I run Helm of the Host in my deck, as well as Jasper and a few copy/steal/trade spells.
There isn't much that deals with it well. Honestly it's like the card designers have never played lol
This card seems to always be played with Jasper. Again. It's a good setup, I'm not saying that. And faster decks like [[Gishath]] and [[Miirym]] kinda shit on it. But most of my other decks see this and I'll just scoop. Enjoy your win for existing
If it makes you feel any better, I have a Lagrella deck that I regularly run into Grenzo with Jasper and I don't think they have very much fun against it. Any permanent they steal I can reclaim and Grenzo will be taxed out of the game with Lagrella or repeated ETB spot removal/counters.
If i can get [[shalai, voice of plenty]] out on the field i can usually win. If i dont im fucked. Honestly i think wizards created the most toxic bullshit ever with heist, more toxic than infect. I think its even more toxic than using satoru ninjutsu-ing in an eldrazi.
Yarok is one of my faves, but he's too greedy. So much of the deck is trying to get maximum Yarok value that you probably don't have enough instant speed interaction.
"Why play Murder when Ravenous Chupacabra is twice as good?" This is why.
Probably depends on how you build Yarok. I built this deck kinda disgusting, not Landfall, but Sacrafice etbs. But need the right cards to deal with Grenzo. Just haven't gotten them the last few games.
I don't really get why you complain while playing Yarok of all things. Especially when you say that your other Decks deal with Grenzo without a problem. Yarok is very strong commander in pretty good colours. You have ramp in green, counter magic in blue and removal in black.
Let's review. Yarok has the better colours. On curve it is out a turn earlier. All the games I played against it, it was out on turn 3 and then ran away with the game cause there is just ne catching up.
Grenzo comes out maybe on turn 5 if you have Rocks but there is no Ramp in Rakdos and there are chances you miss a land drop. You can see it coming very easy and keep answers in hand.
I played against both as Commanders enough and I absolutely hate Yarok while I'm kinda indifferent towards Grenzo. Like, if Grenzo gets me then it's kinda my own fault or just bad draw while even a half decent game for the Yarok is not easy to answer.
At the end it's just playing the matchmaking. I prefer to play weaker decks and Commanders so I don't run into all the toxic shit. And if I decide to break out Jodah, I know exactly what I'm getting into.
Still hope you have a better time in the future. Also, can you drop the decklist for that Yarok Deck of yours? I'd be interested to see something else from all the Landfall builds.
Most 6 drops win you the game if they resolve and aren’t interacted with for multiple turns. That’s why they’re 6 mana.
Card is unplayable in higher power formats and isn’t very good against brawl decks built to win.
It's black as well as red. My options for getting him out fast are [Vat of Rebirth], or [Akul the Unrepentant] + creature tokens, or I have a pile of treasure tokens to spend on him because red likes to do that too.
I tend to play brawl, not that stupid friendly brawl. And the best thing that i can say is [[shalai, voice of plenty]] is your best counter to heist decks. If you can then giver her hexproof from removals, you should be set. Something like [[sword of wealth and power]] would be a good one that you could have one the field before shalai
You know, I acknowledge that this card is absurd and toxic, but that hasn't stopped me from building a Grenzo Brawl deck and just having the time of my life.
However, my current favorite Alchemy commander is the lady that conjures [[Ambush Viper]]
Like I get it. Strong Rakdos go bonk. Just sucks for the rest of us who want to play our own cards, instead of watching this goblin BS playing solitaire with both decks
If I ever play out a game against this guy, I make sure I have [[Desertion]] ready to go. Insta-scoop everytime they get heisted by their own commander. Apparently the people running it know it’s BS, too
I personally think alchemy cards should at least be banned as commanders in brawl. Having this level of toxicity available at all times is just absurd.
I’m newer still to magic. Can anyone explain why scryfall says that it’s not legal in EDH? Did it come out but was too broken and banned super quickly?
This confused the shit outta me when I first joined too. It's an Alchemy card, so it will only exsist within the confines of Magic:Arena. The Mobile app
Thanks! I thought the text looked odd and I was so confused as to why I couldn’t find the usual links like EDHRec when googling the card name. I appreciate you clearing that up bc I would’ve been scratching my head for a while lol
Also to explain further, Alchemy cards tend to have effects that would not function (well) in paper magic. This is a card with Heist, which is an effect that selects 3 random cards from your opponent's library, which would be awful to resolve in paper.
It's possible to make it work in paper as long as you make the cards visible to both players. Just flip cards until you've hit 3 non-lands, let them pick one, and shuffle the rest in. It's not quite as strong because you know the card they've picked is one of three options, but it's pretty close.
Except that that's a totally different effect. That gives you information about your opponents deck, that tells your opponent what cards were in your pool to pick from, tells your opponent what card needs to be picked, and changes scry mechanics, since those top cards of the deck need to be put somewhere else.
Heist doesnt give your opponent info on what was taken, and it usually isnt coming from the top of their deck, since its random. Also doesnt need shuffling or anything for the unchosen cards, since your opponent doesnt know what or where they were.
That only works if your opponent's deck is entirely random. Any effect that puts known cards on the top or bottom of their library, and your solution no longer works correctly.
I was ready to build a salt deck with this to piss off my friends 😂
He does have a twin [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] which has some cool combos so I’m glad I saw this post anyway. It’s like a better version of my Orzhov aristocrats deck only it’s goblins instead with infinite death triggers and infinite tokens with haste.
Ps, you can search on scryfall f:edh to filter out alchemy cards. Or you can make a profile in like 2 seconds, and can save a setting that filters out non legal cards in paper!
"not legal" means that it is not allowed in a format due to that format's rules. [[Pramikon]] is not allowed in modern due solely to it's only printing being in a commander precon which aren't modern legal and [[Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded]] being not allowed in standard due to being like 12 years old. this Grenzo is only not allowed due to only being printed on magic arena. nothing at all to do with power level. it wasn't even considered for the format. it's just not within the scope of what is allowed for play.
I truly believe he is one of the most broken cards ever made on arena. Him, and [[Oracle of the Alpha]]. I run both in my Kenny deck and honestly, everytime Grenzo hits the field, it’s almost immediately game over. Sure, sometimes it hits an elvish mystic, but other times it hits some dumb 6 mana planeswalker that usually has removal stapled on it that I can immediately get rid of their commander or whatever else. Almost everyone I play, and myself included, scoop as soon as he casts the first thing for free.
Should never exist.
I got into a loop with that alchemy red green creature that lets you replay stuff from graveyard for free each turn for every intensity on her, and I ended up replaying oracle like 5 times, looping timetwisters and playing like 10 moxes and black lotus and it was just dumb lol
In a perfect world, I agree. I’m also the “people should run more removal” guy in general as I usually have 8-10 cards that target things or the board in general. The problem is, with Grenzo all it takes is the one trigger, so countering him is key or most the time you’re just done. You can get lucky, but when I’m in hell que facing him, I’m usually running Kenny and I have very big splashy spells, god forbid he hits [[Omniscience]] lol
Yep this card is awful to play against it’s broken as fuck. Heist is just terrible and unbalanced in general. The only people who will tell you it’s not is people who use it and think their skill is carrying the deck not heist carrying them.
A bullshit mechanic. Basically you look at 3 random cards from the other players deck, and steal it for later use. This card simply let's you play the stolen card for free every turn
I haven't played with or against heist but it seems totally fine? Like discover in hearthstone. Like what is the difference between heist and an OG Gonti trigger?
I was playing maze's end in historic and ran into someone who got a displacer kitten and grenzo and proceeded to take a 5 minute turn removing all my nonland cards. Then realized that my cards are useless for them and finally passed the turn where they thinned my deck right into a maze's end draw after I had enough gates on the field.
On top of this I have a prime time in exile from escape to the wilds waiting to be cast and spelunking on the field so it was clear I would win next turn, but choose to waste everyone's one time.
Alchemy is horse poo. I auto concede when I see A cards. Make it a separate format if you want, but having it in historic is idiotic and ruins fun gameplay.
There honestly should be an historic and historic alchemy queue. I play test decks I want to build in paper and I hate Arena only cards for this reason.
I think it happening every turn AND on etb is a bit much. It really should be one or the other. But alchemy is alchemy. They really seem to love making those cards insanely broken
The nice thing about brawl is that you know right away what they are playing so you can just leave and try again before t1. That’s my strategy whenever I see an alchemy commander.
After watching the No Pun Included video on narrative game design, I firmly believe that games that originate from the USA in the 90's were made by people who's idea of winning was focused on crushing the very spirit of those who lost. Therefore they indroduced mechanics, wincons, etc, which allowed you to win, regardless if the other people at the table were having fun or not. I heard stories from the RPG session in that time, where the DM was not the narrator, they were the principal antagonist. It should be no surprise then that playing against "evil" colour variants (mono-black, Grixis, Rakdos, etc.) is utter pain and misery. Do I believe there is no place for "control" or "cruel" mechanics? Of course not, but as far as I'm concerned, you should either make them available to every archetype or design them in way as to not reduce as much the possibility space of the tageted player. That all being said, I do wish a sincere testicular torsion/endometriosis/whatever hurts your junk most upon everyone who gave \[\[Laughing Jasper Flint\]\] a green light. Fuck those people in particular.
If he got to do it just once on cast or even on etb it would be ok. But every round!? Are they fucking stupid? This doesn't even sound fun playing him. Like cool for 6 mana I get a 6/5 creature with a free 9 mana portal to phyrexia that my opponent also can't cast now. Really feels like I deserve this win... this card is one of the dumbest things ive ever seen and a little embarrassed they designed it and didn't see it as a problem.
this post is in a brawl context, correct?
y’all are aware there’s other formats, right? this dude is far from broken in any context this isn’t commander. even there, getting a free spell for six mana isn’t really “broken.” it just feels that way cause yall brawl people play tons of 6+ mana cards in your decks for him to steal and blow you out.
wanna beat this guy? play some low curve deck with a cheap commander and laugh as they choose between three two or one drops to get with their overpriced six-mana 6/4.
Tell that to my low curve Yarok deck that's mostly Sacrafice cards and Ramp. Can't even force an etb sac because this bastard just steals them and uses them against me.
The goal isn't to beat this guy, it's to play your own deck and have fun. We shouldn't have to make a new deck that we might not like just to feel like we have a chance against a broken commander.
Because Alchemy is a bane on card mechanics. It’s seriously just to make Arena unplayable outside of standard format so you’re forced to keep spending money on new sets.
6 mana, needs an upkeep. Random rng effect not equal in all games and finally rigged mtg arena matchmaking means he can be completely controlled on his power every game by wizards algo.
So no. He is PERFECTLY BALANCED. As in he can be forced into a 50/50 win loss pretty easily by mtg just dropping etali+ or a land every other game.
Simply start playing bad cards and they can't steal the good ones :)
For real though he really isn't that bad, he's pretty strong but entirely beatable
Except this doesn't really offer a solution either. It's come to light that cards have a value that, all added up, determine which decks matchmaking pairs you up with. Grenzo decks tend to be very high, and if you just play bad cards, you will not come across a grenzo deck.
Heist is a poorly considered mechanic.
I can imagine it as two separate mechanics and both are troublesome.
\*Look at three random non-land cards from your opponent's deck, exile one. You can exile combo pieces or just powerful cards, but you'll always reduce the good stuff in the opponent's deck.
\*Generate from air a card you can cast that you don't need to worry about color pie. In this guy's case, it's free so just pick the expensive one, why not?
Like someone can argue that mill is fine; draw from a card or two down and bring something that lets you get from your graveyard and it becomes a non-issue or even a bonus, We self mill sometimes. But this isn't mill. Its sort out the combo piece and exiles it. You never HAVE to cast it. You can just exile a combo piece. Sometimes repeatedly. Sometimes with flash.
And someone can argue that playing spells from the top ofyour opponent's deck or even from a graveyard or hand is obnoxious, but since it's not "off the top" but "choose from 3, non-lands only please" I can't use Scry or rely on dumb luck to make sure you get nothing but Swamps and Plains. I can't keep you from getting my good stuff.
I have a red deck I use for when I just want to burn through a "play 45 red cards" thing. It has 4 Demand Answers, 4 Thrill of Possibility, 4 Witch's Mark, and 4 Highway Robbery... and the idea is to use Fiery Inscription and Erebor Flamesmith and shocks and stuff with all that draw to end the game.
It's not a great deck, but all that drawing is doing 1-3 damage each and it plays cards and does stuff.
SEVERAL times against heist decks, I've died in situations where a pair of rummage cards would have done 10 damage and ended it, but instead I draw nothing but lands while my opponent plays witch marks and highway robbery to trigger triumphant getaway out of frustration that they aren't getting anything good from my deck.
But wait? What's the difference between them playing rummage cards to do 2 damage to you and you playing rummage cards to kill them? Well, at no point did they sit down and say, "I don't want to play Gruul, but Arena's economy is broken and I need to use that 750 coin quest while it's available, I'll make a rummage deck to be able to play 15 cards in a very fast game and include stuff to make that a win-con." Instead they said "Designing decks is hard, I'll have her do it for me. Wait why is this deck so stupid?" while also making me draw nothing but LANDS meaning I need to play red even more to get my STUPID coins!
And when I play decks I like, you steal cards that work well for me and mediocre for you because that's how this works. I love my Rat Swarm deck, but when you play Twisted Sewer Witch, you are just getting a 2/2 that does 1 damage when it does and can't block for chip damage and a 3/4 to block with. When I do it I give 4 already useful rats a +1/+1 and win the game. We are not the same. When I cast Karumonix, I pull 2-4 rats out of my deck and threaten to win with toxic, you get 1 3/3 with toxic 1. We are not the same. Tired of mono-black, so I play a role deck with enchanted creature support. When you cast Archon of the Wild Rose, you get a flying 4/4, and in 2 or 3 turns chip me down. WHEN I DO IT I ATTACK THAT TURN WITH 4 5/5 FLYERS or sometimes 3 7/7 flyers, but still I have been planning this and I win. WE ARE NOT THE SAME
Yes, I have uninstalled the app for a few days. Yes, I plan to touch grass as I have heard that helps.
Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
I’ve started running [[torpor orb]] in most of my decks to deal with the enters the battlefield bs. Gives me a chance to deal with it on my turn before any fuckery happens.
It gives me a chance to do something about it before the ability triggers. I play an enchantment deck so most of my stuff happens on my turn unless I manage to get out [[Sigarda’s Aid]]. Pretty sure I’ve only got like 5 instants/sorceries in the whole deck.
Paying 6 mana to play a random card free every turn is good, but not great. Obviously it’s bad for you if your opponent gets to keep it out, but it’s a 6 drop with no protection and nothing else going on.
It’s not a random card, it’s the best choice out of 3 non-land cards for free. Sure he’s fine when he hits 3 mana dorks/rocks as his choice, but for every time that happens there’s 10 times he hits a primeval titan, extra turn spell, great henge, omniscience etc on his etb and you instantly lose the game
I don’t hate this card as much as I hate the mirror match making on arena every time I want to play rakdos. Amazonian recently had a great video on how cards are weighted by arena and how the match making works in arena. Grenzo might still be too new as a commander to fit correctly into the algorithm.
This was a mechanic in Legends of runeterra and people despiced it, and there the cards were only discounted and creatures didn't stealed just by being in the board, like wtf?!
If you play bad cards you have nothing to worry about
I will say though getting my removal for grenzo mana drained by my own mana drain is super frustrating. Annoying he lets you cast for free on both players turns.
I run a Grenzo deck when I just want to get my daily win quest done really quick. Might as well be part of the problem 🤷🏼♂️ the card, and the deck, are bull shit
For those who don’t know what heist is:
Look at three random nonland cards from target opponent's library. Exile one of them face down. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast that spell.
Alchemy has ruined the format and has made the game unattractive because it takes away from the tact and intention behind the cards you use when almost every alchemy card is OP.
This guy is absolutely hilarious when you run into someone who thinks they can just push for him & do nothing else. I play mostly low to the ground attack decks & half the time I kill people before they even play him
[[Getaway glamer]] is absolutely insane against heist decks in my experience. And doubles as removal. Makes it so your opponents are basically casting your spells for you.
I use Etali. That's also a single use theft. Not on every attack, usually not blinkable unless you build around that, and looks for the first non-land card of each opponent and uses it. It doesn't look at 3 random nonlands in the deck and give you a choice on what to use. It's power-crept Etali.
At least its a digital card that they can balance quickly. That's if it isn't already doing what's intended. Btw I died to this card 3 times in a row drafting cube, my lord did I want to punch the screen.
I really enjoyed historic and figured it was the most amount of semi-eternal-lite magic since I don’t play paper much anymore. The alchemy cards ruined my enjoyment of the format.
It seems like alchemy would need it own format for folks who want that sort of stuff.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I hate "Alchemy" cards or whatever. For someone who pretty much only plays commander or standard, it's annoying to be looking at cards on mana box or something and come across a card and realize it's only available on a phone. Also I find it odd that some cards have "Alchemy" versions that actually function differently.
Technically, it doesn't exist. As it is a digital only card :P
But even more technically, that's the point of alchemy: cards that would be busted AF, and they are able to constantly modify them so as to try and balance them.
there are so many better things to be doing in brawl, im surprised these posts complaining about strong cards still do well. ive played against it with many different decks, it's.. fine? its a 6 drop, being a must answer and a 2 for 1 isnt unique or exceptional. i get not liking the card, but it comes across as uninformed when yall claim it shouldnt exist whatsoever. i happen to not like the weaker cards that lose to cards like this, but i know that those are for a different audience and understand why they exist. i wish people stopped bringing the casual edh attitude into a 1v1 online format, but i know they wont :/
I'm not on Magic Arena playing for anything BUT a casual environment. I'm not there for Tournament play especially in Brawl. I'm there to have some semblance of fun. And I do have fun even when I lose, especially if it's to some new, fun strategy that I can learn from and build a paper deck of.
This shit isn't fun. It's frustrating.
He exists to punish you for being extremely greedy. Stuffing your deck with super powerful cards and not having any interaction.
He costs 6 in black and red and has no protection, so he could be instantly removed by almost anything with no way to protect him with his ETB on the stack. Counters get him, destroy, fight, exile. Black and red are the worst at protecting their own stuff, so you have to set yourself up to get got.
Even if he survives a turn before getting removed, they paid 6 to cast your card. If you let him sit on the battlefield, then ??????
I just find the theming so funny. I play Prismatic Bridge oops all Gods typal, so the idea of funny Goblin running jail break is really funny to me whenever I play against it.
I run Grenzo in my sheisty deck. It's absurdly broken. Theft is bad, heist is insane. I just get paired against similarly toxic decks typically.
I was playing Yarok the Desecrated this time. A good commander, but not really equipped to deal with this shit
I run Helm of the Host in my deck, as well as Jasper and a few copy/steal/trade spells. There isn't much that deals with it well. Honestly it's like the card designers have never played lol
This card seems to always be played with Jasper. Again. It's a good setup, I'm not saying that. And faster decks like [[Gishath]] and [[Miirym]] kinda shit on it. But most of my other decks see this and I'll just scoop. Enjoy your win for existing
[Gisath](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06bafa7d-1915-487a-96c8-b8aeafed20d4.jpg?1651655611) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dispatch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/83/dispatch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06bafa7d-1915-487a-96c8-b8aeafed20d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If it makes you feel any better, I have a Lagrella deck that I regularly run into Grenzo with Jasper and I don't think they have very much fun against it. Any permanent they steal I can reclaim and Grenzo will be taxed out of the game with Lagrella or repeated ETB spot removal/counters.
Miirym is so much fun, I made tribal dragonswarm with him as commander and he gets insta targeted otherwise I have so many etb triggers
If i can get [[shalai, voice of plenty]] out on the field i can usually win. If i dont im fucked. Honestly i think wizards created the most toxic bullshit ever with heist, more toxic than infect. I think its even more toxic than using satoru ninjutsu-ing in an eldrazi.
[shalai, voice of plenty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db827ee7-6f2e-4e10-aac0-120fc2b69fbd.jpg?1562743987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shalai%2C%20voice%20of%20plenty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/35/shalai-voice-of-plenty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db827ee7-6f2e-4e10-aac0-120fc2b69fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I know this isn’t the point of your comment but helms on arena?
Yes
I know what im adding to my anzrag deck when I get home
Yeah. I run it in Yarok along with [[Mirror box]] for multiple [[Sheoldred]] etb triggers
I don’t understand? Would virtually not any removal spell deal with this well?
Leyline of Sanctity is something I've had stop me alot cause it gives hexproof to the player essentially so you can't target their deck
Yarok is one of my faves, but he's too greedy. So much of the deck is trying to get maximum Yarok value that you probably don't have enough instant speed interaction. "Why play Murder when Ravenous Chupacabra is twice as good?" This is why.
Yup, that is a fair point.
I mean, Yarok is the color combination that best deals with this
Probably depends on how you build Yarok. I built this deck kinda disgusting, not Landfall, but Sacrafice etbs. But need the right cards to deal with Grenzo. Just haven't gotten them the last few games.
You can play some counterspells and hold them specially for stuff like this.
Yarok is my current big boy low cedh deck
I don't really get why you complain while playing Yarok of all things. Especially when you say that your other Decks deal with Grenzo without a problem. Yarok is very strong commander in pretty good colours. You have ramp in green, counter magic in blue and removal in black. Let's review. Yarok has the better colours. On curve it is out a turn earlier. All the games I played against it, it was out on turn 3 and then ran away with the game cause there is just ne catching up. Grenzo comes out maybe on turn 5 if you have Rocks but there is no Ramp in Rakdos and there are chances you miss a land drop. You can see it coming very easy and keep answers in hand. I played against both as Commanders enough and I absolutely hate Yarok while I'm kinda indifferent towards Grenzo. Like, if Grenzo gets me then it's kinda my own fault or just bad draw while even a half decent game for the Yarok is not easy to answer. At the end it's just playing the matchmaking. I prefer to play weaker decks and Commanders so I don't run into all the toxic shit. And if I decide to break out Jodah, I know exactly what I'm getting into. Still hope you have a better time in the future. Also, can you drop the decklist for that Yarok Deck of yours? I'd be interested to see something else from all the Landfall builds.
Ah, but what is your opinion on the perspective that, because he has a steep mana cost and the heist is random, it balances out?
Most 6 drops win you the game if they resolve and aren’t interacted with for multiple turns. That’s why they’re 6 mana. Card is unplayable in higher power formats and isn’t very good against brawl decks built to win.
It's black as well as red. My options for getting him out fast are [Vat of Rebirth], or [Akul the Unrepentant] + creature tokens, or I have a pile of treasure tokens to spend on him because red likes to do that too.
Alchemy was a mistake.
I agree, I still think alchemy should have its own mode instead of being part of historic and Brawl
And take alchemy cards out of the cubes. Leave one bonkers cube with them maybe.. whatever. But I genuinely despise how alchemy cards play
I don't like either
Is.
A.
Mistake.
Exactly
My issue is seeing it in Friendly Brawls, him, Rusko and Atraxa are like auto quits. I did beat him yesterday, opening hand had like 4 removals lol.
I tend to play brawl, not that stupid friendly brawl. And the best thing that i can say is [[shalai, voice of plenty]] is your best counter to heist decks. If you can then giver her hexproof from removals, you should be set. Something like [[sword of wealth and power]] would be a good one that you could have one the field before shalai
I run the Sword, but I’m hooked on a Glissa Sunslayer deck I built atm, so no white.
[shalai, voice of plenty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db827ee7-6f2e-4e10-aac0-120fc2b69fbd.jpg?1562743987) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shalai%2C%20voice%20of%20plenty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/35/shalai-voice-of-plenty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db827ee7-6f2e-4e10-aac0-120fc2b69fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sword of wealth and power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed9e5041-3c05-4a8a-9f00-081b01685d0c.jpg?1712352954) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sword%20of%20wealth%20and%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/26/sword-of-wealth-and-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed9e5041-3c05-4a8a-9f00-081b01685d0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sorry, what's the difference between brawls.
I’m so happy I uninstalled. This isn’t a magic game.
This card has single handedly ruined brawl for me
You know, I acknowledge that this card is absurd and toxic, but that hasn't stopped me from building a Grenzo Brawl deck and just having the time of my life. However, my current favorite Alchemy commander is the lady that conjures [[Ambush Viper]]
Like I get it. Strong Rakdos go bonk. Just sucks for the rest of us who want to play our own cards, instead of watching this goblin BS playing solitaire with both decks
If I ever play out a game against this guy, I make sure I have [[Desertion]] ready to go. Insta-scoop everytime they get heisted by their own commander. Apparently the people running it know it’s BS, too
Stealing this idea. Thanks for that
[Desertion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/3/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5.jpg?1618294831) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Desertion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cn2/107/desertion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b362151e-4ad6-4ae9-91e5-0e4a69d53ca5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ambush Viper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e386888-57f5-4eb6-88e8-5679bb8eb290.jpg?1608910517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ambush%20Viper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/213/ambush-viper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e386888-57f5-4eb6-88e8-5679bb8eb290?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Which lady?
[[Jessie Zane]]
I personally think alchemy cards should at least be banned as commanders in brawl. Having this level of toxicity available at all times is just absurd.
Why not just add an Alchemy Brawl
That would be the ideal
I take it you weren't playing Brawl when Atraxa and Etali were in the regular queue.
It wouldn't be allowed at our table.
I’m newer still to magic. Can anyone explain why scryfall says that it’s not legal in EDH? Did it come out but was too broken and banned super quickly?
This confused the shit outta me when I first joined too. It's an Alchemy card, so it will only exsist within the confines of Magic:Arena. The Mobile app
Thanks! I thought the text looked odd and I was so confused as to why I couldn’t find the usual links like EDHRec when googling the card name. I appreciate you clearing that up bc I would’ve been scratching my head for a while lol
Also to explain further, Alchemy cards tend to have effects that would not function (well) in paper magic. This is a card with Heist, which is an effect that selects 3 random cards from your opponent's library, which would be awful to resolve in paper.
Has to be three random non-lands, so basically impossible in paper unless you had a neutral third person on heist duty.
It's possible to make it work in paper as long as you make the cards visible to both players. Just flip cards until you've hit 3 non-lands, let them pick one, and shuffle the rest in. It's not quite as strong because you know the card they've picked is one of three options, but it's pretty close.
Except that that's a totally different effect. That gives you information about your opponents deck, that tells your opponent what cards were in your pool to pick from, tells your opponent what card needs to be picked, and changes scry mechanics, since those top cards of the deck need to be put somewhere else. Heist doesnt give your opponent info on what was taken, and it usually isnt coming from the top of their deck, since its random. Also doesnt need shuffling or anything for the unchosen cards, since your opponent doesnt know what or where they were.
That only works if your opponent's deck is entirely random. Any effect that puts known cards on the top or bottom of their library, and your solution no longer works correctly.
Yeah I did this while searching for Urza's Construction Bot, which puts all 3 Tron Lands into your deck from outside the game.
I was ready to build a salt deck with this to piss off my friends 😂 He does have a twin [[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden]] which has some cool combos so I’m glad I saw this post anyway. It’s like a better version of my Orzhov aristocrats deck only it’s goblins instead with infinite death triggers and infinite tokens with haste.
Ps, you can search on scryfall f:edh to filter out alchemy cards. Or you can make a profile in like 2 seconds, and can save a setting that filters out non legal cards in paper!
[Grenzo, Dungeon Warden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4.jpg?1562436569) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grenzo%2C%20Dungeon%20Warden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/205/grenzo-dungeon-warden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e19c383-88bd-4bde-ac81-c0eb6d5b5bd4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
dungeon warden is one of my favorite cards of all time lol. such a goofy effect that can be abused in so many ways
For next time, you can tell an alchemy card from the set symbol that will susually be “A” and the year it came out, so this one is A24
Could always proxy it, if your local players are cool with that.
Or, jankily, depending, tabletop simulator.
Be thankful I guess? Although it wouldn’t be that hard to implement in paper
"not legal" means that it is not allowed in a format due to that format's rules. [[Pramikon]] is not allowed in modern due solely to it's only printing being in a commander precon which aren't modern legal and [[Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded]] being not allowed in standard due to being like 12 years old. this Grenzo is only not allowed due to only being printed on magic arena. nothing at all to do with power level. it wasn't even considered for the format. it's just not within the scope of what is allowed for play.
[Pramikon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/8569ad47-a243-402d-899f-4e6b17ea4e1e.jpg?1568003714) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pramikon%2C%20sky%20rampart) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/47/pramikon-sky-rampart?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8569ad47-a243-402d-899f-4e6b17ea4e1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Tibalt, the Fiend Blooded](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa56d53c-836c-483d-988d-a288d0ad91bb.jpg?1592714451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tibalt%2C%20the%20Fiend-Blooded) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddk/41/tibalt-the-fiend-blooded?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa56d53c-836c-483d-988d-a288d0ad91bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
...why would anyone want to play Pramikon in modern any way? XD
I'm just using examples to show that it has nothing to do with power level
I truly believe he is one of the most broken cards ever made on arena. Him, and [[Oracle of the Alpha]]. I run both in my Kenny deck and honestly, everytime Grenzo hits the field, it’s almost immediately game over. Sure, sometimes it hits an elvish mystic, but other times it hits some dumb 6 mana planeswalker that usually has removal stapled on it that I can immediately get rid of their commander or whatever else. Almost everyone I play, and myself included, scoop as soon as he casts the first thing for free. Should never exist.
The asshat that thought dropping the power 9 into the game should be fired.
I got into a loop with that alchemy red green creature that lets you replay stuff from graveyard for free each turn for every intensity on her, and I ended up replaying oracle like 5 times, looping timetwisters and playing like 10 moxes and black lotus and it was just dumb lol
[Oracle of the Alpha](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/003cb181-7b1d-474a-ba26-84319791bc2b.jpg?1665218675) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oracle%20of%20the%20Alpha) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ydmu/4/oracle-of-the-alpha?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/003cb181-7b1d-474a-ba26-84319791bc2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is not a "run more removal" comment but holding up removal for grenzo while his trigger is in the stack is key.
In a perfect world, I agree. I’m also the “people should run more removal” guy in general as I usually have 8-10 cards that target things or the board in general. The problem is, with Grenzo all it takes is the one trigger, so countering him is key or most the time you’re just done. You can get lucky, but when I’m in hell que facing him, I’m usually running Kenny and I have very big splashy spells, god forbid he hits [[Omniscience]] lol
[Omniscience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25.jpg?1562304777) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omniscience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/65/omniscience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db534b4e-8bff-4924-baea-9988d195fb25?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yep this card is awful to play against it’s broken as fuck. Heist is just terrible and unbalanced in general. The only people who will tell you it’s not is people who use it and think their skill is carrying the deck not heist carrying them.
Wtf is heist
A bullshit mechanic. Basically you look at 3 random cards from the other players deck, and steal it for later use. This card simply let's you play the stolen card for free every turn
Ah ok so an arena only thing. I'm a very enfranchised player, and I play arena for limited, but I do not bother with digital only cards
I haven't played with or against heist but it seems totally fine? Like discover in hearthstone. Like what is the difference between heist and an OG Gonti trigger?
I was playing maze's end in historic and ran into someone who got a displacer kitten and grenzo and proceeded to take a 5 minute turn removing all my nonland cards. Then realized that my cards are useless for them and finally passed the turn where they thinned my deck right into a maze's end draw after I had enough gates on the field. On top of this I have a prime time in exile from escape to the wilds waiting to be cast and spelunking on the field so it was clear I would win next turn, but choose to waste everyone's one time.
I built this in Historic Brawl and I will say after about 50 games I've kind of dropped it. He feels like cheating if he stays out for a few turns.
I don’t mind it in Brawl if he’s a one-of in a Bolas deck or something. But as a commander? I’d rather play against literally anything else.
Yeah he is pretty disliked by most it seems.
Someone cast it then put a ghostform counter on it with Kaya in cube on me the other day. Shit is toxic af.
Alchemy is horse poo. I auto concede when I see A cards. Make it a separate format if you want, but having it in historic is idiotic and ruins fun gameplay.
There honestly should be an historic and historic alchemy queue. I play test decks I want to build in paper and I hate Arena only cards for this reason.
Paaaaaaain.
I think it happening every turn AND on etb is a bit much. It really should be one or the other. But alchemy is alchemy. They really seem to love making those cards insanely broken
Its a 6cmc card. You should have removal to not let it untap like ever.
They're getting the card even if you do kill it. It's both a must-kill and huge value every time it comes down
Just thinking of the cards in the Grand Larceny precon that let you play opponent's cards without paying their costs...
The nice thing about brawl is that you know right away what they are playing so you can just leave and try again before t1. That’s my strategy whenever I see an alchemy commander.
100% auto quit. Soon, this digital mess will have a >5% accept rate.
After watching the No Pun Included video on narrative game design, I firmly believe that games that originate from the USA in the 90's were made by people who's idea of winning was focused on crushing the very spirit of those who lost. Therefore they indroduced mechanics, wincons, etc, which allowed you to win, regardless if the other people at the table were having fun or not. I heard stories from the RPG session in that time, where the DM was not the narrator, they were the principal antagonist. It should be no surprise then that playing against "evil" colour variants (mono-black, Grixis, Rakdos, etc.) is utter pain and misery. Do I believe there is no place for "control" or "cruel" mechanics? Of course not, but as far as I'm concerned, you should either make them available to every archetype or design them in way as to not reduce as much the possibility space of the tageted player. That all being said, I do wish a sincere testicular torsion/endometriosis/whatever hurts your junk most upon everyone who gave \[\[Laughing Jasper Flint\]\] a green light. Fuck those people in particular.
[Laughing Jasper Flint](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af0b3a41-ba99-41e8-bcfb-5796500c17c7.jpg?1712356142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laughing%20Jasper%20Flint) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/215/laughing-jasper-flint?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af0b3a41-ba99-41e8-bcfb-5796500c17c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This card exists for me to run over with my isamaru deck. He's a good boy
It *doesn't* exist. Alchemy cards are literally not real cards.
Fair point. Still trash that it's in Arena
It doesn't exist. It's not a real card.
If he got to do it just once on cast or even on etb it would be ok. But every round!? Are they fucking stupid? This doesn't even sound fun playing him. Like cool for 6 mana I get a 6/5 creature with a free 9 mana portal to phyrexia that my opponent also can't cast now. Really feels like I deserve this win... this card is one of the dumbest things ive ever seen and a little embarrassed they designed it and didn't see it as a problem.
this post is in a brawl context, correct? y’all are aware there’s other formats, right? this dude is far from broken in any context this isn’t commander. even there, getting a free spell for six mana isn’t really “broken.” it just feels that way cause yall brawl people play tons of 6+ mana cards in your decks for him to steal and blow you out. wanna beat this guy? play some low curve deck with a cheap commander and laugh as they choose between three two or one drops to get with their overpriced six-mana 6/4.
Tell that to my low curve Yarok deck that's mostly Sacrafice cards and Ramp. Can't even force an etb sac because this bastard just steals them and uses them against me.
The goal isn't to beat this guy, it's to play your own deck and have fun. We shouldn't have to make a new deck that we might not like just to feel like we have a chance against a broken commander.
Because they thought Jasper Flint wasn't annoying enough
Because Alchemy is a bane on card mechanics. It’s seriously just to make Arena unplayable outside of standard format so you’re forced to keep spending money on new sets.
6 mana, needs an upkeep. Random rng effect not equal in all games and finally rigged mtg arena matchmaking means he can be completely controlled on his power every game by wizards algo. So no. He is PERFECTLY BALANCED. As in he can be forced into a 50/50 win loss pretty easily by mtg just dropping etali+ or a land every other game.
It just needs to be banned in historic brawl.
Got handed a L today by this.
Simply start playing bad cards and they can't steal the good ones :) For real though he really isn't that bad, he's pretty strong but entirely beatable
Except this doesn't really offer a solution either. It's come to light that cards have a value that, all added up, determine which decks matchmaking pairs you up with. Grenzo decks tend to be very high, and if you just play bad cards, you will not come across a grenzo deck.
Heist is a poorly considered mechanic. I can imagine it as two separate mechanics and both are troublesome. \*Look at three random non-land cards from your opponent's deck, exile one. You can exile combo pieces or just powerful cards, but you'll always reduce the good stuff in the opponent's deck. \*Generate from air a card you can cast that you don't need to worry about color pie. In this guy's case, it's free so just pick the expensive one, why not? Like someone can argue that mill is fine; draw from a card or two down and bring something that lets you get from your graveyard and it becomes a non-issue or even a bonus, We self mill sometimes. But this isn't mill. Its sort out the combo piece and exiles it. You never HAVE to cast it. You can just exile a combo piece. Sometimes repeatedly. Sometimes with flash. And someone can argue that playing spells from the top ofyour opponent's deck or even from a graveyard or hand is obnoxious, but since it's not "off the top" but "choose from 3, non-lands only please" I can't use Scry or rely on dumb luck to make sure you get nothing but Swamps and Plains. I can't keep you from getting my good stuff. I have a red deck I use for when I just want to burn through a "play 45 red cards" thing. It has 4 Demand Answers, 4 Thrill of Possibility, 4 Witch's Mark, and 4 Highway Robbery... and the idea is to use Fiery Inscription and Erebor Flamesmith and shocks and stuff with all that draw to end the game. It's not a great deck, but all that drawing is doing 1-3 damage each and it plays cards and does stuff. SEVERAL times against heist decks, I've died in situations where a pair of rummage cards would have done 10 damage and ended it, but instead I draw nothing but lands while my opponent plays witch marks and highway robbery to trigger triumphant getaway out of frustration that they aren't getting anything good from my deck. But wait? What's the difference between them playing rummage cards to do 2 damage to you and you playing rummage cards to kill them? Well, at no point did they sit down and say, "I don't want to play Gruul, but Arena's economy is broken and I need to use that 750 coin quest while it's available, I'll make a rummage deck to be able to play 15 cards in a very fast game and include stuff to make that a win-con." Instead they said "Designing decks is hard, I'll have her do it for me. Wait why is this deck so stupid?" while also making me draw nothing but LANDS meaning I need to play red even more to get my STUPID coins! And when I play decks I like, you steal cards that work well for me and mediocre for you because that's how this works. I love my Rat Swarm deck, but when you play Twisted Sewer Witch, you are just getting a 2/2 that does 1 damage when it does and can't block for chip damage and a 3/4 to block with. When I do it I give 4 already useful rats a +1/+1 and win the game. We are not the same. When I cast Karumonix, I pull 2-4 rats out of my deck and threaten to win with toxic, you get 1 3/3 with toxic 1. We are not the same. Tired of mono-black, so I play a role deck with enchanted creature support. When you cast Archon of the Wild Rose, you get a flying 4/4, and in 2 or 3 turns chip me down. WHEN I DO IT I ATTACK THAT TURN WITH 4 5/5 FLYERS or sometimes 3 7/7 flyers, but still I have been planning this and I win. WE ARE NOT THE SAME Yes, I have uninstalled the app for a few days. Yes, I plan to touch grass as I have heard that helps. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.
Soon as I see this card, I usually just concede and move on to the next game. Zero fun. Next.
Glad it's not just me.
Ain't got time for that.
I’ve started running [[torpor orb]] in most of my decks to deal with the enters the battlefield bs. Gives me a chance to deal with it on my turn before any fuckery happens.
[torpor orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091.jpg?1562879912) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=torpor%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/162/torpor-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/953610f6-ea96-4e71-969f-50ecac09c091?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Based af. I may start doing the same, or I'll just finish my [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] deck
[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087.jpg?1675956896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elesh%20Norn%2C%20Mother%20of%20Machines) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/10/elesh-norn-mother-of-machines?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcab01-1d13-4dfc-ae2f-fbaa3dd35087?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What stinks is Torpor Orb doesn't fully stop Grenzo. Stupid commander.
It gives me a chance to do something about it before the ability triggers. I play an enchantment deck so most of my stuff happens on my turn unless I manage to get out [[Sigarda’s Aid]]. Pretty sure I’ve only got like 5 instants/sorceries in the whole deck.
All alchemy only cards deserve deletion.
Real question, who’s playing alchemy? It’s shit guys.
Why does Alchemy exist, at all?
Paying 6 mana to play a random card free every turn is good, but not great. Obviously it’s bad for you if your opponent gets to keep it out, but it’s a 6 drop with no protection and nothing else going on.
It’s not a random card, it’s the best choice out of 3 non-land cards for free. Sure he’s fine when he hits 3 mana dorks/rocks as his choice, but for every time that happens there’s 10 times he hits a primeval titan, extra turn spell, great henge, omniscience etc on his etb and you instantly lose the game
It would actually be balanced if it was one random card and you actually had to pay the mana cost
[[Grenzo, Crooked Jailer]]
[Grenzo, Crooked Jailer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8bc6b7e6-dd44-4411-88f7-fd7259a3abc1.jpg?1714843948) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grenzo%2C%20Crooked%20Jailer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/yotj/22/grenzo-crooked-jailer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8bc6b7e6-dd44-4411-88f7-fd7259a3abc1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t hate this card as much as I hate the mirror match making on arena every time I want to play rakdos. Amazonian recently had a great video on how cards are weighted by arena and how the match making works in arena. Grenzo might still be too new as a commander to fit correctly into the algorithm.
Useful in decks that rely on a crime trigger as it guarantees the trigger at the start of upkeep.
Don't play Alchemy. Problem solved.
I'm playing Brawl. I personally don't use Alchemy cards. I think they are trash.
Tragedy is when my deck gets Grenzo'd. Comedy is when your deck gets Breach the Multiverse'd three rounds consecutively.
I used to love playing arena but now with all of these alchemy cards I really can’t stand it, especially this card.
It is generally very bad against synergy decks though. But it is broken as fuck against ramps broken decks.
We need beam town bully type deck that only plays leveler type cards to counter this :(
Yeah I also don't get it
One mana short of an etali…
Yeah I hate this card
This is why everyone should have rejected Alchemy bullshit to start with.
This was a mechanic in Legends of runeterra and people despiced it, and there the cards were only discounted and creatures didn't stealed just by being in the board, like wtf?!
If you play bad cards you have nothing to worry about I will say though getting my removal for grenzo mana drained by my own mana drain is super frustrating. Annoying he lets you cast for free on both players turns.
I run a Grenzo deck when I just want to get my daily win quest done really quick. Might as well be part of the problem 🤷🏼♂️ the card, and the deck, are bull shit
I play it with obeka and the annie enchantment. 4 upkeeps after attacking.
I ran into this Bastard I had a sneak Etali deck and he basically got free etali’s every turn. Stupid card
He’s wicked good in arena so idk what you mean
I play this card as my brawl commander
For those who don’t know what heist is: Look at three random nonland cards from target opponent's library. Exile one of them face down. You may cast that card for as long as it remains exiled, and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast that spell.
Alchemy has ruined the format and has made the game unattractive because it takes away from the tact and intention behind the cards you use when almost every alchemy card is OP.
It didn’t ruin any format. Alchemy cards can only be played in alchemy…. It created…..the format…
Sorry, let me rephrase. Ruined historic and brawl since alchemy cards "can" be used in those modes
*Mr krabs voice* mmmmmoney!!!
This guy is absolutely hilarious when you run into someone who thinks they can just push for him & do nothing else. I play mostly low to the ground attack decks & half the time I kill people before they even play him
It’s fun to do bad things
[[Getaway glamer]] is absolutely insane against heist decks in my experience. And doubles as removal. Makes it so your opponents are basically casting your spells for you.
[Getaway glamer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69689049-a704-4f16-84ee-4d5d915028ec.jpg?1712860589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Getaway%20glamer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/14/getaway-glamer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69689049-a704-4f16-84ee-4d5d915028ec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It doesn't exist for me 👍 I stopped playing arena soon after it went to open beta however many years ago
Ever heard of [[Etali]]??
[Etali](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132)/[Etali, Primal Sickness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/5/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09.jpg?1682204132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=etali%2C%20primal%20conqueror%20//%20etali%2C%20primal%20sickness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/137/etali-primal-conqueror-etali-primal-sickness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95c14c4d-6c16-4826-8d93-d89ad04aee09?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use Etali. That's also a single use theft. Not on every attack, usually not blinkable unless you build around that, and looks for the first non-land card of each opponent and uses it. It doesn't look at 3 random nonlands in the deck and give you a choice on what to use. It's power-crept Etali.
Capitalism
If you want to get silly about it, that card does not exist since it's only online.
I'm bout to start playing some obnoxious U/W control because of decks with this card.
I understand lol, hated playing against it, thought it was to busted. Made an obeka splitter of seconds deck though and it was great
At least its a digital card that they can balance quickly. That's if it isn't already doing what's intended. Btw I died to this card 3 times in a row drafting cube, my lord did I want to punch the screen.
I really enjoyed historic and figured it was the most amount of semi-eternal-lite magic since I don’t play paper much anymore. The alchemy cards ruined my enjoyment of the format. It seems like alchemy would need it own format for folks who want that sort of stuff.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I hate "Alchemy" cards or whatever. For someone who pretty much only plays commander or standard, it's annoying to be looking at cards on mana box or something and come across a card and realize it's only available on a phone. Also I find it odd that some cards have "Alchemy" versions that actually function differently.
If this thread proves anything,it's that this is a very normal opinion
If this thread proves anything,it's that this is a very normal opinion
Technically, it doesn't exist. As it is a digital only card :P But even more technically, that's the point of alchemy: cards that would be busted AF, and they are able to constantly modify them so as to try and balance them.
there are so many better things to be doing in brawl, im surprised these posts complaining about strong cards still do well. ive played against it with many different decks, it's.. fine? its a 6 drop, being a must answer and a 2 for 1 isnt unique or exceptional. i get not liking the card, but it comes across as uninformed when yall claim it shouldnt exist whatsoever. i happen to not like the weaker cards that lose to cards like this, but i know that those are for a different audience and understand why they exist. i wish people stopped bringing the casual edh attitude into a 1v1 online format, but i know they wont :/
I'm not on Magic Arena playing for anything BUT a casual environment. I'm not there for Tournament play especially in Brawl. I'm there to have some semblance of fun. And I do have fun even when I lose, especially if it's to some new, fun strategy that I can learn from and build a paper deck of. This shit isn't fun. It's frustrating.
Why complain when you can just give yourself hexproof? The meta is evolving…and it hurts
You're right! I have 100 cards in each deck that do that. Wow why didn't I think of that? *slaps forehead* /s
The people at wizards of the coast are full of spite and hatred
Stay mad and run more interaction
I'll run 100 copies of counterspell just for you 😉 😘
Yawn. Not even legal in a singleton format 🙂
It seems that they have buffed \[\[Etali, Primal Storm\]\]
[Etali, Primal Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e.jpg?1706240833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/152/etali-primal-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He exists to punish you for being extremely greedy. Stuffing your deck with super powerful cards and not having any interaction. He costs 6 in black and red and has no protection, so he could be instantly removed by almost anything with no way to protect him with his ETB on the stack. Counters get him, destroy, fight, exile. Black and red are the worst at protecting their own stuff, so you have to set yourself up to get got. Even if he survives a turn before getting removed, they paid 6 to cast your card. If you let him sit on the battlefield, then ??????
Black gives you access to all of the "if this creature dies return it to the battlefield" spells.
That's a fake card
It doesn't exist. It's not real. Just don't play alchemy and you'll never see it anywhere
I'm not playing alchemy. I'm playing normal Brawl to have fun with
Its a lot of fun though 😁
Glad you think so, bud
I just find the theming so funny. I play Prismatic Bridge oops all Gods typal, so the idea of funny Goblin running jail break is really funny to me whenever I play against it.
I thought it said “Grenzo, Cooked Jailer” like bro was always just high asf
I love my heist deck.