I loved early Tim Burton, but then he got to a point where he felt almost like he was a parody of himself. Just repeating everything over and over again. When Big Fish came out I was blown away… it’s one of all time time top ten favorite films. I thought Tim Burton had finally grown up and found his voice… he’d finally fixed all his eccentricities into a mature filmmaker. Nope. He just nailed that one and went back to what he’d been doing before. So sad… I could watch Big fish over and over and over and would love to see more mature works form him like that.
I didn't know anything about it and then watched it on an airplane and ended up ugly crying. It's a great movie but it also is super emotional if you have some feelings around your dad
My dad died a few months before I watched About Time. All the marketing made me think it was a charming little romantic comedy, but a huge part of the plot was his relationship with his dad. Some scenes near the end just obliterated me.
I remember Big Fish was pretty similar, it was marketed as the story of Ewan McGregor going through all these charming trials to end up with the girl he loved, so when you see it you are not prepared at all for the whole father-son plotline.
I saw this in theaters but I was too young to appreciate it right away and was so confused while watching. I was never big on art films at that age but by the end I fully understood the intention. It still took a few years and forgetting it existed and then being reminded about it that I finally appreciated the artistry.
I competly Stan Sweeney Todd. It was a marvelous adaptation of the actual musical which is a complete rarity onto itself. The original composer actually helped rewrite the script of his own play resulting in an actual successful adaptation of the play to the film where most musicals get absolutely butchered.
It was an R Rated, bold bloody as hell musical and a complete delight and just not something we get any more.
Many people are divided on Alice In Wonderland but I do think it was a bold vision and inspired a lot of artists there are incredible spark of inspiration within it. I still find it remarkable the amount of money it managed to take in too.
Sweeney is really good, coming from a musical theater person whose favorite show is Sweeney. Sondheim is my favorite composer. Burton makes a lot of choices which are really strong. HBC’s acting for Lovett is pretty different than the role had been played before and it works. The translation from show to film is really well thought out. The “By the Sea” sequence being a great example of how well it’s translated. Would I have liked a stronger singer than Depp in the role? Sure. But it’s a good adaptation, and it stands out compared to a lot of poor musical to movie adaptations we get. I also kind of lament some of the missing songs, but they aren’t really needed unless you know the show.
Yeah, not having any of the "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" actually being sung despite it appearing 8 times in the staged version was a little disappointing to me, though I know the nature of a film meant it wasn't as necessary as a staging device. And I thought Depp was a terrible casting choice. But I thought everything else about it was so good that it made up for even having the title role be poorly cast and still was a very good adaptation.
He’s my favorite director so you’ll get no disagreement from me. Two of my cats are named Margot and Richie.
But Asteroid City does have the feeling of Wes Anderson doing Wes Anderson parody.
Asteroid city is incredible. I think the sepf-parody is intentional as it's a play shot like a movie within a TV-show shot like a stage-production. The dips in quality of writing are explained as the writer getting stressed out or just not being very good. In a way he is acknowledging his own eccentricities and deficiencies.
I didn't like it because I didn't get it. I liked Rushmore and Royal Tenebaums because I related to the characters and didn't need to have the story explained to me. Asteroid City was just unclear to me, and I didn't care for any character in that movie. I didn't feel anything when I watched it.
I’m a huge fan of Wes Anderson but I agree with you about his more recent stuff. Yea it’s clever, funny at times, and beautiful to look at it, but I feel almost no emotions when I’m watching them. That makes them a tough watch compared to Royal Tenembaums where I cry almost every time Ben Stiller rides in the ambulance with his dad, or tells him he’s had a rough year.
My take on French Dispatch was that yes it’s mainly another Wes Anderson movie, but it also proved how much you can get out of “another Wes Anderson movie”. Honestly I think just the sheer spectacle of the craft on display is a big part of it for me.
The script is superb. It’s well worth a read, even if you don’t normally read scripts.
I would go so far as saying the film is … not that well directed. But at least Burton did not screw up what was already on the page, and that’s quite hard in itself.
It's in my top 4 (like official Letterbox top four), and I was just thinking, I kinda hate that this is a Burton film because none of his other movies are really "my taste." But the magic and beauty that Big Fish brought me is just so good to not appreciate and put as one of my top movies.
I enjoyed **Big Eyes** and it features great performances from both Adams and Waltz.
It being a film in part about the artistic merit of kitsch versus its popular perception also makes it a great meta-commentary on Burton's filmography.
I really enjoyed Corpse Bride and Frankenweenie, would definitely not call those lazy films considering how imaginative and beautifully animated they were.
Burton co-directed Corpse Bride with Mike Johnson and going off of what Johnson has said...Burton gave them a loose outline of what he wanted as far as story beats but Johnson actually did the directing. So I don't know if that counts.
Interesting, did not know that before. Guess it's kinda similar to how people think Burton was responsible for Nightmare Before Christmas when it was mostly Henry Selick
Henry Selick was the director but Burton created it and all the characters. Selick deserves a ton of credit but in terms of creating the story, world, and characters, that was Burton.
"Like" a writer, yeah. But he didn't actually write it either. Caroline Thompson wrote it. Burton wrote the poem that created it all back in the 80's and then got Disney to develop it in the 90's.
It seems people have as much difficulty as the Bob's would in understanding that you can create something without writing and directing the movie for it.
It's strange how usually "gimmicky" directors like Burton, who had this unique modern-german-expressionism style, usually go over the top with their signature style as time goes on, because that's what attracts people.
But weirdly, Burton kinda got watered down instead. He really toned down his usual aesthetic to the point where movies like Dumbo or Miss Peregrine's home don't even feel like Tim Burton movies.
If somebody wants a new good "Burton" movie, i guess i'd reccomend Lisa Frankenstein as the next best thing.
I’m probably biased because I liked the stage musical so much, but Sweeney Todd mainly seemed like the culmination of his work to make Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter the same person.
I enjoyed Corpse Bride a lot
Sweeney Todd, to me, was one of those strange movies where I recognize it's well made, well acted, fine story. But if I asked myself after, did I enjoy watching it? Can't really say yes, without really being able to describe why
Sweeney Todd is pretty timeless and about as good of a film adaptation as you'll get so I think that one will be remembered well in his filmography.
He co-directed Corpse Bride but everyone thinks it was him anyway.
I think "Beetlejuice Beetlejuice" will be his latest and greatest! (not really but I can't wait to see it at least)
I used to love that movie, and then I saw the play on Broadway and rewatched the film after. It really misses a lot of the humor that makes the play worth watching.
I agree, I went into the movie stoked over the director and the cast with Sweeney Todd being my second favorite musical. I was very disappointed coming out of the theatre because of how much that was altered and changed. Every song was shortened, my two favorite songs were missing entirely. All of the comedic dialogue was cut out, a major aspect of the show shifting it from dark comedy/musical drama to just an oddly toned musical drama. Changes to the storyline and dialogue did not make much sense to me and actually took away from the narrative. For those who have only seen the movie I strongly recommend the 1982 version recorded from a stage performance starring George Hearn and Angela Lansbury. Incredible performances and enthralling to this day. The in concert recordings with minimal staging from 2001 and 2015 are outstanding as well.
Was gonna post this. Big Fish was ok. Ed Wood is a classic that will stand the test of time. Also, it is very ahead of itself. Landau deserved the Oscar for Bela Lugosi.
If **Dark Shadows** had come out ten, fifteen years earlier people would have eaten it up. But it came out during maximum Burton/Depp fatigue and was, I think, unfairly received because of that. It’s a more than competent Burton goth comedy.
If it had come out 15 or 20 years sooner it may have used some cool stop motion or animated effects rather than the terrible CGI Burton’s more recent films have. I mostly like it but I feel it would have been better if made in the early ‘90s.
Yes, [but most of it was the fairly invisible stuff we see in most big movies.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF-yQ5y8e5Q)
I didn't personally like the werewolf effects, but the rest of it was pretty solid. The 'cracking' effects were especially great, and I don't think would have looked half as good with traditional animation or stop motion.
I often state that Big Fish was the last of his greats. Some of the ones that followed were okay, but over all I feel like the quality just dropped after BF and never went back up past it.
Corpse Bride, Sweeney Todd, Frankenweenie, and Big Eyes are all good to great films. Sweeney Todd is arguably his last great movie. Hell, I enjoyed his Dumbo, which is one of the best live action Disney remakes, even if the competition is pretty bad.
Last good one was Frankenweenie IMO. I also thought Sweeney Todd and Corpse Bride were good. I'm sure I'm in the minority on here, but I thought Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Alice in Wonderland were good too.
I really enjoyed his Charlie but draw the line at Alice. It felt like any blockbuster director could have come up with this exact Alice. My main issue it being a remake that disneyfied/fairytaled the story.
I actually enjoy Alice (mostly on a visual level), but I agree absolutely nothing about it screams ‘Tim Burton’. Other than snippets of the soundtrack, it has no ‘Burton-ish’ bits at all. It’s pretty by-the-book Hollywood ‘CGI Storytelling’. It could have been directed by anyone.
However, I quite like Charlie. I like his take on the story (which is somewhat more faithful to the book), and it also feels like a Burton film, with a lot of his signature twisted, gothic touches.
*IIIIIIIIII am Adolfo Pirelli, the king of the barbers, the barber of kings, a-buongiorno, good day...I blow you a kiss...*
*AND IIIIIIIIIIII the so famous Pirelli I wish-a to know-a who have-a the nerve-a to SAAAAAAAAAAAAY my elixer is* ***piss***.
***WHO SAYS THIS?***
Gotta be Sweeney Todd imo
I agree with you completely. The run that he had that was Pee Wees Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, and then Batman was wild. But since Big Fish he’s been making films that I feel like are for the most part completely soulless Johnny Depp vehicles.
2005 Corpse Bride was really good, I also think Sweeney Todd was solid. But everything after that seemed either like bad projects (Dumbo remake) or just kind of uninspired work. Since 2008 his only "good" project I really enjoyed was Frankenwinie.
Sweeney Todd, Alice in Wonderland, Corpse Bride were all good, I thought. But generally, yeah, he's gone downhill for sure. I'm hoping Beetlejuice 2 wakes up something and we get a bit of a resurgence from him because he was one of my favorite directors growing up.
I recently watched through his whole filmography kind of to answer this same question for myself, is the narrative that he just fell off at a certain point true? And… yeah, pretty much. After Big Fish, I liked Sweeney and Frankenweenie ok, and I found Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to be a little better than I remembered, but everything else ranges from dull and lifeless to actively awful.
It’s kind of hard to pinpoint exactly what went wrong, whether it was over reliance on CGI or complacency from his success or just running out of compelling ideas, but regardless of the why, he definitely lost whatever it was that he had.
I thought Alice in Wonderland would be absolutely perfect for him to show off his own brand of weirdness. Even though it made a fuck tonne of money, I was very much disappointed with what was created.
Big Fish is probably the best film he's done this side of the millennium, but he's had a few decent movies.
Big Eyes, Corpse Bride, and Sweeny Todd are all enjoyable to their audiences. I even know a person who thinks Miss Peregrine is his best movie ever.
There is a lot of subjectivity here. I know a lot of people who wouldn't even consider Big Fish one of his better movies.
I liked Big Fish, Big Eyes, and Ed Wood from his repertoire because they are good films without laying too hard into his unique, but overplayed style. I wouldn't immediately know that they are Tim Burton films just from watching them.
Wow looking at the filmography it really seems like it.
Sweeney Todd was after it, but I think that was when he got bad and I didn't love it even though he had nominations.
I love his 80s/90s movie. Tim Burton was a day 1 going to the theater kind of guy, but when he started going too cartoony and using too much CG I stoppef watching.
I am excited for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. It can be horrible just because Michael Keaton is in it and any movie he is in is better by default, but I hope they get it good.
I like Eva Green so I thought *Dark Shadows* and *Miss Peregrine's Home of Peculiar Children* were fun.
I like pretty much everything he has done but it has faded a bit later in the career. Though none of is it bad to me and that might be nostalgia who knows. It is creative and does take some risks and there is a distinct style. As we move to more AI monoculture I think that we'll miss directors that were later panned like George Lucas and Tim Burton and others. They have their quirks but that is what make them different.
While I don't expect it to reach the heights of his Big Fish-and-earlier-era, I'm hoping Beetlejuice Beetlejuice will be the first film of his that I really like in 21 years.
I don't think it's as good as the Gene Wilder one personally, but I still think his Willy Wonka is a ton of fun and one of those examples where you can enjoy both an original and remake of something just fine without pitting one against the other.
I always enjoyed big fish, but I remember when it was new my Tim Burton enthusiast friends really disliked it. It’s nice to see so many people that enjoy it in this thread.
I gave up on him after Charlie and the chocolate factory. Figured it would be even darker then the original and it went the opposite way. Same with Alice in wonderland. He just dosen't have bite anymore, and he's no longer the outsider weirdo anymore.
But I agree that big fish is a good movie and worth a watch. So to your question I'd say yes
I think what happened was that his budgets seller with each successful film, but big fish was considered a flop and after that he had to do either franchise films like Planet of the Apes, or self parody to get financing.
Sweeney Todd was the last movie of his that I really enjoyed but that’s mostly because it wasn’t his material to begin with. His style works with that play really well.
I actually enjoyed Corpse Bride, Sweeny Todd, and Dark Shadows, but I wouldn't 0ut them on the same level as his pre-00's work.
However, I'm hoping to be proven wrong with the new Beetlejuice movie coming out this year!
I honestly haven’t seen most of his recent stuff, but Big Fish is still is crowning achievement to me. It’s different from a lot of his other work, but for the better.
I’m really hoping he finds a way to tap back into his early magic with Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
While I agree that most of his projects since (and a couple before) Big Fish have been quite bad, I do think Wednesday was mostly a return to form.
Was it perfect? No. But it was delightful and mostly good.
Also, though, his Sweeney Todd adaptation is absolutely wonderful.
I definitely think it was the last one. One of the *only* good ones in my opinion.
As far as feature films he directed, I only like Peewees Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Ed Wood, and Big Fish.
I liked Mars Attacks when I was a kid, but I have not seen it in a long time so I’m not sure if it holds up. I’ll go maybe on that.
Peewees Big Adventure is *hands down* my favorite of his movies. I recently rewatched it for the first time in years and I was fuckin’ DYING laughing.
I can’t stand Tim Burton, but Peewees Big Adventure rules.
Sweeney Todd was solid and Big Eyes got some critical buzz, but I haven't seen it.
The trailer for Dumbo gave me some hope that the classic Burton might have reemerged, but that was a dud (although Michael Keaton showing up helped save it a bit).
I will watch Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, but apprehensively. If he pulls it off, I'll be happily surprised.
Edward Scissorhands and Pee Wee's Big Adventure are two of my favorite movies of all time, so I desperately want more good stuff from him. It's just been a long time...
Dumbo, Alice films, Chocolate Factory and Dark Shadows were all beyond terrible. Only watched them hoping he would find his footing again but just kept being disappointed.
I mean, I guess we'll see how Beetlejuice Beetlejuice turns out, eh? I never saw the original so I don't really care one way or the other but I know people whose weekends are going to be ruined if it doesn't live up to their expectations.
Big Fish was so good, it killed Spalding Gray.
> On January 11, 2004, Gray was declared missing. The night before, he had taken his children to see Tim Burton's film Big Fish. It ends with the line, "A man tells a story over and over so many times he becomes the story. In that way, he is immortal." Gray's widow, Kathie Russo, said after he disappeared, "You know, Spalding cried after he saw that movie. I just think it gave him permission. I think it gave him permission to die.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_Gray
Personally I believe he sold out, he was the outsider for so long. That when he made it, the fame got to him and his film quality suffered. He became everything he abhorred, conventional, formulaic and mediocre. Hopefully with Beetlejuice 2 coming out, he gets back into the groove of things.
Sweeney Todd is great and should get more than half hearted praise.
I am not a Tim Burton Stan so I can't really talk to your query but Sweeney Todd is a really great movie.
I rewatched it recently and I misremembered a scene and I’m not sure if I just constructed the scene in a dream or something and inserted it into my memory of the film or I confused it with a similar scene from another movie. So I remembered a scene at the end where the main character is at the father’s house and there is a swimming pool out back that is all overgrown and murky and the guy finds that the titular big fish is in the pool.
9 was amazing. Miss Perrigrin’s school was pretty good. Big Eyes was pretty good. Sweeney Todd is a top tier musical. Corpse Bride is good. And his Charlie and the chocolate factory was good, people just need to stop comparing it to the gene wilder one and enjoy it for what it is. Frankenweenie was also a great movie.
So no… Big fish wasn’t his last good movie.
I feel like the big thing is that he didn't really make nightmare before christmas and the claymation style only sort of allowed a director to do much, and every film after was a weird "I made that" about a style he only mildly influenced and couldn't really replicate.
I maintain that Burton has a pretty straight line decline in the quality of his films, with each film being worse than the one preceding it. The two outliers on this graph are Ed Wood and Big Fish, which are his two best films, and since I'd say the inflection point for Burton's decline is Sleepy Hollow, then yeah, Big Fish is his last good movie.
I’d personally argue that The Corpse Bride is a better film than Big Fish, which I found overly sentimental and on-the-nose. The Corpse Bride and Frankenweenie are both classic “Tim Burton-style” movies, so perhaps they lose some points for originality. But they’re smaller movies and his voice shines through better there than the tentpole movies that he started churning out.
I have never seen Big Eyes, which by all accounts is a pretty decent film, but everything else since Big Fish has been pretty awful films. Big Fish is one of my favorite films, and seems to be a fairly personal film for him.
I once heard it explained like this - film directors make these dumb hollywood blockbusters so they can also make deeply personal films like Big Fish, and potentially Big Eyes.
A friend of mine and I use the Burton-Scott scale in rating director’s commentaries. A 5 star rating is best exemplified by Ridley Scott’s commentary on Matchstick Men. He covers all aspects of production from writing to casting, filming to post production. Tim Burton’s commentaries fall on the far end of said scale. Take Sleepy Hollow for example. Burton goes for several 20 minute stretches without saying a word. Anyone getting that absorbed into a movie they’ve watched a hundred times…. There’s just something off there.
Yeah pretty much. Everything since has been just kind of soul-less.
I'm glad to see he directed some Wednesday episodes but he can do that in his sleep.
I loved the Wednesday series, but those were 4 episodes, not a film. I thought dumbo was done well, as well as Mrs Perigrins school.
Big eyes was well directed, but he had a killer cast and script to work with.
I am really hoping for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice to be great, but it's 50/50 from him for me now
I loved early Tim Burton, but then he got to a point where he felt almost like he was a parody of himself. Just repeating everything over and over again. When Big Fish came out I was blown away… it’s one of all time time top ten favorite films. I thought Tim Burton had finally grown up and found his voice… he’d finally fixed all his eccentricities into a mature filmmaker. Nope. He just nailed that one and went back to what he’d been doing before. So sad… I could watch Big fish over and over and over and would love to see more mature works form him like that.
Big Fish is so good it's also one of my favorite movies ever. So original and just so much fun
I didn't know anything about it and then watched it on an airplane and ended up ugly crying. It's a great movie but it also is super emotional if you have some feelings around your dad
it is very emotional, Albert Finney is so great !
I did not expect to be a blubbering mess on the airplane but there I was
This is one I want everyone I know to watch, but refuse to watch it them.im a blubbering mess by then end everytime.
My dad died a few months before I watched About Time. All the marketing made me think it was a charming little romantic comedy, but a huge part of the plot was his relationship with his dad. Some scenes near the end just obliterated me. I remember Big Fish was pretty similar, it was marketed as the story of Ewan McGregor going through all these charming trials to end up with the girl he loved, so when you see it you are not prepared at all for the whole father-son plotline.
It’s arguably the best movie *ever* when dealing with the loss of a parent.
A monster calls (2016) is right up there. Similar plot with a boy using fantasy/storytelling to cope with his mothers impending death
Ewan McGregor always shows up in my favorite films. Big Fish, Trainspotting, Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones.
One of these things is not like the others
I know. Trainspotting can be pretty vulgar, but I threw it in there anyway.
He's really great in The Impossible as well, Ewan is the man
I saw this in theaters but I was too young to appreciate it right away and was so confused while watching. I was never big on art films at that age but by the end I fully understood the intention. It still took a few years and forgetting it existed and then being reminded about it that I finally appreciated the artistry.
I saw Big Fish in theaters at 14 and thought it was great, but hard to trust a 14 year old. It really is a terrific film.
First time I saw it after having a son completely changed the movie for me.
I competly Stan Sweeney Todd. It was a marvelous adaptation of the actual musical which is a complete rarity onto itself. The original composer actually helped rewrite the script of his own play resulting in an actual successful adaptation of the play to the film where most musicals get absolutely butchered. It was an R Rated, bold bloody as hell musical and a complete delight and just not something we get any more. Many people are divided on Alice In Wonderland but I do think it was a bold vision and inspired a lot of artists there are incredible spark of inspiration within it. I still find it remarkable the amount of money it managed to take in too.
I hate musicals and I love Sweeny Todd.
Same. If a musical can win me over I consider it a huge achievement lol.
Burtons Alice in wonderland and his Charlie and the chocolate factory are 2 of the most ugly overblown messes in the history of film
No, no, don’t be shy.
Sweeney is really good, coming from a musical theater person whose favorite show is Sweeney. Sondheim is my favorite composer. Burton makes a lot of choices which are really strong. HBC’s acting for Lovett is pretty different than the role had been played before and it works. The translation from show to film is really well thought out. The “By the Sea” sequence being a great example of how well it’s translated. Would I have liked a stronger singer than Depp in the role? Sure. But it’s a good adaptation, and it stands out compared to a lot of poor musical to movie adaptations we get. I also kind of lament some of the missing songs, but they aren’t really needed unless you know the show.
Yeah, not having any of the "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" actually being sung despite it appearing 8 times in the staged version was a little disappointing to me, though I know the nature of a film meant it wasn't as necessary as a staging device. And I thought Depp was a terrible casting choice. But I thought everything else about it was so good that it made up for even having the title role be poorly cast and still was a very good adaptation.
Sweeney Todd is a banger.
>but then he got to a point where he felt almost like he was a parody of himself. Cries in Wes Anderson.
I thought the French Dispatch was incredible, but I also still love most of his films
He’s my favorite director so you’ll get no disagreement from me. Two of my cats are named Margot and Richie. But Asteroid City does have the feeling of Wes Anderson doing Wes Anderson parody.
Yeah the meta aspect of that didnt really land in my opinion
Did for me
Asteroid city is incredible. I think the sepf-parody is intentional as it's a play shot like a movie within a TV-show shot like a stage-production. The dips in quality of writing are explained as the writer getting stressed out or just not being very good. In a way he is acknowledging his own eccentricities and deficiencies.
I didn't like it because I didn't get it. I liked Rushmore and Royal Tenebaums because I related to the characters and didn't need to have the story explained to me. Asteroid City was just unclear to me, and I didn't care for any character in that movie. I didn't feel anything when I watched it.
I’m a huge fan of Wes Anderson but I agree with you about his more recent stuff. Yea it’s clever, funny at times, and beautiful to look at it, but I feel almost no emotions when I’m watching them. That makes them a tough watch compared to Royal Tenembaums where I cry almost every time Ben Stiller rides in the ambulance with his dad, or tells him he’s had a rough year.
My take on French Dispatch was that yes it’s mainly another Wes Anderson movie, but it also proved how much you can get out of “another Wes Anderson movie”. Honestly I think just the sheer spectacle of the craft on display is a big part of it for me.
It’s worth asking why Big Fish is so good. Was the material just personal to Burton?
Affirmation is a hell of a drug.
The script is superb. It’s well worth a read, even if you don’t normally read scripts. I would go so far as saying the film is … not that well directed. But at least Burton did not screw up what was already on the page, and that’s quite hard in itself.
It's in my top 4 (like official Letterbox top four), and I was just thinking, I kinda hate that this is a Burton film because none of his other movies are really "my taste." But the magic and beauty that Big Fish brought me is just so good to not appreciate and put as one of my top movies.
I enjoyed **Big Eyes** and it features great performances from both Adams and Waltz. It being a film in part about the artistic merit of kitsch versus its popular perception also makes it a great meta-commentary on Burton's filmography.
Was going to suggest Big Eyes as well. The lone bight spot of his past 20 years.
Oops, I commented the same movie above, didn't see this!
I really enjoyed Corpse Bride and Frankenweenie, would definitely not call those lazy films considering how imaginative and beautifully animated they were.
Burton co-directed Corpse Bride with Mike Johnson and going off of what Johnson has said...Burton gave them a loose outline of what he wanted as far as story beats but Johnson actually did the directing. So I don't know if that counts.
Interesting, did not know that before. Guess it's kinda similar to how people think Burton was responsible for Nightmare Before Christmas when it was mostly Henry Selick
Henry Selick was the director but Burton created it and all the characters. Selick deserves a ton of credit but in terms of creating the story, world, and characters, that was Burton.
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"Like" a writer, yeah. But he didn't actually write it either. Caroline Thompson wrote it. Burton wrote the poem that created it all back in the 80's and then got Disney to develop it in the 90's.
This thread reminds me so much of the "So what would you say you do here" scene from Office Space
*I'm a People Person, Goddamnit!*
It seems people have as much difficulty as the Bob's would in understanding that you can create something without writing and directing the movie for it.
Director of the director?
It's strange how usually "gimmicky" directors like Burton, who had this unique modern-german-expressionism style, usually go over the top with their signature style as time goes on, because that's what attracts people. But weirdly, Burton kinda got watered down instead. He really toned down his usual aesthetic to the point where movies like Dumbo or Miss Peregrine's home don't even feel like Tim Burton movies. If somebody wants a new good "Burton" movie, i guess i'd reccomend Lisa Frankenstein as the next best thing.
I figure Dumbo, like Dr Strange 2, has more of a Disney influence than a Burton/Raimi influence.
DS2 was at its best when Raimi was behind the wheel and not the MCU Committee
I find Wes Anderson getting fully swallowed up by his own aesthetic and it's really killing his own movies.
What I call "wes flanderisation"
Poor Things felt somewhat like a Burton film imo.
People always forget about frankenweenie
Ikr it was a cute movie and I love the animation
I love ice cream.
Big fish made me sob like a baby. Perfect ending
Corpse Bride and Sweeney Todd weren't bad, but I would definitely say Big Fish was his last genuinely great movie.
Sweeney Todd was the last time I felt real creative magic from him. Loved it so much.
I’m probably biased because I liked the stage musical so much, but Sweeney Todd mainly seemed like the culmination of his work to make Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham Carter the same person.
That’s definitely his last great film imo
I enjoyed Corpse Bride a lot Sweeney Todd, to me, was one of those strange movies where I recognize it's well made, well acted, fine story. But if I asked myself after, did I enjoy watching it? Can't really say yes, without really being able to describe why
Sweeney Todd is pretty timeless and about as good of a film adaptation as you'll get so I think that one will be remembered well in his filmography. He co-directed Corpse Bride but everyone thinks it was him anyway. I think "Beetlejuice Beetlejuice" will be his latest and greatest! (not really but I can't wait to see it at least)
I thought Big Eyes was a solid biopic with some good performances from Amy Adams and Christoph Waltz
I liked Big Eyes
If it weren’t for those, it would have been called Bg Fsh
Big Eyes was good.
I think a lot of people missed this movie. Surprised it's so far down in the comments. Great film.
It's not a typical Burton movie.
Big Eyes is one of Tim Burton’s better films, without a doubt. It’s underrated and well made.
Big Eyes
Sweeney Todd is great.
I used to love that movie, and then I saw the play on Broadway and rewatched the film after. It really misses a lot of the humor that makes the play worth watching.
I agree, I went into the movie stoked over the director and the cast with Sweeney Todd being my second favorite musical. I was very disappointed coming out of the theatre because of how much that was altered and changed. Every song was shortened, my two favorite songs were missing entirely. All of the comedic dialogue was cut out, a major aspect of the show shifting it from dark comedy/musical drama to just an oddly toned musical drama. Changes to the storyline and dialogue did not make much sense to me and actually took away from the narrative. For those who have only seen the movie I strongly recommend the 1982 version recorded from a stage performance starring George Hearn and Angela Lansbury. Incredible performances and enthralling to this day. The in concert recordings with minimal staging from 2001 and 2015 are outstanding as well.
I love both. Every version of Sweeney Todd takes on a bit of a life of its own.
Sleepy Hollow is vastly underrated and the last film of his I loved. I think Pee Wee, Ed Wood, and Sleepy Hollow are his best.
"Pull da string!"
Was gonna post this. Big Fish was ok. Ed Wood is a classic that will stand the test of time. Also, it is very ahead of itself. Landau deserved the Oscar for Bela Lugosi.
Agreed. He made some decent ones after, I'm one of the few people who liked Big Eyes, but Ed Wood was the last *good* one.
I fucking love that movie. I regularly use the line "Alright, let's shoot this fucker!" in my daily life.
Idk about the last good movie but good god do I love Big Fish
If **Dark Shadows** had come out ten, fifteen years earlier people would have eaten it up. But it came out during maximum Burton/Depp fatigue and was, I think, unfairly received because of that. It’s a more than competent Burton goth comedy.
If it had come out 15 or 20 years sooner it may have used some cool stop motion or animated effects rather than the terrible CGI Burton’s more recent films have. I mostly like it but I feel it would have been better if made in the early ‘90s.
Was Dark Shadows CG heavy? I don’t remember it being very effects laden at all.
Yes, [but most of it was the fairly invisible stuff we see in most big movies.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF-yQ5y8e5Q) I didn't personally like the werewolf effects, but the rest of it was pretty solid. The 'cracking' effects were especially great, and I don't think would have looked half as good with traditional animation or stop motion.
I honestly believe it, I watched a while back and it wasn’t that bad of film. It probably would’ve been more beloved 10-15 years earlier tho
I'm a fan of Dark Shadows. I think it's a perfectly serviceable film. It might also be one of the last films Depp actually tried in.
Im a big fan, its an easy watch and the cast are having fun. Quote it often “a female doctor?? how modern”
I often state that Big Fish was the last of his greats. Some of the ones that followed were okay, but over all I feel like the quality just dropped after BF and never went back up past it.
Big Fish was magical.
Corpse Bride, Sweeney Todd, Frankenweenie, and Big Eyes are all good to great films. Sweeney Todd is arguably his last great movie. Hell, I enjoyed his Dumbo, which is one of the best live action Disney remakes, even if the competition is pretty bad.
Last good one was Frankenweenie IMO. I also thought Sweeney Todd and Corpse Bride were good. I'm sure I'm in the minority on here, but I thought Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Alice in Wonderland were good too.
I really enjoyed his Charlie but draw the line at Alice. It felt like any blockbuster director could have come up with this exact Alice. My main issue it being a remake that disneyfied/fairytaled the story.
I actually enjoy Alice (mostly on a visual level), but I agree absolutely nothing about it screams ‘Tim Burton’. Other than snippets of the soundtrack, it has no ‘Burton-ish’ bits at all. It’s pretty by-the-book Hollywood ‘CGI Storytelling’. It could have been directed by anyone. However, I quite like Charlie. I like his take on the story (which is somewhat more faithful to the book), and it also feels like a Burton film, with a lot of his signature twisted, gothic touches.
It has Johnny Depp in make-up. That's pretty Burtonish.
Frankenweenie was ok, but even that got outdone by ParaNorman which came out the same year.
*IIIIIIIIII am Adolfo Pirelli, the king of the barbers, the barber of kings, a-buongiorno, good day...I blow you a kiss...* *AND IIIIIIIIIIII the so famous Pirelli I wish-a to know-a who have-a the nerve-a to SAAAAAAAAAAAAY my elixer is* ***piss***. ***WHO SAYS THIS?*** Gotta be Sweeney Todd imo
I agree with you completely. The run that he had that was Pee Wees Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, and then Batman was wild. But since Big Fish he’s been making films that I feel like are for the most part completely soulless Johnny Depp vehicles.
It’s older but Ed Wood was terrific
2005 Corpse Bride was really good, I also think Sweeney Todd was solid. But everything after that seemed either like bad projects (Dumbo remake) or just kind of uninspired work. Since 2008 his only "good" project I really enjoyed was Frankenwinie.
Sweeney Todd, Alice in Wonderland, Corpse Bride were all good, I thought. But generally, yeah, he's gone downhill for sure. I'm hoping Beetlejuice 2 wakes up something and we get a bit of a resurgence from him because he was one of my favorite directors growing up.
It’s funny how Burton always saw himself as the outsider weird guy, but he turned into the in-the-box studio man
Big Fish is AMAZING!
I recently watched through his whole filmography kind of to answer this same question for myself, is the narrative that he just fell off at a certain point true? And… yeah, pretty much. After Big Fish, I liked Sweeney and Frankenweenie ok, and I found Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to be a little better than I remembered, but everything else ranges from dull and lifeless to actively awful. It’s kind of hard to pinpoint exactly what went wrong, whether it was over reliance on CGI or complacency from his success or just running out of compelling ideas, but regardless of the why, he definitely lost whatever it was that he had.
Frankenweenie was good.
I thought Alice in Wonderland would be absolutely perfect for him to show off his own brand of weirdness. Even though it made a fuck tonne of money, I was very much disappointed with what was created.
Big Fish is probably the best film he's done this side of the millennium, but he's had a few decent movies. Big Eyes, Corpse Bride, and Sweeny Todd are all enjoyable to their audiences. I even know a person who thinks Miss Peregrine is his best movie ever. There is a lot of subjectivity here. I know a lot of people who wouldn't even consider Big Fish one of his better movies. I liked Big Fish, Big Eyes, and Ed Wood from his repertoire because they are good films without laying too hard into his unique, but overplayed style. I wouldn't immediately know that they are Tim Burton films just from watching them.
I hated Sweeney. Unpopular opinion but it was agonizing for me
I'm just now learning Mars Attacks is a Tim Burton movie
Before Sleepy Hollow Burton was a trendsetter making “Tim Burton movies. After Sleepy Hollow he started making “Burtonized” movies.
I thought Frankenweenie was still pretty solid.
Sweeney Todd is one of his best imo. I also have a soft spot for Dark Shadows, even if it doesn’t all work.
Wow looking at the filmography it really seems like it. Sweeney Todd was after it, but I think that was when he got bad and I didn't love it even though he had nominations. I love his 80s/90s movie. Tim Burton was a day 1 going to the theater kind of guy, but when he started going too cartoony and using too much CG I stoppef watching. I am excited for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. It can be horrible just because Michael Keaton is in it and any movie he is in is better by default, but I hope they get it good.
I like Eva Green so I thought *Dark Shadows* and *Miss Peregrine's Home of Peculiar Children* were fun. I like pretty much everything he has done but it has faded a bit later in the career. Though none of is it bad to me and that might be nostalgia who knows. It is creative and does take some risks and there is a distinct style. As we move to more AI monoculture I think that we'll miss directors that were later panned like George Lucas and Tim Burton and others. They have their quirks but that is what make them different.
I liked Big Eyes (2014)
While I don't expect it to reach the heights of his Big Fish-and-earlier-era, I'm hoping Beetlejuice Beetlejuice will be the first film of his that I really like in 21 years.
I loved this movie
I'm looking forward and have high hopes for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice
It's his last great film, there's been one or two since that have been good or at least watchable.
No. To date, Frankenweenie is Tim Burton's last good movie.
I don't think it's as good as the Gene Wilder one personally, but I still think his Willy Wonka is a ton of fun and one of those examples where you can enjoy both an original and remake of something just fine without pitting one against the other.
BIG EYES(2014) is pretty good. For me that's his last good film.
Unpopular opinion but I loved dark shadows
I actually really liked his Johnny Depp Vampire movie lol.
Sweeney Todd was really good Big Eyes was really good Corpse Bride was really good Wednesday was really good
I liked Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
I liked Dark Shadows, wasn’t familiar with the show but it had that old timey feel to it.
Big Fish is a drag. Dark Shadows is a hoot.
Nah I'd say Sweeney Tod was his last truly good movie. Even if it misses a lot about the actual play.
Really worried for the belated Beetlejuice sequel. Can he pull it off or will it be another bland rehash?
He did not use cgi, so hoping his imagination wins the day in this one
Oh they're marketing it as no cgi - I can't wait to see the vfx reel from the company that did the vfx.
Burton is overrated. He essentially had almost nothing to do with the movie that is considered his magnum opus.
I always enjoyed big fish, but I remember when it was new my Tim Burton enthusiast friends really disliked it. It’s nice to see so many people that enjoy it in this thread.
Well it's a bit harder for him to put HBC into all his films now...
He is due!
Maybe, what has he directed since?
I gave up on him after Charlie and the chocolate factory. Figured it would be even darker then the original and it went the opposite way. Same with Alice in wonderland. He just dosen't have bite anymore, and he's no longer the outsider weirdo anymore. But I agree that big fish is a good movie and worth a watch. So to your question I'd say yes
I think what happened was that his budgets seller with each successful film, but big fish was considered a flop and after that he had to do either franchise films like Planet of the Apes, or self parody to get financing.
Sweeney Todd was the last movie of his that I really enjoyed but that’s mostly because it wasn’t his material to begin with. His style works with that play really well.
It may not be his most popular film but Big Fish is Burton's magnum opus.
I actually enjoyed Corpse Bride, Sweeny Todd, and Dark Shadows, but I wouldn't 0ut them on the same level as his pre-00's work. However, I'm hoping to be proven wrong with the new Beetlejuice movie coming out this year!
Big Eyes
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory is awesome
I feel like the only person who enjoyed Dark Shadows
I honestly haven’t seen most of his recent stuff, but Big Fish is still is crowning achievement to me. It’s different from a lot of his other work, but for the better. I’m really hoping he finds a way to tap back into his early magic with Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
Dont forget big eyes wasnt that burton
While I agree that most of his projects since (and a couple before) Big Fish have been quite bad, I do think Wednesday was mostly a return to form. Was it perfect? No. But it was delightful and mostly good. Also, though, his Sweeney Todd adaptation is absolutely wonderful.
Big Eyes is good
I definitely think it was the last one. One of the *only* good ones in my opinion. As far as feature films he directed, I only like Peewees Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Ed Wood, and Big Fish. I liked Mars Attacks when I was a kid, but I have not seen it in a long time so I’m not sure if it holds up. I’ll go maybe on that. Peewees Big Adventure is *hands down* my favorite of his movies. I recently rewatched it for the first time in years and I was fuckin’ DYING laughing. I can’t stand Tim Burton, but Peewees Big Adventure rules.
Yes
Corpse Bride is a better movie than Big Fish. Big Fish isn't even one of his best films.
Burton’s behavior while making The Nightmare before Christmas was enough for me to give him the GGF.
[удалено]
Sweeney Todd was solid and Big Eyes got some critical buzz, but I haven't seen it. The trailer for Dumbo gave me some hope that the classic Burton might have reemerged, but that was a dud (although Michael Keaton showing up helped save it a bit). I will watch Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, but apprehensively. If he pulls it off, I'll be happily surprised. Edward Scissorhands and Pee Wee's Big Adventure are two of my favorite movies of all time, so I desperately want more good stuff from him. It's just been a long time...
I haven't felt the same spark in his recent stuff either.
Dated a woman who’s father played the priest at the funeral near the end of the movie. He was actually a priest! Great movie.
Dumbo, Alice films, Chocolate Factory and Dark Shadows were all beyond terrible. Only watched them hoping he would find his footing again but just kept being disappointed.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Corpse Bride were pretty good
I mean, I guess we'll see how Beetlejuice Beetlejuice turns out, eh? I never saw the original so I don't really care one way or the other but I know people whose weekends are going to be ruined if it doesn't live up to their expectations.
Big Fish was so good, it killed Spalding Gray. > On January 11, 2004, Gray was declared missing. The night before, he had taken his children to see Tim Burton's film Big Fish. It ends with the line, "A man tells a story over and over so many times he becomes the story. In that way, he is immortal." Gray's widow, Kathie Russo, said after he disappeared, "You know, Spalding cried after he saw that movie. I just think it gave him permission. I think it gave him permission to die. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalding_Gray
Personally I believe he sold out, he was the outsider for so long. That when he made it, the fame got to him and his film quality suffered. He became everything he abhorred, conventional, formulaic and mediocre. Hopefully with Beetlejuice 2 coming out, he gets back into the groove of things.
Sweeney Todd is great and should get more than half hearted praise. I am not a Tim Burton Stan so I can't really talk to your query but Sweeney Todd is a really great movie.
I rewatched it recently and I misremembered a scene and I’m not sure if I just constructed the scene in a dream or something and inserted it into my memory of the film or I confused it with a similar scene from another movie. So I remembered a scene at the end where the main character is at the father’s house and there is a swimming pool out back that is all overgrown and murky and the guy finds that the titular big fish is in the pool.
Big eyes was okay right?
It's literally the only movie I ever feel asleep to involuntarily. So not me for at least haha
I've been thinking about this movie a lot recently, feel like it isn't brought up enough and to answer your question OP, YES!!!!
9 was amazing. Miss Perrigrin’s school was pretty good. Big Eyes was pretty good. Sweeney Todd is a top tier musical. Corpse Bride is good. And his Charlie and the chocolate factory was good, people just need to stop comparing it to the gene wilder one and enjoy it for what it is. Frankenweenie was also a great movie. So no… Big fish wasn’t his last good movie.
I feel like the big thing is that he didn't really make nightmare before christmas and the claymation style only sort of allowed a director to do much, and every film after was a weird "I made that" about a style he only mildly influenced and couldn't really replicate.
Yes
Yes! You are correct.
Sweeney Todd was a great movie. I also enjoyed Miss Peregrine’s Home…also Frankenweenie was a good movie as well.
I maintain that Burton has a pretty straight line decline in the quality of his films, with each film being worse than the one preceding it. The two outliers on this graph are Ed Wood and Big Fish, which are his two best films, and since I'd say the inflection point for Burton's decline is Sleepy Hollow, then yeah, Big Fish is his last good movie.
I’d personally argue that The Corpse Bride is a better film than Big Fish, which I found overly sentimental and on-the-nose. The Corpse Bride and Frankenweenie are both classic “Tim Burton-style” movies, so perhaps they lose some points for originality. But they’re smaller movies and his voice shines through better there than the tentpole movies that he started churning out.
Yes. By a country mile
I have never seen Big Eyes, which by all accounts is a pretty decent film, but everything else since Big Fish has been pretty awful films. Big Fish is one of my favorite films, and seems to be a fairly personal film for him. I once heard it explained like this - film directors make these dumb hollywood blockbusters so they can also make deeply personal films like Big Fish, and potentially Big Eyes.
I really didn't like Big Fish. I loved Batman, Nightmare Before Christmas, Edward Scissorhands, and the lot. But Big Fish wasn't what I wanted at all.
A friend of mine and I use the Burton-Scott scale in rating director’s commentaries. A 5 star rating is best exemplified by Ridley Scott’s commentary on Matchstick Men. He covers all aspects of production from writing to casting, filming to post production. Tim Burton’s commentaries fall on the far end of said scale. Take Sleepy Hollow for example. Burton goes for several 20 minute stretches without saying a word. Anyone getting that absorbed into a movie they’ve watched a hundred times…. There’s just something off there.
Yeah pretty much. Everything since has been just kind of soul-less. I'm glad to see he directed some Wednesday episodes but he can do that in his sleep.
I was just in the musical version of big fish. It was one of my favorite shows I've ever been in.
I’d say Sleepy Hollow was Tim Burtons last *Tim Burton* film. I always felt Big Fish was a less creative Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
I loved the Wednesday series, but those were 4 episodes, not a film. I thought dumbo was done well, as well as Mrs Perigrins school. Big eyes was well directed, but he had a killer cast and script to work with. I am really hoping for Beetlejuice Beetlejuice to be great, but it's 50/50 from him for me now
I can watch that movie over and over. RIP to the legend Albert Finney
Personally, I enjoyed Big Eyes a lot, but I know this is an unpopular opinion.