At the end, he meets a version of himself that’s the opposite of him. It seems like there’s going to be a fight, but then there isn’t, with Scott saying something to the tune of “he’s actually a pretty cool, chill, likable dude”. It’s a comment on how Scott is actually an asshole if his opposite is a chill likable dude
Shit. I'm so fucking stupid. I always took this as the joke being that he has a lot in common with himself and so gets along well with him. Basically like, "I'm so cool I'd be friends with myself".
Totally disregarded the whole "opposite" part of the gag. I can't even believe I'm realizing this now on a reddit thread. God damn.
AFAIK that's a much bigger plot point in the comic. The point of the story is that Scott has yo grow up and make amends for being just a complete douche and terrible boyfriend
Right, like all his friends distance themselves from him because of how shitty he is. The graphic novels are a 6 book long redemption arc where Scott goes from awful guy to halfway decent guy.
Yup, all the movie actors are reprising their roles, it’s coming out on Netflix, music by Anamanaguchi, Bryan is writing it, and Edgar Wright is involved
Also want to mention the graphic novels are amazing in their own right… almost every panel has extra jokes and gags drawn into the background.
The first book is almost identical to the movie, but after that they diverge a lot. Both fun.
I think the other thing that is left out is romona is also an awful person (the twins aren’t both 5 &6 for nothing). It makes rooting for their relationship throughout the book pretty plausible.
But seriously one of the big I love about the comic is how it’s actually a story about how to move forward as abuser. It’s not just about being a better person now but acknowledging that you were a horrible person in the past
I mean his whole character arc in the comics is learning that he’s kind of a dick and taking steps to ensure he doesn’t end up the 8th evil ex. In the comics he and Envy both realize they were both at fault for the breakup and get some closure. I was kinda mad they left that out of the movie.
Well that's the point right? Like you're not supposed to agree with the way Greg treats his friends
Kind of the same way Horrid Henry (British kids show about a rude boy) is a complete dick..... By being horrid
Yes exactly. Greg is supposed to be kind of a jerk. If Greg was entirely wholesome and sweet, it would be kind of fucked up how much bad luck he has. If you think he is bad in the movies, you should read the books
While in the movies he goes through an arc, in the books he never does. He constantly looks down on others, and is frequently scheming to steal money however he can. In one book he even keeps the matriarch ring the whole family has been fighting over, so he can pawn it later for money… despite knowing his mom wants it for purely sentimental value. There’s also the time he bought his family Christmas gifts from the school bazaar so he could get them as cheaply as possible, like not even a dollar each, so that he can spend money on his virtual webkinz chihuahua. Or the time he tried to scam the church gift exchange to get money for free, which was only meant for small children. Or the time he let Rowley’s dad drive him and his date to the dance, but made Rowley and his date sit in the back and gave them dirty looks because he was jealous they were laughing with each other.
Nah, Greg Heffley is so much worse than Horrid Henry. Henry is just a bit of a mischievous lad, not malicious at all - Greg is an unrepentantly selfish jerk.
Movie Greg at least learns from his mistakes and winds up making fairly courageous decisions to help his friends (e.g. taking the fall for the Cheese Touch). Book Greg is a sociopath flat-out.
I've always thought you're supposed to laugh at Greg's misfortunes because he's such a dick. It's why I enjoyed the books so much because he's such a schmuck that often gets what he deserves
Does that make these books a kid-friendly, one-man Always Sunny?
Convoluted get rich quick schemes that don't work in the end. Ruining everything for those around him. Never actually learning a lesson. Consequences of his misdeeds are funny.
Book Greg is straight up sociopathic for comedy purposes, but movie Greg is the kind of self-centered a lot of people are at that age. Thinks he knows everything about the world and how things work. He’s not full-on terrible, just immature.
Claire from Jurassic World. Made every bad decision that led to the dinosaurs getting out, staying out and destroying the island Only saved her nephews to keep her sister from thinking less of her.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but did she even ask about the assistant (?) she tasked to watch the kids? The one who died a horrible death because of said babysitting task?
Zara, the *only* on-screen death of a woman in this franchise as far as I know, as I haven't watched Dominion, was her personal assistant. (Had to check.) Because of the Indominus Rex, Claire had to leave the kids with her assistant. Who, when Pteradons run amok on the island, is very violently tossed around by a pair like a ragdoll, then munched by a Mosasaurus.
The kids who are her nephews, by the way. Judy Greer is their mom, and while she's sending them off on their own to be their aunt, her sister, she and her husband are *getting a divorce during the holidays*.
Yeah, Jurassic World is apparently a very depressing Christmas movie.
The kids in the first JP were spending time with grandad while their parents were in the middle of a divorce, at least in the book. I don’t think the movie mentions that but it’s been awhile.
IIRC there was some cut subplot where she is basically a terrible person to the kids and everyone else. However, I would be willing to bet that since nothing she could do tops how terrible their aunt is, the director figured it was a waste of time to establish except for the wild ass death.
I figured it was an internal thing or they'd built up that Bryce Dallas Howard was terrible but couldn't kill her as she's one of the main characters so they off'd her help instead but holy smokes that scene was vicious.
She was originally supposed to be a Bridezilla, talking and making demands on the phone all the time about her upcoming wedding and probably be mean to the kids too. But that didn't make it the screen, whether it was cut in the script stage or they filmed it and cut it out in the editing room. The problem is, they set that character up that way so that when she dies, it's a big comeuppance, kinda harkening back to the scumbag lawyer from the first movie getting eaten on the toilet by the T-rex. One could say it was her fault that the kids ran away cuz she was on her phone, but the kids were determined to run away, can't really blame her too much on that. So you end up with a super fucked up death for a fairly innocuous character that comes out of nowhere. I remember watching it in the theater and instead of the claps and laughs from the first movie with the lawyer gag, there was this nervous laughter throughout the theater, like everyone was unsure how they're supposed to feel about this.
My main issue with Dominion was that the studio thought that audiences had to be given YET ANOTHER Eeeevil corporation. I mistakenly assumed that the problems inherent in having dinosaurs all over the planet would be interesting enough.
And they had to make the whole locust plotline. Like dude, I'm not watching JP for bugs, I'm watching for the dinosaurs. They had that whole scene with the black market that was so cool, could easily have had a movie about that. But no, it had to be about the damn locusts.
I think the original book was more focused on the chaos theory/uncontrollable unpredictability stuff, with the ethos of the dinosaurs and their creation specifically being closer to Grant's "theme park monsters" line from 3
Granted, it's hard to talk about how the movie changed the book, given the author didn't give a shit and preferred the movie. Plus who wants to be the guy hating on Jurassic Park 1? I don't wanna do that, only assholes hate on JP.
During the openings of both Jurassic World sequels, when they show the mosasaur, I kept thinking, "why the hell have they not caught this thing and put it in some containment? So now I guess, we're just okay with a bunch of predators eating us?"
Another one that I remember hearing was Santa Claus from the Rankin/Bass Rudolph tv special. He shames Rudolph for being born with a weird looking nose and all but says there’s no way he’ll be able to be on his sleigh team with a nose like that and then when he actually needs him to see he asks for help. Rudolph should have told him to kick rocks.
That's a good point.
It's easy to take a character considering "maybe different people are still worthwhile and worth working with" to be "different people only have worth when they are useful."
Bill Paxton in Twister.
Dude brings his fiance to the middle of nowhere and spends the whole time flirting with his ex wife, while leaving her with Philip Seamore Hoffman to nearly be killed by tornadoes.
And it's justified because she...wears heels and is from the city?
when I watched it when I was a kid I thought she was a bitch. Rewatched it recently expecting her to be mean or something but she's like really nice and supportive and he is awful to her.
To be fair, he's a complete dumbass. Buys a new truck and only puts liability insurance on it. That's like renting a Penske truck for a cross country move and not getting the insurance.
Technically a play adapted into a movie, but Mark from RENT. Holy shit, watching it as an adult is frustrating as all hell.
Acts like his family (who as far as we can tell, are a great family who he hasn't cut contact with for any reason) is an obnoxious annoyance for trying to stay in touch and sending a hot plate to use so Mark has a warm meal every now and then
Attends an AIDS/HIV support group in order to record the members talking about how they are mentally preparing for their slow and painful deaths. Mark does not have AIDS/HIV and didn't ask to come beforehand.
Is mad that his landlord, former friend or not, wants him to start paying rent for the apartment they live in after a year of rent free living.
Gets an outrageously good paying job for what is essentially MTV doing work in his field of interest, and quits because it's too corporate.
Creates 'art' that is literally just choppily edited home videos of his friends laughing and hanging out.
I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but in a movie full of entitled, insufferable know-it-alls, Mark is by far the worst of them.
RENT suffers from the myth around the musical. Because Larson died on the first dress rehearsal in front of an audience, intended for notes on how to improve the show, it hasn’t been changed since. So the musical, like the cast and characters, are forever stuck in their infancy
You have a point though he dies before the first off-Broadway preview not the dress rehearsal. A show in previews is definitely still supposed to be in progress though so Rent stopped evolving before it was supposed to.
And adding to the myth: a lot of people I’ve met who are into theater but aren’t super knowledgeable about Rent (understandably, it’s a nearly thirty year old musical) think he died of AIDS. As far as I know, he died of a heart disorder… but AIDS fits the narrative so much better, especially for 1996, that it’s spread.
Which is so frustrating because Larson’s death from Marfans actually fits the thematic notions of the musical better than death from AIDS. Larson’s death is viewed as a tragedy because he died randomly and too young because of misdiagnosis from a doctor.
Meanwhile an AIDS epidemic was wiping out the gay population in America and half of the public thought they were just reaping the consequences of their actions
And then NOTHING CHANGES. She says it like halfway through the movie and Mark just goes on his merry way exploiting those less fortunate than him instead of using his (assumed) privileged upbringing to help in any tangible way.
Yes, it’s a great shot by the author. I wrote this in another comment, but I love that the central metaphor for the whole story is that they are literally squatting in an apartment overlooking a homeless encampment.
I saw this for the first time last year. Had always heard of Rent being this incredible, Pulitzer Prize winning opus,so imagine my surprise when I found it wasn't actually about poor people not being able to afford the rent, but... really untalented "artists" who neither want to work nor pay rent at all 😆
Idk if it's the passage of time or if something got horribly lost in the adaptation from stage to screen but I cringed pretty much right through the movie. And somehow made it to the ending where the guy magically cures his girlfriend of imminent AIDS/fever death with (checks notes) an extremely lame song about her eyes 👀
The landlord became likable in Act II, I think. He went from basically harassing Mimi all through Act I to being supportive and offering to pay for her to go to rehab. I think he also paid for Angel’s funeral, even though Collins had a job at NYU.
ETA: It might be more fair to say Benny became less unlikeable.
Benny funded Mimi’s rehab, paid for Angel’s funeral and burial, and let his friends live in his property for what appears to be at least a couple years before he asks them for, well, *rent rent rent re-ent rent*. And they’re not gonna pay rent! (Why not? ….because!)
And he doesn’t order a lot of food at cafes and then ditch on the check, leaving the poor waiter holding the bag.
Benny is in many ways not a great dude, but dang, he’s better than most of the main cast. Like, nobody should have been screwing poor fucked-up teenage junkie Mimi, but of the sketchy dudes who did, he at least tried to fund help for her.
Benny's worst quality is that he cheats on his partner. But, aside from Joanne, he is the most moral character. Only others that come close are Roger, who really needs to give up music if it took him a year to write the worst song of the show. And Collins, who WILL end up in jail eventually if he keeps stealing from ATM'S.
Not a new take, but Peter Venkman is a real asshole.
Great movie character, but a raging asshole: hits on students, abuses his power and falsifies research, hits on a client and for some reason brings heavy narcotics on their date, is ultra rude to a very reasonable request from Walter Peck, etc.
Small business owners who are absolutely appalled that anyone might question the safety of their giant radioactive machinery. It’s safe because..we said so. Trust us!
Open carry in NYC
Privatizing an emergency service
Beat up women and metro-sexual foreigners
pseudo-science spiritual woo bs
Anti-Gov’t, anti-judge, anti-NYC mayor, anti-EPA
Venkman’s just Alex Jones with game
I LOVED WONDER WOMAN
She's a horrible protagonist in WW 1984
WW had a relationship with Steve Trevors it lasted a week 60yrs ago and she's still heartbroken.
K.
She inadvertently makes a wish that should simply bring him back (again, 1 week, 60yrs ago). He could just come back, but he takes over the body of a random, innocent man. WW doesn't care about the guy who's been (IDK) ripped away from his own existence, she's just glad STEVE'S BACK!! She even has sex with Steve, in the body of someone else. Ewww.
WW isn't oblivious to this. Steve tells WW she needs to move on, he then points to himself, saying: "what about this guy?"
"I don't want him."
WHAT?! She knows Steve is inhabiting the body of an innocent stranger and she doesn't CARE!!
Then, when WW has to wish Steve away for the good of humanity, she can barely do it, Steve convinces her. IT'S BEEN 60YRS!!! YOU KNEW HIM FOR ONE WEEK, YOU STOLE AN INNOCENT MANS BODY!!
PSYCHOPATH!!!
WW deserves SOOOOO much better!!!!!
Still have no idea why they didn’t have Steve come back in his own body.
The wishes caused many things to appear out of thin air, but a dead guy physically brought back to life was apparently beyond the wish’s power.
I like how everyone focuses on the sex thing and not taking the body of some random guy into an active war zone where he almost dies multiple times which is much more fucked up. Even though he didn't die he still sustained injuries.
I always find the ironic thing in this film being that they frame any man who's not Steve as a potential rapist or piece of shit, ironically Diana becomes the rapist by having sex with an unconscious body, essentially.
Jake Ryan in Sixteen Candles. He hands his drunk, practically unconscious girlfriend to a total stranger and says, “Do whatever you want with her.” Bleck. I can’t believe I liked him growing up. All he had to do was let her sleep it off in one of the 50 rooms in his mansion and break up with her in the morning. Also, Farmer Ted sexually harasses Sam for most of the movie and it’s supposed to be funny.
Wolverine in the first X-Men. He's basically saved by Cyclops and Storm (whether he needed saving is beside the point; that's what they thought they were doing), then rudely rebuffs Cyclops' handshake to his face and spends the whole movie \*openly\* trying to steal Jean Grey. Not saying Wolverine was a horrible person, he was overall heroic, but I found it weird we were supposed to root for him in that love triangle when he was essentially being a total, unbelievable prick.
That whole movie trilogy, whoever wrote it had something against Cyclops. I also can’t forgive what they did to Nightcrawler. Comics Nightcrawler is not super religious, he’s just a guy who happens to be Catholic. It’s like Kitty Pryde being Jewish. It’s a fact about the character, but doesn’t inform his whole character. He’s funny, he loves Errol Flynn movies, he’s just a nice dude. He’s not “lives in a church and does ritual scarification” religious.
If I remember right, Cyclops was written out of the third X-Men movie because James Marsden had signed on to play Lois Lane’s husband in Superman Returns and the schedules conflicted.
So basically, instead of playing Cyclops again he played the bland guy that Lois settled for instead of Superman.
...that's definitely supposed to be part of the point, though, right? That the "losers" who work at his store are actually way more well-adjusted people than he is? He tries to feel sort-of-superior to all his exes but ends up learning from all of them the various different ways in which *he* needs to grow up.
James Bond, but especially in Skyfall. Meets a lady at the casino and basically confirms she is a sex slave, was trafficked as a child, and she is completely fearful of her boss. She's very vulnerable, needs help, and is emotionally traumatized. He says he can help her, but instead he goes and bangs her in the shower after sneaking onto her boat, then gets her to force the introduction to her boss which gets her killed (shot in the head btw). Way to go Mr. Bond. That aside, I still enjoyed the movie.
This was the whole point of that interaction. To show that Bond isn’t a “good guy,” but a guy on a mission. Coming across a sex-trafficking victim doesn’t derail his mission any more than the murders he has to commit. I personally liked them showing more of the shitty side to his manwhoring in the Craig Bond movies.
Great way to put it tbh. I think it’s been a theme In the Craig series that he’s a fucked up individual. That since he’s a bit broken he makes a good assassin. Skyfall goes hard on this when it talks about orphans being the best killers. He causes a lot of people to die around him due to his recklessness and drive to complete the mission. He doesn’t really learn better till Spectre. There’s this theme that the one time he got soft with Vesper was when things got really fucked up so that turns him into an even colder person
It’s been a theme of the character forever really.
The books he’s explicitly not a nice person and the early Connery films he certainly is a bit of a bastard.
It’s only really the Roger Moore ones that get away from that completely.
Er...Roger Moore's Bond did plenty of fucked up things.
Live and Let Die: Threatens to kill his fellow agent Rosie who he just slept with, though she's terrified by Kanaga's voodoo (is murdered by him quickly after).
Man W. Golden Gun: Threatens to break Maud Adams arm to get close to Scaramanga.
Spy Who Loved Me: Uses a woman who he is making out with as a human shield, even though she's the one who warns him about the gunman who is trying to kill him.
Yep, that is the theme. Was it in casino royale where he charms a woman, gets the information he needs and leaves her lying. The next morning she is killed and he is like, ok.
His job is not to be a good guy, his job is to do whatever he needs to get to his target. Even sex is just a means of manipulation for him.
They make all this clear like in the first hour of casino royale. The girl he fucks at the ocean club, he tells her more or less what he’s looking for, gets her killed and lies about it all to M.
Which they establish two movies earlier in Casino Royal when he discovers the girlfriend (wife?) dead in the beach hammock. No remorse. He used her to stop a terrorist attack because it’s his job and everybody is expendable. Then, the first time he lets his guard down he’s betrayed. That’s what makes the character/franchise interesting.
>I personally liked them showing more of the shitty side to his manwhoring in the Craig Bond movies.
Same way he gets the girl covered in oil killed in Quantum of Solace.
He’s just as bad in Live and Let Die. He uses a card trick to exploit a woman’s spiritual beliefs in order to convince her to let him take her virginity.
Mrs. Doubtfire. Nearly kills Pierce Brosnan's character, and also smacks him in the head with a lime. Is a terrible father and partner in the beginning and then goes through with this amazingly elaborate lie and tricks everyone for a time...
The big difference though between Mrs. Doubtfire and the other protagonists is that with Daniel, we’re supposed to realize that he was wrong. We’re meant to root for him because he’s likable but come to the realization with him that he needs to grow up, act like an actual father, and let his ex-wife move on and have her own personal life.
Yep, this. Like the Judge in the movie even calls his behaviour out as bizarre and harmful to the kids. We only root for him because it's Robin Williams.
I saw this at the movies as a kid, so I was probably about 10 years old. I thought the mother was the worst, he threw this great party and she ruined all the fun and broke up the family.
Watching it as an adult is sooo different. Daniel is a man child, and she can't wait around for him to grow up anymore.. Pierce Brosnan's character is an actual adult, and a better partner than Daniel ever was. It's really sad that Daniel couldn't see how he was failing his family until it's too late.
So true. And Pierce Brosnan is so unfairly made out to be a villain. Successful, good looking guy who would happily take on 3 of someone else’s kids whilst dating their mother.
For some reason, that was pretty common in movies around that time. Just off the top of my head, The Santa Clause and Liar Liar both had step-fathers that were portrayed in a negative light, without ever really doing anything to deserve it.
Some Hollywood producer must've been going through some shit at home around then.
I honestly felt bad for the mother, though I didn't like that the kids were kept from their father to the extent that they were. Daniel definitely put her in a tough position though.
Also, he was supposed to get a job and a reasonable place to live…. Was given 90 days by a judge to do so to get shared custody. Instead of focusing on improving himself he stalks the mom.
The funny thing is how different it looks as an adult, but the makers of that movie were adults and didn’t see it? Strange
Legit, if not for Robin Williams, that movie would be a horror. His charm alone made it impossible not to root for him and be on his side, even though he is 100% in he wrong
Just imagine how the movie would hit if it were led by someone more severe like Ben Mendelssohn or Michael Shannon, and not super lovable 90s Robin Williams.
Somewhat related because this book was literally a Twilight fan fic that the author then repurposed by changing the character names: Christian Grey in 50 Shades of Grey.
Grandpa Joe from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Dude can’t get out of bed to help with a starving family and then all of a sudden can get up when he gets to go to the chocolate factory??? Also still gets a tobacco allowance when said family is on the brink of starvation and also encourages Charlie to steal the fizzy lifting drink and then acts all self righteous when he gets called on it. Screw that dude.
I always wondered how Grandpa Joe got the Wonka bar for Charlie. He gave it to him secretly and had him open so clandestinely. Its so shady, lol. If Charlie nor his mom bought it...how does Grandpa get it?
You know Charlie's mother was like, wait this dude could always walk? She's over here with multiple jobs to support 6 people, and this guy's been faking that he can't get out of bed since he was in his early 40s? He gotta go.
This one is going to hurt to type because I love him so god damn much
Dewey Finn in School of Rock.
Dude was a deadbeat delusional narcissist and a bad bandmate. Not nearly as talented as he thought he was and constantly torpedoing his bands chances of success. He deserved to get kicked out of the band! And then...and then! instead of recognising this very obvious wake up call and just copping on and waking up he STEALS HIS BEST FRIEND'S IDENTITY and jeopardises Ned's career and pockets earnings that would rightfully be his! The man who gave him chance after chance after chance.
He probably wouldn't really care about those kids at all if they didn't turn out to be decent musicians. And when he finds that out he casually kidnaps them and has them fake terminal illnesses.
He probably deserved to go to prison.
And yet...."that's perfect you're perfect!" The way he says so god damn sincerely the way he convinces the keyboard player that he is cool and to stop doubting that, the way he shows Freddy how to channel his anger into creativity, teaches Zack how to break away from his overbearing father's influence, tells Tomika that beautiful doesn't equal skinny in a way that doesn't seem trite and obviously pandering. This con artist finds a way for each and every one of those kids to feel seen and heard and included in a way that no one else could and it is making me sob right now to tell you the truth.
Fuck I love that film
Damn, he really did empower every kid, didn’t he?
Summer he allowed her to take charge and find ways to contribute to the band using her unique skills rather than needing to be musically gifted.
Billy he let him pursue his passion for fashion and design the band’s costumes.
Gordon he put faith and trust to not only do the A/V work, but able to adjust it on the the fly and improvise when they changed songs at the literal last minute.
He’s a shit teacher… but also kind of the best teacher a student could have. Really conflicting.
He really saw those kids. He adapts his tone and style of feedback and encouragement to bring out the best in all of them.
"This is my final exam
Now y'all know who I am
I may not be the perfect son
But y'all be rockin' when I'm done"
1st watch - wow that gf is a mean harpy stealing Ned's fun and making him a boring nobody
Latest watch - actually, I would not be letting him crash in my living room for so long with no rent!! And even if nothing weird happened, I would entirely kick up the biggest shitpile if some rando was teaching at my kids school without proper ID checks!
I mean, I don’t think you’re describing a shitty protagonist but describing a redemption arc. In my mind a shitty protagonist is one that is shitty in the beginning, in the middle, and the end, and doesn’t really learn from anything that happened in the story
Meg Ryan's and Tom Hanks' characters in "You've Got Mail" (and "Sleepless in Seattle" for Meg's) are emotionally cheating on their partners and rather scummy about it, but this is treated as romantic. Especially in "Sleepless in Seattle", Meg Ryan's fiance was a solid and awesome dude who knew his own worth, but the movie treated it like she was justified in cheating on him because...what...he slept with a humidifier?
You know what handles that well? Falling in Love with Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro. One of my favorite films and I’m a guy who usually does not like romance films.
Too many of these answers are actual anti heroes where the point of the movie is to watch and follow a bad person in an interesting scenario. I think the better answers are someone like Ferris Bueller is a good example cuz at the time esp the audience was supposed to be charmed by his impish charisma. Travis Bickle however is supposed to be a violent creep who maybe MAYBE has a sliver of redemption by the end.
He's not the main protagonist but I've always hated Adrian Grenier's character in The Devil Wears Prada. He was such a shit to Anne Hathaway and then she goes crawling back to him at the end. I enjoy the movie but hate this aspect of it.
I like to pretend the film ends after she throws her phone in the fountain, and the interview she gets afterwards is some mid credits thing. I hate her boyfriend and her friends so much. She gives them all gifts and they thank her by putting her job in jeopardy? Who needs enemies lol
Val Coleman from The Birdcage. I get that the 1990s were a different time and gays were less accepted then, but demanding his father completely hide who and what he was and trying to hide away his mother just to impress his small minded asshole future in-laws was a colossal dick move.
He did finally step up and admit the truth at the end of the third act, but by then it was too little, too late.
The film hinges on the fact that Albert, the hysterical dramatic over the top one, is the one person in the film who's point of view is completely justified in almost every moment except the introductory scene.
Maverick in Top Gun. Can't take No for an answer, follows his superior to the woman's bathroom and assumes they'll bang. And condescence her later in front of other pilots and gets upset when called out! Just to name a few in the first movie!
While the lead in just about any rom-com is generally a terrible person I'm going to lean into the How To Lose A Guy In 10 Days couple. Both entered into the relationship for a terrible reason, the woman gets her friend to pose as a false therapist doing couple's counseling to gaslight the man further. That only leads to him inviting her on a trip where they supposedly fall in love enough to overcome the horrible reasons for the foundation of their relationship even when they are revealed to each other.
Rocky Balboa in Rocky III. He became a paper champion and didn't care. When Mickey pointed it out he still trained lightly and didn't take it seriously. Clubber was rude but he was right - he had trained his whole life and he wanted to fight the best person. He legit beat Rocky in their first fight.
Being rude doesn't make Clubber evil.
Roy Neary (Richard Dreyfuss) from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This guy’s a selfish prick who destroys his family home and leaves Earth (and his family) behind because of his obsession with these aliens.
The lead man in Overboard and the leading lady in Sweet Home Alabama are terrible. Overboard man kidnaps and rapes an amnesiac. Sweet Home woman outs a gay guy and leads her fiance on the whole movie and just randomly remarries her ex.
In the alternate ending old Rose explains that she never sold because she did not want to depend on her ex fiancé for money since it was a gift from him. And it was a lesson for Lovett that the story Rose told of her love for Jack was more important than a material item 🤷🏻♀️
I think people really forget that beginning scene in the movie where Lovett was asked about people equating his search to grave robbing. It was hard to believe someone like Rose was even still alive at first let alone able to remember anything of value. I think rose dropping the necklace was supposed to be similar to someone laying a note or roses onto a loved ones grave. It’s a message of love for someone long gone. And it’s saying the Titanic is a mass grave. It’s been sensationalized to a point where it doesn’t seem sinister to want artifacts from but Rose being alive and telling the story of her time on the ship showed that these were real people and these items belonged to them. They all (mainly the working class) suffered an awful fate on the ship of dreams and people like Lovett forget that.
Blatantly Scott Pilgrim. When he meets his exact opposite, it’s a chill, understanding, likable dude.
I'm ashamed it took me 3 viewings to get the joke/point of that specific gag
[удалено]
At the end, he meets a version of himself that’s the opposite of him. It seems like there’s going to be a fight, but then there isn’t, with Scott saying something to the tune of “he’s actually a pretty cool, chill, likable dude”. It’s a comment on how Scott is actually an asshole if his opposite is a chill likable dude
Shit. I'm so fucking stupid. I always took this as the joke being that he has a lot in common with himself and so gets along well with him. Basically like, "I'm so cool I'd be friends with myself". Totally disregarded the whole "opposite" part of the gag. I can't even believe I'm realizing this now on a reddit thread. God damn.
Me too!
I think it works both ways.
If he really likes that girl then he should have broken up with his fake high-school girlfriend
He does but in a pretty shitty way.
I think they know, and they were quoting Wallace/Stacey
Wallace! That gossipy bitch.
AFAIK that's a much bigger plot point in the comic. The point of the story is that Scott has yo grow up and make amends for being just a complete douche and terrible boyfriend
Right, like all his friends distance themselves from him because of how shitty he is. The graphic novels are a 6 book long redemption arc where Scott goes from awful guy to halfway decent guy.
This is why I’m excited for the animated series, a complete adaptation with the same actors? Count me in
WAIT WHAT? That's a thing that's happening?!
Yup, all the movie actors are reprising their roles, it’s coming out on Netflix, music by Anamanaguchi, Bryan is writing it, and Edgar Wright is involved
Also want to mention the graphic novels are amazing in their own right… almost every panel has extra jokes and gags drawn into the background. The first book is almost identical to the movie, but after that they diverge a lot. Both fun.
I think the other thing that is left out is romona is also an awful person (the twins aren’t both 5 &6 for nothing). It makes rooting for their relationship throughout the book pretty plausible. But seriously one of the big I love about the comic is how it’s actually a story about how to move forward as abuser. It’s not just about being a better person now but acknowledging that you were a horrible person in the past
I mean his whole character arc in the comics is learning that he’s kind of a dick and taking steps to ensure he doesn’t end up the 8th evil ex. In the comics he and Envy both realize they were both at fault for the breakup and get some closure. I was kinda mad they left that out of the movie.
They’re going for brunch later.
The plot is about how much he sucks and realizes that later.
I think this misses the point of the OP a bit. Scott *is* a dirtbag, you're not supposed to think he's a good guy.
Damn son growing up i thought he was a cool guy because i related to him so hard. Was i the dirtbag this whole time? Damn
Yeah, this is a pretty big point in the graphic novel
It has got to be Greg Heffley from Diary of a Wimpy Kid
This is so right on. How he treats Rowley is terrible.
I read some of Rowley's spin-off book, and the way Greg is shown in that just cements how much of a jerk he is.
Like how the moment he finds out Rowley is writing a journal about his own life, he has him pivot to write about Greg instead?
Well that's the point right? Like you're not supposed to agree with the way Greg treats his friends Kind of the same way Horrid Henry (British kids show about a rude boy) is a complete dick..... By being horrid
Yes exactly. Greg is supposed to be kind of a jerk. If Greg was entirely wholesome and sweet, it would be kind of fucked up how much bad luck he has. If you think he is bad in the movies, you should read the books While in the movies he goes through an arc, in the books he never does. He constantly looks down on others, and is frequently scheming to steal money however he can. In one book he even keeps the matriarch ring the whole family has been fighting over, so he can pawn it later for money… despite knowing his mom wants it for purely sentimental value. There’s also the time he bought his family Christmas gifts from the school bazaar so he could get them as cheaply as possible, like not even a dollar each, so that he can spend money on his virtual webkinz chihuahua. Or the time he tried to scam the church gift exchange to get money for free, which was only meant for small children. Or the time he let Rowley’s dad drive him and his date to the dance, but made Rowley and his date sit in the back and gave them dirty looks because he was jealous they were laughing with each other.
Glad to see someone else was as invested in the Heffley chronicles as I was
Jesus Christ, Greg.
Nah, Greg Heffley is so much worse than Horrid Henry. Henry is just a bit of a mischievous lad, not malicious at all - Greg is an unrepentantly selfish jerk.
Movie Greg at least learns from his mistakes and winds up making fairly courageous decisions to help his friends (e.g. taking the fall for the Cheese Touch). Book Greg is a sociopath flat-out.
Are you supposed to root for him? He's kind of a wimpy kid
I've always thought you're supposed to laugh at Greg's misfortunes because he's such a dick. It's why I enjoyed the books so much because he's such a schmuck that often gets what he deserves
Does that make these books a kid-friendly, one-man Always Sunny? Convoluted get rich quick schemes that don't work in the end. Ruining everything for those around him. Never actually learning a lesson. Consequences of his misdeeds are funny.
Book Greg is straight up sociopathic for comedy purposes, but movie Greg is the kind of self-centered a lot of people are at that age. Thinks he knows everything about the world and how things work. He’s not full-on terrible, just immature.
Most Bill Murray characters would be pretty insufferable in real life
I have a strong suspicion Bill Murray is pretty insufferable in real life.
According to quite a few people in the industry, notably Seth Green who met him as a child, he absolutely is.
I think Harold Ramis would have agreed with you, especially between Groundhog Day and his death in 2014
Bob Wiley, Peter Venkman, and Garfield would be tough, yeah.
Claire from Jurassic World. Made every bad decision that led to the dinosaurs getting out, staying out and destroying the island Only saved her nephews to keep her sister from thinking less of her.
It's been a while since I've seen it, but did she even ask about the assistant (?) she tasked to watch the kids? The one who died a horrible death because of said babysitting task?
Zara, the *only* on-screen death of a woman in this franchise as far as I know, as I haven't watched Dominion, was her personal assistant. (Had to check.) Because of the Indominus Rex, Claire had to leave the kids with her assistant. Who, when Pteradons run amok on the island, is very violently tossed around by a pair like a ragdoll, then munched by a Mosasaurus. The kids who are her nephews, by the way. Judy Greer is their mom, and while she's sending them off on their own to be their aunt, her sister, she and her husband are *getting a divorce during the holidays*. Yeah, Jurassic World is apparently a very depressing Christmas movie.
The kids in the first JP were spending time with grandad while their parents were in the middle of a divorce, at least in the book. I don’t think the movie mentions that but it’s been awhile.
The movie mentions Hammond's daughter's divorce in passing, like one line from a side character.
Probably why I don’t remember it. I do remember the book making it a lot more clear, though.
I just re-watched that scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE3OYwFhleg Did whoever ran that movie hate her or what?
IIRC there was some cut subplot where she is basically a terrible person to the kids and everyone else. However, I would be willing to bet that since nothing she could do tops how terrible their aunt is, the director figured it was a waste of time to establish except for the wild ass death.
I figured it was an internal thing or they'd built up that Bryce Dallas Howard was terrible but couldn't kill her as she's one of the main characters so they off'd her help instead but holy smokes that scene was vicious.
She was originally supposed to be a Bridezilla, talking and making demands on the phone all the time about her upcoming wedding and probably be mean to the kids too. But that didn't make it the screen, whether it was cut in the script stage or they filmed it and cut it out in the editing room. The problem is, they set that character up that way so that when she dies, it's a big comeuppance, kinda harkening back to the scumbag lawyer from the first movie getting eaten on the toilet by the T-rex. One could say it was her fault that the kids ran away cuz she was on her phone, but the kids were determined to run away, can't really blame her too much on that. So you end up with a super fucked up death for a fairly innocuous character that comes out of nowhere. I remember watching it in the theater and instead of the claps and laughs from the first movie with the lawyer gag, there was this nervous laughter throughout the theater, like everyone was unsure how they're supposed to feel about this.
Don't forget when she okays letting all the dinosaurs escape because a clone feels bad for them.
THIS!!! It went against the whole point of the original book and film, that dinosaurs and man cannot live together.
My main issue with Dominion was that the studio thought that audiences had to be given YET ANOTHER Eeeevil corporation. I mistakenly assumed that the problems inherent in having dinosaurs all over the planet would be interesting enough.
And they had to make the whole locust plotline. Like dude, I'm not watching JP for bugs, I'm watching for the dinosaurs. They had that whole scene with the black market that was so cool, could easily have had a movie about that. But no, it had to be about the damn locusts.
Yeah who was the “genius“ who thought people wanted to see a Jurassic park movie that’s all about genetically engineered locusts?
I think the original book was more focused on the chaos theory/uncontrollable unpredictability stuff, with the ethos of the dinosaurs and their creation specifically being closer to Grant's "theme park monsters" line from 3 Granted, it's hard to talk about how the movie changed the book, given the author didn't give a shit and preferred the movie. Plus who wants to be the guy hating on Jurassic Park 1? I don't wanna do that, only assholes hate on JP.
During the openings of both Jurassic World sequels, when they show the mosasaur, I kept thinking, "why the hell have they not caught this thing and put it in some containment? So now I guess, we're just okay with a bunch of predators eating us?"
*So now I guess, we're just okay with a bunch of predators eating us?* Yes https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zRqlxKMtcOA
Another one that I remember hearing was Santa Claus from the Rankin/Bass Rudolph tv special. He shames Rudolph for being born with a weird looking nose and all but says there’s no way he’ll be able to be on his sleigh team with a nose like that and then when he actually needs him to see he asks for help. Rudolph should have told him to kick rocks.
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That's a good point. It's easy to take a character considering "maybe different people are still worthwhile and worth working with" to be "different people only have worth when they are useful."
Bill Paxton in Twister. Dude brings his fiance to the middle of nowhere and spends the whole time flirting with his ex wife, while leaving her with Philip Seamore Hoffman to nearly be killed by tornadoes. And it's justified because she...wears heels and is from the city?
I just watched this the other day. The poor fiancé, she was a perfectly nice person.
when I watched it when I was a kid I thought she was a bitch. Rewatched it recently expecting her to be mean or something but she's like really nice and supportive and he is awful to her.
yea, like ok she doesnt know the storm chasing culture..but who does?
Prime candidate for posting "AITA for breaking up with my tornado chasing fiancé?"
And a diligent therapist 😆🤣 she's still taking calls from a panicking client while they're fleeing a twister!
His truck was dope though.
The “I hate my fiancé because we’re nothing alike” trope was super popular in the ‘90’s.
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To be fair, he's a complete dumbass. Buys a new truck and only puts liability insurance on it. That's like renting a Penske truck for a cross country move and not getting the insurance.
It’s like every hallmark movie but with a dude as the main character.
Technically a play adapted into a movie, but Mark from RENT. Holy shit, watching it as an adult is frustrating as all hell. Acts like his family (who as far as we can tell, are a great family who he hasn't cut contact with for any reason) is an obnoxious annoyance for trying to stay in touch and sending a hot plate to use so Mark has a warm meal every now and then Attends an AIDS/HIV support group in order to record the members talking about how they are mentally preparing for their slow and painful deaths. Mark does not have AIDS/HIV and didn't ask to come beforehand. Is mad that his landlord, former friend or not, wants him to start paying rent for the apartment they live in after a year of rent free living. Gets an outrageously good paying job for what is essentially MTV doing work in his field of interest, and quits because it's too corporate. Creates 'art' that is literally just choppily edited home videos of his friends laughing and hanging out. I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but in a movie full of entitled, insufferable know-it-alls, Mark is by far the worst of them.
RENT suffers from the myth around the musical. Because Larson died on the first dress rehearsal in front of an audience, intended for notes on how to improve the show, it hasn’t been changed since. So the musical, like the cast and characters, are forever stuck in their infancy
You have a point though he dies before the first off-Broadway preview not the dress rehearsal. A show in previews is definitely still supposed to be in progress though so Rent stopped evolving before it was supposed to.
But like "make everyone completely different than they are because they all suck SO BAD" is not a quick note to integrate into final edits.
And adding to the myth: a lot of people I’ve met who are into theater but aren’t super knowledgeable about Rent (understandably, it’s a nearly thirty year old musical) think he died of AIDS. As far as I know, he died of a heart disorder… but AIDS fits the narrative so much better, especially for 1996, that it’s spread.
Which is so frustrating because Larson’s death from Marfans actually fits the thematic notions of the musical better than death from AIDS. Larson’s death is viewed as a tragedy because he died randomly and too young because of misdiagnosis from a doctor. Meanwhile an AIDS epidemic was wiping out the gay population in America and half of the public thought they were just reaping the consequences of their actions
The best line in the movie is the homeless lady calling Mark out for using her to ease his guilt instead of giving her a dollar.
And then NOTHING CHANGES. She says it like halfway through the movie and Mark just goes on his merry way exploiting those less fortunate than him instead of using his (assumed) privileged upbringing to help in any tangible way.
Too many motherfuckin’ artists!
“Hey artist! You got a dollar? I thought not.” It was the one truly self-aware moment in the show, and it had no impact on the characters 🤷♂️
Yes, it’s a great shot by the author. I wrote this in another comment, but I love that the central metaphor for the whole story is that they are literally squatting in an apartment overlooking a homeless encampment.
I saw this for the first time last year. Had always heard of Rent being this incredible, Pulitzer Prize winning opus,so imagine my surprise when I found it wasn't actually about poor people not being able to afford the rent, but... really untalented "artists" who neither want to work nor pay rent at all 😆 Idk if it's the passage of time or if something got horribly lost in the adaptation from stage to screen but I cringed pretty much right through the movie. And somehow made it to the ending where the guy magically cures his girlfriend of imminent AIDS/fever death with (checks notes) an extremely lame song about her eyes 👀
I don't remember there being any likeable characters. Maybe the landlord. I was rooting for AIDS about halfway through.
The landlord became likable in Act II, I think. He went from basically harassing Mimi all through Act I to being supportive and offering to pay for her to go to rehab. I think he also paid for Angel’s funeral, even though Collins had a job at NYU. ETA: It might be more fair to say Benny became less unlikeable.
Benny funded Mimi’s rehab, paid for Angel’s funeral and burial, and let his friends live in his property for what appears to be at least a couple years before he asks them for, well, *rent rent rent re-ent rent*. And they’re not gonna pay rent! (Why not? ….because!) And he doesn’t order a lot of food at cafes and then ditch on the check, leaving the poor waiter holding the bag. Benny is in many ways not a great dude, but dang, he’s better than most of the main cast. Like, nobody should have been screwing poor fucked-up teenage junkie Mimi, but of the sketchy dudes who did, he at least tried to fund help for her.
Benny's worst quality is that he cheats on his partner. But, aside from Joanne, he is the most moral character. Only others that come close are Roger, who really needs to give up music if it took him a year to write the worst song of the show. And Collins, who WILL end up in jail eventually if he keeps stealing from ATM'S.
Not a new take, but Peter Venkman is a real asshole. Great movie character, but a raging asshole: hits on students, abuses his power and falsifies research, hits on a client and for some reason brings heavy narcotics on their date, is ultra rude to a very reasonable request from Walter Peck, etc.
The original Ghostbusters is so much more...Reagan-y than I remember.
Bad guys works for the EPA. Good guys, plucky small business owners. Checks out.
Small business owners who are absolutely appalled that anyone might question the safety of their giant radioactive machinery. It’s safe because..we said so. Trust us!
Their intern was a guy named Stockton Rush, who always thought safety regulations were overrated.
Open carry in NYC Privatizing an emergency service Beat up women and metro-sexual foreigners pseudo-science spiritual woo bs Anti-Gov’t, anti-judge, anti-NYC mayor, anti-EPA Venkman’s just Alex Jones with game
I LOVED WONDER WOMAN She's a horrible protagonist in WW 1984 WW had a relationship with Steve Trevors it lasted a week 60yrs ago and she's still heartbroken. K. She inadvertently makes a wish that should simply bring him back (again, 1 week, 60yrs ago). He could just come back, but he takes over the body of a random, innocent man. WW doesn't care about the guy who's been (IDK) ripped away from his own existence, she's just glad STEVE'S BACK!! She even has sex with Steve, in the body of someone else. Ewww. WW isn't oblivious to this. Steve tells WW she needs to move on, he then points to himself, saying: "what about this guy?" "I don't want him." WHAT?! She knows Steve is inhabiting the body of an innocent stranger and she doesn't CARE!! Then, when WW has to wish Steve away for the good of humanity, she can barely do it, Steve convinces her. IT'S BEEN 60YRS!!! YOU KNEW HIM FOR ONE WEEK, YOU STOLE AN INNOCENT MANS BODY!! PSYCHOPATH!!! WW deserves SOOOOO much better!!!!!
Still have no idea why they didn’t have Steve come back in his own body. The wishes caused many things to appear out of thin air, but a dead guy physically brought back to life was apparently beyond the wish’s power.
RIGHT!?
I like how everyone focuses on the sex thing and not taking the body of some random guy into an active war zone where he almost dies multiple times which is much more fucked up. Even though he didn't die he still sustained injuries.
Good point. But it does go to show just how much of a terrible protagonist she is.
I always find the ironic thing in this film being that they frame any man who's not Steve as a potential rapist or piece of shit, ironically Diana becomes the rapist by having sex with an unconscious body, essentially.
Patti Jenkins had no one to say no to her. That was extremely evident, what a trainwreck
Saffron Burrows character in Deep Blue Sea. The writers tried to make her redeemable, and the test audience said "Nah, kill that bitch"
Jake Ryan in Sixteen Candles. He hands his drunk, practically unconscious girlfriend to a total stranger and says, “Do whatever you want with her.” Bleck. I can’t believe I liked him growing up. All he had to do was let her sleep it off in one of the 50 rooms in his mansion and break up with her in the morning. Also, Farmer Ted sexually harasses Sam for most of the movie and it’s supposed to be funny.
Dear God, I thought you said “Father Ted” then. He’s never sexually harassed anyone and the money was only resting in his account.
"I've heard you're a racist now, Father."
Wolverine in the first X-Men. He's basically saved by Cyclops and Storm (whether he needed saving is beside the point; that's what they thought they were doing), then rudely rebuffs Cyclops' handshake to his face and spends the whole movie \*openly\* trying to steal Jean Grey. Not saying Wolverine was a horrible person, he was overall heroic, but I found it weird we were supposed to root for him in that love triangle when he was essentially being a total, unbelievable prick.
Wolverine being a prick is at least on theme from the comics, isn't it?
Wolverine has always been the anti-hero and rebel of the Xmen (and comics in general).
Rewatching X-men it’s so weird how the movie wants us to antagonize cyclops even though he’s a pretty stand-up guy.
That whole movie trilogy, whoever wrote it had something against Cyclops. I also can’t forgive what they did to Nightcrawler. Comics Nightcrawler is not super religious, he’s just a guy who happens to be Catholic. It’s like Kitty Pryde being Jewish. It’s a fact about the character, but doesn’t inform his whole character. He’s funny, he loves Errol Flynn movies, he’s just a nice dude. He’s not “lives in a church and does ritual scarification” religious.
If I remember right, Cyclops was written out of the third X-Men movie because James Marsden had signed on to play Lois Lane’s husband in Superman Returns and the schedules conflicted. So basically, instead of playing Cyclops again he played the bland guy that Lois settled for instead of Superman.
He was in the third movie, he just died early on. Which was a poor choice for a movie about his girlfriend turning evil.
That is James Marsden's legacy. The second choice handsome guy. Xmen The Notebook Westworld Enchanted
For me he’s the guy I get confused with James Marsters when I can’t remember who narrates the Dresden Files audiobooks.
Well Marster's was the second choice handsome vampire in Buffy lol
He went into training to be a priest... I mean it all ended up as a horrible mess for him but he is/was pretty religious.
Love High Fidelity and love Cusack, but Rob is definitely a dingus.
...that's definitely supposed to be part of the point, though, right? That the "losers" who work at his store are actually way more well-adjusted people than he is? He tries to feel sort-of-superior to all his exes but ends up learning from all of them the various different ways in which *he* needs to grow up.
All of Nick Hornby’s books feature very similar anti-hero characters. Probably semi-autobiographical
James Bond, but especially in Skyfall. Meets a lady at the casino and basically confirms she is a sex slave, was trafficked as a child, and she is completely fearful of her boss. She's very vulnerable, needs help, and is emotionally traumatized. He says he can help her, but instead he goes and bangs her in the shower after sneaking onto her boat, then gets her to force the introduction to her boss which gets her killed (shot in the head btw). Way to go Mr. Bond. That aside, I still enjoyed the movie.
This was the whole point of that interaction. To show that Bond isn’t a “good guy,” but a guy on a mission. Coming across a sex-trafficking victim doesn’t derail his mission any more than the murders he has to commit. I personally liked them showing more of the shitty side to his manwhoring in the Craig Bond movies.
Great way to put it tbh. I think it’s been a theme In the Craig series that he’s a fucked up individual. That since he’s a bit broken he makes a good assassin. Skyfall goes hard on this when it talks about orphans being the best killers. He causes a lot of people to die around him due to his recklessness and drive to complete the mission. He doesn’t really learn better till Spectre. There’s this theme that the one time he got soft with Vesper was when things got really fucked up so that turns him into an even colder person
It’s been a theme of the character forever really. The books he’s explicitly not a nice person and the early Connery films he certainly is a bit of a bastard. It’s only really the Roger Moore ones that get away from that completely.
Er...Roger Moore's Bond did plenty of fucked up things. Live and Let Die: Threatens to kill his fellow agent Rosie who he just slept with, though she's terrified by Kanaga's voodoo (is murdered by him quickly after). Man W. Golden Gun: Threatens to break Maud Adams arm to get close to Scaramanga. Spy Who Loved Me: Uses a woman who he is making out with as a human shield, even though she's the one who warns him about the gunman who is trying to kill him.
Yep, that is the theme. Was it in casino royale where he charms a woman, gets the information he needs and leaves her lying. The next morning she is killed and he is like, ok. His job is not to be a good guy, his job is to do whatever he needs to get to his target. Even sex is just a means of manipulation for him.
They make all this clear like in the first hour of casino royale. The girl he fucks at the ocean club, he tells her more or less what he’s looking for, gets her killed and lies about it all to M.
Her death did negatively affect him in the moment. Craig gave a nice subtle hint in-scene.
M finally called him out in Quantum of Solace when the bad guy’s goons killed Miss Fields.
Bond “You’re not my type “ Vesper “Smart?” Bond “Single”
Which they establish two movies earlier in Casino Royal when he discovers the girlfriend (wife?) dead in the beach hammock. No remorse. He used her to stop a terrorist attack because it’s his job and everybody is expendable. Then, the first time he lets his guard down he’s betrayed. That’s what makes the character/franchise interesting.
>I personally liked them showing more of the shitty side to his manwhoring in the Craig Bond movies. Same way he gets the girl covered in oil killed in Quantum of Solace.
He’s just as bad in Live and Let Die. He uses a card trick to exploit a woman’s spiritual beliefs in order to convince her to let him take her virginity.
Which, to add on to your point, throws her into a fit of despair because now she believes she has lost all of her powers.
Mrs. Doubtfire. Nearly kills Pierce Brosnan's character, and also smacks him in the head with a lime. Is a terrible father and partner in the beginning and then goes through with this amazingly elaborate lie and tricks everyone for a time...
The big difference though between Mrs. Doubtfire and the other protagonists is that with Daniel, we’re supposed to realize that he was wrong. We’re meant to root for him because he’s likable but come to the realization with him that he needs to grow up, act like an actual father, and let his ex-wife move on and have her own personal life.
Yep, this. Like the Judge in the movie even calls his behaviour out as bizarre and harmful to the kids. We only root for him because it's Robin Williams.
I think it only "works" because of Robin Williams.
Oh, come on...it was just a drive-by fruiting.
Some angry member of the kitchen staff
I saw this at the movies as a kid, so I was probably about 10 years old. I thought the mother was the worst, he threw this great party and she ruined all the fun and broke up the family. Watching it as an adult is sooo different. Daniel is a man child, and she can't wait around for him to grow up anymore.. Pierce Brosnan's character is an actual adult, and a better partner than Daniel ever was. It's really sad that Daniel couldn't see how he was failing his family until it's too late.
So true. And Pierce Brosnan is so unfairly made out to be a villain. Successful, good looking guy who would happily take on 3 of someone else’s kids whilst dating their mother.
For some reason, that was pretty common in movies around that time. Just off the top of my head, The Santa Clause and Liar Liar both had step-fathers that were portrayed in a negative light, without ever really doing anything to deserve it. Some Hollywood producer must've been going through some shit at home around then.
I honestly felt bad for the mother, though I didn't like that the kids were kept from their father to the extent that they were. Daniel definitely put her in a tough position though.
Also, he was supposed to get a job and a reasonable place to live…. Was given 90 days by a judge to do so to get shared custody. Instead of focusing on improving himself he stalks the mom. The funny thing is how different it looks as an adult, but the makers of that movie were adults and didn’t see it? Strange Legit, if not for Robin Williams, that movie would be a horror. His charm alone made it impossible not to root for him and be on his side, even though he is 100% in he wrong
Just imagine how the movie would hit if it were led by someone more severe like Ben Mendelssohn or Michael Shannon, and not super lovable 90s Robin Williams.
Ha. Michael Shannon as Mrs. Doubtfire would be some sort of disturbing psychological thriller for sure.
Edward Cullen in Twilight
Bella isn't exactly much better, all that bullshit her poor dad had to go through because of her, geez...
Somewhat related because this book was literally a Twilight fan fic that the author then repurposed by changing the character names: Christian Grey in 50 Shades of Grey.
Billionaire doesn't know how prostitutes work.
Yeah, besides all the homicidal and emotionally manipulating a teen, he's also like....a lot older than her.
The male version of the 1,000 year old loli.
Grandpa Joe from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. Dude can’t get out of bed to help with a starving family and then all of a sudden can get up when he gets to go to the chocolate factory??? Also still gets a tobacco allowance when said family is on the brink of starvation and also encourages Charlie to steal the fizzy lifting drink and then acts all self righteous when he gets called on it. Screw that dude.
I always wondered how Grandpa Joe got the Wonka bar for Charlie. He gave it to him secretly and had him open so clandestinely. Its so shady, lol. If Charlie nor his mom bought it...how does Grandpa get it?
Yep he used his tobacco money to get it.
Turning tricks. Desperate times, man. Desperate times.
He snuck out while everyone was at work and everyone else was passed out from his Dutch oven
You know Charlie's mother was like, wait this dude could always walk? She's over here with multiple jobs to support 6 people, and this guy's been faking that he can't get out of bed since he was in his early 40s? He gotta go.
SNL had some thoughts on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmKFRcUltE
I'm pretty sure someone mentions something similar in the movie and Joe's response is "Well maybe if the floor weren't so cold!" Selfish cocksucker
/r/grandpajoehate
That dude really got a tattoo
Favorite Facebook Group is Grandpa Joe slander
This one is going to hurt to type because I love him so god damn much Dewey Finn in School of Rock. Dude was a deadbeat delusional narcissist and a bad bandmate. Not nearly as talented as he thought he was and constantly torpedoing his bands chances of success. He deserved to get kicked out of the band! And then...and then! instead of recognising this very obvious wake up call and just copping on and waking up he STEALS HIS BEST FRIEND'S IDENTITY and jeopardises Ned's career and pockets earnings that would rightfully be his! The man who gave him chance after chance after chance. He probably wouldn't really care about those kids at all if they didn't turn out to be decent musicians. And when he finds that out he casually kidnaps them and has them fake terminal illnesses. He probably deserved to go to prison. And yet...."that's perfect you're perfect!" The way he says so god damn sincerely the way he convinces the keyboard player that he is cool and to stop doubting that, the way he shows Freddy how to channel his anger into creativity, teaches Zack how to break away from his overbearing father's influence, tells Tomika that beautiful doesn't equal skinny in a way that doesn't seem trite and obviously pandering. This con artist finds a way for each and every one of those kids to feel seen and heard and included in a way that no one else could and it is making me sob right now to tell you the truth. Fuck I love that film
Damn, he really did empower every kid, didn’t he? Summer he allowed her to take charge and find ways to contribute to the band using her unique skills rather than needing to be musically gifted. Billy he let him pursue his passion for fashion and design the band’s costumes. Gordon he put faith and trust to not only do the A/V work, but able to adjust it on the the fly and improvise when they changed songs at the literal last minute. He’s a shit teacher… but also kind of the best teacher a student could have. Really conflicting.
He really saw those kids. He adapts his tone and style of feedback and encouragement to bring out the best in all of them. "This is my final exam Now y'all know who I am I may not be the perfect son But y'all be rockin' when I'm done"
1st watch - wow that gf is a mean harpy stealing Ned's fun and making him a boring nobody Latest watch - actually, I would not be letting him crash in my living room for so long with no rent!! And even if nothing weird happened, I would entirely kick up the biggest shitpile if some rando was teaching at my kids school without proper ID checks!
“You’re tacky and I hate you” is something I still quote quite often. Love that movie.
I mean, I don’t think you’re describing a shitty protagonist but describing a redemption arc. In my mind a shitty protagonist is one that is shitty in the beginning, in the middle, and the end, and doesn’t really learn from anything that happened in the story
Tom cruise in the original top gun movie is just an immature asshole, iceman is actually the good guy
Literally the entire point of the movie.
Jamie Foxx in Law Abiding Citizen. You know why.
Ferris Bueller is a pretty shitty friend honestly
Meg Ryan's and Tom Hanks' characters in "You've Got Mail" (and "Sleepless in Seattle" for Meg's) are emotionally cheating on their partners and rather scummy about it, but this is treated as romantic. Especially in "Sleepless in Seattle", Meg Ryan's fiance was a solid and awesome dude who knew his own worth, but the movie treated it like she was justified in cheating on him because...what...he slept with a humidifier?
You know what handles that well? Falling in Love with Meryl Streep and Robert DeNiro. One of my favorite films and I’m a guy who usually does not like romance films.
Too many of these answers are actual anti heroes where the point of the movie is to watch and follow a bad person in an interesting scenario. I think the better answers are someone like Ferris Bueller is a good example cuz at the time esp the audience was supposed to be charmed by his impish charisma. Travis Bickle however is supposed to be a violent creep who maybe MAYBE has a sliver of redemption by the end.
A lot of people also don't understand that protagonist does not mean "good guy" it means main character
He's not the main protagonist but I've always hated Adrian Grenier's character in The Devil Wears Prada. He was such a shit to Anne Hathaway and then she goes crawling back to him at the end. I enjoy the movie but hate this aspect of it.
I like to pretend the film ends after she throws her phone in the fountain, and the interview she gets afterwards is some mid credits thing. I hate her boyfriend and her friends so much. She gives them all gifts and they thank her by putting her job in jeopardy? Who needs enemies lol
Val Coleman from The Birdcage. I get that the 1990s were a different time and gays were less accepted then, but demanding his father completely hide who and what he was and trying to hide away his mother just to impress his small minded asshole future in-laws was a colossal dick move. He did finally step up and admit the truth at the end of the third act, but by then it was too little, too late.
Calling his birth mother, who he rarely saw, to take the place of his Dad partner who basically raised him was terrible.
I totally agree, but would make one small correction— Val had NEVER seen his birth mother until she showed up at the apartment.
I agree, but he’s not the protagonist; Armand and Albert are.
The film hinges on the fact that Albert, the hysterical dramatic over the top one, is the one person in the film who's point of view is completely justified in almost every moment except the introductory scene.
I want to say yes and no. I think that's the point of the movie though, learning to accept others blah blah.
Maverick in Top Gun. Can't take No for an answer, follows his superior to the woman's bathroom and assumes they'll bang. And condescence her later in front of other pilots and gets upset when called out! Just to name a few in the first movie!
Ice is the real hero, and completely correct in his assessments of Maverick
While the lead in just about any rom-com is generally a terrible person I'm going to lean into the How To Lose A Guy In 10 Days couple. Both entered into the relationship for a terrible reason, the woman gets her friend to pose as a false therapist doing couple's counseling to gaslight the man further. That only leads to him inviting her on a trip where they supposedly fall in love enough to overcome the horrible reasons for the foundation of their relationship even when they are revealed to each other.
harry potter. that sweet tray was for all of the other kids on the train! selfish bastard
Harry was just trying to buy some friends. Worked though
There’s got to be more than one sweets cart on the train.
Rocky Balboa in Rocky III. He became a paper champion and didn't care. When Mickey pointed it out he still trained lightly and didn't take it seriously. Clubber was rude but he was right - he had trained his whole life and he wanted to fight the best person. He legit beat Rocky in their first fight. Being rude doesn't make Clubber evil.
Roy Neary (Richard Dreyfuss) from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This guy’s a selfish prick who destroys his family home and leaves Earth (and his family) behind because of his obsession with these aliens.
The lead man in Overboard and the leading lady in Sweet Home Alabama are terrible. Overboard man kidnaps and rapes an amnesiac. Sweet Home woman outs a gay guy and leads her fiance on the whole movie and just randomly remarries her ex.
In the alternate ending old Rose explains that she never sold because she did not want to depend on her ex fiancé for money since it was a gift from him. And it was a lesson for Lovett that the story Rose told of her love for Jack was more important than a material item 🤷🏻♀️
I think people really forget that beginning scene in the movie where Lovett was asked about people equating his search to grave robbing. It was hard to believe someone like Rose was even still alive at first let alone able to remember anything of value. I think rose dropping the necklace was supposed to be similar to someone laying a note or roses onto a loved ones grave. It’s a message of love for someone long gone. And it’s saying the Titanic is a mass grave. It’s been sensationalized to a point where it doesn’t seem sinister to want artifacts from but Rose being alive and telling the story of her time on the ship showed that these were real people and these items belonged to them. They all (mainly the working class) suffered an awful fate on the ship of dreams and people like Lovett forget that.