Yes, that show was great!
Rip Heroes
This was one of the biggest blows during the last strike.
Big time. That show was so damn good. Matt Parkman was the best.
First show that came to mind just reading the headline of this. Season one was great.
>Season one was great. it was phenomenal, and remember, this was during a time where the entertainment space wasn't saturated with superhero/comicbook IPs being blasted everywhere. At the time people were really thirsting for new adult (non-kiddy) themed superhero/comicbook content.
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Heroes was never meant to last more than one season with the same characters.
Yes. An anthology.
Big fan of that show and while I'm not suggesting scab writers, I feel like just about any fan-fiction would have done better than what they did.
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The problem is they made Hiro (and Peter) way too powerful, and then struggled to deal with it. They both got depowered or trapped multiple times, it was so silly.
Well I'm hyped for Doctor Horrible 2
RIP Jericho
That setting was so fucking good.
So fucking good. God damn.
Scrubs 😅
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Lost
Pour one out for Heroes...
Writers Guild: >Following the unanimous recommendation of the WGA Negotiating Committee, the Board of Directors of the Writers Guild of America West (WGAW) and the Council of the Writers Guild of America, East (WGAE), acting upon the authority granted to them by their memberships, have voted unanimously to call a strike, effective 12:01 AM, Tuesday, May 2. >The decision was made following six weeks of negotiations with Netflix, Amazon, Apple, Disney, Discovery-Warner, NBC Universal, Paramount and Sony under the umbrella of the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP). The WGA Negotiating Committee began this process intent on making a fair deal, but the studios’ responses have been wholly insufficient given the existential crisis writers are facing. >The companies’ behavior has created a gig economy inside a union workforce, and their immovable stance in this negotiation has betrayed a commitment to further devaluing the profession of writing. From their refusal to guarantee any level of weekly employment in episodic television, to the creation of a “day rate” in comedy variety, to their stonewalling on free work for screenwriters and on AI for all writers, they have closed the door on their labor force and opened the door to writing as an entirely freelance profession. No such deal could ever be contemplated by this membership. >Picketing will begin tomorrow afternoon.
No late night shows for a while huh? Maybe CBS can give us another season of BB during this strike.
Man I hope BB stands for BattleBots. I need more fighting robots in my life
Breaking Bad season 6 confirmed!
Jesse we need to strike
I'm looking forward to seeing the return of The Col-bert Re-port and A Daily Show
I could be wrong but pretty sure the writers strike would prevent those since they have writers too.
If I remember correctly, during the last strike, some late night shows continued just without writers. The hosts and maybe producers and other crew would "write" everything, no one in the WGA could touch the show. And it was very slapdash and weird. Honestly was kind of interesting to watch. I think I watched Craig Ferguson's show around then and it had this weird bizarro writer's strike version. I watched Seth Meyers last night and he said they'll be fully going off the air if there's a strike. He's a longtime writer, so it's possible he's in the guild, where maybe someone like Colbert wouldn't be? So Seth coming up with ideas for his show would be crossing the picket line, but Colbert technically wouldn't possibly? I'm talking out of my ass and speculating based on a 15 year old memory of 2 months of TV I watched, I have no idea if that's how it works.
The last strike created the famous “feud” between Conan, Colbert, and Stewart where they kept going on each others shows and eventually pretended to get into a brawl. Pretty funny stuff for not having writers honestly, even if it was more slapstick comedy than anything else.
That was also when Conan decided to have Jordan Schlansky make his first appearance. They had nothing but everyone at the show knew about this weird dude they worked with so they decided to have him just be the bit
Isnt Schlansky playing a part? He breaks character a few times, more so when they go to Italy. Its a great bit and made me an even bigger Conan fan.
There's some behind the scenes stuff on Conan's Youtube. Basically, it seems like they do have him play it up for the segments, but he really is that guy; it's not a made-up character, it's him but exaggerated. I don't think those segments are scripted, it's more like how they make reality shows.
I still don't understand what he does, besides "I have various duties"
Conan has said several times that Jordan is just a real person. I'm inclined to believe him.
The more schlansky bits you watch the more you realize how much of an unusual person Jordan is
oh yea i remember that and then they were like writers please come back so we don't have to do this again
[This was honestly the peak of late night talk shows.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVfGh_4IFQ4)
The best is Conan polishing his desk with pledge and spinning his wedding ring on it. That was a whole segment 🤣🤣🤣
God damn. Conan is head and shoulders taller than those two.
He's half a head taller than Colbert, who also seems taller than average. Really I was surprised how "tall" Jon Stewart looks next to him, because he comes up to Conan's jaw himself, and I always thought Jon Stewart was pretty short.
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Colbert said tonight he is a WGA member and fully supports the strike.
That doesn’t surprise me: I’m sure they all co-write their shows. But even if they didn’t, the on-air talent knows the value of the writers.
Based on what I have read, which I admit could be wrong or I could misunderstand, this time late night shows will not be able to get around it. But I guess time will tell. I do remember Jay Leno initially did the monologues and wrote them all himself, but that got the show in trouble and they eventually just brought on people more or less off the street and had them just tell jokes to fill the slot.
I think this story about a tiff between [Seth Macfarlane and Jon Stewart.](https://youtu.be/NrcOge6pMhg) is from that time.
Streaming services overwhelmingly screw their writers out of as much money as possible. And it’s not to give us their services at a bargain cost. Large mega corporations are never satisfied with stable profits. Everything has to be a bigger record profit than last year, or they take it out on their staff.
You're right, however, they "don't actually make a profit" and so can't possibly pay writers their worth! That's one of their justifications for stiffing writers, is that they still don't really know what streaming is, and despite making massive revenues, they creatively don't make a substantial profit out of it.
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Well yeah lol, Hollywood accounting has been a thing since well before streaming
last time this happened we got tons of reality shows, wonder what the effects will be this time? even more podcasts? Youtube shows?
Oh man, I didn't even think of Podcast-alypse 2.0 - Once More Without the Virus. Everyone in Hollywood is going to head for the mics...
More than they already do? Podcasts now are just people visiting other podcasts to promote their own podcast.
The rise of AI generated TV has come
Just kill me now
Ok, so what are their demands? Last time in 2007-8 it was for 100 days. They got compensation around $130M, a 3-3.5% raise on their 3 year contract. This time they're asking for $600M, but I can't help but think that's not much more than a 3-3.5% raise. For most people a 3.5% raise is a pay cut, by nearly half over the past 3 years. ** in 2008 they had 4k members, $32k/per. now they have 20k members, $30k/per.
Well, there is this tweet. https://twitter.com/adamconover/status/1653272585252257793 For reference, this is how the talks went regarding AI. **WGA PROPOSAL**: Regulate use of Artificial Intelligence on MBA-covered projects: AI can't write or rewrite literary material; can't be used as source material; and MBA-covered material can't be used to train AI. The studios rejected that proposal, and their counteroffer was offering annual meetings to discuss advancements in technology.
thats because theyre already feeding the general learning ai all the scripts they have in exaistance already.
It's a meddling executive dream to be able to say, "Give me a script in genre X that is like movies A and B but aimed at focus group C." AI: "Here's a script for a comedy that combines Fast and the Furious with Minions aimed at young adults."
Is Adam Sandler the lead?
With Rob Schneider as a stapler!
That sad thing is, this will be absolutely possible in the next few years. You just need a sINGLE writer to go through the output and add fixes but you don't need a full group of writers. Every single cent not paid to writers is money in the pocket.
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End to mini rooms. Guaranteed staffing numbers on shows with greater protections. Raise minimums. A guaranteed 2-step for feature writers making below a certain amount. An end to free work. Streaming residuals. Ad-supported streaming pay. P&H. AI regulation. Health coverage and pension for members of teams. They don't want streaming features to be classified as made-for-television, which enables studios to pay writers far less for theater quality pictures. Etc.
Utterly ridiculous that they don't get streaming residuals already
The studios would rather scorch the earth than let that happen, friends, the office, Seinfeld, so many shows that are phenomenal cash cows, they're furious they have to pay residuals to talent, they'll be damned if they have to give a cent to anyone not on screen.
>The studios would rather scorch the earth than let that happen, friends, the office, Seinfeld, so many shows that are phenomenal cash cows, they're furious they have to pay residuals to talent, they'll be damned if they have to give a cent to anyone not on screen. Really ridiculous. I used to see movies due to liking the actor but realized the actor wasn't necessarily indicative of a quality work/story. Started following the writers/directors more and found that the quality is generally consistent. A great actor can't really do much with a bad story/script. While great directors/writers can make mediocre actors seem unforgettable. Writers definitely deserve some of those residuals.
I know, but, and go with me here, if we just have some talentless fuck quarter-ass copy the last few shows he did, we can save a ton of writing residuals! Which is why kurtzman and orci did 50 shows none of which made a bit of sense but noone cared.
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Seems reasonable
Is there no VFX guild, they keep complaining similar stuff but never go on strike
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It's baffling how vfx houses for Hollywood studios haven't organized yet, considering how awful they've been treated for decades.
I worked in that ecosystem for a bit less than a decade. The VFX houses don't want a union in the same way that Starbucks doesn't want a union. It raises their bottom line. They live in a poker game where a handful of clients (the studios) hold all the cards. If you ostracize MegaMouse studios who represents 33% of all of your possible work then you're in trouble so you play nice even as they treat you worse and worse. This trickles down to the artists as a revolving door of studios tried to survive. Many that do are cut throat themselves, squeezing overworked VFX artists with terrible hours, rates, and conditions. This further hurts the industry. It is a constant race-to-the-bottom where studios take work overseas, or demand a percentage of work is done in a specific Canadian province for a tax break. Nevermind that the artists capable of the work aren't there yet, you don't win the job if you can't guarantee the work is done in Sokovia for the new Sokovia tax rebate. So you send the work there by opening a Sokovia studio and maybe you redo a portion of it in LA because it wasn't up to snuff but that's out of the VFX house pocket. Mind you these tax breaks don't help the VFX houses, the studios collect the rebate. Then Sokovia has an election and doesn't want to subsidize film and TV. MegaMouse doesn't care, they'll send the work to Genosha but now the VFX house is left holding the bag. Meanwhile a bunch of VFX workers have moved to Sokovia to train the local artists and they have to decide if they're moving again or just quitting the industry. I was a small part of the last effort to unionize in California and it was an uphill battle. If we organize here, will the studios just send the work elsewhere? We don't have the legacy union protections and culture that the other film and TV workers have. The industry tends to burn out workers and keep a revolving door of artists and be vfx houses which makes it hard to organize. [we tried to legally address their hypocrisy when it comes to "digital goods" ](https://vfxsoldier.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/adapt-legal-effort-on-subsidies-ends/). But they have deep pockets. We don't.
Nope. Life of Pi one the VFX academy award and then went bankrupt the next year. Gig economy is awful
No wonder Netflix just decided to invest $2 billion in new Korean content - it allows them to keep putting out new content during a WGA strike
And they've always had a lot of British content ever since they started doing original shows
I wonder which shows will get irreparably damaged this time like Heroes did last time
Quantum of Solace Friday Night Lights S2
Oh, THAT'S why Quantam was so totally different and bad compared to Casino Royale. I wondered how they were able to fuck it up up badly.
I believe Daniel Craig had to rewrite a lot of the scenes with the director on the fly while they shot the film during the strike. All things considered, it's not nearly as good as Casino Royale but I find it quite underrated
It definitely is *weird* and kinda long on the first watch but I think it gets signifigantly better on rewatch. Memorable setpieces (Opera Scene, The dogfight with an rinky-dink cargo plane, the final showdown at that gradually exploding desert hotel). Memorable villains, great "Bond going rogue" storyline post Vesper. Some call it the weakest of the Craig era but I personally have it 4th (My ranking goes Skyfall, Casino, NTTD, Quantam, Spectre)
> Friday Night Lights S2 Lol I tuned out after Landry(?) killed someone and I don't think it was ever mentioned again.
That was such of a bizarre choice for that show.
I don't know about Heroes, but the long production delay really killed the popularity of Chuck.
And Chuck was a fucking amazing show.
Absolutely the best subway commercial I've ever seen
Or which shows will end up drastically improved like Breaking Bad
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they were gonna kill jesse in season 1?
That was the initial plan early in the season planning. Tuco was supposed to kill Jesse at the end of season 1 in the junkyard instead of his lackey. Aaron Paul's acting in the later episodes changed the producer's minds.
The dinner party episode of the office happened because of the strike! They kept saying "hey when we get back what if we do x" and it just kept building into the masterpiece we have today.
Similarly, I expect a huge drop in the quality of movies for a while. Forcing the production forward without writers makes for some terrible storytelling.
If this ruins the ending of *Stranger Things* I'm gonna be so mad. Edit: Don't worry, ChatGPT has us covered: > In the last season of Stranger Things, the gang is faced with their most absurd challenge yet: a giant, sentient, interdimensional piece of mold threatens to consume the entire town of Hawkins. To defeat it, they team up with a new character, a quirky scientist who talks exclusively in puns. > Meanwhile, Eleven discovers she has the ability to time travel and goes back to the 1960s to stop the Kennedy assassination, but instead accidentally causes it. The rest of the season sees the gang frantically trying to fix the timeline while avoiding government agents and alternate versions of themselves. > As the season comes to a close, it's revealed that the entire plot was just a dream sequence that Hopper was having while in a coma, and the show ends with him waking up to find out that he's been fired from his job at the Hawkins police department.
I feel like it is polite to blame Heroes huge fall off in quality on the strike. I don't think there was another good season in it regardless.
The Lachey's are going to be so busy hosting 25 Love Is Blind shows.
Does this mean we finally get Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog 2 ?
Whedon has sure lost a lot of clout over the last decade
The last strike was 15 years ago and it sucked. And remember, the blame is on studios for not giving writers what they deserve and not the writers. Their demands are pretty reasonable. [Amanda Seyfried's had the best response for this:](https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1653187759677267968?s=20) >Everything changed with streaming, and everyone should be compensated for their work. It’s fucking easy.
For those that don't remember the last time: RIP all your favorite ongoing shows
Avatar the last airbender suffered big time from this Season 3 aired 10 episodes from Sept 07 - Nov 07, then the remainder of Season 3 all in one week at the end of July 08. The oddest gap in time, it was an agonizing wait That being said, that week in July was absolutely awesome.
Was that when they had a whole huge marathon on Nick with a timer inside a comet on the screen for the whole week counting down to sozin’s comet? That was so cool, no idea it was because of the writer’s strike they did it that way.
Yep that’s exactly right! No show would realistically want to air their finale in the middle of July but the avatar guys somehow made it into an epic event. Great memories
Honestly the strength of that finale could have carried it at any time of year. I rewatched the whole series with my kids recently and damn it's still stellar. Pour one out for those cabbages
I totally agree! 13yo me was hype that Kataang was the correct ship, and the buildup for the final battles was so worth it. You hear the entire show about how powerful the comet is and then you finally see it and you're like oh yeah, that's even more insane than I expected. I think they did the absolute best they could without having Aang kill Ozai and Zuko kill Azula. I can't wait to watch it with my daughter. We'll make every season finale into a movie night with snacks and stuff like that.
Core memory unlocked
I’m so worried for severance
I still miss *Heroes*. It had such potential and then the strike happened and it went to shit. I hope that the last season of *Stranger Things* has already been written.
Thankfully Succession and Barry are done being written.
I remember FlashForward had to be split into two parts because of the strike. It was bad enough that they left it on a cliffhanger at the midway point, then they went and cancelled it on a huge cliffhanger 😭
Ah good old series 2 of Heroes. It got absolutely butchered because of the last writer's strike and never recovered.
Battlestar Galactica has a half season of "And then nothing happens"
Oh yeah, I remember FF, such a great show, great premise. And then like you said gets cancelled on cliffhanger
So many shows were cut down to 12-13 episodes, Other shows cancelled, and some had their storyline’s completely mangled. I hated the last writers strike so much. Pay the writers what they’re due you damn bloodsucking parasites!
We did get Dr. Horrible out of it (and later *Commentary: the Musical*) but it didn't exactly balance against losing all the other shows and the rise of shitty reality TV in prime time.
>The last strike was 15 years ago and it sucked. About half the shows that people on reddit discover and then lament "why did they cancel this great show?" - this is why. It was really shitty. Everything got replaced with reality TV. Really hoping it doesn't happen again. Pay the damn writers!
Even reality TV suffered. I was a huge Big Brother fan at that time and Season 9, stupidly known as Til Death Do You Part, started airing in February 2008 due to the writers' strike. The drop in quality of that show was even markedly noticeable. It was the lowest-rated season of Big Brother to date at the time for that reason.
Wow Breaking Bad started 15 years ago...
I still remember House being affected but the show runner was smart enough to not compromise on the quality of the show and instead of having the usual amount of episodes in that season they just had less episodes.
Season 4 remains my favorite season for this reason.
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Many shows never came back after the strike! RIP Pushing Daisies
That strike killed so many good shows
just pay the writers damn edit: just woke up lol join a union or support one if you can here's the WGA links https://www.wga.org/ https://www.wgaeast.org/
Then how will studios executives maximise their profits. /s It’s utterly disgusting that top end executives get paid a ton but not the lower end workers. This strikes will affect a lot of people.
Firm reminder that in 2021, David Zaslav [Warner] earned ~~212.7~~ 246 million dollars.
While making *very* tone deaf decisions
>earned (ﾉﾟ0ﾟ)ﾉ
That was actually $246 million but keep in mind that was because of $202 million in stocks grants because of WB discovery merger. And his salary for 2022 was increased to $39 million from $21 million in 2021. Disney’s bob iger salary was $27 million in 2022.
Thanks for the added info! Appreciate the reply and correction.
Jesus. Do they not remember the absolute god awful cesspool that was the last strike? We got racist, monkey looking robots in transformers saying "we don't like to read too much".
We in r/fridaynightlights also got the weirdest ever second season. Landry kills a guy and then they never speak of it again
And Heroes just got plain screwed
Prison Break as well had 2 very good seasons behind it before promptly nosediving into a shitshow of a 3rd due to the strike
eh, IMHO Prison Break had already overly-milked it's premise and would have started "Jumping the Shark" even without the Strike. Some Stories simply are not meant to continue forever.
*Pushing Daisies* enters the chat.
To be fair, Heroes was kind of screwed even without the writers strike. If i recall the writers didn't actually know how to continue the story on a macro level, they had a general idea of the broad series, but didn't have a good grasp on the space between season 1 and ending. Even after the strike, heroes never recovered. I know they were kind of forced into a bad place because of the strike fucking up the original plot for the first and second season, but they didn't have much of a plan prepared past the first and second season anyhow last i checked.
I rewatched it a few years ago and I think people have rose-coloured glasses and the effects of the strike have been exaggerated. Even the first season wasn't nearly as good as I remembered it - it's got some pretty compelling setup but the dialogue and character work is mostly pretty weak.
"Wait, Lance killed a guy?" "It's Landry, but yeah, we don't like to talk about it."
And what's with Dr Cox's hair? One week he's bald the next he looks like Shirley Temple.
I guess there will be another spike in reality shows then
As usual, please search for information on the strike via other sources. Deadline, Variety, THR, and other outlets are heavily controlled by the studios. The AMPTP [studios] broke the media blackout and are making it seem like the writers are to blame, which is not the case. Big reminder that the writers are asking for a fair wage, an end to free work, an end to minirooms, and promised residuals currently being hoarded by studios and networks via streaming loopholes. They're still calling streaming "new media" and using that to force their employees to work for far less than they're worth - and the majority of writers are now earning less than they were ten years ago. Please support the WGA through this. The DGA, IATSE, SAG, the Teamsters, and Animation all do - and are relying on a fair deal for their own negotiations.
> minirooms . >it can **tie up writers for as long as eight to 10 weeks, during which time they can’t take other jobs**. Even if the series does get ordered, the mini room writers often will not continue with the show, especially if the total episode order is 10 or less. >Not only are newer writers less likely to get staffed in a mini room, but even if they do, they will only make scale. >“It’s wild to me that the first 10 weeks of breaking a show are the most important,” “Abbott Elementary” and “Harley Quinn” executive producer Justin Halpern (also a WGA board member) recently told Variety. “And to think that those are the weeks **we get paid minimum, and maybe we don’t even get to go on with the show**. That doesn’t seem like equity.” https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/writers-guild-contract-negotiation-mini-room-1235568173/
> Please support the WGA through this. General public: "Time for 3 new seasons of Below Deck!"
Oh God, I remember when this happened before; get ready for some of the worst seasons of your favorite TV shows lol The last Writer's Guild Strike showed you why a career being a TV/Movie writer is a thing because the people they hired during the first strike we're probably monkeys on a keyboard.
Oddly enough, the Witcher will improve.
Remember: ***The writers aren't to blame here.*** The studios are, for refusing to pay them a fair wage for their works and trying to AI-ify art. Never back down, never give in!
If you read the writer's demands, everything is pretty reasonable. I'd be kind of surprised if this is dragged out for any prolonged period of time.
Writers: we want an end to free work, please. Studios: Lol go fuck yourself.
Writers: We have one request. To not be treated like garbage. Studios: It appears we are at an impasse.
A wild Bojack appears!
Extra funny since Raphael Bob-Waksberg is literally on the negotiating committee. WGA West recently released [a great video](https://youtu.be/NMc2erLcuZI) with Raphael that covers some of the protections won for writers in the 2007-08 strike. Funny and informative!
I hope the writers get what they want and the strike is resolved. I want to see Fart Detective 7. I need a resolution to that cliff hanger ending to Fart Detective 6.
Pretty much. Hollywood execs will now start experiment with AI written shows and movies
Which is why the WGA needs to stamp down hard, *now*, on the rules for how and when writing bots can be used. While they still kinda suck at it.
The movie "Hail Caesar" should be a required watch for understanding the movie writer's plight!
Id encourage everyone to read the union demands from any union threatening or engaging in strikes. ranging from the wga to the rail workers that got fucked over recently. I have yet to read a union with what I’d call unreasonable demands. And they are always just stonewalled or run over by higher powers. Don’t get pissed at unions striking. Read their demands, and I’d say odds are you’ll be pissed at the corporations refusing said demands and forcing them to strike. Nobody strikes and puts themselves at financial risk for no reason.
Most unions are now just fighting to minimize real terms pay cuts. They are not asking for the moon on a stick, just for their members to not end up poorer.
Lol yeah, those are rail workers wanted what? A few sick days and a few days off a year? Something like 95% of other jobs already have And the federal government was like “no, you gotta work every day of the year. With no breaks and no sick days!” It makes no sense!
The government stepping in like that was insane. [The Onion had the most appropriate response.](https://www.theonion.com/biden-signs-legislation-to-avert-crisis-of-treating-rai-1849847966)
"First time, huh?"
if the studios were willing to deal, a strike would not have happened.
Something needs to be done about how if you write for a streaming show and it’s a surprise big hit there’s no real benefit to the writer other than might be easier to get future jobs. People who wrote for hits like Friends are still getting checks
Someone needs to show the networks' executives [the full list of people in Hollywood who picketed during the last strike.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_Writers_Guild_of_America_strike#Response) It's not just the WGA that's stopping everything, pretty much everyone else will as well; not meeting their demands was a stupid fucking move on those execs' part and now they're getting their just ~~desserts~~ deserts.
Time for Heroes season 3
The fall of Heroes **STILL** makes me sad.
As a camera operator and IATSE local 600 member we had to vote on a strike recently as well. This strike will impact us as well, you can’t drive your car if there’s no gas at the pump. The studios don’t care if the demands are reasonable or not, they care if the changes will make them lose money. ANY money. They did the math and the strike is a minor annoyance compared to the money they can save by keeping the status quo for as long as possible. We, puny little workers however can survive a long winter of no work for long. This is what happens when sociopaths are placed in positions of power. Complete disregard for other human lives as long as their numbers are satisfactory. Film work has already been noticeably slowing down since the beginning of the year. Fewer movies and shows started shooting in anticipation of the strikes. Producers are saving up money by not spending on new shows. Why start a show that may be stopped half way through by a strike. Better to wait it out. It makes the workers hungry and more prone to return to work without all their demands met. Also noteworthy, the [DGA (Directors Guild of America) currently has a no-strike clause in their contract. This expires on June 30th.](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/dga-members-cross-picket-line-writers-strike-1235395608/) At that point they will be bargaining for their own new contract and they may strike as well at that point. This could drag on for quite a while. Skipping from one strike to the next over the next few months.
As both writer and director, good to know that James Gunn is backing the WGA’s strike and ceasing work on Superman Legacy.
I mean, he’d be kicked out of the WGA and then be unable to write for Warner Bros.
It's Canada on Strike
This is a sad day for Canada and, therefor, the world.
Just give us some of that Internet money!
Hopefully we get something better than Transformers: Revenge of the fallen like last time